Study: China's Army Harvesting Body Parts From Live Prisoners

[EvilRB]

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249622,00.html

Study: China's Army Harvesting Body Parts From Live Prisoners, Particularly Falun Gong Members

Thursday, February 01, 2007

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China's military is harvesting organs from unwilling live prison inmates, mostly Falun Gong practitioners, for transplants on a large scale — including to foreign recipients — according to a study.

The report's authors — Canada's former secretary of state for the Asia Pacific region David Kilgour and human rights lawyer David Matas — implicated dozens of hospitals and jails throughout China in July, after a two-month investigation.

Chinese officials denied those allegations.

Click here for more news from Asia.

Matas and Kilgour's second report, released today, includes interviews with organ recipients in 30 countries and Canadian hospital staff who cared for more than 100 patients who had undergone suspicious transplant surgeries in China.

"The involvement of the People's Liberation Army in these transplants is widespread,'' Kilgour said at a press conference.

Like many civilian hospitals in rural China, military hospitals turned to selling organs to make up for government funding cuts in the 1980s, the report said.

(Story continues below)

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But military personnel could operate with much more secrecy, it said.

"Recipients often tell us that even when they receive transplants at civilian hospitals, those conducting the operation are military personnel,'' the report said.

Hospitals in Canada's biggest cities — Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto — confirmed "a substantial number'' of Canadians had travelled to China for dubious organ transplants, Kilgour said.

"We're in the three digits, up over 100 (from Canada each year), and the trend is accelerating,'' Matas said.

To curb what they called a "disgusting form of evil," the pair asked pharmaceutical firms to stop selling organ anti-rejection drugs to China.

They also asked countries to post travel advisories warning about China's alleged organ harvest, asked states to cease offering follow-up care for patients who had dubious organ transplants in China and asked foreign doctors to cut ties with their Chinese counterparts suspected of such practices.

The authors said states should enact legislation to ban citizens from traveling to China for organ transplants from unwilling donors, although they admitted that such cases would be difficult to prosecute.

Click here for more news from Asia.


Don't know how I feel about this. It's fucked up but if it's coming from people that "Actually" did murders or something and were going to die anyway I could see it as being a good thing but thats most likely not the case.
It's fucked up all I can think of now is beware of the knock offs!

[SW20Racer]

why cant we do that with the clean death row inmates we've got here in amerika?

[azndoc]

damn that is some fucked up shit.

Its a good thing i have no desire to visit china.

[drftwerks]

hahah guess who is goin to CHINA???

post this in JONNY5 ZT thread

[eastcoastS14]

why cant we do that with the clean death row inmates we've got here in amerika?

where the fuck is amerika?

[sw20>>s14]

-_- i find it harder and harder to tell ppl im chinese much less be proud of it...

reminds me of that one xfiles where the government was keeping dead and incarcerated individuals "alive" to experiment and use their organs...

[BustedS13]

why cant we do that with the clean death row inmates we've got here in amerika?

so were you trying to be a country hating douche or just retarded?

[sillyvia13]

Popultation Control.
IN 2050 China will have more people than the world can feed, we will start eating each other, well until we weed out weak and start over if the melting ice doesn't sink us...THE WORLDS FUCK'D UP!
I often go to Canada and there laws or actually the way they enforce the laws, THEY DON'T...at least thats they way it feels from the business's I have dealt with.

Hope the new liver healed up after Chen got shanked! haha

Downward Spiral. :fruit:

[adrians_s13]

d00d... theres a movie based on this premise. Turista! cept, instead of prisoners, its tourist, and instead of china, its in south america

[Matej]

Under x-ray my kidneys will say Made In China.

[SW20Racer]

I decided a while back to start spelling america with a "k" denoting the strong communist flavor I've started to experience over the past few years compared to other countries I’ve been to. (Canada, morocco, and Egypt to name a few)

Hating on china would be like hating on an ex, what’s the point? I learned when I was hit by Katrina and it took for fucking ever to get any sort of assistance, then I see some piss poor mud hole get hit by a tsunami and amerikan troops are there the day after with food water and shelter for people who couldn’t even thank them in English, that I don’t give two fucks about any other country. (Or how about the aids medicine invented in amerika and not even available here)?
and I'm far from being a douche, I personally am tired of a portion of my tax dollars going to pay for food and cable and bibles and electricity and running water and walls with windows in them for the fucking garbage that BELONGS IN PRISON (don’t get me started on the bullshit pot traffickers and people who cheat on their taxes. fine them if you must and send them on their way) the way I see it, if you're going to die, suck it up, laugh at them when the sterilize the needle and get it over with. When the heart stops cut the fucker open and see what you can use.
I’d rather see that money spent on public education or lighter stronger armor for our soldiers see where I'm going with this?

so I conclude with two suggestions, if you feel like calling me names like we're standing @ the bus stop pm me because nobody cares if you think I’m a douche (even me) and I hate to see these forums cluttered with bullshit that doesn’t need to be typed in the first place.
Second, DONT YOU FUCKING QUESTION MY SPELLING.

a statistic i ran across today: 17 people a day die waiting for organs. (6,205 a year on average for the math whiz in you) and the total number of death row inmates since jan. 1st 2007 is 3,350. my point is valid.

[IIIXziuR]

Leave it to good ol' China to do some whacky stuff like this.
Whats next China? Poorly made androids?

[shmiddy]

^^ i dont get it

[opponheimer]

a statistic i ran across today: 17 people a day die waiting for organs. (6,205 a year on average for the math whiz in you) and the total number of death row inmates since jan. 1st 2007 is 3,350. my point is valid.

+1 for u.................

[steve shadows]

damn that is some fucked up shit.

Its a good thing i have no desire to visit china.

damn thats a good idea

[240trainee]

a statistic i ran across today: 17 people a day die waiting for organs. (6,205 a year on average for the math whiz in you) and the total number of death row inmates since jan. 1st 2007 is 3,350. my point is valid.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics

Beware how you use statistics, there is always more to the story

[SW20Racer]

benjamin d. was an imperialistic self hating jew limey dog who thought the middle east and central asia should be viewed as a slave depot= zero credibility (ie i dont care about him)

and mark twain is dumb like mongoloid pig so you fail.

my statistics came from credible sources and simple mathematics(multiplication in case you're wondering). if it makes you feel better i'll refer to them as "numbers" instead of "statistics" but then you're just nit-picking semantics and that makes baby jesus cry

sta·tis·tic /stəˈtɪstɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stuh-tis-tik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Statistics. a numerical fact or datum, esp. one computed from a sample.

[mayco_86]

Damn thats some crazy sh*t.

[SimpleSexy180]

i dont get whats fuss is about?

i think its weird, yes its weird. but fuck it, people want organs to keep themselves alive or for whatever reason...

let them. human nature.

survival of the fittest.

[LimitedEdition]

I am going to side with SW20Racer.

[ronmcdon]

Source:
Don't know how I feel about this. It's fucked up but if it's coming from people that "Actually" did murders or something and were going to die anyway I could see it as being a good thing but thats most likely not the case.
It's fucked up all I can think of now is beware of the knock offs!

This is a interesting but difficult question. There are money considerations and ethical con siderations.

On one hand, economically it's a terrific idea to sell organs to offset prison costs if not make more money. what's the alternative? taxpayer's $$$ could go to other uses. Of course, there's no guarantee that the chinese prisons arn't taking in taxpayer funds and the profits from selling organs (corruption to some degree is inevitable i guess), but at least they're making some effort to recouperate costs. I can respect that more than needlessly blowing taxpayer money down for bureacracy and bullshit.

In termns of ethics, its certainly good for those of us that need organs to stay alive. Its very, very easy for a casual observer to say "that's wrong!" and denounce the Chinese for this. However, if you were dying or had a close friend/or relative that was, Im quite certain most of us would thank the Chinese for this service.

Its also my belief that ethics are NOT universal across the world. Whats human rights to us (as taught by Western culture) may be jibberish to others. Some countries even think the US is barbaric to have the death penalty all, while others may consider us too lenient. Lol, many of us in the US dont believe in our system. Who the hell are we to tell others whats right or wrong? Regardless, let China run their own damn country! The US is not the world police. Why do some of us have to be so damned self-righteous telling other countries whats right or wrong?

If the Chinese believe practising the Falun Gong is punishable by death then thats their deal, and their ppl have to deal with it. Religous or political persecution is nothing new in China, and should not come to anyone's suprise that they may get executed if they're caught. You get caught with white-collar crimes in China, there's also chance of execution. Whether or not you agree isn't going to change their procedure.

But say the sake of arguement, our standards of ethics in modern day United States of America were absolutely and unquestionably ethical. Do we have any stats to show how many people were executed, and for what reason? Does China offer this data, in full accuracy for everyone? Maybe, but I doubt it. Its difficult to make any conclusions here without accurate statistics. Of course, in order to do that you have to organize an investigation of some sorts. China may do it, or they may not. The United States/U.N. could demand it (unlikely), but whether or not China would comply is another thing ( also unlikley). So in the end, even if ethics is a valid point, it wouldnt change a thing.

So, if you'd like to boycott China please go ahead and do so. its a bit futile given how so much of our economy is tied in with China, but hey you may feel a little more comfortable about it, then go ahead. Also feel free to be proud of yourself should your protest succeed. If such is the case, thousands of ppl who could have been saved with organ transplant will now die. But hey, the important thing is that American values and ethics have prevailed, and thats certainly more important! :rolleyes:

China does have its share of issues going on (quality control, and something along the lines of regulation from an FDA-like administration being one of them) but the execution of prisoners for organs should be the last of our worries.

[ronmcdon]

i dont get whats fuss is about?

i think its weird, yes its weird. but fuck it, people want organs to keep themselves alive or for whatever reason...

let them. human nature.

survival of the fittest.

thats an agreeable way to look at it. sad but true. i have to disagree that its weird though. Weird to you maybe (for what reason idk, and i dont want to make assumptions), but totally predictable given China's tendancies and history. Im not applauding or denouncing the Chinese. Im just saying this is consistent to their past policies.

[0wn3r]

I decided a while back to start spelling america with a "k" denoting the strong communist flavor I've started to experience over the past few years compared to other countries I’ve been to. (Canada, morocco, and Egypt to name a few)

Hating on china would be like hating on an ex, what’s the point? I learned when I was hit by Katrina and it took for fucking ever to get any sort of assistance, then I see some piss poor mud hole get hit by a tsunami and amerikan troops are there the day after with food water and shelter for people who couldn’t even thank them in English, that I don’t give two fucks about any other country. (Or how about the aids medicine invented in amerika and not even available here)?
and I'm far from being a douche, I personally am tired of a portion of my tax dollars going to pay for food and cable and bibles and electricity and running water and walls with windows in them for the fucking garbage that BELONGS IN PRISON (don’t get me started on the bullshit pot traffickers and people who cheat on their taxes. fine them if you must and send them on their way) the way I see it, if you're going to die, suck it up, laugh at them when the sterilize the needle and get it over with. When the heart stops cut the fucker open and see what you can use.
I’d rather see that money spent on public education or lighter stronger armor for our soldiers see where I'm going with this?

so I conclude with two suggestions, if you feel like calling me names like we're standing @ the bus stop pm me because nobody cares if you think I’m a douche (even me) and I hate to see these forums cluttered with bullshit that doesn’t need to be typed in the first place.
Second, DONT YOU FUCKING QUESTION MY SPELLING.

a statistic i ran across today: 17 people a day die waiting for organs. (6,205 a year on average for the math whiz in you) and the total number of death row inmates since jan. 1st 2007 is 3,350. my point is valid.

You don't even make sense and are desperately trying to hate on America...where you probably are located at right now...typing away on your Pentium computer with your Microsoft products.

The majority of people from Louisiana, including its governor, were a bunch of ghetto poor people who wouldn't lift a finger for themselves and only begged for hand-outs. Look at the difference between California's wildfires and Louisiana's Katrina.

You go on to say America helps people who have NOTHING? People in America have opportunity...some people in other countries only strive to be healthy and have food and shelter while you sit here and complain about paying taxes. You should go read up on Maslow's hierarchy before posting again.

Complaining about paying taxes to keep people in prison? wtf? It's not "Innocent go free and the Guilty hang". There's a judicial system. Don't EVER get into an occupation of politics or law. This activity with the organs only leads to corruption. Imagine innocent people being jailed only because they match a blood type.

These people are likely harvesting organs from people that are ALIVE. Not those that just got off the lethal injection table. I would imagine injecting people with poison would ruin some of the valuable organs...

The only semi good point you make is, I’d rather see that money spent on public education or lighter stronger armor for our soldiers see where I'm going with this?

But what's the point of the armor if, by your master plan, we won't go help other people?

Don't hate on America and expect it to give you a hand-out. THAT's communist.

[SW20Racer]

1 You don't even make sense and are desperately trying to hate on America...where you probably are located at right now...typing away on your Pentium computer with your Microsoft products.

i dont hate amerika i just dont like the direction the current administration has the country headed

2 The majority of people from Louisiana, including its governor, were a bunch of ghetto poor people who wouldn't lift a finger for themselves and only begged for hand-outs. Look at the difference between California's wildfires and
Louisiana's Katrina.

i was located in mississippi where the hurricane actually hit. and i didnt need a handout i had a tent and a gun i was busy digging friends and neighbors bodies out of rubble

3 You go on to say America helps people who have NOTHING? People in America have opportunity...some people in other countries only strive to be healthy and have food and shelter while you sit here and complain about paying taxes. You should go read up on Maslow's hierarchy before posting again.

i have read maslow's hierarchy and you honestly have no idea what my ideals are so feel free to hang yourself with piano wire

4 Complaining about paying taxes to keep people in prison? wtf? It's not "Innocent go free and the Guilty hang". There's a judicial system. Don't EVER get into an occupation of politics or law. This activity with the organs only leads to corruption. Imagine innocent people being jailed only because they match a blood type.

the judicial system sucks IN MY OPINION. you're right i should never have a job in law or politics because i am what they define as a "radical" petty crimes should be cash fines/community service. anything involving death or rape (read: heinous crime) should be met with a swift bullet and in case you forgot they dont match blood types they match dna strands. dick.

5 These people are likely harvesting organs from people that are ALIVE. Not those that just got off the lethal injection table. I would imagine injecting people with poison would ruin some of the valuable organs...

lethal injection was used as an example the point i was trying to get across was if you're gonna die, you're gonna die get over it. will it make you feel coddled if i say "put a bullet in his brain and cut the fucker open"? since brain transplants are still not practiced?
6 The only semi good point you make is,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW20Racer
I’d rather see that money spent on public education or lighter stronger armor for our soldiers see where I'm going with this?

But what's the point of the armor if, by your master plan, we won't go help other people?

im not saying we shouldnt help others. im saying we should worry bout the homefront before we worry about anywhere else

7 Don't hate on America and expect it to give you a hand-out. THAT's communist.

last time, i dont hate amerika. also, i dont take handouts, i package up handouts and make sure people who need them get them

if theres anything else you would like me to invalidate please present it in the form of a pm

[0wn3r]

1 You don't even make sense and are desperately trying to hate on America...where you probably are located at right now...typing away on your Pentium computer with your Microsoft products.

i dont hate amerika i just dont like the direction the current administration has the country headed

2 The majority of people from Louisiana, including its governor, were a bunch of ghetto poor people who wouldn't lift a finger for themselves and only begged for hand-outs. Look at the difference between California's wildfires and
Louisiana's Katrina.

i was located in mississippi where the hurricane actually hit. and i didnt need a handout i had a tent and a gun i was busy digging friends and neighbors bodies out of rubble

3 You go on to say America helps people who have NOTHING? People in America have opportunity...some people in other countries only strive to be healthy and have food and shelter while you sit here and complain about paying taxes. You should go read up on Maslow's hierarchy before posting again.

i have read maslow's hierarchy and you honestly have no idea what my ideals are so feel free to hang yourself with piano wire

4 Complaining about paying taxes to keep people in prison? wtf? It's not "Innocent go free and the Guilty hang". There's a judicial system. Don't EVER get into an occupation of politics or law. This activity with the organs only leads to corruption. Imagine innocent people being jailed only because they match a blood type.

the judicial system sucks IN MY OPINION. you're right i should never have a job in law or politics because i am what they define as a "radical" petty crimes should be cash fines/community service. anything involving death or rape (read: heinous crime) should be met with a swift bullet and in case you forgot they dont match blood types they match dna strands. dick.

5 These people are likely harvesting organs from people that are ALIVE. Not those that just got off the lethal injection table. I would imagine injecting people with poison would ruin some of the valuable organs...

lethal injection was used as an example the point i was trying to get across was if you're gonna die, you're gonna die get over it. will it make you feel coddled if i say "put a bullet in his brain and cut the fucker open"? since brain transplants are still not practiced?
6 The only semi good point you make is,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW20Racer
I’d rather see that money spent on public education or lighter stronger armor for our soldiers see where I'm going with this?

But what's the point of the armor if, by your master plan, we won't go help other people?

im not saying we shouldnt help others. im saying we should worry bout the homefront before we worry about anywhere else

7 Don't hate on America and expect it to give you a hand-out. THAT's communist.

last time, i dont hate amerika. also, i dont take handouts, i package up handouts and make sure people who need them get them

if theres anything else you would like me to invalidate please present it in the form of a pm

nah, I could keep going with how your arguments are not logical and how everything you say is pretty much bs...but I don't wanna waste my time.

instead i'll leave it with: if you don't hate America, respect it and spell it right or GTFO

[yudalicious]

Its also my belief that ethics are NOT universal across the world. Whats human rights to us (as taught by Western culture) may be jibberish to others. ...

Applause. I immigrated here with my family from China when I was 10. Old enough to have incorporated certain Chinese ideals, beliefs, principles, etc. but young enough to also integrate many American and Western ones. I find often that we (Americans) are so quick to enforce our ideals and our beliefs onto others who have been products of societies that are so fundamentally different from ours. We live in the richest country in the world and because of this we are also in a society where collectively our sense of ethics and rights (even animal rights) is more developed than most other nations. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize others without having even experienced what life is like in less developed countries. With that said I believe there are certain rights that should never be taken away and I'm not convinced myself if this practice doesn't do exactly that. At the same time, we also have capital punishment, and what more can be taken away from a person than his or her choice to live? Anyway, I'm wondering if we are getting to a point in this world where ethics just might have to take a back seat to practicality. My 2 cents.

[illvialuver]

just another reason why i don't want to go to jail.

and i mean if they are going to be in prison for life, at least now they have a purpose.

[supad0rk]

This is how the zombie infections start to spread!

Everyone can argue about this topic forever because it borderlines all kinds of morale issues: There are people who need transplants, there is potentially someone making a profit off this, these people are giving up their organs against their will and in the end someone has to give up something for another person to live.

Once the investigation or whatever is over that is where it will stand at the "What do we do next?" topic. It IS a good question because this will decide whether we try to act as God and do the right thing and help others, or we hold on to the value of our right to choose. Just keep in mind that the other country is different in a lot of ways... if this was happening in the U.S.... difference of opinion means a lot more here and it would end up blowing up into a huge thing. Probably along the same lines as abortion or something.

[240trainee]

lol, I'm not even going to say anything anymore

have fun guys

[ronmcdon]

Applause. I immigrated here with my family from China when I was 10. Old enough to have incorporated certain Chinese ideals, beliefs, principles, etc. but young enough to also integrate many American and Western ones. I find often that we (Americans) are so quick to enforce our ideals and our beliefs onto others who have been products of societies that are so fundamentally different from ours. We live in the richest country in the world and because of this we are also in a society where collectively our sense of ethics and rights (even animal rights) is more developed than most other nations. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize others without having even experienced what life is like in less developed countries. With that said I believe there are certain rights that should never be taken away and I'm not convinced myself if this practice doesn't do exactly that. At the same time, we also have capital punishment, and what more can be taken away from a person than his or her choice to live? Anyway, I'm wondering if we are getting to a point in this world where ethics just might have to take a back seat to practicality. My 2 cents.

Im sorta from a similar background. I lived in the US till I was 5, then lived in Hong Kong till I was 15. went to an English school there. came back when I was 15. Our family also traveled a lot in asia. Im half Chinese, half Causasian, but identify a bit more with the Chinese. Hong Kong is my home and I will return one day without doubt. Thank goodness i still have citizenship with Hong Kong.

For the most part, I agree with you. BUT, how are so certain that American ideals/ethics are the most advanced? From studying recent Chinese history, the country has not gone through easy times in the past 100 yrs or so, but you have to give them credit for how much they've accomplished in the past 20 yrs or so. Its not that China doesnt have advanced ethics or ideals, but its just different, and as you say it doesn't hinder their practicle issues as much. whereas in America, there are so many ideals that it gets in the way of things (I see that as more primative in a sense).

Come on, Confucious was teaching ethics and priciples hundreds of years before the US was existant. IIRC, the very core idea behind ethics according to him, was to promote social harmony and stability, not hinder it. But regardless, its ignorant of Americans to think that their values are better than anyone else's. Not to say China doesn't do the same, and it accomplishes nothing.

[yudalicious]

Ron, I personally believe there are certain Western values and principles that are more developed and are worth examining. That is not to say that China has to emulate or strive for Western ideals on a large scale. The converse is also true. I know I know it's really a cop out answer, I got an exam Friday that I must get to.


For the most part, I agree with you. BUT, how are so certain that American ideals/ethics are the most advanced? From studying recent Chinese history, the country has not gone through easy times in the past 100 yrs or so, but you have to give them credit for how much they've accomplished in the past 20 yrs or so. Its not that China doesnt have advanced ethics or ideals, but its just different, and as you say it doesn't hinder their practicle issues as much. whereas in America, there are so many ideals that it gets in the way of things (I see that as more primative in a sense).

Come on, Confucious was teaching ethics and priciples hundreds of years before the US was existant. IIRC, the very core idea behind ethics according to him, was to promote social harmony and stability, not hinder it. But regardless, its ignorant of Americans to think that their values are better than anyone else's. Not to say China doesn't do the same, and it accomplishes nothing.

[ixfxi]

gaddaamn.........................


china is putting a REAL MEANING behind the word BOOTLEG

shit, need a leg... they give you the fuckin boot with it!

[CKAMC]

Popultation Control.
IN 2050 China will have more people than the world can feed, we will start eating each other, well until we weed out weak and start over if the melting ice doesn't sink us...THE WORLDS FUCK'D UP!
I often go to Canada and there laws or actually the way they enforce the laws, THEY DON'T...at least thats they way it feels from the business's I have dealt with.

Hope the new liver healed up after Chen got shanked! haha

Downward Spiral. :fruit:

But you know what makes that interesting...

by 2050 japan will have lost over 25% of its current population....

I smell immigration :naughty:

[Farzam]

Hell yeah

Keep on truckin China

F the haters

I wonder if they make knockoff kidneys