Locked out of Republican Debate- Fox? Ron Paul

[steve shadows]

WARNING this thread might inspire you to think so don't read it if you might become angered easily or pissed off because I make political posts lately.
I do these posts on my own accord as an educate student of business and political science, no one gives me shit, so don't try to come at me with I'm a speaker box bs like other threads where I voiced my opinion.
Thoughts on this?

Ron Paul has gotten more donations in the 4th 1/4 than any candidate and beat Giuliani by 5% in the Iowa Primary?

Aren’t people in this country asking themselves what is going on?

We deserve the government we get?

Come on people wake up here.

In fact you can't even find an AP or legitimate news story about this even happening

maybe because they are not even legitimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVcDDb9bq34

"Only in New Hampshire do lesser known, lesser funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures," Cullen said. "Consistent with that tradition, we believe all recognized major candidates should have an equal opportunity to participate in pre-primary debates and forums."

Underfunded?

Please I beg of you prove that he has far less donations and support than Giuliani?

Or at least lost to Giuliani in Iowa...

well he didn’t.

HE BEAT GULLIANI BY 5 WHOLE PERCENT IN IOWA

:eek2:

thats' twice.

Gulliani recieved 5% of the Iowa primary vote, Ron Paul recieved 10

While everyone is obsessed with "American Gladiator" a train is being run on open media and real freedom apparently.

[SimpleSexy180]

you know, it really pissed me off about that.
but, a lot of america is hearing his message and changing.
yet, their is still a good portion of america that needs to wake the fuck up.

RON PAUL SPIT HOT FIRE!

"FAUX NEWS
WE REPORT, YOU COMPLY"

http://i14.tinypic.com/89g5nd1.jpg

[DUFFM4N]

i was watched Jay Leno last night too :keke:...but i totally agree with you both

[exitspeed]

PLEASE just keep personal attacks out of this thread and all will be good. Do it for me.

[steve shadows]

I have been trying to source anything in news about this today, but it has been hard, here is one article.

Ron Paul indeed Out-Foxed (for now)
by Jason George

Fergus Cullen, chairman of the New Hampshire State Republican Committee, confirmed Sunday evening to the Tribune that, yes, there will be a televised Fox News presidential candidate forum on Jan. 6, and yes, Rep. Ron Paul was not invited when the other candidates were a week or so ago.

"My understanding is that five candidates to that point had been offered spots but the event is still coming together," Cullen said.

The candidates invited to the forum/debate – whatever you want to call it – will be Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain, Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. Fred Thompson.

Cullen said the event, which is set to take place two days before the New Hampshire primary, will be held in the afternoon or evening at St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H. When asked if Fox News, which is co-sponsoring the debate with the NH party, planned to invite Paul later, Cullen said he didn't know.

"It's really premature. Just the other day candidates started to accept invitations."

On Saturday, Paul called Fox News "scared of me." They "don't want my message to get out, but it will," according to The Boston Globe's Primary Source blog.

"They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

On Sunday night, Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said the campaign remains angry, and in the dark.

"We have not heard anything else today," he said. "[Fox] continues to ignore our calls."

[BustedS13]

ron paul denies evolution
ron paul wants to do away with taxes?
ron paul is fucking batshit crazy

....fox news is a joke, but seriously

[SimpleSexy180]

evolution has nothing to do with his program to fix our economy.

do away with taxes? hell yes

yes he is fucking crazy. but i LOVE IT!

faux news, most definitely

[BustedS13]

do away with taxes? hell yes

look, i don't think that taxes shouldn't be optional. but here's the option.

1.) don't pay taxes, and, in turn, when your house catches on fire, no fire department. when somebody breaks into your house, don't call 911, because the police aren't coming. oh, and you can't drive on the roads or walk on the sidewalk.
2.) pay taxes and shut the fuck up

[SimpleSexy180]

*sigh* its only thought that way because we grow up thinking that way.

its not as simple as "ok by bye taxes!" "ok we are free now!"

we should stay on topic first. this thread is about why he was turned away from faux.

faux is an embarrassment because of this. Plain and simple, they want tools to be heard instead of the truth.

[BustedS13]

fox news is a joke for sure. seriously, absolutely worthless television.

[Rob's S14]

I can't stand fox news either. Even though I may not agree with Ron Paul or someone else, it doesn't mean they should be allowed to debate. Another thing that went under the radar was the debate that was moderated by Tavis Smiley, none of the major Republican Candidates went to. It seemed like a slap in the face.

[steve shadows]

ron paul denies evolution
ron paul wants to do away with taxes?
ron paul is fucking batshit crazy

....fox news is a joke, but seriously

You like income taxes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A

He doesnt deny evolution's existence, he is rumored to support creationism (does that mean a literal interpretation of Genisis?) NO.

He accepts it as a "theory" just like everyone...

Keep in mind he was Military MEDICAL Doctor. I am pretty sure he understands basic science, as he is an M.D. for chrissake


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw


You must have all your money invested in Gold if your so debonaire in your critisms of the guy.

FOX might be worthless to you, but to get out a candidates message in obviously the most pivotal primary state to general America, it's essential.

It's great how people will hug onto the tiniest fucking thing to negate everythin else he has to say, so that a said version of reality, existance and comfort is not questioned.


BACK TO THE MAIN POINT


Why would a network do this? Which candidate is fox trying to Bolster?

[axiomatik]

[I]WARNING this thread might inspire you to think

A thread about a Republican debate might inspire you to think?? :keke: Sorry, I couldn't resist.


"Only in New Hampshire do lesser known, lesser funded underdogs have a fighting chance to establish themselves as national figures,".......

lol, what about Iowa? Why does anyone care about Huckabee? Because he was able to succeed in Iowa.

[fromxtor]

Dr. Ron Paul For President 2008!

[steve shadows]

A thread about a Republican debate might inspire you to think?? :keke: Sorry, I couldn't resist.




lol, what about Iowa? Why does anyone care about Huckabee? Because he was able to succeed in Iowa.

He was leading in national polling a short while back for Republicans in general.

all candidates Waffle on that issue so they don't lose the btfkcrazy mid west/south evangelical vote, come on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjYv2YW6azE

lol

CHUCK!!!

This is the kind of message that resonates with Huck supporters? Im going to kick your ass and kill you if you dont vote for me?

[zenki-217]

RON PAUL 08... I dont give a shit about polls and what not Im still going to vote for Ron Paul reguardless.

[muddafakka]

Dr. Ron Paul For President 2008!

Hell yeah! :bigok:

[steve shadows]

This thread is giving me a tear of hope :aw:

[Matej]

Doing away with taxes won't happen, at least not anytime soon.


By the way does anyone else think that retired senior citizens shouldn't be allowed to vote? Or maybe their votes should be worth half or something.
My reasoning is that every time there's a voting booth, you see a stream of senior citizens barely able to walk pouring in and out, they always seem to vote for the "wrong" person as they don't care how their vote is going to affect younger people who still have a future ahead of themselves. That's why candidates aim their campaigns at senior voters, they're one of the largest voting groups and they're the easiest to manipulate. Meanwhile most senior citizens aren't contributing anything to society, they're just taking from it.
I know I may seem harsh, but it's true.

[steve shadows]

Doing away with taxes won't happen, at least not anytime soon.

why not? whats keeping it from happening?

What if we sold a portion of Alaska as property and then BOUGHT the FED back.

I overheard a radio program suggesting it would only cost about 450 mil, which is far less than our net national debt (in total) ammounting to nearly 50 trillion

we could then start to address a gradual roll back of the current tax system.

[Matej]

why not? whats keeping it from happening?

What if we sold a portion of Alaska as property and then BOUGHT the FED back.
You could if you were a dictator with total control.

[steve shadows]

You could if you were a dictator with total control.

Or you could just VOTE

If people only allowed candidates who supported this type of legislative roll back to be in office things would begin to change, hence "democratic republic" that we live in...


:rolleyes:

[Jtuned_andy]

I am really 100% what Ron Paul is running for, in your honest opinion do you think he has a chance of winning?

[s13Dr1ft]

I havent followed much into any of the people running this year. I dont consider myself in any "groups", I guess im independant?

Its so hard to swallow anyones BS they spout off during campaigns anymore.
But if i do vote, i will pobably vote Ron Paul.

[Rob's S14]

It's hard for very drastic changes to happen that quickly. I don't totally disagree with income taxes, I just think they are implemented incorrectly right now.

Also, I think we should get rid of the electoral college. I think that if the popular vote was the only thing counted it would encourage more people to vote.

[Matej]

Or you could just VOTE

If people only allowed candidates who supported this type of legislative roll back to be in office things would begin to change, hence "democratic republic" that we live in...


:rolleyes:
Haha I can't vote because I have a green card, and before anyone says anything don't worry, I'm paying your taxes. :bigok:

It definitely is possible to do away with taxes, I just don't think it can happen during the presidency of just one president, there will always be someone in the government voting against everything, plus our tax money is kind of funding them being there. If they feel like their paychecks may somehow be threatened, they'll be reluctant and cautious about it. Maybe one president will start working towards it, and the next one will have a completely different ideology, and we'll be at square one, though if it'll seem likely that it's going to work out, I'm sure it's possible.

Are taxes really that bad though? Pretty much every other country in the world is being funded by taxes, it has been that way for hundreds of years. Taxes are used to make improvements to the country, and if you don't see any improvements being made, well, maybe the government is corrupt. I don't mind taxes that much, if our tax money went towards free healthcare and a better more advanced public transportation system instead of building a bubble around the U.S., I'd actually be all up for taxes. You don't know how it is to live somewhere where you can break your legs and arms every other month and have surgery and pay nothing, but I do and it's baller haha.

[steve shadows]

I am really 100% what Ron Paul is running for, in your honest opinion do you think he has a chance of winning?

does it matter?

vote in the primary, then if he doesnt win don't vote at all for all I care.



Are taxes really that bad though? Pretty much every other country in the world is being funded by taxes, it has been that way for hundreds of years. Taxes are used to make improvements to the country, and if you don't see any improvements being made, well, maybe the government is corrupt. I don't mind taxes that much, if our tax money went towards free healthcare and a better more advanced public transportation system instead of building a bubble around the U.S., I'd actually be all up for taxes. You don't know how it is to live somewhere where you can break your legs and arms every other month and have surgery and pay nothing, but I do and it's baller haha.

It has been that way since Land Owners changed from a fuedal society, into one that was on the surface a "democracy" but used the control of money and assets to adjust inlfation to effect changes internally in the new invention of the day : nation-state.

Now the the nation-state is no longer required and the world has become smaller due to technological advances, more control can be exerted over a larger range by using taxes, and public service.

MOST OF THE PROBLEMS TAXES SUPPOSEDLY FIX ARE CREATED BY GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE OR THE TAX ITSELF!

Think about it.

You want to fix education so you create a government bureaucracy that miss-manages (on purpose) so then you can pass more laws suggesting the problem of education requires more tax dollars (more of your paper earnings) to fix the problem that government miss-managed in the first place. Causing you to work indefinitely to fix a problem that will never go away.

If you want precedent for taxes for fixing the highway: Destroy the high way with over-congestion, then raise the taxes on income for the middle tax (most frequent auto-commuters) via a gas tax, and then siphon all the money away from High way programs (as Swarztenagger has done in California) to fund social welfare programs and entitlement programs that exacerbate the overcrowding by giving poor foreign nationals hope and incentive to move here, compounding the congestion even more.

It's pretty simple. People have just become pretty dumb.


TAXES need to be around to

suppor some forms of
state funded univeral education
national defense
national security
border defense
ecological oversight

and some other key things.

WHICH CAN ALL BE ACHIEVED THROUGH SOME FORM OF FLAT SALES taxation.

not graduated progressive and contantly adapted tax system (that changes with the winds of the economy to influence the sizes of consuming classes).

I'd actually be all up for taxes. You don't know how it is to live somewhere where you can break your legs and arms every other month and have surgery and pay nothing, but I do and it's baller haha.

In a real free economy taxes and operating costs as well as smaller health care providers + charity would be much more free flowing.

You come from the socialist class view according to your sentiments , obviously a resident not a citizen. Where are you from Madrid?

Which pseudo-socialist system do you hail from, where you are completely content working for only a fraction of what you earn?

Are you comfortable not taking responsibility for your person welfare? Is governments job to see to your sustinence, comfort, and everyone elses in the way they see fit and the price of your earnings?

-steve

[iwishiwas-all*]

he is VERY intriguing, especially being a college student when most students are generally liberal, he has gotten alot of support from my peers. I like his idea of smaller government and simplifying our government, but the taxes thing scares me, but the only consolation to his outlandish ideas is that if elected the BULK of them (destroying all the agencies and the taxes) will not simply be approved by congress, I can guarantee it. that means he will have to be more accommodating and progressive with his ideas which should make him into a better leader.

Next few months are gonna tell alot!

[atom]

The scariest thing about Ron Paul is not his ideas (which really most of them aren't that outlandish) but that people, especially young people, are gobbling up what he's saying without asking "How?". Did you see him on meet the press? He got grilled on his tax reform stance and he had no numbers, not even ballpark, nor any solid specifics to back up his ideas.

He's an interesting guy and I like some of his ideas but ideas are nothing without execution.

As far as the fox thing goes, it's Fox. I'll never understand what they do so I'm not even gonna try.

[mademedoit]

ron paul denies evolution
ron paul wants to do away with taxes?
ron paul is fucking batshit crazy

....fox news is a joke, but seriously
All the candidates believe in god and thus will deni evolution, unless they can believe bullshit bible stories like Noah's Ark and still understand the fact that their are billions of different species on this Earth.:loco: Ron Paul is also pro-life:madfawk: witch I disagree with but he is still my favorite candidate and gets my vote.:bigok: ...nobody's perfect

[whitefro]

Live Free Or Die!

[Dirty Habit]

Live Free Or Die!

Psst....


Everyone dies.

[steve shadows]

he might be pro-life but he won't veto roe-vs-wade.

there is so much bullshit out there about this guy for a reason.

You don't know why FOX would do something like this?

I have a theory, block a growingly strong independent thinking libertarian conservative from even being allowed to get his message out the night before a big primary (because he stands out from the crowd on opinions), hence the sheep don't even know he EXISTS!

PS. None of the other candidates have even come close to formulating or speeking about any of the even GENERAL plans they have for the country. No specifics, Ron Paul has the most specific arguments and plans of any of the candidates and yet people still try to rationalize all the propoganda they have being fed, that some how he is 'batshit fuckin crazy"

Psst....


Everyone dies.


would you like that greatly accelerated by a failed economy and dollar worth as much as the PESO?
Pretty sad if you ask me.

[eastcoastS14]

evolution has nothing to do with his program to fix our economy.


lol I want my president to believe in evolution and not think that god burried all the dinosaur skeletons to test his faith lol...that may be fine for the govenor of Mississippi lol but not the leader of the a Global Super power

[steve shadows]

lol I want my president to believe in evolution and not think that god burried all the dinosaur skeletons to test his faith lol...that may be fine for the govenor of Mississippi lol but not the leader of the a Global Super power

Have you been paying attention or are you brain washed by Clinton bullshit?

He believed there is not enough proof to prove either theory.

Its a political footbal. You think he could even be an M.D. at all if he believed the THEORY of evolution was completely false.

