ka24de no spark

[s13bm]

i got a ka24de with no spark i changes the dizzy and the coil wat next

[TURBOvq35]

buy a new car.but seriously what steps have you taken to come to the conculsion you have no spark

[Rayne]

Spark plug wires and spark plugs.

Check your fuses while you are at it. If your headlights turn on your battery is fine.

[PREngineering]

Well let's see here. No spark. Are you able to crank the engine at least? Is this the stock motor or a swapped in replacement? Mileage would be somewhat helpful too. You need fuel, spark, and compression for a working motor. So far you have told us your missing spark. Do what Murphy said and look at the FSM.

-Joe

[Rayne]

^stop posting. those made no sense who said he has spark at all? he never said he had weak spark...

just cause your headlights come on your battery's good? wow.
__________________
He asked a question.

Carefully reread his original post. You will notice that he asked a question.

Forgive me for not completely explaining things. 1. Leave the key out of the ignition completely 2. Flip the headlight switch. 3. If the battery is good the headlights will work....since they can work off of the battery power as well as the alternator.

He changed the cap and rotor.....what next....natually would be change the spark plugs and wires. After that check the position of the cap to make sure the timing is not off. Checking the fuses is the bottom of basic troubleshooting.

Your answer did not exactly make sense either. "Look in the FSM...." How can he look in the FSM if he is not exactly sure what to look for. The FSM does not get into every possible problem.

From the looks of his original post all we know is he replaced a two things and has not checked for the basic stuff.

[Rayne]

WRONG. you sound like a parts hanger sir

you should check the BASICS like you said and not just go buying shit. what is new plugs and wires gonna do if you have no power to the coil or dizzzy?

you can turn the damn headlights on with barely any voltage left on a battery but will not have enough to crank over a starter motor.

how can he look in the fsm and not find the section for codes and things like what wires to the coil and dizzy need power, which wires should have continuity and how many ohms of resistance the stock resistor should have.

the fsm does tell what to check, so in this case does get into the possible problem at hand.

k?

I am not going to sit here and argue over petty junk. Turning the headlights on will help give a general idea of how much power is still remaining in the battery. (IE. Dim lights.....little power....Bright lights......a lot of power) Changing the wires and spark plugs allows the individual to know the condition of the wires and spark plugs. Furthermore no spark could mean the wires and/or spark plugs need to be replaced, or a fuse is blown.

Aside from all that the spark plug wires and spark plugs need to be replaced just like the coil and rotor.

Whether you think so or not I giving information that may lead to his problem...which is what the fsm would do.

[Rayne]

Everyone does not have a voltmeter or access to one.

[s13bm]

its a stock motor and its cranking . it had spark and then once we pluged the wires in and tryed to start it, it didnt start we ttryed to see if it had spark again and it didnt

[daryl337]

not to completely interject, but you both are sort of off topic here...

Headlights can run off of low amps <---- true

Bad battery = voltage + amperage drop due to inability to produce either with the electrolyte and lead plating combo <---- true

Dead battery = amperage drop because of whatever reason <---- true



I am certain that we can assume that his battery IS good however, or at least sufficient because he knows he isnt getting spark, which usually means that the motor is cranking over, fuel is going into the cylinders, but there is no ignition.


Now:

Spark plugs / wires determine spark strength... however if the wires are severed or so completely corroded that they have a rediculous amount of resistance, it might not jump the gap. 99.9% of the time you can rule this out though by simply testing it with another wire. If all 4 wires are crapped out, probability suggests that it is further up the line. So.. go to the dizzy. Take the cap and rotor off.. if things are making contact you should atleast have some spark... the quality of it is negotiable, but it should exist assuming your actual dizzy is not the problem.

You stated you changed it already before checking anything else out (bad move on your part...), so go to the coil: Check the resistance on the input and output of the coil (I believe.. I would have to refer back to the fsm to be sure.... =X)... and make sure they are within specs... you said you changed that anyways (doh)... so onward...

Check continuity through your harness to the coil..

Keep tracking it back. you will find your problem. Dont buy parts until you know what is wrong with it. You are just spending your money. with the 100+ dollars you used to buy used parts... or 300+ dollars you spent for new ones, you could have bought a $45 volt meter like the ones at harbor freight... or even a 9 dollar analogue (these are actually useful for testing o2 sensors) at any cheap parts store and gone through it yourself.

[unicoladron]

1. remove one of the spark plug wires from the spark plug.
2. get old or "extra" spark pug and plug it into the wire.
3. hold spark plug over valve cover. (do not shock yourself)
4. crank engine (a friend, girlfriend, or neighbor really helps here)

do you see a spark or hear "crackling"?

repeat this on all of the plug wires.

this will ultimately determine if you don't have spark.

[s13bm]

i never bought anthing jsut changed them with parts i knew that work so just check the wire from the coil to anywhere else cause the last time i drove it i turned it off and wen i tryed to start it, it wouldnt do anything but crank over and it was sputerring kinda bad so i thought it would be the fuel pump but it wasnt

[s13bm]

and i did test for spark like that and nutin happened

[daryl337]

Well, you check continuity in the harness to make sure the wires dont have any problems in the actual wiring itself... then you start checking for power before, and after the coil, ignition module, ecu, dizzy.. etc. To sum it up in a nut shell.

[pr240sx]

Check your ignition module

If your coil,wires,cap, rotor and voltage is good. Check if the ignition module is even connected. Try swapping for a good known working one.

[TURBOvq35]

screw all that. tell us exactly how you installed the new dizzy.

[s13bm]

i put the motor to dead top center and put the marks lined up on the dizzy and tred to start it and we had spark for a second and then we put everything back together and tryed to start it and it didnt do anything and we tryed to see if we had spark again and then we didnt

[racepar1]

Everyone does not have a voltmeter or access to one.

If you don't have access to a voltmeter then you probably shouldn't screw with a no spark problem if it is anything more than a cap&rotor problem because anything beyond that REQUIRES a voltmeter. I have been a mechanic for 5 years now and have worked on my dad's formula atlantic cars for 10 years and I have never seen plugs or wires cause a no-spark condition. Misfire yes, no-spark no.

[s13bm]

wat should i test to make sure about the spark problem then

[s13bm]

i do have a voltmeter

[racepar1]

First check for power to the coil. No power then refer to a wiring diagram and start with fuses. If it has power then check the coil itself on both the primary and secondary circuits, a fsm will detail this procedure. Other than that the only other things that can cause no spark would be the cam sensor, which is in the distributor, or the ignition module. Both of these are more complicated to test than the coil so you will definitely need a fsm. The cam sensor may have a resistance spec but i'm pretty sure the module does not. If you can't find a fsm then go to a local shop and ask them if they can print you test procedures via alldata or mitchell. If you have a fax then I could send u some info on monday, but PM me if you wanna do that.

[s13bm]

switched the ecu ,coil with transistor ,distributer and the shit still hase no spark ! i ran the codes it says the ignition singal is bad . and its weird it ran fine then i shut it off and tried to start it and it didnt start so i disconected then reconected the ecu and it started but i had to gas it and then it died and never started agian!????

[racepar1]

Gotta be a bad wire man you changed pretty much everything. Use the wiring diagram I sent u and test for continuity across the wires, especially those that go to the ECM.

[pr240sx]

Did you replace the ignition module? the small box next to the coil, held by 2 screws?

[DALAZ_68]

i didnt read anything here so im ask

have u tried going to TDC with crank and pulley...could be the reason for no spark...

another simple check could be making sure ur ecu is plug nice and firm to the tail of the harness

did u check the starter module ( connection above the ign coil) u can get it checked at autozone

hope fully that can help

[S13Leprechaun]

deifnitley het that checked... ^^^.. and maybe a ground issue? idk.

[Dream240]

You need to start back at the beginning at re-install the dist. Reset the crank at TDC and make sure the dist. align marks are set. Then when you install the rotor, make sure you have it installed pointing towards cyl. #1.

Where are you NOT getting spark from? Do you have spark to the coil but not the wires?

Really guys this diag. is not that hard.

[DALAZ_68]

another thing would be that he didnt specify ( exept for it being a stock motor) is it a rebuilt to OEM motor...if so another thing ur gonna have to check are the cams positioning...making sure there also ready when things are set to TDC

[Dream240]

another thing would be that he didnt specify ( exept for it being a stock motor) is it a rebuilt to OEM motor...if so another thing ur gonna have to check are the cams positioning...making sure there also ready when things are set to TDC

Yeah but that won't affect spark. One thing at a time. I don't think he can handle more woes at this point. :p

[DALAZ_68]

Yeah but that won't affect spark. One thing at a time. I don't think he can handle more woes at this point. :p

well wut about the CAS

[Dream240]

The "camshaft position sensor" is attached to the Dist. housing on the S13/S14. The "crank position sensor" is only used in S14s and is attached to the bellhousing. FYI

He would be throwing an 11 and 21 codes respectively if he was having a problem with the CMPS. If that was the case, then you could assume a problem with either the cam positions themselves or more than likely a faulty sensor.

Do we have ANY codes pulled yet?

[DALAZ_68]

The "camshaft position sensor" is attached to the Dist. housing on the S13/S14. The "crank position sensor" is only used in S14s and is attached to the bellhousing. FYI

He would be throwing an 11 and 21 codes respectively if he was having a problem with the CMPS. If that was the case, then you could assume a problem with either the cam positions themselves or more than likely a faulty sensor.

Do we have ANY codes pulled yet?

well obviously one Crank positioning sensor is automatically removed from the pic


im just throwing things out there that people told me would prevent me from getting spark

[Dream240]

Well judging from the experience of alot of Zilvians lately, I'm just trying to keep the definitons clear to avoid confusion. And yes the crank sensor would obviously not be a culprit here.

CPS is sometimes referred to as either the "Cam" position sensor, or the "Crank" position sensor.

[daryl337]

he needs to tell us.. does he have NO SPARK (as in you can't see crap).. or does he have CRAPPY spark?


BIIIIIIIIIG difference.

[s13bm]

i got the code 21 but we replaced so much crap the only thing i can think of next would be a bad wire somewhrer

[DALAZ_68]

Well judging from the experience of alot of Zilvians lately, I'm just trying to keep the definitons clear to avoid confusion.

agreed :bigok:


im thinking set it to TDC and make sure like really make sure ur ecu is bolted down properly..hell make sure u have the rite ECU

[35suren]

cap and rotor
relpace the sprakplug
wires

or maybe the injectors are not fireing right

[Dream240]

cap and rotor
relpace the sprakplug
wires

or maybe the injectors are not fireing right

You + Car knowledge = fail

What the hell do the injectors have to do with getting spark? Do us all a favor and just stop working on cars altogether.

Oh yeah, and learn how to use "speel cheeck".

Idiot.

[s13bm]

i check for power and ground to the ingnition and it has everything just dont kno why i still dont have any spark

[pr240sx]

A good way to check the CAM/CRANK position sensor is by removing it for the engine, disconnect plugs and coil wires BUT leave the harness connected. Wi the key on ON position, rotate manually the gear. You should hear the injectors clicking.

If you have power everywhere, even at the coil, I insist, check the ignition module. Its job is to switch power on/off so the coil sparks.
Get a good working one and test. Its simplier than testing the CAM/CRANK sensor and only takes 30 seconds!!!

[s13bm]

the ignition module is bolted on right onto the coil right

[Dream240]

No the ignition module is attached to the dist. via the only connector sticking out of the dist. housing.

The part you're thinking of is the ignition power transistor, which is attached to the back of the coil pack and it's mounting bracket.

The other component next to the coil is a simple resistor, which should last you the life of the car.

[s13bm]

on the plug to the distributer which ones should have power and ground

[racepar1]

on the plug to the distributer which ones should have power and ground

Dude, I sent u a WIRING DIAGRAM and testing info on every ignition part I could find and you are still asking wiring questions? :tweak: Maybe you should just take it to a shop.

[Dream240]

This is officially the 1 millionth time I've posted this link.

http://www.240edge.com/manuals/usdm-cars.html

get your FSM and solve your problem.

[boneout]

So what did it end up being im having a similar problem?