The Auto Industry thread

[exitspeed]

We get into a lot of good discussions on here about what's happening in the automotive industry; future vehicles, new features, who sucks and why, etc.

The first topic I'd like to bring up is one that most people on here aren't all that crazy about, but there's just so much going on with the mid-size sedan market right now, that I just feel I have to fill you in. New Accord (which is actually in the full-size sedan segment now), Camry is in it's second year of their redesign, new Mazda 6 is on the way, etc.

But specifically I want to talk about what is going on in the domestic arena. GM, Ford, and Chrysler. One of them has done a complete 180 and the other two are in bad, bad shape.

The Malibu is one of the brightest shining stars of the industry right now. It's getting critical acclaim, consumer acclaim, winning awards, and breaking sales expectations. Well done on the Generals part. Their plan was well thought out and executed perfectly. It's a simple formula really. Good looks on the outside, class leading fit and finish on the inside, and fuel efficiency.

Ford with it's "New Taurus" and Chrysler with it's Sebring on the other hand...not so much.

Both are utter and complete failures. So much so that Chrysler is performing emergency surgery on the car and a complete redesign is due NEXT YEAR. Not a mid-cycle face lift and COMPLETE REDESIGN. They are actually pulling engineers away from other projects just to work on the new design. That's bad.

Ford's Mulally said at a press conference in Detroit recently that they are doing the same thing with the new Taurus. Again, not good. This from a car at one time was the #1 selling car in America.

The problem here isn't one person unfortunately. There are numerous people involved with giving the "green light" to these terrible designs. Honestly...there's a lot of talent out there. I'd get rid of all the main people involved. I'd get Trump in there just to say, "Your FIRED.". at some point you have to just say enough is enough. We need to go in a different direction.

The mid-size segment is the second largest segment next to full size pick-up trucks here in America. So there's a lot at stake.

Both Chrysler and Ford need new bold, exciting designs. Ford could easily benefit from their Euro lineup vehicle designs. Pull a Saturn/Opel move. It worked wonders for Saturn.

Your thoughts?

[Bobafreak]

I wouldnt mind purchasing a new vehicle, its just the fact about it is i drive 450 miles a week on the 10fwy mon-fri so were talking about lots of mileage. Something i dont know if i would like to do to a new car. Most of the designs are too similar to one another and alot of the newer "sportier" if you say sedans look like space bubbles. I mean a little less aero dynamic please. Just my 2 cents. I do agree getting rid of the designer big shots and maybe listening to the publics majority idea of the next concept which would bring a better increase in sales?

Currently im looking for a truck. I was thinking more like expediiton (room for the kids) but i think i wanna truck. i still cant think of the pros and cons of either or.

[exitspeed]

Currently im looking for a truck. I was thinking more like expediiton (room for the kids) but i think i wanna truck. i still cant think of the pros and cons of either or.

This is another topic all together. 35 MPG CAFE regulations means nothing until we shed the idea of buying vehicles like the Expedition for daily commuting. No offense to you at all.

[Matej]

I hate all new car designs, I haven't really liked anything past 2003 or so. Personally I don't see what's so great about the new Malibu, it's just another commuter sedan that GM is making out to look like the savior of the middle class. All these new cars are starting to look more and more alike to me.

Personally I think that American automakers are putting out too many trucks and SUV's at a time when the demand for them is not nearly as high. They should cut down their lineups and focus on perfecting their popular models.

Here's the only thing I'm kind of excited about. No, not because it's Nissan, but because it sounds like someone is planning to do something right.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/03/nissan-to-cut-weight-by-15-percent-by-2015/

I'm also excited about the new Silvia if that's really happening, and this time, yes, because it's a Nissan Silvia. Though I'm not getting my hopes up because a lot of the cars that could've been great in the past few years have been a fail.

[exitspeed]

I hate all new car designs, I haven't really liked anything past 2003 or so. Personally I don't see what's so great about the new Malibu, it's just another commuter sedan that GM is making out to look like the savior of the middle class. All these new cars are starting to look more and more alike to me.

Yea styling is subjective though. And do some research, it pretty much IS the savior for GM.


Personally I think that American automakers are putting out too many trucks and SUV's at a time when the demand for them is not nearly as high. They should cut down their lineups and focus on perfecting their popular models.


They are actually. We're actually going to see more CUV's and less SUV's.

[Antihero983]

i just saw the new forester. and vomitted. i know subaru is trying to shed its quirky design image, but wtf man?! they came out the tribeca, then they made the impreza look like it, and now the forester will look like a rav 4 with down syndrome....great.

[exitspeed]

i just saw the new forester. and vomitted. i know subaru is trying to shed its quirky design image, but wtf man?! they came out the tribeca, then they made the impreza look like it, and now the forester will look like a rav 4 with down syndrome....great.

Yea, Subby is on a total design fail streak right now. I see what they are trying to do, but the execution just hasn't been there. They are trying to become more mainstream. I was just thinking the other day how much I miss those giants fogs. :-/

[Bobafreak]

I loved the bug eyes 02-04. For a company i noticed there cars aren't bad are Toyota's line up.

[Matej]

Yea styling is subjective though. And do some research, it pretty much IS the savior for GM.
I know it's popular and people are going crazy over it, but I think a big part of that is that GM keeps overglorifying it on TV and everywhere, while to me it doesn't seem like anything as special as they make it out to be. But if it's working for them and helping them sell cars then go GM.

[exitspeed]

I know it's popular and people are going crazy over it, but I think a big part of that is that GM keeps overglorifying it on TV and everywhere, while to me it doesn't seem like anything as special as they make it out to be. But if it's working for them and helping them sell cars then go GM.

Compared to the Camry and the Accord it's as good or better of a car. That is being echoed by nearly everybody in the industry. So the hype is justified.

[driftyour40]

I hope the car is as good as they say. I'm so sick of broken down pos Chevy economy cars coming into my shop looking for a quick fix to a mountain of problems starting at the most expensive places. Failed motor mounts, trannys and cooling systems. Not to mention that dexcool is the worst thing you could do to a cooling system. I couldn't tell you how many times I have seen dexcool turn into some sort of paste. Anyhow all cars are nice when brand new. It’s later down the road when cars show how good they really are/are not. Not to rag on Chevy it’s really all cars, some do hold up better then others though.

[exitspeed]

I hate all new car designs, I haven't really liked anything past 2003 or so.


And the main reason the designs look the way they do now is because of aerodynamics. That's only going to get worse now that the new CAFE regulations have been passed.

[exitspeed]

New topic for 3/6. One that will spark a little more interest around here.

Infinity.

We seen the new FX debut (http://www.zilvia.net/f//showthread.php?t=180434) this week with a new 5.0 V8. The reaction to the FX's looks have been mixed. But the new V8 sounds like a winner.

What's really interesting is the continued hints (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/sedans/carlos-ghosn-hints-at-gt-r-based-sedan/#more-5059) that Infinity will get a flagship variant of the GTR in the form of a sedan. A $100k Infinity based on the GTR is a dream car to me. But for it to truly compete with the S's and 7's of the world, it needs a V8. So take one part GTR platform, add in the new 5.0 V8 pumping out, oh 500hp, and BAM! Instant baller stasis.

But wait. Nissan said that the new Q would debut before any type of GTR Infinity variant would happen. And the new Q will be the flagship using the new 5.0.

My prediction is this. We'll see the new Q50 debut this year and get the production vehicle early (right about this time) the following year as a 2010 model. The Q will top out in the $60-$70k range and start in the low $50's. The GTR based sedan will be positioned above the Q, but touted as a high end sports Sedan Flagship topping out around $100k. Q = Ultra luxury, GTR/Infinity Sedan = luxury Sport. This will finally position Infinity among the Germans best.

then the new CAFE regs go into effect and it all comes tumbling down...

[exitspeed]

Motortrend has now debunked their GTR Sedan rumor.

Ghosn recently told reporters at the Geneva Motor Show that the idea of a four-door super sports sedan based on the Nissan GT-R is "online blog speculation". Uh, you talking to me? Of course it's speculation, but we're from America and if two doors is good then four must certainly be better, right? Actually, no, we're fine with the GT-R fulfilling its purpose as a personal road rocket with room for two. And no blog started the four-door GT-R rumor, that would be Motor Trend, which, on authority from a "senior Nissan source", went so far as to commission renderings of the imaginary model, as well.

Infiniti will likely, however, field a successor to the discontinued Q45 that's more suited to take on its German competition, a charge that's all the more relevant considering Infiniti's impending penetration into the Western European market. Such a flagship model would likely be powered by the new 390-horsepower 5.0L V8 that debuted in the also-new FX50 in Geneva. Hopefully the next Q will be more competitive than the model that no one noticed disappear from the market two years ago, but don't expect a four-door GT-R. It doesn't sound like Ghosn wants one at the moment and the brand is more in need of a new top model to replace the M35/45 that's hardly suited for the job.

[Source: Motor Trend]

[Dirty Habit]

Around here its 99.9% Jeep, Ford, GM..etc. I rarely see a subaru or nissan, and if I do they're driven by an out of state, college aged person.

Its crazy to hear people talk about how bad the large domestic makers are doing, complain about the job losses in the area because of it. When they get done bitching to you they go out to their lifted 2008 Ford Excursion 5000 Eddie Bauer ltd with double stacks coming out the bed and drive off to their big ass house where 3 other oversized domestic cars wait.
This was the same dude braggin to you last year he made over 50k w/ benefits working a mon-fri 8 hour shift at the jeep plant on the assembly line drilling 5 holes in a frame every 20 minutes. Not to mention his wife works over at the gm plant doin the same thing and she makes just a bit more than him. This example may be extreme, but I see something close to it every couple days where I work.
Welcome to Ohio.

[muddafakka]

With the exception of a select few, I hate all new cars.

That is all.

[kingkilburn]

I think for Infiniti to go up against Benz and BMW they need to drop the Korean looking designs. The new FX and Rouge look like high class Santa Fes.


To add to the previous discussion about the "Big" three, if they made their build quality better more people would buy. Toyota became the second largest auto maker with well built reliable cars. They put speed and excitement on the back burner for nearly a decade will Nissan was building the Silvia, Z, and GT-R. We now where that got Nissan.

[exitspeed]

Today's topic. The new Ford Taurus. Spy shots have JUST broke!
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/news/2008/0409/10.ford.taurus.f34.500.jpg

Ford said that it was going to go all out with the new design. No boring Ford 500 styling.

You can really see the new Euro styling borrowed from their own Euro cars. Very similiar to the very popular Mondeo. Oh and don't forget it will have Ford's new EcoBoost turbo V6 engine boasting V8 power.

I must say that I'm quit impressed with the design and I hope for Ford's sake this is just the tip of the ice burg.

[IIIXziuR]

WOW, that Taurus dosen't look like something Grandma and Grandpa would drive! Lets see how that turns out.

[exitspeed]

I'm glad they are doing away with the "oh-so-American" bold three bar grill.

And can we say, SHO kids?

[eastcoastS14]

I have to say I really like the design of the new Subaru Legacy GT...idk why there is just something really nice about it

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Damn, I would not have guessed thats a Taurus. Turbo V6:naughty:
Wonder what mpg #'s will be

[ronmcdon]

With the American car manufacturers, idk, just nothing really gets my attention other than the Vette, the G8, and possibly the new camaro. the new turbo cobalt ss seems to offer a lot in pure well-rounded performance. . Usually i don't care too much about looks, but the cobalt is just a bit too bland. Not really interested in the Solstice or the Sky either. The turbo models are very close to the 128's price range. I think GM would benefit if they brought over their Holden division entirely.

Chysler is currently my least fav car company in terms of aesthetics. I think they've taken the whole retro thing too far. imo, it's played out and uninteresting. After axing the Viper, they really don't have a single interesting choice

Ford does some of the retro nonsense too with the Mustang, but I find the styling cues bit more subtle and tasteful. that aside, I think Ford's designs are too subtle to the point of boredom, or maybe I'm just not a fan of J Mays period. They do have some good products overseas like the Euro Focus hatch, and the Australian Ford Falcon twin-turbo V6 (which they should bring to battle the G8), but nothing interesting now.

That being said, if I were to shop for something cheap and practical, I would almost always go with a Honda for a safe buy that assures reliability, resale, and refinement. I also happen to like the way they drive too. I am actually looking to purchase a Fit Sport once I pay off my CC debts.

For fun affordable cars, there's actually a lot of wonderful choices out there at a relative bargain. my fav 2 are the evo x and the 135 (if optioned sensibly).

[TheWolf]

Every so often, about every 5 or 10 years one of us here has to buy a new car. And when you face that reality you realize that, it's doesn't matter if some new ecoboost v6 is out in two years or if someone is got the latest and greatest on the drawing board. You need one NOW. either because your current car just died, is going to die, wreck, stolen etc. few people can plan out a purchase. So it's what's out there today. The Wife and I were on vacation and our loveable dodge van died in some podunk town on friday at 5:10pm. No one within 50 miles was going to look at it till monday. We have jobs and had to be back on monday so it was either rent a car for hundreds and fix the van or replace it with something new. We were car shopping and we were going home with a new car that weekend. So a golden turd really haunts you because when I went shopping for my car.

I gave GM,ford, and chrysler a chance and they did nothing but disapoint. BTW I was looking for a crossover that had 4wd, v6, good mileage and nice interior ranked in that order. GM offered up the Vue. Which we had liked but really wanted the hybrid until we found out it wasn't 4wd. I mean it was ok. everything bland about GM is present but sometimes that's good with a 2 year old throwing cheerio's in the back. If you got the half leather seats, sunroof and 6disc mp3 unit. You were well into 29k. The whole dash is still plastic. It was still more a 4dr mini van than a cross over. drove like a van. The equinox was well just all wrong. and if you didn't like the equinox you definitly weren't going to like the torrent. I didn't even know what one was but when salerep pointed it out from 45' away we told the salesman no thank you. didn't need to get any closer. Ford had the escape and the edge. Edge was just to hhr toy fwd car competitor. The escape was great. He told us they start at 20k. We gave our options.. Said they had one on the dealer lot with everything.. we walked upto it and loved it. I walked over to the sticker. 29,599?? + tax WTF! How can you throw 9k in options on a 20k car? Seriously. 50% of the value of the whole car in leather seats and crap? this is practically a 30k ford escape? cmon. Heated seats and wheel controls for $800? Chrome roofrail inserts $195?? Chrysler. We just drove past. Nothing even caught our attention. So much for that whole buy american BS.

Then we start hitting foreign joints. Honda doesn't have a v6 4wd crossover and the CRV is anemic at best. it's great if you don't need to get anywhere fast. Was small. Mazda, well my friend loves mazda. he loves showing me what a great deal his millenia is. How it has this auto tilting wheel, vents that sweep back and forth etc etc. Half the features don't work any more. To fix sweeping vents is only 650 bucks. The wheel broke last week so it's always at full tilt now. Drive it like a bus or pay 950 for the broken actuator. The plastic and leather fade at different rates so his interior is a mishmash of tan and light tan with peeling tan intermixed. Cars 5 years old. Looks like 30. No mazda. hyundai, kia, and subaru. Kia was first. The Sorrento was nice. much nicer than the ford. about 1k cheaper and was just a bigger vehicle overall. Turned easy rode nice. Salesperson was clueless but helpfull. No pressure unlike ford which made my wife really uneasy. We agree to get it. The one you want is at a dealership 30 minutes up the road. It'll be a minute says the manager. 2 hours later and out of excuses we leave. Can't sell the car if you don't have it. No I don't want the ugly metalic green one for $500 off. White is an easy color to sell. Stock it next time idiot. So off to hyundai. I'm a little gunshy of them because back in the 80's my uncle owned a hyundai dealership and as he said. First is was a 30 day net of warranty work pay out. then 60.. then 90.. then 120.. then they quit paying all together and left the dealers hanging with no cars and about 10 days of warning. Leaving dealers to hold the bag on 4 months of warranty work and parts with nothing to move. Most dealers folded cause they were crap cars and well old debts die hard. So with a little trepidation hyundai. Santa Fe was nice. Wife liked. I liked. 4wd with nice interior. The whole thing had 3x the polish on it. Ford Vs Hyundai How far detroit is behind

Hyundai
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/images/vehicle/santafe/gallery/asset_upload_file90_16918.jpg

Ford
http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/images/vehicle/pg/esc08_002_int_lg.jpg

Alas. We're in mountain country and the only thing they stock is 4wd's with cloth. No leather. Didn't really seem to interested to sell us the car to be honest. But it's a great car if you can order one. They said they'd deliver it to us in a week but we'd have to find our own way home.

So we're totally frustrated because we've got cash in hand trying to buy a car and can't.. no wonder sales are down.

I was hoping my wife would like the outback. No way. That's a station wagon. I don't care if it's got a STI underpinnings and hauls ass. It's a wagon. I didn't care but she did. So here we're shit out of luck. Nissan's murano was too expensive, and xterra too truck. never once did I think of suzuki.

Walked over there and hell they wanted to make a sale. Not pushy but informative. Ended up getting a grand vitara with v6, leather sunroof etc for 25k. Drives like a car and doesn't weigh much either. Last time we were up in the mountains there was 5" of snow and on stock tires it traversed 20% grades without any problem. The awd is phenominal for reacting to different terrain.

So next time when I go shopping I'll still have my list of dealers but instead of it starting off with GM Ford Chrysler. It'll start off with Suzuki, Hyundai, Kia. Gm will be at the bottom so unless they make not just make progress but OMG I've got to take notice progress. They've gone from first to last and will stay there.

Just for note... suzuki interior

http://www.suzukiauto.com/_m/sr_08/gallery/images/views/08.GV-05-3_SW1.jpg
not as nice as hyundai but not as lunchbox as ford.

[exitspeed]

New CAFE Regulations are hashed out in more detail. It will be interesting to see if this will effect the new RWD market right away. As in, there won't be one...

From Autoblog:

Last December, President Bush signed a new energy bill into law that requires automakers to achieve a Corporate Average Fuel Economy standard of 35 mpg by 2020. This historic stiffening of CAFE standards set a lofty goal, but left plenty of time to get there and new standards of any kind won't begin until the 2011 model year. Today, which happens to be Earth Day, U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters laid out the first set of new CAFE rules that will be implemented for passenger vehicles and light trucks from 2011 through 2015.

The first step on the path to 35 mpg by 2020 will be increases of 4.5% in CAFE standards for passenger vehicles and light trucks over the five-year period spanning 2011 and 2015. This means that standards for passenger vehicles will rise from the current 27.5 mpg to 35.7 mpg by 2015, while light trucks will go from 23.5 mpg to 28.6 mpg. The NHTSA claims the new interim standards will save 55 billion gallons of gasoline and reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 521 million metric tons. They also claim that drivers will save $100 billion in fuel costs over the lifetime of vehicles that fall under the rule.

We decided to reach out to the Big 3 automakers in the U.S. to ask for a comment, and both Ford and Chrysler are keeping mum until they've had a chance to read over the new rules. General Motors, meanwhile, already released a statement reiterating what it said last December, which is that it will meet the new standards despite how tough they are.

Automakers are also able to earn credits when they happen to exceed the CAFE standards, and can either bank those for a time when they won't meet them or even sell the credits to other automakers at a cost below what the fine would be for not meeting the standards. We've heard rumors, for instance, that Honda's sitting on a healthy pile of credits.

Now that we have an actual CAFE target for the auto industry to hit in the near term, expect to see a flurry of activity from automakers. Lithium-ion plug-in hybrids, series hybrids, diesels and all-electric cars will likely be the new technologies that help the industry meet these new interim CAFE standards by 2015, and the first change set for 2011 is not far away at all.

[SimpleS14]

Some lengthy posts....i'll read them later. :)

For my suggestions..i think it would be best for Ford to seek some advice (cars) from overseas markets sooner than say 2010 (for the focus). The Mondeo can share platforms with the Taurus and just flat out kill the Mercury brand.

Chrysler on the other hand needs a full overhaul, a lot of there designs are crap and they really need to differentiate Chrysler from Dodge. Chrysler (IMO) so be a luxury brand on par with Lincoln and Cadillac, while Dodge is the econ "bread and butter" company and Jeep stay as is...but axe that crap called the Compass. I already know they have some plans to reduce there product line-up...but i hope it means introduction to nice ones.

It will be interesting to see what the domestic companies do in the next five years.

Also....UAW is really annoying me. I can understand the need for unions, but these guys are not being tried like crap compared to non-union workers of Wal-Mart....now those guys need a union (which will never happen).

Can you add "Auto" to the title? For some reason I was thinking about infrastructures and manufacturing.

[exitspeed]

Some lengthy posts....i'll read them later. :)

For my suggestions..i think it would be best for Ford to seek some advice (cars) from overseas markets sooner than say 2010 (for the focus). The Mondeo can share platforms with the Taurus and just flat out kill the Mercury brand.

Yes, Chrysler just announced they would be eliminating all duplicate vehicles. The problem for them now is to decide which one stay and which ones go.


Chrysler on the other hand needs a full overhaul, a lot of there designs are crap and they really need to differentiate Chrysler from Dodge. Chrysler (IMO) so be a luxury brand on par with Lincoln and Cadillac, while Dodge is the econ "bread and butter" company and Jeep stay as is...but axe that crap called the Compass. I already know they have some plans to reduce there product line-up...but i hope it means introduction to nice ones.

I don't ever see them being on par with Cadillac. I don't see Lincoln even being on par with Cadillac for a long time. The CTS is just too good for any Ford or Chrysler product to compete with.


Can you add "Auto" to the title? For some reason I was thinking about infrastructures and manufacturing.

Sure thing.

[OptionZero]

Random idea: Mitsubishi should give up on trying to be a mainstream automaker and be was Subaru was, a more niche builder.

Kill the Galant. Kill the Diamate. Kill the Eclipse. Kill anything that isn't the EVO or Lancer.

Just live of the EVO as a halo car for enthusiasts, keep a smaller AWD Lancer to cater to the outdoor folks or anyone who lives in the snow, and keep a base model Lancer as ur hipster/ricer/college student-mobile.

[exitspeed]

Random idea: Mitsubishi should give up on trying to be a mainstream automaker and be was Subaru was, a more niche builder.

Kill the Galant. Kill the Diamate. Kill the Eclipse. Kill anything that isn't the EVO or Lancer.

Just live of the EVO as a halo car for enthusiasts, keep a smaller AWD Lancer to cater to the outdoor folks or anyone who lives in the snow, and keep a base model Lancer as ur hipster/ricer/college student-mobile.

You can't make it off of one car. Especially one sports car. The niche idea is good.

Mitsu needs a new strategy badly.

[slidingsky]

I kind of agree with that but funny thing is that I see more of the "Kills" than I see the Lancer/EVO & even the Eclipse.

[OptionZero]

A couple years ago, Subaru had the

WRX variants: normal, 2.5RS equivalent, and STi

Legacy variants: Outback, GT

They didn't build a minivan, they didn't build a city car, they didn't built any FWD coupes for secretaries. They did earn quite a bit of cred for quality and functional AWD systems and safety, and their rally heritage and JDM tyte looks helped them grab a spot from the graduated class of Former Honda Drivers.

I don't know if the EVO focus would work, but it can't be worse, and it would save us the trouble of seeing all those fucking ugly cars

[kingkilburn]

I would think that the new CAFE regs would push the big truck amricans towards a small any thing. If rwd is what ia already in development(and will sell) why not go for that option.

As far as Mitsubishi goes, they should keep the evo and go from there.

What I would love to see from both Mitsubishi and Subaru is a gt car built with their own AWD systems. Something along the lines of Nissan's old Mid4 concept but smaller. Small AWD, mid engine(With the evo/sti engine). I guess I'm thinking of a modern MR2 but derived from touring car and rally rather than F1.

Do you guys think the industry/market are ready for something like that?

[ronmcdon]

Random idea: Mitsubishi should give up on trying to be a mainstream automaker and be was Subaru was, a more niche builder.

Kill the Galant. Kill the Diamate. Kill the Eclipse. Kill anything that isn't the EVO or Lancer.

Just live of the EVO as a halo car for enthusiasts, keep a smaller AWD Lancer to cater to the outdoor folks or anyone who lives in the snow, and keep a base model Lancer as ur hipster/ricer/college student-mobile.

I'm not a fan of the current Eclipse, but it does sell decent. With the new evo's, Im not too sure. I like it a lot, but I really question how well they're selling right now. I have not seen a single evo x out here in socal, other than at the mitsu dealer or track events. Eclipses seem common enough.

I do agree with you there about axing the galant, or have some radical redesign to catch up with the competition. I thought the Diamante was gone a long time ago.

I think mitsu bringing out the Lancer Ralliart to compete with the wrx is a good idea, IF they give drivers a choice of the manual tranny (last i read on the evo forums, that wasnt the case).

I do think mitsu needs to bring over the Colt to compete with the Fit/Yaris/Versa. the base lancer doesn't get very good mpg, and that's almost always what economy car buyers look for these days.

With the evo x, they do need to throw in a damn 6-spd (if even to have the 6th gear as a cruising gear to save gas). Yes, I know it's a performance car, but the gas bills suck. Recaro seats also need some height adjustment. Otherwise it's a great car! They're selling for under 32k in socal as far as i know.

[SimpleS14]

What I would love to see from both Mitsubishi and Subaru is a gt car built with their own AWD systems. Something along the lines of Nissan's old Mid4 concept but smaller. Small AWD, mid engine(With the evo/sti engine). I guess I'm thinking of a modern MR2 but derived from touring car and rally rather than F1.

Do you guys think the industry/market are ready for something like that?

Not in mass production at a decent price.

[exitspeed]

Today's topic: The Beijing '08: Buick Invicta Concept

In case you aren't aware, you're looking at our next Buick LaCrosse. I think it looks very sharp. The taillights are a little borrowed, bit I really like the rest of the lines. I can't stand fender vents unless it's son a Buick so those are OK. I believe it'll be on the same platform as the Malibu and Aura.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/buick-invicta-concept-reveal--11.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/buick-invicta-concept-reveal--09.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/buick-invicta-concept-reveal--21.jpg

[IStop4NoMan]

looks like the middle was a b16 sentra and dodge charger mix.

whats up with concept cars and not having door handles?! I see tons of concept cars without doors handle and non of them have lasted like that to production

[exitspeed]

looks like the middle was a b16 sentra and dodge charger mix.

whats up with concept cars and not having door handles?! I see tons of concept cars without doors handle and non of them have lasted like that to production

It depends on what kind of concept car it is. Some concepts are meant to show almost completely what the production car will look like (FX, EX, Maxima, CTS Coupe) with some minor tweeks. Usually those will have handles. Some concepts are meant to showcase completely unique and sometimes off-the-wall designs. Those won't have handles and details like that.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Not feeling the Charger-esque body line. Rest isn't bad at all. I like the huge windows, too.

[Future240]

Not really feeling that at all, it looks like its tryin to be a sports car and a sedan at the same time, which could be a good thing if done right, but this looks like the opposite of done right.

[exitspeed]

Today's topic.

Flybrid System. A new Type of Hybrid system. Cliff notes.

"a combination of flywheel and hybrid. Rather than capture and store braking energy as electricity in batteries as most hybrids do, it stores that energy mechanically in the form of a spinning flywheel. You know those toy cars you push along the carpet so the wheels will get an internal flywheel spinning, then let it go and watch it scoot across the floor? It's the same idea, only fancier."

"the companies that have developed this system claim it can boost the fuel economy of a vehicle by 27% based on the EPA driving cycle (FTP75). They claim they can offer a hybrid package that is half the size and weight of a battery-based system, at one quarter of the cost. It's also made from fairly common materials that can be readily recycled."

Here's a link to John McElroy's article. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/08/autoline-on-autoblog-with-john-mcelroy/

[kingkilburn]

The idea is sound. I bet it could be easily implemented on older engines too.

[exitspeed]

Today's topic: Americans don't get the most fuel efficient cars because of our buying habits

I've ranted on this topic before but wanted to go into further detail. This is the article that sparked this for me today.

"The full-size, $74,700 2008 Lexus LX 570 SUV has the worst fuel economy rating of any Lexus, at a paltry 12/18 mpg city/highway.

There's no hybrid version, no derivative that burns E85 ethanol, and no higher-mileage diesel alternative. You can't even get one with four cylinders that shut off when cruising to conserve gas at a time when it’s topped $4 a gallon.

Yet if you want to order one today, you may have to wait up to 90 days to get one in the color you want with the options you want.

"There's only a four-days supply of LX 570s in dealer inventory nationwide," Lexus spokesman Greg Tomei said. A 60-day supply is considered normal. “We don't give the number out, but from the time it reaches the lot until it leaves the lot, the LX 570 has the quickest turn rate of any vehicle in our lineup." "

Now granted new and used trucks and SUV's are sitting on lots longer then ever and trade in values are next to nothing. But this is just so frustrating to see that the manufacturers are finally realizing they need to kill off their full size trucks (GM is talking about getting rid of most of the body on frame SUV's), yet people are still blowing $74k on a giant SUV they DO NOT NEED. :duh:

[Baka Sama]

Today's topic: Americans don't get the most fuel efficient cars because people with money dont like to buy the same things as middle America.

Now granted new and used trucks and SUV's are sitting on lots longer then ever and trade in values are next to nothing. But this is just so frustrating to see that the manufacturers are finally realizing they need to kill off their full size trucks (GM is talking about getting rid of most of the body on frame SUV's), yet people are still blowing $74k on a giant SUV they DO NOT NEED. :duh:

The wealthy people in this county couldnt care less about fuel efficient cars. They have money, so why would they care? Automakers cater to these people because these people are the ones who buy their new cars as soon as they come out. Not 2 years later when the value has dropped. When the upper class of America including celebs care about fuel economy, automakers will stop building these types of cars.

But isnt that the American dream? To achieve baller satus? To be the guy driving a 08' Hummer on huge gaudy rims or the guy in the new lambo going 130 down the highway? To be able to afford what the normal man cannot, like to drive a suv that gets 15mpg.

Its funny how people on car forums talk about suvs but how about sport cars? How about porsche, ferrari, and lamborghini? Not only do these types of cars get as much or less mpg as big suvs but they only seat 2 people. What purpose do they serve besides bragging rights on paper and status symbols?

[exitspeed]

But isnt that the American dream? To achieve baller satus? To be the guy driving a 08' Hummer on huge gaudy rims or the guy in the new lambo going 130 down the highway? To be able to afford what the normal man cannot, like to drive a suv that gets 15mpg.

It's not mine. You can have that shit. I'm no tree huger but I can't stand waste just because you can. These celebs that have to have special water and everything in their dressing room the same color and that shit PISS ME OFF. It's just nonsense wastefulness. It's disgusting to me. I'm all about being baller. To a certain point.


Its funny how people on car forums talk about suvs but how about sport cars? How about porsche, ferrari, and lamborghini? Not only do these types of cars get as much or less mpg as big suvs but they only seat 2 people. What purpose do they serve besides bragging rights on paper and status symbols?

I DD a Camry and my 240 is bone stock and gets 30mpg. 240's are sports cars. I bought mine not to impress anyone, I could care less. That's why I've driven a stock 240 now for like 5 years. I bought one because I loved the car and wanted to do autoX and learn how to drive.

[Future240]

Today's topic: Americans don't get the most fuel efficient cars because of our buying habits

I've ranted on this topic before but wanted to go into further detail. This is the article that sparked this for me today.

"The full-size, $74,700 2008 Lexus LX 570 SUV has the worst fuel economy rating of any Lexus, at a paltry 12/18 mpg city/highway.

There's no hybrid version, no derivative that burns E85 ethanol, and no higher-mileage diesel alternative. You can't even get one with four cylinders that shut off when cruising to conserve gas at a time when it’s topped $4 a gallon.

Yet if you want to order one today, you may have to wait up to 90 days to get one in the color you want with the options you want.

"There's only a four-days supply of LX 570s in dealer inventory nationwide," Lexus spokesman Greg Tomei said. A 60-day supply is considered normal. “We don't give the number out, but from the time it reaches the lot until it leaves the lot, the LX 570 has the quickest turn rate of any vehicle in our lineup." "

Now granted new and used trucks and SUV's are sitting on lots longer then ever and trade in values are next to nothing. But this is just so frustrating to see that the manufacturers are finally realizing they need to kill off their full size trucks (GM is talking about getting rid of most of the body on frame SUV's), yet people are still blowing $74k on a giant SUV they DO NOT NEED. :duh:

like baka sama said, its catered to the rich. If you can can comfortable afford a 74K vehicle more than likely you arent worried about gas prices. So you buy whatever you want. Bigger is just the american way. I'm sure you remeber the 90's tv ads of bigger is better. This is how average america sees it, the rednecks with the 40 inch tires on their chevies, and black folks with the same on their boxes and bubbles are prime examples. When people want somethin and they can afford it, usually they say to hell with everything else. and as far as not needing it goes, same deal. We are posting a car forum that is full of stuff people dont need, stuff that lowers their gas mileage and adds pollution to the world. Yet how many sr, ka-t and rb threads have we looked at and congradulated? Buying things we dont need and not giving one about anythin else is what americans do, and while we may not do it in the form of a 74K suv, we all do it in some way form, or fashion

[stiizy]

Today's topic: The Beijing '08: Buick Invicta Concept

In case you aren't aware, you're looking at our next Buick LaCrosse. I think it looks very sharp. The taillights are a little borrowed, bit I really like the rest of the lines. I can't stand fender vents unless it's son a Buick so those are OK. I believe it'll be on the same platform as the Malibu and Aura.



http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/buick-invicta-concept-reveal--21.jpg


what are those LED version RL tail lights??

[Baka Sama]

It's not mine. You can have that shit. I'm no tree huger but I can't stand waste just because you can. These celebs that have to have special water and everything in their dressing room the same color and that shit PISS ME OFF. It's just nonsense wastefulness. It's disgusting to me. I'm all about being baller. To a certain point.



I DD a Camry and my 240 is bone stock and gets 30mpg. 240's are sports cars. I bought mine not to impress anyone, I could care less. That's why I've driven a stock 240 now for like 5 years. I bought one because I loved the car and wanted to do autoX and learn how to drive.

Im not saying that Im after these things. I actually hate wastefullnes as much as the next guy but thats just the world we live in.

To be honest, car enthusiasts today are at an end of an era. We are not running out of oil but the government wants us off of it, so SUV's trucks, and preformance cars as we know them will have to change too. The tesla is proof positive that sport cars can not only be fuel efficient but fuelless.. I look forward to the day when I help my son or daughter up the voltage on their new nissan 550z for more hp. Or the day I help them install a larger water tank in their hydrogen suv for better fuel economy.

Until then, Ill let the rich be rich and buy their useless toys. I however, will continue to live below my means and spend my money on used sport cars I can track every blue moon and daily drive. With cars like 350z's falling below $13,000 at car lots, it would take something drastic like an affordable all electric sports car for me to buy something brand new.

[MadScientist]

I have read a good bit of this post and noticed the majority of the Topics are US Based Cars and US Based Mentality.
Its a known World Fact that the US uses more oil than any other country in the world and a large majority of it is from transportation use.
The US also pays less for oil then any other country and also doesn't have a worthy public transportation agenda for city/ suburb based life.

So even in a time where gas is at $4/ gallon, the US still feels the need to be in a HorsePower Race with Japan... and we all know the US is loosing baddly!!
(GTR vs Z1) we all know who Motor Trend has crowned, even though its not out yet!!!

I recently was in the market to buy a new car... it didn't have to be NEW new... but at least in the 2000 era. I searched and debated for weeks, not just because I am indeciscive (sp) but there isn't shit out worth my coin.
The only 2 maybe 3 cars were so far off and different from each other it made it that much more impossable.
05 Lotus Elise (i know... I must love torturing my kidneys)
05 MB CLK55 AMG (because its soooo nice)
Evo 9 (fuck the X)
These are all in the average $30k price range and all great performance and reliablity. What really got me is that the MPG was really close in all of these models even though they are very different; 365hp V8, 287hp Turbo I4, and a 170hp N/A I4). I eventually lost interest in all and descided to finish building my S14 to 400hp. It will be faster and yup... the same MPG.

I have thought about alternate fuel modifications but nothing is really worthy... so much BS around the E85 conversions and in the Dirty South we dont have E85 stations... maybe one in NOLA and one in Baton Rouge. Pure Ethanol/ Metanol... be real... thats more then gas. Deisel SR20 on Veg oil... that was a thought... we will call it a theory for now!

My GF has a Civic and a CX7... it cost nearly $60 to fill up a FUCKING CIVIC!!!
The side window has one of these ULEV stickers on it... my wallet now has a gas guage with a blinking empty light attached to it!!!

Think of what it would be like if New York City looked like a Thiland market with everyone on bikes!! Oh shit... I'm Sorry.. were in the US... it would be SEGWAYs, not bikes!! Wanna see and acident report on a 20 segway pile up.

The Segway makes a few good points about Transpotation needs... NO-ONE needs a 2 Ton H1 Hummer to take your 170lb ass (average) to Dinner and a Movie. We dont even need something that is 1 Ton. Look at the life and weight gain of the Honda Civic... and for what???

If you said Saftey... think again... the assholes that drive Volvos and Saab drive crazier than anyone, because they know they are safe... does that make it safe??

The 70 year old Grandma that got her DL back in 1910 and never had to re-test, but can't see the object in her own hands... is ok to drive a 2 ton tank at hwy speeds.

I know this got off topic but if you think about it... its all relative.

YES, Manufacturers need to re-think the Economy and what they push on people... yes they are pushers... (Elivis is still alive - 50,000 people can't be wrong)... how else to you explain the dumb ass massive SUVs like the Excursion... because you really needed one, and your neighbor just got an Escalade, puney little Escalade, muhahhaha!!!

OK I'll stop because I can go on like this for Days...!

-Drew

[exitspeed]

^
Back from the dead.

[Walperstyle]

The main problem with the US automakers is Unions. Offering false job security is one thing, but taking money from the company legally is another.

The second and just as important problem with US Auto MFGs is the in-ability to create a fun and cheap car.

I'm sure if they took the time to build a proper production line and have more universal parts in all cars, and make the body's out of recycled plastics we could have something as foolproof as the miata's success.

anyone ever read up on the technology behind the Plymouth Pronto Spyder Prototype? (nothing to do with the PT cruiser)

Could have saved Chrysler. Cost to make would have been so low that they could have sold it for cheap and still make thousands of dollars off of each.

Niche markets are also unique, but you cannot have expensive factories building only one type of car (getting back to universal parts)

The universal parts goes back to the 50's and 60's and what made cars such a success then was that anything fit, and anything goes.

[Walperstyle]

to add: I agree with auto mfg's building cars to protect the stupid people that dont know how to drive. I own a 65 Chrysler thats 19feet long with top speed of 140mph.... I'd probably go through most cumple zones that engineers got payed way too much to design in the first place.

We all gotta die sometime, teach people to drive and build cars the way they use to be!

[exitspeed]

Today's Topic:

GM is thinking about making another smart move. At least IMO. Truck and SUV sales are plummeting. People's views on these vehicles is also becoming negative. In 5 years not many people are going to want to look like the asshole still driving their 10mpg Hummer to and from work everyday. I think it's a wise move, just as it was a wise move for Ford to unload Range Rover.

"Wagoner will also be announcing that GM has begun a strategic review of the HUMMER brand. We contacted GM spokesperson Joanne Krell this morning who told us that the review has just begun and there is no time frame for a decision. "The HUMMER brand is a great brand and we're probably not maximizing it to its fullest. Perhaps somebody else would have that opportunity." All options are being considered including "ramping up the portfolio," shutting the brand down or "selling it in whole or in part." At this point, GM has not had any discussions with other manufacturers about the possibility of a sale, which won't happen until the review is completed."

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/03/breaking-gm-to-close-4-truck-plants-may-sell-or-close-hummer/

[kingkilburn]

There is no reason to kill the hummer brand, just take it more in the direction of a Jeep. If it is a recreational vehicle rather than a big people carrier as well as diesel powered I see o reason the kill it.

They are doing better with Hummer as of late any way. The H3 is much better than the 2 in my opinion. The H3T is even more like a real Hummer and the new X concept seems right on the money.

What I'd love to see is a TDI hybrid. Good power and mpg when not in boost. If we can make our fast cars have good mileage why can't our big trucks.

[SimpleS14]

No way I can see GM shutting down the Hummer brand. GM themselves stated that shutting down a brand is expensive....they are still feeling the hurt from shutting down Oldsmobile.

Selling (or joint venture) is a possibility since the name still has some weight and they are no longer contracted to the U.S. gov't...or are they? (i.e. maintenence/parts)

[Antihero983]

GM is shutting down a bunch of it's truck/SUV building plants as well....

[exitspeed]

There is no reason to kill the hummer brand, just take it more in the direction of a Jeep. If it is a recreational vehicle rather than a big people carrier as well as diesel powered I see o reason the kill it.

They are doing better with Hummer as of late any way. The H3 is much better than the 2 in my opinion. The H3T is even more like a real Hummer and the new X concept seems right on the money.

What I'd love to see is a TDI hybrid. Good power and mpg when not in boost. If we can make our fast cars have good mileage why can't our big trucks.

How good the vehicle is and the reality of them not selling are separate things. At a time when profits are low, and sales of such vehicles are nill, they have no choice but to do something about it. GM is brand heavy anyway and that is a fact that most in the industry think they should do something about.

SimpleS14 I agree they won't shut it down due to cost. I do however see them selling the brand maybe in the next 18 months.

[Antihero983]

from yahoo.com....

GM to close four plants, may unload Hummer line

WILMINGTON, Delaware (Reuters) - General Motors Corp on Tuesday said it was closing four truck plants and could sell its Hummer brand to cut slow-selling trucks and SUVs from its lineup in response to higher gasoline prices the automaker now sees as a permanent threat to its business.

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Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, speaking after a revised restructuring plan was approved by the automaker's board, said GM would close the four North American truck plants and add shifts at two U.S. plants making more popular car models.

In addition, Wagoner said GM was reviewing the Hummer brand and could sell the military-derived SUV line, which has become synonymous with gas-guzzling excess.

"U.S. economic and market conditions have become significantly more difficult," Wagoner said, adding higher gasoline prices have caused consumers to swap out of higher-margin trucks and SUVs faster than GM had expected.

In a related shift, Wagoner said GM's board approved funding for a next-generation compact to replace the Cobalt and a new subcompact to replace the Aveo. Both Chevrolet-branded small cars, which have been under development at GM's Korean unit, are set to go on sale in 2010.

GM's board also allocated production funding to the Chevy Volt, a heavily touted, all-electric vehicle that GM expects to have in showrooms by 2010 and to assemble in Detroit.

GM said the latest steps would cut $1 billion from its structural costs by 2010, but analysts questioned whether the steps would improve the automaker's turnaround prospects in the face of a U.S. market now seen slumping well into 2009.

GM shares, which have lost almost 60 percent since peaking in October last year, were up 3.7 percent at $18.10 on the New York Stock Exchange.

Wagoner said GM, which has lost a combined $51 billion over the past three years, was not ready to detail a timeline for returning to profitability.

Some analysts questioned whether the embattled automaker had moved too slowly, particularly with regard to Hummer.

"Unfortunately, it's just a sign that once again they're behind the curve," said Peter Jankovskis, a chief investment officer with OakBrook Investments, which owns GM shares in some of its portfolios.

"If they were looking to sell the Hummer brand, the more sensible thing would have been to do it three years ago. They're not going to get anything for it. Just in terms of timing, it's a very poor example," he said.

Pete Hastings, a corporate bond analyst at Morgan Keegan, agreed that GM had missed a chance to shop Hummer with potential buyers earlier.

"I wish they had done it awhile ago when it was really hot," he said. "I don't know what price they will get for it as now everyone is conscious of the permanent shift away from less fuel-efficient vehicles."

GM said it would stop making light trucks at plants in Oshawa, Ontario; Silao, Mexico, and two U.S. plants covered by its contract with the United Auto Workers: Moraine, Ohio, and Janesville, Wisconsin. The Mexican plant will close this year with the other three facilities shutting down in 2009 and 2010.

Canadian Auto Workers President Buzz Hargrove, who last month negotiated a three-year cost-saving contract with GM, called the automaker's decision to close its Oshawa plant making the Silverado pickup truck a "betrayal." He said the union would press for a reversal of the planned move.

"We are not going to let GM walk away from the bargaining table," Hargrove told reporters in Toronto. "I want to state as clearly as I can: We are not going to allow this to happen."

'TOTAL CAPITULATION'

Tim Ghriskey, chief investment officer with Solaris Asset Management in New York, said GM would eventually see cost savings from its decision to close the truck plants.

"This is total capitulation by GM management to the price of oil," said Ghriskey, who does not currently own GM shares but has in the past and follows the stock closely. "GM believes that the high price of oil is permanent and therefore they are making dramatic cuts in their low-mileage vehicles."

GM said it took the latest steps in a 3-year-old program of cost-cutting in response to a U.S. sales decline and a shift out of higher-margin trucks and SUVs that have both shot past expectations.

Major automakers, including GM, are expected to post steep declines in U.S. sales for May later on Tuesday, as the spike in gas prices batters an industry that has been reeling this year from weak consumer confidence and tighter credit.

GM's rival Ford Motor Co warned last month it no longer expected to turn a profit in 2009 because of the impact of runaway gas prices.

President and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said GM was no longer confident the U.S. auto market would recover in the second half of this year as it had earlier predicted.

But Henderson, who was speaking to reporters before GM's annual meeting with shareholders, said GM has adequate cash to fund operations in 2008 and could raise more liquidity if the downturn in the auto market persists.

GM ended the first quarter with $31 billion in cash, available liquidity and undrawn credit. Analysts handicapping GM's turnaround efforts have increasingly focused on the cash drain from its operations and support for troubled former subsidiaries, GMAC and bankrupt parts supplier Delphi Corp.

In a sign of the deepening trouble for GMAC's mortgage unit, ResCap, GMAC and Cerberus Capital Management on Tuesday said they had agreed to inject more than $1.4 billion to help the struggling mortgage lender avoid running short of cash.

Cerberus bought 51 percent of Detroit-based GMAC from GM, which retains the rest of the equity in the financing company.

(Additional reporting by Ben Klayman in Chicago and Poornima Gupta in Detroit; Writing by Kevin Krolicki; Editing by Maureen Bavdek)

[SimpleS14]

I don't get the comment from the CAW rep. If the market is not in demand for a certain product and the producer is losing money...why force them to keep the plant open? I'm sure they can shift the workers to another plant which might result in fewer working hours for the staff, but still receiving the high pay (maybe for UAW moreso).

[Str8 Rippin]

A little off topic but funny none the less is Chrysler's code name for the sebring redesign Project D. Insert drifto reference here lol

[exitspeed]

MAJOR NEWS!

Source Autoblog

"he two brands who lost and gained the most sales last month (MINI and HUMMER) sum up nicely what happened to auto sales during May in the U.S. Brands armed with small cars weathered the storm and big trucks and SUVs continued to nose dive. In fact, after 17 years worth of being this country's best-selling vehicle, the Ford F-150 full-size pickup (42,973) has fallen for the first time to fifth place behind the Honda Accord (43,728), Toyota Camry (51,291), Corolla (52,826) and your new best-selling vehicle in the U.S., the Honda Civic (53,299). Note to automakers: that would be the sound of the canary in your coal mine hitting the floor."

EDIT:

Also, regarding the previos topic about Hummer. That brand was down 20%. They sold less then 2000 units.

[kingkilburn]

^
Perfect example of why Hummers should be a low volume high performance vehicle. How long did the prancing pony make that high end suv? Before the H2 Hummers weren't cheap but worth the cost for those that needed it.

[Future240]

"I wish they had done it awhile ago when it was really hot," he said. "I don't know what price they will get for it as now everyone is conscious of the permanent shift away from less fuel-efficient vehicles."

That is my question, even if GM tries to sell hummer, who is going to buy it? Not many want the gas guzzler even if they can afford it. That and another guestion, lets juss say they do sell it, and someone foreign picks it up. How would people react to the hummer being made by someone not american? I think kingkilburn is right, if GM could juss make the hummer more fule efficent, say 24-28 MPG, I think the hummer would sale again. In fact I think that it would blow up from all the people with the 10 MPG Hummers trading in to the new one. Also I think that CA guy needs to re-think his position, I can see he wants to stop the shutdown to save jobs, but i guess he doesnt realize that if GM keeps the plant it will contribute to hurtint he company, which in turn will cause more drastic measures. If GM went backrupt is all imma say..................

[Bubbles]

Around here its 99.9% Jeep, Ford, GM..etc. I rarely see a subaru or nissan, and if I do they're driven by an out of state, college aged person.

Its crazy to hear people talk about how bad the large domestic makers are doing, complain about the job losses in the area because of it. When they get done bitching to you they go out to their lifted 2008 Ford Excursion 5000 Eddie Bauer ltd with double stacks coming out the bed and drive off to their big ass house where 3 other oversized domestic cars wait.
This was the same dude braggin to you last year he made over 50k w/ benefits working a mon-fri 8 hour shift at the jeep plant on the assembly line drilling 5 holes in a frame every 20 minutes. Not to mention his wife works over at the gm plant doin the same thing and she makes just a bit more than him. This example may be extreme, but I see something close to it every couple days where I work.
Welcome to Ohio.


Ha ha.

I was reading this thinking, WTH does this guy live near me?


Checked your location.....Ohio......... close enough.

[exitspeed]

Looks like the same company that bought up the dieing Jaguar and Land Rover is thinking about Hummer next.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/06/report-tata-and-mahindra-interested-in-hummer/

I honestly think it would be a smart move right now for GM.

[kingkilburn]

If you follow the link in that article about Mahindra's truck you will see exactly what hummer needs to survive, a diesel hybrid. 40 MPG and 300 ft-libs of torque is achievable in a truck with only 4 cylinders.

[Daniel.]

Anyone seen this yet?

Some concept alternative materials coming from BMW.

http://bmw-web.tv/en/video/gbiXGRR/BMW%20GINA%20Light%20Visionary%20Model%3A%20Premie re

EDIT: Dammit, i got beat to it.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=197418

[Baka Sama]

And just like that, ford beats nissan for longest headlights on a car. The new ford fiesta.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-6/1312363/Fiesta3.JPG

[axiomatik]

First official announcement that I have seen regarding Ford building the European Focus here in the states:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080620/FREE/355395774/1065

[exitspeed]

First official announcement that I have seen regarding Ford building the European Focus here in the states:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080620/FREE/355395774/1065

This is indeed awesome news.

2010 is gonna be good.

[Antihero983]

Toyota bought another 7% in subaru, and rumor has it theyre planning on buying the rest of it as well.

I think this will be good for subaru, and that they should offer AWD as an option, to get better gas mileage. shit they did it during the 90's!

[neukin]

Sorry to bring this back but killer thread.

Ill start to say im running for President in the future so remember Neukin. But a bit of a odd guys so dont mind my comments. lol

Im in the automotive performance field and love the gas engine but its a goner... We build turbo manifolds and focus on turbo systems but we have already invested alot of time and money into full electric systems for cars and bikes.

The battery technology is here... if you dont agree do your research im not telling you what companies to buy stock in just yet but most are privately owned still. You will find 1 thats the golden ticket, and its just a matter of time before more show now...

Tesla Motors is already doing it and they are using old batteries.. ya they rock out 200miles before a charge and use "old battery technology" with state of the art monitoring, charging and safety systems. Car goes Like [email protected] in the quarter mile from what iv seen and 0-60 in 3.5sec i think it was. 100K cash but its the first car like it in the world, the first computer was how much? Honeywell had the Kitchen computer back in 1977? and it was $7000. Just give it time and support it as much as you can it will only go down.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

All i can say is i cant wait, full tunning with a electric controller... power bursts with capacitors and these new batteries that allow rapid discharge and recharge. The amount of power and torque you get off the line is great or at any rpm for that matter. Electric motors have a very very high efficacy's level about 80% and ill be modest iv see 250hp motors with 94%. Now gas motors have about 25% and again modest. The silence is kinda boring but now i can listen to my "As I Lay Dying" or "Atreyu" without my 3" downpipe out the front of my car blowing my eye drums out or the cops hearing me rip through the gears. Electric cars FTW

And those that say "o but you get power from coal and natural gas dumbass" ya you sure do and its alot easier to control emissions on a power plant then 143 million cars in America. Then to boot if you do even more research there are companies that are making solar panels that apply to glass so window tint is now making power.. just look IBM, Intel and Honda they are doing solar panel research and thats just three i read about yesterday. Honda is making a factory to build them right now.

I cant wait for the future, these gas engines suck! Its time to evolve guys, jobs are leaving America but you can create your job in America... just start studying this type of shit and make 150k a year in 6 years. Look how good china is doing.. its because the money goes there for cheap labor for the most part but think about how they dont have shit and want what america has.. so they are learning new things and investing heavily into alternative power sources and the like. But here we can let the Chinese pollute there county with our new technology manufactured there so we can all afford it here lol Sounds bad but our country is in the shitter and we can do so much yet alot of people are still messing with this gas stuff.

Now i just need to evolve so i dont have to poop anymore... dont you feel primitive taking a dump like a cow lol. Get off the video games and tv and get to work and school, take control of your life. Make money and run shit. Its great, no drugs or alcohol needed.

Success is the best high you will ever get.

Could be installing your clutch for the first time, motor swap, or selling your fist 100 products. It feels good right!?btw Im 23 now started the company at 19 out of high school with about $1000. My parents make like 35k a year and work for people so we never had funds. You can do anything you want in America just think before you act and assess everything. Never took a class on anything.. yet.. need some electrical and mechanical engineering classes now.

opps sorry this turned out to me a motivational speech.. dang another business idea... haha

[ronmcdon]

Toyota bought another 7% in subaru, and rumor has it theyre planning on buying the rest of it as well.

I think this will be good for subaru, and that they should offer AWD as an option, to get better gas mileage. shit they did it during the 90's!

personally I'm a little skeptical. Toyota is first and foremost a very commercial company dedicated to the bottom line. driving enthusiasts are generally in the norm, and its just not all that profitable to cater towards them.

What I see is Subaru becoming more commercial. Their cars becoming more pedestrian and generally more Toyota-like. This is actually exactly the case with the current gen Impreza (even test drove the base model and the wrx). To me, the situation is depressing. I really don't have faith in that company any more.

[Omarius Maximus]

Yep, subaru is trying to get rid of its "quirkiness" in order to attract mainstream buyers. The tribeca went from crazy to bourgeois in a single facelift. The impreza sedan might as well be an awd corolla. I think Toyota is already starting to corrupt Subaru...

As far as the US is concerned...Chrysler is in deep doo doo...but that's not really surprising.

Gas prices have really caught GM and Ford with their pants down...SUV and Large truck sales have tanked. The General needs to get the volt out asap...and start building some smaller cars. I think they've had their eggs in one basket far too long (suvs, large trucks).

It's surprising how many huge trucks I've seen for sale in my neighborhood. A lifted F250 with huge tires put up the sign a couple of days ago down the street...

All these idiots selling their suvs and trucks in mass aren't doing themselves a favor...resale has taken a crap on these things..

[g6civcx]

I am ready for Tesla as soon as they fix the gearbox problems.

[neukin]

I am ready for Tesla as soon as they fix the gearbox problems.

True, the torque from electric motors is amazingly abusive. Thought they were already on Version 2 from another manufacture and had that problem solved.

[exitspeed]

I am ready for Tesla as soon as they fix the gearbox problems.

They announced they fixed that issue a month ago or so.

[axiomatik]

Toyota making US manufacturing changes (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iUv-ML5OgIm6ZjvtpkRNt8h4AFNAD91R1D3G0)

DETROIT (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. will start producing the hybrid Prius in the U.S. for the first time as the Japanese automaker adjusts its U.S. manufacturing operations to meet customer demands for smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles.

The company said Thursday it will start producing the Prius in 2010 at a plant it is building in Blue Springs, Miss. Toyota already builds a hybrid version of the Camry sedan in Kentucky, but this will be the first time the Prius, which has been on sale for more than a decade, will be built outside of Asia.

The company also said it will suspend production of the Toyota Tundra pickup at its San Antonio truck plant and the Toyota Sequoia sport utility vehicle at its Princeton, Ind., plant for three months starting Aug. 8 because of declining demand. Next spring, it will stop producing Tundras in Princeton and will consolidate all truck production in San Antonio.

The Princeton plant will now make the Toyota Highlander SUV, which originally was scheduled to be made in Mississippi.

Toyota said it made the moves as U.S. demand for trucks and SUVs continues to decline. Toyota's U.S. sales fell 21 percent in June compared with the year before, an even steeper decline than the industrywide slump of 18 percent. Sales of the Tundra were down 54 percent while sales of the Prius fell 34 percent as Toyota failed to keep up with growing demand.

"The truck market continues to worsen, so unfortunately we must temporarily suspend production. But this good news about production mix demonstrates our long-term commitment to our North American operations and to our team members, suppliers and communities where our plants are located," Jim Wiseman, vice president for Toyota Motor engineering and Manufacturing North America, said in a statement.

Toyota said the workers who build its trucks and SUVs as well as the Huntsville, Ala.-based workers who build engines for the Tundra and Sequoia will stay on the job through the shutdown. The San Antonio plant employs 1,900 people, while the Princeton plant employs nearly 4,500.

Toyota has 13 North American plants and two under construction in Mississippi and Ontario. The automaker has more than 43,000 workers in North America.

Toyota's moves follow production cuts at General Motors Corp. and other automakers. GM said last month it is cutting shifts, reducing assembly line speeds and temporarily idling seven factories because of declining consumer demand for truck-based vehicles. Chrysler LLC has announced plans to close a minivan factory and cut a shift at a full-size pickup factory, while Ford has said it is cutting production for the rest of the year.

Toyota's U.S. shares rose 85 cents to $92.33 in morning trading in New York.

I just don't understand the halo around Toyota. Sales drop 21% and their stock goes up by almost a dollar? Meanwhile, Ford and GM post sales losses nearly identical to Toyota, and their stock drops by 50%.

[exitspeed]

I don't know either. Everyone thinks Toyota can do no wrong. I'm glad to see them cutting production on the Tundra and Sequoia.

[Future240]

perhaps its the image. When i think of GM and ford I think big car, big truck which makes me think big gas bill. When I think of toyota or any japanese car manufacturer I think small and fuel effeceient. Perhaps america sees it in the same light as I do. When I first heard about GM closing plants one of my first reactions was " I wonder what toyota and honda are going to do hybrid wise"

[axiomatik]

see, that's the problem. people's perceptions are stuck in the early 90's. Take a look at these EPA mileage figures for Toyota's trucks:

Sequoia: 13/18 (city/hwy)
Tundra: 13/17
4Runner: 14/17
Tacoma: 15/18
FJ Cruiser: 16/20
Highlander: 17/23
Land Cruiser: 13/16
Sienna: 16/21

Even the V6 Camry only gets 19 mpg city, and the Solara 18 mpg city. That's 10 different models that get less than 20 mpg city.

[exitspeed]

All the GM cynics please read this.

Autoline on Autoblog with John McElroy

WHAT IF GM COLLAPSES?

Anyone watching the auto industry these days is acutely aware that General Motors is hurtling towards disaster. It's burning through cash reserves at a rate that will put it in Chapter 11 sometime next year, no matter how much management says "that's not an option." It's still being crushed by its legacy costs, yes, even after concessions from the UAW. And it just witnessed its own finance arm, GMAC, essentially pull out of the automotive lending business.

What was an emergency just a month ago has now blossomed into a full blown crisis. Unless something is done quickly, General Motors could collapse.

This is why we're hearing talks of a potential GM-Chrysler merger, and of a bailout from the Federal Government.

John McElroy is host of the TV program "Autoline Detroit" and daily web video "Autoline Daily". Every week he brings his unique insights as an auto industry insider to Autoblog readers.

Some people say, "They deserve it. Let them die." But those people may not fully appreciate what that entails. If GM collapsed it would have national security consequences, it would gut the U.S. manufacturing base, and it would cripple many hi-tech American companies.

Some people say, "They deserve it. Let them die."
Even in its damaged state, GM is still a gigantic corporation that plays a significant role in the American economy. Everyone focuses on its manufacturing plants and the tens of thousands of blue-collar jobs they provide, but its importance to the economy goes well beyond that.

GM is a leader in the use Information Technology and buys billions of dollars worth of IT equipment. The same goes for cutting-edge virtual reality displays, advanced electronics, and the latest simulation software. It probably has the most work-stations of any company in the country. And it is pioneering the development of smart materials (memory shape alloys and polymers), advanced batteries, fuel cells, and telematics.

More importantly, GM is a major recruiter of the kinds of people who know how to develop and work on these things. The company employs all kinds of engineers, scientists, and researchers. And it hires its best and brightest minds mainly from American universities.

The cynics say that foreign automakers will fill in the gap. But that's not the case. While Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai are to be commended for building engineering campuses in the U.S., all their advanced technology is developed in Japan and Korea. They are not going to transfer it here. Even the Priuses that Toyota will build in Mississippi will be built from kits imported from Japan. None of the advanced hybrid components will be built in the USA.

It would be cheaper for the Feds to bail GM out than to let it go under.
The cynics also overlook the fact that if GM were to collapse it would pull dozens upon dozens of critical suppliers down with it. Suppliers who also sell to Ford, Chrysler and all the transplants. A move like that would cripple Ford, kill Chrysler, and damage the transplants.

The cost to the Federal Government would be huge. GM would dump its pension obligations on the already stressed Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. Unemployment compensation would soar. And it would destroy the tax base of many communities that depend on GM plants to pay for their schools and local governments. In other words, it would be cheaper for the Feds to bail GM out than to let it go under.

The cynics say GM management brought this all upon itself and they don't deserve to be rescued. Yes, management did make mistakes. So did the unions. So did the government regulators.

I say, so what? It's not worth punishing so many innocent people, companies and communities for the mistakes of a few.
###

[Future240]

^That is a most excellent point. Gm is basically helping hold the country up. If it falls then we are a large step closer to do the same.

[exitspeed]

^That is a most excellent point. Gm is basically helping hold the country up. If it falls then we are a large step closer to do the same.

And with our economy the way it is right now...a full blown depression is probably not far behind.

[40daws]

What puzzles me is the stock prices. Ford and Gm emplyoee directly or indirectly
millions of people. There stock is worth almost nothig.

A share of Google is $359.69.

Google does not have 30 years of legacy parts.
Can't change oil on a Google. Can't wax and wash one.
Can't stretch Federal Tires on a Google.
Google employs about 10,000 people.

?

[exitspeed]

What puzzles me is the stock prices. Ford and Gm emplyoee directly or indirectly
millions of people. There stock is worth almost nothig.

A share of Google is $359.69.

Google does not have 30 years of legacy parts.
Can't change oil on a Google. Can't wax and wash one.
Can't stretch Federal Tires on a Google.
Google employs about 10,000 people.

?

Oh god I could answer that all night. They did a lot wrong. A LOT. They put all their eggs in a one basket (Trucks/Suv's). While Honda and Toyota saw into the future and made more fuel effecient cars, the big 2.5 just kept doing what they were doing and not planning for any potential crazy markets.

Like I said, there's FAR more to it then that. Unions being the second biggest problem.

But all of that is beside the point right now. What Mr McElroy touched on is the trust. Reality isn't always any easy pill to swallow. But we need to do something to keep GM from going under. Period.

[OptionZero]

Yes, a professor of mine remarked that big 3 bankruptcy talk was all a clever way to get out of paying the insane union demands.

[SimpleS14]

So what do you guys think about the Big 3 asking for more money?

I honestly think Chrysler should die, break up and be sold off.

Ford and GM should survive, but probably file bankruptcy, restructure and put UAW out of the mix.

[exitspeed]

So what do you guys think about the Big 3 asking for more money?

I honestly think Chrysler should die, break up and be sold off.

Ford and GM should survive, but probably file bankruptcy, restructure and put UAW out of the mix.

I agree on Chrysler. Sell Jeep (only brand worth a damn) and be done.

GM and Ford need money. The US needs GM and Ford to survive. If gm were to just go out of business our country would no doubt plummet into a deep depression. You're talking about millions of people loosing jobs.

[SimpleS14]

So I'm reading this post: Goodbye-amino? Pontiac could kill G8 ST; become one-car brand - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/15/goodbye-amino-pontiac-could-kill-g8-st-become-one-car-brand/)

I find it quite interesting and a possibility. Reduce Pontiac to just to a one car brand or just a trio of cars (alla Buick).

Some made a comment in that post that I always thought was interesting. He suggested the consumer line of GMC seize to exist and leaving the core commercial line in business. GMC = General Motors Commercial

[kingkilburn]

While I would like to see the G8 ST survive simply not building it is good business sense.

GMC should have been removed from the lineup decades ago. Why make two Chevys?

I think Pontiac needs the G8, a small IS300 sized four door, and the Solstice(keep the coupe though). Axe every thing else.

[TurDz]

I am ready for Tesla as soon as they fix the gearbox problems.


Don't count on it... I'm betting Tesla will be gone by next summer. I knew a few of the people who were a part of those job cuts... hurts because he was only there for a couple months.



On another note, WTF is up with great auto manufacturers pulling out of the best motorsports?

- Honda leaving F1
- Subaru and Suzuki leaving WRC
- Porsche and Audi leaving ALMS
- Honda pulling out of AMA

When I read that Subaru was leaving WRC my heart dropped for a second...

[kingkilburn]

Those are all companies who's fame and notoriety is driven by motor sports. They will return to those series or join others.

[exitspeed]

So I'm reading this post: Goodbye-amino? Pontiac could kill G8 ST; become one-car brand - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/15/goodbye-amino-pontiac-could-kill-g8-st-become-one-car-brand/)

I find it quite interesting and a possibility. Reduce Pontiac to just to a one car brand or just a trio of cars (alla Buick).

Some made a comment in that post that I always thought was interesting. He suggested the consumer line of GMC seize to exist and leaving the core commercial line in business. GMC = General Motors Commercial

Actually it's a good move to make Pontiac a Niche brand.

#1 they can't sell the brand. It doesn't have any cars that are really worth anything to anyone else that are solely Pontiac's. The G8 is a Holden essentially and GM can sell it as a Chevy if they wanted ie and Impala.

However one car is a little slimmer then I'd think would be even worth them keeping the brand for. It should be two cars. The Solstice, which they should keep because of the Kappa platform and using that sae platform for the 3 Series sized future Caddy. And of course the G8. That car is just too good to ignore.

GMC should ONLY be trucks, both commercial AND consumer grade. y suggestion would be to get right of the Silverado as a Chevy which will help Chevy as a brand in 2010 when the new CAFE regs kick in. And axe the Sierra and the new truck would be a GMC SIiverado. It'll give the truck that much more of an edge knowing that it comes fro a commercial truck brand.,

[stiizy]

Don't count on it... I'm betting Tesla will be gone by next summer. I knew a few of the people who were a part of those job cuts... hurts because he was only there for a couple months.



On another note, WTF is up with great auto manufacturers pulling out of the best motorsports?

- Honda leaving F1
- Subaru and Suzuki leaving WRC
- Porsche and Audi leaving ALMS
- Honda pulling out of AMA

When I read that Subaru was leaving WRC my heart dropped for a second...

Wow

Subaru is WRC i don't know how they can pull out

[TurDz]

Da Da Da Duuuuuuuhhh...

NSX. CANCELLED!!!!!!! :(

Banzai burned? Honda reportedly kills confirms NSX is DOA - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/17/banzai-burned-honda-reportedly-kills-nsx/)

[Future240]

Da Da Da Duuuuuuuhhh...

NSX. CANCELLED!!!!!!! :(

Banzai burned? Honda reportedly kills confirms NSX is DOA - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/17/banzai-burned-honda-reportedly-kills-nsx/)

Honda just made alot of people mad. If they dont want to produce this super car, perhaps they can make a scaled down version, powered by a boosted I4 or v6 to hang with toyo/suby, hyundai and nissan.