Those words were taken out of context of one particular town hall meeting in a VERY religious part of the country, where people would probably not vote for RP at all if he did not make a vague response regarding his true belief on the matter. I do with great confidence and by viewing the mans record, think that he approaches everything with a scientific evaluation. No theory that cannot be tested and studied in real time can be rendered total fact.

[eastcoastS14]

lol nah I mean Ive never even heard him say anything about evolution to be honest....Im just responding to BustedS13s post which is the first Ive heard of this matter. I like some of his ideas a lot, I do find it somewhat ridiculous that any one in the year 2007 with all the advances in sciences and genetics could say they were unsure about evolution.....not enough evidence to prove evolution? Are you shitting me? How much more evidence do you need? Show me one shred of evidence pointing towards intelligent design or whatever....I understand that if you want to be elected in this country you have to have personal faith of some type (which is stupid anyway) so by not taking a stance one way or another you dont alienate any potential voters....but seriously I call bullshit on anyone who says they are unsure about evolution or that "there is not enough proof" give me a fucking break

[atom]

he might be pro-life but he won't veto roe-vs-wade.

there is so much bullshit out there about this guy for a reason.

You don't know why FOX would do something like this?

I have a theory, block a growingly strong independent thinking libertarian conservative from even being allowed to get his message out the night before a big primary (because he stands out from the crowd on opinions), hence the sheep don't even know he EXISTS!



He's been on every political talk show, he's been on Leno twice, and his campaign fundraising success is all the buzz on every news channel, even Fox news. Most people who would turn in to see a political debate on Fox news already knows who he is.

PS. None of the other candidates have even come close to formulating or speeking about any of the even GENERAL plans they have for the country. No specifics, Ron Paul has the most specific arguments and plans of any of the candidates and yet people still try to rationalize all the propoganda they have being fed, that some how he is 'batshit fuckin crazy"

Ron Paul doesn't have any plans, he has ideas. And again this goes back to the "How?" part. IE We know Hillary is big on health care and Edwards on economic reform so those are gonna be the things they would push if elected. With a little searching on google or their own website I can easily find out how they'd try to do it.

Can you say the same for Ron Paul? So he wants to get rid of income tax. He also doens't think we need the Federal Reserve, IRS, dept. of education, dept. of energy, etc. etc. Do you know how he'd supplant their services? No. I don't think he even knows how.

Thats a big problem for a guy that wants to make the most radical changes to our government.

[Adikt]

Make sure all you guys vote on who you think is the best guy for the job. Why sit here and bitch about our president 2 years down the line when your vote could have possibly changed that outcome. Go out, pick who you believe will bring the best future for this country and VOTE!!!

[steve shadows]

Ron Paul doesn't have any plans, he has ideas.


What is the difference? How have Hillary and Edwards point by point explained their planned bills and exact map of policy in order in a time based enviornmet? Do you believe they will actually vote or big a bill that does these things, because their voting history has shown they almost always vote the OPPOSITE way they profess, especially regarding the most pressing issues like economic liberty and foriegn policy (ie premptive war doctrine). I hope your not falling for the BS. Hillary might as well be Gulliani on the issues that will actually effec you and me on a day to day basis.

And again this goes back to the "How?" part. IE We know Hillary is big on health care and Edwards on economic reform so those are gonna be the things they would push if elected. With a little searching on google or their own website I can easily find out how they'd try to do it.

Yeah HOW? Hillary and Edwards are big on the IDEA of public health care. May I remind you that when you ask government to give you something you then become reliant on the machine to provide it, you lessen your free choice and Pork Barrelling becomes a much easier thing to attach to the plethora of uselss shit bills our tax dollars fund. How have the in specifics details exactly how they are going to IMPROVE the economy or change health care? You think adding to the beuacracy and federal government will help simplify your choices and life as you know it? Ron Paul is the only candidate who says what needs to be said and actually is willing to admit that the direction the government has taken has not benefited the people, better than less government. We have accumulated more debt and lost more personal freedoms under the policies of Clintons' husband and our current president than ever before. Not to mention they have almost identical PRACTICES (not spoken rhetoric) but practices in regards to supporting pre-emptive bankrupting wars, of varying sizes.

Can you say the same for Ron Paul? So he wants to get rid of income tax. He also doens't think we need the Federal Reserve, IRS, dept. of education, dept. of energy, etc. etc. Do you know how he'd supplant their services? No. I don't think he even knows how.

I will post this video again because no one seems to want a watch it. If you don't believe it (or think its some crackpot bullshit) go do your own research and you will see as I have this is true.



WE NEED DEBT? We need constantly generating serfdom to a currency that is worth nothing? Thats what you want for your children? A glass ceiling created by a faux capitalist system. This is not a free market, it has become a manipulated mixed economy, sort of like the way the Soviet Union went.

Thats a big problem for a guy that wants to make the most radical changes to our government.

It really is not a big problem. How else should he express the way he would make the changes? He will make the changes by enacting executive orders and bills, just like our current President and Bill Clinton have done (however most of their executive orders and bills revolved around dilluting the 2nd amendment and right to privacy/free speech and expression).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A

here is the video I mentioned in my response, if anything just watch the first 2:00-6:00 minutes. then do some of your own research.

Then explain to me why we need the FED and a currency that is not tied to anything (like gold) which is just paper.

Im all ears.

Do you want our countries biggest BUSINESS to be it's CENTRAL GOVERNMENT

that is called democratic-socialism my friend. Where a MAJORITY rules the MINORITY in tyranny and taxation in furtherance of government set policy for the region/nation/union (ie the amero)

[unwed_transient]

the idealism of youth will soon be replaced by a more utilitarian pragmatism.


paul's ideas are novel. but he would never get them passed. good luck repealing a constitutional amendment without the support of congress.

i'll vote for who i think will beat the other guy/gal.

call me small-minded.

[steve shadows]

Beat the other guy? You think they are any different if every one is so anti-primary?

After the primary you think if McCain or Hillary were elected their policies would be even close to discernibly different?

Have you been watching stock-market, currency and forecloses today?

Show me debates where there was more than one specific question posed to strengthening the dollar or the domestic economy?

And anyone gives a clear answer?

Even though it is the most highly rated concern by voters in the elections so far...

It is not the idealism of youth that is being stomped out. These are very old ideas that our founding fathers pushed for. The older generations have lost, and more recent generations like our grandparents and their parents have been indoctrinated into by federalist policies given PRECEDENT because of situations in the economy like the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Foreclosures are basically the new Margin loan calls, like the Banks called in before the great depression.

Because loaners are calling in there loans on housing (and the dollar is tied to the housing market now) we are on the road to total economic collapse, starting with the dollar.

Men believe what they CHOOSE I suppose.

[PRADOgy]

Were all gona die by 1212 any way! FTL

[steve shadows]

hahah yeah right, more bullshit

maybe if we all voluntarily commit suicide.

here is a vid of Paul from last night, nearly tied with Gulliani

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PWc3d_TsFgM

:loco: :)


oh yeah this is from 2002

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLV7zDhKzDY

[VROOOM]

the idealism of youth will soon be replaced by a more utilitarian pragmatism.


paul's ideas are novel. but he would never get them passed. good luck repealing a constitutional amendment without the support of congress.

i'll vote for who i think will beat the other guy/gal.

call me small-minded.


why not just vote for the prettiest or best dressed.

[MELLO*SOS]

I was thinking about this while I was brushing my teeth this morning with the TV news on in the background and it was pissing me off. Same kind of shit that happens to any libertarian candidate, its almost like they don't want people to know there are rational candidates out there who'll call the BS.

And to everyone arguing about the taxation issues... It's not like you just do away with taxes and that's it. Things will absolutely still need to be paid for to continue providing a similar level of service for our citizens. Have you considered that many traditional public services can be privatized? The difference is that it's ran by businesses who want to turn a profit; so they're typically more efficient than the federal govt (who can essentially run things as inefficiently as possible and drive us into debt indefinitely). It's not like you're going to stop paying "taxes" and have all this money laying around, with fires raging and roads unpaved... Your traditional tax monies go elsewhere, probably paid as service charges for using the "public" utilities and systems that you already use. You already pay for 911, roadways, fire, etc through vehicle registration, property tax, state income tax and federal income tax. But what level of service do you get for all this money you pay? Can you really say that the way things are ran are acceptable? Barely adequate still isn't acceptable IMO. At some point I think most people tend to admit to themselves that our red vs blue mindset has fucked our economy and society so badly that things are no longer getting accomplished because of the bullshit politics and corruption/greed. You and I have lost control of our government, despite the guise of freedom through voting and democracy.

Do any of you know even know what the libertarian party is or represents? Especially those of you whose political beliefs are based on what your mom and dad think/tell you. I think most of you would be surprised where your true beliefs lie, chances are they are outside the scope of traditional "democrat" vs "republican". Take this and maybe you'll understand yourself a little better: http://www.ontheissues.org/quizeng/XPolitics/start.asp

Analogy... Just because your parents and most people around you drive a Chevy or a Ford doesn't mean those are the only two options available; they're the two that you've been exposed to and bombarded with. Get it?

Were all gona die by 1212 any way! FTL

It's 2012 dude not 1212 LOL

Steve jw if you're registered libertarian or republican? I'm libertarian but will vote for Ron Paul. I always enjoy your poli threads, you are one of the few people on here to see what's going on around them and call the BS out.

In case someone reading still has no idea who this Ron Paul fellow is...

Click here and read up: http://ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm

In fact, go there and read up about all your favorite candidates and what they stand for. Why pick and choose which rights you think you deserve? Don't you deserve all of them? Like it or not your typical D/R candidates are going to vehemently defend a handful of your rights and diligently work to restrict or repeal the others, while systematically fucking you and your fellow americans.

Don't fuck up again this year at the polls america.

/pw

[steve shadows]

Have you been watching network news? well don't but ill sum it up for you.

Most of the "issues" talked about before the first primaries in preditions of outcomes, ranked nationl polling data for candidates on issues most commonly on the following

-likeability
-electability
-association or appearance

that’s right.

Find me some national polling data that focuses on a single key issue, rather than the plethora of "Electability" Polls.

What the hell does that even mean?

PLEASE WATCH THIS TOO< if you care and are not voting based on dress> lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjZBOCAgR64

He works for the Congress and US....

[Rayne]

Voter fraud, this early in the primaries? Who won the New Hampshire Republican primaries? Looking at the numbers Ron Paul did. ("http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=qV6qAGigGYY&rel=1)

[1 88 U]

Paul is a racist
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html

[articdragon192]

How does that make him a racist? He opposed the act, not racial relations.

[SimpleSexy180]

your link has failed rayne ...care to relink?

[steve shadows]

I'm a registered Republican :)


Remeber most of what Ron Paul is supporting (as suggested libertarian or not) was the GOP (Republican Parties) Plank for the better part of American history. It's only in the last 75 years or so that Federalism has replaced constitutionalism as the guards of the Republic's party platform.

Democrats have become (Euro-style) Socialist-Democrats

not sure if you can vote for Ron in the primary if you are not.

Some states are different?

I think if you are registered independent you can vote for either.

I will probably switch to Ind after the primaries.

[steve shadows]

Paul is a racist
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul188.html

I am really trying to not resort to personal attacks.

But how in God's name does that make him a racist mr. 90 posts total.

Do you know what pork is? in Bills?

There have been so many laws or acts that precribe to do good things but have so much civil liberty destroying extras attatched to them that people never see the fine print.

He is RIGHT!

Plus in today's society do we really still need a law to tell people to respect each other and not view each other based on race?

The government has to enforce this? Again more Pork added to a on face brilliant act by our government.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society.

He is right! If we continually obsess as the left wing has over each other's differences, RATHER than our similarities, then we will not see our fellow man as our fellow man but as a man apart. hello...

This is why the worst thing for minorities in a modernizing world and economy is government reliance and hand outs. They become dependent on the fact that they believe they ARE disenfranchised because the US govt tells them they are and tells them they need help (specifically economic) so instead of striving for Master's degrees or self-reliance they become a slave to food stamps and other welfare policies. This is the most racist operation of all!



Let's get back to the issue though. The issue of us possibly losing America as we know it thanks to the continual anti-constitutional parade of bullshit candidates.

The people in power want the election to be between Hillary and McCain.

Check out their voting records...

We might as well have a one party system :-/

[steve shadows]

haha

let's not let this die because some miss-informed ass tried to get the race card involved in Ron Paul being banned from FOX debates.

Anyone else want to share their political views on the election...

[fromxtor]

Ill be voting for him in the FL primary.

[steve shadows]

kickass. I'm just tierd of people complaining and not voting/doing something.

we're at the disposal of much older generations who seem to not give a shit about our ability to make a place for ourselves in life and live in real freedom.

especially that of the rights to property.

google : imminent domain

[Rob's S14]

I'll be voting for sure, but I haven't decided yet.

I wish whoever takes over would get rid of the electoral college bs.

I agree Steve that Ron Paul is technically right about the Civil Rights act, but at the time I think it was necessary.

[steve shadows]

I agree that the idea of a bill similar to it was needed. But today a lot of the pork needs to be cut out, we just can't afford it.

Hillary will be total f-ed

Obama is good on foreign policy IDEAS.

Rudy will not save the dollar, he might be better than Hillary for my tastes though.

Huckabee is too christian for me but I really like his ideas on reducing the income tax, supporting a flat style tax instead etc.

McCain and Romney are faux Republicans imo, they are Moderate Democratic Oligarchs.

[Rob's S14]

Faux republican's..haha.

Honestly I'm still undecided but what I hate is that unless you're republican or democrat no matter how good you are, you really have no chance. I don't get why we can't change that. As far as I know most other countries that have elections have atleast 3-4 parties that have a shot depending on who's running.

[unwed_transient]

Beat the other guy? You think they are any different if every one is so anti-primary?

After the primary you think if McCain or Hillary were elected their policies would be even close to discernibly different?

Have you been watching stock-market, currency and forecloses today?

Show me debates where there was more than one specific question posed to strengthening the dollar or the domestic economy?

And anyone gives a clear answer?

Even though it is the most highly rated concern by voters in the elections so far...

It is not the idealism of youth that is being stomped out. These are very old ideas that our founding fathers pushed for. The older generations have lost, and more recent generations like our grandparents and their parents have been indoctrinated into by federalist policies given PRECEDENT because of situations in the economy like the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Foreclosures are basically the new Margin loan calls, like the Banks called in before the great depression.

Because loaners are calling in there loans on housing (and the dollar is tied to the housing market now) we are on the road to total economic collapse, starting with the dollar.

Men believe what they CHOOSE I suppose.

i didn't refer to ron paul as an idealist. i was referring you your "idealism at the voting booth".

no difference between clinton and mccain? their ideologies on defense, border security and economic policy are night and day.

i'll admit paul would rid the country of the wasteful social welfare and environmental spending, but he doesn't hold the silver bullet to our economic woes. sure he plans to do away with the dept of education, irs and other gov agencies, but i've heard just as many empty platitudes from him as i have from any other candidate.

men believe what they choose to believe? not exactly the most insightful observation, but of course they do. quite the tactic to imply that simply because someone does not agree with you, they are somehow ignorant of facts or selective in their acknowledgment of facts.

i'd vote for paul if i thought he had a snowball's chance. since he doesn't i'll most likely sit the primary out and wait for the general election. after all, what do you get besides the right to bitch and moan if you vote your soul and lose instead of voting to win and actually winning? nothing.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Im pretty open about this whole voting thing. Depending on who wins the primary will dictate who I vote for.

