Nissan North America Named in $100,000,000 Lawsuit dew to a street race.

[racer98]

Nissan North America Named in $100,000,000 Lawsuit due to a street race.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=5745940

http://www.knbc.com/news/14521441/detail.html

Family Files Suit
The family of a woman and two children killed when the car they were in was struck during a street race in El Monte will file a $100 million lawsuit Tuesday against the two men involved in the race and the Nissan Motor Co., an attorney said.

The suit will state that the two men are liable for wrongful death, gross negligence and intentional negligence. It will also allege product liability and negligence on the part of Nissan, according to attorney Charles T. Mathews.

Dora Groce, 41, her 8-year-old son, Robert, and her 4-year-old daughter, Catherine, were killed in El Monte on Oct. 8. when one of two racing cars struck their Nissan Altima, police said. The Altima was broadsided on Parkway Drive as it came out of a trailer park and burst into flames.

Mathews said the "negligently created" configuration of the vehicle's gas tank and fuel system were to blame for the fire and compared the Altima to the old accident-prone Ford Pinto.

Mathews said that, according to information gleaned during autopsies, two of the victims survived the initial impact but subsequently burned to death.

Every car manufacturer whose vehicles are sold in Southern California has to know that vehicles are likely to be involved in collisions, he said.

He said it was his understanding that Altimas have been involved in several similar fiery crashes in the past.

Two men are in custody in connection with the crash. They are 19-year- old Robert Canizalez and 21-year-old Martin Marones.

The victim of the Incident was driving a Nissan Altima, the impact was so grate from the Ford mustang that slammed into the side of the Nissan Altima gas tank ruptured and ignited the car in a ball of fire, the lawyer who is representing the family who were Killed in the Nissan Altima is blaming Nissan North America for the street racing & Poor design , I honestly don’t know why Nissan North America is way responsible for this accident that was caused by 2 people street racing (one driving a Honda Accord) and the other (Ford Mustang) when the Mustang T-boned the car at an excessive speed.


Ok – so Nissan of North America sued for “street racing”

And a poorly designed gas tank location

I fail to understand this ?

It’s a tragic loss for the Family of the Nissan Altima but I don’t know or ever heard of a case with Nissan North America ever having an issue with Newer Nissan’s fuel tank or faulty gas tank location.

[k's_silvia2.0]

WTF!!! I bet i can find a reason to sue somebody right now.

[Roc]

sounds like the family is trying to exploit a tragedy and cash in on it.... but they are going for real money not chump change....

[steve shadows]

everyone knows that year altima is a death trap

If i were a lawyer I would counter sue the familiy of the victims.

I hate when people try to cash in on that shit

of course nissan intended for 100 mph mustang to rear end it at just the right angle on a brisk windy dry night right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

[Kn1ves]

Yea I saw it on the news when it broke this morning.

I guess the dude is just looking for someone to blame for his loss...

[racer98]

everyone knows that year altima is a death trap

If i were a lawyer I would counter sue the familiy of the victims.

I hate when people try to cash in on that shit

of course nissan intended for 100 mph mustang to rear end it at just the right angle on a brisk windy dry night right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

that is what Im saying. why not sue NHTSB & DOT as they are the ones who set the standards, what bullshit this is and fucking lawyers your running companys out of the usa. fucking human trashbags:hammer: .

[Pank]

This is retarded, can i sue the family for causing me grief and suffering after reading about how money hungry they are?

[PhilthyS13]

"The Altima was broadsided on Parkway Drive as it came out of a trailer park and burst into flames."


They're just looking to get a quick settlement.

[Matej]

I guess the dude is just looking for someone to blame for his loss...
...so he can fund his new girlfriend.

Ban Mustangs!

[illvialuver]

thats bullshit, a friend just recked her altima and it didnt catch fire, and people are such money desperate whores now a days, yeah im sorry someone died but you cant go around pointing blame.

[chituntang]

I just got to say

This is America for you!!!

[worangejuice]

That was a very tragic accident that happened to this family, especially from the autopsy reports. The lawyer stated that the amount of the settlement is to get a message out big enough for manufacturer's to hear. Just a tragedy all together from the assholes racing on an open street.Tragic

[fliprayzin240sx]

I should sue every ugly person I see for emotional distress...

[steve shadows]

I should sue every ugly person I see for emotional distress...

thank you sir (slow measured clapping)

[hybrid_eg]

thats some fugged up shit.. the homies who where rrrrrrrrrrrracing should definitely be dropping some soap in the nearest jail for this for quite some time, Nissan on the other hand shouldn't.. god knows how fast these two geniuses where driving so slamming precisely into a vicinity of another car's gas tank can likely cause rupture of even an explosion.. it couldn't have happened with any vehicle given the situation.

Its horrible what happened and i can understand their frustrations but lets not go and sue who ever you can get your hands on.

[Pank]

That was a very tragic accident that happened to this family, especially from the autopsy reports. The lawyer stated that the amount of the settlement is to get a message out big enough for manufacturer's to hear. Just a tragedy all together from the assholes racing on an open street.Tragic

pffff, they always use that excuse. From now on, nissan will make all of their cars unable to be hit by mustangs.

(but you are FUCKED if you get hit by a camaro)

[Matej]

If they actually get the $100,000,000, soon everyone will want their family to die in an Altima.

[Edgar]

Sorry to say but that shit probably wont hold up in the court of law, or a settlement if Nissan thinks they would loose.

[tre]

I bet if I hit any car with enough force in the right location the gas tank will rupture and cause flames to go everywhere :)

btw if they're going to sue someone for "improper" design. It should be the company that crash tests the cars. Its their fault for not finding this problem that COULD happen. Even though they probably totaled a hundred of them trying to get shit to happen.

Fucking disgusting people wanting more money at the cost of others can burn in hell.

Having fun editing this thing over and over and over again. but anyways Nissan should counter sue for producing negative feedback on their car hurting their market.

[drift freaq]

that family will not get what there asking for. Mostly likely Nissan will settle with them before trial out of sympathy for the loss but will make the sign a release not holding the Car design liable for the payment. Its common procedure with automakers in incidents like these.

[sncs14]

They'll get more than what they're due, from Nissan. They sued Nissan because they wouldn't get that much from the street racers or their insurance companies.

[nightkid86]

^ agree with Sncs14

[SexPanda]

Damn. Another reason I dont street race...

that and I have a whopping 143 RWHP.

[racer98]

thats bullshit, a friend just recked her altima and it didnt catch fire, and people are such money desperate whores now a days, yeah im sorry someone died but you cant go around pointing blame.

differece is that the altima caught fire due to being hit on the side in excess of 75mph,. what car can survive that ? very few !


was not due to any thing in the Altima , more I can bet ya it was something on te Ford that casued the fire ! I hope Nissan does not settle tis and I hope they sue the people and the lawyer who is causing this slander on Nissans USA name. :spank:

[racer98]

They'll get more than what they're due, from Nissan. They sued Nissan because they wouldn't get that much from the street racers or their insurance companies.

hence they dont have a $ to their name.

[racer98]

. but anyways Nissan should counter sue for producing negative feedback on their car hurting their market.



OH GOD I HOPE THEY DO ! :mepoke:

[unwed_transient]

wow, there's alot of knee-jerk hate in this thread.

the man lost his wife and two children. it's not like he spilled hot coffee on his lap.

the perpetrators have been apprehended, but he obviously isn't satisfied. granted, his suit is excessive(i want all of you see this part, lol), but i couldn't imagine what kind of grief he is suffering at this moment. it's not uncommon for people to blame those who are not responsible while under that kind of emotional strain.

so before you accuse him of greed and selfishness and bash on the legal system or make ridiculous analogies, consider for a moment how you would even begin to deal with this kind of tragedy.

[Mrpickles15]

Obviously we can't let atrocities like this happen anymore. But why stop at Nissan? We need to make an example of the people who set these low standards of automobile safety. I say these lawyers push to abolish the useless organizations that have continued to support lowering the bar for these hulking masses of steel and gasoline roaming the streets. I say we get rid of the DOT, NHTSA, and EPA at once!
Maybe then we can import some real cars. :P (skyline plz)

[projectRDM]

I'm just wondering what early morning moisture on the grass has to do with anything.

It's spelled due.

[2ilvia]

ok so the father wins 100 million, whats he going to do, pay some mad scientist to make clones of his wife and kids with some dna from the bathtub? i mean seriously why do people sue when somebody dies, its not going to bring em back.

-confused in ohio

[aznpoopy]

wow, there's alot of knee-jerk hate in this thread.

the man lost his wife and two children. it's not like he spilled hot coffee on his lap.


+1

nobody is suing nissan for street racing. they are suing nissan for negligent design of the gas tank. whether or not that is actually the case will come out if it goes to trial. my guess is nissan will throw them a bit of money and call it a day. products liability law and the ability to sue big companies are GOOD things . if a company designs something negligently and people die as a result, they should be held responsible.

btw, the courts already have filters in place that weed out 'frivolous lawsuits,' but most people don't realize this. alot of people have been brainwashed by the tort reform "movement," which is really funded by big corporations seeking to protect their bottom lines
http://www.corpreform.com/corpreform/2003/10/the_myth_of_the.html

the knee-jerk reaction is exactly that. nobody can take away your right to bring a dispute to court, but they can make everyone hate you for doing it, knowing only a very skewed version of the facts

also the hot coffee case isn't really as bad as the media makes it out to be, once you read the actual facts of the case
http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbusters-free/MB_mcdonalds.htm

[jackjack]

i think any car would turn into a fireball if hit the right way. sometimes things just fall into place. good or bad.

[Jung918]

http://www.tedmathewslaw.com/jsp3429161.jsp

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=55889

I found the lawyer's e-mail address if anyone want to e-mail him.

[aznpoopy]

ok so the father wins 100 million, whats he going to do, pay some mad scientist to make clones of his wife and kids with some dna from the bathtub? i mean seriously why do people sue when somebody dies, its not going to bring em back.

-confused in ohio

#1 he won't win 100 million. read the link i posted above and scroll down to the section about jury awards. you always ask for more than you can get when you draft a complaint, naturally.

#2 if the gas tank is actually designed badly, a victory will force nissan to redesign the gas tank and make it safer for everyone. that was the main goal of the mcdonalds coffee case, ironically. the woman got mcdonalds to change their corporate policy regarding the temperature at which the coffee was served to prevent anyone else from suffering third degree burns within 2-6 seconds of contact with the skin. naturally that's not particularly shocking so nobody remembers that aspect of the case.

[illxs14]

nissans the shit.
you can get hit by a mustang going 100+ and live...



just pray to god you dont spontaneously combust

[cloudstrife930]

im actually sueing due to a bad association of the nissan name and what effects it has on my car due to premature depreciation!

[aznpoopy]

that is what Im saying. why not sue NHTSB & DOT as they are the ones who set the standards, what bullshit this is and fucking lawyers your running companys out of the usa. fucking human trashbags:hammer: .

um yeah

http://www.corpreform.com/corpreform/questions_answers/index.html

Shouldn't we ban lawsuits over products approved by the Federal government?
No.
Many tort reformers want to prevent lawsuits over products that the Federal government approved. They argue that any product that meets government safety standards can’t be unsafe or defective. If we were to assume that was true – a big assumption – at least one problem remains: Corporate executives have been known to lie or conceal information to get products approved by the government. Often, the only way their illegal actions are revealed is through product liability lawsuits.

i guess you guys are really pro-big business and anti consumer. fuck the little guy!

as for your second argument

Tort reformers often argue that large jury verdicts and the high liability insurance rates they bring have forced U.S. manufacturers to shut their doors, thus putting people out of work and abandoning markets to foreign manufacturers.

However, there's a problem with that theory: Any foreign corporation that does business in America has consented to be sued in American courts. Thus, foreign manufacturers are also routinely sued in American courts, under American law, and subjected to American jury verdicts.

[2ilvia]

#1 he won't win 100 million. read the link i posted above and scroll down to the section about jury awards. you always ask for more than you can get when you draft a complaint, naturally.

#2 if the gas tank is actually designed badly, a victory will force nissan to redesign the gas tank and make it safer for everyone. that was the main goal of the mcdonalds coffee case, ironically. the woman got mcdonalds to change their corporate policy regarding the temperature at which the coffee was served to prevent anyone else from suffering third degree burns within 2-6 seconds of contact with the skin. naturally that's not particularly shocking so nobody remembers that aspect of the case.

i just threw that 100mil out there


well if redesigning the gas tank to be safer is not included in what the suee is demanding than Nissan wont have to do it, but they most likely will to keep from losing potential customers (that is if the altima is a newer model and hasnt already been changed, see below)

btw what year is the altima? i didnt see it

[OptionZero]

Fuck all of you for hypermegafailing reading comprehension.

Nissan is not being sued for street racing.
Nissan is being sued for a negligently designed gas tank and fuel system.

Nowhere does it say that nissan is responsible for street racing or that street racing is why this guy died.

If you stepped on the brakes and the brakes failed because the car manufacturer decided to use a cheap type of metal instead of something quality, you would sue for the damages from any resulting accident.

Basically people complain when manufacturers decide to save a buck at the expensive of the end users

People also complain when those victims try to hold the manufacturers responsible for taking such actions.

Conclusion?
The problem IS NOT THE LAWSUIT.

The problem is the IGNORANCE of people such as those in this thread, who were so eager to bitch and complain about something they didn't even bother to read about (let's pick an easy target, like lawyers or the courts).


Neg rep for all the idiots above, a giant FUCK YOU to the thread starter, who was more concerned with starting shit in this threat than actually reading about what happened.

If u guys want to know whats wrong with society, look in a goddamn mirror.

Once again: fuck you.

[blownmotor]

hope that whole family dies for that one

[ryguy]

Look on Google. I cannot find any mention of Altimas having burst into flames at a higher percentage than any other make of car in the past. There are, however, many mentions of cars such as the Ford Crown Vic and the Jeep Liberty having this problem. If the problem did truly exist and wasn't fabricated over grief or greed, I'm sure there would be more out there about this "problem".

[OptionZero]

http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-55-nissan-altima-fire.htm

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/07/altima-recall.html

Thats just two examples after googlinge for "nissan altima fire"

[azndoc]

He's just money hungry that's all.

Seriously he's not getting that type of money.

He probably just threw out that amount for the publicity of it all.

It sucks for the guy but its just stupid what he's asking for and accusing.

[OptionZero]

It's part of litigation strategy
In California, if you do not accept a settlement offer and subsequently win less than what that offer was, you must pay court costs.

Starting with a high initial demand provides a starting point to whittle down during negotiation.

Thats gamesmanship but likely will result in an agreement that is faster and cheaper than a full trial.

But more to the point, people suck.

[B Love]

That sucks for everyone man. Not nissans fault. If you hit any car that bad near the tank or like they will rupture they arent indestructable or something

[Laxman]

Litigation is the reason why things are so friggin expensive these days. Ultimately, its the consumers who are going to pay for all the retarded litigations.

$100 million is "slightly" excessive. The widowed should get their due, but trying to rake in the big bucks like that just because is de de de.

[Koopa Troopa]

Someone TiVO the Judge Judy episode for me please.

[chituntang]

I just got to say

This is America for you!!!

I did read the post and I am pretty piss off by people giving -21 points. I got a comment saying I did not read the post. WTF??? I mean, I am sorry for the family lost their children, but what's the point of suing the company that make the car they were in? I will never, ever heard of anything like this in Hong Kong, where I came from. I am not saying everybody in the US do something like this, but it would just not happen in HK. People take the responsibility over there. In this situation, is it Nissan's fault? No! It is the street racers. If Nissan is getting sued, I think they may as well sue the DOT, because they allow the car to hit the market. Give me another negative rep for me not understanding the "point" of this post.

[CrimsonRockett]

This is a load of shit.

I got t-boned at 50mph in my old S13 on the driver's side door...

...and I WALKED away from it.

I hope he ends up with nothing for being a complete douche.

Sorry for being such a dick, but with that amount, it seems like he just feels like cashing in on his loss.

[chituntang]

Oh, one more thing. There was a guy riding a Ferrari in HK about a month ago, killed himself because the car caught on fire and he was burned to death. The reason he could not escape is because Aluminum has a lower melting point and as soon as it started to burn, the door could not open. Did his family sued Ferrari for that? No!!!! Damn I am piss right now.

[OptionZero]

Hong Kong isn't America. If you think it's better, more power to you. Get the fuck out of America.

If you are piss now u should be in the bathroom in front of the toilet, not in front of your computer.

[MrChow]

You guys you even know how much it cost to produce a car??
That mean the everything from the beginning to rolling them out on the lot?

On avg 20 million. I forget all the number right now but it's up there.

[Matej]

wow, there's alot of knee-jerk hate in this thread.

the man lost his wife and two children. it's not like he spilled hot coffee on his lap.
It's a terrible tragedy, but at the same time it's kind of hard to feel sorry for someone whose mind became clouded with greed so shortly after losing his family, what do you need money for after you lose your entire family, seriously, you're alone, is money really going to make you happy and forget about everything, and although the lawyer has a lot to do with it, so many families die in car accidents every year, and the family members left behind don't even hire lawyers to pursue the case and get money for their personal gain because it's just something that you deal with emotionally, not financially, if anything like this happened to me and I hope it never does, I hope I'd be locked in my house crying instead of running around hiring lawyers and trying to make everyone feel sorry for me to milk my tragedy for all I can and more, from the article I get the feel that $$$ > grief.

[chituntang]

Hong Kong isn't America. If you think it's better, more power to you. Get the fuck out of America.

If you are piss now u should be in the bathroom in front of the toilet, not in front of your computer.


Hey, Fu*ker, I did not say I hate America at all. I did not say it is better. I am just putting example here to say how stupid this is. But if you think Nissan getting sued is right, please give a statement here to not just tell me, but to all the member here. I read what you wrote above, and I totally agree with you. But people make the country and that's why I have that comment.

To all the people that gave me neg rep, give me a reason of why I got them. Did I say anything wrong? I thought we all love Nissan here, that's why we are here. And now we get some lawyer that would "help" the family which just have a huge loss to get something back in the wrong way. This remind me of those McDonald coffee case, the kid hurt himself running are Walmart case, old man set his RV at cruise control and went to the back to make coffee case, etc, and that's why I wrote that comment. I did take BUSA class that answered why they win the case, but where is the common sense like hot coffee will burn you? These comments are toward those people without common sense, not to America.

[j4d3_h4v0k]

Ok at the risk of makin this thread a broken record he's gonna sue nissan cuz its pointless to try to sue the penniless scum bags that actually caused this tragedy someone, more than likely the lawyer pointed out that there had been other cases where altimas caught fire and that they had some evidence that it was a faulty fuel system. Imho this instance was probly not caused by a faulty system but by an idiot wit more horsepower than brain cells, and I'm not saying I haven't pushed beyond what should be done on a public road I'm sure we've all gone a lil faster then we should have but most people have the common sense to not go 100+, or however fast he was goin at the time, on a road with cross traffic. Bottom line this is entirely the two dumbasses who were racings fault not nissans but like my friend from hong kong said this is america land where money fixes al our problems so he will get a nice settlement from nissan just to keep it out of the spotlight I hope it can give him some solice where as I hope the individuals that are responsible get 3 consecutive life sentences each for the 3 lives they ended prematurely.
Thoughts and best wishes to the family of the victims of yet another senseless tragedy

[OptionZero]

Hey, Fu*ker, I did not say I hate America at all. I did not say it is better. I am just putting example here to say how stupid this is. But if you think Nissan getting sued is right, please give a statement here to not just tell me, but to all the member here. I read what you wrote above, and I totally agree with you. But people make the country and that's why I have that comment.

To all the people that gave me neg rep, give me a reason of why I got them. Did I say anything wrong? I thought we all love Nissan here, that's why we are here. And now we get some lawyer that would "help" the family which just have a huge loss to get something back in the wrong way. This remind me of those McDonald coffee case, the kid hurt himself running are Walmart case, old man set his RV at cruise control and went to the back to make coffee case, etc, and that's why I wrote that comment. I did take BUSA class that answered why they win the case, but where is the common sense like hot coffee will burn you? These comments are toward those people without common sense, not to America.

where is the common sense that you shouldn't sell coffee heated up enough to cause 3rd degree burns?

seriously, shut the fuck up, you know nothing. I'm begging you, shut the fuck up.

you clearly were not paying attention to whatever shit classes you were taking

[ixfxi]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p4rVjs7C4EM


WOOOOOOOPS

time to sue

[ixfxi]

http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-55-nissan-altima-fire.htm

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/07/altima-recall.html

Thats just two examples after googlinge for "nissan altima fire"

good thing i own a 240 and a miata


those are much, much safer cars.

both dont have airbags too! so if a fire starts, i dont have anything that will "fan the fire" :-)


assuming i dont get mashed into potatoes in either of the cars

[aznpoopy]

Litigation is the reason why things are so friggin expensive these days. Ultimately, its the consumers who are going to pay for all the retarded litigations.

$100 million is "slightly" excessive. The widowed should get their due, but trying to rake in the big bucks like that just because is de de de.

can you people read the responses before commenting

show me your statistics demonstrating how litigation is making everything expensive nowadays. do you realize there is LESS trial litigation now than there was in the 50s and 60s? where is this litigation 'explosion' everyone is complaining about?

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180363092

http://www.corpreform.com/corpreform/questions_answers/index.html

I’ve heard that a “tort tax” costs a family of four about $3,200 a year in higher prices for products and services.
Ever hear that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics? Well, that $3,200-for-a-family-of-four statistic is based upon a study that found that about 2% of America’s GDP is related to the legal system. Tort reformers use the study to argue that if we could get rid of those expenses, it would be like giving an extra $800 to every American, or $3,200 to a family of four. On its face, that sounds logical, but it really isn’t.

For example, why stop with the legal industry? Since America spends $248 billion a year on advertising, let's gut the ad industry, too - giving another $3,400 to a family of four. And since we’re on a roll, let’s just get rid of the other 96% of the GDP, which would give a family of four over $200,000 per year! That's just silly, and so is the "tort tax" argument.

But there’s another flaw in the “tort tax” argument, too. My doctor recently finished paying off his copier, which was almost $700 a month. But instead of lowering his fees to pass the savings on to his clients, he’s taking that $8,400 a year home to his family, like most people would.

The “tort tax” argument asks you to believe that every time a business reduces its expenses that it will lower prices by the same amount instead of enjoying a higher profit.

Do you?

did you read the initial article that stated they asked for a large number to generate a response from nissan, or how you ask for more than you get as a high starting point in settlement? NOBODY EXPECTS TO WIN $100 MILLION.

i'd advise the lot of you to stop spouting 'tort reform' bullshit corporate propaganda designed to protect corporate bottom lines and start thinking critically. you have a brain for a reason. USE IT

[KA24DESOneThree]

There is a lot of idiocy in this thread.

1. The car caught on fire after an incredibly hard impact. Considering we have artillery rounds that don't expend the kind of energy the cars underwent, the fire is understandable. Nissan's engineers CANNOT possibly design a gas tank that is infallibly strong. Everyone driving an internal-combustion-engined car is driving a car that is powered by fucking explosions, so it's a no-brainer that the fuel may burn or explode in the case of an accident. Jesus Christ, it's not hard to comprehend.

2. Business has a concern for its consumers. A customer who buys their product once is nice, but a customer who buys a product of theirs every two years is better. Serious flaws will sour customers and lose the business profit. You're just fucking stupid if you think that businesses like to release flawed products. Flaws reduce customer confidence and erode loyalty.

The fires in the intake of the Altima have NO relevance to this case. The fires causes by low oil due to excessive ring wear have NO relevance to this case.

The coffee case? The asphalt you drive and walk on gets hot enough to cause SECOND-DEGREE burns. Should we ban that, too? Or should we just know damn well enough not to trip? Coffee's proven to taste better at a high temperature, and it obviously stays hotter longer if it's hotter to begin with. If you're too stupid to keep the cup upright, it's not the coffee maker's fault.

The telephone booth case? Jesus Christ, designers of a fucking telephone booth are not expecting someone to have to open it in a millisecond to get out of the way of a vehicle careening toward it.

Edit: ... and what the fuck is that copier shit above? That was an asset that had finally been paid off and nothing more. You don't spread the $700/month across the period he's paying it off, you spread it (meaning the total paid, not $700/mo) across the lifetime of the copier. Without the copier, his fees would probably be higher because he'd have to pay someone to go to Kinko's and do the copying at a higher cost per page, because Kinko's has to make a profit too. He's actually saving himself money, which he can pass on to his customers.

Big business keeps your income where it is and keeps your costs low.

[nevaland9]

most cars will catch on fire if hit in the rear...i watched something on how only cop cars get a thick wall made of some kind of powder placed inbetween the gas tank and the cabin of the car so on impact the wall explodes and spreads a powder all over to douse the flames....

step your game up nissan

[axiomatik]

god, there is so much ignorance in this thread.

Nissan is not "being sued for street racing". Street racing has nothing to do with the case.

Nissan is being sued for a potentially flawed fuel system design. As was mentioned in the article, 2 of the victims survived the impact, but were then killed by the fire. If the car hadn't burst into flames, maybe this guy would have some of his family still.

$100,000,000 is a lot of money, but large sums of money are the only way to get corporations to notice and do something about it. If the guy had sued for $20,000 Nissan would probably just pay it and carry on, never even looking at the design of the gas tank.

The spilled coffee case (http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbusters-free/MB_mcdonalds.htm) (link aznpoopy posted above) is a perfect example. Sure, the way the case is generally presented in the media, it sounds frivolous. But the coffee was served at 180-190 degrees (which causes 3rd degree burns in 2-7 seconds), and the woman received 3rd degree burns over 16% of her body. Not only that, but McDonalds KNEW that their coffee was excessively hot, and knew that it was seriously burning customers, for TEN YEARS before that case. Over 700 people recieved serious burns in their genital region between 1982 and 1992. Do you think that is acceptable? How would you like your genitals to be permanently disfigured because McDonalds was serving coffee that it knew was excessively hot, and knew that it caused serious injuries? Guess what, after that case, McDonalds now serves their coffee at a lower temperature, 158 degrees, which is still undrinkable at that temp, but at least has a much lower risk of disfiguring their customers.

[KA24DESOneThree]

It is still frivolous. If you're carrying a pot full of boiling water, aren't you careful? If you spill it on yourself, the only reason you can't point fingers is because you made it yourself.

I frequently make tea and instant miso soup from a heater faucet that dispenses 190* water.

I think it's acceptable that McDonalds sells hundreds of millions of cups of coffee and under 800 people are stupid enough to spill it on their laps.

Notice that almost all of the burns are in the lap area. Are we supposed to drive and drink a scalding hot liquid? Uh... no.

Common sense, it is lacking.

[Bobafreak]

This story is outrageous but you guys are missing things they didnt put in this report. One the lady who was struck shouldnt have been driving due to the fact she was not a citizen to begin with. Hence no drivers license no insurance. This happend 2 blocks away, 2 Instead of stoping she decided to try and beat them across and she did not win. I tell you i hate the media for covering some parts of this story. Not saying this justifys her to be killed but the smart thing to do would have let them go first since she did see them coming up ahead. Really i dont see this going that far.

[aznpoopy]

It is still frivolous. If you're carrying a pot full of boiling water, aren't you careful? If you spill it on yourself, the only reason you can't point fingers is because you made it yourself.


the big difference there is

you are not selling the coffee to millions of people each day that you know are drinking the coffee on the go (admitted in McD's research documents) and are simutaeneously not aware of the non-standard temperature to which you are heating your coffee. (the industry standard was lower)

3rd degree burns aren't ouch oops i'll run that shit under cold water burns
its fucking destruction of the upper layers of skin with tissue damage down to the bone, requiring skin grafting and other lovely expensive medical procedures to treat

immm have to side with optionzero and say that is not an acceptable risk for mcdonalds to be taking when it would be ridiculously easy for them to lower their coffee temps 20 degrees or so to to the 150F range, which exponentially reducues the risk of serious burns and costs absolutely nothing.

[OptionZero]

If you spiill your coffee and get a stain and get laughed at at work, all good.

But I don't see how anyone can say that surgery and skin grafts are an acceptable result of spilling your coffee.

What if you dropped a spoon and it sliced off your toe and contaminated the wound with lead because the spoon company made the spoons ridiculously sharp edged and made from poisonous metal.

[ixfxi]

the big difference there is

you are not selling the coffee to millions of people each day that you know are drinking the coffee on the go (admitted in McD's research documents) and are simutaeneously not aware of the non-standard temperature to which you are heating your coffee. (the industry standard was lower)

ANYTIME micky-deez gets sued, its good news to me. you wont catch me defending that shitty company. they could sell SCOLDING HOT FIRE or ice cold coffee, and i still wouldnt care. mcdonalds should be out of business, but yet for some reason.. they're still here. its one of those things i just pretend doesnt exist.

i met some dude at the alignment shop that had a dodge caravan or some similar type of car, and while the car was on the lift i saw the gas tank which he said "he had already replaced" at only 60k!!!! i was thinking to myself, wtf??? 60k? thats crazy. THE TANK IS MADE OF PLASTIC. whats even worse, the new tank, which was installed at the dealership, was TOUCHING the chassis and rubbing.

in a fight, plastic doesnt beat metal - metal wins. now, if nissan does a fuckup like that.. i can understand. but my nissan, atleast my nissan.. has a metal tank. i really dont want to know whats in the new altima, nor do i want to know whats in the new gtr. i am quite happy having a metal tank though, and can only hope the newer nissans have the same.

[OptionZero]

mcdonalds deserves to get sued for all their lame "urban" commerials

[racer98]

most cars will catch on fire if hit in the rear...i watched something on how only cop cars get a thick wall made of some kind of powder placed inbetween the gas tank and the cabin of the car so on impact the wall explodes and spreads a powder all over to douse the flames....

step your game up nissan

I see your point but I think its up to NHTSB & DOT to be respoinsiable for this as they are the ones who set the requirements for the standards , Lawers will have a feild day with this case in a court, you have people who have been f-ed over due to GM quality & Ford Shoddy product and who are generally pissed at auto makers as they are fincially raped by the car payments and generally jurys want to thow the book at carmakers.

If you have standards that are set for 35mph / 40mph for a standardfront and rear impacts and side impacts are with in that range as the same for front and rear impacts , how can an automaker be responsiable for a side impact at 80mph ???????

does not make sence !:jerkit:

[racer98]

This story is outrageous but you guys are missing things they didnt put in this report. One the lady who was struck shouldnt have been driving due to the fact she was not a citizen to begin with. Hence no drivers license no insurance. This happend 2 blocks away, 2 Instead of stoping she decided to try and beat them across and she did not win. I tell you i hate the media for covering some parts of this story. Not saying this justifys her to be killed but the smart thing to do would have let them go first since she did see them coming up ahead. Really i dont see this going that far.

I agree, I will be watching this case very closely, as its lawyer has no basis to involve Nissan in this. This is really important you added this , wow who knew the media likes to exaggerate the story and omit important details.

[exitspeed]

So many of these stories about people suing. Just so sad. I do feel for the family, but Nissan is not at fault here, and that much money won't replace them.

Such a sad society we live in. And like Mike said, McDonald's is part of it.

You know what else this effects? Car design. It's BS like this that make our cars turn into these ugly safe bubbles. High belt lines, high hood profiles, and heavy cars are all due directly related to shit like this. Because designers are forced to design within these gay ass dimensions to accommodate safety systems.

[Bobafreak]

So many of these stories about people suing. Just so sad. I do feel for the family, but Nissan is not at fault here, and that much money won't replace them.

Such a sad society we live in. And like Mike said, McDonald's is part of it.

You know what else this effects? Car design. It's BS like this that make our cars turn into these ugly safe bubbles. High belt lines, high hood profiles, and heavy cars are all due directly related to shit like this. Because designers are forced to design within these gay ass dimensions to accommodate safety systems.

no hondas always have been ugly. :D

[aznpoopy]

I see your point but I think its up to NHTSB & DOT to be respoinsiable for this as they are the ones who set the requirements for the standards , Lawers will have a feild day with this case in a court, you have people who have been f-ed over due to GM quality & Ford Shoddy product and who are generally pissed at auto makers as they are fincially raped by the car payments and generally jurys want to thow the book at carmakers.


read my previous response

just because NHTSB & DOT set standards for safety doesn't mean automakers are always in full compliance with those standards. companies have lied their way past governmental safety standards in the past. products liability cases are one of the few ways to uncover that deception.

i am not saying that is what happened here. but that is precisely what discovery and pre-trial proceedings are for. if their claim is indeed completely meritless, it will be thrown out by one of the many judicial mechanisms that filter through frivolous claims before it goes to trial.

[B Love]

I dont think its Nissans fault. Any car that gets hit that hard is gonna be in the same situation. Unless you have some kind of indestructable super car

[hijack3d]

Wow... I thought this was a hoax... When I saw that number I immediately thought of Austin Powers also.. haha...But, how friggin' depressing.

You know, it's sad. It's a horrible accident and it shouldn't have happened. But retribution should be sought against the people who caused the accident. You really have to think why did they choose to sue Nissan? Because they're bigger, have more money, and will probably settle to get them off their back...

But why stop there? Why not sue the street racers?
Or the County Police for not being more proactive towards street racing?
The DMV for giving these guys licenses?
California for providing an environment suitable for fires?
Al Que'da for being the target of US forces, thus drawing on the economy and perhaps leading to these people being at the trailer park at that exact moment?
The US of A for not having a competent enough system to keep convicted individuals from hiding in Mexico?
The public schooling system or the city for not providing enough "appealing" alternatives?
The parents for poor discipline?
Or the crash test industry for not being inventive enough to think of such an incident?
Or Twinkies and Cocoa-Cola for driving an already-depressed man into murdering political officials, becoming a highly publicized case that ultimately resulted in the coining of the "Twinkie Defense," which could've possibly led to a series of otherwise frivolous defenses and lawsuits that could've then inspired this?

So maybe I'm bored, and a few (er, most) of those were the result of this boredom... but this case makes me shake my head like a Poloroid picture. The attorney was quoted saying he compared the Nissan Altima to the Ford Pinto. That, in itself, well... no conclusive evidence, yet entertaining enough to make me write a long response.

[Antihero983]

http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-55-nissan-altima-fire.htm

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/07/altima-recall.html

Thats just two examples after googlinge for "nissan altima fire"

and neither of them have to do with the design of the fuel system like the person in the topic said.......and i have yet to see hear of a problem with the design of the fuel system other than the topic of this thread.....

[KA24DESOneThree]

The coffee-drinkers ARE aware that the coffee is hot. It's no one's job to babysit adults who should be using their brains. Don't spill on yourself, and don't have problems. It's really that easy.

I know what third degree burns are, as I've had them between my fingers... as a result of my stupidity.

OZ, I would absolutely blame myself for dropping a spoon which resulted in my toe getting cut off and me getting lead poisoning. I have a duty as a consumer to research the products I buy. Nothing is forced upon me.

[OptionZero]

do you research every product you buy? the shirt on your back, the pencil on your desk?

Manufacturers have responsibilities as well. Certainly, there are idiots out there, no one believes in that more than me, but both consumer and industry need to accept their duties.

[Bobafreak]

like i said if she was smart she would have not tried to beat people racing on the street. It wouldnt even result to this matter. She should not even be driving to begin with!

[racer98]

Twinkies and Cocoa-Cola for driving an already-depressed man into murdering political officials, becoming a highly publicized case that ultimately resulted in the coining of the "Twinkie Defense," which could've possibly led to a series of otherwise frivolous defenses and lawsuits that could've then inspired this?.


:loco: that one takes the cake.:tweak:

[exitspeed]

do you research every product you buy? the shirt on your back, the pencil on your desk?

Manufacturers have responsibilities as well. Certainly, there are idiots out there, no one believes in that more than me, but both consumer and industry need to accept their duties.

Are you kidding? Americans don't take responsibility for their actions. Blame blame blame.

[aznpoopy]

Are you kidding? Americans don't take responsibility for their actions. Blame blame blame.

that's what 'contributory negligence' is for

and you are right, everyone is always trying to get out of their responsibilities. that includes american corporations that fuck up shit, injure/kill/maim people and then try to get out of any and all liability by flexing corporate muscle/money and starving out the little guy. it happens alot and its fucking disgusting.

once again im not saying thats what happened here, but everyone should remember that lawsuits are not only brought by greedy indivudals seeking profit. sometimes people are actually hurt because someone did something stupid.

[eastcoastS14]

WTF!!! I bet i can find a reason to sue somebody right now.

you can sue anyone for anything....its just a question of whether or not you will win. This case will be settled before trial and if it goes to trial they will not win, Nissan will say that no car is designed to withstand impacts over 75mph and that the fuel explosion was tragic but inevitable due to the actions of the other drivers

[hijack3d]

:loco: that one takes the cake.:tweak:

I blame Starbucks and Xtube at work.

[Bobafreak]

im suing anybody whos thinking about suing right now.

[axiomatik]

It is still frivolous. If you're carrying a pot full of boiling water, aren't you careful? If you spill it on yourself, the only reason you can't point fingers is because you made it yourself.

I frequently make tea and instant miso soup from a heater faucet that dispenses 190* water.

I think it's acceptable that McDonalds sells hundreds of millions of cups of coffee and under 800 people are stupid enough to spill it on their laps.

Notice that almost all of the burns are in the lap area. Are we supposed to drive and drink a scalding hot liquid? Uh... no.

Common sense, it is lacking.

what does the coffee case have to do with being careful? just because someone spills something, does not mean they weren't careful. accidents happen. some of the cases involved McD employees spilling the coffee on customers. The problem is that McD KNEW that their coffee was unreasonably hot, and knew that they were seriously hurting people, and did nothing to correct the problem. Also, don't assume everyone is being a dumbass and driving with the coffee between legs. A couple of months ago, I was sitting in a meeting with my coffee on the table. They guy next to me accidently knocked the cup over, right into my lap. You better believe that I would be seeking compensation if I had bought it from McD's and it caused 3rd degree burns. What about people who were drinking the coffee in the dining room? say their 6 year old daughter knocks the cup over and into her lap. is it the 6 year old's fault that whe gets 3rd degree burns all over her body?

the fact of the matter is that the McD was knowingly and unnecessarily putting their customers in danger of serious injury.

[s13coupedrfter]

Yet another fine example of opertunists at a time of tragedy. Shameless.

[ryguy]

and neither of them have to do with the design of the fuel system like the person in the topic said.......and i have yet to see hear of a problem with the design of the fuel system other than the topic of this thread.....

Exactly what I was going to say. One of them has to do with faulty piston rings and one has to do with people ashing their cigarette into their cabin air filter. The fact is that any problem with the gas tank on the altima is fabricated and does not exist.

[KRPS13DEMON]

i say sue the the gas station that sold them that very flameable shit... oh wait sue the middle east for bringing that gas to america .....no wait just sue your parents for bringing you into this world because we all die someday and if you were not born you would not have to die ...save the planet ...kill yourself

[OptionZero]

Exactly what I was going to say. One of them has to do with faulty piston rings and one has to do with people ashing their cigarette into their cabin air filter. The fact is that any problem with the gas tank on the altima is fabricated and does not exist.

Are you a Nissan engineer or a party to any discovery?

I think your credibility is fabricated and does not exist.


it's so easy to bitch about shit you're not involved in

[Bobafreak]

^very true just for that im suing you for thinking of what i was going to say.

[eastcoastS14]

lol here ya go....one of many

http://www.dumb-lawsuits.com/archives/

[ryguy]

I don't pretend to have credibility. I just challenge anybody to find anything about this. Theres lots of info on other cars with faulty gas tanks, even new ones. Theres nothing on the Altima anywhere.

[OptionZero]

The lack of information on google about the problem does not mean it does not exist.

During discovery the plaintiffs will undoubtedly explain what their theory for the problem is, and if they're right, then they'll have found a problem that might have other wise gone unnoticed until ...well...more altimas burned up.

Thats why we have litigation. It provides the opportunity to identify and correct problems where a company might not choose to acknowledge or fix.

If the lawsuit is frivolous, it will be dismissed. There are quite a few mechanisms these days for getting rid of meritless cases (summary judgment, demurrer, blah blah blah i hate civ pro).

[Antihero983]

Are you a Nissan engineer or a party to any discovery?

I think your credibility is fabricated and does not exist.


it's so easy to bitch about shit you're not involved in

oh? and whats your credibility? NEITHER of those issues has to do with the fuel system.

and i have yet to hear of an altima going up in flames from a fault in the fuel system or its design.

whats my credibility? im a subie factory tech, and im constantly talking to other dealrship techs (i do alot of used cars) and not once have i seen or heard of it. also, ive looked up technical service bulletins and there have been NONE regarding any fuel system issues.

so until you have PROOF, i'd let it be.

[OptionZero]

why do i need proof? I'm not bringing the lawsuit.

The plaintiffs are the ones that need proof, and whether they do or not will be determined by the court.

You're the one that said the problem was made up- I just said that conclusion wasn't warranted.

The lack of TSB or grumblings in the dealers you talk to does not prove anything.

[Antihero983]

why do i need proof? I'm not bringing the lawsuit.

The plaintiffs are the ones that need proof, and whether they do or not will be determined by the court.

You're the one that said the problem was made up- I just said that conclusion wasn't warranted.

The lack of TSB or grumblings in the dealers you talk to does not prove anything.

i fail to see how experience with a vehicle is a "grumbling".

until i see proof, i doubt its true. otherwise there would have been a recall on it.

usually the manufacturer is first to find any faults in the design of a vehicle that has already made it to production, so if they havent said anything about it, and the dealerships havent heard about it, there's a pretty good chance it isnt true. not saying it cant possibly happen, but its a pretty damned small chance.


...wait....why is this thread still open?

[babowc]

Jesus..
People getting all bitchy over a tragic accident and stupid lawsuits.. lol.
ceases to amaze me.

[aznpoopy]

until i see proof, i doubt its true.

well that's just common sense

so its not surprising the court works the same way.

it is the plaintiff's burden to demonstrate a prima facie case of a design defect. if the plaintiff fails to do so, it is unlikely that aspect of his case will survive a motion for summary judgment.

so what's the problem?

[KA24DESOneThree]

A spill is carelessness in one form or another.

The people who got coffee dropped in their lap should've gone in rather than trust high-school dropouts to serve their food through a window. They were careless and unduly trusting of McDonalds employees.

The coworker who spilled coffee? He wasn't being careful. By buying coffee whose heat level is unknown and then putting it in a situation that can result in it scalding you, you're not being careful.

So what if they knew there were people getting scalded? Fuck, I'm sure that people are complaining to dealerships about checking their dipsticks and burning themselves, or who are opening radiator caps and getting scalded. They weren't careful.

When I'm working on my car, I get scrapes and gouges because I was being careless. A couple years ago, I wasn't paying attention and knocked an acetylene bottle into a 964 Turbo. I bandage my wounds, and I offered to pay for the dent in the Turbo. If I fuck up, you can bet your ass I'm the one to fix it.

OZ, I research important products and I actually read where everything I buy comes from. If it goes in my mouth or can produce a failure that will hurt me, I check it over. If I don't trust it, I don't buy it... period.

[ZenkiCam]

"The Altima was broadsided on Parkway Drive as it came out of a trailer park and burst into flames."


They're just looking to get a quick settlement.


werd,


just a couple rednecks trying to get rich quick... :squint:

[nightshiftgarage]

why are any of us surprisd about this. we all know theres greedy bastards all around us everyday. not even in a situation like this,

have you ever been somewhere where they are giving away free shit, some people not only want their share , but they want everyone elses too just because its free . knowing they dont need it.

[Antihero983]

well that's just common sense

so its not surprising the court works the same way.

it is the plaintiff's burden to demonstrate a prima facie case of a design defect. if the plaintiff fails to do so, it is unlikely that aspect of his case will survive a motion for summary judgment.

so what's the problem?

um...i dunno actually.....

do you?

[ixfxi]

oh? and whats your credibility? NEITHER of those issues has to do with the fuel system.

and i have yet to hear of an altima going up in flames from a fault in the fuel system or its design.

whats my credibility? im a subie factory tech, and im constantly talking to other dealrship techs (i do alot of used cars) and not once have i seen or heard of it. also, ive looked up technical service bulletins and there have been NONE regarding any fuel system issues.

so until you have PROOF, i'd let it be.

i think you're misunderstanding what mr optionzero is trying to say

his point isnt to prove or disprove the case, its just to say the reason why these legal situations exist.

while you may be a tech, which is fine.... the point here is that no one can say. just because they sue for a rediculous amount, doesnt mean they're going to win a dime. it all comes down to what is found during the case.

it always comes down to facts. if nissan is going to get hit hard with a serious lawsuit and penalty, then there would have to be a serious change in that product design. just because there is no recall, doesnt mean that there is no problem. in fact, a lot of cars or products in general can be dangerous................... but it really comes down to the amount of people that will be effected by that problem. just like a computer program that has security leaks or bugs, how many people will actually find the bug and exploit it?

[firelizard]

If they were really just suing for so much in order to bring attention to the cause, they'd donate the 100 million (or whatever absurd amount would get given to them) to charity.


Odds of that happening? Exponential.

They're doing it for the money. Obviously they're not going to come right out and say it, but I believe that that is the bottom line.

Also, like others have mentioned, Nissan's designs have to be approved by various 3rd parties before going into production. Are those parties being sued, despite being directly linked to allowing the so-called unsafely engineered fuel system onto the streets?

Was the family aware of the unsafe fuel system before hand, or was that something they looked up on a whim after the accident. Did they just decide that cars that run on flammable fluids should never explode in accidents, and any that does is unsafely engineered? Or did they know before hand that the Nissan Altima was an unsafe car to drive but chose to drive it regardless?

[Antihero983]

i think you're misunderstanding what mr optionzero is trying to say

his point isnt to prove or disprove the case, its just to say the reason why these legal situations exist.

while you may be a tech, which is fine.... the point here is that no one can say. just because they sue for a rediculous amount, doesnt mean they're going to win a dime. it all comes down to what is found during the case.

it always comes down to facts. if nissan is going to get hit hard with a serious lawsuit and penalty, then there would have to be a serious change in that product design. just because there is no recall, doesnt mean that there is no problem. in fact, a lot of cars or products in general can be dangerous................... but it really comes down to the amount of people that will be effected by that problem. just like a computer program that has security leaks or bugs, how many people will actually find the bug and exploit it?

ah gotcha. good point.

[OptionZero]

A spill is carelessness in one form or another.

The people who got coffee dropped in their lap should've gone in rather than trust high-school dropouts to serve their food through a window. They were careless and unduly trusting of McDonalds employees.

The coworker who spilled coffee? He wasn't being careful. By buying coffee whose heat level is unknown and then putting it in a situation that can result in it scalding you, you're not being careful.

So what if they knew there were people getting scalded? Fuck, I'm sure that people are complaining to dealerships about checking their dipsticks and burning themselves, or who are opening radiator caps and getting scalded. They weren't careful.

When I'm working on my car, I get scrapes and gouges because I was being careless. A couple years ago, I wasn't paying attention and knocked an acetylene bottle into a 964 Turbo. I bandage my wounds, and I offered to pay for the dent in the Turbo. If I fuck up, you can bet your ass I'm the one to fix it.

OZ, I research important products and I actually read where everything I buy comes from. If it goes in my mouth or can produce a failure that will hurt me, I check it over. If I don't trust it, I don't buy it... period.

That's awesome. I truly wish the world were full of people like you who spend the time and effort to make informed choices.

Unfortunately, its not reasonable to expect people to be as reasonable as you- really, people aren't that good.

As a law student, I am learning how unneeded I would be if people weren't lazy, ignorant, and generally stupid.

It's people like you that exceptions to the rule, rather than the norm (of incompetence).

[SusanR34]

Starting with a high initial demand provides a starting point to whittle down during negotiation.

Thats gamesmanship but likely will result in an agreement that is faster and cheaper than a full trial.

I agree with this statement. Nissan would never take a case like this and feed it to the press. The attorney is putting this out in everyones face searching for people who have had similar situations with Altima's. The more people he can have come forward, the more his case will build. If he can get "X" amount of people to come forward, he can request the judge claim action to Nissan, thus "recall". Recall does not usually occur unless there is some type of huge law suit.

The best way to grab attention is with money and street racing!!!!

My heart goes out to the man who lost his family. I can't not even begin to understand how tragic life would be in his situation. To me no amount of money could ever replace family.