any one runnig on bilsteins or penskies?

[czarli]

Is any one running on bilstein or penskie shocks?

Also what are the best street coilovers,research doesn't really have much reviews on prefference for hardcore street use.

[emersonLP]

I say go with any reputable brand coilover that is dampening adjustable, that way its streetable when you want, then you can stiffen up for the track (or spirited driving). I have Cusco on my s14 and they are aight, but I dont think I can get them rebuilt in the States which is a bummer.
I have a buddy with some Tein's on his s14 that he loves and his ride quality is very good.
I have another buddy with Megans...his ride quality never seems so good but I donno how he has them adjusted. He likes his megans (s13 btw).

I think Stance is supposed to be pretty good and you can get them rebuilt in the states if you need to. Anyone want to confirm that for sure?

Option 2 is get KYB AGX shocks cause they are dampening adjustable and some nice stiff springs (NOT SPORTLINES) and that is a pretty nice budget setup. One more of my 240 friends has AGXs and RSR race springs and thats a pretty nice setup as well, he's been very satisfied for ~18 months on those.

[raen419]

Search for "Koni 8610"

JDM coilovers are overrated.

[spool_sample]

I say go with any reputable brand coilover

When did Bilstein and Penske become not reputable?

In any case, Wiisass on here was working on custom Bilsteins at one point, but I don't know what the details are or if he even finished them.

You could also try PM'ing veilside180sx, he builds custom Konis that are probably enough for most people.

[ZX88]

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=154534&highlight=coilover+thread

here you go list of some better known brands and some reviews.

[SoSideways]

When did Bilstein and Penske become not reputable?


They aren't MaD tOyTe JdM yO!

Not to mention they don't have names like "Drift" or anything cool like that in their names :jerkit:

[MadMaverick]

I say go with any reputable brand coilover that is dampening adjustable

If you read the thread above, there is a link to Dennis Grants site:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

Bilstiens ARE reputable. In fact, the perform better than any of the japanese coilovers he tested. Plus he shows that the dampening control knobs pretty much dont do what you think they do. The whole site is a real eye opener if you want to learn something about suspension.

[raen419]

Agreed.
veilside180sx isn't making Koni coilovers, just to clarify. He is/was making custom shock mounts for the 8610/8611 inserts. If he still is, I'll be asking for a set this summer.

My S13 has Tein HE (as most everyone knows) have pretty crappy ride quality, which I'm 100% sure = crap valving.

[vvtisupra]

you have to be carefuly. Just because you buy konis/bilstein etc. you're not getting the best suspension. You have to change the valving to match the type of spring rates you want. you can't just go out and buy bilsteins and couple it with some 9kg/mm springs and call it a day.

which is an advantage of pre manufactured coilovers.

[drift freaq]

you have to be carefuly. Just because you buy konis/bilstein etc. you're not getting the best suspension. You have to change the valving to match the type of spring rates you want. you can't just go out and buy bilsteins and couple it with some 9kg/mm springs and call it a day.

which is an advantage of pre manufactured coilovers.

Actually see if you do your Homework you can actually buy Koni's for our cars that coupled with the right springs are actually very good off the shelf.
Springs can be adjusted to valving and in fact most all of the Japanese coilovers are oversprung for the dampers. In fact I have driven on several Japanese brand coilovers and not been impressed with the so called its matched springs and valving. It is the ideal thought but most Japanese coilover companies these day just slap a 8/6 or 10/8 or 12/10 spring set on coils valved entirely the same with no differences. The so called matching you talk about is really not that true. Japanese roads and tracks outside of Okinawa are very smooth and they can get away with improper valving, without it being as noticeable.
Plus even with Koni race shocks you really do not need to slap a 9k spring on it. To many people get into the idea that to stiffen overall chassis response thereby reducing roll and stabilzing the car just throw super stiff springs and shocks on. That actually works against the car in most handling situations.
Swaybars are more important than a lot of people give them credit for.

[Jgrand03]

def talk to veilside he's a good guy and local for me and was really helpful with my questions to my understanding the 8611/8610 can handle a wide range of spring rates out of the box I think he said dont quote me on this but 5kg/mm-10k/mm I was going to go with that setup but ended up getting a good deal on some brand new ohlins Coilovers

[StaticX27]

If anyone knows where you can buy some Bilstein shocks for the S14, lemme know :D

[spool_sample]

They aren't MaD tOyTe JdM yO!

