3.8 V6 Taurus Fans. Installation tips?

[FaLKoN240]

I've searched and so far I've found one thread on a write up that g6civx says sucks...

(http://www.houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444&highlight=taurus)

So now I'm kinda shit out of luck on what to do. I'm wrapping up an installation that I've been doing for the past week and I kinda want a concise and final idea of how I should install it.

I'm going to temporarily wire it up to a switch, but I would like it hooked up to a relay or something that just makes it turn on when I'm in traffic or low speeds (i.e. when the temperature of my car will actually raise drastically)

Any experience in wiring electrical fans in an:

KA24DE(T) would be nice. Thanks!

[importdude]

http://www.houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444&highlight=taurus

how i am doing mine

[FaLKoN240]

http://www.houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444&highlight=taurus

how i am doing mine

Edited my OP.

That's the thread that G6Civx says sucks.

He's on more than one occation proved the right and wrong way to do installations and modfications to our cars.

Until I have proof that this is a safe way that won't damage my electronics, I think I'll stay away.

[importdude]

ic, i guess its more research for the both of us

[undesiredshoe]

Ok, a relay doesnt tell the fans when to turn on, all it does is use a low current circuit to activate a high current circuit. If you want on just using a switch for now, i would wire it like this;

Pin 87, would come from your batterys positive terminal. Use a fuse on this wire. I would try 15 and see if it blows. If it does, step it up and use the next higher amp fuse.

Pin 30, the one thats orientated differently on the relay, would go to your fans positive wire.

Pin 86, could come from any power source really. Tapping into your cigarette light wire would only allow you to use your fans when the keys are in the on position but you wouldnt forget to turn the fans off, only if you forget to turn off your car. To have it work anytime you want, connect 86 to a constant power source; ie, battery.

Pin 85, would connect to your switch and then to ground.

Place the relay in the engine bay or the spare slot in your relay box because thats where a relay is suppose to be; not inside the car.

Thats how it would be wired if you were using a manual switch. Personally, I would use a thermostatic switch that switches on automatically at a set temp. You can use both, a manual switch and thermo switch, just wire them in parallel on pin 85.

[FaLKoN240]

use a thermostatic switch that switches on automatically at a set temp. You can use both, a manual switch and thermo switch, just wire them in parallel on pin 85.

That's what I really want, but I have no idea how to do that.

Most of the mods I do to my car are cookie cutter, time and time again trusted methods to yield the most enjoyment with the least amount of downtime.

[g6civcx]

Hey, thanks for the praise. The reason I say that thread sucks is because of this:

5. At this point you can plug the Taurus fan connectors together and route the wires around the battery and into the stock fuse box. Open the fuse box by removing the cover. Start by taking out the fuse/relay trays (Make sure that you properly pop out the fuse/relay trays using the flathead screwdriver.) There are little tabs along the edges of the trays that can be moved with a smaller flathead to release them. Once freed, locate the radiator Hi and Lo relays. **Be real gentle here because these tabs can break easily.** Remove the relays using the flathead screwdriver to move the tab. Set the relays aside, pick a socket, and use the flathead screwdriver to release the relay socket. The socket should then slide out through the bottom of the tray. Now you will need to remove the white plastic piece at the bottom of the socket using the flathead screwdriver to pry the tabs. Once the tabs have been released the white plastic guard should slide out from the socket, move it a few inches down the wires so that you can access the inside of the socket. Now you will need to locate the #3 connector of the socket by looking at the prong side of the relay. Once identifying the #3 connector, use the small flathead screwdriver to pop the connector out of the socket. Pull the old connector wire out of the white plastic guard. Set that old connector under the wires in the original fuse box as it won't be used anymore and won't have any current running through it. Now route the new wire through the white plastic guard and plug the female quick connector in the place where the original one was (Make sure the connector goes in as far as possible.) Reconnect the white plastic guard and test fit the relay in to make sure the new connector doesn't come out. Once that's done, take out the relay and replace the socket in the tray. Plug the relay in, and repeat the same thing for the other relay socket. With those done, you will need to locate the stock 30 amp rad fan fuse and replace it with the 50 amp one (All 240's that I've seen come with the JSRC type fuses. Make sure the 50 amp one you have is the same type as the one in your car.) You may have to bend the prongs a little bit to get the new fuse in, do it and pop that sucker in there.

