Hole in KOYO=BLOWN motor

[gotta240]

S14 KA24DE
Aquired a massive hole in my koyo. ALL my water ran out. Before i knew there was even a hole, my car began to lose power and started knocing severly(i think it was knocking) Obviously the temp sensor still read perfect...no surprise there.

My question is.

What was knocking(if thats what i heard) and why? I know i blew the head gasket, but what about a motor getting hot would make the knocking noise?

If it was actually knocking i heard, i know i'll have much more to do than replace the head gasket.

[racepar1]

Ummmmmmm....... You didn't notice the crapload of steam coming from under the hood that all that coolant must have caused? Not to mention the smell! Anyways if you drove it long enough to blow the head gasket it could have leaked coolant into the oil which would cause the motor to lose lube. Also since the SR (I'm assuming that's what you have) is all aluminium, when the motor gets severely overheated it warps and expands which can cause bearing failure. Also if the oil gets severely overheated it loses it's lubrication efficiency.

[gotta240]

I apologize for the lack of info.

The motor is a ka24de.

There was no steam, coolant smell, or anything. For starter, I think the hole happened before things got too hot. Also, i dont use antifreeze.(water wetter and distilled is my preference) Had i seen/smelled/felt/invisioned/dreamed of any signs of overheating i would have pulled over immediatly.

Also, i'm pretty sure the HG blew out from the ringland OUT. There is no visible oil in the water...as odd as that may sound.

More opinions on the knocking sound please!?

[[email protected]]

"There is no visible oil in the water".


How about visible water in the oil? like a milky looking oil?

[racepar1]

Dude if you managed to get a KA24DE to knock while it still had oil in it you must have overheated the holy hell out of it. The KA bottom ends are pretty much bulletproof.

[mrmephistopheles]

knocking sounds like ball bearings rattling around in a coffee can.

[gotta240]

Sorry, the above post meant to say "no visible water in the oil". It cant be the other way around because there is no water left...lol.

Yes, mrmephistopheles. EXACTLY like ball bearings in a coffee can. How could overheating the motor while still having a perfect amount of fresh oil cause the knock? I don't doubt it happened, just wodnering HOW or WHY?

[karmakaze]

next time install an aftermarket water temp gauge ;)

[racepar1]

knocking sounds like ball bearings rattling around in a coffee can.


I don't know about that mr meph. A knock is more of a solid noise, not a hollow sounding noise. To me a knock sounds almost like someone is banging the side of the block with a hammer. A more hollow rattling noise is generally either the lifters or the timing chain

[LA_phantom_240]

I don't know about that mr meph. A knock is more of a solid noise, not a hollow sounding noise. To me a knock sounds almost like someone is banging the side of the block with a hammer. A more hollow rattling noise is generally either the lifters or the timing chain

Sounds like an angry gorilla is beating the holy hell out of your block with a hammer when it gets really bad. How did you get that big ass hole?

[NiSilS14]

knocking occurs when a bearing spins (usually rod) or a wrist pin going out. It's hard to say what you might've did. Your best bet is to tear apart the engine and see what carnage you might've done.

[Naim]

We can stay here all day and play the guessing game, but in reality, you need to go see and for yourself.

[Sag3r]

Same thing happened to my buddy we where driving down the freeway. When his car started losing power and it just blew the needle didn't show overheating or nothing we just heard loud knocking and Boom!!!

[myzislow]

if enough water got into the cylinder, you could have hydro locked the motor and bent a rod, in turn causing the knock.

[gotta240]

Thats the thing though, i dont think ANY water got into the cylinder. The car lost SO MUCH WATER, so fast, i think the car overheated with NO water in the system.... which is why it didn't steam everywhere.

wouldn't extreme heat cause the head to make noise before the internals of the iron block? Whats the chance of warping the pistons?

[johngriff]

Ok.

There is a mechanical lower end knock, like the rod bearings/mains/crank

Then there is a fuel/ignition/heat knock from up top.

