Teflon tape on turbo lines??

[jspaeth]

Hey all,

Getting ready to do a turbo swap soon on my SR...

2 questions really....

With Taka lines (non-Banjo-bolt fittings), should copper crush washers be used?

Also, is there any reason to put any type of threadlock or teflon tape on the threads....I am weary of this, just because I know that sometimes the tape gets through to the other side...

last thing I need is a piece of teflon tape clogging up the oil and killing my turbo


thanks

[Def]

NO to teflon tape! It is only to be used on tapered threads, none of which are found in the stock turbo oil/coolant fittings or AN fittings. Example of tapered fitting = national pipe thread.

[Ninjabread]

Hmm I thought you were supposed to use them on the coolant lines at least? Mine are leaking because there is no tape.

[jspaeth]

Ahhh this is why I ask...because it doesn't seem certain....

[S14DB]

DON'T USE TAPE ON OIL OR FUEL LINES!!!

Hell I wouldn't use it on any automotive application. Get some paste if you have to. I would prefer threadlocker. Never use tape as it loves to come off in chunks and clog up restrictors and other bottlenecks.

[Ninjabread]

...But it's OK on WATER lines?

Otherwise, what am I to do, mine leak.

[boost_it7]

...But it's OK on WATER lines?

Otherwise, what am I to do, mine leak.



Get some paste if you have to. I would prefer threadlocker. Never use tape as it loves to come off in chunks and clog up restrictors and other bottlenecks.


Tape could clog up water lines too...

[drftmark]

just use the paste on the AN adapter fitting that goes to the block, but not on the actual line to adapter.

[Def]

...But it's OK on WATER lines?

Otherwise, what am I to do, mine leak.

Get a new crush washer. Whatever fitting you have, if it's the stock threads, it DOESN'T SEAL ON THE THREADS! It seals on the surface between the fitting/banjo bolt/whatever and the block. Hence the reason for a copper crush washer there.

[S14DB]

...But it's OK on WATER lines?

Otherwise, what am I to do, mine leak.

Not really, Oil/Fuel will soften it and make it worse. But I wouldn't use it at all on my car. Especially the turbo. Use a liquid in automotive applications.

[Irukandji]

I used teflon tape on my oil feed line. It melted 5 minutes later and turned into a white ooze.
I wouldn't use it again.

[gotta240]

Get a new crush washer. Whatever fitting you have, if it's the stock threads, it DOESN'T SEAL ON THE THREADS! It seals on the surface between the fitting/banjo bolt/whatever and the block. Hence the reason for a copper crush washer there.


if this is true, then i learned something today.
thanks

[jspaeth]

DON'T USE TAPE ON OIL OR FUEL LINES!!!

Hell I wouldn't use it on any automotive application. Get some paste if you have to. I would prefer threadlocker. Never use tape as it loves to come off in chunks and clog up restrictors and other bottlenecks.


This was what my gut told me....a small leak is a minor risk, but clogging up a hole and starving the turbo of oil is a big risk...

I emailed Taka, and he wrote back to me that:

"Justin

I note some knock off kits sell washers. What you will
see quickly when you install the lines using AN
fittings is that you wont need them. They seal without
them. With the banjo fittings however, new crush
washers would be highly recomended.

harp"


So he said no crush washers on anything other than banjo bolts...

Apparently, everything should "self-seal", other than banjo bolts....

Hmmmm, keep the discussion going, this seems like a question that nobody is TRULY sure of the answer


Not really, Oil/Fuel will soften it and make it worse. But I wouldn't use it at all on my car. Especially the turbo. Use a liquid in automotive applications.

So threadlock, or something like that I guess?

[Def]

I work with "expensive" plumbing on a daily basis - parallel threads(what's on a normal bolt, or the metric threads on the stock oil/water feeds) DO NOT SEAL ON THE THREADS!

You absolutely must have SOMETHING on the fitting going into the block and turbo to seal it against the flat block/turbo surface(with the exception of the oil feed on the turbo, it uses an inverted flare, which seals like an AN fitting).


You don't have to use anything on a flared fitting, as it is designed to generate a sealing surface on the flare. Again, the parallel threads on an AN fitting(which has a 37 degree flare) DO NOT SEAL.


I am 100% positive on this.

[Jtuned_andy]

How about teflon tape in brake line applications? I have agency power stainless brake lines for my z32 swap and it seemed like the fittings were very loose inside the caliper even when torqued down. I have heard of the negative effects of the shit coming apart inside you lines, but I also know how to properly apply teflon tape, am I still at risk? I'm afraid that if I don't use the tape that my lines will leak.

