blown piston ring

[Kreator]

Well, i got 0 compression in my 3rd cyllinder what looks like a blown piston ring. So the question is basicly for everyone who had a chance to take the engine out and do something on the internals or replaced them. How hard is it to get to the pistons, how long might it take and any tips/suggestions that u might gimme. This is really shitty, i ain't got mucho money to go to a dealership/shop to fix it, so it's either another ka or self-service. Please help with anything, cuz not having my car really sux. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

I'm planning on taking valve cover off and see if it's anything simpler, but doesn't look like it's gonna help any.

[Foxcolt]

I feel your pain <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Here are my thoughts.

1, don't down the SR

2, Your at a point now that will effect the future of your car. If you do rip the engine apart and rebuild get it BUILT! I'm talking everything that you have the money to do. But you'll be at a loss without a turbo considering your probably gonna want some lower compression.

3, if you think it's something to do with the head (valves etc.) I have a 95 head from my old motor that you can rip parts from.

4, You COULD buy another KA for about 300 bucks. Stick that sucker in there then slowley build the blown motor. That I think would be your best bet.

5, Don't drive the escort.

Good luck <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Kreator]

<!--QuoteBegin--Foxcolt+Sep. 16 2002,10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Foxcolt @ Sep. 16 2002,10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5, Don't drive the escort.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hehe, well, i got my dad's camry for a couple weeks while he's in japan, so if i manage to fix the 240sx, i won't be driving that purple pos (escort that is).

I'm taking the valve cover off tomorrow and gonna see if it's the valves. if it is, i'll be very interrested in yer 95 head <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

If not, gonna test if it's the rings, and if it is, prolly start looking for a ka, cuz i thought that actually would be the smartest thing to do right now. Then use this engine for rebuild. I'll keep people posted

P.S. jed, if you know anyone who'd sell a ka for $300, i'd surely buy it...

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Sep. 14 2002,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, i got 0 compression in my 3rd cyllinder what looks like a blown piston ring. So the question is basicly for everyone who had a chance to take the engine out and do something on the internals or replaced them. How hard is it to get to the pistons, how long might it take and any tips/suggestions that u might gimme. This is really shitty, i ain't got mucho money to go to a dealership/shop to fix it, so it's either another ka or self-service. Please help with anything, cuz not having my car really sux. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

I'm planning on taking valve cover off and see if it's anything simpler, but doesn't look like it's gonna help any.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
What happened when you ran the compression test w/ motor oil in the cylinder? Zero compression sounds more like you snapped a valve/rocker arm or something...
It would be much easier to pull the head off (after you've verified that the top part of the valvetrain looks ok) and take a look at your valves.

Plus a new valve is pretty cheap.

[Kreator]

I really hope it's just the valve. I thought it might be a head gasket, but i really doubt it (the engine oil is ok, not milky). If it's the bottom end, that's really sucky.

I took the valve cover off today. There is nothing wrong there, not that i could see alot. Me and my friend hte compression tests again, and came up with this:

1st cyll. - 170psi
2nd cyll. - 150psi
3rd cyll. - 10psi
4th cyll. - 130psi

(that's pressure from turning over the crank. we didn't run it with oil in the cyllinder.....)

iirc, the pressure is supposed to be between 150 and 200 right? So i guess there is something wrong with the 4th cyll as well? I bought the air compressor today, waiting on a leakdown tester from summit (whole thing run me ~$500 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> i either gonna return it, or my friend said he'll buy it from me later on for the receit price, if i won't be using it after the test. so basicly i loaned him $500 cuz he needs it for his camaro <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>). I'm gonna run that, figure out whichever one it is, and then either pull the head or take the engine out and buy another ka.

[mrdirty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Sep. 17 2002,6:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I really hope it's just the valve. I thought it might be a head gasket, but i really doubt it (the engine oil is ok, not milky). If it's the bottom end, that's really sucky.

I took the valve cover off today. There is nothing wrong there, not that i could see alot. Me and my friend hte compression tests again, and came up with this:

1st cyll. - 170psi
2nd cyll. - 150psi
3rd cyll. - 10psi
4th cyll. - 130psi

(that's pressure from turning over the crank. we didn't run it with oil in the cyllinder.....)

iirc, the pressure is supposed to be between 150 and 200 right? So i guess there is something wrong with the 4th cyll as well? I bought the air compressor today, waiting on a leakdown tester from summit (whole thing run me ~$500 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> i either gonna return it, or my friend said he'll buy it from me later on for the receit price, if i won't be using it after the test. so basicly i loaned him $500 cuz he needs it for his camaro <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>). I'm gonna run that, figure out whichever one it is, and then either pull the head or take the engine out and buy another ka.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Once you've established that the compression on a cylinder is lower than it should be, dump in &nbsp;a bit of 10w30 (I forget how much, just a bit though; like a tablespoon if I'm not mistaken).
If it is a ring then the oil will seal and your compression will go up. If you've completely destroyed a ring then it won't matter though...If compression stays the same, time to pull the head...

[Kreator]

Ok, so if compression goes up after i dropped a bit of oil, does that mean it's fixable without pulling the engine out, or it's just gonna tell me what the problem is?

[ca18guy]

I agree with foxholt on this..

"4, You COULD buy another KA for about 300 bucks. Stick that sucker in there then slowley build the blown motor. That I think would be your best bet."

From the looks of the compression test it looks like the 4 cylinder is on the way out to. &nbsp;Get a KA from a person doing a swap or junkyard and swap that in and put the old engine in the garage(bedroom if your kinky) and build it at your leisure. From experience it was cheaper for me to get a new ca18 block/head then to rebuild, when i blew a piston (it feel apart like an old cookie)

[Kreator]

Aight, well i got the leakdown test done today...
The results are confusing.

Basicly it showed complete leakage in all of the cyllinders. The funny part is the places where the air was coming out of. Not the the exhaust, not the intake, not the crankcase, not the radiator.... spark plug holes. When i hooked up the tester to the 3rd cyllinder, I got leakage from all the other 3. I tried running it on the first and second, and the result was air coming out of the 3rd in both cases. I can't explain that, but it seems to me that it's not pistons nor valves. So anyone got any clues? Cracked head? Head gasket? Hole in the friggin block??

Thx

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Sep. 22 2002,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aight, well i got the leakdown test done today...
The results are confusing.

Basicly it showed complete leakage in all of the cyllinders. The funny part is the places where the air was coming out of. Not the the exhaust, not the intake, not the crankcase, not the radiator.... spark plug holes. When i hooked up the tester to the 3rd cyllinder, I got leakage from all the other 3. I tried running it on the first and second, and the result was air coming out of the 3rd in both cases. I can't explain that, but it seems to me that it's not pistons nor valves. So anyone got any clues? Cracked head? Head gasket? Hole in the friggin block??

Thx</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Just pull the damn thing already!!!

Seriously though. That's pretty strange. Maybe someone can give you a better explenation but from what you said it almost seemed like you were doing it wrong.

Wait... Now that I think about it a blown head gasket would cause all the problems you talking about plus, the results on your leakdown test.

That might be your problem.

[hurleyboi514]

im having a similar problem and i have no idea what it could be. &nbsp;i was changing the intake cam to the 91 exaust cam. &nbsp;i had the crank set to TDC, set the distributor on #1, (i had to pull the front cover off b/c the chain fell in, d'oh!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, and the cams set to TDC compression from a picture from a corrected FSM i obtained from a friend of mine. &nbsp;now, i dont have any compression? &nbsp;i have like 30-40 on every cylinder. &nbsp;i double checked everything to make sure no valves would hit and everything was at TDC. &nbsp;next, i hooked up an air compressor into the spark plug sockets to see if the air would come out the exaust and intake ports, thus meaning they are broken. &nbsp;well, i havent been able to find any air leaking? &nbsp;what could be wrong?

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (hurleyboi514 @ Sep. 23 2002,12:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">im having a similar problem and i have no idea what it could be. i was changing the intake cam to the 91 exaust cam. i had the crank set to TDC, set the distributor on #1, (i had to pull the front cover off b/c the chain fell in, d'oh!<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>, and the cams set to TDC compression from a picture from a corrected FSM i obtained from a friend of mine. now, i dont have any compression? i have like 30-40 on every cylinder. i double checked everything to make sure no valves would hit and everything was at TDC. next, i hooked up an air compressor into the spark plug sockets to see if the air would come out the exaust and intake ports, thus meaning they are broken. well, i havent been able to find any air leaking? what could be wrong?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
damn i hate this stuff. It's so confusing. Well, i'd say check the crankcase. If there is any air coming out, means yer rings are bad. Yet that won't explain how the fuck that relates to the cam change.

Foxcolt: Ok that crossed my mind. But during the test i ain't got no bubbles in the radiator. So logically thinking it avoided the water ports. Could that happen? Also, do head gaskets just snap and go out, or is it a timely process? Like they go bad but still work for some time and then eventually die?

[Kreator]

Update:

Anyway, the head is finally off. I don't think we messed up anything, but we had to cut a couple hoses that we couldn't reach. Well the problem is the head. Some piece of crap got caught on an intake and exhaust valves making them seal incompletely. I'm thinking the seat is ruined and maybe some other crap. But we are gonna be looking at it tuesday. So anyone got any idea how much is it gonna be to fix that shit? Or am i better off buying a new head?

P.S. Do you think it's worth getting it ported and polished while it's off the engine? I'm planning on a turbo....

[Foxcolt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kreator @ Sep. 29 2002,10:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Update:

Anyway, the head is finally off. I don't think we messed up anything, but we had to cut a couple hoses that we couldn't reach. Well the problem is the head. Some piece of crap got caught on an intake and exhaust valves making them seal incompletely. I'm thinking the seat is ruined and maybe some other crap. But we are gonna be looking at it tuesday. So anyone got any idea how much is it gonna be to fix that shit? Or am i better off buying a new head?

P.S. Do you think it's worth getting it ported and polished while it's off the engine? I'm planning on a turbo....</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Post pics!!! post pics!!

From what you said I can't tell whether that head it screwed or repairable. Did you break a valve? What can of "crap" got stuck? what does the valve seat look like?

If it doesn't look that bad you can do a mild port and polish to not only fix your problem but make your car faster in the proccess.

Remember this is a great time for better valves,springs etc etc. Then pistons rods etc.

Stock ka's won't hold very much boost. built KA's go wild!

[Kreator]

Aight, well it all came out really nice in the end. The whole head job cost me $10. I took the valves out nothing was damamged it was a real small metal piece that got cought on the valves. I took it out to the machine shop, they grinded it for me for $10 and put the valves back in for free <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

So yeah, now i'm in the process of putting it all back together. From what i figured out i have to replace the head gasket, exhaust gaskets and both intake gaskets and a coupla hoses. So yeah $10 to fix the head and $200 in parts to put the engine back together <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

So anyways, do you think buying from carparts.com or courtesy-nissan.com would make any difference? Also are the headbolts torqued to yeild? e.g. can i reuse em oh have to get new ones? Thanx

[Kreator]

I ordered the parts it all came out to a nice amount of about $60 for all hte gaskets (i got the head gasket from Advance Auto Parts, they list it for $36 while carparts sells em for $137.... anyone has any idea why such a difference?). The moment they arrive i'm starting putting everything back together. Oh and the pictures:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~smolyar/240motor/
These are pics as of right now with everything fixed. The pictures of the damaged head with the metal piece are on a regular camera awaiting to be processed. So you gotta wait for those <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

P.S. all the parts we took off are in the last picture on the top shelf. had to move some stuff <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>