Wideband Comparisons

[72nismo]

I am looking into buying a wideband A/F. I want to get some opinions about the:
Innovate Motorsports LM-1 compared to Zeitronic ZT-2.
Woindering if they are pretty much the same thing an if anybody has had any experience with either one. Thanks

[steve shadows]

well it's for a KA right? well that changes everything

I would suggest an autometer gauge that wires into the stock 02.

good lucK!

[trqless]

well it's for a KA right? well that changes everything

I would suggest an autometer gauge that wires into the stock 02.

good lucK!

Wouldnt that be a narrowband?

[slw240sx]

most wideband setups have a wire to do narrow band output so that you can replace your stock sensor with it.

[bZeRk187]

I would suggest an auto meter gauge that wires into the stock 02.

good lucK!

Bad suggestion. All the AutoMeter narrow-band 02 gauges do is sweep back and forth between rich and lean.

If your serious about your engine setup, you need a wide-band. I've been using an Innovate LM-1 wide-band with data-logging capability for a few years and I have no complaints.

[johngriff]

I back steve's opinion on just using the narrow band.

But autometer is a little too expensive, I am sure there is a Chinese ebay knockoff for like $5 shipped.

[MegasquirtCA]

LOL aparently nobody but john and me got Steves sarcasm.

[slw240sx]

AEM and NGK also have some pretty cheap setups. plus they have a display which is nice since you can monitor AFR's all the time not just while tuning. I just setup an advertising account here, so monday ill be posting NGK and AEM setup specials.

Jon

[MegasquirtCA]

Look into JAW (Just Another Wideband) You can get a complete wideband for about $120 full functional and datalogging. This includes Bosch LSU sensor too.

http://14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm

[johngriff]

AEM and NGK also have some pretty cheap setups. plus they have a display which is nice since you can monitor AFR's all the time not just while tuning. I just setup an advertising account here, so monday ill be posting NGK and AEM setup specials.



Jon

AEM = Trash Controller

NGK = $100 - $150 more for the same equipment.

Look into JAW (Just Another Wideband) You can get a complete wideband for about $120 full functional and datalogging.

http://14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm

Idk about this, I am yet to see any solid testing, and I dont like the "open box" config. Don't get me wrong, I <3 DIY, but I dont think this is something ready to ship to the greater masses.

Hell, I've had my recent LM-1 for about 6 months and the battery cover is allready broken off, and is taped on. If this equipment is seeing alot of work, it needs a solid case.


The biggest thing you need to determine is HOW you will be using this data.

Once you answer that, you can answer which wideband you'll need.

And, it will fall in-between the LM-1 Plus the Sensor Logging Kit

or

The SM-AFR PLX unit.

[MegasquirtCA]

AEM = Trash Controller

NGK = $100 - $150 more for the same equipment.



Idk about this, I am yet to see any solid testing, and I dont like the "open box" config. Don't get me wrong, I <3 DIY, but I dont think this is something ready to ship to the greater masses.

Hell, I've had my recent LM-1 for about 6 months and the battery cover is allready broken off, and is taped on. If this equipment is seeing alot of work, it needs a solid case.





I'll let you know how it turns out, dude sent me one a few months ago to test out. I've been busy latly and havent gotten around to welding my O2 bung and fixing my downpipe. I should be fixing that this week though as we just got a Tig welder. I'm also gonna make a case.


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3438/dsc00199na7gj3.jpg


http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7240/dsc00187rh6.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1006/dsc00186wt7.jpg

[72nismo]

I will need it to read my AFR for my KAT set-up.I had car dynoed and it dynoed super lean 15.1 so now I want to have it checked with the wideband.

[sean350z]

I have an Innovate LC-1 and it seems to work great and is very accurate from what I can tell. You can calibrate it to open air which is nice, while others you can not (I think Zeitronix you can with software only though). I have datalogging capabilities with FC datalogit which is great for dyno/street tuning but if you wanted to log while racing I'd suggest doing the LM-1 from Innovate unless you can strap a computer in your car. Zeitronix also doesn't warn you if the operating temperature of the sensor is out of range giving you false readings while the Innovate unit does.

I've heard good things about Zeitronix but I didn't need all the extra logging inputs seeing everything is being logged by my Datalogit.

[steve s14]

AEM = Trash Controller

Funny how much hate you have for AEM products when the wideband sensors they use are bosch.

I've used and installed Innovate and AEM products and have not had any problems with either of them.

If you don't have any "FACTS" to back up your claims please refrain from spreading misinformation on a public forum.

When it comes to wideband gauges, i personally like the Innovate XD-1. It's easy to install, works well and the gauge looks nice. Like most widebands , it has a narrowband output and you can also daisy chain to other Innovate products to broaden it's capabilities.

The LM-1 is a good choice if you don't want a permanent install. The only thing i don't like about it is that the display box has a cheap feel to it but other than that, it works great.

[johngriff]

Yeah, no way almost all widebands under 1000 use the bosch sensor, even the ngk uses the bosch sensor, because it is alot less expensive than the ngk scientific sensor.

The aem has VAST calibration issues, horribly slow update rates, and horrible display for a device that may need to be used in the sunlight while driving. Sure you can export the data to anything, but you can do that with anything else.

We wern't talking sensors steve, in this price range its all about the controller and the AEM is an obvious cheap knockoff of the motech case. (the display).

The controller itself is incredibly expensive when lined up against the far less expensive and more accurate PLX box.

$400 ish vs $150.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=81

http://www.plxdevices.com/products/sm/afr/

And what does that $400 get you?

Not even a gauge, no on board data logging.

For $400 you can get an LM-1 with a gauge and data logging.

Horrible product, from a horrible company, I take my scientific sensors seriously, and not from an Air Filter Company.

[johngriff]

Now if you want to get into their garbage can Standalone, that was cooked up in a garage in torrance, then sold to aem we could do that too.

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas

Oh whats this?

My biggest beef with the aem, besides the cheesy software, and single application only molded plug, was that you could not LOCK THE BASE TIMING.

And this is why.
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas
http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=172618&highlight=aem+cas

Replace the trigger wheel?

Doesnt sound very plug and play to me. Sounds like more band-aids, and cheap cold air intake bypass filter style garbage.

[steve s14]

The guy is looking for a way to monitor a/f and my post was about gauges.
Both will do that, you're looking to discredit me with details? Please grow up.
Never did i say that AEM is better but you obviously have a bone to pick with them.
As for their calibration problems, i haven't had any issues with the accuracy. The problems that i have heard about have usually been traced down to a poor installation. Because the sensor is calibrated from the factory, a poor ground connection can cause problems as well as improper sensor placement.
I personally have not used their controller but i do use the AEM EMS with UEGO and have good results.
I've installed their UEGO gauge and found it to work well also.
You talk as if they murdered your dog but i doubt you ever even tried their products.

Other standalones make you add a crank trigger wheel on the engine AEM doesn't and the fact that they offer a wheel for free to fix a problem that has cropped up doesn't sound shady to me and it is still plug and play,so what's your point by bringing that up?

My ka makes over 300whp on speed density with the EMS with no driveability problems.
Last time i saw you driving an sr that you just tuned using Haltech, it didn't start well and idled like crap. I think i'll stick with AEM.

[slw240sx]

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67
when i was suggesting AEM this is what i was talking about, its comes with the single channel controller and gauge. and they are under 300 bucks most of the time.

what sources do you have that prove AEM is junk compared to other brands?
not starting an argument here, i would like to know just to be more educated on the matter.

jon

[GSXRJJordan]

John (and SteveShadows) have used most every type of engine management, so when they tell me something is junk, I tend to believe there's a better alternative (even if the "junk" unit isn't all that bad).

I've used the AEM EMS w/UEGO with good results, but for a car with factory ECU, the AEM controllers are a bit sluggish. I've used the Innovate LM-1, but don't like that huge lunchbox-style housing. I'm a PLX fan - cheap, used by people I respect, and expandable (like the Innovate stuff).

[johngriff]

LOL flame war on the internets..