Compressor Surge Anyone? (Vid)

[DirtyS14]

I made a little video as my front end is all taken apart... this made it quite simple to attach the camera onto the radiator support.

This is the most appropriate forum section i could think of putting it. No people were endangered or anything. I might've scared a few small children... but that I pretty much did on purpose.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZUbo_mNDZM

Pretty pointless but I hope you like it :)

[S14DB]

I can hear your compressor wheel tearing itself apart...

[McRussellPants]

buy motor mounts.

/insert generic OMG YOUR SHITS GONNA BLOW comment, im sure thats what this thread was for anyway.

[SoSideways]

Sure it's the turbine wheel and not the compressor wheel? :)

Either way, just a T25. I'm probably going to do this when I'm ready to put the T28 on.

[DirtyS14]

buy motor mounts.

/insert generic OMG YOUR SHITS GONNA BLOW comment, im sure thats what this thread was for anyway.

I will soon. Just need some money.

My life would be complete if it blew up during the filiming. :coolugh:

[DirtyS14]

Sure it's the turbine wheel and not the compressor wheel? :)

Either way, just a T25. I'm probably going to do this when I'm ready to put the T28 on.

Trust me he's right. Its the turbine wheel, thats why its called compressor surge. :)

Just messing around.

Yeah, i'm sure if were to get a disco potato or a 2871r, I'd put a bypass valve on. The t28s make a really nice pigeon noise when they surge, You should definitely do it!

[Leetheslacker]

i love compressor surge!

but i dont like it making the pipes blow off. :(

[kornaz]

Sounds like a bus. I hear the bus' turbo surge everyday. I like it tho. :D

[!Zar!]

Yeah.

Because Disco potatoes aren't crap.

/sarcasm.

[hellaflush]

its all bs myth that "compressor surge" actually damages the wheel/cartridge

it does jack shit... flutter will always rule over wank valves... 1.1 bar boost through standard s15 t28 turbo for 3 years - no wankvalve... constant flutter - turbo is still kicking in perfect condition

[EDacIouSX]

that wuold get really annoying to drive around all the time with that sound.

[Z33dori]

that wuold get really annoying to drive around all the time with that sound.

that just b/c the way he was driving it...


right now im running w/o a bov b/c i got a hot pipe and my old HKS leaked...


it so awesome to hear it... besides in only a t25....so cheap to replace....

its really addictive.....but i still want to put on my new HKS ssqv...

:( torn btwn.....:2f2f:

[Kouki-Fiend]

Is it really that harmful for the turbo? I like the way it sounds but id never do it if it was that destructive. I hear alot of car's that sound like this either way. :drool:

[Z33dori]

aslong as you dont drive around like a lunatic smashing and letting off ever 1.5 secs its not to death terrible to you turbo


but if you dont want to have to replace you turbo every 3 months i would advise getting a Bov.

[Dousan_PG]

aslong as you dont drive around like a lunatic smashing and letting off ever 1.5 secs its not to death terrible to you turbo


but if you dont want to have to replace you turbo every 3 months i would advise getting a Bov.

bullshit
i ran no bov for a year
daily drive and tracked
i know quite a few people w/o one
shits fine.

yes it WILL shorten the life of your turbo, but its not the end of the world.

[MeSs]

I ran my gt2860rs 1.2-1.3bar a year, on the road and drifting.. without bov, the turbo is still fine. :)

[slider2828]

I run an HKS SSQV it sounds the same as my car with a GT2871R... no biggy.

[fast_97_240sx]

its all bs myth that "compressor surge" actually damages the wheel/cartridge



2 years and running NO problems whatsoever ... 15psi

+1 for myth

[SoguRacing]

your car must love you. sounds like something from a video game. mine surges a bit..and i have the synapse bov.

[SlideWell]

i love that sound :)
definitely invest in mounts!

[olah.inc]

do you have compressor surge with gt2871r and 1,4bar ?

