Is my turbo destroyed?

[Driftapparel.com]

Engine-S13 SR20
Car- 92' 240SX Fastback


Something (hopefully not the piston) was smacking my #3 cylinder sparkplug. Long story short.... a piece of the porcelane from the sparkplug has worked its way into the turbo. Is it enough to completely destroy the turbo or is it uncommon? I realize it probably depends on the size of the piece but it definately sounds small.

Oh and any idea what the heck could be in my cylinder chamber to hit the spark plug? I used bore scope and couldnt find anything. Could it be carbon build up? I'm not sure if I spun a barring or what. I did compression check, checked out great. Bottom end sounds healthy. I really can't place the problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks alot guys

[slider2828]

What type of plug? Could be defective plug or not cold enough plugs. But wait the porcelain part does not go into the combustion chamber, so how does that get into your turbo??

[gotta240]

You just installed the spark plug upside down...

Thats why you have clearance problems and why porceline is in the engine. j/k

[burnsauto]

the turbo may be shot. a pebble can destroy a $2,000 turbo in an instant.

but i'd worry about whats going on internally with the engine, before the turbo is concerned.

[DJ_Sunrise]

I've seen motors suck washers in through the intake, through the turbo, through the engine, through the hot side of the turbo, and shoot out through the exhaust.. Will you have any problems? Maybe.. Take off the o2 housing and take a look at your blades. Put in new plugs and try it all again.. I'll sell you a blown T25 for $40 shipped lol.

-Bart

[Driftapparel.com]

gotta24o lol! I hope im not that dumb. lol

It all started when I broke in the freshly rebuilt turbo. I no-boosted around until about 95 miles had been passed. After I hit 95 miles and figured the rebuilt turbo was well enough lubricated I decided to boost a little. At about 4,000 RPM I heard some rapid ticking sounds (something smacking the sparkplug) and then lost two cylinders and heard some "tinny" hot aluminum ticky sounds (you like that description, I know it), Which I assumed may something rattling around in the turbo and or manifold or whatever. I pulled the sparkplugs to find piston 1 (closest to radiator) sparkplug was not gapped at all. Piston 3 sparkplug not gapped and pitted. I replaced the sparkplugs with new ones and fired her up. ran smooth with a few sharp sounding ticks (something hitting the damn sparkplugs again).

This is the pint where I used the scope to check the cylinder. couldn't find anything. Put an extra washer on cylinder 3 sparkplug. After idling this way for a while (sharp ticking every so often) finally the plug gave out and was only running on 3 cylinders. I continued to let it run on 3 cylinders to really try to hear whats up. This is when i heard the sound comming from manifold again. Pulled the #3 sparkplug only to find out it had broke and a piece of porcelane was missing and the rattling I was hearing is the porcelane in the turbo. I will be removing the turbo tonight or tomorrow most likely.

I will keep everyone posted as to whats going on.

In the meantime anyone who has any idea as to what this could be or what the problem could ultimately be, keep on posting my fellow Zilvian's!

Thanks alot!

-Brett

[Driftapparel.com]

the turbo may be shot. a pebble can destroy a $2,000 turbo in an instant.

but i'd worry about whats going on internally with the engine, before the turbo is concerned.

Yeah i know just hoping. lol

Any ideas? Read prior post

Thanks Burnsauto!!

[Driftapparel.com]

What type of plug? Could be defective plug or not cold enough plugs. But wait the porcelain part does not go into the combustion chamber, so how does that get into your turbo??


No I mean it broke in the cylinder and I believe it made it way through the exhaust manifold and now into the turbo. I am not entirely sure but I figured this could very well be a possiblity. If it definately isn't then this helps cuz now I want to know where the piece went and what the noise from my manifold/ turbo area is??? CRAP!

Thanks for all the input guys.

[jilo]

id take the head off the engine and have a look at whats smashing your spark plugs...

[slider2828]

Wholly geezus, you snapped the plug in half? That is completely not normal man.... I think maybe spun a bearing or something not installed right.... There is pretty much NO WAY a correctly built SR can slap that spark plug... I say remove the whole engine and take a look and redo it right... Something really doesn't sound right and you will chasing it till the cows come home if you don't.... Secondly metal pieces can score the cylinder walls too.... So really I suggest remove the whole engine, if not, the head is ok too, but I would check the bottom end as well.... sorry to hear that.....

Break in procedure is wrong too.... It is run it with ATF for 10 minutes. Conventional oil in for 10 minutes. Then SynBlend for first 100 miles. Then SynBlend for 500 miles. Then SynBlend for first 500 miles. Then whatever you like. All revs need to be under 2000RPM for first 500 miles. Then I say boost away....

[gotta240]

I will put money on one of two things.

1. you have the WRONG sparkplugs. Did you recently change them?

2. YOu have a bad rod bearing or cylinder "pin". (wrist pin i think its called)

[Driftapparel.com]

Thats just it, I replaced the turbo and manifold and thats it. Before the car ran awesome and was extremely strong. So I did not change the spark plugs until after the problem started.

