Painting w/ flake

[SoSideways]

Mods please move this thread to the correct forum if this isn't the right one, thanks!

I am going to paint my car with a friend of mine this summer, and was wondering how difficult, or not difficult, laying a layer of flake is?

Neither him nor I have painted a whole car before, but his dad has, so he can give us pointers on the base coat and clear coat.

I'm just curious as to how different, if at all, laying down a layer (or 2) of flake is?

If you haven't painted anything before, you probably shouldn't reply to this thread because then you're just giving me an opinion, not advice.

Thanks in advance!

[s13silvia123]

lets add on with pearls as well.

Painting with Pearls i'm in the process as you are at the moment.

[TheRonTom31]

In for this. I need to paint two body panels and a bumper on my SC diamond white pearl.

[BoostinGST]

im in the same boat, acquiring body parts right now. but from what i've read you mix the flakes/pearl in with your base coat. wherever you buy your paint from should be able to explain how to do it correctly

[HS13KLS]

oo..my buddy paints..but from what i hear.(from him) is when putting down flake sometimes its hard. because it will clogg the gun. and the hardest part (just like painting silver or gold) is it runs a lot.. so you have to be extremly consistent when you paint and keep your gun the same distance away at all time.

[HS13KLS]

i hope that helps

[MunsonAuto]

like stated above, clogging the gun is one of the biggest issues. So make sure you have a spray gun capable of easily spraying the flakes you are looking to shoot. Again same as above, keep it to light-medium coats at an even/same distance the whole time while moving steadily so as not to build up in one spot.
Hope the small info helps

[Bubba]

The flakes won't just lay down as you may have already figured. Keep the gun moving for sure, you may have to give it a little swirl or a shake every few seconds to keep the flake from trying to concentrate in one area of the spray cup.
Keep a lookout at the layout of the flakes as they are coming out and hitting the car, you will more than likely have to concentrate on some areas of the car to ensure the spacing and concentration of the flakes are consistent.
Goes the same for pearls also, I recommend the powder pearls over the liquid.
The larger the flakes the harder it is to get the layout right. Hope the info I posted helps a little bit.

Good luck with the project. Post pics when you get finished.

[98koukile]

Another thing to note is that you can mix flake or pearl with a clear coat so you have base color, pearl/flake clear, straight clear in a 3 stage process. But you get a little different look from it. All this does is keep all the pearl/flake above the paint so you can use less and get the same consistency

[SoSideways]

Yeah I plan on doing it in a 3 stage process. Base, flake, clear.

Now, what should I look for in a gun to spray the flake? I was just going to pick up a cheap paint gun from like Harbor Freight, and to be honest, I know nothing about spray guns, so I wouldn't know what to look for.

All I know is, I'm probably going to pick up a jar of the HOK small flakes.

[landins13]

The flakes won't just lay down as you may have already figured. Keep the gun moving for sure, you may have to give it a little swirl or a shake every few seconds to keep the flake from trying to concentrate in one area of the spray cup.
Keep a lookout at the layout of the flakes as they are coming out and hitting the car, you will more than likely have to concentrate on some areas of the car to ensure the spacing and concentration of the flakes are consistent.
Goes the same for pearls also, I recommend the powder pearls over the liquid.
The larger the flakes the harder it is to get the layout right. Hope the info I posted helps a little bit.

Good luck with the project. Post pics when you get finished.




dude knows his shit, another trick is to use a primer gun, it has a higher output and will keep the flake from clogging, it is effective, but you have to be really consistent and make sure that you dont move too slowly and cause runs or move too quickly and tiger stripe the entire car.

practice on an old body panel, a piece of cardboard a nitrous bottle, what ever you have, several times before you go near the car, also if your friends father has painted before ask him if he will do the painting for you if not show you exactly what needs to be done.

if you do clog or cause runs in the paint, remember any imperfections can always be sanded out and re sprayed, just make sure that you spot anythign you want to fix, well before you think about clearing the car.

i spent 3 years working as a painter at ACT customs.

good luck with the project, im looking forward to seeing pics when its all done.



PS: the gun itself makes a world of a difference. and the prep of the car is as important as the actually painting. remove all oil dust, ect. get some good tack rags and oil and grease remover. any oils from your fingers and any residue from cleanign materials will cause fish eyes and there is no simple fix for them.

[landins13]

as for the gun question personally i wouldnt pick up anything from harbor freight . you can buy a cheap gun and get the job done, but youll end up paying for it in paint when you have to respray.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=53324&group_ID=12484&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog this was the main gun i used, i loved it, always sprayed consistent and rarelly clogged, in between coats make sure you clean the gun extremely well.