[hellaflush]

^^^ wtf?

and to further put fact towards the myth... all it is, is the charged air bouncing off the closed TB back through your pipework and being cut by the blades going the other way...

yes air can erode stuff - over 100's of years... and steel is a bit more sturdy than rock etc

[fliprayzin240sx]

Eh, who got balls enough to do this on some $1200 turbos?!?!

[smelly240]

once again - i run no bov as well... going on 2years with same turbo - no problems.

on a much more serious setup than a t28. You should be changing your setup every few years anyway... ya cheapskate.

we've done this convo to death... I wish i woulda seen it sooner so i could predict dousan's comment like the last time this came up.

[SoSideways]

Yeah but I think Dousan is running a BOV now, for the "just in case" factor.

[sblack13]

i'm doing this on my hks 2540. It's louder than the clip trust me. I've never had a blow off valve i liked, owned 2 greddy's and a hks.

[sillyvia13]

Eh, who got balls enough to do this on some $1200 turbos?!?!
vosko does...lol...

[burnsauto]

Eh, who got balls enough to do this on some $1200 turbos?!?!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HqbyDH_HCTE

[!Zar!]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HqbyDH_HCTE


damn. So many dumb people on youtube commenting.

ugh

[DirtyS14]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HqbyDH_HCTE

I thought that car had a holset turbo... and they are stupid cheap. I'm pretty sure i'm wrong though.

For all of you who enjoyed the video or hated it but still suffered through it, Thanks for watching! :bigok:

Yes I know of countless numbers of cars that have run no bov for years with no problems. The thing is my car is my daily driver and I only run it at 7psi, so i'm pretty sure nothing bad is going to happen. Even it if does, as some of you stated, its jsut a wrthless pos t25. Its deserves to die and go to hell. :)

[unicoladron]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HqbyDH_HCTE

lol that's like one of my favorite videos.

[niberlin]

Nice sound! Got about the same noise in my tricked out ca18det ;)

[Def]

^^^ wtf?

and to further put fact towards the myth... all it is, is the charged air bouncing off the closed TB back through your pipework and being cut by the blades going the other way...

yes air can erode stuff - over 100's of years... and steel is a bit more sturdy than rock etc

Do not post misinformation.

Compressor surge is the compressor wheel aerodynamically stalling since the massflow through it drops too low for the flow to stay attached for a given pressure ratio. It has nothing to do with "air bouncing" and being "cut by the blades."

It's not that it "erodes" anything, it's that the wheel doesn't stall uniformly, so it will axially and radially load the CHRA bearings, and in extreme cases can cause the compressor wheel to disintegrate.

Obviously Garrett builds its consumer grade turbos "stout" enough such that they can handle the stress in the wheel, and while the bearings wear faster it is not the end of the world. The wheels would flow more and spool faster if they were thinner and weaker, but they have to survive destruction testing at some multiple of what they think the wheels would ever see in normal use. That said, a recirculated BOV/BPV will keep the turbo spooled up better than with valve and surging the wheel(it slows down very quickly as you can hear from the vid).

Fighter jet engines blow up from time to time just due to pressure variations across the compressor face introducing vibrations across the blades since they are more "bleeding edge" than a consumer grade turbo.

[slider2828]

Aren't GT2871R's around 1200?

[corriganjoshua]

that compressor surge has to be expanding the life of that little t25 ehh:fawk2:

[DirtyS14]

that compressor surge has to be expanding the life of that little t25 ehh:fawk2:

Totally, thats what compressor surge is for. :keke:

Aren't GT2871R's around 1200?

Yeah... around a grand.

[McRussellPants]

vosko does...lol...

Vosko doesn't have a 1200$ turbo lol.

Do not post misinformation.

Compressor surge is the compressor wheel aerodynamically stalling since the massflow through it drops too low for the flow to stay attached for a given pressure ratio. It has nothing to do with "air bouncing" and being "cut by the blades."

nah, its the air bouncing off the blades and it causes the turbo to spin in reverse and whatever other bullshit I've seen about it.