You were hearing a heat based knock. As the motor severely overheated, it started pre-igniting fuel/air because the chamber was so hot.

THAT type of knock is more like a ruffles bag being crumpled at first, then after that maybe louder. To get it louder than that, you must have really beat it up.

Yes, coolant temp sensor doesn't move if only air are passing over it.

Koyo is great, I LOVE koyo(sarcasm). Its kind of funny I would talk smack on them a few years ago, telling people to get pwr or fluidyne, something high quality, and that koyo was my perception of low quality stuff. Now you have mishimito for $80, I could only imagine how long those will last.

As far as repairing your engine. I would just get another. You will need to deck the block and cylinder head if you over heated it that badly to get a good seal between the two. If you have lots of time, do it, other wise I would just get another and swap it in.

[gotta240]

Thank you very much for the knowledgable reply. That makes TOTAL sense.

Sorry to ask so many questions, but.... Other than re-decking the block, is it likely(i know nothing is for sure) that thats all i would need to do? Meaning, is it not likely for the pistons to be out of shape?

The reason i ask is.... I have a good ka head, and a machine shop owes me 300 bucks worth of work. If i can just slap the good head on the resurfaced block, that would be great... If not, no biggie.

thanks again.

[NiSilS14]

If you're gonna get the block re-decked, you might as well check for cylinder taper, out of round, scoring, ring clearances, etc etc. I guess I'm trying to say is your engine is most likely severely damaged from the extreme overheating. I would recommend a full tear-down or just swapping in another engine if you don't feel like dealing with it again.

[C0NAN]

next time install an aftermarket water temp gauge ;)

+1, I also blew my stock radiator which had the plastic top and it also never registered on the stock water temp. Had to change engine because of that incident.

So how did the Koyo develop a hole? From rusting?

[LA_phantom_240]

+1, I also blew my stock radiator which had the plastic top and it also never registered on the stock water temp. Had to change engine because of that incident.

So how did the Koyo develop a hole? From rusting?

Aluminum doesn't rust, bro.

[johngriff]

But it does corode from calcium, which is rich in tap water.

So, you have been warned, you need to be using filtered water, no matter what.

With the block, I am going to guess, that the tops of the pistons are going to look pretty beat up (like pock holes in them), from the detonation, and some ring/pisoton/sleeve wear. Though, I am used to this damage on turbo cars, on an N/A engine the wear might be much less severe.

My big worry is going to be "out of round". My other worry is that the engine got so hot, it thinned the oil and started wearing on the bearings on the bottom end. So expect new bearings, and to really really really measure the whole block well.

[S14DB]

I still want to know how you "acquired" this hole.

Sure you didn't blow the headgasket then blow the koyo?

[johngriff]

acquired = curbed.

[S14DB]

acquired = curbed.

I thought the TC Rod brackets protected the radiator.

[LA_phantom_240]

But it does corode from calcium, which is rich in tap water.

So, you have been warned, you need to be using filtered water, no matter what.

This is very true. I didn't say it doesn't corrode, but that it doesn't rust.

[Gjohnson7]

might be time for an engine swap or like others have said above, if you already have a machine shop that owes you work, get the KA rebuilt right!

[ManoNegra]

I still want to know how you "acquired" this hole.

Sure you didn't blow the headgasket then blow the koyo?

Rock and freeway speeds did it to a friends civic once.

[NiSmOKnIghTsRBS14]

u say there was no water at all in the system???

if so that knockin sound could be your water pump, it happend 2 me... lmk i could be off

:)

[S14DB]

Rock and freeway speeds did it to a friends civic once.

But, it's not a civic. The lower mount and the TC Rod brackets should protect it from road debris that wouldn't damage the car seriously.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/S14DB/240sx/PowerBrace/nismopb-4.jpg

[gotta240]

Long story short. I purchased a radiator that was supposed to be good. It had a hole in it. I took it to a radiator shop and had it repaired by the "pro". Anyhow... The repair SUCKED.

Thanks for all the replies.