[nisans13turbo]

dude knows his shit, another trick is to use a primer gun, it has a higher output and will keep the flake from clogging, it is effective, but you have to be really consistent and make sure that you dont move too slowly and cause runs or move too quickly and tiger stripe the entire car.

practice on an old body panel, a piece of cardboard a nitrous bottle, what ever you have, several times before you go near the car, also if your friends father has painted before ask him if he will do the painting for you if not show you exactly what needs to be done.

if you do clog or cause runs in the paint, remember any imperfections can always be sanded out and re sprayed, just make sure that you spot anythign you want to fix, well before you think about clearing the car.

i spent 3 years working as a painter at ACT customs.

good luck with the project, im looking forward to seeing pics when its all done.



PS: the gun itself makes a world of a difference. and the prep of the car is as important as the actually painting. remove all oil dust, ect. get some good tack rags and oil and grease remover. any oils from your fingers and any residue from cleanign materials will cause fish eyes and there is no simple fix for them.

Got my diploma in auto body, kinda skipped through the thread but how I do it is what he just said, also how long you thinking to keep the car can also be a factor of what paint and gun you should buy. I can try to help with any info needed.

[McRussellPants]

I didn't have any issues with clogging in my 40$ lowes mini gun.

Its better to use alot of little flake anyway, it looks less retarded but still gets more candy castle.

paintwithpearl.com sells enough to flake out two cars for like 15$

put way more in than you think you'll need.

its not rocket science, move the gun slow, no rattle can dust coat type stuff.

it needs to look like finished gloss after you make a pass, not dotted, but if you go too much it will run. One good pass and it usually wont run, so just keep track and try not to have to go back to get small stuff.

[SoSideways]

That Snap On gun looks nice, but unavailable, can't even see the price... guess I'll google it.

[nisans13turbo]

When spraying pearls or flakes, after every coat should let it dry for atleast min 10mins and max for 15mins just so you dont get any runs otherwise your fucked.

[!Zar!]

Don't spray too close or you will increase the chances of running. Try to keep you gun about 18" back. With long flowing sweeps when you spray.


Also, what compressor are you using?

[Dousan_PG]

you put the flake in the clear coat
we've painted 5 cars w/ flake

it goes in the clear.

[Brian]

yeah

in the CLEARRRRRRR.

PG invented the flake didnt they?

But no more.

bigger and better things now.

[azndoc]

^^^ Yes, like Aaron said. Also I think Aaron's painted his car enough times.

[tacotacotaco]

I say stay away from flake in the clear. Its damn hard to keep balanced. On my car we sprayed copper flake in the clear onto black. In small objects it looks fine but a whole car it comes out damn near impossible to have a balanced layer. When spraying the flake on one heavy lay or just a tad bit slower on a section will result in more flake in that area and when the sun comes up its gonna look mad uneven.
you can probably pull it off on other colors but black was a no no

[landins13]

i was just talking to a friend of mine at school about this, and he informed me that in the second issue of project car they do a 5-6 page run through on everything from the body work to prep to paint, if you can find this still in news stands it would probly be helpful for you in the long run, because it shows you pictures and proper teqnique when painting.

[s14xman]

no problems for me, sure shake the gun every few seconds but other that that with smaller flakes it just goes on with the clear without any other special attention. Never had any gun clogging problems ever.

here is an example of some i did:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/s14xman/DSC04436.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/s14xman/DSC04438.jpg

[Dousan_PG]

uugh

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/my%20old%20kouki%20s14/newcar2.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/lindsay9.jpg

BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH BH
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/dousan/brianh1.jpg

[LB.Motoring]

When I painted Squidds car with flake, (fenders)


I shot it within the first 2 or 3 coats of clear.


I have 4 guns, with varying nozzles,

I used the larges (for primer) and it shot Micro Rainbow Flake just fine,

Lay them down, then you need to have mad overcoats above the flake, then wet sand.

I donno if I have any pics, but its a trial and error kinda thing, I would first try it on small portions,

you will learn you need to "mist" the area etc.

[SoSideways]

hahaha

Yeah I remember the rainbow trout PG cars lol

I'm actually thinking about going with the paintwithpearl.com's ghost pearl for the effect I wanted, but the spraying technique is the same.

I'll probably do a base coat, intercoat with the pearl, then a clear over that.

Thanks for the advice so far everyone!