I am in agree-ance of the spun bearing but I did check out the top end and everything checked out ok. After letting the car run for a bit and listening my friend and I both fealt that the bottom end sounded healthy as well. (freakin wierd) So now I think there was maybe something in the piping that got sucked in to the cylinder and was being pushed up into the spark plug. and now after finally breaking the spark plug (not in half btw lol) a piece of the porcelane is jiggeling around somewhere (probably the turbo). So not that that has happened I hear no more problems with the engine other than whatever it is ratteling around in the manifold/ turbo. (im thinking it's the porcelane and whatever was originally in there hitting the plug)

but of course I still deep down think I spun a bearing or a wrist pin ultimately!

Now if I drain my oil and look at it, would it look metallic or anything from something being broken?

[steve shadows]

Did you remove the turbo and inspect it?

Then why did you post?

Remove take picture if it's not brutally obvious then I might be able to help you.

[Driftapparel.com]

yeah as soon as I get time I am pulling it all off and checking it out. I will post pics.

I was just hoping someone might know what is going on based on what I am explaining. I checked (on a SR20 on an engine stand) and it looked damn near impossible for the piston to hit the spark plug.

So I guess a simple question(s) would be...
1) can a piston in an SR20 even hit a sparkplug? even if the damn thing snaps off? lol (it seriously looked impossible but u never know)
2)If not, what the hell could it have been (someone said maybe carbon build up)
3)Could something have fallen into my exposed piping (while i was changing the turbo) that runs right into the intercooler and just kinda stayed there until I boosted, with the boost possibly pushing it into the engine?

Thanks guys!!

[steve shadows]

Mechanical cam timing or your motor ate a bolt at some point

check your throttle body to see if you are missing a screw

[Driftapparel.com]

Awesome! (well kinda) lol Yah thanks alot steve shadows!

[slider2828]

Its internal though.... Are there really internal bolts? maybe the build wasn't clean and you left something in the engine, pipes, or something? Dropped a bolt into the pipe or throttle body or in the spark well or valve cover.... Just weird... Tear it down just to make sure

[sr20boostn20]

when you look down through the spark plug hole the top of the piston looks prefect?

[slider2828]

Dude a medical endoscopic scopy would awesome with a light on it...
lol

[Driftapparel.com]

when you look down through the spark plug hole the top of the piston looks prefect?

yeah it did actually look ok. There was alot of carbon build uo so it was tough but it definately did not look damaged.

[Def]

So what sparkplugs were/are you using?

[Crono562]

i would check the part # on the box of the spark plugs you put in with one of the many threads on here that lists all the part #'s for different brands you can use on sr's. Sounds like you may be using the wrong plugs, if it isnt your motor ate a bolt or washer. Pulling the turbo will really help because if the object is still stuck in the manifold/turbo like you say, then you will see it! :-p When the turbo is off check the turbine wheel blades and wiggle it to see if there's play in the rod assembly (is it ball bearing or journal?), if those seem ok then the turbo is probably still ok.

[TanaMU]

I've seen motors suck washers in through the intake, through the turbo, through the engine, through the hot side of the turbo, and shoot out through the exhaust.. Will you have any problems? Maybe.. Take off the o2 housing and take a look at your blades. Put in new plugs and try it all again.. I'll sell you a blown T25 for $40 shipped lol.

-Bart



How does a washer go through an intercooler? :tweak:

[Driftapparel.com]

i would check the part # on the box of the spark plugs you put in with one of the many threads on here that lists all the part #'s for different brands you can use on sr's. Sounds like you may be using the wrong plugs, if it isnt your motor ate a bolt or washer. Pulling the turbo will really help because if the object is still stuck in the manifold/turbo like you say, then you will see it! :-p When the turbo is off check the turbine wheel blades and wiggle it to see if there's play in the rod assembly (is it ball bearing or journal?), if those seem ok then the turbo is probably still ok.

Awesome thanks! It is a Jounal. (Stock T25)

And the thing about the plugs is that it was running perfectly fine for at least 4000 miles and nothing was wrong. Just when I went to boost after changing the turbo and the manifold is when it started.

Thanks alot guys

[Def]

So again...what spark plugs are you using?

You either had some FOD go through your combustion chamber, or something is wrong with your plugs. It's real easy to eliminate the latter option with some simple info...

[Driftapparel.com]

yeah ill check it out. All I know is that they were NGK. dont remembr the model # off the topo of my head.

[pr0ject TRUENO]

So again...what spark plugs are you using?

You either had some FOD go through your combustion chamber, or something is wrong with your plugs. It's real easy to eliminate the latter option with some simple info...

FOD is right. If something hit your spark plug, the only thing that can hit it and make a piece fall of is a piston. If you used a borescope and couldn't see any damage on the piston, it's most likely just a spark plug problem. If you had these plugs in for a while, it is most likely not a piston problem.

Plugs can be damaged with detonation or wear and tear. Are you using any type of air/fuel monitoring?

Once you have checked out everything, I would suggest running your plugs a heat range or two colder and replacing them more often.