[jspaeth]

You don't have to use anything on a flared fitting, as it is designed to generate a sealing surface on the flare. Again, the parallel threads on an AN fitting(which has a 37 degree flare) DO NOT SEAL.


I am 100% positive on this.


So you say that flared fittings are self sealing, then say that AN fittings have a 37 degree flare, and then say that AN fitting DO NOT self seal.

If A = B and B = C, then A = C

....sorry, but you violated the commutitive property

[!Zar!]

I work with "expensive" plumbing on a daily basis - parallel threads(what's on a normal bolt, or the metric threads on the stock oil/water feeds) DO NOT SEAL ON THE THREADS!

You absolutely must have SOMETHING on the fitting going into the block and turbo to seal it against the flat block/turbo surface(with the exception of the oil feed on the turbo, it uses an inverted flare, which seals like an AN fitting).


You don't have to use anything on a flared fitting, as it is designed to generate a sealing surface on the flare. Again, the parallel threads on an AN fitting(which has a 37 degree flare) DO NOT SEAL.


I am 100% positive on this.

Ding ding ding.

I though it was a known not to use teflon tape on AN fittings and such.

[S14DB]

So threadlock, or something like that I guess?

Threadlock, anti seize, or that AN "lube/seal" that some race places sell.

[Def]

So you say that flared fittings are self sealing, then say that AN fittings have a 37 degree flare, and then say that AN fitting DO NOT self seal.

If A = B and B = C, then A = C

....sorry, but you violated the commutitive property

No, what I wrote was 100% correct. Read it again.

AN fittings seal on the flare - parallel threads are never designed to seal on the threads. Hence AN fittings employ parallel threads, but seal without any "extras" because they seal on their respective flares.

I was just reiterating that you don't need to use teflon tape ANYWHERE on your turbo/water lines unless you have a pipe thread somewhere(which I do, I tapped out the stock oil feed to 1/4" NPT because I was sick of how weak the fine pitch threads were).

[Def]

BTW - I've never been happy with paste type thread sealants for tapered threads. Oil and gas will eat all of them away that I've seen. Had to reinstall the fittings on my oil cooler because of that very reason.

[jspaeth]

^ My bad....sorry

[fromxtor]

So a return bung on the pan would be ok as long as its npt?

[jspaeth]

If somebody could clarify the following things...I would be very appreciative:

What type of fitting (in stock form) do the following 6 locations accept (meaning the places that you put the fittings into, not the fittings themselves....is it AN, NPT, etc):

1) Water out from block (S13 SR)
2) Water into turbo (GT2871R)
3) Water into block (S13 SR)
4) Water out of turbo (GT2871R)
5) Oil out of block (S13 SR)
6) Oil into turbo (GT2871R)

Presumably, if the oil line has a banjo bolt on either end, then I don't need my oil restrictor that I just bought...(i.e. if you are looking to pick one up cheap, then let me know....it's a 0.03 -3 AN fitting)

[SHIFT_*grind*]

I'm really glad you started this thread, because I'm about to install Taka lines and was just going to use thread sealer on all the connections (rather than Teflon tape).

It sounds like any AN fitting with a flared end doesn't need sealer? And unflared fittings do? (Either a crush washer, or thread sealer of some type)

[jspaeth]

^ That's what I thought, but "Def" says that if you are putting an AN fitting into a non-flared hole, then it won't self-seal.....

[blueshark123]

what we use is a gas resistant paste that they sell in any pluming supply store we use it on every thing that needs a seal

[Sir]

an fitting consists of 2 ends.
flared 37* one and either a hose end or whatever you're adapting the AN line to, in case here SR block which uses crush washers.

So between block and AN adapter, use a crush washer or locktite/etc, but on the end where its flared, that one doesn't need any seal.

Hope this helps

[slow40]

good thread, i used teflon tap for my oil drain from the head to the oil pan on both npt fittings, hope it doesn't leak.

so oil eats the teflon?

[S14DB]

It softens it so any loose pieces break off from the connection and it clogs oil passages like cholesterol. Turbo takes it the worse cause of the tight passages. on drain and return lines it would end up in the pickup.


The correct way to install any sealant is at least 4 threads away from the taper as close to the line as possible. Wraping it around the flair on the end of the fitting is a sure way to get it into the oil system.

[jspaeth]

Still waiting to see if anyone can tell me what kind of fittings the 6 different locations I listed above are ^^^^^^

[Def]

^ That's what I thought, but "Def" says that if you are putting an AN fitting into a non-flared hole, then it won't self-seal.....

AN fitting = *ONLY* the 37 degree flared portion

The stuff threading into the block and the water jacket of the turbo are metric fittings. You guys seem to call every aluminum fitting you've seen an AN fitting - ONLY 37 deg flared fittings are AN fittings.

On the block:

oil - M12x1.25mm
water - M14x1.5mm

On the turbo

oil - 7/16-20 inverted flare(it seals like an inside out AN fitting)
water - M14x1.5mm


Don't use thread sealer - use a crush washer or o-ring(which seals just fine BTW) on the metric fittings. I used some Help! o-rings I got from Autozone for all my metric stuff.

[jspaeth]

ok thanks a TON....so as far as the TAKA lines I got (I dunno how familiar you are with them)...any ideas what kind of fitting they are?

I guess just use crush washer if unsure?

Need to use the right size crush washer....I know this from experience....alst time I replaced my T25, I used a slightly oversized crush washer on one of the lines and it leaked.

^Def is the man

[jspaeth]

Okay...update on this..

Emailed Harp at Taka Motorsports....he says that you DO NOT need crush washers for the water lines when using his lines:

> I have been told that I SHOULD use crush washers for
> the water lines....
Yes you should use crush washers on the BANJO
fittings. I don't sell banjo kits lines on ANY of my
lines or kits. I don't like banjo lines. I can get
into that, but that is not the point of this email :)


I am gonna call him for further clarity, but whatever

[bgindn]

Justin,

I can take it from here.

Banjo fittings require crush washers.

Yes its a known fact I am not a fan of banjo fittings. Again another thread maybe...

Crush washers for the water fittings...hmm...I don't have crush washers on any of my three cars on the water lines using my fittings. I don't leak a drop of water or coolant.

harp

[Ninjabread]

Would there be a reason for the lines to leak? Improper installation or nicked threads?

Mine do leak, although i'm not sure if they are taka, or circuit sport, as i have yet to take them off.

[bgindn]

Def is posting some very good information for all.

But this is so that everyone is speaking the same language:
"AN fitting = *ONLY* the 37 degree flared portion

The stuff threading into the block and the water jacket of the turbo are metric fittings. You guys seem to call every aluminum fitting you've seen an AN fitting - ONLY 37 deg flared fittings are AN fittings."

I agree that you CAN use crush washers, however I do not sell them with my kits.

harp

[jspaeth]

Straight from the man himself!!!!

[ripracer]

There is some good info in this thread and glad it was made. As I am about to swap a rb25 turbo onto my rb20.

I would never use teflon tape for an automive application, there are much better sealants out there.

Teflon tape is for air lines and water lines(household type).

[Def]

Def is posting some very good information for all.

But this is so that everyone is speaking the same language:
"AN fitting = *ONLY* the 37 degree flared portion

The stuff threading into the block and the water jacket of the turbo are metric fittings. You guys seem to call every aluminum fitting you've seen an AN fitting - ONLY 37 deg flared fittings are AN fittings."

I agree that you CAN use crush washers, however I do not sell them with my kits.

harp

I've never tried the parallel thread metric fittings without some sort of sealer(crush washer or o-ring), but my guess is that the fitting or female threads are being distorted enough to somehow seal enough on the thread. If things are not deformed, parallel threads should not be sealing on the threads.


I'm not a fan of copper crush washers on aluminum to aluminum fittings, as you need to REALLY get close to yielding the female threads on the block to really seal on the washer.

Rubber o-rings that you can find at any parts store will provide an excellent long lasting seal, and only cost a few bucks max. Put them at the root of the metric threads(i.e. going into the block and turbo, not the flared AN stuff), and screw it down. You'll feel the o-ring contact, then you can get a reasonable torque on the fitting after that. The nice thing is that the o-rings also act as a anti-vibration device on the fitting, and they seem to never loosen up with an o-ring installed underneath them due to the added friction and "cushyness" they provide.

[bgindn]

Def

Just a heads up. Six years back when I was coming up with the lines I tried to use O-rings on the oil line. They all melted clean off. I'd recomend against the o-rings for that reason. Temps get very hot in that area.

harp

[LB.Motoring]

Copper squash washer > O Ring

[Ninjabread]

Oh yea update:

The reason mine were leaking, is that they were loose where the fitting meets the turbo.

Everything was DRY everywhere else. The are Earl's lines. No banjos.

[Def]

Def

Just a heads up. Six years back when I was coming up with the lines I tried to use O-rings on the oil line. They all melted clean off. I'd recomend against the o-rings for that reason. Temps get very hot in that area.

harp

Ahhh - I'm not using o-rings on my oil line. I got sick of messing with the wussy metric super fine threads so I tapped it to 1/8" NPT.

That said, viton o-rings are good to 450 deg F - should hold up fine. They're not something you'd find in an autoparts store though.

My oil temps also never go over 200 deg F.