Great Engine Debate!!

[Jeff240sx]

Ok.  Here are the ground rules.  No biting, pinching, scratching or kicking.  No hits below the belt.  I want a good, clean fight.
Also, keep flames to the minimum.  This debate is based on ONLY the 2JZ-GTE and the RB26DETT.  DO NOT BRING OTHER ENGINES INTO THIS DEBATE!  If you cannot handle this... simply do not post.
To the fun part:

Toyota 2JZ-GTE
2997cc
DOHC I-6
8.5:1 CR
[email protected]
325ft/lbs [email protected]

Nissan RB26DETT
2568cc
DOHC I-6
3.386x2.902 bore x stroke
8.5:1 CR
[email protected]
293ft/lbs [email protected]

Debate.  Which is a better engine overall?  Drag racing, most power possible, most power on stock internals.  Reasons and examples.
I'll chime in after a few posts!
-Jeff

[AKADriver]

If you're going to use the RB26DETT's artificial 280PS rating, then you have to use the 2JZ-GTE's artificial 280PS rating as well, not the actual rating used for US-market cars.

There's no real limit to any engine.  At least, what limit exists, noone will actually reach it.  If tuner A can make X horsepower from a 2JZ-GTE and Y horsepower from a RB26DETT, that doesn't mean either engine is truly "at its limit", they're just at the limit of what people have done with them so far.

As for comparing dragstrip times, top speeds, etc. in addition to the previous comment, remember that you're also comparing the chassis in that case.  The HKS 180SX is a lot different from a back-halved Supra is a lot different from a Skyline.

Now, my totally subjective opinion: If I get just the engine by itself in a crate, give me the 2JZ-GTE.  If I have to take the chassis with it, give me an RB26DETT.

By the way there's a good thread like this in the Freshalloy Skyline GT-R forum.

[Tyler Durdan]

I disagree...the 2jz-gte engine is more responsive to tuning.  What I mean is that if you were to put the same setup on both engines, you will get more out of the 2jz vs. the rb26.  For instance, (this is just an example) an intake could get you 4hp out of the 2jz and 2.5hp on the rb26.  If you throw in the drivetrain though, I would take the awd of the rb over the 2jz.

damn good thread topic on a side note.

[chickenmanq]

RB26:

for the simple reason that Toyota parts often cost more when fixing common replacement items.

[Jeff240sx]

OK.  We are not discussing the chassis that comes with the engine.  Because I feel the Supra is at a disadvantage, being nearly 2 tons and all.  Also, it is a RWD layout, as opposed to AWD.  So, as I said, engine only!
More people need to chime in on their views before I give mine.  But I will say that the reason I came up with this is because Osofast (from FA) has a drag s14a.  It has had both engines, and he is kinda hush hush about his setup.  In older pictures he has a 2JZ, but I don't know what he has now.  I don't care, actually.  I was just intrigued that he has had my 2 favorite engines.  
Anyway... back to the debate!!!  Carry on.
-Jeff

[SilviaDriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ Oct. 09 2002,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Toyota 2JZ-GTE
2997cc
DOHC I-6
8.5:1 CR
[email protected]
325ft/lbs [email protected]</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i was thinking..i thought 280hp was the max any car in japan can go..then y does the 2JZ have more than 280 but its still in japan??

[AKADriver]

In Japan it's rated according to the limit at 280PS (276hp).

The power figures he quoted are for later US and European models w/VVTi I think.

It's basically the same engine worldwide, it's just underrated in Japan to comply with the agreement.

By the way it's not a steadfast rule, just an agreement among manufacturers and the edge of a tax break. The new Subaru Impreza S202 is rated at 320PS (316hp) bone stock.

[Thorpedo]

rb is totally superior because its from dat skyline yo and you know that japanese super car tuner that took out the 2jz and put in the rb to make it go fast yo &nbsp;oh shiet &nbsp; &nbsp;the 2jz is fo civic pussies mayan. &nbsp; &nbsp;but seriously, id have a rb over a 2jz anyday, even its just because its nissan &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Jeff240sx]

Anyone else think it's odd that Top Secret removed the NA turbo engine, and instead of dropping a 2JZ into it, dropped the RB26DETT? &nbsp;This was their infamous "Top Secret Supra" btw.
-Jeff

[ca18guy]

I think TS was looking for attention more so then superior performance.

[RedSuns]

As far as max power from the two engine I would have to say the 2JZ would have more...only due to it higher displacement that the RB.....i think even with both engine bored out the 2JZ would still have more........

just my 9.34527472538 cents

[Jeff240sx]

Lets get some numbers in here! &nbsp;Stock engine power, qualities that one engine possesses that the other doesn't. &nbsp;
I post an engine topic, get 91 views. &nbsp;Someone posts F&F2 topic, gets 240 views. &nbsp;What the hell is wrong with this picture!?!?
-Jeff

[camppain]

not another sr vs ka! <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>

in in regards to how an engine makes more power from certain mods you also have to look at how its restricted from the factory. <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

what can the supra run hp wise on stock internals somewhere near 700 hp? and isnt the bottom end bullet proof? well to a point.

whats that one guy running on his skyline so far in all the videos? cant the rb take 700 on stock internals alos?

i dont follow these engines so closely cause i dont have a chance for either of them..........yet <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

ohh shit we got more smileys! <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/baaa.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':baaa:'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/music.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':music:'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/turn.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':turn:'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky2.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':evil:'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>

[adey]

We need more info on the two engines to make a better comparison. What are the bores and strokes?
How high can you rev a 2JZ-GTE? I've heard of RB26DETTs bored out to 2.7l revving past 11,500 rpm... at which point you can make *huge* power...

I don't necessarily think that either engine is 'better' than the other, but the impression I get from what I've heard/read/seen is that the RB26 is more popular. That could be because there's more support or fixing it is cheaper or because there are more parts available for it, but what's an engine without the transmission and drivetrane? The two go hand in hand, and when you factor that in, the RB26 easily wins out.

[RedSuns]

i would also like to know which engine can produce the most power on stock internals.....my from point of view i think the 2JZ can take more(stock internals)......but how long will this power last...i also think that a high powered RB will last longer than the high powered 2JZ..........

[Tyler Durdan]

Here is my thoughts on the 2jz-gte engine.

Best engine on the the market bar none. &nbsp;Just my opinion.

With 550cc/min fuel injectors that are more than capable of supporting up to 500rwhp, a twin sequetial turbo setup that provides great low end torque, and high hp in the second cam. &nbsp;These also can support up to 500rwhp. &nbsp;Stock internals have been seen to handle 800rwhp. &nbsp;It's not hard to find a supra with 800rwhp with little to no reinforcement on the stock short block. &nbsp;Throw in TRD...damn good perfomance company backing it up. &nbsp;They sponsor practically every type of racing there is...Japanese GT, CART, Formula 1, SCCA (including rally), and drag such as NHRA/IHRA/NIRA. &nbsp;Not to mention all of TRD's parts are considered factory and warrantied as factory...nismo doesn't do this for the rb26dett. &nbsp;If you want to throw in the drive train...I would love to have an awd r34 gtr...but I would pass it up for the rwd supra. &nbsp;The trannies alone make it worth the pass...Getrag (german company that manufactures the oem trannies in most imports) did one hell of a job for the 6-speed tranny in the mkIV. &nbsp;They have been proven to hold strong up to once again 800rwhp...just the addition of a strong aftermarket clutch is needed.

I have no dislikes to the rb26dett...I just love the 2jz-gte that damn much...mkIV is a car I would love to own, and I do plan on buying the mkV when it's released...I will be out of college by then.

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tyler Durdan @ Oct. 11 2002,02:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The trannies alone make it worth the pass...Getrag (german company that manufactures the oem trannies in most imports) did one hell of a job for the 6-speed tranny in the mkIV. They have been proven to hold strong up to once again 800rwhp...just the addition of a strong aftermarket clutch is needed.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, but they sure sucked at making them for the 3000GT VR-4. &nbsp;The 6-speed blew after 50k miles... almost on time. &nbsp;You could set your odometer by it.
-Jeff

[Tyler Durdan]

This is a one sided debate so far...I praise the 2jz-gte, and no-one has made any counter points for the rb26dett. &nbsp;If something doesn't come up, I start posting points for the rb.
<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/music.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':music:'>

[DragonReborn214]

Lol. Go over to www.supraforums.com and do a search. The people over there actually own these cars, so its interesting to hear their arguements. There are like 10+ guys there with GT-Rs.

[mrdaniel]

Both are straight engines - good

RB engine seems to suffer from excessive cylinder heatsoak which makes them prone to cracking - bad

2JZ does not suffer from this - good

RB - 2.6L - Not bad

2JZ - 3.0L - Better

GT-R - AWD Drivetrain (Transmission is a significant part of the engine...just as much as hp is important so is the transfer of the hp) - this is good

Supra - RWD Drivetrain - not bad

GT-R has a transmission like a rock...HKS triple disk carbon clutch with a properly matched flywheel and it can handle high HP application, this is also true of the 2JZ series supras..which not to mention have a slushbox that can handle high hp...why this is good...i don't know...(Maybe soccer moms wanna get to the field and back in 10 seconds?)

Overall they're pretty even...if a GT-R makes 1000hp..thats 500 at each axle...if a Supra is making the same number...1000 at the rear...I hope you got a ford 9 and some strange axles on that badboy.

I'd just take the 2JZ because it displaces 400cc more than the GT-R...it really just comes down to that size difference..although a RB25 head on a RB30 bottom end with dual HKS GT3037 turbos would win me over anyday...2.8L monster.

[SR20Fastback]

I would just like to add, that over 20 psi, the stock turbos are out of effeciency, and the injectors cant really deliver over that. Just learned that yesterday at the dyno session with my friend mike &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Then again his car is an auto bpu; RMM Downpipe, GReddy Power Extreme exhaust, GReddy Boost Cut Controller, Blitz Dual Solenoid Boost Controller, HKS Turbo Timer, HKS intake, Wings West front air dam.


and his best pull's were 363 rwhp and 381 rwtq.

[mrdaniel]

yeah at 20psi most stock turbos are out of their efficency range...or at least I'd hope so...although an FC with a 60-1 compressor upgrade & ported housing is good to 18.5psi and can make 325rwhp with a mega streetport....I know this first hand .. shame I got rearended into traffic however.

[wpayne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The trannies alone make it worth the pass...Getrag (german company that manufactures the oem trannies in most imports) did one hell of a job for the 6-speed tranny in the mkIV. They have been proven to hold strong up to once again 800rwhp...just the addition of a strong aftermarket clutch is needed.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
FYI: The R34 GT-R's come with a Getrag 6-speed tranny

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Overall they're pretty even...if a GT-R makes 1000hp..thats 500 at each axle...if a Supra is making the same number...1000 at the rear...I hope you got a ford 9 and some strange axles on that badboy.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

The GT-R rarely has a 50/50 front and back torque distribution. Only in very extreme cases when the rear wheels lose almost complete grip. Once the rear wheels gain grip, it will gradually go back to 0/100 (100 in the rear). It is not a full time 4WD car. The ATESSA ET-S is the AWD system that controls the torque distribution on the GT-R's. The ATESSA ET-S PRO found on the R33 and R34 V-SPEC's and higher models are computer controled and electronially handle the torque distribution unlike the new Subaru WRX STI where you can manually control the amount of torque distribution. The GT-R's drive train was made to drive and be "fun" like a RWD car but with the added stability and grip when needed.

[mrdaniel]

I ment 500 at each on launch...

It's torque sensing...its AWD until it doesnt need to be anymore...

[240zx]

If your talking about stroking the RB then you have to talk about stroking the 2J. Jun Manufactured a 3.3l stroker kit and i know of a person that has a 3.4l 2J, With such displacement loads and loads of power are more than capable. The 2J is ENTIRELY BULLETPROOF except for the wrist pins and rods, other than that 1000 hp on a almost stock bottom end 2J is not very far off. There are already ~875 hp supras on stock bottom ends. The problem with the RB is that your asking people that have not dealt with an engine or know of anyone directly who has played with the engine. The 2J is so popular and just about everything has been done to it. Until the same is done with the RB or someone that has dealt with the RB speaks out, i think this is a one sided arguement.

[Aze85]

The 2jz bottom end is good up to 1000hp stock. the walser supra, the infamous hayabusa killed, has a stock bottom end and it pushes more than a thousand hp. &nbsp;pretty impressive huh? &nbsp;walser supra (www.turboimports.com)
But power isn't everything. &nbsp;Veilside has tuned the skyline to more than 2000hp. I've seen the videao. really impressive huh? &nbsp;they keep their skline at 1000hp for unknown reasons, probably liability reasons. &nbsp;
lets say they both had 1000hp and they race. who would win? THE SKYLINE. it would rape the supra off the line and the supra would never catch up. &nbsp;in autocross the skline would probably win also. the attesa 4wd system is the most technologically advanced 4wdr system in the world. &nbsp;
the 2jz might be able to handle more on stock internals, but that doesnt mean its a better engine.

[Tyler Durdan]

<!--QuoteBegin--Aze85+Oct. 15 2002,10<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aze85 @ Oct. 15 2002,10<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lets say they both had 1000hp and they race. who would win? THE SKYLINE. it would rape the supra off the line and the supra would never catch up. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Negative there chief...the skyline would lose due to the fact of energy loss over the powertrain....two drive shafts to turn means energy loss over the drive train. This is the reason a gsx (awd) eclipse loses to a gst (fwd) in a drag race in complete stock form.

[wpayne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Negative there chief...the skyline would lose due to the fact of energy loss over the powertrain....two drive shafts to turn means energy loss over the drive train. &nbsp;This is the reason a gsx (awd) eclipse loses to a gst (fwd) in a drag race in complete stock form.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ok, first off, the GT-R will might be turning both driveshaft's at the same time, however, this will only do for a few seconds at a time, if that. Also, rarely is half the torque sent up front, only on very hard launches. And what it does lose there, it will more than make up in grip. Grip in a lot of cases are a lot more important than power in a race. If you can go through a corner faster, you can hold a the higher power band and exit the corners with more power and speed.

[wpayne]

However, why are mostly Supra's and NSX's winning in the JTWC(Japanese Touring something Championship?)?

[Thorpedo]

Didnt they ban the use of 4wd in those types of races because it was an unfair grip advantage? &nbsp;i could be wrong

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wpayne @ Oct. 15 2002,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok, first off, the GT-R will might be turning both driveshaft's at the same time, however, this will only do for a few seconds at a time, if that. Also, rarely is half the torque sent up front, only on very hard launches. And what it does lose there, it will more than make up in grip. Grip in a lot of cases are a lot more important than power in a race. If you can go through a corner faster, you can hold a the higher power band and exit the corners with more power and speed.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
First off, I was talking about drag racing cuz I though this is the type of racing he was referring to. &nbsp;And the drive shaft on the r33 gtr will turn through the first two gears more than likely on a drag launch. &nbsp;Let's assume the tires (or slicks) on both the supra and skyline are at the same temp., the energy loss through the driveshaft will cost it the race. &nbsp;It will more than probably pull out in front on the launch, but would be overtaken at the higher end of first gear. &nbsp;

As for the torque transferring back due to the comp., you will again lose energy as it's transferred back to the single driveshaft. &nbsp;This is why awd setups are not popular among drag racers. &nbsp;

As for the cornering part....holding the higher power band has nothing to due with awd or rwd. &nbsp;That is just how your car is tuned. &nbsp;And, with proper suspension...either car could pull 1 g on a skid pad with approriate race suspension. &nbsp;Does it make a difference if the car is awd or rwd at that point...no...1 g is 1g...rwd or awd. &nbsp;The grip will be the same at that point. &nbsp;You add the energy loss through the transferring of torque back and forth...supra would win.

Don't get me wrong....I love awd, but would probably take rwd over it in most cases. &nbsp;Also, this thread has gotten a lot more interesting since you started replying. &nbsp;I'm just making a point for debate...please don't misinterpret this as a flame.

Mark

[Aze85]

If that is true than why is the stock r33 faster than a stock supra? I have the video of professional drivers dragging each car stock.
The HKS drag skyline pulled a 4.379 in the 1/4 mile. I think that it sill use all wheel drive.
Also, Eclipse GSX trannies as well as wrx trannies suk. &nbsp;Evos and Skylines have the best 4wheel drive trannies. &nbsp;You can set the R34 to rear wheel if you want to. &nbsp;what wpayne said was right. all four wheels spin only when there is or would be a loss of traction.
if you are autocrossing both cars can power out of the turns just as quick. &nbsp;I think that both cars are marvels of engineering, but i think the the Skyline is a better car overall.

If the walser supra site isnt working this is the link. &nbsp;www.turboimports.com

[SR20Fastback]

I was always under the impression that the 34 GTR was able to pull a 1g in stock form. Also arent stock supra's only doing like low .9's .91 or so? maybe .93?

[Tyler Durdan]

Good to see this thread isn't dead yet!!! <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

I'm saying that you take the two, and match them up hp for hp, and torque for torque, the supra should win according to physics. &nbsp;Enertia states that things at rest tend to stay at rest, and you all probably know the rest. &nbsp;If you have two drive shafts to turn, instead of one, you are going to lose energy over the plane due to it's resistence to rotate. &nbsp;You will lose more energy trying to turn both driveshafts on awd vs. the one on the rwd. &nbsp;According to this, the supra would win...this being that the tires on both cars have been properly heated up, and same driver in both. &nbsp;

And the r33 gtr was the only skyline to have the ATTESA E-TS PRO awd system. &nbsp;The r32 and r34 came with all time awd.

I know that other factors affect this...such as weight and gearing when comparing the two matched up identical (hp and torque are the same on both cars, along with tires and any other factors).

SR20Fastback....the mkIV could pull .98 lat. g's. &nbsp;Here's some info on all three cars comparison...let's get some debate action on... <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

Mark
Car comparison with data....nissan skylines and the mkIV (http://www.supercars.net/Comp?sourceList=1500&CompList=1500-1503-1502-1940)

[Jim96SC2]

Skyline would win. While the 4wd system would take out a bit more HP, it's a variable system which isn't in use all the time (from my knowledge). You see, the ATTESA system gets the best of both worlds, 4wd in limited traction situations and the power of plain old RWD normally. Knowing this, the Skyline would jump out into the lead, the ATTESA system would shut off somewhere around the 60' mark, switch into RWD mode and the Skyline should be able to keep the lead.

[chickenmanq]

Yeah, but that's talking about straight-line. &nbsp;(Not to get off topic) &nbsp;Regardless of the engine, if they're both around 1000hp, and they race a certain number of laps, I believe it's over three, the AWD will continue to pull away.

I can't remember which automaker demonstrated this. &nbsp;It might have been Ferrari, but I don't think that's right. &nbsp;Anyway, the point being, any RWD with even hp when raced with an AWD with even hp around a track will lose. &nbsp;It has to do with all four tires grabbing and gripping, versus the over-time loss of RWD having to actually push the front tires. &nbsp;It has been shown. &nbsp;Anyone remember that? &nbsp;I might try to find it on the net. &nbsp;But that's why they outlawed the AWD's.

[Jim96SC2]

Audi lost their AWD in the LMP900 cars too.

[SR20Fastback]

Wait wait wait! The R32 and R33 were awd as well??? I was under the impression that the only awd Skyline was the R34 and the R32 GT-S??

[Tyler Durdan]

Alright guys...I guess I will drop my argument if this many believe and/or know the awd system of the skyline would take an evenly matched rwd supra. &nbsp;damn good points made...I have to say I know a lot more about the awd system in the skylines now. &nbsp; <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

SR20Fastback...yeah, it was the r32 and r33 as well as the r34 that had the awd set up...this is one of the reasons the skyline is really popular...that and the rb26dett.

What car would you guys want with zero miles though...a r34, or a supra...both completely stock?

Mark<----gives up his argument, but with doubts.

[SR20Fastback]

God I feel so cheated, I always thought the 32 and 33 were rwd. What makes the 34 so much heavier? I mean it cant all be because of how long it is, can it?

[AutoDestruct]

I now like the R33, just for the selectabiliaty of its AWD. &nbsp;But besides that just like I think 240zx? said the 2jz is cooler because we just might be able to own a supra before we are gezzers. &nbsp;That's really it, &nbsp; Displacment, feasiablity of ownership, and cost would actually determine this for me. &nbsp; would I think the skylines Rb is less of a engine? &nbsp;hell no, i just can't get one. &nbsp;Plus isn't the skyline way more tuned than the supra over in japan. &nbsp;This could account for the higher HP num's and the lack of other problems. &nbsp; Correct me if i am wrong but hasn't the RB series been around for a couple years more anyway. &nbsp;This could be the defining factor. &nbsp; <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/yin-yang.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':yingyang:'>

[Aze85]

I am really glad that no one is flaming other people or being asses. <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> If i could choose one, i would get the r34. &nbsp;even though it didn't win the fastest street car challenge hosted by option auto (the white amemiya FD3S won) its still an awesome car. &nbsp;I think both supra and skylines are great cars, but i guess its just a matter of preference.
The rd26 won the debate. YAY. Long live the Skyline~! &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[MOTOREX_SR20]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents and give you guys some food for thought......
Although I work for MotoRex, I am not biased on this subject. &nbsp;I enjoy all high horsepower sports cars, but both of these cars have their strong points. &nbsp;It depends on what you are looking for. &nbsp;
At the Ultimate Street Car Challenge this year, one of our customer's R33 competed against a good friends of our's Supra. &nbsp;The R33 put out 509 hp at all 4 wheels (with cats) and placed 1st in emissions. &nbsp;The Supra pulled around 620 and did horrible in emissions.
At the drag strip with the same cars with the same setups, the R33 ran 11.6 back to back while the Supra's fastest run was at 12.6. &nbsp;Both drivers are excellent and the R33 ran an even faster 11.3 last weekend.
Bottom line, the Supra with 100+ horsepower advantage was still a full second slower in the quarter than the R33.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aze85 @ Oct. 19 2002,9:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am really glad that no one is flaming other people or being asses. <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Agreed.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aze85 @ Oct. 19 2002,9:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The rd26 won the debate. YAY. Long live the Skyline~! <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Hold your horses there slick...I just conceed that the skyline's drivetrain was better...I have yet to see any points to dismiss or equal my points on the 2jz-gte...more debate to come...yeephee... <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[S14_tat]

hi i am new to this forum but i have been just seeing whats goin on for a while now. and this topic is very interesting. i am a hugh skyline fan. i find it interesting on how all of you people refer the GT-R as a AWD, when its really just a 4WD. the ATESSA ET-S PRO is bascially a 4 wheel drive system that has 6 traction sensors. 2 in the diff's and 4 on each corner. each sensor senses for slip at the rate of 10 times a second. then it would split the torque to which ever wheel needed. but this car is still RWD bias. thats jsut the way it was set up. and for the reason why that supra with 100hp over the GT-R still lose by a whole second on teh 1/4 is simply becuase once you get over 400hp its really hard to put power down on the ground. the GT-R will just take off while the supra is still spinning its tires. this example has been seen in the best motoring international videos. the skyline took the supra off the line by 3 cars, and kept on pulling. the stock GT-R's in japan run's 12.7 to 12.9 and can run a 13.4 in the rain. now about the engine. i would take a RB over the 2JZ anyday. the RB is a motor with more bore. the stock redline is at an amazingly high 8000 RPM. the torque for the car is not bad either. the torque number is very close to the number of hp. plus the motor instead of using a complex senquential unit has 2 ball bearing cermanic blade turbos. this way there is no lag when the two different sized turbo switches off and its spools extremely the quick. plus its got 6 individual trottle bodies and it has variable valve timing on the exhuast cam. overall i think the RB is a better motor. even though the supra's 2JZ is extremely stout. even more so then the RB. but i would pick a high revver over a torque monster anyday.

[wherezmytofu]

<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>2jz vs rb???...what? &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> the vh series is nissans best engine......street stock wise, the vk is the best......
vk45dd > all stock nissan engines &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'>

[S14_tat]

but the RB is more avaliable then teh super are VH found on the R390. i think the point of this debate is to compare the two engines that each company is known for

[wpayne]

Tyler, sorry but i haven't checked back on this thread in a long time. Don't worry about flaming, I know your just sharing what you know <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>. Looks like other people sorta took what I already was gonna say so I'm gonna try and not repeat stuff.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
As for the cornering part....holding the higher power band has nothing to due with awd or rwd. That is just how your car is tuned. And, with proper suspension...either car could pull 1 g on a skid pad with approriate race suspension. Does it make a difference if the car is awd or rwd at that point...no...1 g is 1g...rwd or awd. The grip will be the same at that point. You add the energy loss through the transferring of torque back and forth...supra would win. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Being in the power when you exit a corner will give you more readily available power. Doesn't matter what engine you have, you want to be able to keep the power. As for both car's pulling 1g with race suspension. I could be wrong but a GT-R would probably have more grip with a race suspension and AWD then the Supra with race suspension and RWD. Keep in my the GT-R was made to drive like a RWD car except in extreme cases when pushed over the limit. If the car was made where it would lose power/speed do to the AWD system, then why not just have a RWD drive-train? I'm sure the GT-R is faster with it's AWD system even if it loses a little power to the transfer of energy. A supra would have to try and not lose grip or spin the wheels and have to cut back on power keep going. According to your article (this is not a thread about drive-trains? hehe) then, if both cars were the same with just a different drive train, the AWD can just stay with the RWD if it doesn't lose traction(and not have to transfer energy to the front). If this is true, then what is the purpose of the AWD drive-train? If you do not push to hard and lose traction, there is no need for it.

As for comparing the two engines in a drag race, it's very hard. Different drive train and chassis. As for the engine, I'm not gonna pretend to know stuff.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Wait wait wait! The R32 and R33 were awd as well??? I was under the impression that the only awd Skyline was the R34 and the R32 GT-S?? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

The R32-34 GT-R's ALL had AWD, and it's not 4WD as some of you have been refering to it as. EVERY R33-34 V-SPEC or better model has the ATESSA ET-S PRO. All the R32 GT-R's and base R33-34 GT-R's have just the ATESSA ET-S (not PRO).

Also, I'm pretty sure the the R34 is lighter than the R33 but not by much, that was one of the designer's goals.

Also, the turbines in the R32 V-SPEC II and R33-34 N1 models came with steal blades, not ceramic.

Again, just want to say you guys are all great people <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> !

[S14_tat]

if i'm not mistaken isn't AWD means all drive wheels are always spinning? this is why subaru always brags about subaru all wheel drive? and that 4 wheel drive means that 4 wheels can drive but its not constant? this i learned in my transmission class in my engineering school. so i'm pretty sure thats how it goes. so that would make a GT-R a 4WD. and a evo or a scooby AWD.

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S14_tat @ Oct. 22 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if i'm not mistaken isn't AWD means all drive wheels are always spinning? this is why subaru always brags about subaru all wheel drive? and that 4 wheel drive means that 4 wheels can drive but its not constant? this i learned in my transmission class in my engineering school. so i'm pretty sure thats how it goes. so that would make a GT-R a 4WD. and a evo or a scooby AWD.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
actually the gtr is awd..using a transaxle gear box like the subaru...its altiablah(sp) is for 4ws...four wheel steering &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S14_tat @ Oct. 22 2002,7:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but the RB is more avaliable then teh super are VH found on the R390. i think the point of this debate is to compare the two engines that each company is known for</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/squint.gif vh>rb

[240racer]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is a one sided debate so far...I praise the 2jz-gte, and no-one has made any counter points for the rb26dett. &nbsp;If something doesn't come up, I start posting points for the rb.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I think it will be a one-sided debate forever. &nbsp;Somebody give me a reason why I haven't seen a high-powered RB26 in my neighborhood recently. &nbsp;I have seen a few supras in person with more then 600rwhp. &nbsp;Also, if the skyline was worth bringing here, they would have, notice they didn't. &nbsp;Anyway, sure you can make 1000 hp on a skyline, but it happens on the supra a whole lot more often, there are 1000hp kits. &nbsp;the 2jz will make 300hp/liter, stock internals. &nbsp;Plus it's cheaper to make 800-1000hp on a 2JZ then a RB26, that's my personal favorite reason and why I would have to get the 2JZ whenever it fits the budget and the space no matter what car (or truck) I am building.

[SimpleS14]

RB26DETT

There is something about Nissan racing breed motors that I like.

[SR20Fastback]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GT specR @ Oct. 23 2002,9:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RB26DETT

There is something about Nissan racing breed motors that I like.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
My exact point, that I could not put into words &nbsp;<img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[wpayne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it will be a one-sided debate forever. Somebody give me a reason why I haven't seen a high-powered RB26 in my neighborhood recently. I have seen a few supras in person with more then 600rwhp. Also, if the skyline was worth bringing here, they would have, notice they didn't. Anyway, sure you can make 1000 hp on a skyline, but it happens on the supra a whole lot more often, there are 1000hp kits. the 2jz will make 300hp/liter, stock internals. Plus it's cheaper to make 800-1000hp on a 2JZ then a RB26, that's my personal favorite reason and why I would have to get the 2JZ whenever it fits the budget and the space no matter what car (or truck) I am building.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Answer this question: How long has the GT-R been sold on the US domestic market? NEVER. Just recently it has become a reality to own a GT-R in the states thanks to the importer MotoRex. People over here have had a LOT more time and experience with the Supra over here. That's why there are "1000hp kits" for the Supra. It is and might always be easier to upgrade the Supra here than the GT-R. If you were in Japan, you might be saying the complete opposite. Even though the Supra and parts are readily available, the RB26 is the choice for most tuning enthusiasts. I'm sure there is a valid reason why.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if i'm not mistaken isn't AWD means all drive wheels are always spinning? this is why subaru always brags about subaru all wheel drive? and that 4 wheel drive means that 4 wheels can drive but its not constant? this i learned in my transmission class in my engineering school. so i'm pretty sure thats how it goes. so that would make a GT-R a 4WD. and a evo or a scooby AWD</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I could be wrong but this what I've learned over the years. First of all, when the car is moving, you are always gonna have all 4 wheels spinning.With 4WD, they will always be spinning at the same rate. 4WD is where power is distributed to all 4 wheels evenly full time. Like a locked diff. Monster trucks use this setup for the maximum amount of torque to go through the wheels, you need this when your going through dirt and mud. That is why you see big mud trucks with 4WD or 4x4 stickers on them. AWD is where there is a varying amount of torque going to the two axles, not a full time 50/50 split.

[S14_tat]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240racer @ Oct. 23 2002,11:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it will be a one-sided debate forever. Somebody give me a reason why I haven't seen a high-powered RB26 in my neighborhood recently. I have seen a few supras in person with more then 600rwhp. Also, if the skyline was worth bringing here, they would have, notice they didn't. Anyway, sure you can make 1000 hp on a skyline, but it happens on the supra a whole lot more often, there are 1000hp kits. the 2jz will make 300hp/liter, stock internals. Plus it's cheaper to make 800-1000hp on a 2JZ then a RB26, that's my personal favorite reason and why I would have to get the 2JZ whenever it fits the budget and the space no matter what car (or truck) I am building. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>


i find that to be very untrue. japan never brings over its top guns to the states anyways. how long were they holding out the WRX's on us? the full race bred versions. the STi's the different versions all the up to version 6,and the awesome 22b. now does that mean the 2.5 RS's are better then the WRX's in japan? i don't think so. no way. also does that make the quad throttle bodied SR20DET found in the nissan pulsar GTi-R motors are inferior to the B13 sentra SE-R's single throttled SR20DE? nope. or how bout their bluebird (altima's) which are powered by SR20DET and have AWD? nope i don't think so either. you see the states never gets any of hte good stuff. you know why? most people here can't drive. this country is the only country in the world where automatics are soo loved. most people in this country simply can't handled such machines. just like the EVO. its finally coming to the states. but it was never here before and all we got was the crappy lancer, and mirage. does that mean its better then the evo becausc it was never released here? nope. another reason why the GT-R never made it was becuase the turbo was configured on the right hand side of the engine bay. in order for them to bring it to the states and make it into a left hand drive. they would need to reconfigure the whole system. nissan does not want to bother with all the trouble esp when they weren't sure if such a car would sell. look at how the supra got killed off the market, along with the RX-7 FD's and the Z32's. and if you look at all to top tuners in japan, like top secret, signal, veilside. they all have GT-R's with over 1300 whp thats right. over 1300 on all 4 wheels. if you go to any GT-R meetin in japan. if your GT-R has less then 700hp they look at you funny. all in all. the supra is king in the states. but only the GT-R will be known as godizilla. it was deemed unstoppable by many car manufacturers. the GT-R was the main reason why the japan group A endurance racing series is now defunct. the GT-R won around 56 out of around 60 of the races. it totally destroyed the competition. the tom supra finally was able to beat the GT-R in the JGTC in 94 becasue that was the first year they elimated the GT-R's attessa ETS pro.

[wpayne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the GT-R was the main reason why the japan group A endurance racing series is now defunct. the GT-R won around 56 out of around 60 of the races. it totally destroyed the competition. the tom supra finally was able to beat the GT-R in the JGTC in 94 becasue that was the first year they elimated the GT-R's attessa ETS pro. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ahh, that's why they don't win anymore. I was wondering why because the GT-R has the superior drivetrain and engine combo.

Thanks for enlightening me <img src="#/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>.

[S14_tat]

yeah taht was the first year without that drive train. the so the R32's weren't doin too well on its first year without it. the year following that they introduced the R33 in 95. with the R33 they started winning again. same deal when the R34 came out. in fact the R33 actually participated in the le man's 24 hour race. too bad both of them suffered from mechanical problems and was forced to retire. after that, they never participated again. hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S14_tat @ Oct. 23 2002,02:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you see the states never gets any of hte good stuff. you know why? most people here can't drive. this country is the only country in the world where automatics are soo loved. most people in this country simply can't handled such machines.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I agree with you on this statement in so many ways. &nbsp;My drive home from work on the highway everyday proves this statement as a fact. &nbsp;It's always some redneck truck driver tailgating instead of going around, some ricer reving, un-needed rear end from not paying attention to the road, or a mother doing 50 in a 70 in the fastlane. &nbsp;I even saw a lady turn right onto an exit ramp into oncoming traffic from the highway. &nbsp;

Ohh yeah...Wpayne...I was just saying 1 g as an example. &nbsp;I meant that if both cars could pull 1g with proper suspension set up, the 1g accounts for the grip...at least I think it accounts for the grip.

I would still take a 98 twin turbo supra over the skyline anyday. &nbsp;I just love the engine and looks of the car that much. &nbsp;Don't get me wrong, I would sh*t bricks for weeks if I got a skyline, but I would take the supra over it.

So what would you guys take....supra or skyline?

[S14_tat]

well i guess to each his own. but i personally think a stock supra mark IV is down right ugly. the modded ones looks nice as hell. but i perfer that "i'm goin to eat you and spit your bones back out look" that the R34 has. now that car just looks mean~!

[Jeff240sx]

As many 240 owners know, when you have tons of power, you need tons of suspension mods to put that power on the ground. &nbsp;Sorry MotoRex dude, but you didn't give me enough info to sway me that the drivetrain is a full second faster. &nbsp;I have a hard time putting ~200hp to the ground, without suspension mods... hate to be in a 600+hp Supra w/o mods. &nbsp;
Also... who said the HKS skyline ran a 4.something 1/4?? &nbsp;Top fuel dragsters, 7000hp and all, BARELY run that.
Revs vs. Torque? &nbsp;Can't the 2JZ rev to 10k pretty readily? &nbsp;I know Osofast revs at "9k+" rpm... and he has a baby 2jz, at like 900-ish hp. &nbsp;
-Jeff

[S14_tat]

of course you can make a 2jz rev higher then stock. but the point is, a RB will always rev higher if it had the same treament. its simply in the engines displacment. the 2jz is more of a stroke motor, then the RB is more of a Bore motor. but if it comes to torque vs. rev's. i'd take revs anyday. torque i think is a pretty big enemy once you hit really high hp becuase you'll be smoking your tires in every gear. i'd rahter have a less aggressive launch and have my top end take over.

[Jim96SC2]

Excellent debate so far.

I think we've strayed from engines to drivetrains to body styles. It's all in what you want. Personally I like the supras styling in all. I do think the GTR has a sexy front end though.

I'm gonna agree on top end HP vs bottom end torque. Top end allows it to be a better road race motor.

[RB24_S14]

Ok. &nbsp;Here are the ground rules. &nbsp;No biting, pinching, scratching or kicking. &nbsp;No hits below the belt. &nbsp;I want a good, clean fight.
Also, keep flames to the minimum. &nbsp;This debate is based on ONLY the 2JZ-GTE and the RB26DETT. &nbsp;DO NOT BRING OTHER ENGINES INTO THIS DEBATE! &nbsp;If you cannot handle this... simply do not post.
To the fun part:

Toyota 2JZ-GTE
2997cc
DOHC I-6
8.5:1 CR
[email protected]
325ft/lbs [email protected]

Nissan RB26DETT
2568cc
DOHC I-6
3.386x2.902 bore x stroke
8.5:1 CR
[email protected]
293ft/lbs [email protected]

Debate. &nbsp;Which is a better engine overall? &nbsp;Drag racing, most power possible, most power on stock internals. &nbsp;Reasons and examples.
I'll chime in after a few posts!
-Jeff


RB26DETT has 320hp stock i dont know where you get your numbers from.

[ThatGuy]

7 Years.

7 FUCKING YEARS, just so you can tell someone who hasn't even been on Zilvia in the last year, that you don't agree with his facts.

You fail, kid. You fail HARD.

This ancient text is now locked. :lockd: