F20C in an S chassis

[greddyguy]

has it been done?

i know they've been swapped into numerous AE's

ive kinda been wanting to swap one of those high revving monsters into my s13

lets see what you got!

[zx3nismo]

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0712_impp_project_s13k_f20c_powered_nissan_240sx/index.html


Shifter placement is :ghey:

[s13coupe805]

it's been done by ben schawrtz in his sears s13 vert, it was on the cover of super street a cpl months ago

[K_style]

my friend has f20c laying down in garage...
trying to figure out how to put it in 89 fastback..

i will ask him what he is upto..

[bejota180sx]

oh please god mercyful dont let this turn into another why honda engine when u can have a sr20...

i believe its a original idea if you do try it make a write up on everything with things that actually matters and not just pics of how it looks before and after like the magazine did...

[s13coupe805]

this be an excellent idea, that motor is awesome. i like weird swaps into cars.

[greddyguy]

im all FOR swapping an f20c into my 240. ive been thinking about it alot lately. because spring and warm weather are coming...which means i can start working on my car alot more.

+1 for weird swaps

[norcal_black240]

I think a f20c engine in any 240 would be awesome. Good hp, na power, revs to 9,000 rpm, and the reliability factor. It might not be worth the time but if it was done props to whoever did it and I would be jelous of whoever got to drive that car around.

[yarou]

If you could do it, then by all means. The only real argument is that hp/dollar isn't very realistic. But when money doesn't become a problem, the haterade flows. It's definitely a neat engine, and I love it in my 02' s2k. Could be a lot cooler in a lighter older-I-don't-care-about-my-car chassis, I think there's a couple threads about this already too. Search and you'll find the argument

[FusionR240sx]

I think a f20c engine in any 240 would be awesome. Good hp, na power, revs to 9,000 rpm, and the reliability factor. It might not be worth the time but if it was done props to whoever did it and I would be jelous of whoever got to drive that car around.

yea na power.
but the guy that did it and boosted it i thought was a COMPLETE WASTE of money besides the "o shit" factor about it.
who cares if it revs to 9k.

fully built SR revving to 8500 will be half the money. and half the time. but then again half of the "o shit" factor.

but w/e.

it's cool..

[Creizai]

Rather put a sr in a s2k and piss off the honda hard parkers. Use the F20 to sell to some guy in a corolla for a stupid price and SR + stack gauge setup the s2k.

[firelizard]

I've heard that the best part of the F20 is how much fun it is to be able to safely wring it out to such high RPM

In 240 with decent suspension, I reckon you could have that same kind of experience, only with a roof. Unless you get a convertible. Then I guess you just built yourself an S2000 :P

I'm typically always in favour of neat swaps, even if the actual power/$ ratio isn't ideal. It's nice to see the advances in fabrication.

[DOOK]

The F20 is a great idea.... if you're into a torqueless piece of shit motor.

[hustlervibes]

The F20 is a great motor... Just lacks a TON of torque which the 240 (KA) has and thats why I came back to my 240 after owning an 01 S2000. Just gotta turbo the KA to have some power.

[LA_phantom_240]

The F20C is an incredible motor, whether some of us will admit it or not. There is a lot of aftermarket support, and it has the infamous reliability of the Honda badge. I will have to admit, Honda makes some stout motors.

[sunnys14]

Sure the F20c has more HP than TQ, but then again, how much TQ does a SR20DE have?

[DOOK]

Sure the F20c has more HP than TQ, but then again, how much TQ does a SR20DE have?

I wouldn't swap out a KA for an SR20DE either.

[burnsauto]

bleh. def. not my thing....if i wanted a honda engine, i'd buy a honda. screw all this wow factor bs with "interracial engine swaps."

...call me old fashion, i dont care.

[smelly240]

its not a bad swap - its just kinda doin it to do it i think.

i mean, im down for whatever - do what u like... just all these swaps seem like they're just going out of their way to be different (its good to be different - even if its not better, as long as u do it for a reason)

What im tryin to say is - if u like it do it, if u dont - then dont do it.

i like it personally, but i would never do it.

i kinda dont know how to word how i feel - hopefully someone gets me.

[ChicagoS14]

Actually I have seen a car that had an FC engine in it for sale way before this article came up. I guess if you have the funds for it sure why not.... but if your concerned about the head issues why not build a KA, lol its got bucket style lifters and if you think those suck then look at RBs!!!

[ChicagoS14]

Sure the F20c has more HP than TQ, but then again, how much TQ does a SR20DE have?

I drove my friends F20C S2K.... and lets just say the torque is on NATIONAL BACKORDER.... damn thing pulls but you feel like your not moving..... sure the 9K redline is great and the sound of a VTAK is :rawk:, but the fact of the matter is theres not replacement for torque and the F20C lacks it a lot!

[S13Boosts]

V TAC!!!! har har .....

[boost_it7]

If you've got the green, then this could be a pretty cool swap, but it seems like it would be expensive and totally change the feel of your car. Obviously from the previous posts, most S-chassis folks like torque, and a high-winding Honda won't deliver that. This isn't like dropping an F20 into a hachi, which already lacks torque. It just seems like the car would be less fun unless you threw some money at the motor.
Throw ITB's and some dirty NA cams on there though, and it's a whole different story.

[justaKAiswear]

Its only for the wow factor. When looking at specs and cost, this motor doesnt compare to the SR, RB, or even LSx..... That last guy would be about the only interracial swap I would approve of...

[greddyguy]

of course its for the WOW factor, what swap isnt.

[silver_s13]

The F20 is a great idea.... if you're into a torqueless piece of shit motor.

:werd: F20 are ghey. HP is worthless without torque


F20=:ghey:

[sideview_180sx]

you do realize you complain about F20c not having torque, have you forgotten rotary-power as well. As I said in another F20/F22 thread. if you wanna do it, so be it. if not. shut the hell up and quit bitching. y not help the guy out. Show some enthusiasm. instead of some fucking gossip-bitches in the salon.

Considering on the west coast 3 S2ks have some of the fastest times on the road courses out here. i'd be curious how well the s-chassis could use the s2k power plant in regards to being as fast if not faster. Hondas aren't straight-line freeway motors, you know they like the NA small power band of tight courses.

BTW if you aren't that good of a driver, you will want to rely on the power, if you are a fast driver you rely on the corner speeds.

[yarou]

you do realize you complain about F20c not having torque, have you forgotten rotary-power as well. As I said in another F20/F22 thread. if you wanna do it, so be it. if not. shut the hell up and quit bitching. y not help the guy out. Show some enthusiasm. instead of some fucking gossip-bitches in the salon.

Considering on the west coast 3 S2ks have some of the fastest times on the road courses out here. i'd be curious how well the s-chassis could use the s2k power plant in regards to being as fast if not faster. Hondas aren't straight-line freeway motors, you know they like the NA small power band of tight courses.

BTW if you aren't that good of a driver, you will want to rely on the power, if you are a fast driver you rely on the corner speeds.

ASM s2000, fastest FR N/A lap around tsukuba, 58 seconds

Deserves respect from more than just the honda crowd, for sure

[blownmotor]

4G63 w/ TD06SH stroked to 2.3L would be a better swap

[yarou]

4G63 w/ TD06SH stroked to 2.3L would be a better swap

I hear that ecotec motor is jazzy, seriously. There has to be fucked up solstices/skys out there

[ayuaddict]

yea so would a fucking JGTC spec VQ.

oh im sorry, i meant "super GT" or some retarded politically correct name.

hey wait, how about twin fucking Rolls Royce Trent 877s?

[Antihero983]

The F20 is a great idea.... if you're into a torqueless piece of shit motor.

"horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"
-carrol shelby.



and im suprised that a freak s13 (because lets face it the S13 is always the guinea pig before the s14 gets it) with a rotary out of an RX7 hasn't popped up somewhere.....

i like the F20C personally, but i think its better suited where honda intended it to go in the first place. in a S2000.

[g6civcx]

The F20 is a great idea.... if you're into a torqueless piece of shit motor.

Not to pick on you personally, but compared to my V8, all 4-cylinders, including SR/KA/FC/etc. are torqueless. I have more torque at 1,500 RPM than peak torque on an SR.

Does that make the SR a torqueless POS because a V8 has more torque, or is there something else that makes the motor a POS?

[smelly240]

why all the hate - hondas are good cars and I work on a lot of them... when you can slam 10psi down a stock 150K b series and have it make nice power for 100K more miles - I repsect it.

if he likes it - let him do it... its not ur time or money

i say if its really what you want to do do it...

[bejota180sx]

to the jerk off who gave me negative rep for talking bad about honda engine LEARN TO READDDDDDDDDD i said i was hoping that dumbasses like YOU dont start saying which engine is better... how the hell did i talk bad about the honda engine? by saying that i hope people take this post in mature performance way and not be like little kids fighting which power ranger is better?


and yeah again like i say +1 for doing something original with a S chassis, sr20det are one of the best engines made i own one for godsake i know that they can take on s2000 in somewhat stock form cause my friend owns one... but i like the idea of having something new and not only diferent but went from a good engine to another good engine and not a crap one with no potential just to be "diferent"

[S13Boosts]

to the jerk off who gave me negative rep for talking bad about honda engine LEARN TO READDDDDDDDDD i said i was hoping that dumbasses like YOU dont start saying which engine is better... how the hell did i talk bad about the honda engine? by saying that i hope people take this post in mature performance way and not be like little kids fighting which power ranger is better?


and yeah again like i say +1 for doing something original with a S chassis, sr20det are one of the best engines made i own one for godsake i know that they can take on s2000 in somewhat stock form cause my friend owns one... but i like the idea of having something new and not only diferent but went from a good engine to another good engine and not a crap one with no potential just to be "diferent"

stop complaining about rep.

[bejota180sx]

im not complaining i dont care about my friggin rep i say stuff joking or something that is funny where i live and some douch bag that doesnt get it somewhere else gives me bad rep, who cares... btw


who cares if hondas are torqueless engines they hit the same friggin numbers we do and still drift (if thats your problem) with no problem,
and yeah like g6civcx said does that mean that if i take a 69 charger engine you would like it? it has torque for more than one sr20det engine... speaking about torque and hp who cares the engine is a great engine, revs high with no problem in stock form, hard to get to higher HP but who cares in stock form it can take on most modded engines... great engine + great chassis = great fun...

sr20dets are good engines but theyre not the only engine on the planet for god sakes where not comparing sr20det to f20c where talking about how to do it... who cares what engine is better its all PERSONAL APPEAL...

[drift freaq]

yea so would a fucking JGTC spec VQ.

oh im sorry, i meant "super GT" or some retarded politically correct name.

hey wait, how about twin fucking Rolls Royce Trent 877s?


HEHEHEHE I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the VQ. Lets just say extreme advantage's to putting in a VQ over a F20. Now do not get me wrong a F20 is a bad ass engine for a NA 2 liter. Though considering the weight of the VQ is as light as a SR. The only heavy part is the beefier transmission. The VQ has tons more torque and revs quite well, though the F20 will rev higher. You will wind up spending more cash dropping in a F20 than a VQ. IMO

As far as the SR being a great engine it is. With one big problem, a we cheaped out on the valvetrain, because we were trying to keep costs down. That is the SR's only downfall.
Anyways this whole topic has been covered before and this thread is going down the same road . To the OP do a search and you shall reap rewards.

[Ca_laurier]

i still don't see why you would put a f20c into a s chassis

for 1 if you want a high reving motor get a sr20de and build it with some killer high compression pistons.

OR you can just do the sr20det and call it a day. fuck my prelude kept up with a s2k with 2 fat asians in it. thats sad cause the motor is only a horse power monster but its just can't take the weight

[dorkidori_s13]

i dont think one person has bothered mentoning a very LARGE overlooked point

SRXX (16,18,20) series engine was intially engineered and built in late 80s...early 90s

F2X (20,22) series engine was intially engineered and built in late 90s...early 2000s

that article kinda pissed me off just due to how a bit ONE SIDED it sounded...and this thread is almost the same way...not trying to compare and contast engines with an argument in mind...but even TRYING to compare these two motors in that article the way they did was disgusting and rather ignorant on their part..."oh i cant tell you how much i dislike SRs cause ive snapped rocker arms cause i cant build a fukin head the right way blah blah blah so i threw a honda motor in my 240"

now dont get me wrong the F2X series motors are wonderful motors and honda does an AWESOME job at engineering its motors and cars...sometimes a bit better than nissan does in some respects...but the time gap between the engineering of these 2 engines seems to be a factor people missed completely in that article

[DOOK]

Not to pick on you personally, but compared to my V8, all 4-cylinders, including SR/KA/FC/etc. are torqueless. I have more torque at 1,500 RPM than peak torque on an SR.

Does that make the SR a torqueless POS because a V8 has more torque, or is there something else that makes the motor a POS?

you're comparing apples to oranges here though. I will be the first to admit a stock LSx is a far superior motor performance wise than a stock SR, I've got my roots in muscle. But displacement for displacement the honda F20c is a sluggish motor, pure and simple. Even honda fanatics will admit it.

[smelly240]

if you've driven a 2 liter s2k you'll agree its a car you gotta drive like you hate it... I mean really beat the piss out of it.

for the record the ASM S2000 is 4wd...

[g6civcx]

But displacement for displacement the honda F20c is a sluggish motor, pure and simple. Even honda fanatics will admit it.

Are you running in a class that has displacement limitations?

[DOOK]

Are you running in a class that has displacement limitations?

nope, I haven't autoXed in a few years period. For the money on an F20c swap, i'd get LS1/T56 personally. If I had it to do over again, my S13 would have been that exact setup instead of the SR and all the money that was put into it. My point with the displacement comments was that the F20 doesn't outperform a stock KA so it doesn't warrant itself as a smart option.

[Nikeboy355]

for the record the ASM S2000 is 4wd...
No it isn't... It's RWD... And it's really fast!...

The motor position is modified a little and it's running a sequential transmission... It's one of the most developed S2000s out there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCqWu-1lyUg

http://www.tommychang.net/uploaded_images/tsb-04-714043.jpg

The street version of this car is rumored to be coming to Buttonwillow Raceway for time attack this year...

[yarou]

for the record the ASM S2000 is 4wd...

No, no it isn't.

[K_style]

i dont think one person has bothered mentoning a very LARGE overlooked point

SRXX (16,18,20) series engine was intially engineered and built in late 80s...early 90s

F2X (20,22) series engine was intially engineered and built in late 90s...early 2000s

that article kinda pissed me off just due to how a bit ONE SIDED it sounded...and this thread is almost the same way...not trying to compare and contast engines with an argument in mind...but even TRYING to compare these two motors in that article the way they did was disgusting and rather ignorant on their part..."oh i cant tell you how much i dislike SRs cause ive snapped rocker arms cause i cant build a fukin head the right way blah blah blah so i threw a honda motor in my 240"

now dont get me wrong the F2X series motors are wonderful motors and honda does an AWESOME job at engineering its motors and cars...sometimes a bit better than nissan does in some respects...but the time gap between the engineering of these 2 engines seems to be a factor people missed completely in that article

+1 for you !! .

[sideview_180sx]

you are all idiots. go back to your 4cyl nissan motors and those with v8 swaps. come back to me when you can be like carluch running VQ w/haltech in ur s13. Or you swap in an F20 into your car.

Thread is dumb like the biased idiots filling it with haterade. Not one person mentions a factual explanation of why an F20/F22 is better/worse then SR. All the opinionated bullshit is like the damn political campaigns. Fuck opinions and hearsay I want facts.

[smelly240]

i stand corrected :P

[bejota180sx]

you are all idiots. go back to your 4cyl nissan motors and those with v8 swaps. come back to me when you can be like carluch running VQ w/haltech in ur s13. Or you swap in an F20 into your car.

Thread is dumb like the biased idiots filling it with haterade. Not one person mentions a factual explanation of why an F20/F22 is better/worse then SR. All the opinionated bullshit is like the damn political campaigns. Fuck opinions and hearsay I want facts.


thank youuuuuuuuuu at last someone who thinks how i do, sr are great so are f20 tell me WHY NOT? what if i want a stock NA engine and not want a sr20de? then why isnt f20 a good decision? sr20de isnt the only friggin engine out there...

[burnsauto]

boy how this thread has kinda steered in a different direction than when the OP threw the idea out there.

no engine is better than another. each has its own downfalls...nothings perfect. saying a particular engine is the best, or better than another...is like saying vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate..there's no "right" answer.

engines have too many factors to come to a conclusion like that.
-personal taste
-budget
-quality of parts used
-QUALITY OF THE BUILD
-combination of parts
-condition of the block, head, etc.


this is turning into the classic ford vs chevy argument...pointless.

if you like an engine, and it is possible to use it, fine...by all means, its your car-do whatever the hell you want. if you want to use solid rubber tires, by all means - knock yourself out.... its your time/money/energy.

whenever you make an opinion about an engine, it has to be a case by case situation...no ballparking assumptions because you had one positive/negative experience with a few of them. sometimes things come out and surprise you..

[yarou]

thank youuuuuuuuuu at last someone who thinks how i do, sr are great so are f20 tell me WHY NOT? what if i want a stock NA engine and not want a sr20de? then why isnt f20 a good decision? sr20de isnt the only friggin engine out there...


Like I said earlier in the thread, the only REAL argument here is hp/dollar. Some people will blab about torque, feel, whatever, we all have different preferences. but hp/dollar is the big ticket here, and for that alone the available engines for a similar price would be better to many. VQ, LS1, the list goes on.

[PoorMans180SX]

Do it.

It'd be like a bigger Corolla.

Sounds like fun to me.

Or just put a VQ in. Personally sounds like a better idea. So good, in fact, that I plan on putting one in mine.

[g6civcx]

For the money on an F20c swap, i'd get LS1/T56 personally. If I had it to do over again, my S13 would have been that exact setup instead of the SR and all the money that was put into it. My point with the displacement comments was that the F20 doesn't outperform a stock KA so it doesn't warrant itself as a smart option.

You keep flip flopping your post. First it was torque, then displacement, now money, but back to displacement.

I'm just trying to follow any particular person's train of thought in this post. It's impossible.

:confused:

[DOOK]

You keep flip flopping your post. First it was torque, then displacement, now money, but back to displacement.

I'm just trying to follow any particular person's train of thought in this post. It's impossible.

:confused:

All are my arguments for the record, let me summarize:

1. Motor lacks in torque SEVERELY in my opinion.
2. My displacement comment was purely based on it not being impressive to me compared to other motors of similar size.
2. It would be an expensive swap, one where the money spent does not at all justify the performance gained when compared to what you could have for the same amount of money.

Curiously, i am wondering if you are a fan of the F20c drive train and the aforementioned swap to it in an S chassis. If so, what is your reasoning?

[g6civcx]

All are my arguments for the record, let me summarize:

1. Motor lacks in torque SEVERELY in my opinion.
2. My displacement comment was purely based on it not being impressive to me compared to other motors of similar size.
2. It would be an expensive swap, one where the money spent does not at all justify the performance gained when compared to what you could have for the same amount of money.

Curiously, i am wondering if you are a fan of the F20c drive train and the aforementioned swap to it in an S chassis. If so, what is your reasoning?

My rebuttal:

1. How much torque is enough? If you're relying on this argument alone, V8s > *.

2. Again, how valid is this argument if you're not limited by a sanctioning body?

2 (second one). How much $ is too much? You can cut a lot of corners and get a junkyard SR, or you can teardown and build up an SR properly.

I personally am not a fan of any particular drivetrain or chassis. It depends on the owner.

Somebody who can tune Hondas really well won't do as well with a Nissan, and vice versa.


For example, if I ran in a class that limits engine size to small block V8s, I can debunk all 3 of your arguments:

1. I have well over 300 ft-lbs of torque at 1,500 RPM.
2. I'm within the rules since it's smaller than a big block.
2. I can get a new crate engine longblock from GM for $1,500.

On top of that, all my parts are dirt cheap, easy to find, and easy to "tune". I also like cast iron blocks for strength and ability to bore to next piston size up. It doesn't weigh any more than a KA.

No one will agree with me if they don't value money, driveability, downtime, and tuning, or if they value brand name or "new technology".

[DOOK]

I couldn't agree more and would rather have a small block any day of the week. You keep throwing out that V8s are better than a 4 cylinder like i disagree with that... we agree on that point my friend, believe me. I think my next project will be an LS1/LS6 hybrid on an engine stand until i decent what I want to drop it in, I'm kind of thinking I wanna try an FC RX7 this time around, or maybe try and shoehorn it in a Z32.

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

Rather put a sr in a s2k and piss off the honda hard parkers. Use the F20 to sell to some guy in a corolla for a stupid price and SR + stack gauge setup the s2k.
amen to that +1 on that one or throw a sr in a CRX would work to lol:keke:

[PoorMans180SX]

My vote is this:

VQ30DE from a Maxima.

Built bottom end.

Big cams.

Ported/VQ35 heads.

Valve springs/valves/retainers.

Standalone/Tune.

Rev it out to 9k like you mean it.

[sr20boostn20]

hands down the f20c has on of the best flowing stock heads on the market today. i also believe that it has the most hp per litre n/a.

but as it was already said the sr came way before the f20. they are both great motors theres no doubt.

there is a magazine called like import project, or project import car. they have been having like a month to month how to guide on swapping an f20 into a s13

[dynamicck]

how about....whatever you get cheaper.
SR this...F20 that... end of the day...it's all about $$$$.

Get whatever motor/trans/setup you can cheapest.

That S13 vert went F20C because it was the cheapest route for him. Almost free motor/trans and turbo kit.
I'll take free-fifty-free any day.