I've had a T25 that I ran chatter on for about a year and as far as I know is still kickin, and I've had a GT28 that lasted about a year, I treated that thing like shit though, it probably would have gone longer if I hadn't shut it down hot all the time and what not.

I won't be doing it on the 3071 though. I'm also going to MAP so it doesn't matter as much and the no BOV definitely does put some lag back in the turbo. Its cooler than fouling out plugs once a month though.

POS T25 took longer to get going than most 30R cars I've ridden in/driven

[Def]

I picked up at least a few tenths of a seconds response recirculating my SSQV with no other changes. Makes sense as you're reducing the pressure ratio across the compressor by exhausting compressed air back into the intake pipe towards the compressor.

I honestly wasn't expecting to feel a difference, but it was easily noticeable.

[hellaflush]

def uses lots of big words to sound like he knows what hes on about

this is a turbo - not a fighter jet kthnx

[smelly240]

lol - spins backwards - bwaahaahaaa right.

[Def]

def uses lots of big words to sound like he knows what hes on about

this is a turbo - not a fighter jet kthnx

Both have compressors...


...and I don't use "big words" - I use the CORRECT words to describe the subject.

[SoSideways]

Def does know what he's talking about.

I am still going to blow up the T25 though. Or try to. Just because it's a T25 damnit.

[Tops*]

My SSQV flutters, but I like the sound of compressor surge more. Yup, I'm doing this. I have some shaft on the T25 too. Bye bye turbo. New turbo's coming soon anyway.

[McRussellPants]

Def does know what he's talking about.

I am still going to blow up the T25 though. Or try to. Just because it's a T25 damnit.

run 18psi through it that'll kill it faster than no blowoff valve or make a big vacuum leak. you'll be on T25 for a while trying to kill it with surge.

[SoSideways]

run 18psi through it that'll kill it faster than no blowoff valve or make a big vacuum leak. you'll be on T25 for a while trying to kill it with surge.

I don't plan on having it on too much longer, so either way, it's probably going to come off within a week.

Got an HKS 2530 turbo ready to go on. That thing will need some pampering... so the BOV will have to stay... oh well.

[burnsauto]

def uses lots of big words to sound like he knows what hes on about

this is a turbo - not a fighter jet kthnx

thats a stupid thing to say. Do you know how fast a turbo actually spins? ..try super sonic speeds. Thats one of the reasons why you get them balanced, to help it from ripping itself apart (premature bearing/bushing failure). And dont knock on someone for using "big words".. he didn't. Don't belittle someone for being educated. :blah:

[spool_sample]

run 18psi through it that'll kill it faster than no blowoff valve or make a big vacuum leak. you'll be on T25 for a while trying to kill it with surge.

+100,000.

Compressor surge damage is pretty small compared to boosting the nuts off the turbo (IMO).

[SoSideways]

Well, on a Garrett ball bearing turbo, compressor surge hurts them pretty bad, compared to the Garrett journal bearing turbos.

[slider2828]

Hey on the GT2530, are you going to do what Yashio factory does? Basically grind the wastegate hole to the EXACT size of the wastegate. Removes pressure faster and faster response. Maybe swain and hone the inside? That would be sweet. If I had time to do it and had my 2871 sittin there, damn I would do.it.

[slider2828]

But his is compressor surge, but my SSQV flutters like that... Is that normal or I have it closed too much. I have it also recirc'ed

[DirtyS14]

But his is compressor surge, but my SSQV flutters like that... Is that normal or I have it closed too much. I have it also recirc'ed

If you have a bov and its still surging that means that its too tight. You want to loosen it up to the point where it does leak boost but can relieve pressure completely when the conditions arise.

Def does know what he's talking about.

I am still going to blow up the T25 though. Or try to. Just because it's a T25 damnit.

