AAAAGH! Very frustrating brake problems...

[mcpaul]

I've had some very frustrating ongoing problems in my rear brakes on my '96 240. I replaced the rear calipers and pads about six weeks ago. The car behaved very well for about four weeks. But then...

One day I pulled up my ebrake handle after parking and it went all the way to the top. I investigated and noticed that the cable had become detached from the right rear caliper, which of course caused me to pull much farther on the handle because it was now only attached to the left wheel. The reason it came loose was that the ebrake spring on the right rear caliper had been pulled too far and was locked in the engaged position, effectively locking the ebrake on the right rear wheel. I figured there was rust or something in the spring, so with a little elbow grease I was able to spring it back and replace the cable.

Within 2 days it locked again, and this time it made a horrible grinding noise on my right rear rotor while driving. I decided that the caliper was defective and replaced it, but the problem didn't go away - the spring on the new caliper was also locking into place. So I looked at the ebrake pivot piece under the car - the portion where the ebrake handle cable attaches to the wheel cables. The cable for the right rear caliper was being pulled much farther than the cable for the left rear caliper. This in turn was pulling the right rear caliper spring farther than the left caliper spring, which was locking the right rear caliper spring so that it wouldn't retract properly.

Upon looking further, I noticed that there was a problem with the routing of the two wheel cables. The cable for the left rear caliper had come out of its routing clips, which caused less pressure to be placed on the left caliper spring. I placed the left rear cable back into its clips so that the two cables were equally routed - and noticed immediately after engaging the ebrake that the springs were now being pulled much more equally.

I put the wheels back on the car and took it for a test run, and immediately the grinding noise returned. I figured it was just the right rear rotor, perhaps it had been damaged from the ebrake spring previously being stuck in the locked position. But I really heard the noise from the left rear wheel this time. I took the wheels back off and saw that my left rear rotor was seriously damaged, and that the outer pads on the left side - that I had just replaced six weeks ago - had VIRTUALLY DISAPPEARED, and there was nothing but metal to metal on the outer pad. The inner pad looked fine, and in fact the six week old pads on the right rear wheel - where I had had the original ebrake locking problem - also looked fine. Also, the ebrake was retracting properly on both calipers, which ruled out any futher spring problems.

So, the only thing I can think of is that my six week old left rear caliper is also defective. My intention now is to get a new left rear caliper and new pads and rotors (both rotors were at the end of their life anyway), and pray for the best. Does anyone have any idea about why I'm having problems? Do you think the new left rear caliper (and of course new pads and rotors) will solve the problem?

[mnmax]

i say just replace the rotors and pads. and the reason for your outer pad just disappearing like that is more than likely you have a sloped driveway and that brake was essentially being used more than the other when you were parked... or just the simple fact that you bought some faulty pads. hope you saved the reciept and get that warranty

[mnmax]

oh yeh... might want to change that e-brake cable too... reason being that if it had slipped once before, more than likely it will again. or better yet, go hydraulic then you don't have to worry about those cables being perfectly equal.

[mcpaul]

i say just replace the rotors and pads. and the reason for your outer pad just disappearing like that is more than likely you have a sloped driveway and that brake was essentially being used more than the other when you were parked... or just the simple fact that you bought some faulty pads


I guess the pads were just faulty then because I park in a flat garage.

As to your suggestion of the hydraulic ebrake, how does that work? I know very little about repairing my car other than the basic maintenance stuff (brakes, etc) and it's almost 100% stock...so what's entailed in switching over to a hydraulic ebrake?

[mnmax]

basically what you need is the handle assembley that comes with a master cylinder just like your regular brake setup only it just controls the rear. then you want to get some brake hose. preferably i would go with some steel braided or even bend yourself up some hard line and then the handle assembly will actually run inline between the master cylinder and the calipers so don't worry about making any unneccessary(wow...did i spell that right?) y-connections some where. it's a fairly easy thing to do. i know k-sport sells a kit but the handle doesn't come with a locking system so it can't really be used for parking. you can probably just use your stock handle and see about getting that master cylinder to connect to it.

[emersonLP]

s14 rear calipers seem to seize up and die pretty often. But if you replaced both 6 weeks ago, thats pretty crazy. If you have warranties for those parts, I would take everything that could be the problem back and swap it out. Left caliper and the brake pads at least.

Also make sure your ebrake cables are back into position and also make sure you don't have them adjusted too tight, maybe one or both is pulling still even when the ebrake handle is down? Just something to check.

When my s14 rear brakes died, I went z32

[gprb25]

Just a question. Did you use the tool to depress the piston back into the caliper?

I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the e-brake...but it could be the reason for the squealing.

[HS13KLS]

SAME thing happend to me on my s13...but i looked up on auto zone and stuff and its like 59.99 for reman rear calipers witha 50 dollar core...i have to buy new rotors and calipers and pads...it sucks but i decided to do a 5 lug too :)

[MadMaverick]

and the reason for your outer pad just disappearing like that is more than likely you have a sloped driveway and that brake was essentially being used more than the other when you were parked...

Brake pads dont wear when the car is sitting still. It wore down because your caliper was locked up while you were driving down the road, dragging the pads on the rotor.

The caliper prolly isnt to blame either since you said you were having cable problems to begin with. Replace the Calipers, rotors and pads (make sure you align the little nipple on the pad with the notch in the caliper piston as this will cause uneven wear as well. When you attach your ebrake cables, make sure the handle is in the DOWN position and check to see that it is disengaged at the caliper. Check its operation while the car is up in the air. Make sure it actuates evenly and unlocks. The cable could be getting jammed or it might just be over-tightened at the handle.

Its pretty easy to tell when you have a caliper engaged while you are driving, it feels like you're towing a boat anchor. For the pads to wear that quick, it must have been seriously locked up, im surprised you didnt smell the pad burning. Make sure its not locking up after you park it as well.

[mcpaul]

Just a question. Did you use the tool to depress the piston back into the caliper?



I did but maybe not enough. I got that tool from Autozone - they offer it to you for free with a deposit - and it fit right into the piston. But while I could spin the piston head freely, I didn't think it was going in very far. I had the release valve open but even with the tool it was incredibly hard to push the piston in. How far does it need to go in? Just enough so the pads clear the rotor when I put them on?

[mcpaul]

This just keeps getting better. Now I have a lug nut that is spinning on the wheel stud. Does anyone know if the wheel studs are easily replaced? Do they pop out through the back of the hub - i.e. if I hit it hard enough with a hammer on the front, will it come out?

[MadMaverick]

I did but maybe not enough. I got that tool from Autozone - they offer it to you for free with a deposit - and it fit right into the piston. But while I could spin the piston head freely, I didn't think it was going in very far. I had the release valve open but even with the tool it was incredibly hard to push the piston in. How far does it need to go in? Just enough so the pads clear the rotor when I put them on?

If you have new calipers, they should already be fully backed off. Nissan rear calipers are especially tight going back into position and always freeze up. After backing off old calipers, they should slide right over the rotor with pads installed (meaning, dont force them on, cause your shit is frozen)

This just keeps getting better. Now I have a lug nut that is spinning on the wheel stud. Does anyone know if the wheel studs are easily replaced? Do they pop out through the back of the hub - i.e. if I hit it hard enough with a hammer on the front, will it come out?

They are press fit into the back of the hub. A good shot with a hammer will dislodge them, installing them requires an air gun and some washers.
Is the wheel still on? You wont be able to remove a stud with a lug stuck on it.

[gprb25]

I haven't done the rear brakes in a while...but i know with the tool, it should spin the piston back far enough to fit new brake pads over the rotor with ease. Don't quote me on this, but I think you spin it counter clockwise.

I'm not technical with my wording, but the caliper has two little "dust boots". You should be able to push those in and the caliper should retract and move back to position by itself. If not, then you have a bad caliper.

As far as the studs, they aren't hard to get out. You just have to position the hub in order to bang them out. The hard part is putting the bitches back in because it's hard to fit a hammer back there to knock them back in. I would take the hub off and do it off of the car.

A ghetto way to put them back in while the hub is on the car is to get a socket or something with length, put it over the new stud and tighten a lug nut on it until the stud pulls itself through. I don't recommend this, but I've seen it work.

Remember to get the 14mm knurl if you have stock hubs.

Hope this helps a little.

[mcpaul]

Is the wheel still on? You wont be able to remove a stud with a lug stuck on it.


Yes, the lug nut is stuck on that particular wheel stud. Any suggestions on how to get it off?

[MadMaverick]

Yes, the lug nut is stuck on that particular wheel stud. Any suggestions on how to get it off?

If your lug is spinning and the wheel is still on, My suggestion would be to get a good drill bit and drill the stud out. Once you get the wheel off, take the brakes apart (rotor off), and knock the bad stud though the hub. Dont bother doing all this shit if you dont have an air gun to press in the new stud.

[slownslurious]

read through the thread, two comments:

1 to original poster:
welcome to the joy of the nissan ebrake cable routing... unlike some other brands of cars I've worked on, nissans of the 240 era have the ebrake designed in such a way that should those clips fail, basically your entire ebrake fails. I think your problems are all related to the cables, the rebuilt calipers likely were (and possibly still are) just fine. You are destroyed your brake components because of the erratic braking you are getting from your ebrake. on a RWD vehicle you can drive with one (or even both) rear brakes dragging like a beotch and possibly not even notice it, until you pull over and your brakes are glowing and your pads and possibly rotors already damaged and everything smells bad and you get mad.
You need to start back at the ebrake handle and properly adjust the entire ebrake cable and mechanisms, and it wouldn't hurt to use a cable greaser to grease the cables and all the other pivot points at that point in time. until you fix the ebrake and get it pulling evenly when you pull the brake (and releasing both sides when you release it) there is no point replacing any more components...

2) mnmax:
NONE of the kits using a hydraulic master cylinder should be used to hold the vehicle for parking. those kits are all for motorsports/offroad/stupid on road togue/ crowded parking lots only. hydraulic emergency brake/parking brake: no. hydraulic happy handle, ok.

3)
this stud business. if the lug is just spinning and you can verify that the stud is spinning behind it, you are going to have difficulty drilling it off (it will want to keep spinning). I would recommend loosening the other lugs, then gently putting the car down, letting the wheel shift a little bit, applying the car's weight out against the lug that is spinning. This should force the splines on the stud (assuming there is SOMETHING left there, which there probably is) to engaged into the back of the hub, and hopefully allow you to turn off the lug. air impact would help, but you may be able to do it by hand. Once you do that, continue to replace the stud as directed above. You can seat the new stud by hand, its actually quite easy... just be sure to use a washer pack or something that is perfectly flat and torque the stud down to the proper value. so many people either over torque them and damage their new studs, or undertorque them, which results in the stud loosening up, and takes you back to square one.

[slownslurious]

I haven't done the rear brakes in a while...but i know with the tool, it should spin the piston back far enough to fit new brake pads over the rotor with ease. Don't quote me on this, but I think you spin it counter clockwise.
needle nose pliers work. the tool works slightly better. its sorta a toss up.
you turn them clockwise to push them back in.


The hard part is putting the bitches back in because it's hard to fit a hammer back there to knock them back in. I would take the hub off and do it off of the car.
never heard of anyone doing that. sounds akward and unnecessary. experience and iirc the service manual suggest the "ghetto" procedure.. which works perfectly well.

[Mister.E]

yeah once you get the stud out use washers and an air gun to put the new one back on. but be careful. i recommend putting it on the lowest torque setting and going very slow. it might take a while but i have seen some people try to go fast and it totally strips out both the lug nut and fucks the threads on the new stud. if you have patience it can be done correctly.

[slownslurious]

I wouldn't use the impact for final tightening, it would be ok just to get it in straight though. its surprisingly easy to strip stuff, and at that point in time, if you strip either the stud or the lug, you may not be able to get the lug back off. Then you'll have to cut off the damaged stud (made harder by the washer pack now stuck between the lug and the hub) and do it all over again.

[mcpaul]

I think your problems are all related to the cables, the rebuilt calipers likely were (and possibly still are) just fine. You are destroyed your brake components because of the erratic braking you are getting from your ebrake. on a RWD vehicle you can drive with one (or even both) rear brakes dragging like a beotch and possibly not even notice it, until you pull over and your brakes are glowing and your pads and possibly rotors already damaged and everything smells bad and you get mad.

Slownslurious, I think you're absolutely right. The fact that the ebrake cables have to be equally balanced means that when they're not, shit happens. I think that was the culprit. At least it'll be okay as long as the cables stay in the clips. Maybe I can buy some other clips to screw in to the frame just to make sure those things don't come loose again.

and it wouldn't hurt to use a cable greaser to grease the cables and all the other pivot points vbmenu_register("postmenu_1820962", true);
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What is a cable greaser? If I don't have one, could I just finger-rub some other kind of grease at those pivot points, and if so what kind? And would it go underneath the little boots on the cable?

[slownslurious]

I know a cycle company that sells them, its called dennis kirk. They basically let you spray lube inside cables to lube between the cable and the sleeve. I'm not sure of any specifically designed for automotive use but they will fit any cable. As for lubing the points, yeah finger greasing should be fine... I'd probably use a heavier grease that will stick to them, providing not only lubrication but also a layer of protection against water and gunk build up.

Hopefully when you fix the ebrake problem your other brake problems will be solved, but it sounds like if its not the only cause its at least significantly contributing to your problems.
goodluck

[sthirteen02]

I wanted to know if any one has dealt with what im dealing with now. I changed my rear brake cables and now when i engage the hadle it goes all the way up and the brakes wont hold i can still push the car. i tried adjusting the cable atthe handle but the nut threaded all the way down and still no holding power i have three week old pads and rotors. any help would be apreciated. btw sorry for tread jack

[Ceepo]

I had this problem with my s14 a few weeks ago, i got the car inspected and it failed for ebrake not working so i got looking at it and the spring on the ebrake was all rusted and corrodded to the point it didnt work at all, so i man handled it and sprayed penitrating lube on it and cleaned it up, and now they work like a charm lol... idk if that will help but worth a shot... gl...