Question for the experts..

[freakishhair]

Hi guys,
  I am new, and have some questions about 240's. I want one, but I do not have alot of knowledge about them. I do not want to come in here like most newbs and say i'm gonna get this and that and be the best to beat the local turbo civic or whatever.   My Question is this, When I do have my 240 what would be the best upgrades to purchase for this car to achieve large numbers. I was thinking about doing a SR20 swap, but I was wondering if it has that much of an advantage over the KA when doing a large turbo?  My ideal power range would be around 450 to begin with once I get the car... Please don't flame, it's just a goal.  But Could I be advised on what would be the best mods and how much they would cost to accomplish these numbers? With 450hp I would get 12's all day long I assume. Please correct if I am wrong.  Thanks in advanced guys!  Again.. please no flames...

[/etc/shadow]

What is your goal? Drag car? Autocross? Street car?

Remember that when you buy a used car, you can't just plop an engine in and call it a day. There are wearing/worn out parts on any used car - struts, shocks, coils, bushings, brakes, tires that must be replaced. If you try to throw 450 horsepower at a ten year old car with original factory suspension and brakes, expect to be crying when you smash it into a pole.

240sx handling is dynamite, I'll give you that, but the brakes leave a lot to be desired, and old coils don't do a very good job at holding your tires to the pavement consistently enough to be able to gun it with 450 hp.

[Kreator]

450hp ain't something "to begin with". It's more of an ultimate goal for the drag people around here. Unless ofocourse you got about 10-12 grand laying around that u can't put to better use. If i were you, i'd go with some mild set up and then upgrade as you go.

Personally I preffer ka, but both engines are very good. Main arguments on this are that ka has .4L more, while sr has more aftermarket and is a safer engine than a non rebuilt KA(although at 450hp you'll have to have a bullet proof engine, so no difference)

[luke91]

450whp will send you into the 10's all day long!
450whp might be possible on a stock-block SR20, but NOT all day long.  

--luke

[luke91]

Well, 11's definately, maybe 10's.
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

[BEISSEN]

Ok like alot of peps have covered already.Your goal 450hp thats alot of money.If you have about 12gs for the ka it will be alot mor possiable but for about 8-10gs for a sr you can have that power.The ka is alot more money due to being a non turbo motor.At 20psi on enjukus kit you can have 12.2 with bad 60ft times with good high 11's.So you make the call.you can get a s13 blacktop sr and put the following.

sr=2600.00+
Fmic=900.00+
boost controler=60.00+
Greddy Package"metal head gasket.stiffer spring,and rocker arm stoppers=480.00 shipped
injectors 550cc-740cc=480.00+
clutch=320.00+
turbo timer=90.00+
Z32 maf=?.??
ecu reprogramed=?.??

your looking at about 8-10gs fora real good motor on a sr"this is before new pistons and rods and a port and polish and boreing"

Ka24e/de

same as above plus about 3-4gs in a good rebuild.

[xhdriver]

im not flaming you here but what makes you want 450 horse? did you ride in a car with 450 horse and now you cant live without it? i dont understand when people say they want "X" horsepower. my car dynoed 240hp 253tq and i love it for a street car and i definatly want more power. i dont know what my point is really, i just think its wierd because alot of people say they want this much power or that much power but dont know what they are talking about.

anyway to answer, all you need is boost! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[uiuc240]

to add to the previous post...

The 240 is a wonderfully balanced car. &nbsp;Adding the power of the SR or a turbo-KA only increases that balance by making it light on its feet. &nbsp;However, 450 hp is far beyond overkill. &nbsp;Before you start making plans about how to make this kind of power, you need to decide what you're going to do with it. &nbsp;If all you want is straight line performance, go buy a Mustang...seriously. &nbsp;You can get them to weigh less than 3000 lbs, and 500 hp is just a phone call to Summit away. &nbsp;I just don't see the point in destroying the entire reason this car exists (turning). &nbsp;And believe me, 450 hp in a 2600 lb car is going to be downright scary in the turns...when boost hits. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cry:'>

Eric

[turbo240sx]

you only need 360 or so at the tires to run 12's with slicks,
im all ka24 det, sr i dont like that much. dont get me wrong they are good motors but you get more tourque from a ka which has a longer stroke. 450 hp is 11.8 or lower with slicks.
450 is alot of hp. thats stupid fast. take your ka24de block rip it apart forged pistons 8.5:1 o ring the head 72 lb msd injectors and 20 psi of boost and some nasty cams and a port and polished head, yeah youll be there in the 12;s easy

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BEISSEN @ Oct. 20 2002,11:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok like alot of peps have covered already.Your goal 450hp thats alot of money.If you have about 12gs for the ka it will be alot mor possiable but for about 8-10gs for a sr you can have that power.The ka is alot more money due to being a non turbo motor.At 20psi on enjukus kit you can have 12.2 with bad 60ft times with good high 11's.So you make the call.you can get a s13 blacktop sr and put the following.

sr=2600.00+
Fmic=900.00+
boost controler=60.00+
Greddy Package"metal head gasket.stiffer spring,and rocker arm stoppers=480.00 shipped
injectors 550cc-740cc=480.00+
clutch=320.00+
turbo timer=90.00+
Z32 maf=?.??
ecu reprogramed=?.??

your looking at about 8-10gs fora real good motor on a sr"this is before new pistons and rods and a port and polish and boreing"

Ka24e/de

same as above plus about 3-4gs in a good rebuild.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I thought it was already covered before that turboing KA and sr comes out to pretty much the same in the long run.