:bigok::love:

[SoSideways]

Hey on the GT2530, are you going to do what Yashio factory does? Basically grind the wastegate hole to the EXACT size of the wastegate. Removes pressure faster and faster response. Maybe swain and hone the inside? That would be sweet. If I had time to do it and had my 2871 sittin there, damn I would do.it.

You'd still need a little WG flapper over hang on that hole so that you don't get any "blow by", which will cause all sorts of problems for controlling boost.

Not to mention that part of the turbine housing, from what I've read so far, is ok on strength, but once you start porting it, it becomes weak and can crack.

If anything, I might port it out a little, but I probably won't, because I just saw some videos of a member of another board with that turbo on his car, and the response is ridiculous already. He specifically made the video to show me the response of the turbo. I'll ask him if it's cool to post it here, but it pretty much hits full boost in 3rd gear around 3500rpm. Full boost being 1.15 Bar.

[sillyvia13]

Vosko doesn't have a 1200$ turbo lol.

ok...on his turbo's they surge..no matter cost...
if it was a $1200 turbo, it would surge..I would bet...
I was a track in NH, caanan, and he was running NO BOV, Surging more than I have heard any turbo...Sounded NASTY! from 400ft...
not to mention he killed it that day!! (the track not the turbo)

lol...

[DirtyS14]

Quick question, has anyone ever heard of a garrett t25/28 failing completely from compressor surge? Like not over time such seals, bearings etc, Just instant and complete catastrophic failure? such as an explosion/grenading....

[Matej]

I get compressor surge like that on my T25 even with my RFL for some reason, I like it though, and yes the BOV works, and sometimes it's even followed by a loud backfire, so it's like triple awesome.

[Kouki]

I get compressor surge like that on my T25 even with my RFL for some reason, I like it though, and yes the BOV works, and sometimes it's even followed by a loud backfire, so it's like triple awesome.

LOL thats funny! :keke:

[DirtyS14]

I get compressor surge like that on my T25 even with my RFL for some reason, I like it though, and yes the BOV works, and sometimes it's even followed by a loud backfire, so it's like triple awesome.

Actually Quail's S14 does this exact thing. Flutter/dump/bang!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OuNTnA5A2Fo

Those three sounds in quick succession make me:wackit:

[Dutchmalmiss]

Been running a stock T25 w/ tight BOV spring WITH a recirculated set-up for 2 years. Same turbo today, no problems today. (knocking on wood)

[Def]

Quick question, has anyone ever heard of a garrett t25/28 failing completely from compressor surge? Like not over time such seals, bearings etc, Just instant and complete catastrophic failure? such as an explosion/grenading....

I really doubt it - the wheels/bearings are much too strong to die from something like that. It will cause more wear though, especially at really high boost/wheel RPMs. Like you run 24-26 psi on a GT2871R with no BOV and it probably won't be a happy camper going from 130k+ RPM in a stalled condition over and over.

[DirtyS14]

I really doubt it - the wheels/bearings are much too strong to die from something like that. It will cause more wear though, especially at really high boost/wheel RPMs. Like you run 24-26 psi on a GT2871R with no BOV and it probably won't be a happy camper going from 130k+ RPM in a stalled condition over and over.

Ok thats what I thought initally. So surge could never ever do as much damage as metal debris etc...

[sblack13]

Shit, people are scared to run no blow off valves. I swear, my friend sold his car and it had no blow off valve. Kid who bought the car thought the turbo would blow up. So he went and spent $100 on a hotpipe $250 for a hks blow off valve and $100 for a turbo timer. All to protect his T25.

Same kid who I bought his sr hatch back for like $2000
because he thought it was blown up
when he really ran outta gas.

[smelly240]

lol funny:P

[Pink Slut]

lol my airfilter less ca18det sounds the same :D. No BOV on that one aswell

[SoSideways]

I know the Enjuku guys were running no BOV on their red cars for like 2 years, doing about 20psi on the GT2871R .63 (T3 housings). That turbo was fine after they took it off for inspection a year or so ago I think it was.