Yeah I have a couple of spare fenders that I can try the technique and mixes and what not on first :)

[usajdm]

Ive p.m.ed you a forum you might want to check with.
In the late 80's to mid 90's, I was doing alot of work on lowlows and I feel very safe to say that those were the guys you wanted spraying you candys and flakes.
My one piece of advice though, if your gonna go with a candy then please dont put the flake in the clear.
When you can compare the two different ways then youll see what Im saying.
So jump on there and thye,ll tell you what you need to know about the right gun, psi and the tricks to spray a quality flake job.
Goodluck

[kingkilburn]

Can you post that forum for the rest of us?

[ByeByeSti]

mix it in with the clear as stated before. hope that enough re-assurance for you. also make sure to just like slosh the gun aroound a bit so that there isnt much chance for the flakes to clump up

[DUSANMANDIC]

shoot your base....mix your flake with the clear....shoot the clear/flake mix to your liking..... let dry...wet sand smooth cause not all the flakes are goin to lay flat so u have to bring it all down and then shoot just clear and then wet sand and buff and your done

[TheS14project]

I work in a bodyshop as well, and a guy I used to work with told me of trick that used to be done on ratrods and bikes. Just like stated above its a 3 part process but the second step is a bit different.

1. After applying your base coat, let it flash long enough before applying the flake.

2. Make a seperate basecoat using only 50% balancer and 50% binder. Then add the desired amount of flake to it. Make sure to spray in a overlapping fashion as if spraying candy. Allow it to flash.

3. Clear coat over the flake basecoat.

Flake added in the clearcoat will not lay down flat sometimes, and when wet sanding it, it will hit the flake and cause it to turn chrome, so if your not using a chrome flake youll end up with little shiny pits everywhere.

Heres a few shots of mine after using the methods above.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/bondokings/Motor-shot.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/bondokings/timingcover.jpg

notice how deep the flake is buried in when using a tri stage.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/bondokings/Motor-shot6.jpg

[firelizard]

Suspend in clear base. 'Nuff said. Or in clear, then put flakeless clear over it, but then you're spending more clear which is more $$$ than clear base.

And do test panels big enough to see if it gets oriented properly.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1895/pearlhh9.jpg
Base, pearl, micro flake, clear, dirt from filthy garage.

Sick.

[SleepySR]

The biggest thing shooting flake is proper needle size in the paint gun , i would recommend a 1.8 - 2.5 , and if you can find a binks #7 siphon feed gun you can purchase an agitator that goes in the cup to keep the flake mixed evenly .

just my .02$ and 11 years expeirece

[babowc]

1. After applying your base coat, let it flash long enough before applying the flake.

2. Make a seperate basecoat using only 50% balancer and 50% binder. Then add the desired amount of flake to it. Make sure to spray in a overlapping fashion as if spraying candy. Allow it to flash.

3. Clear coat over the flake basecoat.


Didn't understand #2..
What do you mean 50% balancer and 50% binder?

[McRussellPants]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/SILMASTERFLEX/111_0995.jpg

just finished that operation like a week ago.

fuck two coats, if you do it right it doesn't come out coarse.

[TheS14project]

Didn't understand #2..
What do you mean 50% balancer and 50% binder?

Balancer and Binder are ingredients that go into all paint formulas, both are clear in color. You can buy a quart of each at your local paint store. This will be more then enough to do an entire car with.

Seth

[Bubba]

The biggest thing shooting flake is proper needle size in the paint gun , i would recommend a 1.8 - 2.5 , and if you can find a binks #7 siphon feed gun you can purchase an agitator that goes in the cup to keep the flake mixed evenly .

just my .02$ and 11 years expeirece

Binks #7 for the WIN!! I miss my old #7's. Had 2 in high school when I was first learning. Primed with one, laid heavy flake and thick pearls with the other, SATAjet for the finish coats. That SATA will run you a good bit though. When they first came out I payed almost $600 for my HVLP gravity feed. Broke me for a whole summer. I had to paint a car just to get back on my feet.

[Matej]

Personally I would mix the flake with the first clear coat.
Don't mix it with the paint. Many times depending on the viscosity of the paint, the paint will stay on top of the flake, and instead of flake you'll just have a lot of little bumps on your car. It happened to my roof during our first try back when I used to have flake on it.

[Bubba]

I would never recommend having the flake thrown into the paint mix if u want it to stand out alot. I always put shit like that in the clear.
Do 1 maybe 2 coats of clear with the flake in it and then do the rest just plain clear. As for the clears mixture, look on the can or ask the guy at the paint store. Different brands sometimes have a slightly different mixture.

[SleepySR]

The paint job will turn out better if you mix the flake in a clear basecoat then follow with a high solids clear coat. The clear will bury any flake that didn't lay down . Don't forget a drop coat while spraying the flake so you have even coverage. Bubbablak I purchased a Rp3000 digital about six months ago and I am truly impressed , I thought the rp2000 was good! :rawk:

[SoSideways]

Yeah so far, you all have been suggesting spraying the flake suspended in a coat of clear, then laying at least another clear on top of that for the best results, and that was my original idea as well. So thanks for backing up my original ideas :)

[musikjunkie]

im glad this topic came out because im getting my car ready for paint

[-E-]

just spray it like you would spray a tri coat pearl. Just use a slower reducer for the flakes to stay wet longer so it can lay down.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3526/valvecover1cw8.jpg

if you mix the flake with the paint you will not get this effect
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/HEYICU/paintstuff/flakegif.gif

[KwKouki]

E has spoken peoples.........if you need paint just do yourself a favor and send it to him :)

[bo2o]

thats what it is... 50% balancer and 50% binder. i use to work at a body shop and thats what you use to put on pearl.
for those wanting 3 stage.
its comes out a lil yellow but sprayed cleared.
every 1 keeps saying make 3 batches of clear.

the balencer and binder is just clear base.
theres base coat, clear base, and then clear coat all 3 diffrent things.

for base and clear you can use a 1.4 tip. for mid to big flake you need atleast a 1.7 and up. a primer gun or gravel gun.
you you open the fan as big as you can overlap 75%. you want the fan to be almost a foot large.
flash like normal but just let it sit longer for clear.after done spraying flake let it sit for a long while. then i would suggest spraying air over the top to take off dust and loose flake..
where you painted? outside or booth?
be prepared to get alot alot of overspray! haha

harbor frieght guns suck! those fan dont reallie adjust.
i just a sata nr95. good gun for beginner. looking for a nr2000 or nr3000 soon.
the 3 guns your reallie want are those.
get a 1 qrt cup for the gun too if you decide on the harbor frieght.

and yes practice on a panel before you doing ne thing.
go really slow also. like really really slow. the slower the better when you get better you will get faster.
it took me like 6 hours to paint a car. thats alot of cups of paint and time to flash and then clear. takes a long time. you want to lay everything thin the first time out then spray heavy once you got that bitched tacked. and you want to make things look wet.


sorry for my bad grammer.

[LB.Motoring]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/SILMASTERFLEX/111_0995.jpg

just finished that operation like a week ago.

fuck two coats, if you do it right it doesn't come out coarse.




Corolla correct?

[skynyrd2290]

flake is usually in the base coat or pearl if you are spraying pearl. you can put it in the clear but if you wet sand and buff it after then you will remove some of the flake.

[DUSANMANDIC]

umm no its not its in the clear man. with all the people saying its in the color they must have never done it and all the body shop guys (like me) that have done it would know so who ever is thinking about doing it do it the right way dont lisin to people who think they know.......and just to show all of u that it is in the clear

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/howto/135_0308_flake/index.html

[koukimonster139]

flake is usually in the base coat or pearl if you are spraying pearl. you can put it in the clear but if you wet sand and buff it after then you will remove some of the flake.

pearl is not flake


if flake is in the basecoat either you or the halfass bodyshop where you get your shit painted is ill informed and or ignorant

[GabeS14]

yup, flake goes in the clear..'
just got mine done.....


still no hood on yet.. needs more wetsand.and more buff..
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/gabriel_ackley/dogs038.jpg
with old wheels on..
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/gabriel_ackley/dogs018-1.jpg

[BustedS13]

sure is a lot of work to make your car look like my grandma's kitchen counters

[GabeS14]

Ummm.. a lot of work???
lol..where the hell did you see that?
Flakes are easy to do..as long as you do it right.. just like any other paint job..
So umm..if you have some more stupid shit to say ..make sure it makes sense.
and um..is your grandma a Raver or Hippie..????
if her kitchen looks like that I can imagine the room!!!!!

lol..let me know when the next party is..ill bring the goodies!

[usajdm]

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1092/lrp1rx4.png

This is the type of s#!t Im talking about.
The style might not be what your looking for but the quality should be.
Ive been part of alot of different automotive styles and in my experience, no one laid paint like the lowrider builders.
Keep in mind too, getting a finish like this takes time and patience.
Number one, dont rush.

Anyone else looking to read into this:
http://www.layitlow.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=146706

[widegts]

i have done some crappy, great, ok, good, whatever flake jobs, and not ashamed at all what so ever, because flake jobs are a bit harsh...