Not to mention they don't have names like "Drift" or anything cool like that in their names :jerkit:

lol, truth.

JDM heads could have their cake and eat it, too, though:

http://www.ennepetal.co.jp/01ss/index.html

I'm sure some of Zilvia's Japanese residents could pick these up for someone if they had the dollars.

[racepar1]

Search for "Koni 8610"

JDM coilovers are overrated.

You sir are correct. Japanese coils have VERY high quality bearings and the quality of the fabrication is excellent, but the shocks are just not that great.

When did Bilstein and Penske become not reputable?

In any case, Wiisass on here was working on custom Bilsteins at one point, but I don't know what the details are or if he even finished them.

You could also try PM'ing veilside180sx, he builds custom Konis that are probably enough for most people.

Look below for your answer! Veilside180sx's shit is very good from what I have seen. They are perfect for autocross.

They aren't MaD tOyTe JdM yO!

Not to mention they don't have names like "Drift" or anything cool like that in their names :jerkit:

LOfuckingL! "JDM tyte" and "drift" are waaaaayyyyyyyyyy overrated and in the end nothing but catch phrases.

[emersonLP]

When did Bilstein and Penske become not reputable?

In any case, Wiisass on here was working on custom Bilsteins at one point, but I don't know what the details are or if he even finished them.

You could also try PM'ing veilside180sx, he builds custom Konis that are probably enough for most people.

I didn't say Bilstein or Penske weren't reputable, I just gave examples of suspension set-ups that I have real world experience with.

[raen419]

I 100% agree. The build quality on the outside is nice, but the inside is what needs some work. I've tossed around the idea of getting my HEs revalved in a year or so...but I've got a good amount of experience w/ Konis on other cars, including a few S13/14, and I'd much rather go that route. Plus I may use the camber plates/mounts off the HEs to save some cash.

Plus, iirc veilside180sx's shock mounts/brackets add a good bit of wheel/tire clearance (i.e. space to run higher offsets). Which for me is great, since I plan to do 5lug and would like to run R33 GTR wheels and 245/40/17 RS2s or 255/40/17 RT615 all around w/o spacer or a fender pull. Though I will do the latter if necessary.

[McRussellPants]

I didn't say Bilstein or Penske weren't reputable, I just gave examples of suspension set-ups that I have real world experience with.

Someone asks about Penske shocks. and you reply with. "you could get KYB AGX"

"hrrm, if I can't afford 1200$ per corner coils the cheapest crap shock spring combo I could afford would be a good choice.

The only shock I've seen sold specifically for the 240SX that would be maybe halfway comparable to Penske is the AST setup from Peak Performance.

otherwise you could build a set yourself from Koni or whoever like Ace in the hole, which would be pretty rad.

Penskes are notorious for taking a long time to get rebuilt by the way.

[TiNMAN]

my bro bro is runnin em on his e36.


east menlo park?? you sure that aint EPA son?

[Aeroscraper326]

I'm sorry but penskies rule.

[Wiisass]

you have to be carefuly. Just because you buy konis/bilstein etc. you're not getting the best suspension. You have to change the valving to match the type of spring rates you want. you can't just go out and buy bilsteins and couple it with some 9kg/mm springs and call it a day.

which is an advantage of pre manufactured coilovers.

You need to know how the damper is valved and what amount of damping you need before you can say that. You take a damper that is valved to work with a certain spring on a stock car. You take a couple hundred pounds out of the car and go with stiffer springs and you can still be in a good range of usable damping ratios depending on the valving.

I wouldn't suggest just buying any damper and throwing whatever spring rate you think should be on there. Chances are it will end up not working out right for you.

And I would say that off the shelf coilover setups have no advantage over a well thought out spring/damper package. And you can't match a damper to a spring without a weight. So depending on what weight they're using for their calcs could change things a decent amount. And match is a vague term. If they really did even dyno the dampers that they're using, they could tell you what the range of damping ratios are available through the range of adjustment. But they don't and no one produces dyno plots.


Plus even with Koni race shocks you really do not need to slap a 9k spring on it. To many people get into the idea that to stiffen overall chassis response thereby reducing roll and stabilzing the car just throw super stiff springs and shocks on. That actually works against the car in most handling situations.
Swaybars are more important than a lot of people give them credit for.