[punxva]

yeah my friend who is in good with the enjuku guys asked Ken what they had been running and they didnt run any for the first 2 seasons now they are running them, he didnt explain why they changed their mind

[corriganjoshua]

some turbos may last a while but i dont see how a turbo hauling a** the other direction is a good thing haha

[smelly240]

the turbo doesnt spin backwards...

[SoSideways]

the turbo doesnt spin backwards...

That's right.

It is physically impossible for the turbo wheels, since the compressor and turbine wheels are attached to a shaft together, to change directions completely in a matter of milliseconds.

I guess it could happen, but it will take a lot more force than whatever boost you're running, and close the throttle quick enough to do that. Even then, I think something will break before spinning the other way. There's just too much velocity in the wheels....

[corriganjoshua]

just making sure that it isnt getting out there that this is ok becuase its not haha

[smelly240]

except its not nearly as bad as pushing a small turbo past its limits (like most people do) - running 20 psi on a t28 for example.

[corriganjoshua]

except its not nearly as bad as pushing a small turbo past its limits (like most people do) - running 20 psi on a t28 for example.
but there are those people who do it and say theyve been running like that forever so everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and does it as well...just like this compressor surge fans haha

[SoSideways]

People that "run 20psi" on a T28, how often do you think they're hitting 20psi?

If you do that for a 1/4 mile drag, sure, fine, whatever, probably won't blow it up, but that turbo's lifespan will be shortened, guaranteed.

If you do that for a duration of a full 20 min hot lapping session for road racing, it might blow up after a couple of months if you race every week.

If you run that same turbo on like 14psi, but run no BOV, it'll last longer than a couple of months.

That's the difference.

[DirtyS14]

but there are those people who do it and say theyve been running like that forever so everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and does it as well...just like this compressor surge fans haha

Why does anyone do anything?

Everyone who does this is considered to be on the bandwagon eh? Well then fuck it, i'm on the bandwagon and I"m loving every single sensual second of it.

[corriganjoshua]

People that "run 20psi" on a T28, how often do you think they're hitting 20psi?

If you do that for a 1/4 mile drag, sure, fine, whatever, probably won't blow it up, but that turbo's lifespan will be shortened, guaranteed.

If you do that for a duration of a full 20 min hot lapping session for road racing, it might blow up after a couple of months if you race every week.

If you run that same turbo on like 14psi, but run no BOV, it'll last longer than a couple of months.

That's the difference.
So dont be a retard and put yourself in these situations right:boink:

[SoSideways]

So dont be a retard and put yourself in these situations right:boink:

Um, if I really wanted to do the above, who are you to tell me not to do it? It's my car, my turbo, my money? :loco:

PS - way to go trying to neg rep me corriganjoshua. Either you're retarded and don't know how to neg rep, or your neg rep did nothing to me because you have so many red squares, but nonetheless, thanks for the neutral rep.

[corriganjoshua]

my apology i didnt know it was you doing this stupid stuff I thoght it was more of a universal conversation but if you want to ruin stuff all the time go for it more power to you...and as for the rep power not sure what your talking about and regardless of the color of some square that you can have givin to you for anything at all...it really means nothing to me and my opinions on how to build a good car are going to remain the same...some just want to be more efficient with there setups than others we all have our own opinions but dont think because you sit on this forum all day long and post all the time your the king of the crop regardless of red dots lol

[SoSideways]

Here's a break down for you corriganjoshua:

1) You tried to neg rep me. Didn't work.
2) If you knew how to read, you would have read that I am currently running a BOV even on my stock T25, but I plan on compressor surging it just before I put my new turbo on.
3) Maybe you could read, but you lack the ability to comprehend. Might want to get that checked out by your local 3rd grade teacher.
4) Not everyone in this world have to build their cars to your spec for you to approve.
5) Have you even driven a car with no BOV to experience the kind of response you have? I have, and I like it. Not at the expense of ruining a $1200 turbo, but for a stock T25, I don't give a shit.

