Hurricane Katrina Law Suits

[KA-T_240]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22571349/?GT1=10755


One person is suing for $3 quadrillion and 247 for over $1 Billion? seriously WTF? I know it was a bad situation and a HUGE natural disaster.

[jrmiller84]

Let's do some math here...

The US Census estimates the worlds population to be around 6,643,180,910 people (as of this posting).

The "quadrillian" dollar amount they are speaking of is $3,014,170,389,176,410.

That means that every single person in the world would have to pay roughly $453,723 to satiate this dollar amount.

To put that in perspective...

That's the equivalent to putting a $453,723 house for every person in the world in New Orleans, and a damn nice one too (at least where I live).

The average US families income in 2002 was $36,764. It would take the average household 12.34 years to pay this off if they gave ALL of their income to that cause, which is impossible.

Simply put, it'll never happen.

[axiomatik]

idiocy should be a capital offense.

[!Zar!]

That ninja is just throwing out the biggest number he knows.

Hell, they weren't making but $3hr before katrina now each of them want 300k.

Ain't that some shit.

[azndoc]

That'$ retarded $hit.

People are $o lame the$e day$.

[DOOK]

I'm not paying a fucking dime for those people... they had warning to leave... they chose not to. I feel bad that it happened, but those type of lawsuits just go to show you, they want a free ride.

[SimpleS14]

*shakes head*

My inquiring mind wants to know this....were the levees federal government or state government property?

[HyperTek]

I hate how people try to take advantage from bad situations.. I feel sorry for thso people , im sure its tough when they loose someone, but damm forreal, money wont bring them back so why trip.. You didnt have that money in the first place, so what makes you deserve it now? Just get enough to get you back to where you where before and chill out.

[eastcoastS14]

the 3quadrillion dollar lawsuit is either an attempt to make a statement or someone who's just out of their mind.....

the fact is that this was more than just a tragic disaster....it was the American government totally collapsing on every level causing irreparable damage to the lives of those who lived there...there is no amount of money that can give these people back what they lost and they wont get close to what they deserve cause they are poor minorities that the government could give a fuck about.....shit happened in 2005 and the people there can barely even get trailers to live in, how long do you think it would take to fix shit up if it was a bunch of white ppl living in palm beach? And I can only imagine the outrage if it took 3+ years to fix the california wild fires

these ppl deserve billions

[lovely240]

so what about those that lost their houses in the fires in socal?? that was a trajedy too...this is once again another excuse to sue, that amount is too damn high! I think Imma sue them for psycological damage from reading this thing and almost having a heart attack at how much they are demanding!

[SHIFT_*grind*]

Freeloading: I want everything, and I want you to give it to me. It's the American dream.

[axiomatik]

*shakes head*

My inquiring mind wants to know this....were the levees federal government or state government property?

the levee system was built by the federal government, by the US Army Corps of Engineers.

[azndoc]

Okay if it is to make a point, then the point has already been made numerous times.

But if it is just for the monetary value of it all to get rich off of a sad and tragic situation then it's fucked up. I doubt hurricane katrina aimed at the minorities when she decided to hit LA. Hurricanes hit there all the time, people who LIVE there know that shit. If you tell me that if I go into a certain neighborhood that I will get shot at, then I seriously doubt that I will go there.

The fact of the matter is that yeah the government fucked up and they do so a lot of the time, you should depend on yourself and not the government to save your ass all the time. I don't. If these lawsuits go through and somehow win, all you are doing is taking away funds that could be used to prevent or help out future government funds for tragedies such as this.

[S13Boosts]

I hate how people try to take advantage from bad situations.. I feel sorry for thso people , im sure its tough when they loose someone, but damm forreal, money wont bring them back so why trip.. You didnt have that money in the first place, so what makes you deserve it now? Just get enough to get you back to where you where before and chill out.



im keeping my money BUSTAS:hug: think about it...what if something happens to us? you think people over there gon atleast or TRY to pay for us? so why Pay something they never had? WORD...

[eastcoastS14]

Okay if it is to make a point, then the point has already been made numerous times.

^^ apparently it hasnt been made enough considering that area is in basically the same state as it was in 2005

But if it is just for the monetary value of it all to get rich off of a sad and tragic situation then it's fucked up. I doubt hurricane katrina aimed at the minorities when she decided to hit LA. Hurricanes hit there all the time, people who LIVE there know that shit. If you tell me that if I go into a certain neighborhood that I will get shot at, then I seriously doubt that I will go there.

The hurricane obviously didnt aim for minorities....but the people who live there play a huge role in the course of action that is taken. plenty of people live in tornado alley in the mid west and have their homes destroyed by tornados but it doesnt take them more than 3 years to get a house rebuilt....as I said before Im willing to bet it wont take until 2010 for people who lost their houses in the socal fires to get new ones....but in New Orleans nothing has changed .....do you understand how ridiculous that is??? that 3 years later its just as fucked up as it was right after the hurricane....this isnt some 3rd world country we are talkin about, its somewhere in the US...and why? cause the US govt could give a fuck about poor ass black communities....the US govt has the money to fix New Orleans but they wont spend it or at least not until they can get everyone out and turn those neighborhoods into high priced realestate and permanently displace all the previous residents

The fact of the matter is that yeah the government fucked up and they do so a lot of the time, you should depend on yourself and not the government to save your ass all the time. I don't. If these lawsuits go through and somehow win, all you are doing is taking away funds that could be used to prevent or help out future government funds for tragedies such as this.

why should the American people be so apathetic towards the governments fuck ups? Is no one to be held accountable for their actions? The government fucked up and now people are dead, they lost their homes and neighborhoods and whole ways of life....The US government applogizes with its wallet so....3 years later its time for the US govt to take some responsibility and cough up some cash for these people. 1billion dollars each is not gonna happen (even though a human life is priceless) but the US govt has enough money to compensate these people. You say dont rely on the government? who are we supposed to rely on in natural disasters? what the fuck is the point of the government if we cant rely on them to take care of us and keep us safe in times of need?? Are we to hold the poor and elderly who dont have cars or other ways of transportation responsible for evacuating themselves during a hurricane of this scale....it was the governments duty...they fucked up royally, now they gotta pay to make it righ, which is exactly what they havent been doing

[DOOK]

compensation is in order... 3 bazillion is not... that is just ignorance and greed.

[azndoc]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/08/20070829-1.html

Unless their completely bullshitting the matter then I'll admit I'm wrong about the subject.

Yes, tornadoes and wildfires do affect communities also. But the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of the times, the communities themselves come together to help re-build. Now if the residents of NO don't want to come together and help with the rebuild process then what do you expect other people to do. When your car breaks down do you automatically expect someone else to fix it for you or do you try to find ways to fix it yourself first.

Perhaps its just me but I don't expect people to hold my hand when I cross the street. Its just me.

Money is being given to people of the tragedy, but money can't be thrown at the problem.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2852688

[steve shadows]

even if they won their cases...we are fucked

haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjZBOCAgR64

[DOOK]

again, it's a terrible situation... my feeling however is if you live in tornado alley, you expect tornadoes. if you live where they have to build flood levies... you expect floods. if you live at the base of a volcano, you fucking expect lava to burn your ass. It is a shitty deal for the rest of the country to have to pay to rebuild that city, it fucking sucked anyways, i've been there. If you choose to reside where you have risk of natural disaster, i'm sorry, but that is on you partially. Compensation IS in order, but not over compensation.

[eastcoastS14]

^^ yes however the situation in New Orleans is different....you are talking about a place with levies put in place by the Army Core of Engineers with flawed designs...The USACE put them in place and told people they were safe knowing they couldnt withstand water at a certain hight and volume but put them in place none the lesss.....so by your analogy if you live at the base of a volcano and the government puts in place a wall and tells you it will with out a doubt stop the lava from hitting your house with holding the info that under certian conditions it will fail and once it does fail does nothing to help evacuate you away from the lava...i would say the govt is responsible...not to mention that if you're born into a broke family, and grow up broke....its not exactly easy to pick up and move and once you got a family it can be damn near impossible

[DOOK]

by my anology... if you live at the base of a volcano, even if the government builds a wall, you have to know man can only "estimate" the power of mother nature. If you stay and put your hopes on that wall, you're a fucking idiot. As i said, compensation is in order, but not at the catastrophic amount those people are wanting. If the government were to rebuild the city exactly as it was, it still wouldn't be enough for those people. Some, it would be, most it wouldn't. they are looking to get rich off a disaster. In my mind, those who looks to profit off misfortune probably don't deserve anything. If i were the governement, I would help those who had realistic requests before those seeking billions.

[VROOOM]

im praying for the big one to hit so cal so i can sue for 3 trillion dollars

[DOOK]

im praying for the big one to hit so cal so i can sue for 3 trillion dollars

case in point... this idiot

someone looking to profit off disaster and misfortune.

[VROOOM]

i was just pointing out how stupid it was. not being serious

[steve shadows]

^^ yes however the situation in New Orleans is different....you are talking about a place with levies put in place by the Army Core of Engineers with flawed designs...The USACE put them in place and told people they were safe knowing they couldnt withstand water at a certain hight and volume but put them in place none the lesss.....so by your analogy if you live at the base of a volcano and the government puts in place a wall and tells you it will with out a doubt stop the lava from hitting your house with holding the info that under certian conditions it will fail and once it does fail does nothing to help evacuate you away from the lava...i would say the govt is responsible...not to mention that if you're born into a broke family, and grow up broke....its not exactly easy to pick up and move and once you got a family it can be damn near impossible

Did you watch the video?

we don't even have enough money for a single government program even if we keep our borrowing from the FED and other intl banks stable and not raise it?

Alone paying out to these crazy lawsuite (which might have merit) but we need to get to the base of the program.

[eastcoastS14]

by my anology... if you live at the base of a volcano, even if the government builds a wall, you have to know man can only "estimate" the power of mother nature. If you stay and put your hopes on that wall, you're a fucking idiot. As i said, compensation is in order, but not at the catastrophic amount those people are wanting. If the government were to rebuild the city exactly as it was, it still wouldn't be enough for those people. Some, it would be, most it wouldn't. they are looking to get rich off a disaster. In my mind, those who looks to profit off misfortune probably don't deserve anything. If i were the governement, I would help those who had realistic requests before those seeking billions.

I agree...all Im saying is then tell the people it may fail under certain circumstances so that they know....dont tell them everything is well and good when you kno it isnt....not only that but the only reason the levies were of such poor condition was because the Corps of Engineers cut corners when desingning them, covering up the inadiquicy of a system that could potentially endager the lives of those in a major city is a terrible approach to a situation and ended up biting a lot of ppl in the ass.

Did you watch the video?

we don't even have enough money for a single government program even if we keep our borrowing from the FED and other intl banks stable and not raise it?

Alone paying out to these crazy lawsuite (which might have merit) but we need to get to the base of the program.

I know a lot of ppl are gonna hate this but....cut military spendin? anyone? Im not talkin about funding things like armor for troops and things like that but we spend billions on bombs and jets that just sit in hangers and a huge amount prototypes....do we really need a budget like the one we have $439.3billion in 2007

[s13Dr1ft]

Todays rain made my shoes bleed and ruined my socks. Im sueing the goverment for 500,000,000,000.99 x5.6

[steve shadows]

even if we did, and cut all other programs IF YOU WATCHED THE VIDEO

we will only have enough money to sustain social secuirty.

ONLY ONE PROGRAM

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/shadowerks/yep.jpg

a lot more than mil spending needs to be cut.

You would rather cut mil spending than cut the endless bullshit welfare programs that keep people eating out of govts hand, not persuing higher education, business, inventive ideas or contributing to the economies production?

[azndoc]

The America dream is to be successful.

I understand there's a majority of people who grow up poor, but fuck you can strive to get yourself out of that poverty. There's too many people looking for handouts, just like this lawsuit.

When my parents decided that we wanted to move from Taiwan to here it was so that I could have a better and more successful life, not so that I can live off or depend on the government for handouts. Fuck that shit.

[DOOK]

I agree...all Im saying is then tell the people it may fail under certain circumstances so that they know....dont tell them everything is well and good when you kno it isnt....not only that but the only reason the levies were of such poor condition was because the Corps of Engineers cut corners when desingning them, covering up the inadiquicy of a system that could potentially endager the lives of those in a major city is a terrible approach to a situation and ended up biting a lot of ppl in the ass.

I agree to a certain extent, but disagree to a certain extent. Who is to say the levies were inadequate or poorly constructed? How can any human being tell you or I the amount of force that was exhibited on them? Just for the sake of argument, assuming the levies were constructed poorly, how can anyone say things would have been ANY different had they been made within spec? The argument remains the same, no man can say that they can beat mother nature, they just can't. If you and i are standing on a bridge and you decide to jump off with a parachute I packed, you jump and the parachute deploys, but a gust of wind carries you into the underside of the bridge, tangling the cords, sending you tumbling to your death. Is that my fault for packing the shoot when i may or may not have packed it correctly for all we know, or is it your fault for tempting fate by jumping off a perfectly good bridge relying on a manmade device to overcome nature? i'm a very scientific person, no one can tell me with 100 percent assuredness that the army core of engineers is at fault for poorly made levies when you and I both know mother nature has no bounds in power.



The America dream is to be successful.

I understand there's a majority of people who grow up poor, but fuck you can strive to get yourself out of that poverty. There's too many people looking for handouts, just like this lawsuit.

When my parents decided that we wanted to move from Taiwan to here it was so that I could have a better and more successful life, not so that I can live off or depend on the government for handouts. Fuck that shit.

I agree totally jack. I'm not against the system that helps those who are deserving of that help, but i am against our system how it currently operates keeping generations after generations living off my tax dollar.

[max2damax]

Todays rain made my shoes bleed and ruined my socks. Im suing the government for 500,000,000,000.99 x5.6

same thing happened to me, but also my pants got ruined so I'm suing for $1http://www.reconnections.net/infinity1.gif

[SimpleS14]

I think compensation should be given in a different form other than money.
Give a person a boatload of money...and they don't have the proper mindset on what to do with it...they are bound to face failure eventually. For example low-income housing and/or displacements in other regions that will insure a basic set job and opportunity to venture into higher education (with the help of FSA) and seek higher quality of life.

This is all just my opinion.

the levee system was built by the federal government, by the US Army Corps of Engineers.

Thank you for that tidbit. I honestly thought it was the state's responsibility for maintenance and any upgrades.

[Matej]

I know a lot of ppl are gonna hate this but....cut military spendin? anyone? Im not talkin about funding things like armor for troops and things like that but we spend billions on bombs and jets that just sit in hangers and a huge amount prototypes....do we really need a budget like the one we have $439.3billion in 2007
+1, Cold War has been over for 17 years.

[DALAZ_68]

its just stupid to build a city...BELOW SEA LEVEL...NEXT TO FUCKEN A BODY OF WATER...

living there is just asking for trouble...

asking for compensation? gimme a fucken break... they chose to live there, they chose not to leave...i think the outcome is the proper compensation they deserve...and now the govt is responsible for the peoples stupidity...? how is the govt responsible for the weather...?

you would think living in those conditions you would have the brains to save what ever you can for emergencies....and i dont wanna here shit like there poor barely make a living...my parents anual...ANUAL income is around 15k a year...if that... and they know how to budget for emergencies...i dont give a damn i was raised on beans and rice half my life...now i have a job and can buy w/e the fuck i wanna eat when and if i want...

being poor isnt a reason its an excuse...the only bum i ever gave money too was one holding a sign saying '' why lie, i want a beer'' , and i bought him that shit...cuz honesty is what works with me...

these fucks asking for this ridiculous amount of mulah are just tryin to hide there stupidity...


and thats MHO

[eastcoastS14]

I agree to a certain extent, but disagree to a certain extent. Who is to say the levies were inadequate or poorly constructed? How can any human being tell you or I the amount of force that was exhibited on them?


I wanted to find the video from the discovery channel or national geograpghic...I forget which when they had engineers point out the apparen design flaws...I mean it is simple engineering and it is pretty easy for engineers to determine the amount of force put on them....if I recall correctly katrina was a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane and the levies were only built to withstand a category 3

I think compensation should be given in a different form other than money.
Give a person a boatload of money...and they don't have the proper mindset on what to do with it...they are bound to face failure eventually. For example low-income housing and/or displacements in other regions that will insure a basic set job and opportunity to venture into higher education (with the help of FSA) and seek higher quality of life.

This is all just my opinion.


I agree with this...I believe those who did lose people in their families should recieve some sort of monatary compensation as they would in any lawsuit and the government should help all those from that area to get back on their feet...build them suitable housing...fuck kill two birds with one stone and make it a public works project to provide americans with jobs and rebuild a community

its just stupid to build a city...BELOW SEA LEVEL...NEXT TO FUCKEN A BODY OF WATER...

living there is just asking for trouble...

asking for compensation? gimme a fucken break... they chose to live there, they chose not to leave...i think the outcome is the proper compensation they deserve...and now the govt is responsible for the peoples stupidity...? how is the govt responsible for the weather...?

you would think living in those conditions you would have the brains to save what ever you can for emergencies....and i dont wanna here shit like there poor barely make a living...my parents anual...ANUAL income is around 15k a year...if that... and they know how to budget for emergencies...i dont give a damn i was raised on beans and rice half my life...now i have a job and can buy w/e the fuck i wanna eat when and if i want...

being poor isnt a reason its an excuse...the only bum i ever gave money too was one holding a sign saying '' why lie, i want a beer'' , and i bought him that shit...cuz honesty is what works with me...

these fucks asking for this ridiculous amount of mulah are just tryin to hide there stupidity...


and thats MHO

theres a lot of hazardous places all around the US that people live this is just one....also there was no definitive evacuation plan...some were evacuated but many got trapped in the city and had no where to go...the government isnt responsible for the weather but agencys like FEMA are responsible for the aftermath and the government is responsible for the clean up which it hasnt done....once again the issue isnt that the hurricane happened and that the government should have somehow stopped the hurricane its that the government failed to warn, failed to protect, failed to secure, failed to repair and failed to do many other things on such a grand scale that it can now be considered utter negligence and a negligent government can and should be held responsible

[VROOOM]

Katrina was the third largest hurricane to hit the US.

[DALAZ_68]

I wanted to find the video from the discovery channel or national geograpghic...I forget which when they had engineers point out the apparen design flaws...I mean it is simple engineering and it is pretty easy for engineers to determine the amount of force put on them....if I recall correctly katrina was a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane and the levies were only built to withstand a category 3



I agree with this...I believe those who did lose people in their families should recieve some sort of monatary compensation as they would in any lawsuit and the government should help all those from that area to get back on their feet...build them suitable housing...fuck kill two birds with one stone and make it a public works project to provide americans with jobs and rebuild a community



theres a lot of hazardous places all around the US that people live this is just one....also there was no definitive evacuation plan...some were evacuated but many got trapped in the city and had no where to go...the government isnt responsible for the weather but agencys like FEMA are responsible for the aftermath and the government is responsible for the clean up which it hasnt done....once again the issue isnt that the hurricane happened and that the government should have somehow stopped the hurricane its that the government failed to warn, failed to protect, failed to secure, failed to repair and failed to do many other things on such a grand scale that it can now be considered utter negligence and a negligent government can and should be held responsible

i agree there are many other places that are hazardous to live at...look at Socal...earthquake land....

twas a foolish man who built his house on sand...(love the movie volcano)

failed to warn? warn about somehting that residence already knew from regular news reports...big hurrican coming...u live below sea level...GTFO now...failed to protect? how...in the world would they protect against the hurricane...?

[cdlong]

I wanted to find the video from the discovery channel or national geograpghic...I forget which when they had engineers point out the apparent design flaws...I mean it is simple engineering and it is pretty easy for engineers to determine the amount of force put on them....if I recall correctly katrina was a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane and the levies were only built to withstand a category 3

that doesn't make it a design flaw, only a design. and yes, there were probably design flaws, because they were designed by humans, and humans have flaws.

i'd like to point out something, the USACoE works for, suprise suprise, the Army. all this talk of cutting military spending will cause more problems like this. i can promise you the reason the levies failed is because they were built to only withstand a class 3 hurricane, and the reason they were built that way and not to withstand a class 5 hurricane is funding. i'm an Air Force civil engineer, the AF version of the CoE. i've always thought, engineers can do anything given enough time and money. you can't cut funding and then complain that the job isn't getting done.

one last comment before i have to kick something. the reason NO is still in shambles is because the economy there was nonexistant. the reason socal will be rebuilt so fast is because people can invest in rebuilding because they know they will make it back because the economy is thriving. there is no incentive to move back to NO other than people used to live there. what industry do they have in NO, burbon street? maybe a seaport of somekind?

the government shouldn't fund rebuilding any houses. how can you live in a river delta, below sea level, in a hurricane zone, next to the ocean, and not have flood insurance?

[ESmorz]

But why... would you ever live below sea level.

That just spells one of these days THIS is going to happen.

[azndoc]

+1, Cold War has been over for 17 years.

Ummm your fucking joking right?

The cold war, did you just say that because the "cold war" is over that we should not keep up with military spending towards technology and stockpile.

GTFO, Seriously?

Where the fuck have you been for the last 6 years? Under a rock? We shouldn't spend the money to upkeep the military that keeps us safe from possible future attacks.

Do you leave your front door and windows open? The you leave your 240 unlocked. Do you not have car alarm. Do you not take any precautions?

[TheWolf]

I wanted to find the video from the discovery channel or national geograpghic...I forget which when they had engineers point out the apparen design flaws...I mean it is simple engineering and it is pretty easy for engineers to determine the amount of force put on them....if I recall correctly katrina was a catagory 4 or 5 hurricane and the levies were only built to withstand a category 3

Actually they were designed for a 4 back in the day. Later on the saffir simpson scale was actually restandardized. And the walls were rated now at a low 3.

Being someone from florida and is familiar with hurricanes.. what the people did in new orleans to prepare was retarded. They should have fled high and dry. Every person. Anyone with half a brain from watching hurricanes knew it was gonna blow up into a helluva storm once it hit the gulf. At the end of the day. The only one that's responsible for your own ass is the head that's connected to it.

[steve shadows]

"stacking worthless paper"

I understand what you are saying azndoc, but we need to pretty much cut about 50% of our current federal programs, delete, yes send it all to the recylcing bin, pull out of Iraq and use more cost effective covert operations to fight possible terrorism (even though I believe a lot of it is manufactured BULLSHIT).

Then we might be able to afford the Army Corps of Engineers fixing the levis, however I am sure a private company could do a much better job of this than the government (let the state's contract them!). That means a more robust economy a better dollar, more work for people. The government just prints money into oblivion and destroys the efficent nature of capitalism in a real form.

[axiomatik]

....Yes, tornadoes and wildfires do affect communities also. But the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of the times, the communities themselves come together to help re-build......

Tornados and wildfires are nothing like Katrina. In the case of tornados and wildfires (at least so far), only a small percentage of the people in an area are affected. For example, a tornado can level one house, while the houses on either side remain standing. Even in the wildfires in SoCal this past year only affected a very small percentage of the population. Yes, hundreds of thousands of people were evacuated (out of 15 million) but how many people actually lost their homes? A few thousand? In those cases, those who were not affected can help the affected ones get back on their feet. Katrina wiped out the entire city. Everyone was homeless afterwards, and the economy was shattered for months. How much assistance can you provide when you are homeless and have no income because your job is gone (and there are no more jobs to be had)?

......If you choose to reside where you have risk of natural disaster, i'm sorry, but that is on you partially......

New Orleans was and is a very poor city, with many people living below the poverty level. For those that are that poor, it is very difficult to move to another city. Can they afford to take days off to go to another city for interviews? Can they even afford to make that trip? Can they afford to just quit their jobs, move to another city, and hope they get a job quickly? How will they pay their bills in the meantime? It is easy to say that they should have just moved, but how many people here on zilvia have actually moved outside of the city they grew up in?

The America dream is to be successful.

I understand there's a majority of people who grow up poor, but fuck you can strive to get yourself out of that poverty. There's too many people looking for handouts, just like this lawsuit.

When my parents decided that we wanted to move from Taiwan to here it was so that I could have a better and more successful life, not so that I can live off or depend on the government for handouts. Fuck that shit.

[edit: removed personal attack]

its just stupid to build a city...BELOW SEA LEVEL...NEXT TO FUCKEN A BODY OF WATER...

.......you would think living in those conditions you would have the brains to save what ever you can for emergencies....and i dont wanna here shit like there poor barely make a living...my parents anual...ANUAL income is around 15k a year...if that... and they know how to budget for emergencies...

The city of New Orleans is hundreds of years old, when it was founded, it was above sea level. It has been slowly sinking due to pumping of ground water, and only within the last century has gotten to the point of being below sea level, by which time it was a major city. Have you ever seen a major city just pickup and move? No, cities don't just relocate.

Do you think that no one in New Orleans saved for an emergency? This emergency is of a scale that has never been seen in the US. I'm sure your parents would be just fine if your entire city was destroyed, your home was destroyed (and insurance wouldn't cover anything), and everyone lost their jobs because the economy was in shambles.

.......i'd like to point out something, the USACoE works for, suprise suprise, the Army. all this talk of cutting military spending will cause more problems like this.

........one last comment before i have to kick something. the reason NO is still in shambles is because the economy there was nonexistant. the reason socal will be rebuilt so fast is because people can invest in rebuilding because they know they will make it back because the economy is thriving. there is no incentive to move back to NO other than people used to live there. what industry do they have in NO, burbon street? maybe a seaport of somekind?

the government shouldn't fund rebuilding any houses. how can you live in a river delta, below sea level, in a hurricane zone, next to the ocean, and not have flood insurance?

lol. Yes, the Army Corps of Engineers built the levee system, but the funding for the construction does not come out of the military budget. The Army CoE is merely the contractor that did the work, the funding came from an act of Congress.

not only only is New Orleans a major shipping port, it is also heavily tied to the oil industry due to its proximity to the Gulf. Before Katrina, the GDP of New Orleans was over $50 Billion.

Also, before Katrina, how many people here knew that you had to buy flood insurance separate from your regular home insurance? probably not many.

........I know a lot of ppl are gonna hate this but....cut military spendin? anyone? Im not talkin about funding things like armor for troops and things like that but we spend billions on bombs and jets that just sit in hangers and a huge amount prototypes....do we really need a budget like the one we have $439.3billion in 2007

Ummm your fucking joking right?

The cold war, did you just say that because the "cold war" is over that we should not keep up with military spending towards technology and stockpile.

GTFO, Seriously?

Where the fuck have you been for the last 6 years? Under a rock? We shouldn't spend the money to upkeep the military that keeps us safe from possible future attacks.

Do you leave your front door and windows open? The you leave your 240 unlocked. Do you not have car alarm. Do you not take any precautions?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

The US government currently spends more money on the military than the entire rest of the world combined (we spend $623 billion, the rest of the world only $500 billion). Combined with our allies, we represent 85% of all military spending worlwide (over $900 Billion). China spends $65 billion, Russia $50 billion, the Axis of Evil only spends $9 billion. I heard on the radio this morning that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are predicted to end up costing $1.3 trillion dollars in total. I think we can afford to trim military spending a little bit and spend our military dollars more wisely.

"stacking worthless paper"

I understand what you are saying azndoc, but we need to pretty much cut about 50% of our current federal programs, delete, yes send it all to the recylcing bin, pull out of Iraq and use more cost effective covert operations to fight possible terrorism (even though I believe a lot of it is manufactured BULLSHIT).

Then we might be able to afford the Army Corps of Engineers fixing the levis, however I am sure a private company could do a much better job of this than the government (let the state's contract them!). That means a more robust economy a better dollar, more work for people. The government just prints money into oblivion and destroys the efficent nature of capitalism in a real form.

yeah, let's give Halliburton a no-bid contract to fix the levee system. they'll over charge the government by 70%, and subcontract the work out to some low-cost mexican construction company and pocket the billions. sounds like a great idea.

[DOOK]

New Orleans was and is a very poor city, with many people living below the poverty level. For those that are that poor, it is very difficult to move to another city. Can they afford to take days off to go to another city for interviews? Can they even afford to make that trip? Can they afford to just quit their jobs, move to another city, and hope they get a job quickly? How will they pay their bills in the meantime? It is easy to say that they should have just moved, but how many people here on zilvia have actually moved outside of the city they grew up in?


Any person who has bettered them self in life had to take a risk somewhere along the line to do it. I'm sorry, but what you just said isn't an excuse in my mind. You have to go outside your comfort zone to be successful, it comes naturally to VERY few people.

[steve shadows]

yeah, let's give Halliburton a no-bid contract to fix the levee system. they'll over charge the government by 70%, and subcontract the work out to some low-cost mexican construction company and pocket the billions. sounds like a great idea.

Why Halliburton? where did you pull that out of ?

[azndoc]

That sure is easy to say, but what have you actually done to build a more successful life for yourself? Don't you work for your uncle? How many times have you said "man, I didn't wake up until 11 today, I was so late for work, my uncle was kinda pissed" If you weren't employed by a family member, you probably would have been fired long ago for being unreliable.


LOLz Damn I feel like someone has been e-stalking me.

Yeah I work for my uncle, and so? I like working for my uncle not because it's easy, it is easy. But I work for him because he needs help and can't afford someone full time to work for him to cut down on company expenses and thus generating more earnings. So that's why I work "half days" alway have and always will be. I had two jobs for a year and took this past six months off to do other shit with my time. His business doesn't require us to be here all the time and on time. It's a matter of okay this is the amount of work that needs to be done today and as long as its done what the fuck do we need to be here early or late for.

Sure I've been late a lot and I will probably continue to from time to time. But if I show up late and I need to stay late then I do. Hence why the people that do KNOW me, know that sometimes I'm here at the office until 8pm at night doing paperwork or what not.

Also don't judge me by what you read on the internet. You don't know me. You don't know what I've gone through in my life or what I'm done and accomplished. I don't assume to know you and your life.

But if you think you do and I believe that your on perhaps on the westcoast somewhere then we can meet up and talk about my life in person since your so interested in it.

**edit nevermind just found out you live in 52240, not the west coast.**
http://www.city-data.com/zips/52240.html

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4594/nbrindlyjd4.jpg

[SimpleS14]

azndoc....e-stalking eh?

I didn't know NO GDP us to be $50 billion...i wonder where most of it went to.

[S13Zilvia_fan]

I have to agree with eastcoast fully. These people definitely deserve millions if not billions. New Orleans is basically a Hazmat zone, clean up is no where near finished, people are still struggling to find a place to live. FEMA did nothing, knowing damn well what was going to happen, and when they did get those people in the stadium, how long did it take them to get basic needs like water and food to them? People were still dying in the fucken stadium, so the govt did no where near what it should have done to help these people.

I live in Santa Barbara, about 45 minutes down south theres a place called La Conchita, google it, this place has been hit with mud slides year after and year, and guess what? no less than 6-8 MONTHS go by and there are new houses built. Hate to say it, but like Kanye said it "George Bush (or the US govt) doesnt care about black people (Or any other poor minority)."

[azndoc]

azndoc....e-stalking eh?


What about it?

[DOOK]

I have to agree with eastcoast fully. These people definitely deserve millions if not billions. New Orleans is basically a Hazmat zone, clean up is no where near finished, people are still struggling to find a place to live. FEMA did nothing, knowing damn well what was going to happen, and when they did get those people in the stadium, how long did it take them to get basic needs like water and food to them? People were still dying in the fucken stadium, so the govt did no where near what it should have done to help these people.

I live in Santa Barbara, about 45 minutes down south theres a place called La Conchita, google it, this place has been hit with mud slides year after and year, and guess what? no less than 6-8 MONTHS go by and there are new houses built. Hate to say it, but like Kanye said it "George Bush (or the US govt) doesnt care about black people (Or any other poor minority)."

it has nothing to do with black or white, the white new orleans people haven't been living it up either. It's the fact that new orleans was a dying city. why rebuild a dying city in what you call "a hazmat zone". it was a dump before, it would be a dump again. All through this thread, I have agreed that compensation is in order, but not OVER COMPENSATION. If someone lived in a dump before, pay them for that dump, not for a million dollar mansion. Maybe extra for their displacement, but most of them have had better circumstances than they would lead you to believe. I know they moved a ton of refugees here to west virginia and they live on a military base. good enough for our soldiers, why not for them?

[codyace]

yeah, let's give Halliburton a no-bid contract to fix the levee system. they'll over charge the government by 70%, and subcontract the work out to some low-cost mexican construction company and pocket the billions. sounds like a great idea.


Out of left field, but they've been doing this in Iraq for the past 5 years....

[cdlong]

yes, but that's not quite right. LOGCAP III, the contracting avenue used to hire Halliburton, is not a no bid contract. the contract was competitively bid at the begining and the winner of the contract is tasked with projects with a set profit margin. and LOGCAP III is no longer used.

LOGCAP IV is a new contract, similar to the Air Force's AFCAP program, where three contractors are involved in a rotating system. unlike the previous setup where the contractor could turn down projects (the ones that weren't as profitable), AFCAP and LOGCAP IV require the contractor to take on each project given or they will miss out on the next cycle also.

yes, it is expensive, but finding contractors willing and able to take on something like this is harder than you think. the other option is to use military personnel to complete these tasks, and that's become impossible with drastic cuts in military personnel and spending.

[eastcoastS14]

it has nothing to do with black or white

thats just a lie.....it has a lot more to do with it than you think. The entire way the situation was handled was different than if it was a white city....the people in NO were treated like criminals at first in many instances and then like refugees after. Does anyone else remember the fact that after the hurricane the army or national guard rolled in and to stop looting they were given shoot on sight orders....Name me one time in your life when youve ever heard something like this or seen white Americans who just survived a national disaster getting guns drawn on them....is it stupid to loot your own community for things other than food and water? yes. Should the US military be giving its soldiers orders to shoot these people with live rounds? NOT rubber bullets....LIVE FUCKING ROUNDS! This type of shit could only happen in a black community cause the country would never stand for it if it happened anywhere else. Finally after a general (wish I could remember his name) showed up started barking orders around and told the soldiers to stop pointing their guns at ppl they started doing more good....whole point of this is as I said before, only in a black community could some shit like that happen.

As for rebuilding people have been displaced by the hurricane incredibly far away from home....no one remembers half of this shit, but after the hurricane they started evacuating people by bus....many of the people who got on the buses were not even sure where they were going but ended up getting taken to shelters in places like Texas or even as far north as New England....seperating them from family members. If you ask my honest opinion New Orleans will be rebuilt but rebuilt into much more expensive housing....the govt will most likely declare eminant domain on the rest of whats left or just price those who are still there out of the market....either way I believe that the neighborhoods that will be built will come with price tags that no one who used to live there could afford

[cdlong]

Does anyone else remember the fact that after the hurricane the army or national guard rolled in and to stop looting they were given shoot on sight orders....

give me a break, get your facts straight. first, the ANG didn't go in to stop looting. they went in to fix stuff, clean up, and distribute supplies. the army and NG are not a police force. they aren't even allowed to be a police force.

and they were not given shoot on sight orders, that means they are supposed to automatically shoot any black people they see. they were given authorization to protect themselves. the people there were desperate and some were trying to loot the ANG supplies, some were getting violent.

eminant domain, my ass. why? so they can build houses no one wants? if people wanted to build houses, they are more than welcome to buy the property from the current owners and build whatever they want. eminant domain is for large scale public projects like roads, factories, etc.

and to comment on an earlier comment about flood insurance. anyone who applied for a mortage in a flood zone should have known about it. most lenders won't give you a mortage without it.

[40daws]

If you ask my honest opinion New Orleans will be rebuilt but rebuilt into much more expensive housing....the govt will most likely declare eminant domain on the rest of whats left or just price those who are still there out of the market....either way I believe that the neighborhoods that will be built will come with price tags that no one who used to live there could afford
__________________
Thats already happened(ing).

[DOOK]

thats just a lie.....it has a lot more to do with it than you think. The entire way the situation was handled was different than if it was a white city....the people in NO were treated like criminals at first in many instances and then like refugees after. Does anyone else remember the fact that after the hurricane the army or national guard rolled in and to stop looting they were given shoot on sight orders....Name me one time in your life when youve ever heard something like this or seen white Americans who just survived a national disaster getting guns drawn on them....is it stupid to loot your own community for things other than food and water? yes. Should the US military be giving its soldiers orders to shoot these people with live rounds? NOT rubber bullets....LIVE FUCKING ROUNDS! This type of shit could only happen in a black community cause the country would never stand for it if it happened anywhere else. Finally after a general (wish I could remember his name) showed up started barking orders around and told the soldiers to stop pointing their guns at ppl they started doing more good....whole point of this is as I said before, only in a black community could some shit like that happen.


you can't say name me one time in this situation, at no time has anything like this ever happened in the united states before now. But as for them having weapons drawn on them, if you owned property in new orleans would you have wanted law enforcement to just stand by and let them steal your shit?

As for the military having shoot on site orders, like was said, that is false information. As is policy, they had do not fire until fired upon orders and as in any hostile situation, of course they are using live rounds. if you were military would you want to go into a hostile situation with rubber bullets? In order for the military to police US soil marshall law would have be to implemented and even then, it just isn't that simple now a days.

Most people are looking at this situation in the completely wrong light. Was it handled completely correctly? Of course not, no situation ever is. Decisions during Katrina were made by human beings with faults, just like every other decision made. I bet all you guys bitching about it wouldn't change places with the decision makers if given the opportunity, so you should just keep quiet really.

[eastcoastS14]

give me a break, get your facts straight. first, the ANG didn't go in to stop looting. they went in to fix stuff, clean up, and distribute supplies. the army and NG are not a police force. they aren't even allowed to be a police force.

and they were not given shoot on sight orders, that means they are supposed to automatically shoot any black people they see. they were given authorization to protect themselves. the people there were desperate and some were trying to loot the ANG supplies, some were getting violent.

eminant domain, my ass. why? so they can build houses no one wants? if people wanted to build houses, they are more than welcome to buy the property from the current owners and build whatever they want. eminant domain is for large scale public projects like roads, factories, etc.

and to comment on an earlier comment about flood insurance. anyone who applied for a mortage in a flood zone should have known about it. most lenders won't give you a mortage without it.

- "Anarchy prevailed in the flooded city of New Orleans and shoot-at-sight orders were issued to check spiralling violence there in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina"

Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said 300 troopers from the Arkansas National Guard had been authorised to open fire on "hoodlums" who have been terrorising the city in the wake of the disaster, feared to have killed thousands and left thousands more stranded and homeless.

"These troops are fresh back from Iraq, well trained, experienced, battle tested and under my orders to restore order in the streets. They have M-16s and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will," Blanco said.

woops!....ANG wasnt there to stop looting you say? Not a police force and not ordered to shoot on sight?

as for the housing thing....you bet ur ass that if they reconstruct those levies up to spec that space is gonna be going for a premium....decent area (with the ghetto part destroyed) warm, on the water....individual home owners are buying homes from ppl down there cause the place is still a wreck....you say no one would want to live there? We live in the US huge areas of building space are getting harder and harder to come by....that area will all be high priced housing soon enough....shit 20 or 30 years ago you couldnt pay most ppl to live in manhattan and most other areas of NY were seriously ghetto and cheap as fuck...now you pay out the ass for a one room apt....same deal with cali, everywhere warm prices are getting jacked up and based on recent trends Americans are progressively moving south and west

[cdlong]

do you mind citing that source?

[Moncef]

That ninja is just throwing out the biggest number he knows.

Hell, they weren't making but $3hr before katrina now each of them want 300k.

Ain't that some shit.

Haha, I watch The Boondocks too :wavey:

[azndoc]

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/02/hurricane_relief/

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2005/09/katrina_may_cost_us_as_much_as_two_wars_-_yahoo_news/

[SochBAT]

If you had warning there was something big coming your way that was going to fuck everything up, would you stay?

FUCK no.

My mom lives in Buras, LA. place looks like shit. I went to NO. Place looks like shit. The entire time i was in the area, i noticed 1 house on every city block was rebuilt. Everything else was shit. Most depressing this i've ever seen. But what were the people doing? They all man'd the fuck up, and dealt with it the best they could. Working hard, doing what they can to help each other out, and helping to rebuild the fucking community. Yea, federal help would be nice, but if you were stupid enough to stay when you were told "hey, you should leave or you're gonna die" then thats natural selection at its best.

[murda-c]

the govt should only give them back what they paid in taxes since then.

[codyace]

yes, it is expensive, but finding contractors willing and able to take on something like this is harder than you think. the other option is to use military personnel to complete these tasks, and that's become impossible with drastic cuts in military personnel and spending.


I'm calling total BS on that.

There are PLENTY of capable servicmemembers overseas that aren't doing their jobs, simply because of private contracters doing the work instead. Plenty of 88m's and the sort ended being guards/post security/etc instead of driving the trucks they brought with them....all because P/C's drove trucks isntead.

Or our unit for example (engineers)....there were plenty of times where P/C's got to complete work that we were MOS q'd to do, and more than capable of doing....so instead we became convoy security or the sort.


It's not an issue of cuts, it's an issue of offering to many contracts and mis appropriating the forces and strength they already have. I had nearly 5000 convoy miles overseas....and I was a mechanic in an engineer unit....if our shit wasn't being used, it wasn' down, and there were always convoys from Kirkuk to Balad/Mosul/Taji, so instead of using P/C drivers do to that job, and let the KBR fix the engineer problems, and sent the engineers packing doing someone elses job....

[cdlong]

i'll take your word for it, you've got more direct experience than me. i was thinking along the lines TCNs running chow halls and whatnot.