I'm not sure exactly how much of the stock wiring he's reusing, but chances are he's reusing the power wire from the battery which isn't going to hold 50A. That's why it's unsafe.

I think the best way is to get an electronic fan controller (like a DiF), a thermostat (not the type that gets jammed into the radiator fins), 50A relays, 50A fuses, and 8 gauge wiring throughout.

The DiF has a separate inputs for AC and a manual switch, but will only be able to route 30A. What you do is use the DiF fan outputs to trigger the 50A relays and pull the heavy 50A load straight from the battery.

If you need help I can redraw a diagram for you. It's no big deal. Just make sure you use 8 gauge wires all the way from the battery to the fans and ground.

[Zhanshi]

That's what I really want, but I have no idea how to do that.

Most of the mods I do to my car are cookie cutter, time and time again trusted methods to yield the most enjoyment with the least amount of downtime.

I think you're looking for something like these:

http://www.gulfcoastspeedncustom.com/catalog/item/4704658/4758124.htm

or

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-3083-10

Now I can't remember the name of the sensor off-hand, but it basically completes the circuit if the sensor reaches a preset temperature. The sensor/switch would either be connected to a relay or directly to the fan.

[g6civcx]

I think you're looking for something like these:

http://www.gulfcoastspeedncustom.com/catalog/item/4704658/4758124.htm

or

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-3083-10
Now I can't remember the name of the sensor off-hand, but it basically completes the circuit if the sensor reaches a preset temperature.



Those are variable ground sensors, i.e. the resistance changes with temperature. When the temp hits 180, the sensor grounds out.



The sensor/switch would either be connected to a relay or directly to the fan.


This is incorrect. First, note that these sensors are only 1-prong sensors. That means the sensor grounds out to the mounting surface. The sensor can only draw a small current to ground. You need to use a relay to draw current for the fans.

If you actually tried to wired these sensors inline with a fan, first you wouldn't be able to because the current would get grounded out. If you isolated the mounting block and routed current to the fans, you will blow the sensor and anything attached to the sensor when the fan pulls 50A.

[opponheimer]

I have one of these fans, they own. I have AC, an intercooler, and an uncut bumper .... During the hot hot summer, car never overheats, and I only use the low-speed fan setting.

[undesiredshoe]

That's what I really want, but I have no idea how to do that.

Most of the mods I do to my car are cookie cutter, time and time again trusted methods to yield the most enjoyment with the least amount of downtime.

Buy the thermoswitch with the desired switch temperature, maybe 180*. The size of the switch is most likely to be a 1/8" npt fitting.

Next, buy a radiator hose adapter thing. Basically you cut your upper radiator hose and stick the adapter between the two pieces.

This one is from prosport gauges, there are a lot of other places that these can be purchased from.
http://prosportgauges.com/images/products/detail/shiftlights5c.jpg

If you are going to get the hose adapter, I would get a thermoswitch with 2 prongs. Reason being, a one prong sensor needs to be grounded through what it threads into, if you use the adapter, it is isolated from the chassis ground since its attached between two rubber hoses. You could make a one prong sensor work though.

[buku_points]

wow you guys are going all out for that fan. i have it installed in my 98 s14. i wired it up to my a/c fan switch. i loop the rely so it stay on low speed at all time, another way you can do it is to wire it up to your cig. lighter so it turns on when your ignition is turned over. both ways work well never had any problems with either way.

[FaLKoN240]

wow you guys are going all out for that fan. i have it installed in my 98 s14. i wired it up to my a/c fan switch. i loop the rely so it stay on low speed at all time, another way you can do it is to wire it up to your cig. lighter so it turns on when your ignition is turned over. both ways work well never had any problems with either way.

I don't want it on all the time because then it will take forever to get the car to efficient operating temp. Running too cold is almost as bad as running too hot.

Also wiring it to the cig. lighter is a good way to catch your shit on fire iirc.

[S14DB]

I don't want it on all the time because then it will take forever to get the car to efficient operating temp. Running too cold is almost as bad as running too hot.

Uh, that's what your thermostat is for.

[FaLKoN240]

Uh, that's what your thermostat is for.

That was in response to his having the e fan on all the time.

I'm not much of a engine tech guru. I like suspension and stuff like that. Sorry... :bow:

[Anto]

I heard that low speed is all you need for cooling. Some guys have the 50amp high speed connector hooked up and they said it rarely EVER turns on.

You'd probably be fine with low speed only.

[FaLKoN240]

I heard that low speed is all you need for cooling. Some guys have the 50amp high speed connector hooked up and they said it rarely EVER turns on.

You'd probably be fine with low speed only.

Yeah, I was going to run the low speed exclusively.

I'm hoping that the stock S13 radiator with the Taurus e-fan will be enough for my turbo.

I already started getting ready to connect it.

I need to buy a fuse holder and the fuse for the low speed wiring.

My friend hooked me up with a connector and heat sensor from a SOHC. I have to chop up my radiator hose and do some work. :P

[!Zar!]

Stock radiator and ToysRus fans should be fine.

If your shit didn't overheat before then it shouldn't overheat later.

Get a Fluidyne radiator in the near future and you're golden.

[tt99ol]

dont use the sohc heat sensor
its an emergency only switch that comes on at 205 degrees
i believe a dsm switch will fit in the sohc housing though
comes on at 180 degrees but if you have an autozone near you they sell a thermostatic e-fan wiring kit which is adjustable from 150-240 degrees for $30 and it is enough to run the low speed fan and has an ac wire which could just be run off a switch, it works well though

[jhec23]

I just finished my taurus fan setup on my s14. Basically, I set the low speed to turn on by the adjustable thermo switch or whenever the a/c is on. The low speed is more than enough to cool a stock KA so I set my high speed to be controlled only by a manual switch I run from the cockpit. I'm using 2 relays for each speed, a 30/40A for low and 40/60A for high. The only thing that I need to change is the thermo switch because I'm using the probe type you stick in the radiator fins. I will change it to a threaded type thermo switch and get a radiator hose adapter to be able to use it.

[240trainee]

I wired mine up on my hatch with the low speed on a cheap t-stat, and high on a switch, with relays.

setup sucked, have to figure out how I'm gonna run it on the new chassis, probably 2 switches.

[buku_points]

with your turbo kit and the fan on low your car will run at normal operating temp, mine never runs "too low" and never over heats on low either

[FaLKoN240]

I just finished my taurus fan setup on my s14. Basically, I set the low speed to turn on by the adjustable thermo switch or whenever the a/c is on. The low speed is more than enough to cool a stock KA so I set my high speed to be controlled only by a manual switch I run from the cockpit. I'm using 2 relays for each speed, a 30/40A for low and 40/60A for high. The only thing that I need to change is the thermo switch because I'm using the probe type you stick in the radiator fins. I will change it to a threaded type thermo switch and get a radiator hose adapter to be able to use it.

That's the set up that sounds pretty ideal for me. Did you just use the stock e fan terminal?

[importdude]

i was thinking of wiring it like this

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/addremacc.gif


87-fused battery 10gauge
85 ground
86-find the trigger from low relay(possible from stock relay socket?is that #3 like the link from OP?)or stock efan connector
30-to fan
on a 40amp relay


all 10 gauge
so what do you guys think?

