Berkeley Protests Marines

[Jung918]

BERKELEY — Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.

That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted 8-1 to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue recruiting station "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders."

In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the Marines because of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. And it officially encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work of the Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.

In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a designated parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4 p.m.

Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.

The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year, having moved from Alameda in December 2006. For about the past four months, Code Pink has been protesting in front of the station.

"I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates said after votes were cast.

A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment.The resolution telling the Marines they are unwelcome and directing the city attorney
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to explore issues of sexual orientation discrimination was brought to the council by the city's Peace and Justice commission.

The recommendation to give Code Pink a parking space for protesting and a free sound permit was brought by council members Linda Maio and Max Anderson.

Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a measure on the November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches libraries or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the ballot.

Even though the council items passed, not everyone is happy with the work of Code Pink. Some employees and owners of businesses near the Marines office have had enough of the group and its protests.

"My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting) is bordering on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this stops."

An employee of a nearby business who asked not to be identified said Wednesday the elderly Code Pink protesters are aggressive, take up parking spaces, block the sidewalk with their yoga moves, smoke in the doorways, and are noisy.

"Most of the people around here think they're a joke," the woman said.

Wozniak said he was opposed to giving Code Pink a parking space because it favors free speech rights of one group over another.

"There's a line between protesting and harassing, and that concerns me," Wozniak said. "It looks like we are showing favoritism. We have to respect the other side, and not abuse their rights. This is not good policy."

Fran Rachel, 90, a Code Pink protester who spoke at the council meeting, said the group's request for a parking space and noise permit was especially important because the Marines are recruiting soldiers who may die in an unjust war.

"This is very serious," Rachel said. "This isn't a game; it's mass murder. There's a sickness of silence of people not speaking out against the war. We have to do this."

Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps when he took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the Marines high-tail it out of town.

"We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions of dollars on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're involved in a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary people to express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should be doing it."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_8127493

Do they even realize that the Marines do not set foreign policy.
I sent code menstruation a nice little e-mail and I will also be sending out senators a e-mail also.





UPDATE

BERKELEY, Calif. -- As six Republican senators devised a plan to yank $2.3 million in federal funding for Berkeley programs, the mayor of the famously liberal city apologized Wednesday for his hard stance against a Marine recruiting center.

http://www.nbc11.com/news/15245031/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

[DOOK]

any americans protesting against our armed forces should have their head examined. They are just doing their job, they don't choose what they are asked to do in 99.9% of the cases.

[steve shadows]

Oh go* i really F***king hate the idea that everyone who thinks this is the 1960s and that they are part of some global hipster movement seriously.

most of the damn marines would vote for Ron Paul and end the war in all reality. They are doing there job, maybe the ones protesting should start by GETTING a job in the first place.

[DOOK]

From experience I have found that most who are willing to protest the armed forces are the first to run and hide behind them if shit hits the fan. If I country were invaded these mother fuckers would change their tune now wouldnt they.

[azndoc]

"Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps when he took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the Marines high-tail it out of town."

What that means to me is that he couldn't cut it and had sand in his vagina.

That's all.

I never understood why people protest outside of military bases when I was in. Like we're the ones that start the wars or choose which war to fight in.

Seriously, get a clue people.

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

i go up to berkeley every year. if i go this year i am now gonna go to the recruiting station and say how much i loved being in the service!


go protest the people that make the dcisions, not the ones who follow orders cuz they have love and respsect for their country. even if it means protecting the exact freedoms that these people abuse for their own benefit!

[SINxSELEKTAH]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/sinxselektah/democrats.jpg

sorry....most appropriate for this thread IMO. to all the previous replies, i agree 100%

[steve shadows]

haha thats great alex

[fliprayzin240sx]

I dare somebody to show up during one of their protest to protest against the protesters....a nice Support The Troops banner or placard should be enough.

Fucking Hippies...i swear, sometimes I think theyre just bored and want to start shiet just to start something.

[kingkilburn]

You can be against war and violence but it is immoral to protest those who volunteer their own lives to defend your right to protest. It's like that women who goes around picketing funereal services of fallen soldiers and police officers. I hope her and her unpatriotic(I don't use that word lightly) family, and all those who are ungrateful for the sacrifices of those that serve, get what they deserve.

[ThatGuy]

Yeah, I'm used to people hating me for who I am.

Hate me because I'm a US Marine.
Hate me because I'm a Mod on Zilvia.
Hate me because I'm an asshole.

Doesn't really matter.

Marines are easy targets. We're just mindless, robotic, baby-killers.

The ignorance of our enemies has never really bothered me much. I mean some people actually think you have to kill a member of your own family to become a US Marine, along with many other myths about us. Fine by me. Unintelligent thinking like that has actually caused some people to surender on sight to Marines.

But when United States citizens act so mindless and uniformed, it's really sad. I mean, most times is the supposed intelligent sectors of this fine country (Colleges, Government Officials, Church Seniors, Etc) that perpetuate this ignorance. It's ridiculous.

Well, I suppose I should go lie down and take a nap now. I've just used my brain a whole lot typing this response, so I need a few days to relax and recharge both my braincells.

If you can't pick up on my sarcasm in parts of this post, you should probably just go grab a picket sign and join "The Revolution".

[codyace]

"I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates said after votes were cast.

Thst really frustrates me. If these shmucks realzied that if wasn't for the Marines, or the entire Service, that they wouldn't even have the simple right (along with many other things) to vote for dumb shit like this.