[corriganjoshua]

since number 1,3 and 4 was just trash talk coming from you im not going to even waste my time...no i havent rode in a car without a bov i guess ill have to sometime sounds amazing...nobody cares what you do to your car its just letting everyone else including noobs out there know that it can be done better and safer...ruin good stuff than but dont come on these forums acting like its cool and influencing newcomers to do this stupid stuff...you sure are protective of your re points what are you doing to get all these good ones?

[SoSideways]

Your posts add nothing to this thread.

Please stop posting.

And since currently I'm not adding anything to this thread either, I'm going to stop responding to your vexing posts.

[corriganjoshua]

smartest thing youve said good idea should see if a mod can delete this bs

[tougeracer]

so back on topic, compressor surge sounds cool. Nice video clip, great job mounting the camera

[DirtyS14]

so back on topic, compressor surge sounds cool. Nice video clip, great job mounting the camera

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it! :bigok:

[steve shadows]

I figured because this is zilvia the last 2 pages were just non-sense so I am not going to scour the whole thread for this answer

Do you have a blow off valve???

how is it adjusted.

buy this

Best BOV (http://www.rpsport.net/product/RPS-PWR-BOV/PWR_Blow_Off_Valve.html)

works everytime

[DirtyS14]

I figured because this is zilvia the last 2 pages were just non-sense so I am not going to scour the whole thread for this answer

Do you have a blow off valve???

how is it adjusted.

buy this

Best BOV (http://www.rpsport.net/product/RPS-PWR-BOV/PWR_Blow_Off_Valve.html)

works everytime

It had the stock nissan bypass but I removed it and capped off the pipes.

[steve shadows]

Ok...then there you go.

Install a good BOV on the Cold Pipe and adjust accordingly

why would you do that? Small turbo without Surge Protected housing.

whats the point of this post? Bragging about breaking shit

[DirtyS14]

Ok...then there you go.

Install a good BOV on the Cold Pipe and adjust accordingly

I will do that. Thanks for your advice.

[Quail]

I get compressor surge with my BOV - its got a tight spring, so surges at low boost, and dumps at high boost. Sounds cool I guess.

Most of the UK SX guys run no DV with no problems whatsoever (on standard turbo)

Heres a vid I made to demonstrate to someone what Compressor Surge was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuNTnA5A2Fo

[!Zar!]

I figured because this is zilvia the last 2 pages were just non-sense so I am not going to scour the whole thread for this answer

Do you have a blow off valve???

how is it adjusted.

buy this

Best BOV (http://www.rpsport.net/product/RPS-PWR-BOV/PWR_Blow_Off_Valve.html)

works everytime

I think he just made this thread to show what compressor surge is. He is well aware of it being due to no bov.

Mmm. That PWR bov looks interesting.

[DirtyS14]

I think he just made this thread to show what compressor surge is. He is well aware of it being due to no bov.

This is correct.

I get compressor surge with my BOV - its got a tight spring, so surges at low boost, and dumps at high boost. Sounds cool I guess.

Most of the UK SX guys run no DV with no problems whatsoever (on standard turbo)

Heres a vid I made to demonstrate to someone what Compressor Surge was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuNTnA5A2Fo

Glad you finally found mine. Your video inspired me to make a compressor surge vid from the outside of the car. Yours sound a lot better and a lot more pigeony than mine... and of course your car is a lot nice than mine.:)

[McRussellPants]

Surge Protected housing.


haha. you still think that housing is gonna shift the map over enough for it not to surge with the throttle closed huh?

thats cute.

[Quail]

This is correct.



Glad you finally found mine. Your video inspired me to make a compressor surge vid from the outside of the car. Yours sound a lot better and a lot more pigeony than mine... and of course your car is a lot nice than mine.:)

Thanks bro, appreciated. Nice vid too!

A lot of people seem to think that running without a BOV will cause your turbo to instantly explode in to a million pieces, killing a passing group of orphans.

Not the case though :rofl: