S-Chassis as future collector cars.

[Yuri]

Anyone else think that someday S-chassis will start rolling across the auction block at Barret-Jackson?
The reason I ask, is a long time ago, musclecars were in the exact same position that 240's are in today, being bought, driven, and modified by young guys for cheap. 240's are the #1 most modified car in the US.
So, down the road, do you think our generation will grow nostalgic for our old S13's and 14's, and start buying them up as garage queens?
Will they still be modified, or will previously modified cars be put on the rotisseire for a number's matching restoration?

Which s-chassis do you think will be the most sought out by collectors?
Kouki S14 SE 5-speeds?
Zenki S13 two-tones?
Verts?

It's fun to speculate, and honestly this won't affect me at all, I just plan to hang on to the one I've got.

(and by the way, I loathe Barret-Jackson with a deep-seated seething hatred.)

[SimpleS14]

I can see imports being collector car's or someone restoring a 240SX (dunno why). In regards to your question, the verts...since they are rare period.


I know I'd buy a S15 down the road (if I could) and keep it as a garage queen.

[TiNMAN]

black s14a SE 5spd w/o sunroof!

[A Spec Products]

People need to stop crashing and ruining them.

Take care of your cars!

I'm generalizing but these days I mainly see beat up ones (at least in Socal)

Maybe you should start hoarding interior parts, cause when people "restore" these things, they gonna wonder why all of them are stripped (for no reason) lol

I think verts would be least popular (now and tomorrow)

Probably a clean S14 Kouki 5 Speed SE though, to answer your question

[azndoc]

I would like to think that $omewhere out there, there i$ $omeone who ha$ a minted 1989 240$x coupe or hatch that i$ $till wrapped in pla$tic and $mell$ like brand new car $mell.

But I highly doubt it.

[muddafakka]

I think the 89 hatch, S13 coupes and verts, and 98 S14s will be the most sought after.

Somebody already has collector plates on their vert so you never know...

I plan on looking into this later on via Hagerty Insurance.

[KA-T_240]

the rare ones are the stock ones :)

I know in Sioux Falls, SD there is a 89 coupe with under 20k on it. It is MINT!

[revat619]

kouki s14's will be. I say that without any bias what so ever. :p

[fliprayzin240sx]

Dont think itll happen, I say that because I dont see 240Z or 280Zs going down that road. Its almost as bad as saying EG6 Civics will become collector items too 50 yrs from now.

[brndck]

2tone coupes. with clean original paint. and working hud. they're hard to find already.

[spool_sample]

Considering the way the 240 community is, I see them going more towards vintage racing cars than collector's cars.

[kingkilburn]

I think people will be searching high and low for clean s13 two tones with no bodywork. Personally I would look for a clean ruby zenki with a sunroof.

[chibo]

Where does the "most modified car in the US" come from? I seriously doubt it.

[eastcoastS14]

^^ lol buy mine then....almost totally stock ruby zenki no sunroof 4lug and just turned 100k....maybe mine will be worth somethin in the future lol

edit: yeah chibo is right....I seriosly doubt 240s are the most modified cars in the US...maybe in cali but Im lucky if I spot one every few months as Im sure is true for the rest of the nation.....it has to be civics or integras or something

[Phlip]

Where does the "most modified car in the US" come from? I seriously doubt it.

+1, unless he means the number of people who are currently acquiring them with the intentions of modifying.
I think that they CAN be, given the number of people who buy them and modify (MOST of whom fuck them up and/or wreck them in the process)... At some point down the road, "unmolested examples" will be few and far between, greatly pushing out the retained value of those examples. Quality of modifications and all that shit will effect their fetch, of course.
It will be interesting to wait and see what happens.

[DOOK]

the more they wreck, the rarer they become, driving up prices now and forever.

[Matej]

Thinking about the future makes me sad.

[Kn1ves]

I find the whole...

60s Mustang available in Coupe, Fastback and Convertible
90s 240sx available in Coupe, Fastback and Convertible

comparison pretty funny.
But in a few years time, our cars will probably just be like the Old Z cars today.

[DOOK]

so when then does a 68 fastback shelby GT500 equivalent S chassis come out... cause sign this mother fucker up.

[agame001]

^^^^^ HAHAHAHA!!!! NICE!!!^^^^

there will be collectors, but let's be realistic about it. stock 240's (stock suspension & engine) aren't aggressive enough to sell for big money, no matter how far along in the future we are.

we love s chassis, but put yourself in the shoes of those HONDA hooligans...
do you really think that they would buy a bone stock 1991 crx for more than $20K in any point during their lives?
i don't..
IMHO...i think that the same would go for a bone stock 240sx

[swiftdrift]

240's are the #1 most modified car in the US.


How do you justify that?....

[Kn1ves]

so when then does a 68 fastback shelby GT500 equivalent S chassis come out... cause sign this mother fucker up.

El es one swapped? Perhaps.

^^^^^ HAHAHAHA!!!! NICE!!!^^^^

there will be collectors, but let's be realistic about it. stock 240's (stock suspension & engine) aren't aggressive enough to sell for big money, no matter how far along in the future we are.

we love s chassis, but put yourself in the shoes of those HONDA hooligans...
do you really think that they would buy a bone stock 1991 crx for more than $20K in any point during their lives?
i don't..
IMHO...i think that the same would go for a bone stock 240sx

I've seen low mileage mint ones go for $10k... and were only 17 years into it.

[flclsteve]

if they did become id image it would be an s15 or a late model s14

[Phlip]

How do you justify that?....

After I thought about it, I think about it more of a "per capita" thing, looking at the number of people who buy them to modify them opposed to those that buy them to leave them BONE stock.

[mkiv98]

no, that is more for cars like supra, skyline, NSX, rx-7, maybe 300zx. look at what people are paying for cars like 2000GT and the old school GT-R's from the 60s and 70s.

right now a 98 S14 5sp with low miles seems cool, but after 25 years we can start to import S15s.

[steve shadows]

how many 510's do you see at Barret-Jackson?

well there is your answer.

[Edgar]

i think they will all rust one day and just disappear

[Andrew Bohan]

240 the most modded car?

i'm willing to bet there are more modded civics than total number of 240's ever produced.

[slw240sx]

i think they will all rust one day and just disappear


+1, the ones here in ohio and the midwest will just turn to rust and go back into the ground as Iron supplement. I saw a Vert today with the most extensive rust i have ever seen, worse then a 80s toyota trucks, i honestly don't know how the seats and carpet were still in the car...

[HyperTek]

i had a 190e 16valve cosworth, pretty dam rare.. future classic
http://www.motivemag.com/Content/uploads/1/mb1901_center.jpg
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/culture/Motive_Retro_Review_-_Mercedes-Benz_190E_2_3-16.shtml

I traded my sr20 s13 for it =p.. my190e was a eurospec with the rated 185hp high comp motor.. Just grew tired of it becuase it was too precious, I felt bad whenever I would want to mod or change something.. Car was mad clean though, id like to say less then 500 probably still on the road in teh US..

Traded it for a FC.. tons of FCs, yet you dont always see them on occasion like you see S13 every day.. But RX7 is already in history books... I got a few classic car books (just got another hardback on christmas) and it had the rx7 in it, and even a little brief info on teh fc and fd, esp for Mazda being the main pusher of the rotary engine. I figure mine like this, its a hot rod.. japanese hot rod..

Whoever said 240z aint worth much, your wrong,.. prestine perfect condition 240z go for alot!!$$$$ but the lower the production number, the better. 260z and 280z aint worth as much.

Ive seen a mk2 supra on craigslist that was in prestine condition, and the guy was asking 15k for it! now for me its hard to believe that car would be worth it..
Tastefully modded cars might be worth something later down the road? I dont know, mods usually just reflect the trend of its era.
its gonna take like 30 -40 years til our cars are unique.. and by the way we drive them now, they will have like a million miles on em lol
Japanese cars are soo mass produced.. once you have a rare car , and go back to japanese cars, you kinda miss having something unique.

Yah ok i can see how maybe later down the road that 240sx, 300zx, 350z, ae86 and other cars might become interesting later, seeing how they became a cult classic esp right now.. it all depends on the times of our era. Example- Starion isnt that popular yet it is more rare, yet there was nothing that could have made it unpopular, its just no one really liked it as an old car.

[RedStage]

but after 25 years we can start to import S15s.

wonder how many will be left by then.....

[tougemiata]

whats everyone's problem with barret-jackson? I can understand people paying stupid amounts of money on stock cars just to have them sit there, but not every car sold there is just for looks and showing off the bank roll.

[KA-T_240]

One of the guys that live in my town buys a shit load of stuff on that show.

For example the 1971 Hemi Cuda Convertables. has 3/14. Paid over 1mil for the last one and then it went off to get re-restored or something like that. His garage has over $20million in cars in it.

[swiftdrift]

After I thought about it, I think about it more of a "per capita" thing, looking at the number of people who buy them to modify them opposed to those that buy them to leave them BONE stock.

Where do you get your "numbers" from? I live in so cali, where you probably see more 240's than in any other state in the country, and honestly I will see at least 10-15 bone stock 240's driving around before i see 1 actual modified one.

I was just speculating whether or not he had any factual evidence or statistics that 240's are in fact "the #1 most modified car in the US". I'd think it would be civics before 240's. I'll see 15 modded civics before i see one that's BONE stock.

[HyperTek]

i believe yuri's word, right now 240s are a pretty hot item in the media right now as far as the import scene go.. esp if you look at its world wide popularity, japan, Australia, etc.. where hondas seem to be mostly a US craze.

[swiftdrift]

i believe yuri's word, right now 240s are a pretty hot item in the media right now as far as the import scene go.. esp if you look at its world wide popularity, japan, Australia, etc.. where hondas seem to be mostly a US craze.

240's are the #1 most modified car in the US... #1 most modified car in the US.... in the US.

He said US, not worldwide.

[drift freaq]

Dont think itll happen, I say that because I dont see 240Z or 280Zs going down that road. Its almost as bad as saying EG6 Civics will become collector items too 50 yrs from now.

Actually Ray your wrong. 240Z's are already being considered as Classic and are well on the road to collectors. Even hough Toyota made the 2000GT and Nissan made the Datsun 310 and 311 roadsters, the cars that started this whole Japanese performance car/sports car thing in the United States officially numbers wise was the 240z. Followed closely by the 510 as the poor mans BMW 1600.
Though we owe it all mostly to the 240z. It layed the groundwork for Mazda to introduce the RX7 and Miata, Toyota to introduce the MR2 and Supra etc.....

180sx's in Japan though cheap are already falling into the legend status catagory as well due to the fact they were the most popular sports car ever sold in Japan.

Though I have a feeling 240sx's will be strictly a cult thing in the U.S. and not achieve the kind of collector status a 240Z will.

[Nachtmensch]

Actually Ray your wrong. 240Z's are already being considered as Classic and are well on the road to collectors. Even hough Toyota made the 2000GT and Nissan made the Datsun 310 and 311 roadsters, the cars that started this whole Japanese performance car/sports car thing in the United States officially numbers wise was the 240z. Followed closely by the 510 as the poor mans BMW 1600.
Though we owe it all mostly to the 240z. It layed the groundwork for Mazda to introduce the RX7 and Miata, Toyota to introduce the MR2 and Supra etc.....

180sx's in Japan though cheap are already falling into the legend status catagory as well due to the fact they were the most popular sports car ever sold in Japan.

Though I have a feeling 240sx's will be strictly a cult thing in the U.S. and not achieve the kind of collector status a 240Z will.

i would argue the 240z being the one who "layed the groundwork."

i feel that the toyota 2000gt did much of the work. the 2000gt really turned heads and made people realize that the japanese are very capable of creating a sports car that rivals that of the american ones.

yes, the 240z seemed to sell much better, but it wouldnt be where it was without toyota's 2000gt coming first.

with that said, i dont think there will be a high demand for the 240sx. the 240sx is in that awkward pubecent phase of automotive history. just past carbs, but before technology really settled in. if someone wanted a "vintage" japanese car, why would they settle on a 240sx? the R32's, R33's, and R34's would be much more desirable, like they are today. the 240sx is just your common RWD sports coupe.

do you see people collecting foxboy mustangs too? :loco:

[HyperTek]

2000gt never made it to teh US though.. and wasnt a mainstream production car, it was more of a homeland special . datsun made the z to attack the US, but they never sent godzilla gtr lol

i agree with driftfreaq 100% good points

[HyperTek]

then again,.. the 240sx's popularity didnt grow til after its production run, so its kinda too late for it to get a spot in history books

[Yuri]

Where does the "most modified car in the US" come from? I seriously doubt it.

"most Modified car" comes from SEMA's official market information.
Aftermarket companies that are sema members get update every so often on which markets are the hottest.

There are more people modifying 240's now than any other model of car.
There may be a higher total number of civics that have been modified, but people are no longer sinking as much money into them.

Plus 240 owners are more likely to buy big-ticket items like wheels and suspension. Most of the stuff being bought for civics were trinkets.

As for classic Japanese cars increasing in value, there was a big uproar over Barret Jackson allowing a Toyopet Crown in the last auction.
Japanese cars have started to cross the block.

It takes time for cars to build value in most cases.
A lot of people never thought 71-74 Chargers would appreciate, but now their values are snowballing. The same with Dusters and Darts, musclecars that people never thought would rise in value.

As the higher end cars continue to go up, the next rung on the ladder is pulled up with it, as people who can't afford the top dollar cars buy the next best thing.

Toyota 2000GT's already sell for insane amounts of money when they are put up for sale (which isn't often.)
First gen toyota Celicas are already appreciating.
The Nissan 240sx has a huge cult following, and as a result, the prices have already stabilized, at around the same age as popular musclecars did due to demand.

You have to realize, the musclecar market is driven by nostalgia.
Most musclecars weren't impressive in terms of performance.
They may have seemed like they had tons of power, but most of the time it was rated in gross horsepower, not net or SAE.
Most family cars today have better acceleration. 0-60 in under 7 seconds was considered really fast back then.
I realize that there were several musclecars that could do the 1/4 in the 13's, but many couldn't.

What I'm saying is that most of the people who are buying musclecars are doing it because they remember them being awesome and desireable when they were young.
Just like most of us are doing right now by being on this forum.
In related news, I don't doubt that 30 years from now, mint original Evo's and STi's will be fetching high prices.

[Vision Garage]

Cant wait to sell my 240 25 years from now for 10k. only one i see that would be worth money would be the kouki for the scarcity of numbers produced.

[kingkilburn]

The price of a 240sx is already going up. Look at the Kelly blue book value for an s13(I think it something like 800) Then check out auto trader or eBay. People are getting 4-5 thousand for an average quality car. When I got my s13 5000 would have gotten me a decent kouki s14. I know a lot of this is due to drifting(and modern lowriders) but that is the same as drag racing for muscle cars.

[Rob's S14]

Right now, there's a couple low mileage s14's going for more than 15k here. I bout mine for 8 almost 5 years ago, and mine was bone stock and real clean. I realized that this pricing is kinda high, but still that's almost double from just a few years ago.

[shmiddy]

me and my buddies were just talking about that. we said that the civic hatch's and the 240's are gonna be colectors. cuz when we get old and wrinkley thats the cars were gonna want back

[exitspeed]

Hmmm, seems like just yesterday Yuri and I were discussing this over a couple Potbelly's sandwiches.

But yes, I think they are going to be future collector cars. I have a friend (snatch13) on here who happens to own a 240 that will probably end up on Barret Jackson 30 years from now if he keeps it.

It's a bone stock White 95 SE with...29k! He never drives it either. On purpose. He pretty much just bought it to not drive it and hang on to it.

But the kouki's will bring in the most. The probably original stock two tones.

[VROOOM]

nissan restored some 240z's a few years ago and sold them for around 30k
http://www.geocities.com/~z-car/rebuild.html

[Yuri]

nissan restored some 240z's a few years ago and sold them for around 30k
http://www.geocities.com/~z-car/rebuild.html

I think they did that at the wrong time.
I would buy a completly factory refurbished S30 for $24k today if they were to do it again.

[axiomatik]

2tone coupes. with clean original paint. and working hud. they're hard to find already.

I've got mine :D


Yes, 240's will be collector's cars in the future. 6-7 years ago I would have said no, because no one was into them. but now their popularity is sky high. remember, the popularity of muscle cars now is based on nostalgia. the people who are plunking down huge amounts of money for them now either drove them when they were our age or always wanted one and never could get one. you can't predict the 240's future collectibility based on the current collectibility of 240z's. the old z's were very much a niche vehicle. not many people ever owned one back in the day, and so not as many people are seeking them out today. but 30 years from now, many of you will reminisce about that 240 you owned when you were young, and want to go out and restore one, and prices will rise, especially for rare models, 2-tone coupes, verts, s14 koukis (especially '98s), etc. I don't know how important numbers-matching engines will be, (because who wants a stock sohc?), but look at how rare that is already.

[SimpleS14]

I wonder if I can import a S15 now and just hold onto it.....

[Yuri]

This just in, headline from the future:

"'89 Nissan 240SX coupe crosses the block at Barret-Jackson-Shin-Rodriguez for a record 5 million Euros!

At the Barret-Jackson-Shin-Rodriguez automotive/ekranoplan auctions this weekend in Denver, a new record was set when a Nissan 240SX sold for 5 million Euros. The car was a numbers matching 1989 coupe style body painted a very rare Lavender frost metallic.

This continues the trend of skyrocketing prices of what have been labled "athletic recipro-cars."
Other cars that have been fetching high prices are AE86's, Hyundai Genesis coupes, Nissan 350Z,370Z, and 400Z, Chevrolet Cavalier Z24's and although they are not technically recipro's Mazda RX7s. Many think the demand for these cars started growing due to the unattainability of the so-called "Godzillas," cars such as the Toyota Supra, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo and Eclipse Evo, first-gen Subaru STi, and the short lived Nissan and Infiniti GTRs.

A large collector base exists for these cars, even though they can no longer be used for their intended purpose. Gasoline powered reciprocating internal combustion engines haven't been legal for street use for the last decade. Even if their owners convert them to a modern clean drivetrain, it would be near impossible to fit them with the automatic guidance system that's required for all federal highways and the entire state of Mexico (formerly known as the state of California and the country of Mexico until last year).

There is still a soft spot however, for the men, women, and nongenders that buy these collectable yet hopelessy outdated former modes of transportation.
It can be best summed up by a qoute from the aging gentlemen who bought the Lavender 240SX: "If I can wake up every morning, and gaze at it shining under the lights in my garage, I can handle being shuttled to work in my Kia-Chery Charger Daytona. The Kia-Chery may be a top of the line luxury vehicle, but I'll look at my S13, and remember when I was young, and part of the car itself, not just payload."

[sxe]

back to the original question. does anyone think a s14 zenki would be more of a rare collector than kouki? being that alot of s14 owners are buying kouki front ends?

[Yuri]

back to the original question. does anyone think a s14 zenki would be more of a rare collector than kouki? being that alot of s14 owners are buying kouki front ends?

I doubt it, since so many more zenkis were built.
Zenkis converted to koukis will be categorized as "clones."

That's like saying 318 powered Cudas will be more of a collector car than a Hemi 'Cuda, since most 318 cars are turned into Hemi clone cars.

[VROOOM]

according to Wikipedia there were 32,448 zenki's built and 5,833 kouki's built. 8320 convertibles made

98 silver moss kouki with 85k miles here

[Rob's S14]

damn, to have one in under 6k wordwide. I feel so special.

[EDacIouSX]

If integra's and civics make it to the collectors status, so will 240sx... why? Cause who the heck didnt want to mod a civic si back in the 90s except me? look at those mitsubishi cars too like the eclipse. I don't know, just a basis for comparison... I guess what I am trying to say is, are 240s a fad like the civic, integra, preludes, and etc were or are they here to stay???

if they are here to stay, then I am betting they will get some kind of recognition in the future.

[The Chad]

I saw a Prince Motor Co. race car, (Grandfather to all that is Datsun/Nissan) go for a pretty penny via an auction my friend send me a link of a while back. I figure if teh Datsun world of 510's and My Fair lady's are increasing in value as they age i don't see why some of the more rare models of S chassis would not follow suite??
---But who knows...unless...ah yes if one of us had only put a flux capacitor in their hatch and a gullwing door conversion so we could travel into the future and find out :) haha.

[s13Dr1ft]

Lol...1989 Nissan 240sx. 245,xxx miles on a rebuilt KADE swap.
wonder what that would pull at Barret Jackson.

Honestly, I dont ever want to sell my S13. I dont want my kids to have it either.

[SimpleS14]

according to Wikipedia there were 32,448 zenki's built and 5,833 kouki's built. 8320 convertibles made

98 silver moss kouki with 85k miles here

This is strictly U.S....correct?


I can see the Zenki being a collector item in Europe since its rare than the Kouki....well atleast in U.K.

[usdm180sx]

My guess is for verts, 5 speed chukis and 5 speed koukis

[svensko]

Another thing to remember is the complexity of the electronics in our cars. With a muscle car, you can drop a crate engine, tweak the carb, and have a sick set up. I'll be surprised if you can even find a stock ECU for our car in 20 years.

Muscle cars also came from the factory with HUGE displacement engines. Not a 2.4 litre truck engine. Muscle cars were sold to the most grizzly rednecks you can imagine. The 240SX was sold to moms going through a mid-life crisis that needed a cute coupe.

I never plan on selling mine but if I did I wouldn't be expecting more than $5K for it, even modified.

[VROOOM]

This is strictly U.S....correct?


I can see the Zenki being a collector item in Europe since its rare than the Kouki....well atleast in U.K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/240SX
#4

yes just 240sx's

[max2damax]

I never plan on selling mine but if I did I wouldn't be expecting more than $5K for it, even modified.
I'LL TAKE IT!,

back on topic Im hoping they do,
here is a pic you wont see often 2 silver moss koukis next to each other.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m32/vipergts109/downsize1.jpg

here are my two future classics, my 98 smoss and 83 280zx turbo 5sp fully loaded,(not many of the around either.)
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m32/vipergts109/DSC02600.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m32/vipergts109/DSC02602.jpg

[The Chad]

^^^ that reminds me of my 1st car, 1979 280ZX. That was the 1st year of the zX, X meaning fuel injected. The 79' got all sorta options: Cruise control, A/C, auto up/down power windows, lumbar support, and of course a massive 21 gal fuel tank appealing to the touring crowd. I owned a 2+2 model** The 79 was also one of the slowest models as they tuned it quite a bit better in the earlier models that were running dual carbs. Good times :) Def a collector car.

[Rob's S14]

damn a 21 gal fuel tank..both look pretty sweet.

I'm definitely holding on to my car. That's why I want to get a dd hybrid.

[drift freaq]

i would argue the 240z being the one who "layed the groundwork."

i feel that the toyota 2000gt did much of the work. the 2000gt really turned heads and made people realize that the japanese are very capable of creating a sports car that rivals that of the american ones.

yes, the 240z seemed to sell much better, but it wouldnt be where it was without toyota's 2000gt coming first.

with that said, i dont think there will be a high demand for the 240sx. the 240sx is in that awkward pubecent phase of automotive history. just past carbs, but before technology really settled in. if someone wanted a "vintage" japanese car, why would they settle on a 240sx? the R32's, R33's, and R34's would be much more desirable, like they are today. the 240sx is just your common RWD sports coupe.

do you see people collecting foxboy mustangs too? :loco:

Ah go back and do your Homework a total of maybe 10 2000GT's made it to the United States. Do you know your history behind them as well?

Nissan and Yamaha were working on the Father or mother of the 240z and came to heads on the design. Project was dropped over a disagreement. Yamaha took its engine design and body ideas coming off the Nissan project to Toyota and you got the 2000GT.

Meanwhile Nissan decided to restart the Fairlady Z project and brought Mr Katayama into the picture the 240z was born.

It sold in record amounts in the United States for a Foreign built sports car, costing only 4k for a 2350lb, IRS, rack and pinion steering, 150hp sports car. (original weight pre crash safety standards 70- early 72) Clearing over 170k units sold by 1973.

Though that may seem like not that much by todays sales standards back in the 70's for a sports car those numbers were phenomenal.

Its a classic in every sense. Its funny Yuri still keeps avoiding mentioning it (the 240Z)even though he mentions the 350z lol. :D OH OH wait he did say he would buy a refurbed one if they did that. Hmmmm hehehhehehhehe

Oh ya and first two years of 240sx sales in the U.S. were actually decent for a entry level sports car as well selling 60k units per year. No Honda civic numbers or 10 years and running Mazda Miata numbers but very respectable especially when compared to previous S12 sales numbers.

One more note the current Fairlady aka 350z is already being considered a classic in Japan its huge in sales and has dwarfed the G35.

[exitspeed]

Another thing to remember is the complexity of the electronics in our cars. With a muscle car, you can drop a crate engine, tweak the carb, and have a sick set up. I'll be surprised if you can even find a stock ECU for our car in 20 years.

Muscle cars also came from the factory with HUGE displacement engines. Not a 2.4 litre truck engine. Muscle cars were sold to the most grizzly rednecks you can imagine. The 240SX was sold to moms going through a mid-life crisis that needed a cute coupe.

I never plan on selling mine but if I did I wouldn't be expecting more than $5K for it, even modified.

No one is comparing a stock 240 to a muscle car performance wise. :ugh: We're talking about the fact that there are rare models out there and some of us will be willing to pony up some big cash for'em when we're 50. I for one would be willing to pay a hefty amount for a bone stock minty Lavender Frost Metallic 240 in a heart beat.

[racepar1]

Definitely vert's. They're rare as fuck now, imagine in 40 years. But really their all gunna be pretty rare cars because so many of them are getting used up and wrecked up in either drifting, touge racing, or autocross/track events.

[hustlervibes]

I see where people are saying verts, but I still think kouki's because it's technically the rarest and probably wrecked more than verts. I always see old mom's driving around in verts rather than kouki's. And verts are older as of now add those years onto the kouki and you'll probably get the same if not more rarity due to less production numbers in the US.

And I have a 98 with what used to be all matching numbers until I took off the hood...

[MeLon]

most desirable: s14 koukis

rarity of 'all' kouki production: base model, black, left-hand drive

[SimpleS14]

most desirable: s14 koukis

rarity of 'all' kouki production: base model, black, left-hand drive

in the U.S. right?

cause worldwide I think the rarest kouki is a silver S14 Silvia

[brewster240]

240s are great and all, but i have a 2 owner, clean titled red 99 civic si bundled away in storage.

by the time im 50 and ready to retire, there will be no si's left, just clones and stolen parts :)


but i feel that 2 tone coupes will draw a bit of money, and not verts. verts are pretty damn plentiful. i see a ton of them all the time, even up here in the cold north east, and rarely see 2 tones. i can count on 1 hand actually.

[kdashy]

most desirable: s14 koukis

rarity of 'all' kouki production: base model, black, left-hand drive

in the U.S. right?

cause worldwide I think the rarest kouki is a silver S14 Silvia

I was thinking that too. Either that or Silver Moss.

A Black base model doesn't seem that rare.

[illvialuver]

only if i see an old 71 or 72 datsun Z on the auction first than i think it could happen, and i know i wont have to worry about it, because I am never gogin to be without an s chasis car.

[max2damax]

I was thinking that too. Either that or Silver Moss.

A Black base model doesn't seem that rare.


estimates place the production numbers for silver moss koukis at around 300 out of the total production number of ~2100 for the 1998 year model, dont quote me on that though.

[drift freaq]

Ok the vert people have a point for a very important reason. Americans love verts. All old verts no matter what make go for bank these days. It's easy to to see 240sx verts being worth a lot strictly based on the vert factor. Now two tone coupes have some possibilities but the most likely 240sx to become a collectors car in the U.S. will most likely be the verts because they are verts. This is using logic based on whats happened with other cars sold as verts.

[RiversideS13]

i think after 20 years S14 kouki will be collector's item because they are rare.

[drift freaq]

i think after 20 years S14 kouki will be collector's item because they are rare.

Rare does not always make a collectors item. Collectors items have to have certain factors to warrant them collectors items. Now see if the body styling of the S14 kouki stood out as major differently than maybe. While nice its not something thats a knock me out wow factor. Same goes for S13 fastbacks and coupes. Now compare that to a FD RX7 which has classic sports car styling written all over it. Or 240Z which will be considering slightly normal by some critics in its day was actually again stand out classic sports car styling. Especially coming out of Japan at that time. As well the Toyota 2000GT another car unique in its styling. Another factor that makes a classic or collectors is its impact on the marketplace. Now Miata's will be classic's due to their shear marketing number impact for a entry level roadster. Again this is another qualification the 240Z pulls off. 2nd MR2's stand a chance at becoming classics and collectors as well. Why you ask? They were one of the few mid engined sports cars of the 90's offered turbocharged.
I could list a half dozen sports cars from the 60's and 70's that while sports that were liked by enthusiasts and had followings did not become real collectors items or heralded classics. Remember the 240sx was not that much of a hit in the U.S. due to the way Nissan NA marketed it. It could be forgotten in my opinion though I could be wrong. Sure its the most modified car according to SEMA but it takes a lot more than that to make a classic or a collectors item.

Shuts devils advocate mode off, steps out to get a Pizza. :D

[BustedS13]

the 240 is going to be the Maverick of tomorrow.

[ranger240]

the 240 is going to be the Maverick of tomorrow.

what parallels do the two cars have to conclude this?

[Koopa Troopa]

Eh, clean S13 Silvias are starting to become a rarity/ collectors item here... You don't see them too often anymore... The ones you usually do see are beat down Q's though....

[BustedS13]

what parallels do the two cars have to conclude this?

mustang: the classic pony car. power and stunning looks.
maverick: the cheap, shitty alternative to the classic. less power, less good looks.

mustang is to maverick as 300z is to 240sx.

[bik]

so when then does a 68 fastback shelby GT500 equivalent S chassis come out... cause sign this mother fucker up.

if shelby take cars and modify them... then a care made by top secret or something may be very expensive in the future, is kinda the same

[brewster240]

mustang: the classic pony car. power and stunning looks.
maverick: the cheap, shitty alternative to the classic. less power, less good looks.

mustang is to maverick as 300z is to 240sx.


i dont agree with that at all.

i prefer 240 over fat heavy hard to work on 300zx's, and i think 240's look a lot better too.

[Antihero983]

i dont agree with that at all.

i prefer 240 over fat heavy hard to work on 300zx's, and i think 240's look a lot better too.

^^ i agree. except on the looks part. i hate working on 300zx's......

and as far as the rare=collector's item deal, well remember sterling? acura and rover made a car for the states. good like finding one. but guess what, they're freaking worthless.

so yeah rare hardly means its a collectible.

[svensko]

I can promise you guys that the 240sx will not be remembered in the mainstream in 20 years. It'll go the way of the Izusu Impulse. :coolugh:

[brewster240]

I can promise you guys that the 240sx will not be remembered in the mainstream in 20 years. It'll go the way of the Izusu Impulse. :coolugh:


you're dumb.

[Koopa Troopa]

I can promise you guys that the 240sx will not be remembered in the mainstream in 20 years. It'll go the way of the Izusu Impulse. :coolugh:

Agree'd.

It'll have a small, die hard fan base like the Starion/ Conquest.

[kdashy]

and as far as the rare=collector's item deal, well remember sterling? acura and rover made a car for the states. good like finding one. but guess what, they're freaking worthless.

Haha I had a matchbox car model of a Sterling when I was a kid, I never knew wtf it was, always thought it was a Legend.


I had crappy toys as a kid.

[svensko]

Sooner or later, 240 owners will move up to the 350z, and the cycle will continue. If we woke up tomorrow and every car manufacturer stopped making RWD cars THEN I would say a 240 may increase in value a grand or two if it was stock and clean.

Think about it this way: You've just got a decent paying job, and you're looking to buy a car. You remember your mad tyte drifta days and consider looking at old 240SXs. You find a few, all with dented body panels, and all with hack job swaps. For the same price you find a RWD coupe that is brand new, comes with more power, and would be more reliable. Which would you go with? :goyou:

[VROOOM]

Sooner or later, 240 owners will move up to the 350z, and the cycle will continue. If we woke up tomorrow and every car manufacturer stopped making RWD cars THEN I would say a 240 may increase in value a grand or two if it was stock and clean.

Think about it this way: You've just got a decent paying job, and you're looking to buy a car. You remember your mad tyte drifta days and consider looking at old 240SXs. You find a few, all with dented body panels, and all with hack job swaps. For the same price you find a RWD coupe that is brand new, comes with more power, and would be more reliable. Which would you go with? :goyou:

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

[svensko]

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

Look at what GM has been pumping out for the past 15 years. The only way to own a domestic is to make sure it's pre 70s.

If the 350z had a 1 litre 3 cylinder and an interior by Mattell then I could see the 240 being worth while.

Also, I doubt most cudas had hack job swaps, PHAT RIMZZZZZZ, JDM paint, etc etc etc.

:mepoke:

[VROOOM]

never seen redneck ingenuity i guess

[ThatGuy]

Svensko, you really need to stop posting. All you are doing is spouting off crap. Make sure your brain is in "Drive" before you type in the future.

Stop grouping every 240 into your "half-assed" fantasy world. You are only making generalizations. The general public didn't create the Hemi 'Cudas or other Muscle Cars that are fetching Millions at Barret-Jackson. Enthusiasts who knew what they were doing and took the time to do it right, are.

[svensko]

never seen redneck ingenuity i guess

You DO realize that the Hemi Cudas being sold for a million bucks are number matching, no accidents (no, not even drifting accidents), original paint, CLEAN original interior with low miles. It was also originally SOLD as a muscle car, NOT as a 'cute coupe'.

:tweak:

[svensko]

Svensko, you really need to stop posting. All you are doing is spouting off crap. Make sure your brain is in "Drive" before you type in the future.

Stop grouping every 240 into your "half-assed" fantasy world. You are only making generalizations. The general public didn't create the Hemi 'Cudas or other Muscle Cars that are fetching Millions at Barret-Jackson. Enthusiasts who knew what they were doing and took the time to do it right, are.

How am I spouting off crap? He brought up the muscle car agrument. Even Koopa agrees with me that it will die off. Yes, the 240SX is a nice car. However, it's not the only RWD coupe on the market. There's nothing 'special' about it that really stands out.

Nope, no half assing here:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172360
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172402
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172306

This thread reminds me of a thread that was on another (general) car forum about which cars of today will reach collector status. It got to the point where people started naming off mid-90s Pontiacs since they were "rare colors".

[drift freaq]

15 years ago no one would have thought that hemi cuda's would fetch a million dollars

Fail comparision. Hemi Cuda's were destined for collectability and Classic status because of the Hemi Engine(something a 240sx will never be known for in the states. Aka outragous engine lol). Shit that shit was legendary when I was in high and that was over 20 years ago. The only thing people did not realize 15 years ago was lesser American V8's from the 60's would become big because the absolute classics went stratospheric on value. Ya no one saw a million dollar value but they knew it was going to be worth bucks. As are 440 Darts!

Though ya, this discussion is really not about the value of Muscle cars. Its about the 240sx and if any of you bother to read my discourses above, you would learn what it takes to make a classic collectable.

[brewster240]

Sooner or later, 240 owners will move up to the 350z, and the cycle will continue. If we woke up tomorrow and every car manufacturer stopped making RWD cars THEN I would say a 240 may increase in value a grand or two if it was stock and clean.

Think about it this way: You've just got a decent paying job, and you're looking to buy a car. You remember your mad tyte drifta days and consider looking at old 240SXs. You find a few, all with dented body panels, and all with hack job swaps. For the same price you find a RWD coupe that is brand new, comes with more power, and would be more reliable. Which would you go with? :goyou:


everything you type is dumb.

i can afford a 350z now and im just as happy to have a 240.

when i comes down to the point of being collectable, reliability will not be a concern. its a hobby.

but im sure that why the hemi cudas and whatever else you bring up, fetch millions, cause they are so reliable.

and as far as redneck comments, you should do some research about nyc/nj back in the day, along with detroit and cali.

[Phlip]

How am I spouting off crap? He brought up the muscle car agrument. Even Koopa agrees with me that it will die off. Yes, the 240SX is a nice car. However, it's not the only RWD coupe on the market. There's nothing 'special' about it that really stands out.

Nope, no half assing here:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172360
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172402
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=172306

This thread reminds me of a thread that was on another (general) car forum about which cars of today will reach collector status. It got to the point where people started naming off mid-90s Pontiacs since they were "rare colors".

See, Sven... You're problem is that you have an opinion here, and that opinion would be more valid if you just said it, then shut the fuck up... You're lack of anything that would make anyone with even an average level of intellect continue to read or even TRY to approach you in a positive manner is why so many people seem to be picking on you... See, I can agree with you on the IDEA that the 240SX will not be a collector's car, but you're REASONING is where it all gets fucked up. What is sad is that it is not ALL of your reasoning that turns it sour. I mean, to take the lowest denominator of a group of cars and use them as support for your idea is a failure, as they represent but a microcosm of the whole of the community that will exist when this discussion comes to fruition to be proved/disproved. Shit, that small fraction doesn't even apply to everyone with them now.
You're generalizing, not all 240SX owners half-ass their cars, some of us modify SUPER slowly so as to get it right the first time. On the other side of that, not all owners of the cars that are CURRENTLY collectors did their cars right, thusly upping what makes them collectors and enhancing the value of the ones that are not done right.
What we're seeing now is magazines, movies and other media outlets influencing children, who will go out and thin the numbers of available cars/parts that will be available in 5/10/20 years. Does this sound familiar? Why is my neighbor having such a shitty time finding parts for his all-original 68 Z28? Because he REFUSES to bastardize the integrity/value of the car, even though he will never sell it. Yes, I can draw a parallel to that car and my coupe sitting out in front of my house, but for a car being sustained on modifiability, such a comparison is silly to make.
Please stop and think before you post, you JUST might see the number of red squares below your name go down a little.

[svensko]

Stuff
Good points but I'll stick to my opinion. I honestly couldn't care less about red squares under my name. :hs:




but im sure that why the hemi cudas and whatever else you bring up, fetch millions, cause they are so reliable.

You honestly think that car will ever see a public road? :tweak:

[brewster240]

your a dope.

you said a 240 wont be worth anything cause it wont be reliable, and you will be able to buy something new, for the same price.


so my point was, if thats the case, why do people buy super expensive muscle cars, when they could buy something nice, new and reliable.

you're so dumb you are confusing yourself.

[Phlip]

Good points but I'll stick to my opinion. I honestly couldn't care less about red squares under my name. :hs:


Good luck finding the forest in all those damned trees.
There was a lot more to that post than just red squares, the fact of the matter is that your presence does very little for us if you're completely unwilling to be a decent human being, why do you even bother?

[JRas]

I think it's possible

240z is what you should get

[ranger240]

for every surviving 240sx twenty years from now (its only 6-7 years until 240sx's start getting classic plates :aw: ) there are going to be tons of former owners who generally all had a positive experience and like the car, and lots will miss um (like many former s-chassis owners do) nostalgia will definitely kick in for some of them enough to want another.

as to the argument trying to paralleling top end muscle cars to s chassis, in the u.s. theres a chance that imported silvias and 180sx could be worth big(ger) bucks due to the scarcity and reputation / almost legend of those cars).

motorex imported r32s and r34s are definately going to be worth quite a bit, call those the shelby cobras/shelby mustangs of the nissan future classic car family.. while we're at it silvias/180sx's can be boss429's and mach1's...

i dont agree with that muscle car argument but there is some validity to it


we're all speculators of the future classic car market right now, lets not get too opinionated and start bashing the hell outta each other, no opinion can be proven right for a few more years, so chill fighting soo much about it

[atom]

240's have never been known in the US as great performance cars stock the same way other cars have been. FD's and JZ80's are the only imports from the 90's that have a chance IMO to get to that level. Possibly Z32. But definitely not a S-Chassis car.

The bottom line is anything is collectible given enough time. But I think if/when it ever becomes real collectible, the 240 is gonna be more like the AMC Gremlin than a '64 mustang.

[Yuri]

The bottom line is anything is collectible given enough time. But I think if/when it ever becomes real collectible, the 240 is gonna be more like the AMC Gremlin than a '64 mustang.

I can see the 240 ending up a lot like the '64 mustang.
Considered a classic, but there are still plenty out there, being driven around as dailys, and except for rare models, really not worth that much.

[axiomatik]

for those knocking on the 240's stock performance, the '64 mustang wasn't exactly a performance icon either.

bottom line, what determines whether or not something becomes a collectable is the willingness of people to plop down good sums of money to buy them. and that urge is generally driven by nostalgia. 30 years from now, you'll be think back to when you had a fun, light weight fast rwd car that was easy to work on and want to enjoy that experience again. Sure the FD's and supras will be at the top of the pile price-wise, but there are so few of those that people will snap up 240's when they can't afford the FD they always wanted.

[Yuri]

In the future, when a lightweight sport coupe weighs 6200lbs....

[exitspeed]

^
Yea, a lot of old "muscle cars" ran 15's and still do.

A cars value is based on what people are willing to pay for it. There are other factors in the equation, but that is the main factor.

Like I said before, I'd be willing to pay a hefty price for a bone stock Lavender Frost Coupe 20 years down the road.

[Koopa Troopa]

for those knocking on the 240's stock performance, the '64 mustang wasn't exactly a performance icon either.


Yeah, I watched the History Channel segment on the Mustang and the dude who designed the 64.5 Mustang said the car was built for housewives who wanted a sporty yet economic car. He said he was really surprised that the car became a hit with dudes.

[Phlip]

Yeah, I watched the History Channel segment on the Mustang and the dude who designed the 64.5 Mustang said the car was built for housewives who wanted a sporty yet economic car. He said he was really surprised that the car became a hit with dudes.

Funny and EXTREMELY ironic things hide under the message of this post.

**coughsecretarycarscoughcough**

[Koopa Troopa]

Yeah, S chasis was also targeted towards women..

[atom]

I can see the 240 ending up a lot like the '64 mustang.
Considered a classic, but there are still plenty out there, being driven around as dailys, and except for rare models, really not worth that much.

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

[exitspeed]

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

So the 240 hasn't had an impact on the industry?

Maybe not when it first came out, but it certainly has made an impact in the last 5 years. It can partially be credited for every manufacturer scrambling to come out with a new RWD car right now.

[atom]

So the 240 hasn't had an impact on the industry?

Maybe not when it first came out, but it certainly has made an impact in the last 5 years. It can partially be credited for every manufacturer scrambling to come out with a new RWD car right now.

You can thank the Z33 for that, not the 240. If anything the 240 played a very minor role.

[Yuri]

You can thank the Z33 for that, not the 240. If anything the 240 played a very minor role.

I'll have to disagree.
Most of the companies coming out with affordable FRs are responding to the cult like status the 240 has gotten recently.
There is an army of potential buyers already in place, and they currently own S-chassis, not Z33's.
When speaking with designers and engineers from various automotive companies, the 350Z was mentioned only in passing, because for most buyers, it wasn't in their price range.
I've been on top of this market for years.
My first semester senior thesis at CCS was researching this market and creating a car for Toyota to enter this niche with.
I've done 4 months of focused research on this market.
What have you done?

[atom]

With the S-Chassis getting trendy, companies can infer the viability of cheap RWD sports/sporty cars. The Z33 and S2000 PROVED to Jap. companies with hard numbers there was a RWD sports/sporty car market to begin with.

If the S2000 and Z33 bombed, how much sway does the 240's popularity have then?

[usdm180sx]

But do you really ever think a 240 will ever be called a classic?

IMO part of being a "classic" car is the impact it had on automotive history. I mean the S13 sold decently well but that was about it. The 240 is sort of an oddity in that they didn't become hot cars here until way after it was discontinued and that was because of drifting.

Well, that's unique right there. All the automotive magazines raved on how balanced the chassis was but complained about the ka and yearned for the sr. The only other balanced car that was on the level or exceeded it was the porsche 944.

What do you have against the 240sx anyway?

[atom]

??? If I had anything against the 240 I wouldn't own one. I'd have a Supra or a Z33 or whatever. I like my S14 better than all those cars. But my personal preference has nothing to do with how I think other people perceive the car.

[usdm180sx]

Oh okay. It just seems like you're downplaying the car.

Kinda sucks that it was glorified by drifting but it is the only car that was recognized after it was produced because of a motorsport. Well, the ae86 corolla too.

In that sense it already is a collector's car don't you think?

[whereda40at]

I would like to think that out there, there i$ who ha$ a minted 1989 240 coupe or hatch that i$ wrapped in pla and $ like brand new car .

But I highly doubt it.
there might be. there was a guy selling a 93 mr2 turbo with 2500 miles on it for 45g's. im pretty sure there is some asshole who never drove there 240.

[usdm180sx]

there might be. there was a guy selling a 93 mr2 turbo with 2500 miles on it for 45g's. im pretty sure there is some asshole who never drove there 240.

Selling is one thing. Sold is another.

[axiomatik]

??? If I had anything against the 240 I wouldn't own one. I'd have a Supra or a Z33 or whatever. I like my S14 better than all those cars. But my personal preference has nothing to do with how I think other people perceive the car.

That feeling right there is exactly what makes people drop big money for old cars. You seem to assume that 30 years from now, the market will be completely dictated by people who have never owned a 240. That's completely backwards. The market for 240's will be driven by people who used to own one, people just like you and me who 30 years from now, have some extra cash to burn, and want to relive a part of their youth, to build something they never could afford when they were a broke college kid. Those are the people who are driving the muscle car market now, and it's the same type of people who will drive the collector market in the future.

[Matej]

S-chassis is a collector car since most people on here already own more than one.

[atom]

That feeling right there is exactly what makes people drop big money for old cars. You seem to assume that 30 years from now, the market will be completely dictated by people who have never owned a 240. That's completely backwards. The market for 240's will be driven by people who used to own one, people just like you and me who 30 years from now, have some extra cash to burn, and want to relive a part of their youth, to build something they never could afford when they were a broke college kid. Those are the people who are driving the muscle car market now, and it's the same type of people who will drive the collector market in the future.

I said in my very first post in this thread that anything is collectible, so you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. If you're referring to me talking about automotive significance you're taking it out of context. I said that about the 240 being a "classic". Classic is not really the word I'm thinking of but I can't think of a better word. What I mean is the car being collectible, but at that next level.

IE One of my favorite classic muscle cars is the Boss 302. There's a lot of reasons it's so damn expensive and nostalgia is only one of them.

Interesting bit of info: there were more Boss 302's made than Kouki s14 240sx's.

[VROOOM]

I said in my very first post in this thread that anything is collectible, so you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. If you're referring to me talking about automotive significance you're taking it out of context. I said that about the 240 being a "classic". Classic is not really the word I'm thinking of but I can't think of a better word. What I mean is the car being collectible, but at that next level.

IE One of my favorite classic muscle cars is the Boss 302. There's a lot of reasons it's so damn expensive and nostalgia is only one of them.

Interesting bit of info: there were more Boss 302's made than Kouki s14 240sx's.


my dad had a puke green 70 boss 302. he swears it pulled the front wheels off the ground but i dont believe him

[axiomatik]

with the suspension of the 70's, I'm sure it felt like the wheels lifted.

[02BRB20]

S chassis as collector car? Im going to have to say

No.

ppl are barely selling their S's as it is; IFFFFFFF in 15 years emissions and law arent ridiculous and combustion engines are still around then this is what I see happening:

S13 - 5k, vert - 5.5k, zenki - 7k, 98 kouki - 10k. Also really depends on the rate of crashes and inflation. We also dont know what future tech might revolutionize travel, gas cars could become worthless.

annddddddddd everyone cant forget that 00-09 year cars are also going to deflate big time. Zs are getting cheap quick already.

[usdm180sx]

S chassis as collector car? Im going to have to say

No.

ppl are barely selling their S's as it is; IFFFFFFF in 15 years emissions and law arent ridiculous and combustion engines are still around then this is what I see happening:

S13 - 5k, vert - 5.5k, zenki - 7k, 98 kouki - 10k. Also really depends on the rate of crashes and inflation. We also dont know what future tech might revolutionize travel, gas cars could become worthless.

annddddddddd everyone cant forget that 00-09 year cars are also going to deflate big time. Zs are getting cheap quick already.

You're about as correct as a typical economist. Ask an economist 1 question and you'll get 20 answers. God forbid you ask the same question to a room full of economists. The opportunity cost of developing an alternative to a combustion engine is too high to take place in 15 years. Granted hybrids have started the development but even if that were to happen that would make combustion powered cars a rare commodity and that would definitely affect the demand for them because at that point all combustion engine powered cars would be collectors items.

[kuppler8]

i agree with most every one that 240, and plain silvias will be worth next to nothing, i mean as soon as the import seen moves on to the next car prices for 240s will go down. but there are a few cars with the s-chassis i could see pulling a decent dollar in the future i.e the few factory sileightys that nissan made, or how bout the 280sx i think it was, that nissan sent out of its facotry with 280 horsepower stock. Now cars like that people like might pay more money for in the future. and we cant base what will be wirth money in the future on what people are buying now, because its going to be us that will be buying cars from barret-jackson in 30-40 years. and just like the people that r buying cars now, we will probly want cars that we grew up with, the cars that some of lost our v-cards in, the cars that we won our first drifitng / 1/4 / time attack comepetion in. its those cars that will prolly be wirth something someday. (sry if i just repeated what some one else already said i kinda skimmed through the last 4 pages)

[Yuri]

^You mean a 270R?

[kuppler8]

^You mean a 270R?
yes my mistake a 270r

[Koopa Troopa]

i agree with most every one that 240, and plain silvias will be worth next to nothing, i mean as soon as the import seen moves on to the next car prices for 240s will go down. but there are a few cars with the s-chassis i could see pulling a decent dollar in the future i.e the few factory sileightys that nissan made, or how bout the 280sx i think it was, that nissan sent out of its facotry with 280 horsepower stock. Now cars like that people like might pay more money for in the future. and we cant base what will be wirth money in the future on what people are buying now, because its going to be us that will be buying cars from barret-jackson in 30-40 years. and just like the people that r buying cars now, we will probly want cars that we grew up with, the cars that some of lost our v-cards in, the cars that we won our first drifitng / 1/4 / time attack comepetion in. its those cars that will prolly be wirth something someday. (sry if i just repeated what some one else already said i kinda skimmed through the last 4 pages)


Nissan never made a Sileighty.. Kid's Heart did.

[ThatGuy]

Nissan never made a Sileighty.. Kid's Heart did.

He speaks the truth.

Learn your heritage, kids!

[02BRB20]

The opportunity cost of developing an alternative to a combustion engine is too high to take place in 15 years

I think you underestimate the exponential rate of technology. You can not rationally speculate as to what will occur in 15 years and because of this; the idea of combustion engines becoming extinct is really not that farfetched.

On top of that, What if something happens to countries w/ oil? Industry, technology, and the WORLD wont sit around waiting for oil to come back. Drastic events call for drastic measures.

Granted hybrids have started the development but even if that were to happen that would make combustion powered cars a rare commodity and that would definitely affect the demand for them because at that point all combustion engine powered cars would be collectors items.

The second combustion engines stop being used they lose all value. The day will come where combustion engines become outlawed bc of their inefficency. The common man will use w/e new technology is being introduced, professional racing changes, everything does. If no one is using gas powered vehicles then who wants your pollution machine? Only museums and the top 1% collectors would go after gas cars of historical value, i.e mustang or skyline, not a 240sx.

Its like people who use massive steam trains as bar b ques, old technology becomes worthless.

[svensko]

the top 1% collectors would go after gas cars of historical value, i.e mustang

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what? :hahano:

[usdm180sx]

I can speculate all I want, as can anyone on this forum. This is an opinion thread isn't it? The automotive industry is a multi trillion dollar industry. Only the giants like Toyota, Honda and recently, Nissan have started manufacturing hybrid vehicles in steady production.

I'm not saying that the transition won't happen but it happens to be my opinion that the other car companies won't make the transition in 15 years because the opportnity costs are too high. A lot if the smaller companies are struggling just to stay alive. The governments aren't gonna mandate alternatives because each country's economy relies so heavily on cars.

As far as combustion engines losing all value because they aren't being used, that's not gonna happen for a loooooong time. Do you think countries like China (who are all about making $$$ selling cheap imitation cars, among other products, at high volume) are gonna comply? I think not, as long as the chief execs are in good standing with the right govt officials who in turn will provide the proper loopholes so that EVERYONE gets paid. It's all about BUCKS kid. What's ideal and what is reality are 2 TOTALLY different concepts.

But anyway, what do I know? Last time I checked the battery in my crystal ball was dead.

[02BRB20]

The automotive industry is a multi trillion dollar industry. Only the giants like Toyota, Honda and recently, Nissan have started manufacturing hybrid vehicles in steady production.

And the railroad buisness was a multi million dollar industry till the 20th century hit. No one cares about the profit you make and what your buisness is if the world is changing. If Honda's FCX clarity is a sign of things to come, then in 15 years....whewwwwwwwwwwww.

I'm not saying that the transition won't happen but it happens to be my opinion that the other car companies won't make the transition in 15 years because the opportnity costs are too high.

Why should anyone care about small car companies that couldnt adapt to the changing times? That is their fault if they go under. Its like the guy who kept selling VHS when CD's came out, "but the oppurtunity costs to switch over were too much," well great youre out of buisness.

The governments aren't gonna mandate alternatives because each country's economy relies so heavily on cars.

Govs rely on TRANSPORTATION for the economy, it just so happens that the medium that it occurs through are cars and roads. If there is a new, cleaner transportation then the gov wont give 2 shits about combustion. (aka extra $$$$$$$$)

As far as combustion engines losing all value because they aren't being used, that's not gonna happen for a loooooong time. Do you think countries like China (who are all about making $$$ selling cheap imitation cars, among other products, at high volume) are gonna comply? I think not, as long as the chief execs are in good standing with the right govt officials who in turn will provide the proper loopholes so that EVERYONE gets paid. It's all about BUCKS kid. What's ideal and what is reality are 2 TOTALLY different concepts.

Well, first off, China is only like that bc of the US and other countries using China as its manufacturer bc of its weak labor laws and cheap production costs.

In the future if the market doesnt require oil then why would China keep making gas cars? No one would buy them. All it takes is that 1st company to release a new age car for it all to snowball.

I kno its a shame that CEOs and govt officials collaborate to maximize profit by creating laws and slowing down hte introduction of new technology, but revolutions arent dead.

I wrote alot but im just trying to get my point across that the second combustion engines are replaced, all gas powered cars become worthless.

[Yuri]

Obsolete technology doesn't make something worthless.
Last time I checked, Stanley Steamers are still worth $$, and collectable.
Back in their day, they were one of the fastest cars money could buy, setting speed records on Daytona Beach.

On a related subject, anyone ever watch eX-driver?

[usdm180sx]

I wrote alot but im just trying to get my point across that the second combustion engines are replaced, all gas powered cars become worthless.

Well, if you think that all gas powered cars become worthless you have a pretty weak point.

People still use trains.

If I were the CEO or an employee of a car company that I work for, or the president of a country where that company is based and the company is bringing in a substantial source of income for the economy I would care. Porsche is a good example. The are profitable and privately owned. However, other manufacturers (Toyota and Honda) have much larger economies of scale and the transition to alternative powered cars will be much more feasible to them.

You said :If there is a new, cleaner transportation. IF. Hybrids and electric cars have been available. I still don't see the gov't NOT giving 2 shits about combustion powered motors.

I don't disagree with your last point . Of course China will jump on the bandwagon once the technology is developed. It's all about bucks kid. They will mass produce at really low cost (and quality) and explode on the market.

Gas cars won't become worthless. There will always be nostalgic people who will pay for a car they like. Guess what? The 240sx is a car.

[HaNgTyMe]

s14 kouki's would be a treasure ... hard to find now .. think about in the future

[Bobafreak]

Thats why i dont dd my 240 now. As long as the fanboys fuck them up and people crash them, the harder chasis are gonna be to find. But then again what about the z? Its got its years but you dont see alot of those going for alot. Maybe the s chasis will be a different story? Who knows but when i go cruising in mine on a sunday afternoon with the girl like a route 66 mission, people will be like damn i member having that when i was such and such. Its all about the memories man! >_<

[DALAZ_68]

My guess is for verts, 5 speed chukis and 5 speed koukis

AGREEED

since already they are rare as is...

[Antihero983]

Thats why i dont dd my 240 now. As long as the fanboys fuck them up and people crash them, the harder chasis are gonna be to find. But then again what about the z? Its got its years but you dont see alot of those going for alot. >_<


i beg to differ. i found a clean 280Z going for 29K and a clean 280ZX going for 22K. and by clean i mean 1 owner, showroom condition.

[top gun]

I know this thread has been dead for almost ten years now. But I am curious as to what the responses to this thread would be today.
I for one see the s-chassis gaining value pretty steadily every year as clean unmolested examples are getting harder and harder to find . I don't think they will ever become highly valued but they will definitely not be cheap either.

[KiLLeR2001]

Production #'s based on color:

http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=513294

[Felipe]

And special thanks to people under the influence of hoonigan mind control... Price and value can go either way lol

[BoostyMcZface]

And special thanks to people under the influence of hoonigan mind control... Price and value can go either way lol


Seriously. I felt it was time to buy another just for this reason... they're getting harder to find well taken care of, and the nice examples that are redone and modified without the hoon swag drift life in mind ive seen go for 10- 15k+ already. One day they'll gain value, but it'll be once that crowd destroys a good portion of them. They'll never come close to the Supra, NSX, etc though

[wezurii]

And it isn't only happening in america, in europe they keep rising to, couple of years you had a nice clean sx, now that same one is dubbel it's price

[lunchmeat]

Rare status with a cult following? Sure. Collector car status, doubt it. I've got a 68 mustang coupe that falls into this. It's rare to see one, but in the end, it's just an old ass car that came with a lackluster straight 6. There's nothing special about it. It's not a Shelby, or even a gt. Since its common, I have no hangups about slapping in a 2jz into it just to piss off the purists. Or a barra if I could get my hands on one.

[HaoleBarry]

Now heading into 2017 in a few months and after searching for a nice clean "not salvaged" 100% stock Kouki for 3months straight, I found one that wasn't being sold by some young kid who overpriced it because him and a few of his buddies slapped this and that on it.... Not a thing was altered on this 1997 OG everything down to the tape deck with the window sticker still in the glove

I'm more than happy to tell people the numbers of these in the US and park all the way in BFE when going to the store or mall to prevent door dings.... im cool with cult following rare status