People are genreally ignorant, but this takes the cake. I hope some Federal lawyer smashes this.

FWIW: If something paranormal were to happen, and this area became overran with problems (of some sort or another), you know for darn sure they'd be asking the Military for help first.

[steve shadows]

The ignorance of our enemies has never really bothered me much. I mean some people actually think you have to kill a member of your own family to become a US Marine, along with many other myths about us. Fine by me. Unintelligent thinking like that has actually caused some people to surender on sight to Marines.

But when United States citizens act so mindless and uniformed, it's really sad. I mean, most times is the supposed intelligent sectors of this fine country (Colleges, Government Officials, Church Seniors, Etc) that perpetuate this ignorance. It's ridiculous.

If you can't pick up on my sarcasm in parts of this post, you should probably just go grab a picket sign and join "The Revolution".

Wow that is some of the most coherent and intellectually correct analysis from you on these issues.

Disception is the art of warfare. If Abdulla thinks you had to kill your mom to become a Marine, so be it, in fact make fake videos explaining this as fact as a moch recruitment video, then drop it in embassies in France in the muslim ghettos, it will spread like fire.

The Revolution is funded mostly by active military men, if your talking about Ron Paul.

[ThatGuy]

I'm not. If you notice I didn't spell "Revolution" with a backwards "LOVE". :keke:

I was referring to the revolution the Anti-Military folk are attempting.

I don't speak out on Government issues, because frankly, it's not really my place. I don't study government or even take a real active stance on it. Should I? Possibly. But until the day comes when I am active, there is no sense in me "talking out of my ass".

I approach Government discussions like I approach Religious discussions. I have my beliefs and my opinions, but I'm not out to convert anyone or change their minds.

[DRavenS13]

Those bitches can sit on a hot metal pipe. I am opposed to the war and I'm pissed off as hell that I've had 2 of my friends die over there (one in Iraq, one in Afghanistan) for a senseless war, but I totally support the troops that feel like they have a service to do, and they don't have a choice.

People also have the right to choose if they do want to go into the military, so who the fuck are they to stop them? If you don't like what's going on, go to the fucken White House and protest there. Go protest in front of the Capitol or go bitch out Reps. Don't fuck with people that are CHOOSING to go to the military- for whatever reason they feel like they need/want to go, then that's their choice. They're being counter-active to the causes they're supposedly trying to enforce.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Besides, if people got their minds set on joining the Corps, they will do it. Protesters there or not wouldnt really matter. And honestly, I would say this applies to a good amount of people who enlisted to be a devildog.

[DOOK]

being against the war and being against the troops are totally different. one is a matter of opinion, one is pure stupidity.

[hitman]

you guys are stupid. these people are fighting in your name, supposedly. if people dont want that on their conscience, they should say something about it to whoever they can. just because all you guys are arm chair internet politicians and apparently moral theorists, doesnt mean they are in the wrong for speaking up for themselves. how do you support your troops? "go troops!"?? wow... thats pretty impressive. veterans make up the largest percentage of homeless people. who knew that? exactly. nice job supporting your troops.

[Matej]

Where does it say they're not supporting the troops? They're just trying to protect their children from being swayed into dying for some rich old guys' cause.

[DOOK]

you guys are stupid. these people are fighting in your name, supposedly. if people dont want that on their conscience, they should say something about it to whoever they can. just because all you guys are arm chair internet politicians and apparently moral theorists, doesnt mean they are in the wrong for speaking up for themselves. how do you support your troops? "go troops!"?? wow... thats pretty impressive. veterans make up the largest percentage of homeless people. who knew that? exactly. nice job supporting your troops.

Where does it say they're not supporting the troops? They're just trying to protect their children from being talked into dying for some rich old guys' cause.

your ages speak louder than any mindless bullshit you just typed... go back to sucking on your mommas tits until you've been in the real world a while.

[Matej]

If I country were invaded these mother fuckers would change their tune now wouldnt they.
Stereotypical American living in a bubble response, and I'm sorry if my age offends you. Show me one mother who's happy when her child joins the armed forces. By the way I can care less about some protesters in Berkeley or the marines because this doesn't affect me in any way, I'm just pointing out that there are two sides to every argument.

[eastcoastS14]

^^ thats a stupid ass stradegy if you ask me....if someone wants to join then they are gonna join....the only thing this is gonna change is make them drive further to go to a recruiting office. Its just an office...its not like they are going door to door punking people into signing up for the Marines....theres no draft, its of your own free will, and when it comes down to it its a legitimate representation of a legitimate part of the US govt that has a right to be there if it wants. Its not a hate group like the KKK or something trying to recruit ppl, and by the mayor and city council trying to force the Marines out they are only enforcing their own beliefs and political agenda. Doesnt really seem like anyone is complaining about them being there except a small handful of people...and this shows total favoritism and really total ignorance.....and yes Im am a very liberal democrat, yes I am against the was, and yes I support the troops....this however, is horrible way to conduct politics and is pretty much taking a whiney bitch approach to what could be a legitimate issue

[DOOK]

Typical American living in a bubble response, and I'm sorry if my age offends you. Show me one mother who's happy when her child joins the armed forces.

you and your mommy would be running to hide behind marines if the country were invaded. Show me one mother who is happy when their child buys a street bike. Show me one mother who is happy when their child decides to take up skydiving as a hobby. that methodology is utterly mind numbing. Do you do everything mommy wants you to?

[kingkilburn]

you guys are stupid. these people are fighting in your name, supposedly. if people dont want that on their conscience, they should say something about it to whoever they can. just because all you guys are arm chair internet politicians and apparently moral theorists, doesnt mean they are in the wrong for speaking up for themselves. how do you support your troops? "go troops!"?? wow... thats pretty impressive. veterans make up the largest percentage of homeless people. who knew that? exactly. nice job supporting your troops.

Most homeless people are homeless due to mental illness. If state/federal government would stop cutting public health care most of them wouldn't be homeless.

You can take this from the son of a TWENTY year army vet, and on her behalf , when I say shut the fuck up.

The feds still deny agent orange and resist acceptance of PTSD diagnoses. Those people can no longer operate in society because they served their country. Now most of us turn our backs to they.

Please, if you are ignorant of the facts don't even bother forming an opinion.

[Matej]

^^ thats a stupid ass stradegy if you ask me....if someone wants to join then they are gonna join....the only thing this is gonna change is make them drive further to go to a recruiting office. Its just an office...its not like they are going door to door punking people into signing up for the Marines...
Yeah protesting the recruitment center is stupid, usually only people who are determined to join go to a recruitment center, I don't see how that's bad.

What I think is ridiculous is how the armed forces prey on high school kids, during my senior year and the summer after I graduated I was getting calls and brochures pretty much daily, and it was impossible to hang up on those guys.


you and your mommy would be running to hide behind marines if the country were invaded.
Dude grow up.

[ThatGuy]

My parents were both very proud of me when I joined the service.

Were they still worried/scared for me? Of course. But they didn't protest against the Marine Corps for my decision.

They call me every time something happens that could possibly cause me to have to deploy. I like that. They still worry/care about me. That's what parents should do. But they don't try to kick the recruiters out of the local station because I might have to go to war. That is a chance I agreed to when I VOLUNTEERED to serve for my country.

I didn't sign up to agree to every reason for every conflict. I signed up to do a job.

Now, unfortunately, some recruiters do lie. It's a fact. It's one of the reasons I don't care for many recruiters. However, I (and MOST of the Marines I work with/train) knew exactly what they were getting in to. It is very rarely I run in to someone who says "Man, I didn't expect this." My personal problem is with people who join the Marine Corps to pay for college, but are absolutely dead set against the possibility of going to war. If you don't want to fight, don't join the Corps. It is a fact that we will go places the other branches won't. We are still the only ones that the President can send anywhere he chooses without Congress agreeing.

[eastcoastS14]

Stereotypical American living in a bubble response, and I'm sorry if my age offends you. Show me one mother who's happy when her child joins the armed forces. By the way I can care less about some protesters in Berkeley or the marines because this doesn't affect me in any way, I'm just pointing out that there are two sides to every argument.

say what you want but the marines and every other branch of the military are out doing a shitty as job that no one else wants to do so you and I dont have to. I dont wanna go out and stand in a hotass desert....or get shot at or have RPGs shot at me...and im sure they dont want it either, but they go out and do it. Whether the war is right or wrong is a non-issue. Everyones mother worries about them....my mom worries about everything I do...nevermind if I was gonna join the marines...and every marine whose in Iraq has a mother that is worried. But they make the concious decision as a man or woman to leave their family behind for what they feel is a just cause....so you shouldnt be treating them and the recruiters like theyre over in Iraq punching babies.....FUCK OMG the recruiters are here.....now I cant control what my kids think and do!....recruiters call my house...I tell em no thanks, you know why? cause i dont wanna go...no one is forcing me to say yes....you dont wanna join walk past the office or hang up the phone....you know why you have that luxury? cause other motherfuckers are going in your place

[kingkilburn]

Also if any one has a problem with the recruitment policy protesting in front of the local office does nothing but upset the local recruiters. What the intelegent thing to do would be to write a letter to your congressman(you know, the one you VOTED for right. That's what gives you the right to complain any way.) and voice your opinion. If others feel the same then get a petition going.

If the city council had any brains they would have met with the head of the regional recruiting branch any way. They just want the attention.

[Matej]

Exactly.
When did I say I was against the troops? They're just doing their job and I have total respect for them.
Who I don't agree with is the old people up top sitting in their offices sending young men and women to die for some really unnecessary causes, while their own kids are attending the most prestigious universities.

As for recruiters, they're just telemarketers in uniform, I don't consider them troops.

And just because someone is against the war doesn't automatically mean they're troop-hating terrorists.

[steve shadows]

That is a chance I agreed to when I VOLUNTEERED to serve for my country.

I didn't sign up to agree to every reason for every conflict. I signed up to do a job.



Are you sure?

Are you sure they did not use Alien mind control and the Illuminati to force you without knowing it?

;)

[eastcoastS14]

Exactly, when did I say I was against the troops? They're just doing their job and I have total respect for them.
Who I'm against is the old people up top sitting in their offices sending young men and women to die for some really unnecessary causes, while their own kids are attending the most prestigious universities.

As for recruiters, they're just telemarketers in uniform, I don't consider them troops.

And just because someone is against the war doesn't automatically mean they're troop-hating terrorists.


lol yeah that wasnt really directed towards you haha...i think i started off in my head with something more having to do with your quote but went way off track haha :duh:

[murda-c]

Is it bad that i find this thread hi-larious?

[ThatGuy]

Is it bad that i find this thread hi-larious?

That would depend on what part of it you find humor in.

Even then, you being wrong would only be a matter of someone else's opinion.

[murda-c]

Iunno somehow i disagree with both sides.

Or rather neither side seems 100% right to me.

[ThatGuy]

So instead of stating you opinion on the matter, no matter which "side" of it you may be on...

...you just laugh about it?


Ok, just checking.

[Matej]

lol yeah that wasnt really directed towards you haha...i think i started off in my head with something more having to do with your quote but went way off track haha :duh:
My thing wasn't really directed at only you either, it's all good, by the way my dad was in the army for over 10 years, not the U.S. army but an army is an army, I don't want people to think I was raised on some hippie ideals or something.
I can understand where everyone is coming from and what their reasons are and that's why I don't like taking sides in arguments, I just don't like when arguments become one-sided and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon and it just turns into a big bash-fest (kind of like all those "ownage" threads that have been popping up on forums lately), and I know there's a lot of members on here and in the car community in general who are in the armed forces, so I'll shut up now haha.

[DOOK]

Dude grow up.

it's a simple fact, it has nothing to do with growing up. I work Special Ops. It is the people, in my personal experience, who complain the most, who are the first ones to run. Does that make sense? Your argument about the older rich people sitting in offices sending our young men and women to die while their own children are sitting at universities is valid, however, we put them in that office if they have the power to send our military out. That is a whole different argument, this one has to do with people picketing our military. It's not just this one recruiting office, it's people who hold signs outside of bases nationwide. It happens man, it really does.

[lucky7]

this is fucking pathetic...

reminds me of this ultra-sweet picture i found the other day.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o190/dane240/dmanliberals.jpg

dont get butthurt if you're a lib. you could take that part off, and it would still make complete sense in this particular situation.

[SimpleSexy180]

woooo. the era that poster shows (illustration) is the time when america was going down hill.

[kandyflip445]

Show me one mother who's happy when her child joins the armed forces.


That's more of a seperation anxiety I would think. I don't think I meet ONE parent of someone in the armed forces that wasn't proud of their kid. EVERY one of them was proud. You should see when graduating from boot camp parents cry from being proud.

I realize that you're trying to take another side of the arguement but talking of something you don't know entirely about is the same as talking out of your ass.

[lucky7]

woooo. the era that poster shows (illustration) is the time when america was going down hill.

down hill?? do elaborate please.

[airsoft]

They is ignant.

[DOOK]

They is ignant.

huh? try that again

[DRavenS13]

woooo. the era that poster shows (illustration) is the time when america was going down hill.

You mean because it's not going downhill now?

[Jung918]

You mean because it's not going downhill now?

No. We hit rock bottom. :eek3d:



Now, unfortunately, some recruiters do lie. It's a fact. It's one of the reasons I don't care for many recruiters. However, I (and MOST of the Marines I work with/train) knew exactly what they were getting in to. It is very rarely I run in to someone who says "Man, I didn't expect this."

"Man, I didn't expect this." I said it.

I disagree with you. All recruiters lie. If they didn't, the members in the armed force would be much lower.
Aother point...
Before I joined, I had friends that were in that told me not to join. They said that it sucked. I still joined because they couldn't really explain to me why it sucked so bad. It is an experience that can not be explained. My command sucked and my job sucked even more. I would have never expected the things that I have experienced. Would you have expected to get on the quarterdeck for your lock not being at zero?
Am I glad I did it? yeah.
Would I do it again? Probably not.

[andmattsayd]

They is ignant.

they really is...haha

[hitman]

Most homeless people are homeless due to mental illness. If state/federal government would stop cutting public health care most of them wouldn't be homeless.

You can take this from the son of a TWENTY year army vet, and on her behalf , when I say shut the fuck up.

The feds still deny agent orange and resist acceptance of PTSD diagnoses. Those people can no longer operate in society because they served their country. Now most of us turn our backs to they.

Please, if you are ignorant of the facts don't even bother forming an opinion.

ya, thats what im saying. military who are injured especially get fucked over, and most people dont know/care, yet claim to "support the troops". i never said they shouldnt be taken care of.

[drift freaq]

woooo. the era that poster shows (illustration) is the time when america was going down hill.

No actually it was a time when America had hit rock bottom and was coming back up. World War II brought the United States out of the depression. Everyone single man in the country wanted to fight and there were just reasons for it. Women went to work in the factories because we needed the workers. The whole damn country joined in in one form or another. Korea and Vietnam were police type affairs. To fight against the so called communist menace. Fact is Vietnam was a quagmire that had buried the French for 10 years and we should never have gotten involved.

Now Afghanistan was the Taliban and Al Qeada who actually attacked us on 9/11. I don't want to hear any of you stupid shits, start with that 9/11 was a government conspiracy bullshit, because if you believe that your a fucking idiot.

We had the right to go into Afghanistan and the World agreed and had no problem.
Now going into Iraq was uncalled for and Bushs little I want to finish daddy work shit.
Though I will say that we are in there and its not going to be something we are just going to get out of tomorrow. We have created the mess now we have to fix. For that I support our troops and our Military though I do not support the war.

[EDacIouSX]

any americans protesting against our armed forces should have their head examined. They are just doing their job, they don't choose what they are asked to do in 99.9% of the cases.

I have a problem with what you said. To be more specific, I mean this:

any americans protesting against our armed forces should have their head examined.

You are WRONG. Let me tell you what you MEANT to say.

any americans protesting against our armed forces should have their head cut off.

[ESmorz]

But seriously? Protesting the troops?

Code Pink... what kind of name is that.

Last time I checked soldiers had no say in there orders...?

idiots.

[hitman]

No actually it was a time when America had hit rock bottom and was coming back up. World War II brought the United States out of the depression. Everyone single man in the country wanted to fight and there were just reasons for it. Women went to work in the factories because we needed the workers. The whole damn country joined in in one form or another. Korea and Vietnam were police type affairs. To fight against the so called communist menace. Fact is Vietnam was a quagmire that had buried the French for 10 years and we should never have gotten involved.

Now Afghanistan was the Taliban and Al Qeada who actually attacked us on 9/11. I don't want to hear any of you stupid shits, start with that 9/11 was a government conspiracy bullshit, because if you believe that your a fucking idiot.

We had the right to go into Afghanistan and the World agreed and had no problem.
Now going into Iraq was uncalled for and Bushs little I want to finish daddy work shit.
Though I will say that we are in there and its not going to be something we are just going to get out of tomorrow. We have created the mess now we have to fix. For that I support our troops and our Military though I do not support the war.


actually, ive had some interest in these areas lately. specifically labor movements but also topics dealing with terrorist.
women were already working in factories before world war two, in great numbers too. also, not everyone came together for the war, there were a lot of strikes specifically wildcats during this time even though there were no-strike pledges by union officials. the unions, apparently on behalf of the workers (falsely) gave up overpay and other benefits in the interest of the war effort, but this didnt last long and wildcats were very regular.
on the "right" of invading afghanistan, some, albeit little debate is going on currently to whether or not this was the case. if you note the targets of 9-11 wtc and pentagon, while civilians were attacked, they arent quite civilian builds or serving in the interest of your average american.
if it was an attack on freedom, the statue of liberty isnt too far away...
what some people think is the attack on pentagon and wtc are attacks on the property of people who arent innocent for the oppression caused in the middle east by us imperialism, ie military leaders/planers/plans, the rich elite, military industrial complex, corporations, etc.

[Dirty Habit]

woooo. the era that poster shows (illustration) is the time when america was going down hill.

FUCK YEAH! We shoulda teamed up with Germany and got rid of the jews once and for all! WOOO!


:goyou:

[theoldap1]

I don't like this war like many other American's but F*CK. Respect Please

[02BRB20]

Your argument about the older rich people sitting in offices sending our young men and women to die while their own children are sitting at universities is valid, however, we put them in that office if they have the power to send our military out.

eh, I wouldnt say "we". 55% voter turnout in 04 w/ the 18-25 demographic being the weakest flipside being the 55+ age being the strongest.

Now Afghanistan was the Taliban and Al Qeada who actually attacked us on 9/11. I don't want to hear any of you stupid shits, start with that 9/11 was a government conspiracy bullshit, because if you believe that your a fucking idiot.


We gave al queda 6 billion dollars in 1989, government ties is why the government lies.

honestly, kudos to the berkeley kids. I WONT TRADE HUMANITY FOR PATRIOTISM

[lucky7]

you note the targets of 9-11 wtc and pentagon, while civilians were attacked, they arent quite civilian builds or serving in the interest of your average american.
if it was an attack on freedom, the statue of liberty isnt too far away...
what some people think is the attack on pentagon and wtc are attacks on the property of people who arent innocent for the oppression caused in the middle east by us imperialism, ie military leaders/planers/plans, the rich elite, military industrial complex, corporations, etc.

dude, seriously. they could have dropped bombs on a national forest for all i care. that is OUR home turf. everyone would still be pissed. even if it was smokey the bear instead of buildings full of people. is almost as if you're trying to justify it.....almost.


We gave al queda 6 billion dollars in 1989, government ties is why the government lies.

honestly, kudos to the berkeley kids. I WONT TRADE HUMANITY FOR PATRIOTISM

you dont actually feel this way......do you? i'd be embarrassed to say something like that in a public place..

[DOOK]

eh, I wouldnt say "we". 55% voter turnout in 04 w/ the 18-25 demographic being the weakest flipside being the 55+ age being the strongest.


Not that I can point fingers, because I have yet to vote in my life, I don't like the idea of picking the lesser of evils, but a lack of action on OUR part is just as bad as voting for one of them in all reality. By US not voting for someone else, it put who is in office now, in office.

[SimpleS14]

Not that I can point fingers

Yet your avatar shows this haha


OK...so I don't go OT....


Protesting against the Armed Forces is just wrong. Who would defend this country and its people if we don't have brave men and women that volunteer to do so?

[SHIFT_*grind*]

I'll echo the sentiments of most people here and say it's completely ridiculous to protest against branches of the armed forces.

The members of the U.S. Marines, Army, Navy, all of them are working to keep our ungrateful asses safe. Without them, there would be nothing keeping us out of harms way. We need the Marines. We need the Army.

Whether you live in the most conservative right-wing state in the union, or Hippietown, USA, you NEED people in the armed forces in order to perpetuate whatever lifestyle it is you're living. If people weren't joining the military, you wouldn't have the right to prance around in yoga poses in front of their local office like a fairy and tell them not to.

To protest the Marines, or any branch, is completely pointless. Like people have pointed out, the local recruiting office doesn't make policy decisions. They don't have a say in how many soldiers are going to die this month. If you're so vehemently against the war on Iraq and Bush's military agenda, go stand in front of the White House with your silly picket signs.

If you don't like it when Wendy's stops selling the Double Cheesy Bacon Whateverthefuck Melt, do you drive down the street and punch the drive-thru attendant in the face and yell at him to bring it back?

The Marines aren't to blame, the Army isn't to blame, the only parties to blame are the current political administration and, in turn, America itself. The millions of idiots who, in 2000, said "He's gonna give us a $300 tax rebate?! WOOHOO BUSH, you got my vote! I'm gonna buy me a hammock!!" (copyright David Cross =P )

Do I support the agenda that governs our military? No.
Do I support the fact that many armed forces members, after serving selflessly in Iraq and being medically discharged because of a serious injury, get sent packing with severely underestimated disabilities and end up going poor because they get almost no government compensation and can't find a job? Absolutely not.
Do I support the men and women who join? You bet your sweet ass, because I know we wouldn't be here doing what we're doing if they didn't.

[EDacIouSX]

what some people think is the attack on pentagon and wtc are attacks on the property of people who arent innocent for the oppression caused in the middle east by us imperialism, ie military leaders/planers/plans, the rich elite, military industrial complex, corporations, etc.

you fucking socialist. you're gay get off zilvia.

So you are saying that if they attacked a baseball stadium in new york then it REALLY would have been attack on the property of people??? give me a break, you are so fucking stupid. if you hate america so much go live in another country.

Honestly, what the hell do you mean by that statement? Did you even think that through??????????????????????????????????????????? ???? US imperialism, you sound like that garbage they spew at me in my college classroom.

[shmiddy]

i go up to berkeley every year. if i go this year i am now gonna go to the recruiting station and say how much i loved being in the service!


go protest the people that make the dcisions, not the ones who follow orders cuz they have love and respsect for their country. even if it means protecting the exact freedoms that these people abuse for their own benefit!

+100000000

"go protest the people that make the dcisions, not the ones who follow orders cuz they have love and respsect for their country. "

couldnt have said it better myself

[hitman]

no, im just saying thats what parts of society these buildings represent, economy and military/government, which is what has been fucking over people there for longer than weve all been alive. im not justifying it im merely showing the other side. america wants peace or something i guess but they wont change any of their policies that are disturbing the peace?

[kingkilburn]

I think what he is saying is that the buildings attacked were more symbolic than any thing else. They could have flown those planes into the densely populated neighborhoods of NY. The WTC was the most recognizable thing in the NY skyline, removing that had a larger impact than just the lives lost.

The way our country operates could easily described as an empire. We have a lot in common with the British of the 1800s. Instead of promising goods to the locals we promise protection. We also hold a lot of territory out side our boarders.
Now I wouldn't call us an empire but I can see why others would say that.

It is usually those who are quick to question other patriotism that are the most questionable. Just because his view point is different than yours doesn't mean he hates America.

[ms!3]

and then you have the democrats...

:sign:

[PhilthyS13]

The fucktards stood in the rain and protested their heads off...and no one was in the office. Code Pink annoys me. They don't realize that the summer of love was 40 years ago. Gravity has hit them. HARD.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/01/BA8PUQ8VK.DTL

Emboldened by this week's show of support by the Berkeley City Council, anti-war protesters on Thursday cranked up their noisy effort to throw the U.S. Marine Corps recruiters out of town, but in the pounding rain it was hard to tell who won the figurative battle of wills.

On one hand, the protesters mustered one of their biggest crowds yet - 40 people - to yell "Drive out the Bush regime" and other slogans outside the Marines' recruiting station on Shattuck Avenue. Hundreds of motorists honked in support as they passed.

On the other hand, there was nobody working at the recruiting station to hear these entreaties. The recruiting staff took the afternoon off.

And not only did the protesters get soaked to the bone in one of the heaviest downpours all week, several local business owners and their customers seethed under the aural onslaught of bullhorns and chanting from 3 to 5 p.m.

"They need a place to be heard, but it doesn't seem like this is the best one," complained Mike Mathis, who sometimes had to shout to be heard as his hair was being cut at the ZNS Beauty Station, next door to the Marines' office. "This is too small a place for a protest this loud."

Not in the minds of those doing the protest, it wasn't.

The spot was perfect and the noise justified, said Zanne Joy, who has been helping organize peace demonstrations at the recruiting station for four months with the women's anti-war group Code Pink. Anything legal is justified if it succeeds in persuading the Marine Corps to move its recruiting station out of Berkeley, she said, noting proudly that the Berkeley City Council agrees.

The council voted late Tuesday to give Code Pink a designated parking space directly in front of the recruiting station, as well as a sound permit for once-a-week protests. It also approved a separate resolution calling the military recruiters "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" and declaring that the office - which opened quietly in December 2006 - is not welcome in the city.

"We were shocked when we learned last fall that this recruiting station showed up here," Joy said. "It's an affront to the city and the people of Berkeley, who have always supported peace."

Since October, the weekly protests by Code Pink have mostly consisted of about a dozen people, so Thursday's crowd was a significant escalation. Joy and representatives from several other protest groups said they intend to mount demonstrations as many times a week as they can, even if the sound permit is good only once a week.

They also began circulating a petition on Wednesday to gather 5,000 signatures to put a measure on the November ballot that would require public hearings before military recruiting offices could open up near schools or homes.

Marine Corps officials did not return calls for comment.

However, ex-Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Hamilton showed up on his own to say he wholeheartedly supports the rights of the protesters to speak , but doesn't like their effort to silence the Marine Corps' voice in Berkeley.

"They don't seem to realize that this recruiting office is only for recruiting potential officers with college degrees, not kids right out of high school," said Hamilton, who drove in from Pleasanton to become the only on-scene counterpoint to the demonstration. "Marines are willing to die so these people can have their say, but I wish they understood the situation better."

Even the City Council is not of one voice on the matter.

The vote to award the Code Pink parking spot was 8-1, and the condemnation resolution was 6-3. On Thursday, the polarized emotions that went into those votes had not abated.

"I'm ashamed of my vote," said Councilwoman Betty Olds, who helped approve the parking spot but not the condemnation. "The protesters should have free speech - this is where Free Speech was born, after all - but to tell the Marines they are not welcome is shameful. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't even go for the parking spot."

Councilwoman Dona Spring, however, said she would love to step up the pressure even more against the Marine recruiting office.

"We're not condemning the men and women who serve, we are condemning the U.S. policy that is teaching the Marines and other military people to torture, oust other countries' political leaders and do other evil things."

[mRclARK1]

Just another group of people showing how ignorant and stupid they really are. It's almost as though they think a draft is happening. Anyone who wants to join the military (not even just the corps specifically) will do so, regardless of where the nearest recruitment office is. They're just making people waste gas if they close it, having to drive to the next closest one.

you guys are stupid. these people are fighting in your name, supposedly. if people dont want that on their conscience, they should say something about it to whoever they can. just because all you guys are arm chair internet politicians and apparently moral theorists, doesnt mean they are in the wrong for speaking up for themselves. how do you support your troops? "go troops!"?? wow... thats pretty impressive. veterans make up the largest percentage of homeless people. who knew that? exactly. nice job supporting your troops.

Go away.

Seriously. FYI A lot of zilvia members are active duty, or were at one point. So a lot of them are not just supporting the troops... They ARE the troops.

Also, yes veterans make up a percentage of the homeless population. What does that have to do with anything? Most of them are homeless because they're unable to hold down a job due to mental or physical trauma (often both), and they are homeless because 90% of the free population of this world doesn't remember/give a shit enough to, help in any way, take care of them. Are you going to tell me you donate to help disabled veterans? Ever even just bought a homeless vietnam vet lunch when he asked you for change outside the shopping mall?

[drift freaq]

no, im just saying thats what parts of society these buildings represent, economy and military/government, which is what has been fucking over people there for longer than weve all been alive. im not justifying it im merely showing the other side. america wants peace or something i guess but they wont change any of their policies that are disturbing the peace?

Oh so your one of those bleeding heart liberals that sees evil behind all doors. Rips on our economy as fucking over people and blames the goverment for everything. I bet you don't own any of your bullshit. You are so typical of the apathetic American these days that does not want take responsibility for their own actions. You don't like our country move somewhere else and see how their goverments treat people, how people get economically exploited. Oh and your going to say well thats because of the U.S. policy well that would would a uneducated asinine response, so I hope your not thinking it.
Fact is this, our country is not perfect, our goverment is not perfect. Though more people are better off in our country than most any other country in the world. Fuck, you feel we have problems go out and protest go out and vote. Study Poly Sci and get involved and become a politican to change shit. Otherwise you speak but you don't act.
I am sorry, but any of you young fucks that think the goverment and are economy are inherently evil have been smoking to much pot and need to stop. You sound like your ready to join Al Queada!!

To the fuck saying we gave Al Queada tons of money in the 80's it was not them directly but Afghanistan rebels who were fighting the Russians who invaded Afghanistan much the same way the current adminstration invaded Iraq. It was a semi stragic move on our part that back fired. Ya foreign policy is not a easy game. Thats life. Every damn country in the world has done fucked up shit . Does it justify our mistakes no. Does it state we are human and make mistakes yes.
If both of you are so fucking high and mighty as to take a tragedy like 9/11 and find justification from it for criticizing our country you do not deserve to live here. People died lots of them! Nothing condones a attack like that. It was a unjustified act of agression.

Oh but wait it hit the symbolic things of whats evil about the United States! Damn that statement sounds your like already a militant Islamic( and yes I paraphrased your statement which basically said what I wrote above). Why don't you go join up and then you can get killed being a myrtr thinking your going to heaven with lots of virgins.

Be happy you live in a Country were you can spout your bullshit without being arrested. They arrest people who talk like you do in quite a few countries in this current world( and don't say we do to because then you will show your just full of shit).
Be happy you can go out and work and become successful and possibly rich. A lot of countries that oppurtunity does not exist.

Oh but its all evil and no good and America is despicable right?
Thats why Immigrants still come here from all over the world because its better.

Fucking stupid ass complacement Americans who have to have everything on a silver spoon and take their basic freedom and oppurtunity for granted.

[PhilthyS13]

Take it from Clint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMr1d1Wbg_w

[Jung918]

Citizens of Berkeley, Calif., may have thought the City Council went too far last year when it passed a proclamation in favor of the purple "teletubbies" character Tinky Winky, but earlier this month they may have been equally surprised to see a council member try to ban wireless phone use by bicyclists.

http://www.wirelessweek.com/biking-talking-ban-a-bust.aspx?terms=


They seriously need something more productive to do.

UPDATE:

Supporters, protesters wage a war of words over Berkeley recruiting station

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/18/BA54SRJLE.DTL&tsp=1

[Andrew Bohan]

it should be a law that everyone in berkeley has to own a shovel and dig until the whole city sinks into the bay.

oakland too.

fuck both those places.

[PhilthyS13]

it should be a law that everyone in berkeley has to own a shovel and dig until the whole city sinks into the bay.

oakland too.

fuck both those places.

What do you have against Cokeland? Without it, we wouldn't have MC Hammer or Too Short.

[Andrew Bohan]

ok

and? :mepoke:

[Jung918]

you have to pray just to make it today. whoooooOOooOo

[jeffsm3]

wow i just read all of that... im fucking speechless! i love the marine corps.. was an still am a marine.. and ill tell you about my job.. i was one of those ground pounders part or STA plt. i loved my job but more importantly i loved the guys that lived in the shit holes of the world with me. Those same guys are the ones that would not leave my side for anything.. through rain, hot desert, and bullets.. THATS why i did what i did.. not for any hidden agenda by the GOV. protesting the recuiters offices is bullshit..

And to the fucktand that said a recruiter is not a job.. my god ur an idiot. anyone can be a recruiter. Its like a vacation while your working. You get to look nice and tell people how it is...

now that im out i think about all the things that i did while i was in, and all the other guys that where in before me and what they went through. All for YOU so YOU can live the way YOU do.. So you can talk the way YOU talk...

Im just gonna stop cuz this thread really pissed me off.. and i cant even get my thoughts out..support the guys out there they need it.. i apologize for not making any sense if thats the way it came out..

[hitman]

you didnt even say one important thing besides the fact that you are a reactionary.

[Andrew Bohan]

i was not ever in the military, i am not now in the military, and i have no desire to be in the military in the future, and i still think this whole thing is stupid.

so it's not just military folks who think it's stupid.

the marine corps is an organization that needs more members, so they set up a recruiting station. they seek to convince people to join the marines...fine.

code pink dislikes war and the military and the federal government in general, so they protest a recruiting station and annoy the shit out of the neighbors. AND it was backed by the city. pointless waste of time. find something more constructive. there are even better ways to protest...like in front of the US capital or the pentagon or something. but a recruiting station? to me that just says they are too lazy to get real about it.

and they are ignorant. one of them said the marines are recruiting soldiers. last i checked that's what the army does. the marines recruit...get this--MARINES.

[airsoft]

and they are ignorant...

[QUOTE=andmattsayd;1805555]they really is...haha

Agreed, ignant people.

[PhilthyS13]

ok

and? :mepoke:

Apparently you've never heard of blowjob betty...

[PhilthyS13]

They seriously need something more productive to do.

UPDATE:Supporters, protesters wage a war of words over Berkeley recruiting station
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...RJLE.DTL&tsp=1

That's from October.

[jeffsm3]

you didnt even say one important thing besides the fact that you are a reactionary.


your right i am reactionary to idiots.... as i stated im speechless this thinking just blows my mind.. go do some time in military perticulary in a hostile environmet... come back and tell me how you think.. then talk all the shit you want..

[Gnnr]

Oh go* i really F***king hate the idea that everyone who thinks this is the 1960s and that they are part of some global hipster movement seriously.

Damn do I agree! They're so eager to protest anything and everything that they don't know what the fuck they're really angry at and hold some half researched biased point of view (they don't look at both sides of the issue) and they run with their ignorance. what the fck!?

[PhilthyS13]

Now they chained themselves to the office. There are pics of people pushing through them (I love it).

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/02/BALTUQKOE.DTL

[articdragon192]

Wow, they want to train you to kill babies. Fucking wow!

Fucking owned lol
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/02/02/mn_marines02_181_pc.jpg

[Andrew Bohan]

i told my mom about this, and she goes "oh yeah i'm part of code pink."

i almost punched her through the phone


jk, love you mom :angel:

[lucky7]

isnt there some sort of 'issue' if these guys are preventing marines from doing their jobs? like, do they have the authority to fuck shit up if need be? i would hope yes. cause i can only imagine their frustration looking at those pictures. that picture above. that old ass was blocking his way to the door. he said GTFO of my way, nub. seriously. if i were a city official, or a judge or something. i'd put their asses in jail for a day or 2. ask them how they like having their freedom taken away? im seriously glad i didnt move to so cal in '02. i'd be the mother fucker up there fucking with those people [the ones in orange, obviously]. and somehow i'd be getting arrested.

[Jung918]

Wow, they want to train you to kill babies. Fucking wow!

Fucking owned lol
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/02/02/mn_marines02_181_pc.jpg

any Marine knows who that guys is.... hahahahah

please don't generalize norcal and socal.

[EDacIouSX]

didnt code pink faggots vandalize that office??? I heard they had red hand prints all over the place.. i guess they dipped their hand in paint and did it. i heard from my dad. he heard it off the news, im too lazy to look up an article.

[KA-T_240]

This looks like something the big biker gang that goes to all the funerals needs to visit.

Someone should go park a car in the code pink spot!

[Jung918]

^ how about a tank? that would be tight.

In addition to marching on the Berkeley City Council on February 12th, the next regularly scheduled meeting, several Marine veterans groups are planning to jump aboard their motorcycles and join us in protest.



SIGN THE PETITION TO SUPPORT THE MARINES
http://www.moveamericaforward.org/index.php/MAF/Petition/Berkeley2008/

[PhilthyS13]

Don't these people have jobs?

[SmogSUX]

Haha Code Pink = a bunk of bitchy old women begging for attention. I'm sure if anyone tried to protest their protest in a small group they'd be broken up for not having a permit or some lame crap....I agree with most everyone here though: Why protest against those who VOLUNTEER to protect their rights to do anything...

My only complaint with the recruiter stations is that I've been called at least 15-20 times so far...if I decide to join the armed forces I'll stop by and sign up, no need to call me that many times trying to explain why I'm stupid for not joining...who knows I just may join! Making countless phone calls to me has nothing at all to do with my decision though @[email protected] just annoys me.

If only the world was like GTA.....toss a grenade in the crowd of bitchy old women...