Ignited Push button start into S13 troubles

[.:JD240:.]

I just finished wiring up my button, and it doesn't work. It will crank the engine over and when it seems like it's started and i let go of the button it's seems to stall or something. When I use the key it starts normally, anyone have any ideas?

Mine is set up kind of like this:
http://www.hostdub.com/albums/evilpat_album08/Starter_Button_002.jpg
The only difference is that have the 12v power at both sides of the ignited switch coming from pin 30 on the relay. And of course the wire colors aren't right.

[g6civcx]

The ignition switch harness has 5 pins: 12V(+), Accessories, Ignition, and two (2), repeat, 2 starter pins.

1 starter pin goes to the starter while another goes to the ECU. I think you're missing the other wire to the ECU. That's why it's cranking but not starting.


That wiring diagram is not correct for Nissan. If you're nice to me I can do a correct schematic for you. But first, you have to answer my questions:

1) What is the brand of the start switch?
2) How many pins does it have?
3) What does each pin do?
4) What is the maximum current (measured in Amps) can each pin handle?
5) What happens when the start button is pressed? Which pins are connected?

If you don't know the answer, contact the vendor and maybe they can contact the manufacturer.

If you can't get the answer, sell the switch and get another one from a reputable manufacturer. This is very basic information to wire up electronics and any manufacturer not willing to supply you with this info is shady.

[.:JD240:.]

I have the same switch as the picture, the relay is a 30 amp but also has the same pins.
1)The brand is Ignited and I had to buy the relay my self

2)The relay has 5 pins the switch itself has 4

3)My pins have the same numbers as the ones in the picture.
Pin 87 and 87a Power whatever it is your wiring (i have 87 on my black with white stripe starter wire)
Pin 86 goes to the switching means (I have it on my ignited switch)
Pin 85 is ground (going straight to the body via a bold around the shifter)
Pin 30 goes to fused power from battery (Not sure what that really means, but I have it going to black and yellow from my ignition switch which is powered only when the key is on)

Now for the ignited unit (same numbers as the picture):
1 and 4 Supposed to get 12 volts when the ignition is on (I have them getting power from the same place as pin 30 on the relay could that be the problemÉ)
3 supposed to go to starter their crappy instructions say to use a relay but don`t use one in the diagram (mine is going to pin 86 on the relay)
2 ground (Mine goes to the black wire from my cigarette lighter)

4)The relay is 30 amps (recommended by ignited on their $&?t instructions)

5)When the button is pressed the starter works the engine tries to crank and when it sounds like it`s started and you release the button the engine dies. I noticed today when i try the button 3 times like 2 second wait between tries the engine will start but just barely. as for the schematic of the relay i`ll have to get you the schematic tomorrow, because the relay is in the car.

Thank you for your help and any info you can give me.
-Jon

[onesicklambo]

are you leaving the key in when its being push button started? I think its either one of the wires is not getting power when your push button starting it(ACC wire more then likely) try this...turn the key to the ON(one click before START) and then push the button. DO you want to push button start it without the key in at all times? is there an immobilizer chip in the key?

[koukimonster139]

just turn the key lazy bastard

[yokotas13]

i had hte same exact problem with a homeade switch setup
Id push it for about 4 seconds
release
then go again and it woudl start
but when i took it o ut, started up just fine

[onesicklambo]

Starter Black/White Ignition Switch Harness Ignition Black/Red Ignition Switch Harness Ignition 2 Black/Yellow (cold start Wire) Accessory Blue Ignition Switch Harness
all of those need power while starting i think

[.:JD240:.]

The key is in the on position when i push the button. Acc is not supposed to be powered when you start the car, it goes off when the key is in the start position. I can still start it with the key. There is no immobilizer chip, i drive a 1990 240 sx.

[deesz]

just so yuo know the wire colors do change at the ignition harness so dont fallow what people say make sure you test the wires. use a dvom, u dont have an airbag so you could use a test light.
check to see which one has 12v when the key is fully turned
you will have two starter wires and you will have to send 12 volts to both of them

[.:JD240:.]

Yea i know the colors are wrong, but the 2 12v wires for ignitionÉ, i only had one light up with my test light when i was in the start position

[g6civcx]

Don't worry about the relay for now. It' just a standard 12V 5pin relay. Let's talk about the starter switch.

Can you answer this question for me?

4) What is the maximum current (measured in Amps) can each pin handle?


How much curren can pins 1 and 4 handle? You can connect these pins to your ignition switch but you have to be careful that you use the right gauge wire and, if necessary, put a fuse in front of them.

Basically, how many amps can your starter switch handle? Because potentially this switch can see as much as 30A if you wire it to the ignition switch (the ignition switch has a 30A fusible link).

The problem is if your starter switch is rated for less than 30A, you may have already fried it if you don't have a fuse in front of it.

Can you find out the answer to this? If you know for sure it can take 30A max then I'll be more confident that the rest will work.

[g6civcx]

The key is in the on position when i push the button. Acc is not supposed to be powered when you start the car, it goes off when the key is in the start position. I can still start it with the key. There is no immobilizer chip, i drive a 1990 240 sx.

This is correct. The Blue accessories wire gets no current when the key is turned to ST. This is to reduce current draw and to help send all the cranking power to the starter.

[.:JD240:.]

Don't worry about the relay for now. It' just a standard 12V 5pin relay. Let's talk about the starter switch.

Can you answer this question for me?



How much curren can pins 1 and 4 handle? You can connect these pins to your ignition switch but you have to be careful that you use the right gauge wire and, if necessary, put a fuse in front of them.

Basically, how many amps can your starter switch handle? Because potentially this switch can see as much as 30A if you wire it to the ignition switch (the ignition switch has a 30A fusible link).

The problem is if your starter switch is rated for less than 30A, you may have already fried it if you don't have a fuse in front of it.

Can you find out the answer to this? If you know for sure it can take 30A max then I'll be more confident that the rest will work.

I sent an e-mail to ignited asking them how much current the switch can handle hopefully they get back to me.

Well browsing their site I find a different set of instructions then the ones that came with my button, are all generic 5pin relays the same (as in which pins are which?), because the way they say to wire out the pins of the relay is not the same as what i did. The way i wired the relay is according to the instructions from the relay manufacturer,should i try the way on the ignited site?

http://www.ignitedperformance.com/pushbutton.pdf

They have pin 85(supposed to be ground) and pin 30(supposed to be fused power from battery) flip flopped.
They also have pin 86(supposed to go to the switching means) and pin 87( supposed to go to whatever your powering starter in my case) flip flopped.

I did notice that the wire i have giving power to the switch is not 12 gauge it's inferior could this be my problem?

[g6civcx]

I sent an e-mail to ignited asking them how much current the switch can handle hopefully they get back to me.

Well browsing their site I find a different set of instructions then the ones that came with my button, are all generic 5pin relays the same (as in which pins are which?), because the way they say to wire out the pins of the relay is not the same as what i did. The way i wired the relay is according to the instructions from the relay manufacturer,should i try the way on the ignited site?

http://www.ignitedperformance.com/pushbutton.pdf

They have pin 85(supposed to be ground) and pin 30(supposed to be fused power from battery) flip flopped.
They also have pin 86(supposed to go to the switching means) and pin 87( supposed to go to whatever your powering starter in my case) flip flopped.

I did notice that the wire i have giving power to the switch is not 12 gauge it's inferior could this be my problem?

Alright, right now my recommendation is to get rid of this switch. Their wiring instructions are wrong!

12V relays are pretty standard. 85-86 are control signal and ground. Doesn't matter which is which. 30 is current. 87 is load.

Their instructions are completely wrong!

This is the correct way.

-4 to 12 volt source
-3 to 85 or 86, the other one of 85 or 86 to ground
30 to 12 volt source
87 to starter wire


It looks like 1 and 2 are for the illumination. These 2 pins are not important.

This switch is a piece of junk.

If you still want to use it, I would remove your starter switch and check for continuity between pin 3 and pin 4 with a multimeter when you press the button.

This is the easiest way to hook it up, but this is assuming the switch can handle 30A. They recommend using a 40A relay but said nothing about the switch's rating. If the switch can handle 30A you don't need a separate relay.

Pin 1 - for now don't connect this pin.
Pin 2 - connect this pin to ground to be safe.
Pin 3 - connect this pin to the Black/White and Black/Yellow wires on the ignition switch harness.
Pin 4 - connect this pin to the White wire on the ignition switch harness.

The wires you use on pins 3-4 should be the same gauge as the Black/White, Black/Yellow, and White wires. 12 gauge won't be enough for this setup.

If they come back and say the switch can't handle 30A then we'll have to use a relay.

The idea is to connect the White wire to the Black/White and Black/Yellow wire when you press the button. That's all the ignition switch does.


Call them. Ask how many amps pin 2 and 4 can handle max.

[.:JD240:.]

Pin 1 - for now don't connect this pin.
Pin 2 - connect this pin to ground to be safe.
Pin 3 - connect this pin to the Black/White and Black/Yellow wires on the ignition switch harness.
Pin 4 - connect this pin to the White wire on the ignition switch harness.
Ok i'll try this tomarrow, but if black and whit and black and yellow are connected won't the car crank anytime the key is in the on position?

Shouldn't it be black/white and white on the same connector? and black/yellow on it's own since that's what I'm trying to send the power too?

Thanks for all the help, i really appreciate it

[g6civcx]

Ok i'll try this tomarrow, but if black and whit and black and yellow are connected won't the car crank anytime the key is in the on position?

Shouldn't it be black/white and white on the same connector? and black/yellow on it's own since that's what I'm trying to send the power too?

Thanks for all the help, i really appreciate it

No. Power comes from the White wire. Black/White and Black/Yellow gets connected to White when you turn the key to ST. Read the EL section of the FSM.

Like I said above, one is for the starter and one is for the ECU. The starter runs but it doesn't start which means the ECU isn't getting the start signal.

But don't hook it up yet until you get the answer to my question. If the switch is a piece of junk you'll need to put a fuse in front of pin 4 and use a relay.

[.:JD240:.]

Ok so if that is the case then i have my wiring stuffed up. Shouldn't pin 30 be the white wire then the two 87 pins get black/white and black/yellow?

Whatever the case I need to find the wire that powers the ecu and get that attached in this circuit.

[g6civcx]

Ok so if that is the case then i have my wiring stuffed up. Shouldn't pin 30 be the white wire then the two 87 pins get black/white and black/yellow?

Whatever the case I need to find the wire that powers the ecu and get that attached in this circuit.

There is usually only 1 87 pin. If you mean 87a then that's not the right pin. 87a is the reverse of 87.

[.:JD240:.]

I don't think ignited is going to get back to me. it's been a few days.

[g6civcx]

I don't think ignited is going to get back to me. it's been a few days.

Sell that switch on ebay.

The stock ignition switch cuts power to the accessories when you're cranking the starter. There's no easy way to do that with a push button without using a relay and making your wiring more complicated = more potential for problems.

[KiLLeR2001]

The switch shouldnt matter, all the switch needs to do is activate the relay which in turn will produce the power to feed to the starter...

Here's how I would do it...

http://tehl33tsite.com/images/buttonstart.JPG

Not sure if that would work, but that would be my first try. I've installed a couple alarms and have yet to blow myself up with the wiring ;)

[chaseSR86]

the starter "push button" doesnt need to be relayed, just fused. its a momentary switch. just run it straight to the starter wire that originally went to the ignition tumbler

so you would still have to have the key in and turned to ON. and then press the button.

[g6civcx]

The switch shouldnt matter, all the switch needs to do is activate the relay which in turn will produce the power to feed to the starter...

Here's how I would do it...

http://tehl33tsite.com/images/buttonstart.JPG

Not sure if that would work, but that would be my first try. I've installed a couple alarms and have yet to blow myself up with the wiring ;)

Good try, but that's not going to work well. 87a should not be grounded. Leave that disconnected.

Are you sure you want to put power on 87 and load on 30?

the starter "push button" doesnt need to be relayed, just fused. its a momentary switch. just run it straight to the starter wire that originally went to the ignition tumbler

This is correct provided the ignition switch is rated for at least 30A. If the switch is rated for less than 30A you will need a relay.

so you would still have to have the key in and turned to ON. and then press the button.

Make sure you power off all the accessories because the ignition switch will not kill power to the accessories like the stock ignition switch.


OP, if you can get lazy ignited people to respond I'll do a correct wiring diagram for you. Until then I don't want to design a circuit for a component that I don't know the specs on.

[.:JD240:.]

When I push the button the acc poower is cut, I know because my cd player goes off when i press the button.

[g6civcx]

When I push the button the acc poower is cut, I know because my cd player goes off when i press the button.

That's not good. Either you have a short in the wiring or the battery is being drained by the starter.

This is a better choice: http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/item.asp?id=1380&catid=12

Their ignition switch is rated for 40A which means you don't need a fuse or a relay. They also have the push button individually for cheaper. Check their online catalogue.

[DOOK]

Sell that switch on ebay.

The stock ignition switch cuts power to the accessories when you're cranking the starter. There's no easy way to do that with a push button without using a relay and making your wiring more complicated = more potential for problems.

That's not good. Either you have a short in the wiring or the battery is being drained by the starter.



I'm confused, I thought your accessories were supposed to power down on startup

[g6civcx]

I'm confused, I thought your accessories were supposed to power down on startup

That's the way the stock ignition switch works. He hasn't touched his accessory wire but his push button turns off the accessories, which means there's a problem somewhere.

[.:JD240:.]

I found this on 240s forums:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/903/pushhw5.jpg
The ignition wire is the black/white wire and the starter wire is the black/green wire. (In my pictures, it's black/yellow. Either I'm color-blind or my camera is messing it up.) For the 12v supply, I just used the headlight button harness.
It looks like i need to tap the Black/Green
I'll try it out maybe today, seems almost the same as i have it, but i think 87 and 30 are switched not sure though all these diagrams are starting to confuse me.

This is where i found it:
http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1090699&postcount=16

[g6civcx]

I found this on 240s forums:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/903/pushhw5.jpg

It looks like i need to tap the Black/Green
I'll try it out maybe today, seems almost the same as i have it, but i think 87 and 30 are switched not sure though all these diagrams are starting to confuse me.

This is where i found it:
http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1090699&postcount=16

There are several things wrong with that schematic:

1) You need a fuse in front of the kill switch, and another one in front of the push button if the push button is rated at a lower amperage than the kill switch.

2) There are 2 wires that need power during starting. One is the starter. The other one is the ECU.

3) I don't know what "ignition wire" means, but the way he's got it you can accidentally run the starter even with the key off.

<Russ>People are stupid and know nothing about electronics and circuit design. </Russ>

That's it. I'm going to do one for you tonight. Just sit tight and check tomorrow.

[g6civcx]

Equipment needed:

* 30A or higher 12V momentary switch
* 12gauge or thicker wiring
* 30A or higher 12V relay with 87a terminal
* other equipment necessary to connect wires

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9674/stocktq3.jpg

The stock ignition switch works as shown in the chart. Constant power is delivered to the ignition switch via the White wire. When the key is turned to the first position, power is delivered to the accessories. When the key is turned to the second position, power is delivered to the ignition system. When the key is turned to start, power to the accessories is temporarily cut, and power is diverted to the two wires for the starter and the ECU.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/576/cutaj2.jpg

I recommend removing pins 4 and 5 from the harness. By doing this, you will no longer be able to start the car with the ignition switch. It is not necessary to remove these pins but I cannot guarantee reliability of the ignition switch because you have current flowing backward through the ignition switch. If you happen to press the push button and turn the key to start at the same time, I cannot predict what will happen.

As such, pins 4 and 5 can be cut and the portion coming from the harness should be insulated and tucked away. See below for how to wire the portion going to the components.

I also prefer to cut the Blue accessories and use a relay to turn off accessories power when the push button is pressed. This step is also not necessary. If you elect not to do this, make absolutely sure you turn off all your accessories before attempting to start the car. A weak battery may not have enough cold cranking amps to start the motor and power the accessories at the same time.

The Black/Red Stripe ignition wire will be tapped as well.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/347/openal3.jpg

Here you can see the circuit with pins 4 and 5 removed, as well as the open in the Blue wire and the tap in the Black/Red Stripe.

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6218/buttondh8.jpg

This is pretty simple and self-explanatory. You don't need a fuse or a relay if the push button is rated for at least 30A or higher.


I recommend http://www.longacreracing.com/ for push buttons as well as complete switch panels.

[yokotas13]

well
cedric is getting push button start....becuase im bored

[projekt_s13]

Wow dude nice write up! Very detailed.

Giving you + rep for that, keep up the great work.


Equipment needed:

* 30A or higher 12V momentary switch
* 12gauge or thicker wiring
* 30A or higher 12V relay with 87a terminal
* other equipment necessary to connect wires

*snipped the pix*

The stock ignition switch works as shown in the chart. Constant power is delivered to the ignition switch via the White wire. When the key is turned to the first position, power is delivered to the accessories. When the key is turned to the second position, power is delivered to the ignition system. When the key is turned to start, power to the accessories is temporarily cut, and power is diverted to the two wires for the starter and the ECU.


*snipped the pix*

I recommend removing pins 4 and 5 from the harness. By doing this, you will no longer be able to start the car with the ignition switch. It is not necessary to remove these pins but I cannot guarantee reliability of the ignition switch because you have current flowing backward through the ignition switch. If you happen to press the push button and turn the key to start at the same time, I cannot predict what will happen.

As such, pins 4 and 5 can be cut and the portion coming from the harness should be insulated and tucked away. See below for how to wire the portion going to the components.

I also prefer to cut the Blue accessories and use a relay to turn off accessories power when the push button is pressed. This step is also not necessary. If you elect not to do this, make absolutely sure you turn off all your accessories before attempting to start the car. A weak battery may not have enough cold cranking amps to start the motor and power the accessories at the same time.

The Black/Red Stripe ignition wire will be tapped as well.


*snipped the pix*

Here you can see the circuit with pins 4 and 5 removed, as well as the open in the Blue wire and the tap in the Black/Red Stripe.


*snipped the pix*

This is pretty simple and self-explanatory. You don't need a fuse or a relay if the push button is rated for at least 30A or higher.


I recommend http://www.longacreracing.com/ for push buttons as well as complete switch panels.

[bigOdom1]

remote start is so much cooler than push button

[projekt_s13]

remote start is so much cooler than push button

lol, figuring out how to retain your remote start with a push button start is cooler then just remote start.


:naughty:

[g6civcx]

Thanks for the praise.

To the OP, if you want light for the push button, a slick way is to tap the illumination circuit if the light is a small LED bulb. That way, your ignition will come on and off with the rest of the instrument cluster when you turn the lights on.

If you hook the light bulb to the ignition wire the push button will be lighted all the time.

If you have a big ass light bulb then obviously what I said won't apply.

lol, figuring out how to retain your remote start with a push button start is cooler then just remote start.


:naughty:

There's no reason why you can't do both. Just treat the push button as part of the ignition switch. You have constant power going in, accessories, ignition, starter, and ECU power going out.

Tap the appropriate wire for your remote starter and you're good to go.

You can even eliminate the ignition switch completely with a Long Acre Race switch panel. It's pretty simple.

[.:JD240:.]

that looks great I'll try it out when i get some more time Thanks a lot for the help I really appreciate it

[g6civcx]

To put this issue to rest, if you have a momentary switch that cannot handle at least 30A, you'll need to put a fuse in front of the switch and use a relay to pull the 30A load.

Hook the output of the button to a standard 12V 30A relay with an 87 pin.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9121/button2wi9.jpg

[djl601]

i'm trying to install the engine start with s2000 start button.....do i need to use fuse before the switch and 2 relays? or i can just use one relay and no fuse before button like the last diagram you had in page one....

thanks....

[g6civcx]

Again, verify with the manufacturer to see if the button can handle at least 30A. In this case you can check with the FSM to see if the buton has a fuse on it. If the fuse is less than 30A, use the same rated fuse. If the fuse is 30A or higher, you don't need a fuse. When in doubt, use a fuse and relays like pictured above.

Come on. I thought this stuff was laid out pretty thoroughly. All you have to do is read and go by it. It's not rocket science.

If you still can't figure it out then don't do it???!!!!!!! It's not something that's absolutely necessary like fixing brakes or getting your daily back on the road. For these issues I would have more sympathy.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone couldn't get it done by following simple directions. I thought I had broken it down pretty much for any brain dead person. If you feel my writeup is deficient then tell me why.

[elnino335]

Yea i know its an old ass thread but Its the only one i found with a diagram my question to the diagram above is where do i add the switches ?

[oni jake]

Yea i know its an old ass thread but Its the only one i found with a diagram my question to the diagram above is where do i add the switches ?

Wherever you want. Most switches are somewhere in the 5 to 10 amp range, so you will want the switches controlling relays. I made this diagram up for those attempting to create a harness from scratch. Hopefully it helps

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/582215_593645543996254_551234716_n.jpg

[elnino335]

Thanks Oni jake for the reply and diagram now i understand the diagram but will it work with an s13 chassis ?

[Driftwire]

Holy old thread. lmfao best rival ever. Should work on S13 chassis no prob

[oni jake]

Well, you know, props to him searching.

This diagram will work for basically anything, as that is the bare minimum to get a car running and into a competition, NOT STREET LEGAL. The only difference you would have comparing that diagram to another chassis and motor is the amount of ECU fuses and harness connecters (lets say, an extra bumper light or another gauge/sensor). This diagram doesn't break down the ECU harness either, but all of the information needed can be gathered from your motor's FSM.

[elnino335]

Ok i drew this up...

How i drew it in my head it should work theoretically speaking, can you guys give me some input i printed out the wiring diagram for the starting system and ignition system

Need some input if i drew this correctly or not

Thanks

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/Elnino335/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps5c8b22b2.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/Elnino335/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps5c8b22b2.jpg.html)

[mechanicalmoron]

Well, you know, props to him searching.

This diagram will work for basically anything, as that is the bare minimum to get a car running and into a competition, NOT STREET LEGAL. The only difference you would have comparing that diagram to another chassis and motor is the amount of ECU fuses and harness connecters (lets say, an extra bumper light or another gauge/sensor). This diagram doesn't break down the ECU harness either, but all of the information needed can be gathered from your motor's FSM.

What do you mean, not street legal.... where are you, that they care if you change your ignition switch?

As long as it was sold new with the anti-theft devices mandated at the time, it doesn't really matter what condition they're in, so long as you don't sell something that doesn't work, as working.

[oni jake]

I can't read your hand writing to make out what you are wiring in Elnino. Also, why are two relays connected together twice? How does power to get to the switch in the first place? I can tell you that pin 5 is in fact your starter signal switch.

What do you mean, not street legal.... where are you, that they care if you change your ignition switch?

As long as it was sold new with the anti-theft devices mandated at the time, it doesn't really matter what condition they're in, so long as you don't sell something that doesn't work, as working.

It's not street legal as in there is no wiring to horns, blinkers, etc. I was simply stating the obvious... because this is Zilvia and if I don't say it, someone will and try to discredit the whole thing. I have no idea why you are talking about anti-theft devices.

[elnino335]

I drew it wrong im missing a relay thanks for the reply i wouldnt of noticed it im going to re draw it more clearly