--

NO DRIPS! trust me -=o)
- flakes will go with it and your assed
Pack the clear
- just like HOK FLAKES, they turn silver! i know my jap job happend that way, so pack the clear!
GOOD VENTELATION!
- overspray flakes in the air has to sit somewhere, so guess where it goes most of the time... HOOD, ROOF, TRUNK...

i CANT THINK OF ANYMORE RIGHT NOW, IM AT THE SHOP at 3am, about to shoot a 350z, but ya, if you have any questions.. UM ASK AWAY, AND ILL ANSWER TO MY EXPERIENCE... not what the books says (though its great to read how to shoot flakes too)

ok its 4am now, fuck, stupid time change! ill be back on this thread later



ALL IN ALL... GOOD LUCK! -=O) painting is fun for the most part!

[jaymarb]

mix your clear with flake shoot one coat. next put flakes in a paper paint strainer and shoot air through the bottom of strainer and aim it at the car from 10 feet back. (this takes alot of experience to do so practice alot be sure to use goggles) Then shoot car with clear again then repeat process (make sure pressure is turned down when shooting the car with clear on top of flakes; repeat process no more than 5 times).After the paint is dry you'll have a hard time buffing, but you should see the flakes effect and consistency when you get this technique down. I've done this to many lowriders back in the day. It'll look NUTZ.

[bo2o]

man that sounds hard to do as hell!
that needs to be youtubed or something for all of us to see.

[widegts]

I have learned to do flakes fairly well now w/ the technique i started doing. Many painters have there own style -=o), so no one way is best.

but here is another way to look into..

--

there is a gun that is like a PAINT GUN, but its for flakes/pearls. I cant explain it, but it is basically a AIRBRUSHING type gun, where the flakes/pearls are shot by it self! No need to mix in clear and so forth.

I think you shoot the clear, or a coat, and use this method to have it stick onto the clear. I AM NOT SURE, but that is a way to look into...

-------


I have like a grip of methods to shoot flake, but in the end, like i said, which ever one works the best for you is your own style...

shit, u can even half the flakes on your hand and blow!!! hahaha jk jk jk

[SoSideways]

Well, at this point, I think I might be using the red ghost pearl on the paintwithpearl.com site.

That is if I stick with this color that I'm going for in my head.

I am the most undecided person ever. Thought I got my wheels picked out, then boom, changes my mind 3 times a day, and same with color.

In either case, thanks for the advice so far.

[widegts]

haha, what is the scheme sosideways?!

if you want a honest opinion, im always honest -=o)... if you need any help, or have any questions, just pm me...

i helped exitspeed a lil w/ suggestions, pointers, helps, and all that about his soon to be painting project.. -=o)

[samplesurf]

i have a question as im painting my car this weekend with some very fine .004 flake, ive painted before but never with flake, so when i put the flake in the clear and im about to strain it into the gun will the flake get stuck in the strainer or go through and be ok?

[koukimonster139]

i have a question as im painting my car this weekend with some very fine .004 flake, ive painted before but never with flake, so when i put the flake in the clear and im about to strain it into the gun will the flake get stuck in the strainer or go through and be ok?



...put the flake in the clear after the clear is in the gun ... .... .....

[samplesurf]

...put the flake in the clear after the clear is in the gun ... .... .....


i was hoping to be alittle more accurate, like put a certain amount in each quart of clear, if i add it to the cup and then put some more clear in when it isnt completely empty it will throw off the mix, so thats why im asking if it will go through the strainer ok

[DUSANMANDIC]

im not sure how find the screen on the strainer i just strain my clear and dump my flake in the cup and put the top on and give it a few good shakes and take a peek and if im happy witch i allways am and then shoot

[GabeS14]

i was hoping to be alittle more accurate, like put a certain amount in each quart of clear, if i add it to the cup and then put some more clear in when it isnt completely empty it will throw off the mix, so thats why im asking if it will go through the strainer ok

well I am pretty sure 1 oz of the Flake is enought for a car, so just calculate how much clear you are gonna use and devide the flake by how many times you will fill the gun...
or do it the simple way...

add some flake to the gun.......spray a test area....if that is enought flake for you...then spray the car....if not just add more.....
you can always spray over in case you dont add exactley as much as you had before!

[HyperTek]

Corolla correct?

thats a s13.. how the hell can you not know that? u had both cars lol :rl:

[bo2o]

would adding cocain be baller to a paint job? haha

make lines like coke and prepare it for your cups.
should b only 2 i believe.
2, 1 quart cups.
just use the exact same about for each cup.
i think a small hand full would b enuff like the amount you put gel on your hair to spike your hair if you have a 8 to 12 clip.

know what im talking about?