2007-2008 NBA Season thread [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

OptionZero

10-27-2007, 11:55 PM

Sweet, it's about time. I'm going to the Warriors open practice tomorrow nite (Free, 530 at the Oracle for those interested) and the home opener against the Jazz on tuesday.

If there's any Warriors fans...check out www.goldenstateofmind.com, i'm a moderator of the diary section there. We rock.

My forecast by tiers, since exact rankings are pointlessly random.

-West-
Championship Tier: Phoenix, Dallas, San Antonio

Best of the west until proven otherwise, which means best in the NBA. Wouldn't be surprised if any of them came out on top, but the most vulnerable team is Dallas. They won a ton of games last year but were relatively fortunate in close games and had no major injuries. They did little to change the team and might have a psychological breakdown from the past two postseasons.

San Antonio is the best team because it maximizes the talent it has with a terrific system. They played their top 3 guys the least (about 5 minutes less for Parker/Manu/Duncan) compared to Phx or Dal, so they concede a couple regular season wins in exchange for postseason health. Repeat likely.

Phoenix went even smaller this year, which is either brilliant or stupid. Grant Hill will be useful as a backup point forward, hopefully spelling Nash more. Marion to PF will also rejuvinate him. Amare's knee bears watching but as long as he's good to go, the Suns will run past opponents all year.

Contender Tier: Denver, Houston, Utah
Any of those teams would be top tier in the East, but suffer from poor geography. Denver is the most vulnerable, their talent is high but their parts don't quite fit. Their frontcourt is dominating but fragile; Iverson and Carmelo don't quite go together. Neither has 3P range, preferring to operate in the midrange area. Carmelo is lightyears more efficient, but Iverson needs the ball . Without a good distributing PG to babysit, it will be rough. JR Smith is an essential piece because he has 3P range but is missing several neurons up top. Result? Too much talent not to make the playoffs, too volatile to take the next step. If they fell to the lower tier i wouldn't be surprised.

Utah is also a flawed team since Kirilenko is the only great defender in the lineup. Neither Okur nor Boozer play defense (they dont block any shots, horrible for bigs), which means Kirilenko will have to cover for everyone's deficiencies. Offensively they execute the pick and roll ridiculously well and have a true low post option, which makes them highly efficient. Lack of a 3P shooter at SG will prevent them from making "the leap", but they're otherwise a force.

Houston is interesting. They have two superstars and now the best cast they've ever had around Mcgrady and Ming. Adleman will install an open offense and up the tempo, and also get the most out of Bonzi Wells as a 3rd option. Scola is a productive veteran Euro that passes and shoots from the elbow extended well, so he is a good complement to Ming at Pf, something they've lacked. Francis and Alston suck, and Mike James is a shoot-first PG, but McGrady has sufficint point-forward skills to make it work, meaning James can just be another floor-spacer. Ming is a good passer from the high post, but I don't know if he'll be able to keep up the pace. Health is always an issue, but the talent is there. This year there should be enough pieces to get out of the first round, regardless of who they face. McGrady just ran out of excuses.

Fringe Playoff Tier: Golden State, Memphis, LA Lakers, New Orleans
New Orleans is the best squad here. Chris Paul is a beast, they rebound the ball, and Chandler defends the paint. Peja and MoPete finally give them some shooters. Julian Wright is a dynamic wildcard. Butler and MoPete give them perimeter defenders. Depth at PG/C is a big problem, so they need to pray Paul is healthy and Chandler/West don't get hurt. They should come out of this pack.

Golden State...sigh. They could win 50 or 35 and I wouldn't be surprised, which is why I'm picking somewhere around 42-44 and another 7/8th seed. Richardson only played 51 games and had an average PER of 15, so I don't get why people are citing his loss. SG is well taken care of among Ellis, Azubuike, and Belinelli (or even Stephen Jack). Biedrins will blow up this year; Patrick O'Bryant might finally give us a backup C. Barnes, Croshere, Hudson give us veteran depth; Wright and Lasme provide energy in the frontcourt. The pieces are there, but Baron's health is the issue. If he plays 75 games we take a playoff spot, any more and we watch for ping pong balls again. Ellis and the TPE mean Mullin has assets at the deadline, so a trade is virtually assured (Artest to the Bay to play PF).

I had Memphis ranked real high based on the raw talent level, but now I realize its just that...raw. Offensive firepower is there, but the defensive scheme is not. Iavaroni has to get them to buy into some sort of plan (best thing would be to funnel penetration to Gasol/Milicic ala the Spurs), otherwise they'll have lots of highlights and lots of losses. They have depth everywhere but alot of it is inexperienced. Ultimately, they prove to be a year away.

Lakers...just a mess. Bus deserves to get shot. No team will ante up until next year, so Kobe stays a Laker this year. He will have his moments at first, then the mediocrity of his surrounding cast and injuries to Odom/Walton will have its effect and he might pull a Vince Carter and tank it. Healthy, the squad has a chance, but they're never healthy. Trading for Jermaine would get them the 8th spot, but not much else.

Waiting for the Lottery Tier: Minnesota, Portland, Seattle, Sacramento, LA Clippers

No winners here.

The Clippers might be just good enough without Brand to get a worse draft pick than they'd like...which is just about par for this franchise. Maggette will be showcased, then dealt at the deadline (he's bound to opt-out). Thornton will be productive immediately. Otherwise, not much else to see here.

Seattle is deep everywhere but no one plays any defense except Kurt Thomas. Durant and Green are already hurt; Delont west is always risky. Thankfully they have Watson and Ridnour. They'll play Szczerbiak alot so they can pump up his trade value, then deal him away for picks and an expiring contract or two; possibly the same for Wilcox. Fun to watch, not many wins for now.

Portland...would have been a fringe playoff team with a healthy Oden, just because they'd have some semblance of defense, but with Aldridge looking fragile and Roy's heel problems...just a disaster. Still searching for a SF. PG depth will be an asset likely cashed in at the deadline.

Minnesota has a ton of talent but none of it will be ready for 2 years. Jefferson will be ungodly, Foye will show progress, and their wings will be too inconsistent. Might be Contender Tier in 2009.

Sacramento. Mess of a franchise. Should have dealt Artest and Bibby when they could have, now Bibby can't even be showcased by the deadline. Stupid. No backup PG, too many overpaid stiffs up front, and now Artest will rob shots from Martin. Sac fans, pray for Derrick Rose or OJ Mayo.

OptionZero

10-28-2007, 12:35 AM

Now the East. Harder to predict since its actually more balanced up and down...

Contender Tier: Detroit, Chicago, Boston
Chicago has the most depth and young but ready talent. I like them alot, but lack of low post scoring and Skiles' odd reluctance to play the kids might hold them back. As they are a jumpshooting team that relies on motion to get separation, their offense will be pretty mediocre. Defensively few are better, and awesome shotblocking (Tyris, Noah, Wallace) might create more transition opportunities to help out.

I like Detroit alot because Sheed is hilariously badass. Billups is steady in the regular season. Starting 5 can hang with anyone, but injury to Stuckey hurts. Hopefully playoff exits motivate them again, because if they really tried they could do alot more damage than they've done the last couple years. Young kids Maxiel and Amir Johnson might not get the shot they deserve to provide a spark off the bench in the frontcourt.

Boston. The opposite of Chicago since they cashed in all that young depth for 3 elites. Garnett will be a beast since his passing actually fits perfectly with Pierce and Allen on the wings. All eyes on Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins, since the Big 3 will shoulder the main load. All they have to do is play defense to help get the big 3 some rest on one end of the court. Depth is a problem, if one of the big 3 goes down...

Good but not Great: New Jersey, Cleveland, Washington, Toronto
New Jersey's big 3 just isn't that big. Kidd isn't an elite defender anymore, although he's excellent at everything else. Carter will be good when he feels like it , but now that he got paid it won't be often enough. Jefferson's lost alot of explosion since injuries, so he's shockingly average now. Krstic won't be 100% for a while; Magloire will be productive in the East, but not enough. loss of Marcus Williams hurts. No depth on the wings. Just plain not talented enough to emerge from middle of the playoff pack in the East.

Washington will score but they play no defense. No plan and no talent on that end of the court means they'll fall short again too often. I love Dominic McGuire. They seriously need to swap Jamison for a PF that defends (KIRILENKO!!!).

Cleveland. James will blow up this year, Daniel Gibson is nice, and that's it. Ilgauskis and Gooden are productive on the boards but aren't good enough, Varejao/Pavlovic situation robbed them of any quality depth. Hughes/Snow/Jones/Marshall boatanchors mean they won't be able to make any immediate improvements. Danny Ferry will be fooled by last year's lucky run in the playoffs and keep the squad together too long. James will want to leave.

Miami. Wade is that damn good, but he's out for a month or so. Shaq doesn't show up in the regular season anymore. I don't expect much out of them during the 82 first games because frankly, they don't really care about it. I love the Ricky Davis trade, since he's a viable 3rd scorer and also is an underrated passer. Alonzo is the best backup C in basketball, which is a good thing since Shaq will sit a dozen games at least. They need to deal Jason Williams and a pick for Ron Artest, move Wade back to the point...do something to be considered in Contender Tier. They'll stumble into the playoffs, and depending on health, will get into the second round, that's about it...if that.

Bears Watching Tier: Charlotte, Orlando, Atlanta
Oddly, this tier is more interesting since it's much more likely that any of these teams improves and jumps into the Contender Tier than any of the Good but not great tier...mostly because these 3 teams are young and talented but just need to put it together, while the upper tier is old and on the way down. I hate conservative GM's (which the Good but Not Great tier all have).

Charlotte might be the next Detroit, since they have a starting 5 full of good to very-good players and no uberstar. Wallace/Okafor make for ungodly shotblocking. Felton and Richardson give them perimeter offense. Dudley, Carrol, and Hermann are quality depth. All they need is a backup PG and they'd just about be stacked, needing only internal growth.

Atlanta...ownership is in a mess, GM is retarded, but when you've been to the lottery this much, you end up with a ton of talent...and they got a ton of talent. Al Horford will be Elton Brand or Tim Duncan...a polished, skilled big with a legit post game. Josh Smith adds highlight reel shotblocking and transition offense; Josh Childress is your steady mistake-free SF, Joe Johnson is a terrific SG with PG skills. All they need is a point guard to put it all together...but they ended up with Acie Law instead of Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Billy Knight should be shot. Instead of extending Josh Smith, i'd spin him for Andre Miller and a host of picks and go to the playoffs.

Orlando is the least exciting of this group. Lewis/Howard will be a nice inside out combo, but Nelson regressed at the point last year. They still lack a SG. Defense will be a problem since Lewis and Turkuglu don't play any. Ariza solves that a bit, but he can't shoot. Halfcourt and slow the tempo, force it into Howard so he'll turn the ball over 3.5 times a night...or speed the tempo and spread the floor even though you don't have enough shooters? Flawed team. Spin Arroyo and Turkuglu for some frontcourt depth and a SG.

Lottery Tier: Philadelphia, Indiana, New York, Milwaukee

Milwaulkee will suck because they don't have anyone who defends for a lick, and their offense is all jumpshooting. Lack of depth on top of that = doom. They entered the draft needing a post presence on offense, a backup PG, or a starting small forward. They came out of the draft with another perimeter oriented PF that didn't even want to play for them. Genius. Go back in time, take Corey Brewer, don't waste your money on Desmond Mason, find a backup PF and backup PG. It's not that hard, but NBA Gm's make it so.

Philly has a ton of talent, and none of it ready now. Outside of Kyle Korver, none of them can shoot, which represents a problem. They would thrive in transition, but they don't quite have enough defense to do it...odd, considering they have a shotblocker (Dalembert) and a wing menace (AIx2). Andre Miller is a highly underrated veteran PG and will help the kids, but they just aren't ready yet. Trading for Reggie Evans was retarded, since he does nothing but rebound his own missed putbacks.

Indiana...dumbest team in the league. Took on the mammoth contracts of Murphy and Dunleavy after handing out their own mammoth contracts to Marquis Daniels and Jamaal Tinsley. They don't have any shooting guards and their PG is overpaid to suck. Jermaine is quality but injury prone and now, offensively challenged. Too many PF/SFs...the most expensive ones are the least talented (Murphy/Dunleavy), the best ones wont get enough burn (Diogu/Granger/Shawn Williams). Last year, didn't even have a draft pick, so no additional young talent to watch. Walsh/Bird should be fired. Move Jermaine, for the best you can get; package Diogu/Dunleavy or Granger/Murphy to ditch the contracts as best you can. Megafail.

New York, second dumbest team in the league. Pairing a low-post center that doesn't defend with a low-post PF that doesn't defend, surround them with perimeter players that can't shoot threes...and that don't defend either. Overpay for all of them. Doom all of your best young talent (David Lee, Balkman) to the bench. Insert one sexual harasser as coach/gm, all paid by a fool living off daddy's riches. "Poorly managed New York team"- it's not a cliche, its a way of life.

SoCalSilvia

10-28-2007, 02:55 AM

BOROSUN

10-28-2007, 03:20 AM

i consider toronto contenders and maybe pull a playoffs 2nd rnd.

my team this year is nuggets but still watching out for my knicks. i like
watching nate.

nuggets can make the finals by just let everybody do their thing. what's with the lightyear efficient than ai? carmello is a turtle. also they dont fucking need a pg, wtf you talking about... they need a defender pg (like a little bowen pg)!
aslong camby, kleiza, najera, martin (finally back), and nene are steadily contributing and working inside the rest of the team will follow.

i guess jr is a essential piece, the whole team is! yeah he can shoot the 3pt range but, he misses more than he can make. even mello or ai has a better 3pt percentage ,right now. i'm just glad jr actually contributing numbers and hoping he keeps it up thru the playoffs. also making those 3's would be great.

p.s. that game with the suns was some lame ass homo 3pt bs shot.

and wtf is up with miami

and why the fuck they bring houston back.

Phlip

10-28-2007, 06:17 AM

Michael Wilbon (or maybe someone else?) said it best last weekend;
Kobe Bryant to the Bulls would be a horrible look for him and the bulls at the same time, as the talent that they would have to give to get him would leave him with just as little around him there as he has in LA, which would in turn make them "The Chicago Lakers."
Personally, I am hoping that we get the Andrew Bynum that showed up to the last preseason game against Sacramento in Vegas shows up in Houston Tuesday night, and every game he is healthy thereafter.
This still won't be their year, and the time of coddling to the Mavericks is officially over now as well. With ZERO changes, outside of a wedding, to the San Antonio Spurs, they will still be the team to beat whether you love it or hate it.
Denver will need to either convince the league to let them play with 2 balls, or learn to properly share it... That and I PRAY that Kenyon Martin's knees are better and he can show us that explosiveness that he seems to have somehow managed to retain some of, I like that dude, always have, even back when he was at Cincinnati.
Phoenix will be Phoenix, they'll run really fast and score a bunch of points, Grant Hill, if he can stay healthy (HUGE if) will be a valuable 6th or 7th man, as well as a great mentor to DJ Strawberry who, if he plays as hard as he did at Maryland and shows off the condition that had him best at the draft combines for anyone his size, will be waiting impatiently to knock off Raja Bell for that 2-guard spot.
Houston will be the trainwreck they always are since Hakeem retired, they will get to the playoffs and somehow manage to fall apart, getting Steve Francis back may not have been that great an idea, considering that Tracy McGrady and Yao will both NEED the ball.
Nevermind the rest of the Western conference, really... Seriously, nothing to see here.
The east will be between the Bulls (UNLESS they trade for Kobe, see the beginning of this post for that), the Pistons (as usual), the LeBrons and the Celtics... Wait, when the fuck did the Celts decide to try and get good? I was always of the mind that 3-superstar teams were never a good idea, but when one of those superstars happens to be a 7-footer with amazing body control, rebounding ability, a willingness to share the ball and the 12-years of loyalty shown to a team that seemed to be most interested in miring him in mediocrity (I mean, Latrell Sprewell? come ON, people!!!) and you have a team that is, while unproven, a surefire contender.
Again, the rest of the Eastern Junior Varsity team will not much matter.

Personally, Tuesday is not coming fast enough, I'm getting tired of baseball news and shit.

OptionZero

10-28-2007, 12:13 PM

good analysis, but you did forget Miami in your eastern conference predicitions. I tend to agree with most of it, but the one thing I absolutely disagree with you on is the whole "trade Josh Smith for Andre Miller and picks." I don't think you realize just how good Josh Smith is. You could make the arguement that he's a better overall player than Gerald Wallace. Add to that, he's only 21. Other than a potential contract situation playing out where he doesn't want to re-sign, there is no way they deal him. They have their PG in Acie Law. He's polished coming out of college so he's not as much of a risk as other PG's(see Crittenton). By midseason, he'll be starting, if not sooner.

Interesting that you mention Dominic Mcguire. You're from the Bay Area so I assume you followed his path to the NBA. If I'm not mistaken, he was highly recruited out of HS, signed with Cal, but then had to transfer to Fresno St. He has size and potential, but honestly, I don't see him as anything more than a career bench player.

Not sure that I agree with you on what Memphis should do either. Ivaroni is a Phoenix/Euro guy, so I think he will play an up-tempo game, push the ball with his quick PG's(Conley, Stoudamire, Lowry) and wings like Gay and Kinsay, have an outside spot-up shooter in Mike Miller, and big men who run the floor like Gasol, Darko and Warrick. Gasol has been very effective in half-court, but with Spain he shows he can run the floor, so he should have no problem doing it in Memphis.

New Orleans has a quality backup C in Hilton Armstrong(has been a beast in preseason when given minutes) and B-Jackson is definitly a serviceable backup PG. With Mo Pete around, Jackson wont have to play alot of minutes at SG.

I see you are a true Warriors fan, mentioning Azubuike. Most people haven't even heard of him, but I think he's a very underrated player who fits in perfectly in Nellie's system. He's supposed to be in the starting lineup until Jackson comes back from suspension. Wonder if Harrington will crack the starting lineup at some point in the season or if Nellie is gonna stick with an extremely small lineup.

Wow, anyways, like I said, good analysis. I think this year is gonna be entertaining.

Miami
Forgot about them. I'll insert it in my Eastern Conference post.

Josh Smith
I'm quite aware of Josh Smith's talents, but I'm also aware of his pricetag and drawbacks. He's a turnover machine and thinks he's Joe Johnson (he's not). He SHOULD be attacking the basket and staying inside of 10 feet of the bucket, using his leaping ability and height, but he wants to be more. He's also had clashes with the coaching staff in ATL. I'll save my self the trouble of negotiating a $14m/year extension, and go to the playoffs with Andre Miller...who had a bigger impact on the Sixers than Allen Iverson. Along the way they could probably pry some extra picks out of the Sixers as well. Plus, Miller's gone in just 2 years, meaning they'll retain long term financial flexibility.

Al Horford is ready to play power forward now, he's basically Mini-Duncan. He played college ball for 3 years, he has a low post game, he has legit size, he boards, he passes, he blocks shots, he's mobile, he's a stud on a freakin' rookie contract. Start him and force feed him the ball. But I realize my suggestion is a drastic step, if you don't believe in Horford, its not really gonna fly. No biggie, I'm just not a fan of "tweener" players , which Smith is. I believe it's more likely he'll plateau as an athletic highlight reel with very good, but never elite production, where as a guy with a true position has a better chance (given equal raw talent) to be elite. If i'm paying $14M, I'd better get damn near close to elite.

Dominic McGuire
The Warriors will regret not taking him. Second rounders are no longer giveaways, you can get rotation players on the cheap if you're smart. The Warriors weren't smart- Stephane Lasme is interesting, but he's the 4th power forward on our team. We needed more athletic wings, and McGuire has the perfect skillset: he defends on the perimeter, he's a weakside shotblocker, and he'll rebound. Lasme is redundant; McGuire fills a need..and I think he has more upside anyways since again, he has a position (SF) while Lasme is a severely undersized PF (he's like 6'7, 6'8).

Memephis
Like I said, I love the talent, but there's something to be said about defensive cohesion, and they haven't shown a bit of it. Indiana dropped 140 on them, yeah, in preseason, but that's a team with Dunleavy and Murphy. It shouldn't happen. They just haven't played together enough, much less with Iavaroni, and I don't see anyone who can step up as a wing stopper. Gay has the potential but not the inclination. Since the loss of Shane Battier, it's a hole thats been pretty glaring. They went from an excellent defensive team to one of the worst ones in the league (if not the worst). I'll let them prove to me they're ready now before I hop (back) on the bandwagon. There's alot of talented offensive clubs with athletic players, but watching the Warriors made me realize how important a defensive philosophy and dedication to execution is. Nelson is a genius for making our players work hard to be #1 in steals and opponent turnovers (top 5 in blocks, too, strangely). Baron Davis lead the league in steals per game. We can switch or trap every pick and roll thanks to our speed, we rotate very well now, we get into passing lanes, we collapse into the middle aggressively, and we throw double teams at you at wierd angles at random times (ask Dirk, he's probably still looking over his shoulder for that 6th defender). It's only possible if you work at it and commit, Memphis hasn't shown that...yet. Thats why Washington, New Jersey, and to a degree, Denver, have similar offensive firepower and pace but have defensive shortcomings. No cohesion or scheme.

New Orleans
Jackson is a little too old and fragile for me to count as a quality backup. Last year their issue was the complete inability to shoot the ball; while MoPete and Peja will help alot, I wish they had found another perimeter scorer to help with the load. West is also a pick and pop big, rather than a low post big, so that might come back to bite them in the ass. They're still dependent on Paul to create shots...so while Paul is good enough...great enough, even, to carry the load, he'll only be carrying that load into the first round.

Kelenna Azubuike
JRich who? Azubuike was a better 3P shooter by percentage last year, he has a superior handle, is much more adept at creating midrange offense, and, if you look at his college rebounding numbers and what he did in the preseason, he should be able to rebound nearly as well. He makes less than $1M, J-Rich makes $12M. I'm pretty happy with the tradeoff.

In my mind, he's already made Monta Ellis trade bait. Ellis is a free agent this coming offseason and we do not have the cap space to retain both. I pick Azubuike who is a true SG and will make less.

SoCalSilvia

10-28-2007, 01:41 PM

DJ Strawberry who, if he plays as hard as he did at Maryland and shows off the condition that had him best at the draft combines for anyone his size, will be waiting impatiently to knock off Raja Bell for that 2-guard spot.

Strawberry definitly has the talent to succeed in the Suns system, even more so than their first round pick Alando Tucker. Funny thing is, I played pickup ball with Strawberry back when he went to Mater Dei HS down here in OC. He was on the same HS team that produced fringe NBA players Cedric Bozeman(UCLA) and Jamal Sampson(CAL). It was funny because dudes would get under his skin by callin him Darryl(his druggy dad).

and why the fuck they bring houston back.

Allan Houston got cut after only playing 6 minutes in 1 preseason game. He was spotted playing golf the next morning.

OptionZero

10-28-2007, 01:43 PM

Allan Houston was a PR stunt to divert attention from the MSG scandal.

yudalicious

10-28-2007, 02:57 PM

Pretty good analysis Option, I agree with most what you wrote. /Thread.
The SW division is so tough, SA, Dallas, Houston.

ALTRNTV

10-28-2007, 05:00 PM

Option, good in-depth analysis for people who wouldn't normally follow any of those teams.

Lakers-Bulls have been in talks about this trade:
Bryant to the Bulls
Deng, Gordon, Thomas, and Noah

I highly doubt that will go down because Kobe has the only no-trade clause (meaning he can veto the trade) in the NBA. His teammates there when he arrives will probably be worse than his current situation now.

I really can't wait to see Boston play this year.

02BRB20

10-28-2007, 06:21 PM

Phlip

10-28-2007, 08:56 PM

People hate on the Heat but they forget 2 very big facts about last season:
1. wade, shaq, and riley played about 10 games together the whole regular season
2. wade wasnt playing 100% in the playoffs; you could tell he didnt want to damage his shoulder further.

they got rid of walker, thank god
Heat V Celtics for East championship
I am not "hating on" the Heat, I am taking them for what they are; a team that happened to have come off on a weak conference, then rode Dwyane Wade to beat the Mavericks, who have never quite been what people seem to want them to be. Shaq has questionable work ethic and his age is beginning to show that, as far as his conditioning goes. At his size, Wade CAN'T go it alone and Penny Hardaway is not the answer... The Heat will be about where they were last year. I DO, however, agree that getting rid of Antoine Walker was a good look for them.

revat619

10-28-2007, 09:28 PM

I am not "hating on" the Heat, I am taking them for what they are; a team that happened to have come off on a weak conference, then rode Dwyane Wade to beat the Mavericks, who have never quite been what people seem to want them to be. Shaq has questionable work ethic and his age is beginning to show that, as far as his conditioning goes. At his size, Wade CAN'T go it alone and Penny Hardaway is not the answer... The Heat will be about where they were last year. I DO, however, agree that getting rid of Antoine Walker was a good look for them.

+1

Couldnt have said it better myself. :bw:

ALTRNTV

10-28-2007, 10:49 PM

The Heat's championship was due to the complete and utter meltdown of the Dallas Mavericks. There are no other words to explain how the Heat won.

OptionZero

10-28-2007, 10:50 PM

Yup. Riley learned too late to rebuild. Now he's stuck with Shaq's $20M/year boat anchor.

He still doesn't have a point guard or any wing depth and he hasn't replaced Kapono, who was pretty much the key to making Shaq worthwhile.

ManoNegra

10-29-2007, 09:50 AM

I'm too heartbroken by the state of affairs with my beloved Lakers. I don't think I'll be following this season with much enthusiasm (if any).

02BRB20

10-29-2007, 10:37 AM

Well, I still think the Heat are the no.1 team in the East, ppl are so quick to write off teams bc their memory only goes from season to season; they had the same team when they won it as they do now (save posey who isnt that great), shaq lost weight and wade's shoulder and knee will be back to 100%

They only really have to worry about the celts and bulls, but when Kobe gets traded to the bulls for Wallace and company; shit will be on lock.

OptionZero

10-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Wow, not only can you predict the future but you're qualified to give medical prognosii as well?

Wade won't even be back for weeks, there's no basis for you to say he'll be 100%. Given the style he plays, the risk of him falling off is real. Were he a standstill jumpshooter or some stiff that doesn't move much, no biggie...but Wade is all about freakish athleticism, the loss of any physical ability (or even subconscious fear) will rob him of production. Shaq doesn't give a crap anymore, he won't even bother showing up till 3 months in. They still lack 3P shooters to space the floor for Wade and Shaq.

ALTRNTV

10-29-2007, 03:46 PM

How real is the rumor that the Wiz are going to trade for Kobe? Marc Stein: Real enough that I wouldn't call it a rumor. Washington's interest, I'm told, is definitely genuine. What we don't know yet is whether Kobe would be amenable to Washington or exactly how much the Wiz would be willing to part with. But the Lakers would be hard-pressed to do better than a package that features Gilbert Arenas and (if they're lucky) Andray Blatche . . . as long as Gil were willing to agree to a contract extension with his hometown Lakers as opposed to opting out at season's end. ESPN.com

Sam Smith reported in today's Chicago Tribune that there's a growing buzz about the Wiz getting involved in the Kobe Sweepstakes and I've since heard that there's legit smoke here. We'll have to see what Kobe thinks of sharing a city with the president, since he wields more power than anyone in the NBA with the league's only active no-trade clause. ESPN.com
I really hope this doesn't go down. I'd rather have him traded to Chicago for 4 quality players, than Arenas.

ESPN.com Team Power Rankings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2008&week=0)
Well, I still think the Heat are the no.1 team in the East
You're really going to write off the Piston's and the newly revamped Celtics, by saying the Heat are still #1 in the East?
They only really have to worry about the celts and bulls, but when Kobe gets traded to the bulls for Wallace and company; shit will be on lock.Wallace is not in the trade talks, it's Deng, Gordon, Thomas, and Noah.

OptionZero

10-29-2007, 04:08 PM

That package is what the Lakers want. Chicago would never give that up, Kobe's already said he wouldn't approve that trade because it'd leave the Bulls in a poor position to contend.

He also said wants to play WITH Wallace, implying any deal including Ben would be vetoed.

The Lakers should take Arenas, a pick, and filler (since Blatche can't be dealt for months) and call it a day. He'd sign an extension there willingly. Thanks to the 12350890 point guards that LAL has, Arenas can slide to his real position - shooting guard.

ALTRNTV

10-29-2007, 09:38 PM

Kobe Bryant isn't going anywhere. The Lakers better make some key moves before he walks out next season and they get nothing in return.

NBA season tips-off tomorrow!

Vision Garage

10-30-2007, 10:43 AM

Imma go hit up a few laker games. They better not disappoint. They did get fischer back to hopefully he can push the other players to step up.

"If im gonna dive for a mothafukken ball, you better dive for a mothafukken ball!!!!"

OptionZero

10-30-2007, 11:12 AM

Opening night baby

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/drawlz600/trainingday.jpg

ALTRNTV

10-30-2007, 01:51 PM

Kobe, get the fuck off my team already. This bitching and complaining is just pissin' me off now. I'd rather have people who play, instead of just "going through the motions" as he's doing lately. I never thought I would EVER say that.

Go Lakers.

Phlip

10-30-2007, 06:01 PM

Time for the Spurs to get their rings, then demolish the Oden-less Trailblazers.
... then I will be a responsible adult and fall asleep on the Lakers' game.
I will spend the whole game wishing that someone would either shit or get off of the fuckin' pot.

ALTRNTV

10-30-2007, 06:19 PM

Gotta love Agent Zero. lol

Just Stay in the West, Kobe
I try not to look at the Western Conference teams. I do want to see how Kobe responds to all these trade rumors. I want to see if he’ll go out there and play his game or if he’s going to go out there and play the “I’m getting traded” game. I won’t really be able to tell based on tonight’s game though. It’s still the opener. A guy like him, he’s going to play team ball at the beginning, but when the season gets going on though and they need some wins, that’s when what I call “excellence” kicks in.

Personally, I really don’t mean to be selfish about the whole trade thing, but personally I hope Kobe stays on the West because if he comes here, that takes away from me and All-Star appearances.

That really does.

We already got rid of A.I. from the Eastern Conference and sent him to the West, so now it’s me and Dwyane Wade at the starting guards. If Kobe comes, who does that hurt? Come on Commissioner Stern, please? Whatever deal has Kobe coming East, just say, “No thank you.” Keep him on the West for me. I mean I’m an All-Star starter now, getting voted in by the fans. If you look at Kobe’s votes, he is leading the league in votes. That only hurts me if he comes here. Come on Kobe, I understand you want to come East but go ahead and stay on the West. Look out for your No. 1 fan.

ALTRNTV

10-31-2007, 05:46 PM

Opening night was alright. Spurs almost lost, but it's only the first game of the season.

Kobe got booed. lol

ManoNegra

10-31-2007, 06:00 PM

Kobe got booed. lol

Not surprised one bit, he's gone out of his way to alienate the fans it seems to me at times. Was a good game though...

ALTRNTV

10-31-2007, 06:04 PM

jackjack

11-01-2007, 11:20 AM

i dont know whos right. after the bulls game last night, sports channel said bulls/lakers are still trying to work out a deal.

Gnnr

11-03-2007, 07:17 AM

Aaannnndddd we're back!

I think the Lakers are definitely going to get rid of Kobe from all the reports...

And of course, put me down in the Heat camp. But I'm not going to make any predictions yet. We're off to a bad start (0-2) but there's a lot of experimenting right now to see whats gonna work. Lots of players gone, lots of new ones too. What I will say is Ricky Davis, with 23 points in the opening game, looks like he's going to be the third man that we need. And hopefully Wade makes a speedy recovery. I'm confident in the team though.

Its gonna be a good and interesting NBA season!

obsolete

11-03-2007, 09:38 AM

wow such biased haters in the west coast. Knicks are middel of the pack team and will contend for a playoff spot.

Kobe just got USED by the laker organization, but that still ain't gonna stop him. He alone sells tickets and that's all they needed out of him. They made some empty promises that they'll get the talent to contend for a championship. Seems like they didn't care too much about winning. Good thing he has a no-trade clause. Very smart.

He should come to the knicks.

Phlip

11-03-2007, 10:48 AM

Breaking news, Lakers/Bulls/Kings deal falls through, Lakers would have gotten Artest and Ben Wallace. Bucher "Lakers are in full go mode as far as trading Kobe, it's no longer a question of if". This deal is dead, but there is still a possibility that they can tweak.
Damn. I would have been all for this.
Not me, Artest is a killer of chemistry, his bad outweighs his good, let him keep making shitty albums, keep him away from the Lakers.
How about they do the noble thing and get a real big man in the fold?
How about EVERYONE stop talking about Kobe and maybe it will all go away?
wow such biased haters in the west coast. Knicks are middel of the pack team and will contend for a playoff spot.

Kobe just got USED by the laker organization, but that still ain't gonna stop him. He alone sells tickets and that's all they needed out of him. They made some empty promises that they'll get the talent to contend for a championship. Seems like they didn't care too much about winning. Good thing he has a no-trade clause. Very smart.

He should come to the knicks.
No, the Knicks are a shitty team and a shittily run organization, they have a coach/decision maker who should have long since been fired. They will ONLY be in playoff contention because they're in the damned eastern conference, where my high school might be able to contend.
Kobe would shit on any deal that would send him to the Knicks, as he should.
I think the best things to have done are already past, and those would have been deals for Jason Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal, but now it is too late and the time is just to make something serviceable out of this shit. We'll all wait to see what happens.

jh3xp

11-03-2007, 11:58 AM

haha....anyone that thought that lakers were gonna be boring and had no chance.....UR WRONG as of evidence from last nights game with the suns :P

Saltman

11-03-2007, 12:23 PM

As long as they keep playing that way then they have a very good team. Bynum will be a powerhouse in 2-3 years. He's developing fast right now. They were smart in getting Fisher back who can mentor Farmar and help him get better. He's already good. Luke Walton has passes out the anus. Terriou or whatever his name is comes hard every night and hustles. Radmonovic was unstoppable. As long as the bench puts up numbers like that then they have a good team. Only thing they need to improve in is getting Kwame to play so f'ing defense. He lets anybody into the paint. Kobe didn't have to do nothing last night. If they trade Kobe though, they're idiots and will be pulling a LA Clippers move.

obsolete

11-03-2007, 12:23 PM

It was just one game. and who thought they would be boring? They ahve the best player in the league and if you remember, they were right in the thick of things for most of first half last year before everyone started going on IR.

Now while i can't argue that west is dominant, the east has gotten very competitive themselves. I do not see any clear cut favorites to win the east.

Saltman

11-03-2007, 12:46 PM

^^ I definitely agree with you on the east coast. As for the Lakers, I was impressed, but yeah, after the first 10 games, we'll see what kind of a team they'll be for the most part. But the east has certainly built up some low end squads such as the Bobcats, the Hornets, the Hawks are surprising, the 76ers, Detroit looks like the old powerhouse they used to be and who can leave out the beloved Celtics? I can't wait for Wade to start playing too. They def need and miss him. I'm crunk about this season.

ALTRNTV

11-03-2007, 03:19 PM

I can't believe none of you mentioned the Celtics. They looked very good last night. Celtic fans should rejoice.

Lakers looked good as well. I wonder how long he can keep it up. Radmanovic and Vujajic finally broke out of their shell for once. Kobe wasn't the leading scorer this time. haha

*Phil Jackson calls a timeout near the end*
D'Antoni: "Don't worry, we'll be ready next time, we still meet 3 more time."
Jackson: "What the fuck is wrong with you? Go sit down."

HAHAHAHAHA D'Antoni got D'antOWNED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-p_PudYj38

Phlip

11-08-2007, 08:04 PM

So far, the applicable word to the league, even in the face of playoff teams who have not yet won a game, is "parity."
San Antonio is going to be what they are, but Boston is FUCKING IMPRESSIVE, Phoenix loses to the Lakers, which can happen when they have all (or at least most) of their players and things fall into the manner that that they can, but Phoenix ALSO lost to Atlanta.
This is going to be a good season.
Oh, and did I mention how elated I am that Gilbert Arenas is 0-4?

OptionZero

11-08-2007, 08:15 PM

I hope the Warriors get their first win against the Mavs.

Ellis, Azubuike hurting; Barnes out; Jack suspended.

If the Mavs lose they should just all retire.

Unholy S14

11-10-2007, 10:32 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4_T4bm-2Xk

ALTRNTV

11-21-2007, 03:22 AM

Bump!

-Celtics are looking good, but the season is only 10-11 games in
-Hornets are also doing very well, surprise team this year
-the Knicks... well, problems keep arising for them
-Spurs are the same boring team, but they win games
-Kobe is still a Laker
-Lakers are 7-3 with a 4 game winning streak

Laker thought/facts:
-Farmar is playing exceptionally well, good decision making
-Radmanovic is finding his stroke (why he was brought to LA for)
-bench production is 2nd in the league
-Lakers are 1st in the NBA in rebounds
-Cook and Evans were traded to the Magic for Ariza

Lakers are:
#1 in rebounding
#2 in bench production
#2 in defensive FG percentage
#3 in scoring
#4 in steals
#6 in FG percentage
#6 in assists

Last time I saw those numbers were back in '00-'03.

Power Rankings:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/powerRankings
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking

OptionZero

11-21-2007, 11:08 AM

I like Ariza on talent, but his skills are unpolished. The fit, however, seems poor for the triangle: he's a poor shooter and poor passer. He thrives in the uptempo and open offense that lets him slash, but the triangle might put more responsibility on him to make decisions.

Given that that Lakers managed to ditch Cook's remaining $10.5M, though, I cannot call it a "bad" deal for them.

Magic win now on production, Lakers win on finances and upside (i.e. later).

ALTRNTV

11-21-2007, 12:27 PM

Yea, getting rid of Cook was "an addition by subtraction." Cook couldn't play defense if his life depended on it.

OptionZero

11-21-2007, 01:02 PM

so...do the Lakers give up Bynum for Kidd, or do they live with Farmar?

I still laugh when anyone refers to the Nets' "Big 3", which is really just Kidd + two good-but-not-great dudes.

Bobafreak

11-21-2007, 01:08 PM

not really into sports but im gonna go lakers, and, pistons this year.
seeing your post akademik your on post on this nba stuff. lol

Phlip

12-07-2007, 05:34 PM

The Heat were never as good as they thought they were.
Neither were The Bulls.
The Celtics are fucking IMPRESSIVE.
So are The Magic.
The LeBrons were losing with him, and are losing worse without him.
Gilbert Arenas is injured and I don't like him anyway.

... the western conference never gets interesting until after AllStar.

ALTRNTV

12-07-2007, 05:52 PM

Celtics do look good, but I'm not going to give them credit yet until after the All-Star break. Here's why.

Teams they beaten:
Wizards
Raptors
Nuggets
Hawks
Nets
Pacers
Heat (twice)
Warriors
Lakers
Bobcats
Knicks
Cavaliers
76ers

Out of those teams, the only team with winning records are the Lakers, Raptors, Nuggets, and Warriors. They're supposed to beat the lowly teams. I do give them credit for winning the games they should win, but I want to see how they do until after the All-Star break, when the "real" NBA season begins.

Phlip

12-07-2007, 06:10 PM

Simoun, the basketball fan in me wants to side with you, but the fact is that they're beating the SHIT out of teams.
You beat "strong" teams, even if you're just supposed to beat them when you're better than them, but they are beating those teams by 30 and beating the Knicks by 50.
*BY THE WAY*
Speaking of the Knicks, I am firmly under the impression that everyone from Isiah up as high as possible should be fucking fired. The shit that happened this summer, but that situation Stephon Marbury (who I am no fan of, mind you) was fucking despicable. How can you NOT tell a man that his father collapsed in the stands at the game. Furthermore, how can you NOT tell him that his father passed 30 minutes before the end of the game he collapsed while watching. All these years, I read about how shittily run they were, but THIS season is exposing it.

OptionZero

12-07-2007, 07:02 PM

Can we trade the Knicks to the D-League and insert one of those teams into the NBA?

ALTRNTV

12-07-2007, 07:03 PM

I'll reserve judgment until after the break. (hating)

:keke:

Xandy Boosts

12-07-2007, 08:10 PM

I agree with AkademikONE...something about the Celts don't scare me. I saw them play on TV when they beat the Lakers, but I don't know.
You know how some teams just impose fear in you when they play your team. The Suns did it, the Spurs do it, the Blazers that played the Lakers during their 3-peat made me scared.

The Orlando Magics is damn impressive right now. SVG must feel good right now with his team on top, and his former at the bottom.

Yi Jianlian is playing really good... he's HUGE!

I was looking forward to see Chicago on top of the East, but damn what happened. Looks like contract negotiation problems have turned into on-court performance issues?

I'm just happy to see Bynum playing well. Hopefully he can get into less foul trouble and get himself some more minutes.

Phlip

12-07-2007, 08:17 PM

What Stan Van Gundy is getting right now is Pat Riley's comeuppance. Read:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7528296?MSNHPHMA

Xandy Boosts

12-07-2007, 09:03 PM

:hs: I had to look up the definition for comeuppance.

I thought this part of the article was funny.

Riley demanded a first-round pick and $1 million from Orlando as compensation. Funny, but in a different lifetime, Riley was furious at the Knicks for demanding a first-round pick and $1 million from Miami when he wanted to run the Heat.

Phlip

12-08-2007, 03:14 PM

The fact that Miami is failing while Orlando is succeeding is hilarious to me and Pat Riley deserves it for what he did.

Gnnr

12-08-2007, 03:43 PM

04-15 *sigh* we are sucking in sports so bad this year.

Xandy Boosts

12-11-2007, 10:14 PM

fuck I hope TJ Ford is alright. I didn't see the video yet but after reading about it....it doens't look so good....especially since he just had surgery on his neck

I just hope he can move again. Articles are saying he didn't even move when he was on the floor. Toronto is pretty strong this year too.... did anyone see the game?

Phlip

12-12-2007, 08:40 AM

I didn't see the game, but I saw the foul, it appeared to be an honest mistake, a play on the ball that went bad when TJ used the rim to seal the defender.
They also said that he moved his extremities in the hospital as well.

legacy927

12-12-2007, 09:12 AM

The Knicks sucks...they get paid to lose...

OptionZero

12-15-2007, 12:03 AM

I'm a Warriors fan and I have NO idea how we won. We didn't really deserve to.

Basically the refs were jobbing us a LITTLE, but we were killing ourselves ALOT with poor,..i mean ATROCIOUS shot selection and ballhandling/passing. Al Harrington, Stephen Jack, Monta Ellis all took turns fucking up fast breaks or simple half-court offense ball rotation.

Basically, Baron Davis' end of the game play making, Kobe's injury, and an ungodly 48% 3P shooting performance overall gave us a lucky win.

Fortunately Utah lost as well to the streaking Trailblazers, and GS now sits in the 7th seed.

I am both frightened and happy that we won. Nellie needs to sit the team down tomorrow and make them watch game tape of their stupidity. Passing drills all day.

ALTRNTV

12-29-2007, 02:23 AM

“Hi, I’m Kobe Bryant and I want to win a championship."
"Once the roster had been determined in training camp, Phil Jackson gathered his players for a meeting at the Lakers hotel in Hawaii. All around the room, they were required to stand one by one, give their name and say something about themselves.

And so, the rookies, Javaris Crittenton and Coby Karl, rose, and and the old returning champion, Derek Fisher, and finally, the most famous man in the room climbed to his feet.

“Hi, I’m Kobe Bryant and I want to win a championship."

For a moment, it had to draw the air out of the room. After all, this was the tension that hung over the franchise like an anvil.

“That’s all he said," Jordan Farmar said by phone Thursday. “That’s all that needed to be said."

Great season so far.

Thoughts/facts:
-Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Blazers, Hornets, Pistons and Spurs are looking exceptionally well
-Blazers with a 12-game winning streak
-Knicks continue to... well, I don't know (fire Thomas)
-Heat continue decline
-Lakers with impessive wins over Spurs, Nuggets (2), Jazz (2), Pistons, and Suns (2)
-Bryant is playing team ball, Bynum is a growing into the player the Lakers drafted him for (with tons more room for potential), bench is playing well

Can't wait for the game this Sunday against the Celtics. Going to be a good one.

Gnnr

12-29-2007, 03:29 AM

Team to beat: Boston Celtics. :eek3: I'm all for KG getting a ring. The man is on a mission!

ALTRNTV

12-29-2007, 03:40 AM

Gnnr

12-29-2007, 04:00 AM

Well, I'm not sure what they base MVP on nowadays. Is it supposed to be the player most valuable to his team? Most valuable in the league? Highest scorer? A person who exceeds in his sportsmanship?

Phlip

01-04-2008, 11:19 AM

I am beginning to notice that Amare Stoudemire is more or less a bully, who only comes off when no one is around to stop him.
If a team even has an *okay* center, he is not particularly good at either end of the court, often even confused-acting when faced with decision time.

OptionZero

01-04-2008, 01:26 PM

If the league actually decided to call traveling or offensive fouls on him...would he be better than Jerome James (circa '04-'04)?

"STAT"'s footwork is generally flawed, only the beauty of Nash's passes and the necessity to sell advertising time overshadow his infractions. He's a phenomenal athlete, no doubt,...a specimen..but he's not particularly skilled.

The Suns are gonna need a big man who can play D if they want to do more than dream about a championship.

On another note:

The Jazz made a minor move (Giricek and a pick for Kyle Korver) that might have just kicked the Warriors out of the playoffs. They now have a pretty good 3P shooter to space the floor for Boozer when Okur is cold.

Damn.

Phlip

01-04-2008, 02:31 PM

Yeah, Amare's footwork is approximately shit, I am hoping that Van Gundy doesn't let that happen to Dwight Howard down in Orlando. Hell with free throw shooting, Shaq made a hall of fame career without it, but his footwork and defense were on point, now they're going to shit too in a linear parallel with his conditioning, but we all saw that coming.
I am not quite counting the warriors out of the playoffs yet, there is a lot of parity between 4-8th seeds, or what would be if the playoffs were not months out.

yudalicious

01-04-2008, 04:40 PM

If Kevin Garnett wins the MVP this year (since most analysts say), I will be disappointed. He isn't even the MVP of his OWN team, let alone the NBA. Yes, the stat differences are minor, but a MVP has to be a clear-cut standout.

Paul Pierce 21.1PPG 5.3RPG 5.0 APG
Ray Allen 19.0PPG 4.0RPG 3.2APG
Kevin Garnett 18.9 PPG 10.5RPG 3.6APG

KG has been ANCHORING that team defensively. Neither of the other 2 guys are defensive stalwarts, is it a coincidence that the Celts suddenly became the #1 team in defense? I think KG is definitely the MVP for the Celts and a front runner for MVP of the league if the Celts continue to play like they're playing. If you watch the Celts play, it's clear he's the heart and the root of defensive mojo for this team.

OptionZero

01-04-2008, 11:15 PM

Garnett has the best mobility on the perimeter of any 7 footer, which allows him to be an ungodly pick and roll defender. You don't get any advantage by running a guard through a pick, since you run into his massive wingspan and quick feet. He's also smart enough to recover and attentive enough to bring weakside help for his team mates.

Throw in his dominating rebounding and you have a seriously effective defense.

jussjepbrox

01-04-2008, 11:20 PM

fuck man warriors lost next game there gonna kick spurs ASS

OptionZero

01-04-2008, 11:22 PM

will you please die already?

If we couldn't close the gap on a Hornets team that lost David West in crunch time, I think you should shoot yourself if you think we're gonna "kick spurs ass".

Dumbass fans can get off the bandwagon please.

BOROSUN

01-05-2008, 04:11 AM

my knicks is done for this season.

as for nuggets they are inconsistent. they will face utah 4xtimes i'm hoping they shut them down atleast 3-1. also they need a win against portland and lakers.

definitely KG deserves mvp, they will be champs this year but, you know who else deserves a championship ring?... AI!

ALTRNTV

01-05-2008, 06:29 AM

Well, I'm not sure what they base MVP on nowadays. Is it supposed to be the player most valuable to his team? Most valuable in the league? Highest scorer? A person who exceeds in his sportsmanship?If it was awarded to the person most valuable to his team, Kobe should have won it during the 05-06 season, and not Nash.

KG has been ANCHORING that team defensively. Neither of the other 2 guys are defensive stalwarts, is it a coincidence that the Celts suddenly became the #1 team in defense? I think KG is definitely the MVP for the Celts and a front runner for MVP of the league if the Celts continue to play like they're playing. If you watch the Celts play, it's clear he's the heart and the root of defensive mojo for this team.Ok ok, maybe I was just hating in my post earlier. lol

The Celtics do look good, however, look at their early schedule, it's one of the weakest in the league. The remaining games for them will be a harder schedule and a better gauge of how good they really are. I expect those 3 losses to add up.

Gnnr

01-05-2008, 03:13 PM

We'll see when they play the Pistons, they've already avenged their other two losses...

yudalicious

01-05-2008, 04:55 PM

Ok ok, maybe I was just hating in my post earlier. lol

The Celtics do look good, however, look at their early schedule, it's one of the weakest in the league. The remaining games for them will be a harder schedule and a better gauge of how good they really are. I expect those 3 losses to add up.

I just think KG has a strong case SO FAR in this long season, but he's not the only one. Celts and Det tonight, this will be their second true test (they lost to Det the first time), should be a great game. My Rockets, on the other hand, not doing so well. Talk about tough schedule, they've played all the top West teams at least twice already and we're only 1/3 of the way through the season. However, w/ Lady McGrady out, their ball movement is the best I've seen in ages, and the last couple of games they have been playing well, a close loss to to a Celts team and a close win over Orlando.

legacy927

01-06-2008, 12:34 AM

i can't believe the Mavs almost lost to the Heat the other night...

OptionZero

01-06-2008, 01:44 AM

Chris Paul just ran through Baron Davis and Steve Nash on a *back to back* set against GSW and PHX.

The All-Star Game is in New Orleans, and frankly, his performance is more than enough.

Paul should start the All-Star Game for the West.

Phlip

01-06-2008, 03:51 AM

This just in:
STEVE NASH IS NOT THAT GREAT!!!
His defense is lacking to the point where he is a liability on defense if the point guard he is facing can work with the ball (C. Paul, J. Kidd) without it (D. Williams) or shoot it (D. Fisher).
See what I just did? I named 3 point guards who have and will continue to pull Steve Nash's skirt, while the league continues to ignore that and hold him as the best ever. Shit, if I had 5 picks, Nash would be my 5th out of point guards in a league that apparently has abandoned point guard play.

OptionZero

01-06-2008, 09:58 AM

Well, his offensive efficiency (check the FG, FT, 3p percentages, the assist totals) is pretty ridiculous still.

I'm sure he tries on defense, but he just never had the raw physical ability to do much.

Marion and bell are above average defenders, and Hill can still play some D.

But the Suns are just too small without a dominating guy in the middle to hold down the paint, which just makes Nash's matador defense stand out more.

I always thought they should have at least gotten another 6'6, 6'7 wing type guy to help man up on the perimeter, since you can't run Hill into the ground this early. None of the guys they drafted have done much.

ALTRNTV

01-14-2008, 11:04 PM

Lakers atop the Pacific Division with their 7th straight win after tonight's OT win in Seattle.
Bynum out 8 weeks, though.

Boston with a 2-game slide.

Knicks/Heat are still... the Knicks/Heat. :ugh:

ALTRNTV

01-21-2008, 03:10 AM

Bump. Zilvia has no NBA love. :(

lol

Phlip

01-21-2008, 06:48 AM

People (well, these people) don't pay attention to the NBA until the NFL season ends, you should know that.
Tracy McGrady has gone down longer than he probably should have been with injury, TJ Ford is rushing his exit from the league because his spine is apparently made of tin foil, the Lakers are unfortunately headed in the same direction as last year, extreme promise ruined by injury and then having to actually PLAY Kwame Brown (could we PLEASE trade him?). Everyone ignores when an even decent point guard exposes Steve Nash's defensive shortcomings EVERY TIME, be it defending the ball or getting out to defend a jumper, but especially on the ball, the man has zero defensive mobility.
LeBron and Dwyane Wade will both need to leave their current demonstrations if they ever want to win again, the Heat will be held down by Shaq's contract and continued refusal to retire and the Cavs will continue to feel stupid for letting Boozer escape with nothing in return, more especially simply for letting him leave.
Did I mention that the eastern conference, with the exception of the Celtics and Pistons, is a fucking joke?

ALTRNTV

01-21-2008, 04:12 PM

BREAKING NEWS.

Lakers sign center DJ Mbenga.

:ugh:

I guess we need all the help we can, after Ariza going down with a foot injury.
:rant2: these injuries!

OptionZero

01-21-2008, 05:32 PM

Someone injured Don Nelson's head a long time ago.

Why else would he run Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson to the ground in pursuit of blown games like today?

Use ur flippin' bench and an actual big man in the middle.

OptionZero

01-28-2008, 12:48 AM

According to ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3217920):

Barring an unexpected change of heart, sources said, Webber will accept the invitation from former coach Don Nelson and former teammate Chris Mullin to come back to the team with whom he won NBA Rookie of the Year honors in 1994, only for Webber to force a trade to Washington some six months later when his prickly relationship with Nelson collapsed.

If anyone ever needed proof that time doesn't move forward in a straight line, but merely in circles...this it it.

After the disastrous post-'94 debacle where Webber left and sent the franchise (With help from other bungling moves by the front office) into a tail spin for 15 years, he's gonna be back with the coach that sent him away to begin with. Go figure.

For those who aren't Warrior fans or are too young to remember:

Warriors had the #3 pick in the '93 draft. On draft day, we dealt the #3 (Penny Hardaway) and three future first rounders to Orlando to draft Webber #1 overall. We made the playoffs that year and Webber was spectacular.

Nellie wanted C-Webb to play center, guard other centers, and play in the low block. C-Webb refused to play center and wanted to stay on the perimeter. As a result of the conflict, Webber exercised an opt-out clause in '94 and was signed and traded to the Washington Wizards in exchange for Tom Gogliotta and future first rounders. (None of those picks was noteworthy).

Gogliotta was eventually dealt for Donyell Marshall, who proceeded to have a half-dozen mediocre seasons with the Warriors.

Marshall was dealt in '00 for Danny Fortson in a multiteam deal. Fortson was a rebounding specialist who averaged 16 pts and 16 boards in 6 games after he was traded, then promptly broke his foot and missed the rest of the year. The next year his stats plummetted (to 11/11) and he lost his job to Troy Murphy, who was a pretty good pick at the time (before he, too, got hurt and lost mobility).

Danny Fortson was dealt in' 03 along with Antawn Jamison to the Mavericks in a 4 team, 9 player deal for Nick Van Exel, Eduardo Nejera, Evan Eschemeyer, and crap.

Nick Van Exel was then dealt to Portland for Dale Davis and Dan Dickau.

The Warriors eventually signed Speedy Claxton to take NVE's starting Pg spot.

In 2004, Claxton and Dale Davis were traded for...

...

...

...

Baron Davis.

Nellie's back. Webber's back. Baron's replaced Hardaway, Ellis has replaced Sprewell, Harrington has replaced Chris Gatling, and Jackson has replaced Mullin.

Oh boy.

BOROSUN

01-28-2008, 05:34 PM

thats why the knicks fired his ass.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2008, 06:00 PM

You know who the Knicks should fire? Thomas.

Phlip

01-28-2008, 08:18 PM

Based upon the events of this season so far, the ONLY person who could win the MVP not named Kobe Bryant without me storming David Stern's office with an angry mob would be Kevin Garnett.

yudalicious

01-28-2008, 10:42 PM

Based upon the events of this season so far, the ONLY person who could win the MVP not named Kobe Bryant without me storming David Stern's office with an angry mob would be Kevin Garnett.

At this moment, my vote goes to CP3, you CANNOT leave him out of the discussion at the least.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2008, 10:43 PM

^
I agree. Hornets have won 9 straight...

yudalicious

01-28-2008, 11:01 PM

^
I agree. Hornets have won 9 straight...

Good. If you don't CP3 will punch you in the 'nads... just kidding. He's so interesting to watch, zips around w/ the ball like a yoyo, fast but never in a hurry...reminds me of the great John stockton.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2008, 11:05 PM

In my opinion, I think he's the best pure point guard in the league right now, even above Nash.

yudalicious

01-28-2008, 11:07 PM

In my opinion, I think he's the best pure point guard in the league right now, even above Nash.

I will agree to that. He's assist to TO ratio is very good. I will go one step further and say he's the best overall point guard period in the league right now.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2008, 11:10 PM

I forgot the fact that he's only 22...

Phlip

01-29-2008, 06:49 AM

In my opinion, I think he's the best pure point guard in the league right now, even above Nash.

I think that honestly moves Nash to #3, then, because as a total package, Jason Kidd is a better point guard than Nash is too, if only based on the fact that he is not a defensive liability.
*NEWS*
Jason Kidd finally gotten smart and is trying to get the fuck out of Jersey:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7734242?MSNHPHMA

Xandy Boosts

02-01-2008, 01:42 PM

First big trade (Well big to me!)

Lakers acquire Pau Gasol for Kwambe, JCrit, and 2 future 1st rounders!

Alot of people were on Javaris Crittenton so many didn't wanna trade him. But I love the way Jordan Farmar has been playing. Good news for Laker fans!

ALTRNTV

02-01-2008, 01:43 PM

TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE

The Memphis Grizzlies will send Pau Gasol and a future second-round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, the unofficially retired Aaron McKie , the draft rights to Pau Gasol's brother Marc and future first-round picks in 2008 and 2010, NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

It is believed that the Lakers would need to arrange a sign-and-trade for McKie to make the salary cap math work for the deal. McKie is not currently playing in the NBA but his rights are owneed by the Lakers.

According to The (Memphis) Commercial Appeal, which also reported the trade, the Grizzlies decided to move ahead with trading Gasol because the team felt it could not longer move ahead with him off or on the court -- and that the acquisition of Brown, who is earning $9,075,000 in the last year of his contract, would provide the franchise salary cap relief.

The Commercial Appeal also reported that the Grizzlies are sending Stromile Swift to the New Jersey Nets for center Jason Collins. The Grizzlies and Nets have been discussing that deal for the past week and expect to finalize it on Monday, according to the report.

Swift met with Grizzlies coach Marc Iavaroni and general manager Chris Wallace on Friday, was sent home and did not practice with the team and will not play in Saturday's game against Utah, the newspaper reported.

Gasol will play the C position until Bynum returns, then Gasol will slide to the PF position.

C- Bynum
PF- Gasol
SF- Odom
SG- Bryant
PG- Fisher

We finally got rid of Stone Hands Brown, for someone who can actually do something with the ball, and can shoot anywhere on the court. :)

Phlip

02-01-2008, 01:46 PM

^^^ That makes now the time for Pau Gasol to prove that he was good enough to want to be traded. The pieces moved out in exchange were good in my opinion, though. Kwame Brown's hands are terrible and he will NEVER be worth the #1 pick he was.

ALTRNTV

02-01-2008, 01:53 PM

Xandy Boosts

02-01-2008, 01:59 PM

I was UPSET last night man....

I can't wait for ARIIIZZAAAA and Bynum to get back! :rawk:

imnotmatt1189

02-01-2008, 02:44 PM

i am so happy......AJKSDFKLSJFLKSDJFKLJSDKLFJ

lakers are gonna freaking dominate!!!!!!!!!!

Xandy Boosts

02-01-2008, 02:44 PM

new sig :keke:

anyone know if pau is playing tonight against toronto? lakers front line will be VERY thin with only ronny up front if he doesnt

ALTRNTV

02-01-2008, 02:53 PM

^
You got that sig from CLubLakers huh? lol

Xandy Boosts

02-01-2008, 03:08 PM

^
You got that sig from CLubLakers huh? lol

:keke: yea I jus added the bynumite part and took out the CL logo shhhhh

Phlip

02-01-2008, 04:01 PM

All we got to do now is trade No-Show Odom... :aw:

Gasol will extend the defense even further out, now that we have a
big man who can shoot, and drive the ball also.

P.S. Last night's game was a disappointment. They came back after
being down, then gave the game away. Lamar with the airball at
the end of regulation. :coolugh:
Between work and home, I thought of something.
Odom at the 3
Gasol at the 4
Bynum at the 5 when he returns.

... Odom is not forced to play second option, falling into a more comfortable role as a small forward who is longer than most he will come up against, making him definitely attention-worthy to any 4 looking to rebound. He would also be in that space he was in behind Dwyane Wade and Caron Butler in Miami, which actually made him look like he was worth having on a team. This could all work out in the end.

ALTRNTV

02-01-2008, 04:11 PM

Yea, that was my line-up from earlier.

C- Bynum
PF- Gasol
SF- Odom
SG- Bryant
PG- Fisher
I also heard that Memphis is going to buy-out Kwame's contract, and he's
gonna sign the MLE contract. That basically means we got Gasol for Crittenton
and 2 1st-rd draft picks. Not bad, we keep Brown and his defense and his big body.
I'm still waiting for a confirmed source though. Props to Mitch Cupcake.

The Lakers were a championship contender when Bynum was healthy, now we
have Gasol, that has to bolster our chances significantly.

Kobe, Farmar, Odom, and Fisher can all penetrate to the middle with no real fear
of the opposing C or PF blocking them, since Gasol will be extending them to the 3-pt line,
and if they do face them, just kick it out to Gasol for the trey.

See you all in June at the Laker parade. :keke:
PHLIP, June is the time you should plan a trip
down here. :)

Xandy Boosts

02-01-2008, 04:39 PM

Mitch Cupcake worked his magic wand alright big time!

I'm loving our bench big time right now though. Farmar, Ariza, Vujacic, Turiaf.
I always hoped Sasha would come up big for LA. Love how he has no fear, and loves to take that shot. And he's a pesky little defender that pisses everyone off.

OptionZero

02-01-2008, 05:49 PM

Odom's not a 3- he doesn't have the consistent outside shot where he just catches and shoots; he can't defend smaller 3's fulltime.

I'm expecting Odom + Farmar for Kidd or Artest any second now.

Damn the Grizzlies. They should have at least extracted Odom or Farmar or Ariza somehow.

The same thing happened in Minnesota- McHale SHOULD have gotten the #5 pick for Garnett, but waited too long like a little bitch.

Phlip

02-01-2008, 05:54 PM

Odom doesn't NEED a consistent jumper, so long as Gasol is on the floor and Derek Fisher and Kobe Bryant have pulses... I would be more than comfortable making him the 3 in a HUGE lineup.
The Lakers are having to work too hard to maintain team chemistry as it is, and Jason Kidd is currently unaffordable for what they would have to unass to get him. Let us ALSO not forget that he is 35, has had microfracture on both knees and wants a new contract... THAT, sir, is scary, even if he is one of the top 2 point guards in the league.

ALTRNTV

02-03-2008, 01:39 AM

I guess I was a little soft from my earlier post. It is over.
Bryant+Fisher+Odom+Gasol+Bynum
Who can match up to that? The league wasn't this scared
when KG went to the Celtics. Fear the Lakers.

2007-2008 NBA Finals
Los Angeles Lakers vs Boston Celtics
Lakers in 6

See you all at the parade.

Here are some responses from other NBA forums:
You mean other than their small forward being bigger than our center?
----------------------------
our being pretty delusional right now. look how well they played full strength and then add a gasol? damn. i was scared of the lakers before with bynum playing so well, now the suns chances are slim against them.
----------------------------
Anyone here work for the INS or State Department? There has to be a way to mess with Gasol's visa or papers.
---------------------------
Too bad Amare won't be matched up with Gasol, he'll get Andrew Bynum who has owned Stoudemire in their two meetings this season. Gasol will get Shawn Marion and Grant Hill will get Lamar Odom. That should be interesting experiment to see how many games you can win when the other team gets an offensive board on every possession.
---------------------------
some people are ignoring that this is Phil Jackson and this is a team with decent players.... and a BIG frontline. With Gasol's scoring and more than enough rebounding ability... combined with Odom's and Bynum's good rebounding ability. That front court will pretty much beat the Suns by themselves.... and OH.... forgetting no.24....
---------------------------
Maybe the NBA will change the rules and make offensive rebounding illegal.
---------------------------
West ain't there anymore. Griffin would have been, but he turned the job down.

I'm pretty sure Kupchak has nude pics of Memphis management.

This sucks a-word(edited).
-----------------------------
It's not even a question, the Lakers are CLEARLY better than us now Lebron or not.

Their front line is all over 6'10 and capable of dropping a double double. They will be a great rebounding team and have 2 7 footers around the rim to block shots. Bigs win in the NBA as proven by our team and that is one helluva front line any way you want to spin it.

Then consider they kept all their best bench players like Farmar and Turiaf, and have a great offensive/defensive backcourt with Fisher/Bryant, AND have Phil Jackson - a HOF Coach..it's not even close and I hate the Lakers.
---------------------------
damn the lakers are stacked at the big. ugh.

with gasol roaming 10-15ft out the basketball, imagine seeing kobe cuttin in and layin the smackdown on some fool tryin to box out. wow!!!
Most of those had me busting out laughing.

OptionZero

02-03-2008, 01:58 AM

There were rumblings of Phoenix being interested in Shaq for Marion and Diaw. I thought it was absurd until HoopsWorld more or less confirmed there was at least a discussion.

Odd decision, as Shaq seems the anti-suns, but if Shaq miraculously gets healthy (hrm, maybe not playing for a shitty team would help...), that's quite a scary combination: Nash, Amare, Shaq, Hill, Bell, and Barbosa off the bench.

oh yeah, how bout Kidd to Houston or Dallas and Artest to Denver.

It's like a freakin' arms race.

ALTRNTV

02-03-2008, 02:50 AM

I don't think Shaq is a good fit in Phoenix's system. They are a run-n-gun team, very fast paced. Then you have O'neal, who is on the verge of retirement. His overall physical shape and condition is deteriorating. He is not in shape, his knees and joints just have too much mileage on them. He doesn't have anything left to prove, he's one of the best centers ever and a multiple NBA Champion.

Utah with 9 straight wins and Boston's perfect record against the West. Impressive.

Xandy Boosts

02-03-2008, 03:21 AM

Sweet, a hoopsworld visitor. Too bad their forum isn't as active as it used to be. I hope phoenix trades for shaq, makes them less scary. Shaq will just slow the suns down. Just like in Miami, when they were better with Alonzo in the lineup.

Phlip

02-03-2008, 07:32 AM

Phoenix is already UNscary, does anyone remember how any team who has a center who has even decent footwork owns Amare? Does anyone notice how ANY team with a point that can dribble and distribute the ball and hit open shots exposes Steve Nash as a defensive liability?
I have the Suns making the playoffs, but they have far missed their chances at winning a championship. Shaq would also be a horrible look for Phoenix, I don't think there are many people they would be able to add who would make them any better than they are right now.

ALTRNTV

02-04-2008, 01:44 AM

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/e1/fullj.f05a8bc6d32d7428716dbdbf8b9249fb/f05a8bc6d32d7428716dbdbf8b9249fb-getty-76074995nd030_lakers_wiz.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/b0/fullj.084496c4955791837fd510b17e1e6bdd/084496c4955791837fd510b17e1e6bdd-getty-76074995nd024_lakers_wiz.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080203/capt.68496860f1ca4a3c834c6b81b023fa17.lakers_wizar ds_basketball_vzn106.jpg

imnotmatt1189

02-05-2008, 12:37 AM

^ hahhaha kobe looks so happy in the 1st pic.

oh man i can't wait to see gasol play as a laker!!!!!

ANVIL

02-05-2008, 12:09 PM

who woulda thought 3 yrs ago that the Lakers would be #1 team (to potentially win the championship) and the Heat wouldnt even make playoffs :ugh:

sad day for us Heat/Shaq fans :sadwavey:

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 12:35 PM

Gnnr

02-05-2008, 12:47 PM

I doubt Shaq's going anywhere...I mean he doesn't have that many years left I think. If he did, thats where he'd be retiring.

As for the Heat, hmmm...Wade said it best last night.

‘We [stunk] more the past couple of games than we have all season. Bad basketball. Terrible basketball. Maybe the season is getting away. I’m trying. I’ve said all I can say, doing all I can do. I’ve talked to guys. I don’t have the answers. I don’t know the formula.” -Wade

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 12:53 PM

Does anyone here think the Heat can turn it around this season? They are about 10 games behind the 8th spot in the East.

ANVIL

02-05-2008, 12:59 PM

^
Talk about a fan out in nowhere? You live in Alaska and are a Miami fan? haha nice.

The Lakers ARE NOT the #1 team by any means, Gasol hasn't even played a game with us, until later tonight. We still have team chemistry to worry about, and for Gasol to fit in the triangle. When Bynum comes back, we'll also need to adjust. The championship isn't ours until then.

(I'm just being modest, we're gonna fucking rule for years to come) :keke:

well for 1 Alaska doesnt have a team.. and 2 Shaq has been my favorite player in the NBA since his rookie year. Gotta stay loyal where ever he plays.

and it said Potentially #1 to win. theyre playing awesome and seems like the have the key players to get it done (even more so than boston). but your right aobut the chemistry thing, thats why i said potential

ANVIL

02-05-2008, 01:01 PM

Does anyone here think the Heat can turn it around this season? They are about 10 games behind the 8th spot in the East.

not getting my hopes but but I think they have the ability to but they have been so inconsistant this season so its still kinda up in the air. If they were in the west no chance though.

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 01:06 PM

If they were in the west no chance though.True. my old high school Varsity team can win in the East. :keke:

OptionZero

02-05-2008, 05:12 PM

Big problem: luxury tax

The Heat's best trade bait are the expiring deals of Jason Williams and Ricky Davis. As we saw with Gasol, the opportunity of cap space is attractive.

However, the Heat do not want to bust the tax, and all major talent out there WILL push them over the tax.

If they wanted to make a quick fix, they would have to deal for Bibby and Mike Miller, but that would be adding around $25M in contracts.

The Heat should trade Shaq for any relief they can get and pray they draft well the next two years.

pbcstylez

02-05-2008, 06:39 PM

OptionZero, you're as frequent a visitor as I am to warrior's game whats the deal with this Webber signing? i think hes beyond his prime, can he even run anymore?

ANVIL

02-05-2008, 06:45 PM

Was it a trade? I thought he was just signed? Either way, yes hes passed his prime but any team would benefit with him on the squad, hes still a pretty solid PF for any team looking for a good passing/outside shooting 4. He will make D have to spread the floor a little more and also he plays pretty decent defense. Plus he was originally drafted to the Warriors.

pbcstylez

02-05-2008, 06:59 PM

yah being drafted to the warrriors doesnt matter, but why settle an over the hill PF? i like Webber from his warrior days to his Kings days, but I dont think he can keep up with the team. Yah he will be fine in the half court sets, but dont expect him to run full court

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 07:02 PM

I think Webber can still contribute in a good way, to the young Warrior team.

OptionZero

02-05-2008, 07:28 PM

OptionZero, you're as frequent a visitor as I am to warrior's game whats the deal with this Webber signing? i think hes beyond his prime, can he even run anymore?

The Warriors added Webber for a couple reasons:

1. Cost
Webber was signed for the veteran's minimum ($1.3M). The NBA League covers $500K of that (team pays $800K). Then you pro-rate by remaining games and Webber ends up making a little under $400K.

This is a straight signing- not a trade, so we "lose" no talent.
Trading for a PF that's actually better than Al Harrington would likely cost Al himself AND some combination of our first rounder, Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, or Brandan Wright.

2. Lack of alternatives
having trade pieces is nice; you need someone to trade FOR. Now, you might say,...GASOL! but Gasol is a questionable fit in the Warriors system, he's having alot of trouble on an uptempo Memphis team, he's not the quickest defender. He would have made us more talented, but we'd have had to gut the team to find sufficient expiring contracts (there's no way Memphis takes on a long term deal), leaving no bench. There's also the Jerry West connection, not to be ignored.

The rest of the names out there are Kidd, Carter, Artest, Kirilenko, Marion, Shaq, Jermaine O'Neal...none of whom were going to the Warriors because they were poor fits or playing on another WC contender, and all are expensive.

3. Webber can pass
When's the last time you saw Biedrins or Harrington "finish" a break"? You almost never send all 5 guys down on a fast break, usually theres 1, 2, 3 guys trailing while Ellis and someone else fly down the court.

There's no need for Webber to actually be running up and down like it was '94 all over again.

What Webber can still do is pass ..

Reading the SF Chronicle/SJ Merc reports on practice, all reports indicate Webber can still dish the rock and hit an open J. That's all you really need when you're one of the best high-post passing big men of all time, and that's not an exaggeration. just you tube the guy- for every dunk you'll find an impressive backdoor or full-length outlet pass to another teammate.

Nellie pretty much said straight up..."high-low". If you don't watch basketball, it basically means when you have a big men that can pass (Webber) and big men that can move (Biedrins), you can get easy buckets by designing action for the two. One big man slides up to catch it while the other rubs free, and you get a layup.

Many of Nellie's plays were used by Sacrament, and those plays are gonna be implemented this 5 day layoff.

3. Webber can rebound

Webber can still board, too. He's still 6'10, and his rebound rate (boards per 100 possessions) was similar last year to what it's always been. Given that Nellie has been prone to starting guys like Matt Barnes (6'7) and Mickael Pietrus (6'6) at PF...I have to imagine Webber is an upgrade

You can't run a fast break until you get the ball, and you get the ball by stealing it or getting a stop and a rebound. Glasswork matters. Glasswork will spark breaks when accompanied by a strong outlet pass and freaks like Monta Ellis.

-Defense-
This is a legitimate concern- Webber isn't nearly as quick as he was before, and the Warriors rely alot on being able to switch on defense quite a bit. Webber will not be stepping out to defend SF's like Harrington could in spot-duty.

Webber should still be big and strong enough to man up to guys like Boozer, at least enough to deny early position. He's still a crafty player these days, as well.

Also remember...the Pistons were one of the best defensive teams in the league last year, and Webber started for them. can't do that if u can't play at all. Sure, they had 'Sheed and Prince surrounding him, but Biedrins and Jack don't exactly suck.

Given the cost and the potential benefit...how do you not do it? There's little chemistry concerns, Jack and Baron own the locker room, and Nellie runs the team. Webber's said all the right things, the players have said all the right things. Webber makes nothing, so it's easy to cut and eat the $350K or whatever

Low risk, high reward.

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 07:42 PM

$400k for Webber? That's a steal, especially for what he provides to the table.

fliprayzin240sx

02-05-2008, 08:01 PM

Well the thing with Webber that you guys didnt bring up is that if you give him the ball, he can still do something with when it matters the most. He can still post (depending on whos guarding him) and he still got a nice 6-10 footer jumpshot. Given the chance, he can still consistently chip in 10-14 points if needed.

Phlip

02-05-2008, 08:08 PM

I am agreeing with the consensus here that Webber is a good look for the warriors, especially for what he will cost them, and at the very least he is a "why the fuck not?" given the situation.
His strong and weak points have been discussed, and my only worries would actually be his knees, which immediately make him a defensive liability if he's rotated to someone who MIGHT handle the ball, or (God forbid) he come up against someone in the post with good footwork. Luckily for him, though, very little about the Warriors' game lends itself to the frequent likelihood of this. I DO, however, worry about HIS ability to be involved in the break beyond being the dude who pulls the rebound and turns and throws it to the first/fastest to release on the break.

fliprayzin240sx

02-05-2008, 08:11 PM

I am agreeing with the consensus here that Webber is a good look, especially for what he will cost them, and at the very least he is a "why the fuck not?" given the situation.
His strong and weak points have been discussed, and my only worries would actually be his knees, which immediately make him a defensive liability if he's rotated to someone who MIGHT handle the ball, or (God forbid) he come up against someone in the post with good footwork. Luckily for him, though, very little about the Warriors' game lends itself to the frequent likelihood of this. I DO, however, worry about HIS ability to be involved in the break beyond being the dude who pulls the rebound and turns and throws it to the first/fastest to release on the break.

Shiet, isnt that all that matters for a team that runs like a pack of fucking cheetahs??? He pulls it, he heaves it as far as he can and somebody will catch it down court...No way can he make those runs anymore...

As far as the Lakers being the best in the West, sure they may be the best on paper, but the West still have way too many stacked teams. Just because you have the best record, the #1 scorer, all that can change during the playoff.

OptionZero

02-05-2008, 08:45 PM

The Warriors always have a guard run out to half court to catch the outlet pass on a rebound, or an inbounds pass after a score.

There's little time for any big man to actually run and catchup anyways, much less one with a busted knee.

Ellis and Baron essentially get a running start or at least a big lead; it's like a well-designed route by a WR who catches the ball in stride. They're hard to catch.

Fortunately it's more or less worked so far.

If anything, he's just a competent warm body that Nellie will actually use, which makes us deeper, since Brandan Wright and Patrick O'Bryant can't get off the bench (nellie's too stubborn), and Austin Croshere is always broken.

ANVIL

02-05-2008, 08:58 PM

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 09:03 PM

Webber has a nice 10-16ft jumper he consistently makes.

Gasol with a nice debut today with the Lakers.

Pau Gasol: 24pts/12rebs/4ast
Lamar Odom: 14/15rebs/5ast
Derek Fisher: 28pts
Kobe Bryant: 6pts/5rebs/8ast

Kobe has SIX points, and they win by 15. Wow. Even though it was against
the Nets, it's a good indication of how well they will play from now on.

OptionZero

02-05-2008, 09:10 PM

ESPN now running with the Shaq-to-PHX story:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3232862

ALTRNTV

02-05-2008, 09:13 PM

I really hope he comes to Phoenix. Makes our title chances better.

Xandy Boosts

02-05-2008, 09:17 PM

Gasol looked great tonight. Kobe looked happy as fuck! Whodathunkit this would happen to Kobe after the "Ship his ass out!" thing about Bynum 8 or so months ago.

Xandy Boosts

02-05-2008, 11:01 PM

Per Hoopsworld.com

Shaq Trade Imminent
Reports from across the country say Shaq O'Neal is en route to Phoenix for a physical. If he passes he's traded to the Suns.

fliprayzin240sx

02-06-2008, 12:47 AM

Anyways, back to the whole Webber thing...Guess hes on the starting 5. Not bad for $400k...

Xandy Boosts

02-06-2008, 01:55 AM

hahha cracks me up everytime!

http://www.clublakers.com/video-blog-dj-mbenga-saying-tacos-2326.html

ALTRNTV

02-06-2008, 02:24 AM

LOL!! That cracked me up.

Picking up Mbenga wasn't a bad idea, he does what he's
supposed to do out there.

I really do think the Shaq trade will be a mad move. That will force
Amare to the wing instead of the low block, since Shaq will be
rocking his rocking chair down there. I guess it's good for the opponents
though, with Amare settling for outside jumpers.

In other news, Kwame Brown's debut with the Grizzlies:
4pts, 4rebs, 3 fouls, 3 turnovers in 15 min

Oh noessss! (http://www.mediatakeout.com/20722/uh_oh_nba_stars_caught_on_film_partying_it_up_with _underage_girls.html)

Phlip

02-06-2008, 06:33 AM

Shaq to Phoenix would be a stupid move on the part of Phoenix.
They need to find Hakeem Olajuwon to help Amare with his footwork and defense, they need Jason Kidd, if only to show Steve Nash how to defend a point guard, they need a real power forward, not to put a cinder block with diminishing abilities in the middle and try to move Amare over.
Shit, moving Amare to the 4 would prove lethal when he meets Tim Duncan or back up with Andrew Bynum, he'd be CRUCIFIED against Kevin Garnett or Rasheed Wallace on the FAR outside chance that they come off in the west and make it to the finals.

yudalicious

02-06-2008, 11:41 AM

...on the FAR outside chance that they come off in the west and make it to the finals.

Very very far chance. I personally think this will make Pho from top 4 to the bottom 4 of the playoff ladder. Marion was Nash's go to guy on fastbreaks/semi breaks. They just lost an athletic defender and a guy that spaces the floor so well for them on offense. Worst of all, Shaq won't even be able to keep up with the west's younger centers in a 7 game series.

woodchuck

02-06-2008, 01:07 PM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......

http://bestweekever.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/kazaam.jpg

worst trade of 2k8 if it happens.

yudalicious

02-06-2008, 01:15 PM

I see where Pho is going with this move, they obviously can't win in a 7 game series running and gunning 24/7, they're preparing for that match up in the playoffs. Idea works, but an old and aging Shaq who's barely played this season doesnt. But hey, I'm gonna root for this to work out, if it does, it's gonna be an interesting post season!

ALTRNTV

02-06-2008, 01:19 PM

yudalicious

02-06-2008, 02:11 PM

I'm hoping the Suns pull the trigger. Shaq is undergoing a
physical right now, if he passes, the deal will happen. :)

Kobe Bryant to headline this year's 3-point shootout.
CLICK (http://www.nba.com/allstar2008/three_point/3ptshootout_080206.html)

It's either he catches fire and wins it, or places dead last.
But look, since when does Kobe have a chance to go against no
opponent? lol He isn't a set-shot type of player though.

Get your Phoenix Suns Shaq jerseys (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png)!

KwameBrownSucks.com (http://www.kwamebrownsucks.com/)

The Suns management should'nt have given away kurt thomas in the first place. I don't think kobe as a pure spot shooter, but I think he isnt a bad set shooter. His mechanics are flawless really. But his release probably isn't quick enough to get him the win.

Phlip

02-06-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm hoping the Suns pull the trigger. Shaq is undergoing a
physical right now, if he passes, the deal will happen. :)

Kobe Bryant to headline this year's 3-point shootout.
CLICK (http://www.nba.com/allstar2008/three_point/3ptshootout_080206.html)

It's either he catches fire and wins it, or places dead last.
But look, since when does Kobe have a chance to go against no
opponent? lol He isn't a set-shot type of player though.

Get your Phoenix Suns Shaq jerseys (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png)!

KwameBrownSucks.com (http://www.kwamebrownsucks.com/)

I'd rather see an all-star slam dunk contest between Kobe, Lebron, Gerald Green, T-Mac (without tampon, please) and Vince Carter than to see Kobe in the 3-point.
Feel free to name more as you see fit, but I want to see the slam dunk contest returned to Jordan vs 'Nique days.

Looks like they went ahead with the Shaq deal, and I am convinced that was not a good idea, watch and see.

ALTRNTV

02-06-2008, 04:44 PM

The Shaq trade is official (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3234099).

As much as I'd like to see the REAL dunkers in the contest,
the rules changed so that they can't participate. Kobe in the
3-pt shoot-out is something new. He already won the dunk
contest, has played in the NBA/WNBA challenge, and the skills
challenge, and of course a 10-time All-Star.

yudalicious

02-06-2008, 04:55 PM

As a Hou fan, I can tell you Lady Mcgrady's tampon is permanent. As much as I think this trade is crazy, I hope Shaq returns healthy and to a fraction of what he was before... just imagine, Shaq and Kobe in the Staples center in the playoffs... only this time Shaq is a Sun and Kobe has 2 7 footers standing beside him.

BOROSUN

02-06-2008, 05:49 PM

cant really judge until they (shaq/suns) play. reminds me of the 71-72 lakers. basically wilt didn't had to run much but, still contributing. they won the championship against the knicks that season. (boooo <^>)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW7zLyMYKOo

i'll be cheering for the East and AI on the allstar game.

fliprayzin240sx

02-06-2008, 08:06 PM

Wow, Shaq back in the west coast...

Whats sad is, if he couldnt be dominating in the eastern conference, no way in hell he can be being back in the west. Either way, hope it works out for the suns...

ALTRNTV

02-06-2008, 08:12 PM

Ugh. Lakers lost to the lowly Hawks. lol

OptionZero

02-06-2008, 09:39 PM

i would laugh so hard if PHX and LAL dropped after adding Shaq and Gasol

i would cry if the Warriors won 46 and missed the playoffs

BOROSUN

02-06-2008, 10:32 PM

just finished the suns/hornets game.
that was intense. i only watched it to see how shaq will fit.
i think he'll do great and the suns too.

aargh denver was close.they need nene back and nuggets bench to contribute more.

ANVIL

02-07-2008, 12:09 AM

looks like im switching teams again. Weird, when Shaq was on Lakers, MIA was my 2nd fav team. And right now PHX was my 2nd fav team.

Anyone know when Shaqs first game is going to be

ANVIL

02-07-2008, 12:10 AM

whats the word on J-Kidd to the Mavs? or any other big trades goin down before deadline?

OptionZero

02-07-2008, 01:44 AM

www.hoopsworld.com

www.realgm.com

Gnnr

02-07-2008, 10:25 AM

That was the best commercial in the Superbowl, I laughed so hard. lol

http://www.miamiherald.com/592/story/409710.html
...Considered one of the most improbable trades in NBA history, the Heat would unload O'Neal's contract for Marion, who this summer could opt out of the final season that would pay him $17.2 million next season. Banks, a reserve point guard, has three seasons and $13.3 million remaining.

Should Marion opt out, the Heat could fall $14-$18 million under the salary cap and be in play for potential free agents such as Gilbert Arenas, Ron Artest, Elton Brand, Allen Iverson and Luol Deng....

So I was wrong about the Shaq move. I think its a good move on our part and a bad one for Phoenix, we'll see how that turns out for them.

veilside180sx

02-07-2008, 11:05 AM

Blazers FTW=)

OptionZero

02-07-2008, 03:52 PM

That was the best commercial in the Superbowl, I laughed so hard. lol

So I was wrong about the Shaq move. I think its a good move on our part and a bad one for Phoenix, we'll see how that turns out for them.

It's not quite so simple.

Brand and Iverson have player options, which mean they have to decide to opt out and leave close to $20M on the table before even hitting free agency.

Arenas has already declared he's going to opt-out, despite his injury. The Wizards, however, are more than likely going to throw the max at him anyways. As they possess his Bird Rights, they have the absolute power to outbid Miami.

Deng is even less likely- he's a restricted free agent. The Bulls don't just have his Bird Rights (they can offer more money than anyone), they also have right of first refusal. If Deng signs an offer with Miami, the Bulls can match it and automatically keep Deng.

What Miami does gain, however, is the power to sign-and-trade Marion if he opts out. That involves Miami using it's power to re-sign Marion to a large contract (something few other teams have the cap space to do) but also retaining final say in what package of talent they want in return.

If I'm the Warriors and it's this summer, I call Miami and offer Monta Ellis, Mickael Pietrus (in sign-and-trades) plus filler.

Phlip

02-08-2008, 06:00 PM

Coming this Sunday on ABC (where I live, at least):
Spurs vs. Celtics, followed by Lakers vs Heat.

Gnnr

02-08-2008, 08:42 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna watch that for sure. Should be interesting...

fliprayzin240sx

02-08-2008, 09:09 PM

Wait...Warriors are willing to open their pocket to get players?!?!

OptionZero

02-08-2008, 10:24 PM

They have never failed to re-sign a player when they were permitted by rule to do so.

The Warriors opened their wallets to retain Foyle, Richardson, Murphy, and Dunleavy. They opened their wallets for external free agents like Derek Fisher and Speedy Claxton in roughly the same era as well. The Warriors problem has never been a refusal to spend money- it's been spending money foolishly.

Arenas left because the NBA CBA forbade them from offering more than the mid-level exception; it was just that WAS and LAC had more room that year and were permitted to offer max-type deals.

Richardson was dealt so we would be able to spend money on Ellis and Biedrins this offseason.

The Warriors hired Don Nelson- while still paying for Mike Montgomery. Again, that cost money.

The Warriors are currently 9 games above .500 with a payroll in the bottom 1/4th. They are not cheap. If anything, they have one of the best win/dollar spent ratios in the league, which implies shrewd spending (evidenced by the ability to field rotation-quality guys like Barnes, Watson, and Azubuike for dirt cheap out of no where and finding a quality second rounder in Monta Ellis).

The Warriors are not cheap. Stupid, perhaps. But not cheap.

Kaizen.

02-09-2008, 12:56 AM

Just got tickets to the up coming Warriors vs. Suns game!!!!!!

So is Shaq going to make it by the 13th of Feb?

ANVIL

02-10-2008, 03:37 AM

Just got tickets to the up coming Warriors vs. Suns game!!!!!!

So is Shaq going to make it by the 13th of Feb?

ive been reading thats his Target Debut.

yzlvca99

02-13-2008, 03:40 PM

does anyone have any info if shaq is playing tonight?

Is it just me or does anyone else get anoyed when the anouncers say
"L-O" instead of "Odom" or "Lamar. shits played out

imnotmatt1189

02-13-2008, 04:17 PM

jason kidd got traded to the mavs!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvVzHjt_7X.FPfMoJGZkiyg5nYcB?slug=aw-kiddtraded021308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

damn so many stacked west teams!

ALTRNTV

02-13-2008, 04:36 PM

The Mavericks are giving up Devin Harris, Devean George, Jerry Stackhouse,
DeSegana Diop, Maurice Ager, and a package of draft picks, for a 34- year old
Jason Kidd. I really don't understand that move at all, same with the Suns trade.
They both trade young and talented players for two players past their 30's (past their primes).
The Lakers get rid of a bust, and acquire a 27 year- old, who hasn't reached his prime
yet, and still have a 7-foot monster developing. We're going to be a force to be reckoned
with for the next 5+ years. In 2 years time, Mark Cuban and Mike D'antoni will be sitting next
to Pat Riley in the Lottery Draft Pick.

The Mavs frontcourt just a litte softer, and their defense just got worse.
Dampier & Dirk < Bynum & Pau
Dampier & Dirk < Amare & Shaq
Dampier & Dirk < West & Chandler
Dampier & Dirk < Duncan & Oberto

Lakers trade Cook/Evans to Orlando for Ariza - Nice
Lakers trade Brown/Crittenton to Memphis for Gasol - Extra Nice
Suns and Mavs hitting the panic button - Priceless

This year's Western Conference playoffs (the real playoffs) will be one of the best in years!

Xandy Boosts

02-13-2008, 04:44 PM

Hell yea, I've never been this glued to the entire NBA ever since the 2000-2004 seasons. Now all the NBA needs to do is have a fucking triple header on NBC...err ABC every Sunday and the league will be great to watch again.

ALTRNTV

02-13-2008, 04:47 PM

I hate ABC. I wish the NBA was back on NBC.

Remember this? "This is the NBA on NBC"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHJBbm9ZEs

I get chills hearing the intro music!
I also like how the Lakers swept Kidd
and the Nets in that game. :keke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQ2r6P8Sok

http://www.clublakers.com/inc/shaqman.swf

Rob's S14

02-13-2008, 05:22 PM

I don't think Shaq is returning until after the all star break. It gives him an extra 5 days I think and makes his first game back vs the Lakers.

Gnnr

02-13-2008, 08:37 PM

I really don't understand that move at all, same with the Suns trade.

That trade makes less sense than the Suns trade. Lakers have made the best trade out of everyone.

Xandy Boosts

02-13-2008, 08:53 PM

hahaha devean george strikes!

mos def about the NBC on NBC intro. It ALWAYS gave me the chills hearing it...something about it.

Xandy Boosts

02-13-2008, 08:58 PM

Just watched the second video. Damn I miss watching guys like miller, barkley, stockton/malone, etc. I mean I love the game right now, but those guys from the 80s and 90s was jus something else. Basketball was just more intense back then. Hopefully the Kidd trade DOES go down and brings back that craziness the NBA has been missing.

Like I was saying earlier about triple headers on NBC. During the season, my FAVORITE day of the week was SUNDAY. I would wake up early, try to brush my teeth if I have time, then turn on the TV to NBC and watch games all day. Loved every minute of it.

Adding, I'm so hardcore about the NBC on NBC that I had that song play during my computer startup :keke: I had to take it down eventually cuz it would lag haha.

OptionZero

02-13-2008, 10:02 PM

Devean George is a mediocre (at best) role player (at best) who got stupidly signed to a multiyear deal.

Is there any function left for him to serve OTHER than trade filler?

When any shit player signs a multi year contract, shouldn't they KNOW...my value will peak not as a player in his prime, but as an shit piece in a bigger trade?

More over, I would like to meet the executive who was fuckin stupid enough to give DEVEAN GEORGE a no-trade clause...given that his role in life is to BE TRADED.

gosu22

02-13-2008, 10:38 PM

I think Dallas is giving up WAAAY too much for JKidd.

ALTRNTV

02-14-2008, 02:20 AM

^
You think?!

In my opinion, that was a desperation move by the Mavericks.
Don't get me wrong, I love Jason Kidd, but I don't think he's worth
what they traded for him, and the fact that he's 36.

ALTRNTV

02-14-2008, 02:36 AM

Wait... WHAT THE? Devean George BLOCKED the trade?!
WTF is going on here... I need to do more research on what
went down...

fliprayzin240sx

02-14-2008, 03:14 AM

Wow...if they trade kid, NJ will probably make the playoff with all those bodies.

Rob's S14

02-14-2008, 10:32 AM

He doesn't technically have a no trade clause. The rule states that a player signed to a one year deal who was with the same team the previous year can block a trade so that he can preserve his "Bird" rights.

If you don't know what bird rights are, look it up.

OptionZero

02-14-2008, 12:28 PM

yes, that makes sense.

Just like a 5th year player taking a qualifying offer gets veto powers

Rob's S14

02-14-2008, 01:54 PM

Well, it's a little bit different because 5th year players can have many different types of contracts. It doesn't look like it's gonna stop the trade though. People in Dallas were already booing him last night and heckling him for being selfish. Plus I'm sure his teammates aren't gonna be too happy if he holds up the trade that they all seem to want.

OptionZero

02-14-2008, 02:04 PM

A few places have mentioned Dallas could sign-and-trade Keith Van Horn as filler (sign and traded deal must be 3 years, but only 1 has to be guaranteed)

Others said the Mavs rights to KVH have expired.

In any case, I'm sure Cuban sends some thugs over to George's house and gets this all worked out.

Rob's S14

02-14-2008, 02:21 PM

They have already said they won't use Van Horn because it will cost way too much(40 million) just for kid. They do still have his rights until he either officially retires or is waived by the Mavs.

Gnnr

02-14-2008, 09:28 PM

People in Dallas were already booing him last night and heckling him for being selfish. Plus I'm sure his teammates aren't gonna be too happy if he holds up the trade that they all seem to want.

Why they want it is beyond me...can someone explain how this will benefit Dallas? :confused:

ALTRNTV

02-15-2008, 04:40 AM

It doesn't. To me (and on paper), it actually makes them more offensively and defensively weak. Kidd is an aging 35 year old "past his prime" guard with a year or two left in his tank. They are going to trade for Devin Harris, who has a better efficiency than Kidd, and is about 10 years younger, with all the upside in the world.

Like I said before:
Lakers trade Cook/Evans to Orlando for Ariza - Nice
Lakers trade Brown/Crittenton to Memphis for Gasol - Extra Nice
Suns and Mavs hitting the panic button - Priceless
There are some things money can't buy, for everything else,
there's an agingveteranwhoyoucantradeyouryoungandupcomingplay
ersforandgetreallynothingmuchinreturnexceptanoldgu ywhothinkshecanstillplay.

Xandy Boosts

02-15-2008, 11:02 AM

ruh roh for the Mav's. Sounds like some Minnesota Joe Smith type things may be happening there.

League To Look At Stackhouse Comments
February 15, 2008 - 10:16 am
Yahoo! -
http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Stackhouse_Jerry_dal.jpg
Jerry Stackhouse and the Dallas Mavericks may be in trouble, according to Yahoo! Sports columnist Adrian Wojnarowski, after Stackhouse revealed plans to be bought out of his contract with the Nets should the proposed trade for Jason Kidd go ahead and then return to Dallas as a free agent.

According to the report, several league sources said the NBA will consider forbidding Stackhouse to re-sign with the Mavericks this season as punishment for public comments the forward made on Wednesday that suggested tampering could have occurred.

Without Stackhouse coming back into the fold, some are questioning if Cuban would pull the trigger on the trade since he is losing so much depth. Stackhouse said that he was only part of the deal "to make the numbers work."

"I feel great," Stackhouse said. "I get 30 days to rest then I'll be right back. I ain't going nowhere."

Gnnr

02-15-2008, 11:10 AM

oooh, its getting interesting now http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gambit25/smilies/popcorn.gif

Phlip

02-15-2008, 11:15 AM

Hell yeah, this is getting like one of those soap operas, only this is actually entertaining. Everyone in the league, especially in the west, has been made desperate as hell by ONE move

OptionZero

02-15-2008, 12:12 PM

Part of me wants to deal Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson just for the kick of seeing what we could get.

Shaun Livingston's rights, Al Thornton, and a couple picks and expiring contracts?

Rob's S14

02-15-2008, 12:48 PM

You've got to be kidding. If I were the clippers I would agree to that deal before you finished your sentence. Honestly, I don't think anybody in the west wants to play GS.

Only one more week til the trade deadline, wonder how many more deals will go down.

OptionZero

02-15-2008, 01:02 PM

Well its been an insanely up and down year for Warrior fans.

That loss to Chicago was ridiculously lame; we've had similar games against Minnesota, Indiana, New Jersey, Houston....

The team thrives on emotion but comes out flat on a consistent basis, and they don't have the discipline to grind it out. Kills ya.

Rob's S14

02-15-2008, 01:25 PM

Yeah I agree, but trading BD is not the answer. If anyone they should trade Pietrus and maybe Biedrins. Pietrus already wants to leave and Biedrins value is at it's peak right now. I think what GS is missing is an athletic big guy that likes to play down low, not that it's an easy piece to get, but that would totally change their potential. They would be able to play against anybody.

OptionZero

02-15-2008, 01:49 PM

Um, no, I'm going to say fuck that shit.

Trading Pietrus, sure, but he's a role player (a bad one). Dealing him is a minor change at best, but one that won't bring anything back. He's an expiring contract that doesn't come with Bird Rights; at best we'll get a lesser talented expiring contract and a second rounder. Pietrus has lived his career on the potential of being a lockdown defender, but he's been too stupid to realize any of it.

Look up Biedrins per minute numbers- they compare favorably to any young big in the league. He's playing fewer than 30 MPG and dropping more or less a double double with the best FG% in the league. Young bigs do not move w/o the ball or defend in space like he does....Biedrins is going to be a Marcus Camby on defense and the glass, and he's 21. You do NOT trade Andris Biedrins unless it's in a package for a franchise big- none of which is currently on the block (let's not even bring up the joke that is Jermaine O'Neal). The Warriors need to add, not trade away their best big man.

If anything, I wonder if the Nuggets might be persuaded to trade Nene, either for the TPE for salary relief (part of a 3 way where we facilitate the deal) or Harrington and Petey.

Otherwise, I am more than content with waiting for a Brandan Wright/Andris Biedrins frontcourt to develop.

ManoNegra

02-15-2008, 02:09 PM

Part of me wants to deal Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson just for the kick of seeing what we could get.

Shaun Livingston's rights, Al Thornton, and a couple picks and expiring contracts?

Those two are the only GS players I know of off top of my head. Shaun Livingston had a lot of potential before that gnarly injury to his knee. He's a gamble at best now, don't think this would be a good move on the part of GS.

Don't like what Devon George is doing but I don't have a problem with it. NBA is business, teams lookout for their best interests all the time irregardless of loyalty and all. George is just looking after his best interests. Having said that, I too agree, he has never been that great of a player.

Rob's S14

02-15-2008, 02:26 PM

I think Biedrins is awesome, but what I don't get is why they don't play him. If he improved his shooting, he basically would be a Marcus Camby type. I don't see GS making any significant moves. I think after this season a few contracts come off their payroll giving them flexibility, unless they were to trade those same expiring deals for picks. Their core is too good, and everyone is young.

BTW, irregardless isn't a word.

OptionZero

02-15-2008, 06:30 PM

The Warriors have little flexibility actually. Pietrus and Barnes are UFA's; Azubuike, Ellis, Biedrins, and POB are RFAs; Baron has a player option.

BD will not leave $17M on the table so he's going to stay (or opt out to sign an extension, either way he sticks).

Pietrus walks, POB probably iet let go.

Ellis and Biedrins will get extensions of starting salary totaling roughly $17M; Azubuike should get around $3.5 (somewhere between Raja Bell and Deshawn Stevenson money).

That, plus keeping Barnes if possible with part of the MLE and their draft picks eat up all their space under the luxury tax.

Biedrins doesn't play because:

1) Nellie is a stubborn fool that insists on going smaller and smaller
2) Nellie is a genius who's holding him down so he can't put up numbers in a contract year and year a bigger pay check
3) Beans is tired fro playing in the FIBA Euro tournament.

I suspect its primarily #1 with bits of #2 (unintentional) and #3 (intentional) in there.

Frankly, I think Ellis is a product of the system, propped up by Baron, Jack, and Nellie, because his defense sucks monkey balls and his decision making is pretty poor. Giving small shooting guards close to $10M makes me hugely nervous.

Phlip

02-15-2008, 07:06 PM

I have seen it mentioned a couple times, and I knew what it meant, but not all reading may... "Bird Rights"
Larry Bird exception

Perhaps the most well-known of the NBA's salary cap exceptions, it is so named because the Boston Celtics were the first team permitted to exceed the salary cap to re-sign one of their own players (in that case, Larry Bird). Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "qualifying veteran free agents" or "Bird Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception falls under the auspices of the Veteran Free Agent exception. In a nutshell, the Larry Bird exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, at an amount up to the maximum salary. To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination thereof. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. Bird-exception contracts can be up to six years in length.

ALTRNTV

02-19-2008, 09:53 PM

All-Star Weekend was good. Dwight Howard went nuts.

Looks like J Kidd is officially a Maverick. I don't understand
that deal at all.

Lakers up by 41 against the Hawks. We'll see how much
they annihilate them by. :keke:

Xandy Boosts

02-19-2008, 10:19 PM

Did you see that kobe dunk before the end of the 2nd? Looks like his pinky is fine :keke:

BOROSUN

02-20-2008, 02:06 AM

yay east!

can't wait for tomorrow shaq debut.

Phlip

02-20-2008, 02:02 PM

As I look over this whole Jason Kidd deal, I do not see how the Mavericks made themselves any better, in a west who has put on a whole lot as far as big men go, while at the same time giving up youth on knees that can't possibly have but a couple more seasons left in them, as much as I love Jason Kidd.
I am guessing he is going back to Dallas to make good on his draft-night promise to "turn them around, 360 degrees," basically seeing them back into the toilet before he is done.

ALTRNTV

02-20-2008, 02:08 PM

Why would he want to turn them around 360degrees? They'll be right back where they started from. lol

Phlip

02-20-2008, 02:12 PM

Why would he want to turn them around 360degrees? They'll be right back where they started from. lol

That, sir, is why it is fucking hilarious that he actually said it... Youtube it.

Rob's S14

02-20-2008, 02:57 PM

I think it does help them, but not in the long run, and if you look at the west this year even before all the trades, I still don't think they had a chance.

What it does is keep a more fluid offense running instead of a lot of the one on one play that they break down into in their halfcourt sets. Yes, Kidd isn't the greatest defender anymore but he should be able to get by the same way Cassell does on the Clips. Plus their fast break will be much better. Dirk should also get a boost in confidence from being with Kidd...that should make him play more loose.

ALTRNTV

02-20-2008, 03:36 PM

Lakers @ Phoenix tonight.
Shaq's debut.
If the Lakers win, they will have possession of first place
in the Pacific Division, and 2nd in the West, 1/2 a game
behind New Orleans.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2107/shaqsigdj0.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/nash_gq_051202_01.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/nash_gq_051202_02.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/nash_gq_051202_03.jpg

Fuck, I'll be at work though. :(

Xandy Boosts

02-20-2008, 03:56 PM

I'll be at work too but Sopcast baby. SOPCAAAASTT!!!!!

ALTRNTV

02-20-2008, 04:01 PM

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/images/captpnu11304270535lakers_suns_basketball.jpg
http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2006/04-27/lakers_suns_basketball16_300.jpg
http://www.cyberbaal.com/randomville/temp/kobe_over_nash.jpg

gottrees

02-20-2008, 06:48 PM

lakers are gonnna whoop on the suns tonite!

Xandy Boosts

02-20-2008, 07:43 PM

see that Kobe throwdown at the end of the 1st! wooooooooooooooooo

fliprayzin240sx

02-20-2008, 08:33 PM

Shiet I had to go back to work after watching the first 8 mins...I saw that block by Kobe from the weak side on Diaw. That was classic too, easy dunk...nopes, get that shit outta here...

Anyways, just looked up the score...Lakers up by 8 couple mins into the 3rd. Shaqs not a good pick, hes getting killed on the pick and roll when I saw. Half the times, he just stood there like a tree, didnt even bother rotating or keeping up with Gasol...

Xandy Boosts

02-20-2008, 09:52 PM

woot Lakers win!

Gnnr

02-20-2008, 09:55 PM

Suns made some dumb plays at the end. Lakers had it in control the whole time. Great game though!

ManoNegra

02-20-2008, 10:00 PM

Lakers! Awesome game, way to assert themselves.

hippo_chips

02-20-2008, 10:40 PM

Shaq knocked the sh!t out of Bell. Hahahaha, you see that lump on Bell's head. I thought he was floppin trying to pretend someone else hit him, but seeing that lump, DAMN. Was a good game, Lakers closed it up real nice. Kobe, are you sure your pinky is injured? Hahaha.

Xandy Boosts

02-20-2008, 10:56 PM

he just didn't wanna play in the all-star game!

OptionZero

02-21-2008, 12:16 AM

What we learned from the first Shaq game, v the Lakers no less:

He'll make Amare into a rebounder. It's hard to rebound by urself against 2, 3, even 4 other guys; it's considerably easier when your frontcourt mate draws two guys to box out.

Shaq's gonna take 2-3 weeks to figure out how to play in a spread offense instead of the triangle or post-oriented scheme.

Amare really, really blows on defense. Marion was really, really important. If you bothered watching the defensive rotations you saw...pretty much none. Marion was the roaming defender that blocked shots, switched out on 4 positions and got steals through footspeed and activity and awareness; no one else on the Suns brings the defensive energy and commitment. When Shaq left the game, Amare was a sieve, failing to defend the rim or help teammates that got beat. I guess we all know the truth (what I suspected for some time); Marion was what made that Suns ship "work", because you can't have liabilities like Nash, Amare, and Barbosa playing mega minutes unless someone's willing to do the dirty work. That dude was Marion.

Bell is a pretty good defender. Kobe's and ungodly scorer. Simple.

ALTRNTV

02-21-2008, 03:21 AM

Lakers with 1st place in the Pacific, and 2nd in the West.
I don't think anyone can beat them in a 7-game series, no,
not even the Spurs. Granted, we got out rebounded by 14,
but we still won without our leading rebounder in the game.
Suns are now 5-13 against the West's top 8 teams... not good
if you're going to meet them in the playoffs. I don't even think
the Lakers are going to see the Suns in the playoffs, another team
like New Orleans or Utah (choose any team, actually), to knock
them out.

If they play this good without Bynum, I wonder how much better
they'll be when he's back.

PHOENIX - Shaquille O'Neal, who has made up with Kobe Bryant and seems more at ease with the Lakers, offered nothing but praise.

O'Neal, more than three years removed from his days with LA, had kind words about Bryant and the Lakers before making his Suns debut Wednesday night.

"Kobe is the best player in the game right now, and the Lakers are playing very well," O'Neal said. "This is probably a team that we will have to see in the playoffs. So it's going to be a good test."

The Lakers and Suns have met in the playoffs the past two years, with Phoenix the winner both times. Coach Phil Jackson and Suns coach Mike D'Antoni have exchanged words.

This has become a more intense rivalry, and now O'Neal has been added to the mix.

"I don't know if it can be any more (intense)," D'Antoni said. "It's pretty good. ... Hopefully, we don't meet them in the playoffs.

"It's a great rivalry. It's not heated. It's just good for basketball -- good competition, and with Shaq it just draws attention even more. And we've added one of the most dominant players in the league in the last 15 years on our team, so we feel pretty good."

O'Neal said he will defer to Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire and doesn't need as many touches as in past years.

"This is a well-oiled machine," O'Neal said. "I don't want to be the spark plug that slows us down."

The Suns know the Lakers improved by acquiring Pau Gasol and "feel like we have a better chance and are better prepared to win a championship" with O'Neal, D'Antoni said.

"That has to galvanize you, as it has the Lakers. You watch them the last few games with Gasol, they have an extra bounce in their step and they're playing really well. They've got a little bit of a head start on us, but we'll try to catch up."Funny how he said that BEFORE the game. I wonder what
he thinks now?

My beloved Lakers wont go anywhere until they get serious about building a team around Kobe, but we'll see....maybe they'll surprise me this year. I doubt it, but they're my team. FOOOOR EEEEE VER.
Jay, remember that? That was the 2nd post of this thread, ;)

------------------------------
Saw these on another forum, thought they were pretty funny.

If you have $10 and Kobe has $10, Kobe has more money than you do.

Kobe can believe it's not butter.

Kobe once played Russian roulette with a fully load gun and won.

Kobe once performed open heart surgery........................................... ..................
on himself.

Kobe has died twice, but is still alive.

Kobe Bryant doesn't shoot the ball, he tells the ball to go in.

the Lakers didn't sign Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant signed the Lakers.

Shaq didn't demand a trade from the Lakers. Kobe traded his ass.

Those are hilarious.
-------------------------------------

http://i29.tinypic.com/2h4hvkw.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080221/capt.947eefd88fe14ad984f837aa750f5901.lakers_suns_ basketball_pnu113.jpg

Anyone see the GS/BOS game? That was a pretty damn good game also.
BD coming through in the clutch!

Phlip

02-21-2008, 06:37 AM

Hold on, Simoun... Remember this?
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=1617501&postcount=28
Kobe, get the fuck off my team already. This bitching and complaining is just pissin' me off now. I'd rather have people who play, instead of just "going through the motions" as he's doing lately. I never thought I would EVER say that.

Go Lakers.
Sure, it was a shared sentiment among Lakers' fans, including myself to an extent, NONE of us expected this to happen, period.

ManoNegra

02-21-2008, 09:03 AM

^lol... so true, it still all feels like a dream.

s13poop

02-21-2008, 10:39 AM

last night was a hell of a game i was pounding down a whiskey river BBQ burger at red robin while watching the game

pau gasol and kobe were definately doing work i'm glad LA basketball is getting outta its slump :bigok:

Xandy Boosts

02-21-2008, 11:23 AM

Oh man I wonder what I said earlier in this thread. And isn't it great to see the celtics lose to denver and warriors b2b

ALTRNTV

02-21-2008, 12:19 PM

Trade deadline is today! Let's see who else makes moves.

Hold on, Simoun... Remember this?
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showpost.php?p=1617501&postcount=28

Sure, it was a shared sentiment among Lakers' fans, including myself to an extent, NONE of us expected this to happen, period.
:keke: I was hoping you wouldn't quote me on that.

Phlip

02-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Now this desperation shit is beginning to become annoying:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7824712?MSNHPHMA
Bonzi Wells?

Gnnr

02-21-2008, 02:10 PM

Oh man I wonder what I said earlier in this thread. And isn't it great to see the celtics lose to denver and warriors b2b

Don't read too much into it. They're longest losing streak is 2 this season. They're a .788 team as of right now. I don't see them losing to the Suns after seeing last nights performance, and Garnett just got back from an injury.

Rob's S14

02-21-2008, 03:09 PM

Phlip

02-21-2008, 03:50 PM

That actually wasn't too bad of a deal for the hornets. They get an expiring contract and free up 2 roster spots to go after any free agent if they choose to. Plus Bonzi and and James are good bench players, better than what they currently had.

Bonzi is NOT a good bench player and that is his problem... He WOULD be a good bench player if he would play up to that, but instead he wants the minutes and touches of a superstar and goes diva when he doesn't get it... THAT is why he has become such a journeyman player.

Vision Garage

02-21-2008, 04:04 PM

Well Kobe is getting the team he wanted. Lets see if he can capitalize on it.

Rob's S14

02-21-2008, 04:19 PM

Phlip

02-21-2008, 04:37 PM

Even if Bonzi isn't good or great...he's still an expiring contract which is perfect for the hornets. They're prob not gonna win a championship this year anyways, but this way they get some playoff experience, and with the cap room freed up, they'll be able to improve during the offseason. So worst case scenario they cleared up cap space. If he gives them anything, it's just a bonus.
And that fact is probably the best thing about the deal for the hornets, I guess we can only watch and see what happens from here.
*ALSO*
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7825380/Cavs,-Bulls,-Sonics-pull-off-11-player-trade?MSNHPHMA
... apparently Danny Ferry is serious about not losing LeBron as a free agent when his player option comes up, much like Dwyane Wade will (and should) do Pat Riley when his does.

OptionZero

02-21-2008, 05:29 PM

well, I'm gonna disagree; I have the Hornets as one of my winners:

-Winners-
San Antonio
picked up Kurt Thomas for two expirings and a first they didn't need. They took on zero future salary obligations, lost none of their core, and got an excellent frontcourt defender to play next to Duncan. With Thomas and Oberto, they have a couple of solid bigs to man up on Gasol/Bynum and Shaq/Amare. On the flip side, neither Gasol, bynum, shaq, or amare can guard Duncan... This was a typical understated but effective San Antonio move.

New Orleans
They needed perimeter depth and now they got it. Wells is a headcase, but he can play, and he's better than Rasual Butler. Mike James gives them some bench scoring the backcourt, which they had none of. They didn't give up anything. The health of Chris Paul was pretty much the only worry, and now they can get him some rest. Wells hasn't had any off-court issues I've heard of this year; playing with a pass-first point guard means he will get the ball and he will get to score.

Seattle
They already got 2 firsts to TAKE Kurt Thomas, now they get another to LOSE kurt thomas; they also relieved themselves of Wally Szerbiak's contract with the smaller Donyell Marshal K and some expirings. Thats clever GM-ing. The only better move would have been ditching Watson or Ridnour, but i expect that to occur this offseason.

Cleveland
Hughes really, really sucks. Ben Wallace should look better at PF next to Ilgaukis. Wally Z will be the new old Jason Kapono playing with Lebron; Joe Smith is a smarter, more experienced PF than Drew Gooden, and Delonte West is a quality combo guard. Lebron can stop whining now.

-Losers-
Orlando
Otis Smith. Magic fans should be burning his house down. They needed another quality big, and came away with nothing despite having a pretty nice package of expirings (Arroyo/Dooling/Garrity) and JJ Reddick and their picks to deal. How bout stealing Brad Miller? Jermaine O'Neal? Something? Instead they get nothing. I will take an aggressive GM over an inept one any day.

New York
Pretty much any move would have made them better, they were that bad. instead they did nothing

Warriors
Did nothing, lost Andris Biedrins for a week or so with an appendicitis. Standing still is moving backwards in the West

New power rankings
-West-
1. LAL - Few teams can guard Kobe; no teams can guard Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom

2. NOH - I believe in Chris Paul

3. SAS - Parker's health worrisome, but Duncan means they're still elite

4. UTA - Also pretty unguardable, but they have the least defense of the top 4 teams

5. PHX - Loss of Marion will be felt; Shaq doesn't play D these days

6. DAL - Kidd move makes them an easier matchup, imo, and now they have less frontcourt depth

7. DEN - Melo/Iverson is a flawed pairing and will get exposed in the post season (again). Tough matchup at individual positions, but not enough teamwork

8/9. GS/HOU- Warriors drive me crazy, but I do not believe in T-Mac. Honestly could see either team falling out in ugly fashion.

-East-
1. Detroit - depth and balance give them the edge over BOS, when they put their minds to it their defense is ungodly

2. BOS - they bring the defense, but i do not believe in Rondo

...

4. CLE- more depth now, still short on talent

...
...
...
...
8. Atlanta - Bibby separates them from "everyone else", but thats about it

9. who gives a fuck?