This is a whole different discussion, but the balance between springs and bars has many different views and opinions. But it is a fact that sway bars transfer additional load from the inside tire to the outside tire, which depending on the tire construction and the load already on it can cause it to saturate before it should causing that end to lose traction. This would limit ultimate grip. Sway bars are needed, but big sway bars are usually not. You need to look at the dynamic wheel position during different manuevering to know how much wheel travel you need and what situations you need to account for.

In my opinion, sway bars are more important for an easy way to adjust oversteer/understeer balance than for the additional roll rate to a certain extent.

When did Bilstein and Penske become not reputable?

In any case, Wiisass on here was working on custom Bilsteins at one point, but I don't know what the details are or if he even finished them.

You could also try PM'ing veilside180sx, he builds custom Konis that are probably enough for most people.

I'm still working on it. Car has not been driven in a while, but will be going back on the road, mid to late March and the Bilsteins will be on it. I need to get them on a dyno first and then figure out what springs I can run or if I need to revalve them and then we'll see how they perform.

If anyone knows where you can buy some Bilstein shocks for the S14, lemme know :D

They aren't available in North America. You need to get them from a different country and it's not cheap. But I can get them for you if you really want them.

You sir are correct. Japanese coils have VERY high quality bearings and the quality of the fabrication is excellent, but the shocks are just not that great.


What bearings are you talking about?

[racepar1]

Upper mount bearings, AKA pillow balls.

[racepar1]

This is a whole different discussion, but the balance between springs and bars has many different views and opinions. But it is a fact that sway bars transfer additional load from the inside tire to the outside tire, which depending on the tire construction and the load already on it can cause it to saturate before it should causing that end to lose traction. This would limit ultimate grip. Sway bars are needed, but big sway bars are usually not. You need to look at the dynamic wheel position during different manuevering to know how much wheel travel you need and what situations you need to account for.

In my opinion, sway bars are more important for an easy way to adjust oversteer/understeer balance than for the additional roll rate to a certain extent.


Damn! Someone on zilvia actually understands the purpose of sway bars! Most people consider them as super important for limiting body roll, but their real purpose is to fine tune the balance of the car. You don't need "big" sway bars, you need adjustable ones. You control the body roll and wheel motion with the springs and shocks. Of course there are exceptions. On our atlantic car (reynard 92h) we could not get the car to turn, with ANY springs on the car, untill we custom made a 1" thick solid chromoly swaybar (the total length of the bar from end to end was only about 6" mind you). We ran that untill we went with the monoshock set-up on the front suspension (I SERIOUSLY wish I had pics of that), after that we ran softer bars with better results. +1 for the knowledge sir!

[czarli]

my bro bro is runnin em on his e36.


east menlo park?? you sure that aint EPA son?

not much different, but I'm sure where I stay at

[czarli]

Thanks all for contribiutions, I will continue on searching for the specs on the konis and penskies.

[raen419]

Just out of curiousity, what is your price range/budget for your shock/spring build?

[McRussellPants]

Everything Wiseass said + Spell Penske right.


also, lols at saying the heims in japan coils are good 2 weeks after bashing any heim that isn't 60$ a pop. its the same shit breh.

[racepar1]

Everything Wiseass said + Spell Penske right.


also, lols at saying the heims in japan coils are good 2 weeks after bashing any heim that isn't 60$ a pop. its the same shit breh.


**sarcasm**WOW, you must be the heim joint master! I'm sure you have used 100's of them huh? I bet you have even researched what heim joints all the japanese companies use too! **sarcasm**
This is coming from the guy who said that TEIN uses the same 2-piece rod ends that SPL used on their version 1 arms by the way (which have since been updated by SPL), even though TEIN uses 3-piece ends that are made by NHB (probably the leading bearing manufacturer in the world). Do you even know the difference between a 2-piece and a 3-piece heim joint?

[czarli]

whatever it's going to come out to, I dont think I will go over $2k I don't want super science behind it, just dyno and coil rate matching by some one that knows.

[4thHorse]

check this thread out
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=161773&highlight=koni

[Jgrand03]

last time i priced it out the koni 8611/8610 setup with gc sleeve springs and perches, tein camber plates and rear pillow ball mounts plus veilsides housings was around $2200 prices for inserts went up from last year

[czarli]

right on 4th horse,
I actually found a set 8610 for $550/set but I can't assemble, might have that same shop do it... I was just looking and writing as I was reading the other thread about cutting them...huge help

Thanks again all

mc russel parts - thanks for the wraiting leson