The downfall of men in the US [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

FaLKoN240

10-10-2007, 08:01 PM

Since the late 1970's, young women have soared in college attendance while young men have stagnated. Young men's literacy is declining. Many young men are disengaging from school. Young men are less likely to be valedictorians, to be on the honor roll, and to be active in organizations like student government. Young men are more likely to get D's and F's, to be suspended or expelled from school, to drop out of school, and to commit suicide.

I heard about this on NPR radio while I was in LA, and the whole topic I found pretty engaging.

I thought I'd post this up because Zilvia is a male dominant forum, and since the ages of all the members vary this would be a good discussion topic.

Here's the doctor's website: http://boysadrift.com/home.php

The most recent article: http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6472910.html

Farzam

10-10-2007, 08:17 PM

Don't judge me.

bboyt3nsk

10-10-2007, 08:19 PM

I have heard something about this before.

Nice post, very interesting.

IIIXziuR

10-10-2007, 08:21 PM

Don't judge me.

Fuck yes.
I think men are just getting lazier.
I mean its just easier to marry the broads who are getting the good jobs.
Lawlz

FaLKoN240

10-10-2007, 08:40 PM

Don't judge me.

I'm not judging anyone, I'm stating a mere study I found interesting. Please don't take this personally.

Fuck yes.
I think men are just getting lazier.
I mean its just easier to marry the broads who are getting the good jobs.
Lawlz

The doctor that wrote this book addressed that as well in the NPR interview I heard.

ixfxi

10-10-2007, 09:29 PM

ramblux

10-10-2007, 10:07 PM

ioNo wtF ur tAlKin boUt

I blame the Internet for everything. Seriously. It has made people too lazy to fucking type out complete words and phrases.

Edgar

10-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Mike, you are correct.

Its the internetz that have made us like this, and video games.

FaLKoN240

10-10-2007, 10:30 PM

I personally suck at school because I am addicted to the internets.

I am currently trying to do hw but taking forever because of Zilvia and gmail. :-/

Kn1ves

10-10-2007, 11:29 PM

College is for people without talent.

yokotas13

10-10-2007, 11:35 PM

Forget the fact that most men nowadays are not men, but boys who proudly exchange their testicles for a over-dominant woman that can "bring in the bread." With that said, I dont see the above as a surprise...

Conversely, men such as myself chose NOT to complete school because of the high costs of schooling, lack of interest and disbelief in the school system. I personally believe that many teachers should not be teaching. Teachers are typically underpaid. What am I going to learn from someone who is far from successful? Not that I measure success through earnings, but I think you can learn a lot more from people that your own mentors and influences.

Might as well follow your own life and career, and leave the lemming-work to whoever wants to stay in school.
ding ding

i joined the military, so i could get credible on the job training, and training documentation.
That way, when i retire, i have my retirement pay, as well as all my qualifications frmo aircraft mechanics, and whatever else i cross train into (hopefully media or OSI....like high profile cops)
fuck school IMO.
noone cares these days what your degree is in

azndoc

10-10-2007, 11:39 PM

But women are still under paid

I've got bills once its paid then I'll do the school thing and change your mind.

DRavenS13

10-10-2007, 11:43 PM

But women are still under paid

Tis true. Women have to work a lot harder for that little extra pay in their check. There are some guys at work that have been here for the same time as I have, and they get paid more. When I used to work at hospitals, I knew guys that did less than I did, and they got paid more there too. The only trade off I think is that women get more leniency when it comes to time off to deal with family issues, or girl issues.

Vision Garage

10-11-2007, 12:04 AM

Its not what you know, ITS WHO YOU KNOW! Yes guys get the better end of the stick but thats just how it is i guess. Guys do more physical labor than girls so it balances!

eastcoastS14

10-11-2007, 12:13 AM

I think everyone should give college a try if you can afford it....I stayed undeclared and took a lot of classes I was interested in and have learned a lot of great information.FFinally declared as a business management major, and I have a minor in poli sci now too. I just turned 20 so not really in a hurry to get a job. I can say though that in college I think guys are more likely to slack off stay out and party and chase after the girls...while the girls tend to get their work done then go out, and some how still make it to class....i guess college looks good on your resume and ill probably go to grad school too to get my masters, so hopefully ill have that by the time im 23 or 24 and start makin the big bux:yum:

DRavenS13

10-11-2007, 12:23 AM

SO..... break the cycle. Teach your sons to be responsible men and do for their lives, and stop worrying about chasing tail- until all other important priorities have been met.

ixfxi

10-11-2007, 12:39 AM

Tis true. Women have to work a lot harder for that little extra pay in their check.

Either that, or they have to suck a lot of dick to get a head. Wait, I meant to say ahead, sorry.

Funny, I was viewing some HIN videos that my customer took this morning and my wife said "its amazing how sluts like this set women back in life."

Here's a vid, for those curious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNH3oYOKsSU

I absolutely LOVE the dialogue at the beginning of this fucking video:
Girl> I have a cute outfit on...
Random Guy> We don't care, take it off! Just do it dammit! I'm wasting film! Hurry Up!

trsilvias13

10-11-2007, 12:42 AM

girls complain, file sexual harassment suits, call IT for help, have maturnity leave, get "stressful" over little things, have "one of those days", call in sick for the little things, have a goal (hours) - all things I observed

Guy - man up - figure stuff out themself, move stuff themself, sick days are for hang over, just work(no goal, just complete the job)

Vision Garage

10-11-2007, 12:51 AM

hahaha. Draven you got any opposing arguments?

mRclARK1

10-11-2007, 12:59 AM

"Men" today (and actually all people in general really) are lazy. End of story.

kingsol

10-11-2007, 01:35 AM

I personally believe that many teachers should not be teaching. Teachers are typically underpaid. What am I going to learn from someone who is far from successful? Not that I measure success through earnings, but I think you can learn a lot more from people that your own mentors and influences.

Might as well follow your own life and career, and leave the lemming-work to whoever wants to stay in school.

The lemming work to those who stay IN school?! haha! You're logic and facts are out of whack.

Without an education, one is forced to severely limit the number of paths to take in life, left merely with simple interests and, at best, an elementary knowledge of said interest. A degree on the other hand provides flexibility, stability, and assurance when in the job field. Moreover, school will always multiply your possible paths and better equip you for whatever it is you're doing.

I find it very odd to have to justify school and am, quite frankly, shocked by the many negative views on education. More than just the job opportunities, school offers perspective, experience, and the environment necessary for most to progress. And getting a job and being successful will be but a by-product of my time in school, as I have already gained so much from my experiences at the college level.

It is always difficult to convince someone that they're missing out if they've never had that experience, but let me assure you... you're missing out.

Matej

10-11-2007, 01:39 AM

Haha the internet has ruined my life, seriously, I used to have hobbies and aspired to be something, now I just browse these stupid forums all day.

Dirty Habit

10-11-2007, 03:55 AM

Seriously WTF happened?

We went from:
http://www.elimin8.net/cpr/gLDxU_EASTWOOD.jpg

To:
http://myspace-074.vo.llnwd.net/00357/47/01/357881074_l.jpg

Yuri

10-11-2007, 10:58 AM

To:
http://myspace-074.vo.llnwd.net/00357/47/01/357881074_l.jpg

She's cute.

:rofl:

Kn1ves

10-11-2007, 11:03 AM

The lemming work to those who stay IN school?! haha! You're logic and facts are out of whack.

Without an education, one is forced to severely limit the number of paths to take in life, left merely with simple interests and, at best, an elementary knowledge of said interest. A degree on the other hand provides flexibility, stability, and assurance when in the job field. Moreover, school will always multiply your possible paths and better equip you for whatever it is you're doing.

I find it very odd to have to justify school and am, quite frankly, shocked by the many negative views on education. More than just the job opportunities, school offers perspective, experience, and the environment necessary for most to progress. And getting a job and being successful will be but a by-product of my time in school, as I have already gained so much from my experiences at the college level.

It is always difficult to convince someone that they're missing out if they've never had that experience, but let me assure you... you're missing out.

So much uncertainty

steve shadows

10-11-2007, 11:05 AM

hey whatever I date submissive sided women typically, dominant woman are only good for rough hate sex.

I still watch firefox and shit as loud as possible in public stalls

I also belch when lifting weights with the guys and open the door for the ladies no matter how fat they are.

Knights? what happened to that.

ixfixi your just a complainer too, Im sure your just a patronzing fuck to most people, thats not the trait of true man either.

most guys are boys until they are 30 anyways.

A lot never grow up, god bless all thos faggot pussy hippies in the 60s and 70s for totally imasculating the male society of America and the massive break down in familiy structure in the US, and the rise to whordom (which was masked as feminism) which basically says, "why can't I be a slut too"

Fine be a man, then, you pay the bills, Ill stay home and watch queer eye.

drifting_changed_mylife

10-11-2007, 11:06 AM

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/sbreik/devolution.jpg

this says it all but i think they forgot the little emo kid at the very end

Yuri

10-11-2007, 11:22 AM

Knights? what happened to that.

The US never had knights.
The UK still does.
For example:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x158/DKapt/connerygg56.jpg

ixfxi

10-11-2007, 04:54 PM

And getting a job and being successful will be but a by-product of my time in school, as I have already gained so much from my experiences at the college level.

It is always difficult to convince someone that they're missing out if they've never had that experience, but let me assure you... you're missing out.

Yeah, you are right.. you can learn a lot in college, or when you go to get your masters or PHD - assuming you can remember the lessons you were taught and should have learned.

Just because you can remember something for an exam, doesnt mean you have the knowledge 5 or even 10 years from when you learned it - and it doesnt mean you'll even be remotely close to being able to apply it in the REAL WORLD. Especially when you take into consideration the amount of partying and drinking that most college kids are subjected to.

While knowledge is nice, real life experience is more important.

You can go back and fourth, but the reality is we ALL will experience life and become weathered ONE way or another. Its a fact that pretty much every honest and successful person will have to pay taxes, bills, mortgage, food, insurances, etc - and with that comes the fact that we all need to be able to stay afloat.

Its pointless to compare school vs no-school because we all end up in the real world being exposed to the above, and regardless of how much education you've achieved and how brilliant you are - you will be an absolute failure if you cant pay back your loans and work towards a successful future.

Either path is acceptable, as long as you are sharp enough to stay afloat. If your career path needs school, fine - if it doesnt, fine. But there are a lot of individuals who go to school, get their degree(s), have no idea about real life.. and still work a dead-end job taking commands from the boss. Same can apply to uneducated folks, repetitive manual labor is a bitch.

steve shadows

10-11-2007, 04:58 PM

repitive manual labor is easy

kingsol

10-11-2007, 05:45 PM

You can go back and fourth, but the reality is we ALL will experience life and become weathered ONE way or another. Its a fact that pretty much every honest and successful person will have to pay taxes, bills, mortgage, food, insurances, etc - and with that comes the fact that we all need to be able to stay afloat.

Either path is acceptable, as long as you are sharp enough to stay afloat. If your career path needs school, fine - if it doesnt, fine. But there are a lot of individuals who go to school, get their degree(s), have no idea about real life.. and still work a dead-end job taking commands from the boss. Same can apply to uneducated folks, repetitive manual labor is a bitch.

It is true that we will all experience independent life, gaining, along the way, some sort of handle that would allow us to survive and not become homeless, but, let it be known, that experience varies widely. It is, of course, sufficient to simply pick up some sort of trade (usually physical, repetitive labor) and develop a proficiency, which allows one, as you say, to stay "afloat".

Those with a degree are not exempt from such a reality, however, again, there are more options: doctor, lawyer, business man, etc. But you're right though, there are some people who have no idea what's going on in school or not, but I'd say they'd have a much easier time finding their way if in school with the ongoing job fairs throughout the year, recruiters, and info sessions. Granted, all those with a degree are not successful, but many of those who are successful have a degree.

I'd also argue that one needs to have an awareness of the importance of school in order to take full advantage of its benefits (i.e. not the constant party people who blow off school), and this is why I think it's important for people to not view further education so negatively.

az_240

10-11-2007, 06:16 PM

a lot of people dont know what they want to do in life.... so they go to school to get some direction and open some doors. Turns out its not what they expected.... most teachers suck, cant pass classes cuz they work to pay bills. Its very stressful going to school full time and trying to make it on your own.

I tried it.... couldnt do it.... now I owe a lot of money to the school and did not get a damn thing out of it.

From what I've seen unless you know exactly what you want to do for a career and stick to it school is a big money hole.

I have friends that are out of college with degrees and they are still working at Costco and Frys because they simply make more money than what they went to school for.

illvialuver

10-11-2007, 06:17 PM

yeah i know wtf happened? I feel kind of guilty cause I hate school and struggle with attendance to early mornin classes, and I know its not helping the problem.

eastcoastS14

10-11-2007, 06:45 PM

go to school....can you be successful without school? Yes. Can you be way more successful with school? Its a strong possibility. You can make decent money with no schooling but not having that extra education can put a damper on your potential income. It has already been said but its the doctors, lawyers, corporate manager, accoutants etc who make the real money....and youd be hard pressed to find many if any of ppl in positions such as those who dont have a higher level of education. Apart from the random fluke like Bill Gates and Richard Branson or how ever you spell it....It is very unlikely that you will end up very wealthy with no college education....and Im not talking about well off....I mean "wealthy". Now is that to say that all people coming out of college will be millionaires? No. Its quite the contrary, but with that extra education all types of doors are open to you if you so choose to open them. Its easy to make comments about school and how college kids are suckers when youre looking in from the outside, but try it and you might find a whole world of possibilities......after all $40,000-$50,000 a year 2 years out of school to sit at a desk isnt too bad...

ixfxi

10-11-2007, 08:01 PM

Often times, young adults measure success the wrong way - success is not measured by income, success is measured by what you accomplish in life.

All too often, you find people bringing in an amazing salary, but they dont have enough time for their family (wife, children, whatever). The stresses of their work commitments effect their personal life, shit like affairs popup. Why? Because often times people over-stretch by associating income with success. Dont agree? These are *exactly* the same issues that popped up in the movie Devil's Advocate with Al Pacino. Watch it and you'll get a good dose of reality, and what happens after you're done with school. Its exactly like Notorious BIG says, Mo' Money Mo' Problems.. and thats a fact. The more you acquire in life, the more people work on trying to take it away from you. Hence the reason that some of the richest people in this world, downplay their appearance in order to stay out of the radar. (Again, much like Pacino's character in the movie).

School has its place, but I learned in my early twenties that it wasnt for me. I knew something was wrong when I found out that I was not only making more money than one of my professors, but I was 10 years younger than her and we both lived within blocks of eachother! I was single and living alone at the time and wouldnt of minded banging her, but thats besides the point. If your peers are dumbasses and you're subjected to scantron tests, I would highly advise searching for a better education.. or follow a career. Whatever you do, dont waste time with bullshit like scantrons. Thats not how people should be graded...

I too had a difficult time juggling a full time career being self employed with school, it was next to near impossible - atleast if you plan on having a social life. Personally, I've never believed that school or work should EVER take away your social life. Family and friends are just more important. I had a different, more profitable career back then.. but again, for me money does not equate into being successful.

Funny, I recall being a kid in elementary school saying "why the heck do i have to do homework when i get home? when i go to school, i learn and work hard. when i go home, i should be able to play nintendo. theres no reason for homework." i was stubborn then and i still believe the same thing now.

cdlong

10-11-2007, 10:34 PM

Often times, young adults measure success the wrong way - success is not measured by income, success is measured by what you accomplish in life.

as fitting with the rest of this discussion, everyone's experience is different. that's how you measure success. who are you to say someone else is wrong for having different goals?

DRavenS13

10-11-2007, 10:42 PM

as fitting with the rest of this discussion, everyone's experience is different. that's how you measure success. who are you to say someone else is wrong for having different goals?

The reason being is that as you get older, you begin to realize that money isn't everything. Money comes and goes, but if you've gotten no satisfaction or you've learned nothing from the career you chose, then what was it all for?

pablo180

10-12-2007, 12:02 AM

From my experience in school, I can definitely say that it has opened doors for me that would not have been a possibility if I didn't go to school/graduate. (B.S. Mech. Eng.) I must say though that it really does depend on a couple of key things.

1. You must like whatever the hell it is that you are studying.
2. Your teachers must be enthusiastic about teaching
3. Your school must have the resources/alumni network to help you be successful in the professional world. (Successful meaning you look forward to going to work and are getting paid decent to do what you are interested in.)

I think that a lot of people are turned off because you can only control one of these factors. Your own interest in what you are learning.

Teachers are a crap shoot....i've had some of the best teachers in their respective subjects.....i've also had the worse teachers in the universe. Sucks that it is like that....but until teachers wages go up...it will continue to be crap shoot.

Resources/alumni network will help you get your foot in the door of your dream job. Its almost like a membership to a club. Usually the more expensive the school, the tighter the network is. Just the way it is. You could have an awesome degree, 4.0 avg, etc, etc....but you could be passed up by someone who is less qualified simply because they knew someone on the inside. It very much is what you know AND who you know.

That is not to say that people that do not go to school are not successful. I'm working with a guy now that does not have a degree, but that has been building race vehicles from open wheel to touring cars for 30 years as a fabricator who loves what he is doing. He's got tons of experience and I value his opinions as much as the engineers I work with in the cubicles next to me.

There is no way to generalize wheather going to school or not is a good thing. Its a case by case type of answer.

Men slacking off in general...from the engineering world I can say that this is hardly the case. I can't count the number of times I hoped there would be some attractive ladies in the classes i took. I really cant speak for everyone else though. I guess a good question to ask is what degrees are women climbing in and men dropping off in?

ixifi - whats up man?

FaLKoN240

10-12-2007, 10:32 AM

http://www.wamu.org/audio/dr/07/08/r2070814-13672.asx

Radio show.

ixfxi

10-12-2007, 12:18 PM

There is no way to generalize wheather going to school or not is a good thing. Its a case by case type of answer.

Men slacking off in general...from the engineering world I can say that this is hardly the case. I can't count the number of times I hoped there would be some attractive ladies in the classes i took. I really cant speak for everyone else though. I guess a good question to ask is what degrees are women climbing in and men dropping off in?

ixifi - whats up man?

Pablo my main man, wassup brotha!

Nice to hear from a guy who went to school and followed a good career path! (As apposed to the endless amount of bullshit lawyers in this world, as if we dont have enough of them.)