Gulliani has no chance in hell of winning...Who the fuck are thompson and romney??? In all honesty, I dont see Ron Paul getting the primary. I think the republicans see him as too damn liberal and a loose canon.

If I vote republican, itll be either ron paul or mccain.
Democrat if Obama or edwards goes to the primary, Hillary is too bi-polar and a crazy bitch (plus shes not pro-military). She changes her mind more often than Bill has a new GF.

[steve shadows]

Ron Paul WON the FOX NEWS Debate Poll for the evening!

and they didnt even mention his name after the godarn debate coverage for the entire hour following.

such propoganda bullshit









no difference between clinton and mccain? their ideologies on defense, border security and economic policy are night and day.

i'll admit paul would rid the country of the wasteful social welfare and environmental spending, but he doesn't hold the silver bullet to our economic woes. sure he plans to do away with the dept of education, irs and other gov agencies, but i've heard just as many empty platitudes from him as i have from any other candidate.

.


Compare their actual voting policies, Liberman and McCain sponsored a lot of bills together, McCain invented the Amnesty bill that was yelled down out of congress by citizens slamming their district representitves.

Compare Hillaries and McCains ACUTAL VOTING records and bills, they support the same or similar policies, by supporting larger govt spending in one way or another, it is more like grey vs. light grey rhetoric when you are actually comparing what they will do when in office and how much actual "reform" or "change" to offset the coming ecnomic fuck up we are approaching due to these types of policies.

The only reason why he doesnt have a "snoballs' chance in hell is because people believed that from the outset without doing ANY research personally in any of the actual voting records or facts. It's kind of sad, but FOX news is really hypnotic I guess.

[BustedS13]

http://i17.tinypic.com/6kp6176.jpg

[Helghast]

Politics and Religion shouldn't mix anyways.

who gives a fuck if he doesn't believe in evolution, his foreign policies and economic stance more than makes up for it.

Also, he's not a goddamn flip flopper.
and doesn't cry.
and doesn't say 9/11 every time he gets.

[unwed_transient]

Ron Paul WON the FOX NEWS Debate Poll for the evening!

and they didnt even mention his name after the godarn debate coverage for the entire hour following.

such propoganda bullshit










Compare their actual voting policies, Liberman and McCain sponsored a lot of bills together, McCain invented the Amnesty bill that was yelled down out of congress by citizens slamming their district representitves.

Compare Hillaries and McCains ACUTAL VOTING records and bills, they support the same or similar policies, by supporting larger govt spending in one way or another, it is more like grey vs. light grey rhetoric when you are actually comparing what they will do when in office and how much actual "reform" or "change" to offset the coming ecnomic fuck up we are approaching due to these types of policies.

The only reason why he doesnt have a "snoballs' chance in hell is because people believed that from the outset without doing ANY research personally in any of the actual voting records or facts. It's kind of sad, but FOX news is really hypnotic I guess.

i like lieberman alot actually. it's too bad he didn't come over to the reps.

i misspoke on the border security issue. mccain has no plan to secure our borders because amnesty minus a total closing of the border actually invites more illegal immigration. and mccain will be just like bush regarding the border.
that single issue has more of an impact on the economy than any other anyone has discussed.

he's (paul) the 21st century ross perot. nobody is going to let that happen again.

[slidingsky]

I like Ron Paul but for some reason it just seems that he doesn't speak as well as the other candidates. It's like the little brother that is trying to hang out with the older brother and his friends. He has good/great ideas but America will pick someone like Huckabee or Romney because of the way they speak/handle themselves.

Sounds stupid? Maybe, but people are trying to stay away from another Bush-esque speaker. Will Farrell said it best, "Strategery"

[steve shadows]

it doesn’t matter what other people will do.

It matters what you will do.

You have become a tool of your own devices and miss-conceptions as well as miss-information.

McCain supported AN OPENING of the border, he also supports the American Union, which is an end to our currency and sovereignty as we know it.

Stop telling me what other Americans might blindly do. You say Ron Paul doesn’t seem to speak as well as others? He is the only one saying anything intelligible at all!

The other candidates just say "we should stop this and Terrorist Terrorist Terrorist IRAN IRAN IRAN and I support this kicking some major ass"

Ron Paul gives specific examples of why we have these problems. He brings up the FED, interest rates, the Austrian form of economic planning and interest rate control, supply-side economics and other technical ideas.

If he doesn’t speak as well (or seem not to) it is simply because Americans have become so glassy eyed and so manipulated they can't even understand direct firm answers with scientific credibility.

Thinks about.

Plus if he sucks so bad at "public speaking" as you say then why did win FOX news's own national poll, post debate last night?

Coincidence? A Lie?

Think for yourself, research for yourself. Everyone just wants wide eyed, ass-kicking statements like Huckabee "we would show those Iranians the Gates of hell"

well great but we are bankrupt, does our economy not affect our National Security: well actually throughout history it has been the soul most important thing to our National Security.

Wake up


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI


now watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc5zykDT0PU

research this piece of shit.

It's called learned marketing. they tell you what to want.


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/shadowerks/ronpaulpole.jpg

[Grendel]

Man, I just finished watching all 5 parts of those Zeitgeist movies Steve posted. Pretty crazy stuff.

[steve shadows]

here check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrt2h1AH_A

sound like the problems were currently dealing with?

[Helghast]

This was him speaking in 2002 about how terrible the idea of preemptive strike is to Iraq was.

He drops the knowledge and walks off.
A Pure Bad Ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLV7zDhKzDY

(this thread is too long, I'm not sure if this has been posted.)

[Captain_Obvious]

You people love your freedom!

[slidingsky]

Before you start bashing me Steve, I just stated how I felt I saw him speak. Everything he said was dead on. Fix the problems at hand and don't create new ones to put it in cliff notes. I believe in what he says is the right direction we need to follow.

I SUPPORT RON PAUL!

I watched Hannity and Colmes afterwards and was doing backflips when America voted him the winner.

I can only hope this will turn into a victory in the SC Primary.

And actually they did mention Ron Paul's name during the aftershow. They said they "invited" Ron but "he had another event to attend" You can take that as you want. Whatever the real reason I wish he would have shown up and rubbed it in the Network's face when the text poll finished.

[slidingsky]

You people love your freedom!

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[Helghast]

it means what it means.
Don't get defensive cause YOU took it out of context.

[steve shadows]

hey guys let's get back on topic, this thread has been too fucking kickass to screw it up now... :bigok:

[bboyt3nsk]

Heres RAYNE's link fixed

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=qV6qAGigGYY&rel=1

.......VERRRRY interesting. My OPINION on the Faux deal is they arent covering him is because their scared. everyone is scared that hell win. The "government" has something going right now, and they like all the power and its getting out of control. Lets be smart here. This is a great thread by the way. Its good to see everyones opinion UNCENSORED!

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Lets not let it get that far.

[fromxtor]

I knew Ron Paul was going to win the debate, and was upset they interviewed the "more popular" candidates instead of RP. Unfortunatly I missed the debate itself, and loved all the nice replays of assahtas like Mitt Romney attacking everyone instead of being adult about it and actng like a true presidential candidate.

[steve shadows]

check this out

this is in FEB of 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

[Helghast]

This is too much Ron Paul.

What about the other candidates?
PEOPLE CHIME IN.

Tell me why you'd vote for someone else.
Get a real, healthy, debate going on here.

Don't be afraid, no one smart should shut you down.

[steve shadows]

sure show me if there are any other candidates addressing the recession?

[Helghast]

That's not my point.
My point was, why wouldn't EVERYONE vote for Dr. Paul.

I wanna hear the voice of the OTHER people.

[steve shadows]

I mean doesnt it raise eyebrows that the people who control the media are going far out of their way to assasinate his character?

BTW they are going to do a re-count in New Hampshire...because one poll worker was "tierd" and forgot to record Ron Pauls total votes on accident.

what the fuck:confused:

[skylindrftr]

I mean doesnt it raise eyebrows that the people who control the media are going far out of their way to assasinate his character?

BTW they are going to do a re-count in New Hampshire...because one poll worker was "tierd" and forgot to record Ron Pauls total votes on accident.

what the fuck:confused:

where did you find this out?

[SimpleSexy180]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=seuL1ZeWHSU

[Grendel]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=seuL1ZeWHSU

He handled that question well :) That guy asking the question seemed like a smug chode...

[SimpleSexy180]

corporate business doesnt want ron paul as president.

they are scared.

[steve shadows]

haha I love that

"do you have any (meaningless word) sir?"

what exactly does electability mean? Like how HOT you are and if you talk like MAN!!! or flex like a WWE wrestler?

such dumbed down bullshit.

everyone is on dope (legal or illegal) and everyone is subdued. WAKE up.

Buyers remorse on Republican and Dem party over here.

[Helghast]

Power of Nightmare. (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22power+of+nightmares%22&hl=en)

Watch those.

it's a BBC documentary on how POLITICIANS USE THE FEAR OF TERRORISM for their benefits.

WARNING: May make your head explode from the sheer truth.


BTW, way to Neg me dooouche. Mr. I-can't-leave-my-name-because-I'm-scared-of-a-person-from-the-interwhack.


One more..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GzRWSof8uQ

Guess who predicted the Recession of '87 in '83?

[steve shadows]

^ ok I have A LOT of stuff to say about that movie and how misleading it is, especially regarding Zawahiri and the implication that somehow what the Muslim Brotherhood did was "nobel" and that the islamic revolution in Iran was "progressive" or constructive in any way"

The video is very one sided and very insane frankly.

Pragmatism is not a threat.

mis-guidied means to meaning the utilitarian ends, is what I am more worried about.


either way

fantasy or not.

The fact that FEAR is being used for power is undeniable.

I can't tell you how many of my mil friend want Ron Paul, like want him so bad that it's scary. No one wants to fight for nothing anymroe. They want to fight for freedom.

What happened to real freedom...

[98s14inaz]

Politics and Religion shouldn't mix anyways.

who gives a fuck if he doesn't believe in evolution, his foreign policies and economic stance more than makes up for it.

Also, he's not a goddamn flip flopper.
and doesn't cry.
and doesn't say 9/11 every time he gets.


All good reasons to vote for the man. He has my vote if he survives the mudslinging long enough to be the Rep presidential candidate.

[Unholy S14]

fox news has always sucked

[S14DB]

Sure talks a nice game but what has he done? What bills has he passed? All I see is talk.

[skylindrftr]

Sure talks a nice game but what has he done? What bills has he passed? All I see is talk.

well if you go to his wikipedia page i am sure you would see a nice organized list of things he has accomplished =)

[steve shadows]

Sure talks a nice game but what has he done? What bills has he passed? All I see is talk.

He's a proponent of small government.

His honestly is shown through his attempt to never add or pass anything.

If you studied American politics for any time in order to push a bill to success you usually need lobbyist or small interest support which usually means pork which usually means bigger government or shady wording to supplemenet those interests.

So by definition the man practicies what he preaches.

duh

[drifter808]

i read all the posts and my vote still stands.....Ron Paul.

^hey Steve, you ever heard of the bohemian grove?? If not youtube it. Pretty weird stuff

[steve shadows]

Conspiracy theories will not explain our problems.

Simple economic history and research will reveal the issue we should be concerned about.

[S14DB]

well if you go to his wikipedia page i am sure you would see a nice organized list of things he has accomplished =)
I see he voted on a bunch of shit. but everyone in congress does. I don't see him actually doing anything.
He's a proponent of small government.

His honestly is shown through his attempt to never add or pass anything.

If you studied American politics for any time in order to push a bill to success you usually need lobbyist or small interest support which usually means pork which usually means bigger government or shady wording to supplemenet those interests.

So by definition the man practicies what he preaches.

duh

So, doing nothing accomplishes something? Sounds like a bunch of hot air with no action to back it up. I'd rather take ANYONE but a big spin campaign.

[98s14inaz]

I see he voted on a bunch of shit. but everyone in congress does. I don't see him actually doing anything.


So, doing nothing accomplishes something? Sounds like a bunch of hot air with no action to back it up. I'd rather take ANYONE but a big spin campaign.

Quality not quantity my friend. I'd prefer a small amount of well thought out bills going through with out all the lobbying and pork. At least RP isn't a sell out like the whole of Washington. They have prostituted themselves to the corporations and the fed. Now "we" the middle class, are stuck with the bill. Well done big government. The big government got laid and we got fucked:nono:

[Edgar]

I really don't like Politics or anything like this but whoever is really down to make economy better, get out of fucking war, and pass some laws that actually benefit shit then they get my vote.

Ill read this thread later and see what some people really have to say.

[steve shadows]

So, doing nothing accomplishes something? Sounds like a bunch of hot air with no action to back it up. I'd rather take ANYONE but a big spin campaign.

He's the only one in congress with these types of views who is openly persuing change. A single congressmen cannot push a government spending cut bill through. It is almost impossible. Again do some study of American politics before you try a flimsy bashing of the guy. He really does practice what he preaches, in fact is ground braking how honest and consistant he is.

+ If you compare him to Romney, McCain or Hillary who have all supported tax increases, open borders and prolonging the war, it's hands down win on issues.

[Nachtmensch]

i just read through this whole thread, watched every video, and i am GLAD that many other people see the light that is Ron Paul.

i have supported him since middle of last year when i learned who he is and what he stands for. i honestly hope he wins the primary, and i will vote for him to do so. (and being in IL, our electoral college shit is more than a lot of states)

a lot of people seem to be voting on certain candidates because they are not well educated about the others. go ahead, read up, watch videos, and determine who is best.

i HATE the people who just vote for someone just because. that is complete bullshit (like the guy on page 1? 2?) you have the RIGHT to vote. USE that to change the government to how you see it.

[atom]

He's the only one in congress with these types of views who is openly persuing change. A single congressmen cannot push a government spending cut bill through. It is almost impossible. Again do some study of American politics before you try a flimsy bashing of the guy. He really does practice what he preaches, in fact is ground braking how honest and consistant he is.

+ If you compare him to Romney, McCain or Hillary who have all supported tax increases, open borders and prolonging the war, it's hands down win on issues.

Neither can the president alone push anything through. The simple fact is if he's not willing to play ball in the current political climate then he will be nothing more than a lame duck. And playing ball means compromise.

[steve shadows]

That’s an anemic response.

I think Ron Paul would be open to any kind of compromise rendered that might help roll back the snowball effect that big government expansion is continuing to create.

Every other candidate will simply "play ball" by someone else's rules that have a very sickly and national-identity ending agenda.

And even if they were to stop every single measure or executive order he attempted to enact to return our civil liberties etc, do you not think that his presence or someone like him would spark interest once again in American ingenuity, freedom and a re-reading of the constitution.

It's really insane to just say that since he will not be allowed by the system to effect any change we should vote in someone who will make our lives worse.

Obviously we need to turn off the Britney spears Fox report and E channel, get off our asses and change our god damned country before its too late.

[atom]

That’s an anemic response.

I think Ron Paul would be open to any kind of compromise rendered that might help roll back the snowball effect that big government expansion is continuing to create.



So you keep saying Ron Paul is steadfast in his convictions yet he's willing to compromise. Which is it?

Every other candidate will simply "play ball" by someone else's rules that have a very sickly and national-identity ending agenda.

