Where to get QUALITY heim joints and U brackets?

[gotta240]

Topic- RUCA materials.

Anyone have a suggested site/store to purchase quality heim joints? I'm leaning towards the qa1 joints but please share if you have a better joint/idea. Also, where can a heavy duty/high quality U bracket be purchased(like the ones on RUCAS)?

Thanks in advance.

[Flybert]

Get them from baker. www.bakerprecision.com

[slw240sx]

Fragola performance has a line of good joints under the brand FK.

the U brackets i would think you would be better off having them broke on a brake or pressed at a jobber shop. Ill check my machinst next door i might have some over there. how many are you looking for?

[all stock]

aurora bearings. they should make heim joints too. good enough for scca/nasa racing.

you can get your weld-in spherical bearings there too.

[articdragon192]

^ They do. Peak Performance arms all come with Aurora ends.

[EchoOfSilence]

as does battle version.
spl comes with qa1's

[veilside180sx]

FK, QA1, Aurora are all good heim joint manufacturers. Look at the load indexing for the one you are looking for.

[gotta240]

Thank you very much for the replies guys.

Anyone have recomendations for a RUCA load rating? I know some joints allow more articulation(which i wont need for a ruca) so i think i only need to worry about the load rating and if they can be sealed or not.

I'm leaning towards a 3/4 inch regular thread end that will screw directly into the arm(since removing the bolt on the outside of the ruca is super easy, it could be adjusted that way).

Opinions? Again, thanks for all the replies.

[usajdm]

GRAINGER..........
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?from=Search&newSrch=yes&operator=keywordSearch&search_type=keyword&action=Go%21&QueryString=heim
Not sure if this is any better help.
Hell of sizes and always in stock.
We have one about 5miles from us so it helps not having to wait.
Its straight industrial too........ so no crappy shit.

[gotta240]

Wow... Great link!!! I didn't see any name brands or load ratings though... Maybe i'll stop by there and check it out though...

thanks again.

[usajdm]

Trust me.... its all industrial.
They deal with big construction companies.
Plenty strong for your needs but Im sure they can tell you all the specs on the parts.
Just to give you an idea, we were using those heims joints(and other parts) back in the early 90's when we were doing alot of hydraulic suspensions on cars.
I dont know if your familiar with that, but its alot more abuse then whats going on with suspension parts for race/drift.
Hope it helps.
Everyone into fabricating should check them out........... they have stores all over, so no wait time.

[gotta240]

Good shit. I'll check them out for sure, thanks again.

[TheWolf]

actually industrial is weaker than automotive

If you plan on making ruca's.. convert them to american thread instead of the queer 16x1.75mm or whatever the chineese crap comes in.

you can also pull from what local sprint car/roundy round guys order from

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/105_Rod-Ends-Heim-Joints-Sleeves.html?page=1

and

www.colemanracing.com

[johngriff]

Yes, go to baker, especially since you are in So-Cal.

Once you get there you'll ask how you got by NOT going.

Darlene and Hung are the best, and if you need someone to FAB the RUCA's walk over and talk to gary steen (http://www.steenchassis.com). One of the BEST welders around.

[gotta240]

thanks for all the suggestions guys!!! good to know automotive is stronger than industrial cause i was planning on going down to Grainger to buy industrial arms...

Thanks again guys!! Anyone know what the minimum load rating should be for the joint of a ruca? The shitty ones i have have a 3/8 threaded portion..i nearly crapped myself when i compared them to my tie rod ends which are almost double the thickness!!!

Long story short... I'm planning on going 3/4 standard threads but not sure how crazy/expensive i need to go with the material (steel, chromoly, etc.)... EXPERIENCED opinions please?

thanks again you guys.

[gotta240]

edit.. nevermind

[vvtisupra]

Go to baker precision.

[Jung918]

You need a resellers account and then open an account to buy anything at grainger.

[gotta240]

I did some research and INDUSTRIAL (ie: the grainger ones) are MUCH weaker than the quality automotive heims. Lets put it this way

grainger industrial race heims- 10,000 lb load rating..
Same size aurora heim= 17,000

[AceInHole]

I went with DXTM-16's from www.midwestcontrol.com

They were the only metric heims I found that were cheap and had a decent load rating (17,711 lbs). At about 1/10th the cost of metric Aurora heims, I figured it was worth a shot for the rear control arms (which distribute a lever-advantaged load in comparison with the lower ball joint). For the fronts I'd recommend going with something stronger, although I honestly haven't heard of any tension rod failures that were not due to a lack of maintenance. The same can be said for most heimed tie rod ends, although in comparison to others, they're in the worst spots for exposure to corrosion (brake dust on top of everything else).

I'm still half-assedly researching heims, but for the most part even industrial strength rod ends should be good enough for automotive use. The one thing you should be careful of is self-lubricating, which seems to be focused more towards applications where lubrication creates issues, such as food processing or chemical treating (things you wouldn't want oil/ grease getting into).

Ultimately, the best thing you can do regardless of what heims you get, is boot and grease them (like OEM ball joints), or maintain them on a daily basis. Pretty much everyone who uses open faced heims and bearings for racing cleans them on a race by race basis.... and street driving isn't really too much easier on rod ends.

Another thing I forgot to mention is the importance of keeping the heim straight. When you tighten the heim it sometimes has a tendancy to rotate with your locknut, which can put the edge of the bearing race against the rod end spacer. This is very bad. The bearing race will wear in a manner it isn't supposed to, and as your suspension travels, the heim will rotate slightly. If this rotation is resisted by the heim bound against the spacer, things WILL snap, as none of the suspension arms were meant to see a torsional stress, especially the RUCAs on the S14.

[Mirage]

Ultimately, the best thing you can do regardless of what heims you get, is boot and grease them (like OEM ball joints), or maintain them on a daily basis. Pretty much everyone who uses open faced heims and bearings for racing cleans them on a race by race basis.... and street driving isn't really too much easier on rod ends.




When I was researching heim's last year, I read the exact opposite, that the grease and boots will just trap in dirt particles and cause wear. Wish I had saved the link though, it was from a race car suspension builder. That and zirk fittings in the body would weaken it, aurora claims different load ratings for a body with a grease fitting.

I have Aurora alloy, teflon lined bearings in my freebie tanabe tension rods, I think they are M14x2.0, either that or M16, but anyways, the Ultimate Radial Static load capacity is 71,741 newtons for the M14's (looks like that is about 16,000 lbs from a quick conversion), while most of the normal auroras are ~31,000 for M14's. Anyways, they've been on the car over a year now, daily driven, and they still look brand new, I haven't touched them, except to check for play at oil changes. But yea, they are pricey.

There is an off-road company that makes huge heims, that are rebuildable, they have a special tool to remove the races, pop out the ball and clean everything up, may even be able to re-line the cage if it was coated if IIRC. I wanted to look in to building stuff with them.

[AceInHole]

When I was researching heim's last year, I read the exact opposite, that the grease and boots will just trap in dirt particles and cause wear. Wish I had saved the link though, it was from a race car suspension builder. That and zirk fittings in the body would weaken it, aurora claims different load ratings for a body with a grease fitting.

I've read it both ways. There's the argument that boots keep dust, debris, and water out, and there's the argument that if dust, debris, or water get in, they cause more damage. The catch with the latter, is that dust, debris, or water has to get in in the first place.

Really, it comes down to how well your boots/ seals work. With a decent setup, it's reasonable that you could achieve near or better than OEM reliabilty, where it could be argued that if boots and grease were "bad", an OEM setup would be open faced.

[Mirage]

True, but most the boots i've seen for heims are a lot thinner and less sturdy than the boots you find on OEM ball joints, though seals-it's seem to be fairly sturdy, though I dont know how well they would be at holding grease in. Could always do like the wacky UK guys and load it up with grease and wrap it in duct tape. (pretty sure I read that one on SXOC, in a serious thread)

[AceInHole]

Yeah I don't think I'd trust duct tape to be ductile enough :P

The seals-it boots I'm running are pretty good. They're extremely flexible/ stretchy, so I'm not really concerned with them tearing from use. I'd imagine with some silicone sealant and zipties, they'd seal better than OEM.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6168.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/PirateS14/motorias/DSC_6170.jpg

I've only put about a thousand miles on my car, so no clue as to longevity, but through enough rain to hydroplane, they've sealed very well.

[Mirage]

Yea, those look like they would actually seal alot better than normal "dust" boots.

[gotta240]

I thank both of you for taking the time to reply!


Hopefully either one of you could save me tons of time(as i dont have much at the moment) and answer a couple questions!

1. Exactly what size/pitch/etc do i need for my s14 RUCAS? (will a standard size work? I'm threading my own 3/4 chromoly ruca so i can make any thread)

2. also, what part can i buy that will allow me to adjust the arm without disconnecting it? Like an adapter that is regular threaded on the arm side and reverse on the heim side to allow easy adjustment... Are those even sold?

thanks again!!!

[Mirage]

for the thread, you can use any size of your choosing since your making your own. Your going to have to have spacers that take up the space between the the stock mounting tabs, and the bearing (see aces second pic). The bearing needs to be large enough to fit these spacers, and the stock or stock sized mounting bolt. Pick a standard thread, they are alot cheaper and more available than metric threaded bearings.

Most aftermarket arms come with the adjuster, its basically like an adapter (think of a plumbing/NPT adapter bushing, with longer threads), that sizes down, with the bearing threading into it, then the adapter threading into the arm, with locknuts on both sides. You loosen the jam nuts, then as you turn it, it pushes the bearing out and at the same time the adapter out from the arm, or pulls them back in turning it the opposite direction. These could be made easily on a lathe from hex stock. I'm sure you could find some pre-made ones in standard thread, check circle track and dirt track supply shops.