Plus from what i heard, duy put his 600hp monster (450turbo+150nitrous) for around $8000. So there goes "sr build up cheaper than ka" argument.

PS. 3-4 for a rebuild <- that's what a shop will charge you. If you do it yerself you can pull it off for $1500

[adey]

wow... 450hp final goal... my final final goal is a relatively measly 300whp or so, on a SR20DET.
My shorter term goal (since I don't expect to realistically get 300 in the next 5 years) is 200hp to the wheels on an SR.

What can I say, I don't need to make up for any inferiority complex elsewhere. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[turbo240sx]

machine work for a ka, if you put it together. its only $1000 bucks, thats bored, head ported and polished, crank redone,
$600 for pistons brand new, and the turbo kit if my math is right it looks like only $4600- $5000 bucks to run 12 sec 1/4 mile w 400 plus hp. not to beat on you or sound rude but 8-10 grand sounds a little expensive.

[boosteds14]

HOLD UP HERE

do you want 450horsepower at THE MOTOR or at THE WHEELS

at the wheels it would be 383rwhp. i dynoed 389rwhp so i am above that 450hp at the motor mark.

that would be a 11sec car with slicks
u just need a tuned fuel system to run 20+psi of boost and a built bottom end. and CAMS are a must
i have a 3-angle port and polish but i may be trashing it soon(if not fixable)

u need to spend alot but not too much initially. but down the road u will be spending alot. TRUST ME.

[sykikchimp]

I hate to keep bringing up Duy's ex-car, but he had nothing done to the head. &nbsp;it was Stock. &nbsp;Just lots of boost, and good tuning, and a rebuilt bottom-end. &nbsp;Also Chris mays car has almost the power you are talking about at ~430whp. &nbsp;He is on his 4th motor (KA) and he says the power he has now is almost to much to drive. &nbsp;He put the car sideways on the interstate on ACCIDENT.. &nbsp;that really is an insane amount of power in our cars. &nbsp;NOT a beginner hp figure. &nbsp;a novice driver that kind of power will kill himself.

[boosteds14]

damn. just got news that my head is bad.
ill be going with stock.

all the power is made from the head and turbo. not the block.

duy's car(now Bill's) has stuff done to the head now. too bad it blew up

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ Oct. 22 2002,2:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also Chris mays car has almost the power you are talking about at ~430whp. He is on his 4th motor (KA) and he says the power he has now is almost to much to drive. He put the car sideways on the interstate on ACCIDENT.. that really is an insane amount of power in our cars. NOT a beginner hp figure. a novice driver that kind of power will kill himself.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
EXACTLY what I'm saying. &nbsp;2750lbs/450hp = 6.1 lbs/hp. &nbsp;A Porsche 911 Turbo can't touch that number. &nbsp;And it has AWD. &nbsp;You're talking about power-to-weight ratios that only superbikes and real racecars deal with. &nbsp;And racecars don't ride on street tires. &nbsp;And when you drive them, you wear Nomex and a helmet and you're strapped to a real seat with a harness and embraced by a cage. &nbsp;I'm sorry, but I think the power levels you're talking about are simply insane for a "street" car. &nbsp;But go right ahead. &nbsp;Just don't start post-whoring the day you stuff your shiny JDM machine into a bridge abutment or a guardrail. &nbsp;I won't have pity. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>

Eric

[Foxcolt]

"stands on soapbox"

If I may chime in,

I personally believe that making huge power is a process, not determined by money but decided by will and dedication. I know a few people making big power in their respective cars and none of them came out like that right off the bat. Most took years to finally be where they are now. I know a lot more people that are on their way to big hp numbers and each and everyone of them knows that they need to get the basics down before stepping up the ladder. If anyone is really serious about making these kinds of modifications to a car then questions like this one posted would not be asked in the first place. A wise man once told me "Learn how to go fast then learn how to go faster" <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'> . And that's true in every sense of the word. People with these kinds of goals cannot be "told" how to accomplish them, it's impossible. Everyone reaches his/her own goals a different way. And what one person does to make XXX amount of power might not work for the other thats why questions like "How do I make XXX amount of power" are never anwsered.

Here's the point of all this. If anyone here is really serious about doing this or doing that then they must be willing to sit down do the research and figure things out on their own.

"Gets down from soapbox"

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'> Haven't done that in a while.

Jed <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':devil:'>

[uiuc240]

Amen, brother Jed.

Eric

[freakishhair]

Thanks guys for all the replies and no flames! &nbsp; I am trying to really plan this car out, I know it will be alot of power. But I want to take it slow and do it right. I am trying to do all the research possible. Hopefully I can find someone around the atlanta area who will be able to help me work on this machine. &nbsp;I am in the process of looking for a 95+ 240sx. I will notify you when I finally purchase it. &nbsp; &nbsp;I assume buying a SR20 would be my best bet as far as reaching those numbers. I wouldnt have to rebuild the engine, would I? &nbsp; Or maybe I should stay with the KA and rebuild it? Would it be equally as strong and potent?

[sykikchimp]

Derek Greaser on FA has a 450hp SR, or rather.. HAD a 450hp SR. &nbsp;For that kind of power, I would recommend a a rebuild on either one.. &nbsp; but this is comming from speculation. &nbsp;I have never owned either, &nbsp;KAT or SR...

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ Oct. 22 2002,11:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Derek Greaser on FA has a 450hp SR, or rather.. HAD a 450hp SR. For that kind of power, I would recommend a a rebuild on either one.. but this is comming from speculation. I have never owned either, KAT or SR...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
horse power= money

either way, you will be spending alot of money to reach numbers like that. it goes for KA-T or SR.

[bing]

well it's gonna cost you at least $5000 for a driveable 95+, then 8-12 grand to put that kind of HP down, Then another 5-7 grand to handle it (brakes, suspension, harnesses, clutch) then you still only have a really fast car.

you then need &nbsp;a few more grand into the body and paint, skirts, kit whatever,

so if you have $20,000 or more, plus enough to cover a lot of insurance for the beast. plus maintenace. plus labour, plus WHEELS, plus any inconveniences. and about 2 years with nothing else to do then do it up.

[bing]

Boosted i bet you got somewheres like $20,000 in your car including initial purchase, and i be tyou could not have planned it all out and have it go as planned.

not realistic at all, a streetable 450rwhp 240sx w/o nitrous unless you are very talented or rich.

[boosteds14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bing @ Oct. 24 2002,11:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Boosted i bet you got somewheres like $20,000 in your car including initial purchase, and i be tyou could not have planned it all out and have it go as planned.

not realistic at all, a streetable 450rwhp 240sx w/o nitrous unless you are very talented or rich.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
haha, i have every reciept
and it adds up more than i have.

more like 28k now because of the rebuild which i though was going to be under warranty.

i will say this, I WILL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.
Nothing but headaches and aggrivation in this car. and all i get out of it is to look at the car in the garage and drive it scared to death that something is going to go wrong.

if this dude wants a 450hp car. get a supra.
or an american car. through a charger on it and maybe some nitrous and go rip around in that

my buddies Nova has atleast 500hp and has a little amount of money in it compared to me.

[nrcooled]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 22 2002,04:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow... 450hp final goal... my final final goal is a relatively measly 300whp or so, on a SR20DET.
My shorter term goal (since I don't expect to realistically get 300 in the next 5 years) is 200hp to the wheels on an SR.

What can I say, I don't need to make up for any inferiority complex elsewhere. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
200 hp in a SR is a downpipe exhaust and boost controller away....shooting for 300 will keep you busy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nothing but headaches and aggrivation in this car. and all i get out of it is to look at the car in the garage and drive it scared to death that something is going to go wrong.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Amen to that and I am not making the hp numbers anywhere near those of boosted. &nbsp;You always have to tweak and tighten and replace. &nbsp;Constantly worried when my wife takes the car out for a drive to the store that she or the car will not come back in one piece. &nbsp;It is a headache <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> &nbsp; Don't get me wrong I love my car....I'm just warning you about what you will have to put up with

[silviasaint]

well if you want an honest opinion to really reach that number i would suggest the ka... and dont get me wrong i drive an sr and am trying to build it right now... but if i had to do it all over again i would maybe go ka... i mean i am sleeving my sr, rods, pistons, stand alone dfi, basically nothing on my motor will be stock.... now why would i need to spend the extra 2500 bucks to buy the sr just to strip it down.. if i knew i was gonna go this far with it i would have just built the ka ... for 300hp or 350 or so i would say sr for sure... my sr with just basic bolt ons ( fmic, boost controller, intake, clutch, exhaust) i run 12.8 @109... the only problem is speed is addicting and that just is not fast to me any more... l

so like i said if you want 450-500 build the ka... i mean hell your gonna build it anyway.. and if you want an sr to hold that and be strong then i would build it too... not saying 450hp will kill an sr, i would just feel better having it built but that is preference