And even if they were to stop every single measure or executive order he attempted to enact to return our civil liberties etc, do you not think that his presence or someone like him would spark interest once again in American ingenuity, freedom and a re-reading of the constitution.

The way our country is going no i don't think we can have a lame duck for four years.

It's really insane to just say that since he will not be allowed by the system to effect any change we should vote in someone who will make our lives worse.

Obviously we need to turn off the Britney spears Fox report and E channel, get off our asses and change our god damned country before its too late.

It's not that he can't change anything, it's that he hasn't shown how. Every other candidate has unveiled some kind of economic stimulus package, health care plan, etc. etc.

Maybe the news channels choose not to cover him. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places on the internet. But I can't find the same for Ron Paul. Until I do, he's a man with a destination but no clear path to get us there. I'm too jaded to have that much faith in any politician.

[steve shadows]

So you keep saying Ron Paul is steadfast in his convictions yet he's willing to compromise. Which is it?



The way our country is going no i don't think we can have a lame duck for four years.



It's not that he can't change anything, it's that he hasn't shown how. Every other candidate has unveiled some kind of economic stimulus package, health care plan, etc. etc.

Maybe the news channels choose not to cover him. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places on the internet. But I can't find the same for Ron Paul. Until I do, he's a man with a destination but no clear path to get us there. I'm too jaded to have that much faith in any politician.


Being able to make compromises to allow for a slow roll-back of the super-over inflation of government spending is just being realistic in his unchanging convictions; don't twist my intentions and words

None of the candidates have even espoused specific details on their non-existent course.

If you have lost all faith in politicians I understand, but it’s not often you have someone like this who has voted the same his entire political careers and not changed even one of his major sentiments or following of traditional fiscal conservative platform.

You have to pick someone to be a leader in this attempt to bring some reforms to government spending; it will have to be a politician? I mean what else would it be? You basically are saying that the Republic-Democratic system in the US is a failure if we cannot accurately be represented in our intentions and needs as citizens by our government.

It's not that he can't change anything, it's that he hasn't shown how. Every other candidate has unveiled some kind of economic stimulus package, health care plan, etc. etc.
And they all involved larger government more spending and larger government program. Not to mention they are extremely vague and even the tax reforms by the lead candidates relate to solidifying corporate tax cuts and other anemic attempts to stimulate the economy by adjusting the beuracratic mess not making it more efficent.

We cannot solve our problems by begging government to spend more money and invent new programs (like public health care) when the economy is on the verge of collapse, we are in a recession, the dollar is worth less than every other globally public traded currency and we are trying to run a global exhaustive massive war campaign against an Idea (terror). I mean does this make sense or am I knocking on dull wood.

Go check out some of the GAO's reports on our economic outlook. I posted a graph a couple pages back that is in blocks I know but it does illustrate the problems.

FOR EXAMPLE

Republicans have illuded to bailing out country-wide-BofA in case their stock goes to 0. This involves adjusting interest rates to stimulate a currency that is being bet against in the public currency trading market, that is worth nothing and that is over inflating.

The candidates who have presented "packages and answers" have just offered punch-lines and hollow statements that are impossible without pushing the country into total bankruptcy. I don't even see how even if the FED was on board enough adjustment now could help the dollars value. It might stabilize, but in relation to other foreign currencies it will still be going down in value, especially when publicly traded.


0h and one more thing. What makes you think the other candidates in the field besides Ron Paul have any sort of comprehensive plan they will actually FOLLOW. As a self professed republican (classical not neo) I don't trust my party anymore. After Bush ran on a platform of limited government, less spending and cutting programs the guy did th opposite. Democrats by party-nature will do the opposite, Americans are between a rock and a hard place. At least educated ones. Uneducated ones still think that next time they go to the groccery store islamo-facist extremist starving poor insane muslims will try to rape them and kill their families...meanwhile uncle sam rapes their pocket book.

[skylindrftr]

slightly off topic side note..... people were walking through the cal poly campus today with big ass ron paul revolution banners, had to give them the ol 2 thumbs up =)

[kognition]

I like Ron Paul. HillBill scares the hell outta me. And any other candidate that thinks China trade is good for the economy, or thinks borders is a book store, or a North American Union would get the banannas to Toronto quicker. Godamn chain stores across america pushing down the US wage and pumping in more chinese crap. It's CRAP! Now i have to buy godamn lead test kits and go thru the house looking for lead paint before the Baby comes. Thanks WTO for the good lookin out! Morons. :rant2:

[ronmcdon]

Haha, loved that post where Ron Paul was confronting Bernanke about lowering interest rates! It was almost like RP was accusing Bernanke of bieng a theif! I will most certainly agree with RP on that one. To the Fed's credit, I much prefer Alan Greenspan's more conservative approach, and I agree with his decisions back in the Clinton era. I think Greenspan would have most likely increased rates to hinder inflation a long time ago, under the same cirmcumstances. I dont have too much faith in Bernanke. :thumbdown:

[drift-it]

I'm so angry at these fucking news stations that never mention him in any positive way only negative.

Lets face it Ron Paul is america's last hope.

[kognition]

I think you might be right on that one. Because things are so F'd up here in the states with the dollar, that i have been out in the UK trying to get some oem business with these small exotic car firms. The dollar just barely edged back up above the Canadian dollar recently. All i can say is thank God for the internet, so i can search for business outside the states.

I'm so angry at these fucking news stations that never mention him in any positive way only negative.

Lets face it Ron Paul is america's last hope.

[steve shadows]

I don't really know what to do with Romney and Obaman or Hil being poised for the win.

I am really anti- Obamas big government liberal spending policies. So I like the idea of any republican being in power during an economic recession. But knowing how fucked the currency is right now Im not sure anyone will be able to fix it (leading candidates that is).

None of them attempt to address the root.

Im glad there are some of you out there who pay attention and care. Gives me hope for our generation.

[kognition]

The biggest thing i am seeing right now locally is forclosures out here where the "sand buggy" families dropped 50K on toys and haulers with a 2nd mortgage. And their adjustable sub prime mortgage went up. :-/ I know someone that just bought such a foreclosure with this scenario.

I don't really know what to do with Romney and Obaman or Hil being poised for the win.

I am really anti- Obamas big government liberal spending policies. So I like the idea of any republican being in power during an economic recession. But knowing how fucked the currency is right now Im not sure anyone will be able to fix it (leading candidates that is).

None of them attempt to address the root.

Im glad there are some of you out there who pay attention and care. Gives me hope for our generation.

[Rob's S14]

I just read through this whole thread and thought it kind of odd that nobody had mention John Edwards. Just curious as to what you guys think of him. I also notice that he isn't getting much media attention either.

Also, just curious if anybody watches Real Time on HBO. They were talking about how republicans choose who they want to run for president as basically "it's their turn" and they think that McCain is that guy this year. Not necessarily that he'll win, but it's his turn to run.

[steve shadows]

I just read through this whole thread and thought it kind of odd that nobody had mention John Edwards. Just curious as to what you guys think of him. I also notice that he isn't getting much media attention either.

Also, just curious if anybody watches Real Time on HBO. They were talking about how republicans choose who they want to run for president as basically "it's their turn" and they think that McCain is that guy this year. Not necessarily that he'll win, but it's his turn to run.

He's onboard with big govenment spending, public everything ( in terms of programs) and in turn will not help with anything regarding the collapse of the domestic economy or dollar. + Him running with Kerry (an anemic cookie cutter demoractic shoe in) doesnt really bode well for being for "change"

[Rob's S14]

I thought Kerry was behind Obama, unless you mean from when he ran with Kerry 4 years ago.

What do you think about the republican thing though? It does kinda make sense.

[PoorMans180SX]

lol nah I mean Ive never even heard him say anything about evolution to be honest....Im just responding to BustedS13s post which is the first Ive heard of this matter. I like some of his ideas a lot, I do find it somewhat ridiculous that any one in the year 2007 with all the advances in sciences and genetics could say they were unsure about evolution.....not enough evidence to prove evolution? Are you shitting me? How much more evidence do you need? Show me one shred of evidence pointing towards intelligent design or whatever....I understand that if you want to be elected in this country you have to have personal faith of some type (which is stupid anyway) so by not taking a stance one way or another you dont alienate any potential voters....but seriously I call bullshit on anyone who says they are unsure about evolution or that "there is not enough proof" give me a fucking break

Let me rant a second:

Darwin's theory of macro evolution is believed to be, by the majority of scientists, false. AKA disproved. We didn't evolve from apes and birds didn't evolve from dinosaurs. Get over it.
Micro-evolution has pretty much been proven through various research. Look it up.

Back on topic though, Ron Paul get's my vote. Why? Because even if he can't/doesn't deliver everything he says he will, I want to see that kind of a man/thinker in office.

[steve shadows]

I thought Kerry was behind Obama, unless you mean from when he ran with Kerry 4 years ago.

What do you think about the republican thing though? It does kinda make sense.

I honestly can't say what I will do.

I hate the idea of a democrat in Washington, but I really don't think extending the war will help our economy or national security interests either.

Its a catch 22.

I typically vote republican though, if at least stuck in this paradigm, I would like an economy that benefits the hard working, not the ones who self-create themselves into hard times.

[fishhouse]

i voted ron paul in the michigan primary. only dude that doesnt seam full of shit, hes been consistant with his views for years and hes always been right, especially the war.

i also agree about old people, they literally vote for old style crap and it messes everything up. edwards is getting old people votes because hes pretty. when i voted i was the only one there under 35. 2/3s were over 65. NOT GOOD. but cant take their right to vote away just wish theyd think about our future and less about what they think would be nice in 1958

[Rob's S14]

I definately agree with you on that. I actually just got my sample ballot in the mail so I'll be reading up on that too.

[drift-it]

i voted ron paul in the michigan primary. only dude that doesnt seam full of shit, hes been consistant with his views for years and hes always been right, especially the war.

i also agree about old people, they literally vote for old style crap and it messes everything up. edwards is getting old people votes because hes pretty. when i voted i was the only one there under 35. 2/3s were over 65. NOT GOOD. but cant take their right to vote away just wish theyd think about our future and less about what they think would be nice in 1958


that's a very good point, but old people are stubborn. maybe we can trick them into voting for Ron Paul. "If you vote for Ron Paul you get free laxitives for a year!"

[kognition]

I was LMAO when Hillary said in Michigan, "We need to retrain workers". To do what exactly? Greet customers as they walk into the wallmart? They let big corps take american jobs to India, and now the US dollar is no longer acceptable currency in India. Does anybody see this $hit playing down in the news? Look what the big three has done to Michigan! The highest unemployment rate in the country. :-/

i voted ron paul in the michigan primary. only dude that doesnt seam full of shit, hes been consistant with his views for years and hes always been right, especially the war.

i also agree about old people, they literally vote for old style crap and it messes everything up. edwards is getting old people votes because hes pretty. when i voted i was the only one there under 35. 2/3s were over 65. NOT GOOD. but cant take their right to vote away just wish theyd think about our future and less about what they think would be nice in 1958

[fishhouse]

I was LMAO when Hillary said in Michigan, "We need to retrain workers". To do what exactly? Greet customers as they walk into the wallmart? They let big corps take american jobs to India, and now the US dollar is no longer acceptable currency in India. Does anybody see this playing down in the news? Look what the big three has done to Michigan! The highest unemployment rate in the country. :-/
the Big 3 is fighting an uphill battle, the government allows foreign cars to be cheaper than they should be, and they have to battle corrupt union leaders.

not saying they didnt drop the ball on innovation and quality 20 or so years ago but theyre doing what they can and ford GM and Chrysler are getting back into the game with alot of new models and technologies (ford is going to be running all direct injection turbo motors in a couple years supposedly)

but if youve ever been to michigan EVERYONE works for the big 3, its just about the only jobs you can get in michigan with good pay and great benefits. very few people take a job at the big 3 for granted anymore, if you get a job there youre pretty much set but its tough, michigan is FUCKED, we havent had a good governor in years and the current one is making everything WAY worse.

michigan is a blue collar state, alway has been. retrained my ass, michigan probably has the best industrial workforce in the country and Granholm is trying to bring in more super stores and high tech companies to create jobs for people that dont exist. we need more industry!

ok i think i went way off track and stopped making sense but whatever. michigan sucks.

[kognition]

Amazing that Michigan has a Dem Governor. It would seen like a more conservative state. I think the big three can make a comeback, but alot of the nuts and bolts will be made in China in order to compete. I was stripping down a Scion a couple months ago, and several parts i saw in the doors were stamped made in China. I think the big three dropped the ball because they were banking on brand loyalty too much. Now you can watch a "macho meat eater" truck commercial by Toyota or Nissan remeniscent of the Ford and GM commercials. They are just taking those customers away in masses. Better cars and better prices. It was no different back in the 70's when the first Japanese television set arrived in the states. US manufacturers balked at it. Same with the Kodak camera. Relying too much on brand loyalty alone is fail on a grand scale.

the Big 3 is fighting an uphill battle, the government allows foreign cars to be cheaper than they should be, and they have to battle corrupt union leaders.

not saying they didnt drop the ball on innovation and quality 20 or so years ago but theyre doing what they can and ford GM and Chrysler are getting back into the game with alot of new models and technologies (ford is going to be running all direct injection turbo motors in a couple years supposedly)

but if youve ever been to michigan EVERYONE works for the big 3, its just about the only jobs you can get in michigan with good pay and great benefits. very few people take a job at the big 3 for granted anymore, if you get a job there youre pretty much set but its tough, michigan is FUCKED, we havent had a good governor in years and the current one is making everything WAY worse.

michigan is a blue collar state, alway has been. retrained my ass, michigan probably has the best industrial workforce in the country and Granholm is trying to bring in more super stores and high tech companies to create jobs for people that dont exist. we need more industry!

ok i think i went way off track and stopped making sense but whatever. michigan sucks.

[kingkilburn]

Being from the central valley of California I would like to find out what the candidates think of filling up the most fertile and most producing land in the world with houses.
They are cutting out the farms(largest industry in cali, yes it makes more money than hollywood) and replacing them with cookie cutter houses and retail jobs. Some people would wonder what that has to do with them but think about where your food comes from, there is a good chance it was grown within four hours of me.
The local government sees this housing growth as a way to make money but I want to see a candidate who is willing to look at its affect on the rest of the country. You don't want your food to be from China too do you?

[kognition]

Hopefully the real estate bust will curb that. For a short while anyway. :-/

Being from the central valley of California I would like to find out what the candidates think of filling up the most fertile and most producing land in the world with houses.
They are cutting out the farms(largest industry in cali, yes it makes more money than hollywood) and replacing them with cookie cutter houses and retail jobs. Some people would wonder what that has to do with them but think about where your food comes from, there is a good chance it was grown within four hours of me.
The local government sees this housing growth as a way to make money but I want to see a candidate who is willing to look at its affect on the rest of the country. You don't want your food to be from China too do you?

[kaotic]

BYAH! RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT!
ANARCHY!

BYAH!

Romney '08
k thanks

[steve shadows]

anarchy is when our economy collapses dips.....

not when someone eliminates the fed reserves manipulation of the economy...

you do know that when they lower interest rates inflation increases, even though the prescribed answer to inflation is lowering interest rates...bu...i know i know it's tarded, so are a lot of people

Putin 08'

[kaotic]

BYAH! ELIMINATE TAXES!

