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View Full Version : Speeding ticket?.....there are options..


s14unimog
11-20-2007, 04:05 PM
I did not write this and do not intend to claim any fame from this but I would like every single person on here to know there rights as a guilty speeder

And share what my attorney shared with me.....
(I'm from Georgia so some of this information may not apply in your state)

For the average citizen, challenging a speeding ticket can frequently pose a task which is far beyond his or her comprehension and seemingly suited only for those well trained to combat police officers armed with radar technology and a good deal of attitude. As a consequence, many accused drivers are content or simply resigned to enter a guilty plea and pay the fine to the local court. In actuality, although the technology in radar detection can be confusing, there are still legal challenges one may be able to successfully mount. Before a Defendant goes to court, it may be best to remember that judges don’t usually respond positively to “guilty with an explanation”, “I’ve never been stopped before for speeding”, “the officer is mistaken”, “he never saw me” or any other such timeworn and usually unsuccessful explanations. Counties and municipalities are very accustomed to the revenue generated by guilty adjudications for traffic violations and are quite unlikely to suddenly become “Defendant Friendly”. They like the cash flow. Additionally, police officers are under oath to the State of Georgia to perform their duties properly and lawfully. Of course a major part of performing a law enforcement duty in a lawful manner is testifying truthfully. Consequently, there is created in the law a rebuttable presumption that the officer’s testimony is truthful and it must be rebutted with equally or more probative evidence. You probably are wondering then how an accused can overcome some of these difficulties and perhaps achieve an acquittal. There is a solution, but it rarely lies in attempting to show that the officer is simply wrong, untruthful, mistaken or just plain mean.

Historically, several areas of Georgia were well known to motorists from other states as “speed traps”. It was not unusual for a motorist to notice as he rounded a curve that not only had the speed limit changed, but a member of the local police force was parked precisely where the lower speed limit was posted. The motorist would be stopped for a speeding violation and given a citation. In order to avoid being jailed, the motorist would additionally be required to post a cash “bond” and was notified that trial would be in six to eight weeks. Of course, if he could not be available for trial in the tiny burg where he was cited, he would forfeit his bond and be automatically adjudicated as guilty. What could this local profiteering be called other than a “speed trap”? The late Governor Lester Maddox even made negative comments and warned motorists to avoid certain towns (Ludowici, for example) so that they could possibly avoid a speeding citation. Obviously designed to generate revenue for the locals, this behavior continued for several years until the Georgia Supreme Court decided in 1982 the case of Wiggins v. State (249 Ga. 302). In this case, the Court ruled that certain conditions must be met before evidence of speed detection gained from a radar device could be deemed admissible. It is noteworthy that members of the Georgia State Patrol did not have to meet all these criteria as they were considered to be more well trained and disciplined and less likely to be involved in local speed traps. Local police agents however are required to conform to these standards if they desire the cash to continue flowing. The Georgia General Assembly was required to incorporate the changes prescribed in Wiggins and these standards were indeed adopted as Georgia law and are encompassed in the Georgia code.

Pursuant to O.C.G.A.35-8-12, a police officer must be certified by the Georgia Peace Officers Standards and Training Council as a qualified speed detector device operator. The officer must be able to prove that he is certified by either testimony under oath or by a certificate. If one is to challenge a speeding ticket, perhaps a good start would be to challenge the officer’s credentials to testify. Without his testimony there is no case. Additionally, pursuant to O.C.G.A. 40-14-1(4), the officer must be able to testify that he knows the device he used for speed detection is in fact a device used for the detection of speed or velocity and he knows so because he has used it for that purpose. He may not say he was told that by someone else (hearsay). He may also use a written certificate showing the device is used for velocity detection. O.C.G.A. 40-14-1(4) furthermore requires that the device meets or exceeds the minimum performance specifications of the Department of Public Safety. A written certificate is sufficient to show this requirement and the accused should request to see this document.

An interesting requirement in addition to the afore-mentioned requirements is that the law enforcement agency for which the officer is employed must be able to show that it possesses a license to operate the speed detection equipment in compliance with the Federal Communications Commission rules. This may be proven with a copy of the license (see O.C.G.A. 40-14-4). Additionally, each device must be certified by a technician to be in compliance with FCC rules and that the officer operating the device has followed the manufacturer’s recommended procedure in testing for accuracy, made that test at the beginning and end of each duty tour and kept a record of all such tests (O.C.G.A. 40-14-5). Any motorist desirous of winning his case would be well advised to hold the officer and the prosecution to this standard. Without laying a foundation that the officer and the agency have met at least minimum standards, the evidence of speed is simply not admissible.

O.C.G.A. 40-14-2 additionally requires that the testifying officer must show that the governing authorities of the municipality for which he is employed have approved the use of the device and have applied to the DPS for a permit authorizing the use of a radar speed detection device. This may be shown by a copy of the application or seal of the DPS. Further reading of 40-14-1 et seq. will reveal that no arresting officer or official of the court having jurisdiction over traffic offenses is paid on a fee system (testimony), the city must name the road on which the device is to be used in its application to the DPS and what the speed limits are. Once again, questions to the officer regarding these requirements frequently result in lack of documents or knowledge of these requirements. Further requirements are that the officer advise the alleged speeder that he has a right to view a test of the device, that the municipality erect signs regarding speeding devices on every highway comprising a part of the state highway system, that the officer’s vehicle is visible for a distance of at least 500 feet, that the radar device was not employed on a grade in excess of 7 percent and that there was no reduction in the speed limit where the citation was given for the last 30 days.

Any individual who desires to challenge a speeding citation should keep in mind that there is a presumption of innocence in a court of law and that the prosecution must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no necessity for the Defendant to prove anything. The entire burden of proof is upon the State of Georgia and this burden never shifts to the Defendant. By holding the testifying officer to the standard requirements of Georgia law, perhaps the trier of fact will find that the State did not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the Defendant will be acquitted. There is no reason not to try a speeding case since the potential downside is negligible. Although speeding is considered a misdemeanor in Georgia, punishable by up to one year in jail, I have personally never heard of someone being incarcerated for this type of violation. It seems the worst that can happen is that the convicted speeder will have to pay a fine. One possible benefit of holding the State’s feet to the fire is that perhaps the prosecutor will not want to go through a trial and will offer a satisfactory alternative such as a reduction in the recorded speed or a lower fine. At no time should an alleged speeder assume that the police and the agency by whom the police officer is employed is always prepared to submit the documents that are required to prosecute a speeding case. In fact, many smaller jurisdictions are so certain that the officer’s testimony against the uninformed defendant is so strong there is no need to go through the trouble of bringing “extraneous documents”. If in fact this is the situation for your case, why not take advantage of their lack of preparation and make them prove your guilt properly and within the scope of Georgia code? Good Luck.

k's_silvia2.0
11-20-2007, 04:07 PM
I hate to read long post sum it up for me yeah?

SidewayZ-s14
11-20-2007, 04:13 PM
I hate to read long post sum it up for me yeah?

xD! But anyways, good information to know. Thanks.

s14unimog
11-20-2007, 04:14 PM
basically its your way out of a speeding violation...

its worth the time to read this one

SiI40sx
11-20-2007, 04:21 PM
Basically theres a bunch of shit that an officer is required to do before even laying his eyes on a radar gun let alone use one. Theres also a lot of stuff required to even own the device and there must be proof showing they can even have it. Etc etc.

And in even smaller terms

"Dont let officers off easy, make them show proof of every single little thing, otherwise the case is not admissible"

unicoladron
11-20-2007, 04:22 PM
just go to xcopper.com, these guys got a speeding in a work zone down to a failed to yield, well worth 400 bucks to keep my record clean.

lflkajfj12123
11-20-2007, 04:31 PM
learned about radar guns in my physics class and there is a lot of ways you can get out of it most of the time they can only get an accurate reading on your car if you're traveling in a certain position relative to the officer

number one rule when you get pulled over

when the cop says do you know how fast you we're going

you say "the speed limit" simple

h22speed
11-20-2007, 04:31 PM
very good info here and will def. have to look up if Florida has these requirements as well. thanks for taking the time to write this one up s14unimog, and it will be bookmarked on my computer. thanks!

CSil80
11-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Will this work in other states as well?

It mainly says Georgia, and Georgia state law codes.

s14unimog
11-20-2007, 04:50 PM
yeah, like I said above...see if this applies for your state

Bobafreak
11-20-2007, 04:52 PM
Yea i heard about this. you cant contest the ticket by asking proof of the radar reading how calibrated it is, also how long ago he had been certified for it as well. If im correct. Im going to court on the 30th for the same exact thing, the officer said on the ticket unsafe driving speed with no proof of how fast i was going and when i did ask how fast i was going the officer did not know nor did he have a radar of it as well. Some say this will be dismissed because of there not being proof.

smurfgcr
11-20-2007, 04:54 PM
this is good information to know, i remember my driving school teacher out here in cali told me some of this stuff becuase he used it and got out of many violations by reading the law book and throwing it at the officers. we arent exactly the same out here in cali, but it is a good idea to educate yourself on this stuff. i also read, and i may be wrong, but i think its the richmond area chp who are using a new radar gun which can zero in on individual drivers in from a group...not too sure what its about exactly but just another heads up

s14unimog
11-20-2007, 04:57 PM
I was just clocked on my Ducati 51 in a 25

S13Leprechaun
11-20-2007, 04:59 PM
even if he does show you the radar of you supposedly speeding, how do YOU KNOW he radared you and not another car that was in front or back of you or 50 cars beforeyou and decided to pull you over cause you have a silvia or something... and give you shit... they cant unless they film it or something. lol.

motorsnail
11-20-2007, 05:16 PM
Seems as just taking the ticket other then making it worse and questioning them would be easier. Disagreeing with cops just just seems like bad news to each their own

Bobafreak
11-20-2007, 05:21 PM
Seems as just taking the ticket other then making it worse and questioning them would be easier. Disagreeing with cops just just seems like bad news to each their own

Thats why i decided not to argue back but take it to court and see how it turns out. Im hoping it gets dismissed. I dont feel like dishing money to the city and getting a point. Ive been good this whole yr about speeding.

BustedS13
11-20-2007, 05:27 PM
won't work. here's what you do.

1.) call your lawyer
2.) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3.) kick back

24 tickets, no points.

SiI40sx
11-20-2007, 05:38 PM
won't work. here's what you do.

1.) call your lawyer
2.) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3.) kick back

24 tickets, no points.

more like

1) call your lawyer
2) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3) get a second job
4) work OT on both jobs
5) tell your lawyer you have half of his money

24 tickets, and still havent learned

NiSmOKnIghTsRBS14
11-20-2007, 05:41 PM
more like

1) call your lawyer
2) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3) get a second job
4) work OT on both jobs
5) tell your lawyer you have half of his money

24 tickets, and still havent learned


24???? i was think it was like 124??? jk

Bobafreak
11-20-2007, 05:50 PM
won't work. here's what you do.

1.) call your lawyer
2.) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3.) kick back

24 tickets, no points.
24?!?!....wow. Who's your lawyer? How good or public attorneys? i don't mind paying more than the ticket would be, like i said i don't speed around like that because i don't want any points taken nor higher insurance rate.

BustedS13
11-20-2007, 05:51 PM
more like

1) call your lawyer
2) go "i got a ticket, you know where to bill me"
3) get a second job
4) work OT on both jobs
5) tell your lawyer you have half of his money

24 tickets, and still havent learned


well, to be honest, only about 15 were for speeding. and almost every one was a flat 50 dollar fee (plus fine), with a couple exceptions. but no, i haven't learned anything

edit: also, i don't think you cali folk can get out of tickets like we can in the midwest. all of my speeding tickets are either dropped or lowered to non moving violations.

SiI40sx
11-20-2007, 05:54 PM
well, to be honest, only about 15 were for speeding. and almost every one was a flat 50 dollar fee (plus fine), with a couple exceptions. but no, i haven't learned anything

edit: also, i don't think you cali folk can get out of tickets like we can in the midwest. all of my speeding tickets are either dropped or lowered to non moving violations.

so how much do you usually pay your lawyer?? I know at least 1g ball or more

BustedS13
11-20-2007, 05:56 PM
so how much do you usually pay your lawyer?? I know at least 1g ball or more

50 bucks to fix a ticket, then i pay 100-150ish in fines, unless it's something ridiculous. my 98 in a 60 cost about 350 total. most of my tickets have been about 20 over.

SiI40sx
11-20-2007, 06:00 PM
50 bucks to fix a ticket, then i pay 100-150ish in fines, unless it's something ridiculous. my 98 in a 60 cost about 350 total. most of my tickets have been about 20 over.

Holy crap Im totally getting a lawyer from now on. It must feel great to look at a cop and laugh and be like "good luck with my lawyer in court" i wonder if theyre like (ahh fuck man....) "nevermind! give me the ticket, get out of here!!"

Bobafreak
11-20-2007, 06:06 PM
^^ lol. if it were that easy. Im going to call around and see the price range for one.

BustedS13
11-20-2007, 06:11 PM
it probably sucks for you cali guys. but here in saint louis, you can't drive two miles without seeing something like a TLC or some other strip mall lawyer outlet. IT ROCKS.

http://www.trafficlawcenters.com/onlinetickethelp.html

personally, i use Dan Haltenhoff. he's pretty cool and his turnaround is super quick.

http://www.dansmylawyer.com

GabeS14
11-21-2007, 10:44 PM
in Cali I think you can expect to pay 300 plus for a lawyer, i called around when i had my ref ticket, and that was the smallest fee i found, I live in Los Angeles. most of them here want to get paid by the hr anyways, some are flat fee for 350-500 depending on how many court appearances,
If anyone knows better/cheaper lawyers, in Cali(please post) this is what i found , mid june/july 2007

drift freaq
11-21-2007, 11:06 PM
If your in Los Angeles county your as good as fucked without a lawyer. The court system is overburdened. The cops get paid to show up. The Judges side with the cops because they are the more believable people. Unless you have a lawyer. First hand experience with this. I know it sucks and I even asked a Judge about this and the Judges explanation was and I quote" The court system is to overburdened with these kind of cases that really don't matter, there are more important cases that take precedent". Ya it sucks, unfortunately thats the way it is most big cities. Thing is using lawyers is usually considered to be reserved for serious shit and it gets expensive to use them for Traffic stuff.

Nismoknightska-t
11-21-2007, 11:20 PM
there is some nice info on this thread..

im going to court on the Dec 12th for speeding..

the cop wrote Nissan Skyline on the ticket.. i was driving a g35.. :2f2f:

So im going to fight the fact that the officer was being careless.. and blah blah blah blah..

GabeS14
11-22-2007, 08:38 PM
keep us posted.

IStop4NoMan
11-23-2007, 12:18 PM
i did a written declaration once, it actually worked. got me out of a $111 dollar speeding ticket. just write as much BS as you can on those things.

i tried to fight a speeding ticket in court, and no matter how good i thought i was doing, i was still guilty.