[undesiredshoe]

i was thinking of wiring it like this

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/addremacc.gif


87-fused battery 10gauge
85 ground
86-find the trigger from low relay(possible from stock relay socket?is that #3 like the link from OP?)or stock efan connector
30-to fan
on a 40amp relay


all 10 gauge
so what do you guys think?

I would use two relays, one per fan. There would be less current flowing through them and if one relay was go to out, one fan would still work.

[importdude]

I would use two relays, one per fan. There would be less current flowing through them and if one relay was go to out, one fan would still work.


yah i was thinking that
will what i posted work?

[Anto]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8778/fanwiringfm3.jpg

That's how I would wire up my taurus fan if I was doing high speed & low speed. Low is activated by the thermosensor & high is activated with a manual switch.

OR: Low speed only.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6402/lowwiringonlykk1.jpg



OR
Low speed only with a manual switch for fan activation:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2285/lowwiringonlywithmanualra9.jpg

[jhec23]

That's the set up that sounds pretty ideal for me. Did you just use the stock e fan terminal?

The only thing I used from the stock a/c fan wiring were the 12V Ignition to power the relay coil and the 12v positive power from the relay when the a/c is on. I soldered both from under the factory relay inside the fuse box. I will try to post some drawing when I get the chance.

[g6civcx]

Those pix are pretty good, but remember that they are meant for small fans. For Altima, Taurus, FAL fans you need at least 8-10 gauge AWG and appropriately sized fuse on pins 30.

[importdude]

Those pix are pretty good, but remember that they are meant for small fans. For Altima, Taurus, FAL fans you need at least 8-10 gauge AWG and appropriately sized fuse on pins 30.

how about my diagram?

[g6civcx]

i was thinking of wiring it like this

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/addremacc.gif


87-fused battery 10gauge
85 ground
86-find the trigger from low relay(possible from stock relay socket?is that #3 like the link from OP?)or stock efan connector
30-to fan
on a 40amp relay


all 10 gauge
so what do you guys think?

You need to switch pins 87 and 30. Remember to put a fuse on the red wire, as well as pin 86 if it's not already fused elsewhere.

What are Additional Accessories, ampliers, processors, etc., remote turn on lead?

Remember your relay is only 40A. The fans themselves may very well draw more than that alone. If you piggyback anything else on that relay it may draw too much current.

It should be okay otherwise.

[bo2o]

wasnt there a way to wire up a sohc sensor? thats in the lower hose.?

i remember see'n it done with out a fuse or anything but that looked unsafe to me.

but i was going to do it that way but with a relay forshure.

[FaLKoN240]

wasnt there a way to wire up a sohc sensor? thats in the lower hose.?

i remember see'n it done with out a fuse or anything but that looked unsafe to me.

but i was going to do it that way but with a relay forshure.

I was gonna do that, but I got lazy and just took the old wires off my stock E-Fan and mated it to the harness on the Taurus e fan.

Is that dangerous? I haven't driven the car yet, so I can still change the setup...

I know it's ghetto, but it's a rush job. :loco:

[!Zar!]

Mmm.

Just wire in a fuse.

Worst case is it pops.

[importdude]

You need to switch pins 87 and 30. Remember to put a fuse on the red wire, as well as pin 86 if it's not already fused elsewhere.

What are Additional Accessories, ampliers, processors, etc., remote turn on lead?

Remember your relay is only 40A. The fans themselves may very well draw more than that alone. If you piggyback anything else on that relay it may draw too much current.

It should be okay otherwise.

so i wired it like this
and swaped 30/87

So its
85-ground
86-Remote Turn on(triggeR)( I USED THE STOCK FAN CONNECTOR BROWN WIRE(low speed wire))
30-battery
87-FAN low

wont turn on, while i was bleeding the rad, i saw it hit normal temp on gauge and the fan doesnt still kick on,
then i proceeded to turn on AC(to see if fans turn on )
and it DOES NOT

Fans are working (i tested it before)

anyideas?

im thinking my trigger wire is wrong

[Neejay]

when I posted about this, I got pretty good feedback about using this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/neejay/fan_wiring_final.jpg

[FaLKoN240]

Does the stock Efan turn on on S13s when you put the key into 2nd stage? My e fan now that I have connected it directly to the old stock wiring/plug turns on even if the engine isn't running.

[Neejay]

Not sure. The 1st s13 I had, the efan didn't work at all.

My current one, it came with a manual switch to cut on the efan already.

Also, this was my thread: http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=174155

[midnightouge]

i have my Taurus e fan wired to a switch under my dash, plain and simple.

[Neejay]

dont use the sohc heat sensor
its an emergency only switch that comes on at 205 degrees
i believe a dsm switch will fit in the sohc housing though
comes on at 180 degrees but if you have an autozone near you they sell a thermostatic e-fan wiring kit which is adjustable from 150-240 degrees for $30 and it is enough to run the low speed fan and has an ac wire which could just be run off a switch, it works well though
I heard it's 195 :(

Also, you're the first person I've seen that said not to use the SOHC heat sensor. I just bought one too! Can anyone else confirm/comment?

[midnightouge]

i have a sohc heat sensor that i was ganna use but didnt, FaLKoN240 you can have it if it helps.

[g6civcx]

so i wired it like this
and swaped 30/87

So its
85-ground
86-Remote Turn on(triggeR)( I USED THE STOCK FAN CONNECTOR BROWN WIRE(low speed wire))
30-battery
87-FAN low

wont turn on, while i was bleeding the rad, i saw it hit normal temp on gauge and the fan doesnt still kick on,
then i proceeded to turn on AC(to see if fans turn on )
and it DOES NOT

Fans are working (i tested it before)

anyideas?

im thinking my trigger wire is wrong

Yes, pin 86 needs to see current. I don't know what wire you have it hooked to now.

[g6civcx]

when I posted about this, I got pretty good feedback about using this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/neejay/fan_wiring_final.jpg

This will work only if you have an on/off fan switch or a fan controller. It will not work if you hook it up to a variable resitance sensor because no current is traveling through pins 85 and 86.

Also, remember to put the fuse as close to the current source as possible for best protection.

[FaLKoN240]

i have a sohc heat sensor that i was ganna use but didnt, FaLKoN240 you can have it if it helps.

I got one from a homie, I just am too lazy to install it. LOL.

[undesiredshoe]

I heard it's 195 :(

Also, you're the first person I've seen that said not to use the SOHC heat sensor. I just bought one too! Can anyone else confirm/comment?

IM using one, works fine. Even if it is 195-205, its gonna go down once you start moving again.

[undesiredshoe]

i have my Taurus e fan wired to a switch under my dash, plain and simple.

Are you using a relay with that switch. Plain and simple under your dash could lead to crazy fire under the dash.

[bo2o]

well 195 degree is normal operating temps for cars. so if the fan is on any earlier it will b hard for your car to get into closed loop.

i have my stock efan coming on wen the car is on just to be safe. but i took out my clutch fan.

and with the sohc heat sensor you can wire it up to no switch and it will turn off later even while the key it out of the car.

[Neejay]

well 195 degree is normal operating temps for cars. so if the fan is on any earlier it will b hard for your car to get into closed loop.

i have my stock efan coming on wen the car is on just to be safe. but i took out my clutch fan.

and with the sohc heat sensor you can wire it up to no switch and it will turn off later even while the key it out of the car.
hmm...I guess I'll go for it then...

[S14DB]

well 195 degree is normal operating temps for cars. so if the fan is on any earlier it will b hard for your car to get into closed loop.

i have my stock efan coming on wen the car is on just to be safe. but i took out my clutch fan.

and with the sohc heat sensor you can wire it up to no switch and it will turn off later even while the key it out of the car.

Car has a thermostat that opens at 170 and closes at 165. I dunno where you're getting this 195 from. Closed loop is controlled by the O2 sensor.

[FaLKoN240]

well 195 degree is normal operating temps for cars. so if the fan is on any earlier it will b hard for your car to get into closed loop.

i have my stock efan coming on wen the car is on just to be safe. but i took out my clutch fan.

and with the sohc heat sensor you can wire it up to no switch and it will turn off later even while the key it out of the car.

Does your car warm up pretty well? Because the way I have the Taurus fan wired in, it's gonna work like that for me.

[Neejay]

FaLKoN240 - did you have an aftermarket intake? I was test fitting the taurus fan, then I realized that my aftermarket intake wouldn't be able to fit + hood close. My problem is that I just installed Nismo motor mounts, so the fan kept scraping the radiator shroud and one time even stopped and I started to overheat :(

So I put the stock e-fan back on but left the shroud off due to this fitment problem with the intake.

[FaLKoN240]

FaLKoN240 - did you have an aftermarket intake? I was test fitting the taurus fan, then I realized that my aftermarket intake wouldn't be able to fit + hood close. My problem is that I just installed Nismo motor mounts, so the fan kept scraping the radiator shroud and one time even stopped and I started to overheat :(

So I put the stock e-fan back on but left the shroud off due to this fitment problem with the intake.

WTF?

I had an aftermarket intake and had no problem at all...

What are you mounting the fan to?

[!Zar!]

You keep the radiator shroud off.

If you were able to keep it on, then you keep the stock clutch fan being as how it works better than the efan.

The only reason you run the efan is when you can't keep the fan shroud.

[S14DB]

Did you only replace the motor mounts and not the tranny mount?

[Neejay]

WTF?

I had an aftermarket intake and had no problem at all...

What are you mounting the fan to?
Well, from the test fit, it looks like the upper part of the e-fan's shroud can rest on the upper radiator lip. This way, it seems to mount perfectly and cover the radiator...I wish there were actual pics of it mounted. The only guide I found was on an aftermarket Koyo + s14 radiator (the article you linked to).

Should it not rest on the lower radiator lip or even be level with it? I tried both and with it resting on the radiator, the e-fan sits too hight above the top of the radiator.
You keep the radiator shroud off.

If you were able to keep it on, then you keep the stock clutch fan being as how it works better than the efan.

The only reason you run the efan is when you can't keep the fan shroud.
Yes, I took the stock shroud off due to the stock clutch fan scraping the shit out of it. I test mounted the taurus fan with the stock e-fan off and clutch fan off (I'd planned on still running the stock clutch fan if there was room, which there was)
Did you only replace the motor mounts and not the tranny mount?
My tranny mount is filled with polyurethane.

I ended up just putting the stock e-fan back on + clutch fan with no shroud. My stock e-fan is wired to a switch in the cabin (bought the car this way). I drove around last night and didn't get any overheating, but this was like 70 something at night...not daytime + stop/go traffic.

[g6civcx]

Like I said before, I use an FAL 220, Koyo aluminium SR radiator, Racepak fan controller, and an override switch to turn on any time.

I'm running really really cool, like below 170. If I cruise a little bit it gets a little bit above 170 but comes back down to 165 really quickly.

I think it's amazing for a big V8. It's funny to see the exhaust glowing red hot but having water temp in the head hold 170.

I'm impressed by the fan/rad combo so far.

[Neejay]

Like I said before, I use an FAL 220, Koyo aluminium SR radiator, Racepak fan controller, and an override switch to turn on any time.

I'm running really really cool, like below 170. If I cruise a little bit it gets a little bit above 170 but comes back down to 165 really quickly.

I think it's amazing for a big V8. It's funny to see the exhaust glowing red hot but having water temp in the head hold 170.

I'm impressed by the fan/rad combo so far.
Yeah, it looks like I'll just have to wait until I get my RB25 swap done. I'll have a different radiator by then, and I'll have to change fans anyway (pusher).