I couldn't get past the first page of this BS..

If we had no taxes.. that would inturn create.. NO GOVERNMENT.. Our taxes is what makes our country run, day to day, week to week.. Who needs public works? Or the Police? Or the Army? pssh, we dont.. right? Paul '08!

"Putin '08" ..youre a joke

[steve shadows]

hey genius, no income tax does not mean no taxes, plus there is still state income tax, Ron Paul is talking about FEDERAL income tax.

What makes this country run day to day is our economy and our economic superiority, that's how we got to the powerful position we are in today, not government spending of income tax dollars.

States would have the right to have any sort of taxes they wanted, plus the federal government already takes a percentage of taxes from states.

We would still easily have the military, in fact under his plan that is the only thing that would never be removed from Federal governmnets general welfare clause abilities.

Do you know what the general welfare clause is? and the mis-interpreted precedent it set in turn of the 19th century supreme court cases? the same cases and lobbyists bolstered by the current Fed's supporters back then?

A natioanl percentage sales tax as well as cutting of other retarded parasitic government programs would allow for us to maintain our budget from national DEFENSE (not empire armies) technological advancements and other departments taht are absolutely nessicary.

The IRS, Department of Energy, Department of Education and others could all easily be rolled into some much smaller more efficent arms of government that don't cost billons of dollars a year to operate and basically accomplish nothing but fuck up what they oversee.

oh and on the topic of Putin for president...

I was referring to this

http://putinforpresident.typepad.com/

it's a joke

[fishhouse]

BYAH! ELIMINATE TAXES!

I couldn't get past the first page of this BS..

If we had no taxes.. that would inturn create.. NO GOVERNMENT.. Our taxes is what makes our country run, day to day, week to week.. Who needs public works? Or the Police? Or the Army? pssh, we dont.. right? Paul '08!

"Putin '08" ..youre a joke

hs talking about federal income tax, not all taxes. your eliterally being taxed to take a shit (water)

there are plenty of taxes. i live in the stte with more taxes than any other and the worst employment rate, i know about taxes lol. fuel taxes, luxury taxes, sales taxes, tobacco taxes, liqour taxes, property taxes, i thinkt he only thing thats not taxed is staple foods.

if it were just income taxes i had to pay id be fuckin rich.

[Helghast]

BYAH! ELIMINATE TAXES!

I couldn't get past the first page of this BS..

If we had no taxes.. that would inturn create.. NO GOVERNMENT.. Our taxes is what makes our country run, day to day, week to week.. Who needs public works? Or the Police? Or the Army? pssh, we dont.. right? Paul '08!

"Putin '08" ..youre a joke

Roh Roh, someone doesn't know the difference between all the taxes.

Federal Income tax is a damn joke.

You know who didn't file for theirs?
Wesley Snipes.
Now he's fighting it in court.

Google it.

He's part of the Anti-Tax movement.

..are you more bad ass than WESLEY SNIPES?!

[kaotic]

Did you know that not every state has a state income tax?

Lets sum it up.. Ron Paul will NOT get the republican party nomination. Ron Paul will have to run as an independent. Ron Paul does not, and will not have enough money to run a successful campain. Ron Paul will NOT become our next president.
Ron Paul WILL, however, go back to washington and do what hes done from the start.. NOTHING (becuase apprently thats what hes known for doing according to what ive read*this thread*)

*waits for more hot air, and spin*

[kaotic]

Roh Roh, someone doesn't know the difference between all the taxes.

Federal Income tax is a damn joke.

You know who didn't file for theirs?
Wesley Snipes.
Now he's fighting it in court.

Google it.

He's part of the Anti-Tax movement.

..are you more bad ass than WESLEY SNIPES?!

I do know the difference between.. "the taxes"
If its such a joke, then why dont you stop paying it too.. Just tell the judge that you thought it was a joke, im sure he/she would understand

Rut Roh.... Im sorry, I read what was wrote on the first page... Also something along the lines of selling off alaska?

Wesley Snipes and his lazy eye can rot in federal prison, as far as I care.

[steve shadows]

Did you know that not every state has a state income tax?



haha so?

thats each state prerogative.

read the constitution.

I do know the difference between.. "the taxes"
If its such a joke, then why dont you stop paying it too.. Just tell the judge that you thought it was a joke, im sure he/she would understand



Some people have, some people have hired constitutional law experts and attorneys to argue cases as federal courts around the country, It has always been a hot issue. Once the supreme court set's precedent (which is just opinion) on specific constitutional issues like the general welfare clause, and the government backs it up with an armed police force, investigators and an entire bureaucratic organization it is hard for joe shmo to fight the army of lawyers, big banking buddies and lobbyists on the governments side.

capeash?

How is any of this spin? these are just facts?

Have you completed a 4 year university? Taken constitutional legal courses? Do you have a JD or a masters degree, or have you simply done some extensive reading or research on the technicalities of the issues I present?

I am just stating facts.

[azn_romeox]

I don't take Ron Paul serious, same reason why most of the media doesn't either He was a third party candidate who realized he needed to be in a majority to have any decent change of getting numbers but fail to know. His proposals are outlandish. Look at the caucus's for real polling, not online polls where he has a huge demographic (good campaign through the internet)

[steve shadows]

my point is, continued debt and the american union as well as collapse of our dollar + possible depression are not outlandish?

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

You call his ideas outlandish, and I say to you what is more outlandish? money that is worthless? invading every country that is not democratic? A department of education that has crippled our education system in the country?

I mean have you guys been watching the economy since Ron Paul address Bernake in Feb of 2007?

Have you been watching the dollar?

I mean come on? no one in the the Republican party is acting like a republican anymore.

The Republican party shifted to a big government policy when the followers of Leo Strauss moved from the democratic party to the republican party.

do some more research, stop trying to find any minute detail to be-little the guy.

[kaotic]

He's a proponent of small government.

His honestly is shown through his attempt to never add or pass anything.

If you studied American politics for any time in order to push a bill to success you usually need lobbyist or small interest support which usually means pork which usually means bigger government or shady wording to supplemenet those interests.

So by definition the man practicies what he preaches.

duh

He's the only one in congress with these types of views who is openly persuing change. A single congressmen cannot push a government spending cut bill through. It is almost impossible. Again do some study of American politics before you try a flimsy bashing of the guy. He really does practice what he preaches, in fact is ground braking how honest and consistant he is.

+ If you compare him to Romney, McCain or Hillary who have all supported tax increases, open borders and prolonging the war, it's hands down win on issues.

That’s an anemic response.

I think Ron Paul would be open to any kind of compromise rendered that might help roll back the snowball effect that big government expansion is continuing to create.

Every other candidate will simply "play ball" by someone else's rules that have a very sickly and national-identity ending agenda.

And even if they were to stop every single measure or executive order he attempted to enact to return our civil liberties etc, do you not think that his presence or someone like him would spark interest once again in American ingenuity, freedom and a re-reading of the constitution.

It's really insane to just say that since he will not be allowed by the system to effect any change we should vote in someone who will make our lives worse.

Obviously we need to turn off the Britney spears Fox report and E channel, get off our asses and change our god damned country before its too late.

Plenty of Hot Air/Spin there.. And thats just the last page

You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre rather liberal.

I wish I never clicked this thread..

My education has nothing to do with the fact that Ron Paul will never sit behind the desk in the oval office. Thats what im saying..

Romney '08

[kaotic]

Desperate times call for desperate measures.


Well, youre right.. Paul for President is rather... desperate

Along with this thread, it all seems like a desperate tirade of a supporter of a desperate campaign

[steve shadows]

so you didn’t answer any of my questions or even attempt to tackle the facts I presented.

tell me sir, what IS a republican then?

I thought a Republican cut spending, reduced taxes for all classes and was pr-economic, anti-bureaucracy.

only in the last 35 years have republicans started to shift away from that.

Your clearly mis-guided as are a of Social-democrats (I mean republicans) like Giuliani and half of the base.

A lot of these people began there careers as democrats from the south or even in washington and migrated to the republican party during the civil rights movement. They also started slowly robbing the party of it's record on spend-thrift ness, realist foreign policy and dynamic application of tax cuts to stimulate the sustinence of the middle class.

even Rush Limbaugh had Newt Gingrich on and they were both hollering about how none of the candidates running truly present a real Regan approach

RUSH FUCKING LIMBAUGH was saying this.

He even suggested that there was no good candidate in the field, and for the most part I agree with him. I feel like I have NO ONE to vote for as a Republican. Paul is a wild card Republican, but he is still a republican.

You think I am liberal? A liberal in today’s language means a socialist and social liberal, not a fiscal libertarian.

just use a dictionary

[kognition]

In California anyway, a recent example of complete state governmental failure is seen in the new Arnold ads about Indian Gaming Revenue. Where they tout it as a good thing that we further tax the reservation casinos for money to keep California afloat. Here is my question, wasn't the lottery supposed to fix that? pencils and crayons fer kids blah blah. It's beyond that now. If the Lottery
stopped running, this state would be in complete financial turmoil. Pathetic. This is what Cali gets for not dealing with things like immigration issues and wage issues.

[articdragon192]

Plenty of Hot Air/Spin there.. And thats just the last page

You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre rather liberal.

I wish I never clicked this thread..

My education has nothing to do with the fact that Ron Paul will never sit behind the desk in the oval office. Thats what im saying..

Romney '08

Education has everything to do with it. It shows whether you understand what has happened in the past due to actions caused by previous people in power. And actually, he's very conservative. Small government has always been a conservative point of view. It was what our country was founded on. Small government and us keeping to ourselves. Hell, our founding fathers said to keep out of international affairs because it would only lead to trouble. And it has. Who said the United States of America was going to be the world police.

[S14DB]

http://watchingthewatchers.org/news/1352/attracts-racists-ron-paul
http://lonestartimes.com/2007/10/25/rpb1/

[fromxtor]

Romney will not be the next president, his results in each states primaries shows that. Looks like you want Romney to be the next president, and we likewise would like to see Dr. Paul in office. So w/ that being said no one made you click on this thread, so please see your way out.

[steve shadows]

http://watchingthewatchers.org/news/1352/attracts-racists-ron-paul
http://lonestartimes.com/2007/10/25/rpb1/


what the fuck is your point?

The chinease government gave Bill Clinton shit tones of money and then remeber whitewater?

there have always been assholes who donate to everyone's campaigns.

This is a very hit and run childish way to try to contribute to the thread.

You think the mainstream department heads with interests in Wall street would want to dig up every negative article on who took 10 dollars from johnny butt fuck racist?

Those articles are clearly character assination based.

Don't you ever stop and wonder why so many at the top are so afraid and angered by this guy?

The people with money have done almost everything they can since the 1980s to talk shit on him. And he still has a perfect voting record according to his beliefs?

:Owned:

If you think as the adds in your links profess, a safer stronger American relys in overextension, bankrupcy and economic debt to other nations, I suggest you join the Army immidiately for deployment to the gulf, donate your house for the better good to imminent domain for the international highway to connect north america and begin volunteering more of your wages for the common good.

Republicans sound more like communists, and so do corporatists at the top if you really examine (the vocabulary).


How about a president who openly has familiy involved in Polygamy? that doesnt concern you? just a 500 dollar donation (which was probably staged) to Paul?

I mean we can compare dirt all day.

[kognition]

There is so much dirt out there on every candidate, real and fabricated, that it is almost impossible for the average voter to filter thru it. So i agree that going by a candidates voting record is the only thing i can reliably go by. Because the news is so full of crap. :jerkit:

[McRussellPants]

I agree with just about everything Steve has posted.

Its too bad Ron Paul isn't gonna go anywhere, but at least he's putting his ideas out there.

Did anyone read the racism thing? it explains why racists like him and its not because of his views on race. Most people will see Ron Paul and Racist in the same sentence and make assumptions though.

[Rob's S14]

As far as whitewater goes, what about it. The Clinton's were never found guilty of anything in the Starr report or in the investigation by Congress. It seems like they were just dragging his name through the mud.

Just out of curiosity Steve, who did you think was the right candidate in 2000 and 2004?

[kognition]

Back in 93' when the Jennifer Flowers scandal was going on (Bill's Mistress)
Flowers recorded all her phone conversations with Bill and eventually made them available for purchase. Bill was trying to keep it under wraps because he was running for office. Clinton is a dirtbag ego maniac. I listened to him on those tapes. What a POS.

As far as whitewater goes, what about it. The Clinton's were never found guilty of anything in the Starr report or in the investigation by Congress. It seems like they were just dragging his name through the mud.

Just out of curiosity Steve, who did you think was the right candidate in 2000 and 2004?

[kognition]

Any American believing in the right to bear arms (2nd Amendment) could vote for Paul, including the less savory citizens among us. Neo nazi's won't find a friend in Hillary :keke: that's for damn sure. I would't count Ron Paul out. He spanked Thomson and Rudy in Michigan primaries. Those are higher profile politicians than Paul. He spanked them, and that tells me that people in Michigan are paying attention to what is going on. If life is bad now in Michigan, way and quality of life... they are serious about who is going to lead this country into the future. Doesn't it just suck that when i see Bush get in front of a mic, i just change it over to Speed TV or Sci Fi channel?
Any man that can be a successful Doctor, and Congressman has my respect.


I agree with just about everything Steve has posted.

Its too bad Ron Paul isn't gonna go anywhere, but at least he's putting his ideas out there.

Did anyone read the racism thing? it explains why racists like him and its not because of his views on race. Most people will see Ron Paul and Racist in the same sentence and make assumptions though.

[kaotic]

Steve, everything youve said seems to be either redundant or rhetorical... Your'e an obvious blow-hard..
Please read what I wrote.. I said:
You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre rather liberal.
NOT
You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre a liberal.
see a difference? Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong-suit

fromxtor - What are you talking about? Hes won two states already, and has come in a close second in two others (granted 2nd does little help, like 2-5 delegates?).. If you add up the amount of votes for each candidates from each of the states caucus', he has more total votes than any other candidate.. as a matter of fact

Since you have such a need to know my education level, I attend a college part-time towards a Auto CAD certification.

[steve shadows]

As far as whitewater goes, what about it. The Clinton's were never found guilty of anything in the Starr report or in the investigation by Congress. It seems like they were just dragging his name through the mud.

Just out of curiosity Steve, who did you think was the right candidate in 2000 and 2004?

I voted for Bush in 2000. He ran on a fiscal conservative platform.

In 04 I cant say with good confidence I supported anyone.

your right about the mud dragging, but thats exactly the parallel I am drawing, character assassination on a grand scale

Steve, everything youve said seems to be either redundant or rhetorical... Your'e an obvious blow-hard..
Please read what I wrote.. I said:
You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre rather liberal.
NOT
You call yourself a republican? From what I can see, youre a liberal.
see a difference? Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong-suit


Thats your rebuttal? ok seems like analytical thinking isint your strong-suit.


Rather Liberal in 1600's sort of liberalism. If so thanks big compliment.

[kaotic]

Thats your rebuttal? ok seems like analytical thinking isint your strong-suit.


Rather Liberal in 1600's sort of liberalism. If so thanks big compliment.

Um, no.. it was my response. Im not debating here. You are. :goyou:
See.. thats the great thing about perspective.

No. As in a "left-winger"

[kaotic]

"Wow You didn't even try to debate. Lame." -Cream Puff that left my last negative rep

I did, where I could.

Better responce than Pauls.. "I didn't hear you, its too loud in here" *blank lost look
Cream Puff.

[steve shadows]

I did, where I could.



so you basically admit your folding on the debate? :mepoke:

[steve shadows]

I did, where I could.



so you basically admit your folding on the debate? :mepoke:

this is basically how your response seemed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxieMOdo6IU


Romney is more exciting huh? His wife is hot?

yeah your right Im voting for romney or McCain they have the hottest wives

[98s14inaz]

http://www.lifestyle13.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/mitt-guy.JPG

He looks like a muppet...lol I can't vote for him.

[kognition]

I have been doing my research online about Ron Paul. One thing i like about him, is that the media hates him. Because he does not work for their advertisers. The big corporations. This dude has delivered over 4,000 babies in his medical career. So i know he gets their votes. :) He was the only Congressman that stood up and demanded that Congress declare war in Iraq. They did not. The current President did though. :-/ I don't have alot of time to do this like most members here. But i owe it to my Family to do my homework on it, and make the best choice i feel would be a productive leader for our great nation. I am sick of feeling like i hate politics and the whole process. Our manufacturing has all but gone, and i shutter to think where our space program could be now if even a fraction of all that war money could have been used.

[kaotic]

so you basically admit your folding on the debate? :mepoke:

this is basically how your response seemed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxieMOdo6IU


Romney is more exciting huh? His wife is hot?

yeah your right Im voting for romney or McCain they have the hottest wives

And likewise... Ron Pauls campain...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20070825/450CANADA_BALLOON_CRASH_NY107_803131.225082007.jpg

:rofl:

McCains wife is hot.. total GILF... :naughty:

[kognition]

I think i would rather vote for the most credentialed candidate with the strongest track record regardless of how their campaign is going, than to vote for the guy with the shiniest teeth and the reasurring father knows best smile. :)

[Helghast]

even if Ron Paul doesn't win the Primary, it's the fact that his revolution is starting to open America's eyes.

Soon enough (maybe 5, 10, or 20 yrs) this country is going to go back to it's core roots.

THE GOT DAMN CONSTITUTION.
Not corporate America.

[kognition]

I think the constitution has had more amendments by current administration than any other time in memory. And never in history has so many officials stepped down, resigned or became fall guys for the current administration. It's a crying shame.

even if Ron Paul doesn't win the Primary, it's the fact that his revolution is starting to open America's eyes.

Soon enough (maybe 5, 10, or 20 yrs) this country is going to go back to it's core roots.

THE GOT DAMN CONSTITUTION.
Not corporate America.

[SR240DET]

Some of you guys seem to miss the point of what the governments roll in America is supposed to be. So please just open up your minds for 30 minutes and learn something our founding fathers wanted us to know.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RTQQJOEn9yI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MW6AKVyi6As
http://youtube.com/watch?v=23JIFy8Vm6Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I16M-qH3SbU

RonPaul 2008!

[kognition]

+1 for the refresher course! I actually sat my butt down and watched them all.
I can't believe how much i have forgotten since High School.

[SR240DET]

+1 for the refresher course! I actually sat my butt down and watched them all.
I can't believe how much i have forgotten since High School.

its been 4 years since iv been to high school, and i didn’t learn any of that stuff. Department of education failed :down:

[kaotic]

Another gem from my rep box:

"your an idoit, congrats" - No sir, youre.. the idiot.

I was surprised how well Paul did this past weekend, here in Nevada.. second place.. with 14%..

Who won Nevada? His name slipped my mind..

[kognition]

You shouldn't be getting neg repped for discussing politics. Anyway, whatever you people do... please just get out and vote. Good Men and Women give their lives in the line of duty for this country. It is the most priviledged and important of all the freedoms we have. Look at the rest of the world and how screwed up much of it is. And instead of throwing jabs about who is doing better in the primaries as reported by biased media hacks, try discussing the good and not so good things about each candidate. I still don't think that people are in reality on the primaries. The people get the Government that they deserve. Remember that!

Another gem from my rep box:

"your an idoit, congrats" - No sir, youre.. the idiot.

I was surprised how well Paul did this past weekend, here in Nevada.. second place.. with 14%..

Who won Nevada? His name slipped my mind..

[kognition]

Still doing small bits of research on Paul. He actually tied for 2nd place in Nevada
with Mc' Cain. He also raised more money in the first week of the primaries than ANY candidate in HISTORY. Holy crap, that's got peoples movement written all over it. 6 million dollars. And 1.8 million raised just yesterday.
I think his age freaks people out a little bit though.

[drift-it]

I registered republican today so I can vote in the upcoming primaries in california. Here is like a pre prelimnary if that makes sense:http://primaries.techcrunch.com./results

Go Ron Paul! Go freedom!

[kognition]

That's not something i expected. Wow. I at least expected to see him in 2nd or third. But that is a heavy margin. I don't know how accurate it is, but damn.
I didn't tell my Wife yet, but i allready bought some bumper stickers and a yard sign :x:

I registered republican today so I can vote in the upcoming primaries in california. Here is like a pre prelimnary if that makes sense:http://primaries.techcrunch.com./results

Go Ron Paul! Go freedom!

[kaotic]

Tied or not.. second place is second place

My guess is that Romney will win cali too.. Only reason I say that is because there is a VERY large LDS(mormon) population.. But on the other hand, it is the "left-coast..."

[steve shadows]

:rofl:

McCains wife is hot.. total GILF... :naughty:

And I wonder why this country is heading towards a great depression...

[kognition]

Really? I did not know there was a large Mormon base here. Which get's a little weird now that i think about it. People voting for a guy because they share the same religion. In fact, that scares the $hit outta me. :tweak:
Reminds me of that wacky Tom Cruise video i saw this week of him at the podium preaching that Scientologists were better human beings than the rest of the population. Which basically sealed it for Tom and his brainwashing religion. They tried to prevent the video from being shown. But it was too late.

Tied or not.. second place is second place

My guess is that Romney will win cali too.. Only reason I say that is because there is a VERY large LDS(mormon) population.. But on the other hand, it is the "left-coast..."

[skylindrftr]

Really? I did not know there was a large Mormon base here. Which get's a little weird now that i think about it. People voting for a guy because they share the same religion. In fact, that scares the outta me. :tweak:
Reminds me of that wacky Tom Cruise video i saw this week of him at the podium preaching that Scientologists were better human beings than the rest of the population. Which basically sealed it for Tom and his brainwashing religion. They tried to prevent the video from being shown. But it was too late.

Where I am from there is a large mormon population (la canada) and the mormon family that lives on my street has a romney sign out in front of their house... but that's only to be expected.

[SR240DET]

Mitt romney......:ugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b3etUOq7hVE

[kaotic]

And I wonder why this country is heading towards a great depression...

Please explain how my opinion of the attractiveness of McCain's wife has removed your reservations of a possible "great depression." Up until that post you've made it a point to blow-hard for at least 4 paragraphs, then in one sentence you have a gall to indirectly blame me for the possible economic recession of our country; due to an opinion on attractiveness? But I guess that's your opinion on the matter. Some education you supposedly had, to come up with a response like that.. WHOA.

You are truly a master debater
:cj:

You're so full of yourself that is very comical. Take your head out of your ass, along with that stick.

[kaotic]

Really? I did not know there was a large Mormon base here. Which get's a little weird now that i think about it. People voting for a guy because they share the same religion. In fact, that scares the outta me. :tweak:
Reminds me of that wacky Tom Cruise video i saw this week of him at the podium preaching that Scientologists were better human beings than the rest of the population. Which basically sealed it for Tom and his brainwashing religion. They tried to prevent the video from being shown. But it was too late.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me that there are more LDS people in cali than in Utah.
They don't vote for him due to that fact he shares the same religion, but because he has the same morals and values as they do. And his politics reflect that. I don't speak for the entire mormon population, its all imo.

So I guess you have the same worries about Huckabee too then.. right?

[kognition]

I am nervous about any group of citizens that might vote based on having the same religion as the candidate. I am not saying that will happen. These candidates are good intentioned people i am sure. But let's face it, people vote for the strangest reasons.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me that there are more LDS people in cali than in Utah.
They don't vote for him due to that fact he shares the same religion, but because he has the same morals and values as they do. And his politics reflect that. I don't speak for the entire mormon population, its all imo.

So I guess you have the same worries about Huckabee too then.. right?

[kaotic]

I am nervous about any group of citizens that might vote based on having the same religion as the candidate. I am not saying that will happen. These candidates are good intentioned people i am sure. But let's face it, people vote for the strangest reasons.

I wouldn't go as far as saying its strange for people to vote based on religious beliefs, but it is understandable. People vote for who they can relate to, not just based on the candidates stance on political topics, and to a lot of people in this contry religion is a HUGE part of their life. So a candidate that can relate to those people along those lines has a better chance of gaining their support. Regardless if its right or not, religion is another way to getting votes. Not only religion, but race and sex are too.

[steve shadows]

Please explain how my opinion of the attractiveness of McCain's wife has removed your reservations of a possible "great depression." Up until that post you've made it a point to blow-hard for at least 4 paragraphs, then in one sentence you have a gall to indirectly blame me for the possible economic recession of our country; due to an opinion on attractiveness? But I guess that's your opinion on the matter. Some education you supposedly had, to come up with a response like that.. WHOA.

You are truly a master debater
:cj:

You're so full of yourself that is very comical. Take your head out of your ass, along with that stick.


huh? did you say something again?

Have you been watching the markets the last couple days?

[kaotic]

How about this for a look-a-like:
http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/06/ron_paul_full.jpg
http://www.musicals101.com/News/Magoo.JPG
mmmmm.. yes... (bad mr magoo impression)

[steve shadows]

thats your response?

wow if you represent the majority in this country

we are totally fucked.

:Ownedd:

[kaotic]

huh? did you say something again?

Have you been watching the markets the last couple days?

OH GOSH! YOU HAVE A POINT! The market averages have gone down ever since I said McCains wife was a GILF......................

But what about today? Id still pork her and yet the Dow went UP 298 points........ crazy times!

:goyou:

[kaotic]

thats your response?

wow if you represent the majority in this country

we are totally fucked.

:Ownedd:

and thats yours?
im sorry, who are you again?

Im surprised you can talk so well, seeing as how your head is so far up your ass.. but I guess it make since.. since you are talking out of your ass


We all know you're going through some hard times right now.. Knowing that there isn't going to be a Brokeback Mountain 2.. Its okay... Let out your frustrations...
:rofl:

[kognition]

Not really, you can allready stick a fork in him he is broke.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12611


So I guess you have the same worries about Huckabee too then.. right?

[kognition]

I love Mr. Magoo!
Used to watch that cartoon all the time when i was a kid. That's a compliment actually. :bigok:

How about this for a look-a-like:
http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/06/ron_paul_full.jpg
http://www.musicals101.com/News/Magoo.JPG
mmmmm.. yes... (bad mr magoo impression)

[SimpleSexy180]

and thats yours?
im sorry, who are you again?

Im surprised you can talk so well, seeing as how your head is so far up your ass.. but I guess it make since.. since you are talking out of your ass


We all know you're going through some hard times right now.. Knowing that there isn't going to be a Brokeback Mountain 2.. Its okay... Let out your frustrations...
:rofl:


wow, its bad enough you have a wangan wing.

[Helghast]

and thats yours?
im sorry, who are you again?

Im surprised you can talk so well, seeing as how your head is so far up your ass.. but I guess it make since.. since you are talking out of your ass


We all know you're going through some hard times right now.. Knowing that there isn't going to be a Brokeback Mountain 2.. Its okay... Let out your frustrations...
:rofl:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH












not.

[exitspeed]

Let's keep this debate civil please.

[98s14inaz]

and thats yours?
im sorry, who are you again?

Im surprised you can talk so well, seeing as how your head is so far up your ass.. but I guess it make since.. since you are talking out of your ass


We all know you're going through some hard times right now.. Knowing that there isn't going to be a Brokeback Mountain 2.. Its okay... Let out your frustrations...
:rofl:

What does sexual preference have to do with this discussion and why are you close enough to his ass to hear him talking out of it? :keke:

[Unholy S14]

kaotic sounds desperate in his posts lol non make any sense are way off topic hahha.

shadows laying the ownage down

[kaotic]

Not really, you can allready stick a fork in him he is broke.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12611

Things are looking better and better for ole Mitt.. Regardless who wins the republican nomination.. the Clintons are going to be a tuff fight..

wow, its bad enough you have a wangan wing.

Good thing I don't care what you think. Is it cool to have your bumper have a huge gash in the front? Is that the "Im a hardcore touge racer" look?


What does sexual preference have to do with this discussion and why are you close enough to his ass to hear him talking out of it? :keke:

That was my same question to The Shadow.. What did my attraction to McCains wife have anything to do with the impending great depression 2!
I bet, THE SHADOW KNOOWWWWS

kaotic sounds desperate in his posts lol non make any sense are way off topic hahha.

shadows laying the ownage down

Do I?
My posts dont make any sense? Read your wonderfully constructed sentence outloud before pointing any fingers at me on how well my post are "making sense.."
thanks..
My guess is youre the one who gave me the negative rep, calling me an "idoit."

Well.. thats all a matter of perspective.. :fart:

[Temple240]

anarchy is when our economy collapses dips.....

not when someone eliminates the fed reserves manipulation of the economy...

you do know that when they lower interest rates inflation increases, even though the prescribed answer to inflation is lowering interest rates...bu...i know i know it's tarded, so are a lot of people

Putin 08'

I just wanted to point out that anarchy has nothing at all to do with our economy collapsing. It really bothers me the way that americans today portray anarchists.. that is all.

[steve shadows]

Things are looking better and better for ole Mitt.. Regardless who wins the republican nomination.. the Clintons are going to be a tuff fight..

Good thing I don't care what you think. Is it cool to have your bumper have a huge gash in the front? Is that the "Im a hardcore touge racer" look?


That was my same question to The Shadow.. What did my attraction to McCains wife have anything to do with the impending great depression 2!
I bet, THE SHADOW KNOOWWWWS

Do I?
My posts dont make any sense? Read your wonderfully constructed sentence outloud before pointing any fingers at me on how well my post are "making sense.."
thanks..
My guess is youre the one who gave me the negative rep, calling me an "idoit."

Well.. thats all a matter of perspective.. :fart:


The hard parts of your replies have boiled down to repeating : fart, fag, hot wife

Your posts DON"T make any sense, you are correct. You are just rambling about fag this and your gay and veering completely off topic.

that’s your rebuttal to my posts, that's not a rebuttal.

That’s like some sort of attempt at grade school recess insulting or something.

Yeah, I don't know what McCain's wife's hotness has to do with anything.

Does that mean he will salvage our economy, cut taxes and avert imploding the country?

Because he has a hot wife?

You know idiocracy is making fun of the people in the movie not vilifying them right?

I just wanted to point out that anarchy has nothing at all to do with our economy collapsing. It really bothers me the way that americans today portray anarchists.. that is all.

Your not American? I really despise when people talk about themselves in third person. It's extremely nose thumbing (at yourself).

Anarchy is not necessarily a bad thing if it relates to reverting to a free market economy. From the perspective of the people who profess to attempt to hold executive power it would be a hindrance to their ability to retain domestic support from the general population thus creating a massive down slide in standard of living. Desperate times call for forms of anarchy that would not actually manifest them in a manner that would be beneficial to the individual, because of the literal martial law that may be imposed by outside powers. You saying an economic collapse would not support an anarchical state as an end possibility? I didn’t say anarchists were evil people I don't know where you took that in. I think anarchists are about as idealistic as you can on the other side of the spectrum from social-democrats.

[kognition]

Rudy is spiralling into an unrecoverable free fall to failure. Not looking good for him right now.

In other news, Mitt Romneys religion of the Latter Day Saints were recently shot
down by the United States Patent & Trademark office for trying to trademark the name MORMON. It is currently on appeal. :tweak:

Jesus Christ ® That is the craziest thing i have heard all day. :loco:

[98s14inaz]

McCain is a corporate puppet just like the rest of them. As far as Mitt, If you live in Arizona or any other mormon controlled state you will know why you don't want a mormon president. Let's just say they take care of their own. I also don't want a president who is gullible enough to buy into that religion and it's many falacies. We've had enough of one gullible president.

RP for Pres

[Rob's S14]

:tweak:

Jesus Christ ® That is the craziest thing i have heard all day. :loco:


Haha...but seriously I think it would be awesome if someone ran for president that didn't really belong to any organized religion. Whether you want to call them atheist or agnostic, whatever. I don't think this will happen for a while though because people would shoot him down for being "immoral" simply because he's not religious.

[Phlip]

Things are looking better and better for ole Mitt.. Regardless who wins the republican nomination.. the Clintons are going to be a tuff fight..



Good thing I don't care what you think. Is it cool to have your bumper have a huge gash in the front? Is that the "Im a hardcore touge racer" look?




That was my same question to The Shadow.. What did my attraction to McCains wife have anything to do with the impending great depression 2!
I bet, THE SHADOW KNOOWWWWS



Do I?
My posts dont make any sense? Read your wonderfully constructed sentence outloud before pointing any fingers at me on how well my post are "making sense.."
thanks..
My guess is youre the one who gave me the negative rep, calling me an "idoit."

Well.. thats all a matter of perspective.. :fart:
It was me that gave you negative rep just now, perhaps you missed this post:
Let's keep this debate civil please.
That request included you and, while I am not particularly fond of Ron Paul, can attempt to show some civility to his supporters, even if I just won't agree with them... You are not even doing that much, and I have grown weary multiple complaints about your continued immaturity in this thread... Knock it off.

[kaotic]

The hard parts of your replies have boiled down to repeating : fart, fag, hot wife

Your posts DON"T make any sense, you are correct. You are just rambling about fag this and your gay and veering completely off topic.

that’s your rebuttal to my posts, that's not a rebuttal.

That’s like some sort of attempt at grade school recess insulting or something.

Yeah, I don't know what McCain's wife's hotness has to do with anything.

Does that mean he will salvage our economy, cut taxes and avert imploding the country?

Because he has a hot wife?

You know idiocracy is making fun of the people in the movie not vilifying them right?



Your not American? I really despise when people talk about themselves in third person. It's extremely nose thumbing (at yourself).

Anarchy is not necessarily a bad thing if it relates to reverting to a free market economy. From the perspective of the people who profess to attempt to hold executive power it would be a hindrance to their ability to retain domestic support from the general population thus creating a massive down slide in standard of living. Desperate times call for forms of anarchy that would not actually manifest them in a manner that would be beneficial to the individual, because of the literal martial law that may be imposed by outside powers. You saying an economic collapse would not support an anarchical state as an end possibility? I didn’t say anarchists were evil people I don't know where you took that in. I think anarchists are about as idealistic as you can on the other side of the spectrum from social-democrats.

:blah:
I understand.. you have ZERO comprehension of what I wrote.. lets break down what you consider my... "Hard Points"
"fart" - The emo icon that I used ( :fart: ); was used to add humor to what I wrote "Well.. thats all a matter of perspective.." let me break it down for you even further.. The use of that icon was to denote the fact that everything is all a matter of perspective or opionion, just because you think my fart might stink doesnt mean that I dont think it smells like roses.. Likewise, he thought you have been.. "owning" me.. whereas I think the total opposite.

Reference to "fag" - I never said anything about your possible sexual preference.. I mearly stated the fact that you might be in a sort of, "testy" mood.. because you didn't gift us with another war and peace summary..

"hot wife" - should I go through and quote how many times YOUVE talked about the attrativeness of the candidates wives?

In reply the second half of your post:
He didn't refer to himself in the third-person.. It was a generlized statement.. God, reading c-o-m-p-r-e-h-e-n-s-i-o-n please!

Rudy is spiralling into an unrecoverable free fall to failure. Not looking good for him right now.

In other news, Mitt Romneys religion of the Latter Day Saints were recently shot
down by the United States Patent & Trademark office for trying to trademark the name MORMON. It is currently on appeal. :tweak:

Jesus Christ ® That is the craziest thing i have heard all day. :loco:

Yeah, Rudy is on his last leg for sure.. Now that Thompson is out of the race that will most likly add more votes to McCain.. He's relying on the large popluation of former NYC residents in FL..
Theres a difference between, Jesus, and Mormon.. Mormon is a term used to describe people in the Church of Jesus Chirst of Later-Day Saints.. Its a term that the church actually does not like to be refered to as.. I believe the leaders of the church came out a few years ago wanting to be called "LDS" not "Mormon"
Jesus Chirst isnt a term used to describe a church, now is it?

McCain is a corporate puppet just like the rest of them. As far as Mitt, If you live in Arizona or any other mormon controlled state you will know why you don't want a mormon president. Let's just say they take care of their own. I also don't want a president who is gullible enough to buy into that religion and it's many falacies. We've had enough of one gullible president.

RP for Pres


"Mormon Controlled?" thats funny... Last time I checked states are "controlled" by people elected to those positions.. Id like some facts in regard to them "Taking care of their own." Thats a rather general statement that needs some facts to back it up, because I think youre full of sh t. Someone who is gullible enough to buy into that religion? Tell me sir, what exactly do you have against the Mormon faith? Gullible enough to buy into the fastest growing religion in the world? Gullible enough to buy into a religion that promotes strong family vales? morality? honesty? What is it that has you to heated up agasint them?
While we are on the topic of the "Mormons.." Did you know in the 1830's missouri instituted a law saying it was legal to kill anyone of the moron faith? here in the grand ole USA.. look it up if you dont believe me.. the law wasnt rescinded until the 1970's

[kaotic]

It was me that gave you negative rep just now, perhaps you missed this post:

That request included you and, while I am not particularly fond of Ron Paul, can attempt to show some civility to his supporters, even if I just won't agree with them... You are not even doing that much, and I have grown weary multiple complaints about your continued immaturity in this thread... Knock it off.

Good, I could care less.

IMO I am in perfect right to defend myself from anyone who deceides to belittle me, question my education, or attack me. When respect is givin to me, I give back. Everything I've posted, other than my first post, has been in defence of myself.. and what i've said.

[slidingsky]

This just in, Kaotic locked out of the Ron Paul Debate.

[Phlip]

Good, I could care less.

IMO I am in perfect right to defend myself from anyone who deceides to belittle me, question my education, or attack me. When respect is givin to me, I give back. Everything I've posted, other than my first post, has been in defence of myself.. and what i've said.

Allow me, for a moment to introduce you to where you entered this thread:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=1773822&postcount=125
That, sir was quite silly and had little to do with anything other than you upping your post count a little bit in hopes of getting a rise out of people.
My great granddaddy used to say "you play in shit long enough, you're bound to get some on you," and that is never more apparent than the people who are apparently strong enough in what they believe about the candidacy of Ron Paul to actually engage you in disagreement, to only be met with your continued immaturity.
I am NOT asking you or anyone else in this thread to begin to behave like civilized adults... I am trying to allow people to state their opinions without it having to come to me playing the bad guy and locking/deleting the thread, and YOU are a large part of it becoming what I don't want it to be, so knock it off.

I have now had to respond twice in a thread about someone who I have nothing nice to say about and therefore have no other reason to respond to beyond the greater good of the forum, please do not force my hand to have to blow any more of my posts in this thread.

[98s14inaz]

:blah:
"Mormon Controlled?" thats funny... Last time I checked states are "controlled" by people elected to those positions.. Id like some facts in regard to them "Taking care of their own." Thats a rather general statement that needs some facts to back it up, because I think youre full of sh t. Someone who is gullible enough to buy into that religion? Tell me sir, what exactly do you have against the Mormon faith? Gullible enough to buy into the fastest growing religion in the world? Gullible enough to buy into a religion that promotes strong family vales? morality? honesty? What is it that has you to heated up agasint them?
While we are on the topic of the "Mormons.." Did you know in the 1830's missouri instituted a law saying it was legal to kill anyone of the moron faith? here in the grand ole USA.. look it up if you dont believe me.. the law wasnt rescinded until the 1970's

I see I found your nerve. I don't have anything against the mormon faith. I just know it is full of crap. "dum-dum-dum-dum-dum." I've corrupted several mormon girls and learned all about that sham of a religion from my own research. I'd rather convert to islam than be mormon. The whole basis of the religion is based on a series of convenient lies (even more unbelievable than christianity and islam put together). I'll let all the capable people in the room do their own research if they don't believe me.

I'm not trying to attack you. I wouldn't want a catholic or islamic president either.

[drift-it]

and thats yours?
im sorry, who are you again?

Im surprised you can talk so well, seeing as how your head is so far up your ass.. but I guess it make since.. since you are talking out of your ass


We all know you're going through some hard times right now.. Knowing that there isn't going to be a Brokeback Mountain 2.. Its okay... Let out your frustrations...
:rofl:


Hey bud how about you stay out of this thread, you have not had one good point in any of your posts. Most of them are down right rude and your just looking to pick a fight. Grow up

[Unholy S14]

Do I?
My posts dont make any sense? Read your wonderfully constructed sentence outloud before pointing any fingers at me on how well my post are "making sense.."
thanks..
My guess is youre the one who gave me the negative rep, calling me an "idoit."

Well.. thats all a matter of perspective..

nope not me.

and i typed that post on my iphone in a hurry.

[Phlip]

Guys, I was talking to everyone, not just kaotic when I asked him to knock it off.

[kognition]

Paging Dr Paul, report to surgery STAT!
Seriously, i am up for an exciting civillized debate. :rolleyes:
http://www.kognitiondesign.com/Dying.jpg

[kaotic]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

[TheSquidd]

I read his response to those newsletters, he basically said he had a team that wrote those and he rarely even looked over them.

If you want to believe him it's up to you.

[kognition]

That's not debating. That's called a drive by. :(

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

[kaotic]

I read his response to those newsletters, he basically said he had a team that wrote those and he rarely even looked over them.

If you want to believe him it's up to you.

Well, even if that is the case; would that still make it ok? It was his newletter, and his staff. I sure hope if the far chance of him actually making it into the oval office, he wouldn't have the same mind set as before.

That's not debating. That's called a drive by. :(
:bow:

[SR240DET]

NAACP Director Comes To Ron Paul's Defense

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PvFLSwDvBUA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AvzsiESqVss&feature=related

[kaotic]

why does that first clip sound cut?
why would he said HE was just taken out of context if RP is saying that he had no part of it? "hes correcting what hes saying.." that little bit made me think. why would he need to correct what he said, if he didnt say it.


he really does talk and look like mr. magoo.. at times it sounded as if he was going around the question. its was a bit of a ramble once the question was presented, and the excuse he gave was a bit transparent too. Theres no way to prove that he wrote it, or read it; he could have been totally in the dark as he said. but its the simple fact that it was a part of a news letter with his name on it. his paper.

[kognition]

So no debators then? :confused:


why does that first clip sound cut?
why would he said HE was just taken out of context if RP is saying that he had no part of it? "hes correcting what hes saying.." that little bit made me think. why would he need to correct what he said, if he didnt say it.


he really does talk and look like mr. magoo.. at times it sounded as if he was going around the question. its was a bit of a ramble once the question was presented, and the excuse he gave was a bit transparent too. Theres no way to prove that he wrote it, or read it; he could have been totally in the dark as he said. but its the simple fact that it was a part of a news letter with his name on it. his paper.

[SR240DET]

why does that first clip sound cut?
why would he said HE was just taken out of context if RP is saying that he had no part of it? "hes correcting what hes saying.." that little bit made me think. why would he need to correct what he said, if he didnt say it.


he really does talk and look like mr. magoo.. at times it sounded as if he was going around the question. its was a bit of a ramble once the question was presented, and the excuse he gave was a bit transparent too. Theres no way to prove that he wrote it, or read it; he could have been totally in the dark as he said. but its the simple fact that it was a part of a news letter with his name on it. his paper.

why does it sound cut? http://www.scotthortonshow.com/2007/08/30/antiwar-radio-nelson-linder/ go ahead and listen to the full 28 minutes.

when Nelson linder said " taken out of context in that conversation" he was referring to this http://youtube.com/watch?v=EURO1djA_jA Listen to James Kirchick, the guy who is accusing ron paul for being racist. :mepoke: :zzz:

talking about supporting racism in their early years Mitt romney..... Mitt romney is a member of the mormon religion whos doctrine teaches that blacks were "less valiant" spirits in what Mormons believe to have been a pre-earth existence. Church leaders have taught for 175 years that being born with black skin and features (the mark of Cain) was punishment by God for their "less than faithful" actions. Based on this doctrine, the Mormon Church prohibited blacks from holding the LDS Priesthood until 1978 when it lifted the ban.

Mitt romney was 31 when the ban was lifted in 1978 that means he supported this doctrine before it was banned.

i pick this up from some random person i forgot where, but it includes facts.

[Phlip]

^^^ More on that here:
http://alternet.org/story/52686/

[98s14inaz]

talking about supporting racism in their early years Mitt romney.....

i pick this up from some random person i forgot where, but it includes facts.

You think that thing about the blacks is bad, wait till you hear about where Jesus visited after he was crucified. Just say no to Mitt...RP for president!

[Phlip]

You think that thing about the blacks is bad, wait till you hear about where Jesus visited after he was crucified. Just say no to Mitt...RP for president!

Please keep this argument political, let us not cross into religion, please

[kaotic]

why does it sound cut? http://www.scotthortonshow.com/2007/08/30/antiwar-radio-nelson-linder/ go ahead and listen to the full 28 minutes.

when Nelson linder said " taken out of context in that conversation" he was referring to this http://youtube.com/watch?v=EURO1djA_jA Listen to James Kirchick, the guy who is accusing ron paul for being racist. :mepoke: :zzz:

talking about supporting racism in their early years Mitt romney.....

i pick this up from some random person i forgot where, but it includes facts.

Yeah, when the host was talking it sounded cut; it was an observation. I cant watch that video while im at work, so it'll have to wait(sonic wall ftw).

http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/homepage.html There are all the facts. Take it as you want, the conclusion of your quoted section is rather abrupt. Its also very wrong to say "...means he supported this doctrine before it was banned." Prove that this was true, the fact that he was apart of the religion doesn't equate to he "supported it." That would be like holding all 1930's/40's germans accoutable for the holocaust.

You think that thing about the blacks is bad, wait till you hear about where Jesus visited after he was crucified. Just say no to Mitt...RP for president!
Im can truly say I feel sorry for you; living with such a dislike/haterd towards the church. Yes, its true that the Mormon faith teaches that after Christ was crucified in the time between his death and resurection he visited the americas. How can you disprove anything taught by a religion? Religion is completely and totally based on one thing, and one thing alone, Fatih.
I think its sad that someone wouldn't vote for someone purely based on the religion of the person.

[kognition]

Wow, that's insane. That's gonna leave a scar on the campaign trail for Mitt.
:tweak:

^^^ More on that here:
http://alternet.org/story/52686/

[kognition]

Kirchick talks like a trained puppet. Not expecting to be asked for proof of his racism, he stumbles like a child in a mans world. "Uh, no i actually don't have a clip of him saying anything racist, but i just HEARD he attended a confederate rally. OMFG . :duh:

why does it sound cut? http://www.scotthortonshow.com/2007/08/30/antiwar-radio-nelson-linder/ go ahead and listen to the full 28 minutes.

when Nelson linder said " taken out of context in that conversation" he was referring to this http://youtube.com/watch?v=EURO1djA_jA Listen to James Kirchick, the guy who is accusing ron paul for being racist. :mepoke: :zzz:

talking about supporting racism in their early years Mitt romney.....

i pick this up from some random person i forgot where, but it includes facts.

[98s14inaz]

Im can truly say I feel sorry for you; living with such a dislike/haterd towards the church. Yes, its true that the Mormon faith teaches that after Christ was crucified in the time between his death and resurection he visited the americas. How can you disprove anything taught by a religion? Religion is completely and totally based on one thing, and one thing alone, Fatih.
I think its sad that someone wouldn't vote for someone purely based on the religion of the person.

It is not a dislike or hate. I just don't buy it. We'll call it faith, but faith in what? At least with Christianity and Judism you can back it up with the bible, dead sea scrolls, torah, etc. What do you back up LDS with? The book of Mormon? It is completely based on JS's word that the golden tablets or whatever actually existed. The whole thing is fishy and down right silly. Reminds me of the emperor's new clothes.

[kaotic]

It is not a dislike or hate. I just don't buy it. We'll call it faith, but faith in what? At least with Christianity and Judism you can back it up with the bible, dead sea scrolls, torah, etc. What do you back up LDS with? The book of Mormon? It is completely based on JS's word that the golden tablets or whatever actually existed. The whole thing is fishy and down right silly. Reminds me of the emperor's new clothes.

And its all your uneducated opinions. Who are you to say that the Book of Mormon isn't true docotorine? You have ZERO proff that it isn't. My proff is over 13million members. If you want to take it this far we can, how about the entire idea of God? The idea that theres some all powerfull being somewhere that created everything? The ENTIRE notion of God is totally 100% faith based, any type of religion is. Its obvious at this point that you do have a dislike/hate for the Mormons.
hows this:
faith
–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Now drop it, whos to say any of its right or wrong anyways?

[TheSquidd]

It is not a dislike or hate. I just don't buy it. We'll call it faith, but faith in what? At least with Christianity and Judism you can back it up with the bible, dead sea scrolls, torah, etc. What do you back up LDS with? The book of Mormon? It is completely based on JS's word that the golden tablets or whatever actually existed. The whole thing is fishy and down right silly. Reminds me of the emperor's new clothes.

I'll jump in.

Just because one book has been around longer doesn't make it more factual.

Both religions carry the same amount of factual information, in that neither of them have any factual information.

Mitt romney was 31 when the ban was lifted in 1978 that means he supported this doctrine before it was banned.

that's a BULLSHIT statement.

I couldn't read the article on the Mormon faith being racist here at work, but just because someone is Mormon they are NOT racist. If the CHURCH is racist, then the CHURCH is racist, that's like saying every Christian is homophobic. Wrong.

This mud slinging means NOTHING when it comes down to it though.

I don't care if a candidate believes in Santa Claus and dresses like Peter Pan.

If he's a noble person with intelligence and ideals that I believe in, I'll vote for him. And people much, much smarter than I (steve) have convinced me that the Candidate to vote for is Ron Paul. Man's got a really good head on his shoulders and he doesn't play the bullshit hanky panky slap fest like the other candidates.

[SR240DET]

Kirchick talks like a trained puppet. Not expecting to be asked for proof of his racism, he stumbles like a child in a mans world. "Uh, no i actually don't have a clip of him saying anything racist, but i just HEARD he attended a confederate rally. OMFG . :duh:

something to note about the confederate in general, true confederate values dont mean racism! I dont support it, but my friends who are black and yes they do support the confederation, explained to me that its about power to the states, heritage, and a Constitutional government. That’s what i got out of it. The kkk took the flag and used it as their own, along with the American flag and the cross! The kkk and arrogant white people are responsible for this racist view on the confederation and the thought that the civil war was about freeing slavery.

lets get away from proving who is racist and religious beliefs, let focus on the political views of each candidate that would explain how they are against racism.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/

[Rob's S14]

How could you say that true confederate values aren't about racism. Half of the states that seceded did so because of the threat to slave holders rights. And if you've ever heard of the Cornerstone speech, it said that "the negro is not equal to the white man" and that slavery was his natural condition.

[SR240DET]

How could you say that true confederate values aren't about racism. Half of the states that seceded did so because of the threat to slave holders rights. And if you've ever heard of the Cornerstone speech, it said that "the negro is not equal to the white man" and that slavery was his natural condition.

these are my friends that say this not me, confederate values are not part of my heritage. here is a quote from: http://www.hpa.org/edu/csaflags.htm

The Congress of the Confederate States of America (CSA) adopted it's new flag soon after convening in March, 1861. The design they chose drew from the heraldic symbols of the flag of the United States. Their political intent was to show that it was the CSA who truly held to the original principles of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution created by the founding fathers and that it was the United States which had departed from these principles. Thus, on March 4, 1861, the new flag was adopted. It was commonly known as the Stars and Bars, owing to the circle of stars and three large lateral bars.

http://www.hpa.org/edu/csaflags_files/1nat.gif
1st National Flag (Stars and Bars)
March 4, 1861 to May 1, 1863

White people were poor in the south, I mean I was told by my friend that only about 6% of southern people could afford slaves, while 13000 black men had slaves of their own. I do hear about pro racism in injunction with the confederate, but that’s from the KKK side of town in Freeport. While most people I know say the confederate is about constitution government and heritage.

[S14DB]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

[Rob's S14]

If the flag stands for the confederacy, and the confederacy was pro slavery and segregation, than the flag is a symbol of that.

[drift-it]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/

wow omgash that's not what we've been talking about the last few pages

[TheSquidd]

Seriously that shit was posted less than ONE PAGE AGO.

And you're a mod!?

[S14DB]

Seriously that shit was posted less than ONE PAGE AGO.

And you're a mod!?

Oh I'm sorry that I have a life and can't read every post in every thread in every thread. I'm sorry I will forgo my life and earthly possessions to better read and follow everything that goes on from now on...

[SR240DET]

If the flag stands for the confederacy, and the confederacy was pro slavery and segregation, than the flag is a symbol of that.

http://www.southernheritage411.com/

tell these guys their wrong then.

http://www.southernheritage411.com/bc.php?nw=053

tell them that the free black men that fought for the confederacy, fought for more slavery and segregation not southern independence

http://rebelgray.com/BLACKREBS.htm more...

the information is out their and it bring up alot of questions in done spoon feeding you can research this information your self

all i was trying to do was let you guys know how long we been fighting the federal government in this country. I don’t care about the confederacy one damn bit. Yes slavery existed, yes white people from the north and south were racists toward black people, we all know that. The main point I failed to try and get out was the fight against the federal government and their un constitutional position and that’s all I care about. The confederacy is not my heritage to defend.

[98s14inaz]

And its all your uneducated opinions. Who are you to say that the Book of Mormon isn't true docotorine? You have ZERO proff that it isn't. My proff is over 13million members. If you want to take it this far we can, how about the entire idea of God? The idea that theres some all powerfull being somewhere that created everything? The ENTIRE notion of God is totally 100% faith based, any type of religion is. Its obvious at this point that you do have a dislike/hate for the Mormons.
hows this:
faith
–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Now drop it, whos to say any of its right or wrong anyways?

I explained why I wouldn't vote for the guy. I do not share his beliefs spiritually and politically (and he looks like one of the muppets). You can't argue with that statement.

I have something I would like you to explain to me though, because you seem like an expert on the topic. In the US we have a separation of church and state. People are trying to take "in God we trust" off our money and "under God" out of the pledge in public schools. You can't pray in public schools either. Why is it in Arizona (and other states that are "LDS controlled") there are a LDS churches right next to nearly every high school with a walkway going from the school property right through the fence/wall to the LDS church property? The students actually have time in the middle of the school day to leave the school property and walk over to the LDS church for seminary (or whatever it's called). Why is that tolerated for LDS students and not Christian, Islamic, or Buddhist students? Surely those three religions carry the same legitimacy, member numbers, and establishment as LDS. Is it control over the local state gov't or is it something else? You asked for proof and facts. There you go.

[steve shadows]

Jesus got on a boat after rising from the dead and came over the the America's spreading god's message to all the inuit people...

thats why when christopher columbus arrived in the new world there were holy crosses already emblazed in every part of art and lifestyle in the Americas...

oh.... wait.

[kognition]

Sooo, how about those Florida primaries? Old people set in their ways +1 , Young Americans trying to fix the country 0. :rant2:

[98s14inaz]

Sooo, how about those Florida primaries? Old people set in their ways +1 , Young Americans trying to fix the country 0. :rant2:

I know, weak sauce. Here is the schedule of primaries.

2008 Presidential Primary/Caucus Calendar

JANUARY 2008
• January 3: Iowa
• January 5: Wyoming (R)
• January 8: New Hampshire
• January 15: Michigan
• January 19: Nevada, South Carolina (R)
• January 26: South Carolina (D)
• January 29: Florida

FEBRUARY 2008
• February 1: Maine (R)
• February 5: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho (D), Illinois, Kansas (D), Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico (D), New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah
• February 9: Louisiana, Washington (caucus), Kansas (R)
• February 10: Maine (D)
• February 12: District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia
• February 19: Hawaii (D)*, Washington (primary), Wisconsin

MARCH 2008
• March 4: Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont
• March 8: Wyoming (D)
• March 11: Mississippi

APRIL 2008
• April 22: Pennsylvania

MAY 2008
• May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
• May 13: Nebraska, West Virginia
• May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
• May 27: Idaho (R)

JUNE 2008
• June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota

*Hawaii’s Republican Party is not technically holding a presidential primary or caucus. Delegates will be selected during a week-long period tentatively ending on February 7, but they will not be committed to any candidates as part of the vote.

SOURCE:
National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS): Presidential primary and caucus dates listed below are derived from a list compiled by NASS. Dates are subject to change. To confirm your state’s primary or caucus date, please either visit www.nass.org, contact your Secretary of State, or contact your local Democratic or Republican party office.

Don't miss it! REGISTER TO VOTE TODAY

[steve shadows]

So who thinks Barrack will win the democratic primary?

[lucky7]

^^ i am secretly rooting for him, because i fear his rival.

but i am a consevative. this is interesting, and ive got time to make my decision. its funny though. alot of people on the internet just assume i am for the GOP, because i live in the 'mid-west'. i must admit, i feel like the biggest outsider in this state. its frustrating. but its just how it is.

i still dont know. i have a buddy that is a big rudy supporter. he's not conservative enough IMO. but this is all very interesting. ill have to start doing some more reading.

[98s14inaz]

^^ i am secretly rooting for him, because i fear his rival.

but i am a consevative. this is interesting, and ive got time to make my decision. its funny though. alot of people on the internet just assume i am for the GOP, because i live in the 'mid-west'. i must admit, i feel like the biggest outsider in this state. its frustrating. but its just how it is.

i still dont know. i have a buddy that is a big rudy supporter. he's not conservative enough IMO. but this is all very interesting. ill have to start doing some more reading.

I respect that. It doesn't matter who everyone else votes for. You vote for whoever you feel will get the job done...RON PAUL 08

[kognition]

I don't know... i thought he had a huge chance over Hillary. But some smut came up last week about some slum lord dealings where he bought a house from a slum lord the same time his firm was defending the guy. He bought the house for 300K below asking price. And his Wife bought the lot next to it. Pretty Fing stupid move. I would rather have the Borg Collective run the country than Hillary. I hear that "The View" will be appointed cabinet members if she gets in. :bite:

So who thinks Barrack will win the democratic primary?

[98s14inaz]

I don't know... i thought he had a huge chance over Hillary. But some smut came up last week about some slum lord dealings where he bought a house from a slum lord the same time his firm was defending the guy. He bought the house for 300K below asking price. And his Wife bought the lot next to it. Pretty Fing stupid move. I would rather have the Borg Collective run the country than Hillary. I hear that "The View" will be appointed cabinet members if she gets in. :bite:

Yeah but the Clinton's weren't any less shady with their real estate dealings. If it comes down to a dem getting in office I'd prefer anyone other than Hillary.

[kognition]

I know. I don't forget about things like when her lawfirm burned to the ground with all of their documents just before formal investigation in the Whitewater land scandal her and Bill were doing. And the left handed accountant from her firm found dead in a park with
the gun in his right hand. :eek3: People forget.

Yeah but the Clinton's weren't any less shady with their real estate dealings. If it comes down to a dem getting in office I'd prefer anyone other than Hillary.

[ryguy]

I just donated to Ron Paul. I know he doesnt have much shot at the Republican nomination anymore but if theres anything I can do to help get his message out I'll do it. I for one wont there and do nothing while corporate america fucks this country in the ass.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/ryguy32789/ronpauldonation.jpg
I know its only 11 bucks but I'm a poor college student. If anybody else can afford to give anything and believes that the government monster has gotten too big for its britches then do something about it. www.ronpaul2008.com (http://www.ronpaul2008.com)

[fliprayzin240sx]

So wait, whos left in the running for the republicans? I just heard romney dropped out a couple of days ago.

[bboyt3nsk]

eh, i donated $2O awhile ago. Take that fox.... I agree with ryguy. Were F'd whoever our next pres is. America has gotten so outta control that even simple ideas that RP has seem extreme to most people. sorry for the political rant.

[ryguy]

John McCain, Ron Paul, and Mike Huckabee are the only Republicans left. If McCain wins expect us to be at war for at least 4 more years and expect the North American Union to become a reality.

[fliprayzin240sx]

^^^ And you think Hillary would be better? That would lead to a further "pussification" of the US. We will all be driving our cars with helmets in a couple of years...

[ryguy]

^^^ And you think Hillary would be better? That would lead to a further "pussification" of the US. We will all be driving our cars with helmets in a couple of years...
Hell nah I dont think Hillary would be any better. Thats why I am a die hard Ron Paul supporter. We're screwed with all the candidates that are left besides Paul. With anybody else the national debt is only going to balloon even more out of control. We need less pork or this country is over.

[kognition]

Well, hell. I am going to open up that offshore account now and start saving for my REAL retirement. Since i can kiss my social security goodbye. Hillary care is going to make sure that's tied up in some BS. Freakin communists.:loco: I'm still leaving my Ron Paul bumper sticker on my truck and trailer. FTW!

[ryguy]

(to whoever neg-repped me for my sig is this better or is there something i missed?)

[fromxtor]

I'm praying for a miracle, but I can't help but laugh at kaotic. There will be no Romney '08, only a cop out. :keke: