Left Foot Braking

[Ragnarok043]

anybody else here use left foot braking technique. i know this technique is more advantageous for FWDs but i find it very useful for underpowered stock KA's like mine. especially for those of us who prefer to grip than drift, you can control the steering angle without loosing traction. its most useful when going through consecutive turns like a slalom that doesnt require gear change. it was kinda scary at first cause the left foot has a habit of jabbing the clutch pedal and releasing slowly. but once your left foot learns how to modulate the brakes, its a piece of cake.

[spdfreek0o]

depends on the situation, but it can be advantageous

[brokeAs240sx]

at the local autox's I've run, a few of the veterans use left-foot braking. They all told me you are slower for a while until you get used to it, then it helps - just a little, but still helps.

From the instructional schools, left foot braking through a slalom was never a good idea - you mite left foot brake before the first cone, but that was it - after that, you should be modulating the throttle and steering depending on the spacing and your speed. If you have to brake at all in the middle of the slalom, you could be going in too hot or steering too much.

What I've found it advantageous for is before a big sweeper or transition turn, left foot braking allows you to slow down w/o as much weigh transfer (basically, trail braking).

It all depends on driving style though. It's pretty crazy how a few of my friends drive completely different but a lot of times are w/in tenths of a second amongst themselves.

[TiNMAN]

ive tried it and my left foot doesnt like it. crazy left foot! :loco:

[MrChow]

I use to use a bit when I drove a FF to help with understeer on really tight turns.

But I don't think there's a point to it in a FR. In a FR you use weight transfer. If you know how to weight transfer the gas pedal is like a extra steering wheel. Why FR normally have a better steer angle then FF and AWD cars. Anyways.

[Ragnarok043]

at the local autox's I've run, a few of the veterans use left-foot braking. They all told me you are slower for a while until you get used to it, then it helps - just a little, but still helps.

From the instructional schools, left foot braking through a slalom was never a good idea - you mite left foot brake before the first cone, but that was it - after that, you should be modulating the throttle and steering depending on the spacing and your speed. If you have to brake at all in the middle of the slalom, you could be going in too hot or steering too much.

What I've found it advantageous for is before a big sweeper or transition turn, left foot braking allows you to slow down w/o as much weigh transfer (basically, trail braking).

It all depends on driving style though. It's pretty crazy how a few of my friends drive completely different but a lot of times are w/in tenths of a second amongst themselves.

yeah for short slaloms its not necessary to brake at all, but for say consecutive hairpins it can help. i generally like to use it for trail braking during the corner exit when youre on the throttle and the load is shifting to the rear, loosing front end traction.

[SouthSideSlider]

i do in my FC RX-7.

[yokotas13]

i do alot in drift
and in grip
if you brake while pushing the gas it keeps a load ont eh turbo

[overb0ost]

^^ you mean brake boost?

i don't use my left foot but i use my right foot.

bascially like heal toeing but not a fast action like that. same positioning of the heal (gas) toe (brakes).

i trail brake to help load up the front tires, braking for 20-30% of the turn.

[Ragnarok043]

i do alot in drift
and in grip
if you brake while pushing the gas it keeps a load ont eh turbo

never thought of that, then again i dont have much experience with turbo cars.

[UfoZ8myCow]

Ive never really felt the need for it on the track in the FR cars Ive driven... On Streets of Willow though in my FF I was faster through a lot of the tighter sections by using left foot braking (and like Yokotas said, it did help keep a load on the turbo for a faster exit). Tried it in the S13 and it didnt really make any difference in my speed or times. This is speaking from the grip standpoint.

[yokotas13]

its just a weird habit i got into
i duno why i keep doing it
i guess it Feeeeels faster?

[lflkajfj12123]

wouldn't it be better to just clutch in and heel toe brake and keep the turbo spooled while grip, i can see in drifting brake boost might work if you're drifting through a turn, kind of like starting a slow drift around a turn using the brake

[Ragnarok043]

Ive never really felt the need for it on the track in the FR cars Ive driven... On Streets of Willow though in my FF I was faster through a lot of the tighter sections by using left foot braking (and like Yokotas said, it did help keep a load on the turbo for a faster exit). Tried it in the S13 and it didnt really make any difference in my speed or times. This is speaking from the grip standpoint.

i guess its different on track than it is on the touge with different elevation changes. i can really feel it starting to go under especially on an uphill corner exit, like the front end is floating, with left foot braking it plants the front wheel right into the ground. it feels alot more comforting going WOT with the front wheels biting the pavement through the turn. one thing though, left foot braking can be hell on the brakes though, in my last touge run the pads were billowing smoke after about a 15 min run.

[drift freaq]

wouldn't it be better to just clutch in and heel toe brake and keep the turbo spooled while grip, i can see in drifting brake boost might work if you're drifting through a turn, kind of like starting a slow drift around a turn using the brake

Give this man a Star! Left foot braking is dangerous at best, not bright at worst.
If you need trailing brake in your driving learn to drive aka heel toe. Try it. It works and its fun, its always fun to see the look on peoples faces around you when you enter a corner and pass with your brake lights full on while your car is accelerating. Heel toe is the standard in all forms of road racing.

[arkive43]

exactly what i was gona say "heel toe"...transfer weight to front, raise rpm stay in your power band..... i trying to get better at it ive got the basic jist of it.

[overb0ost]

Give this man a Star! Left foot braking is dangerous at best, not bright at worst.
If you need trailing brake in your driving learn to drive aka heel toe. Try it. It works and its fun, its always fun to see the look on peoples faces around you when you enter a corner and pass with your brake lights full on while your car is accelerating. Heel toe is the standard in all forms of road racing.

isn't heal toe supposed to be done BEFORE the corner?

i think what you mean is to heal toe before the corner....but after downshifting (keep your heal and toe at the same position) ur still riding the brakes while on the gas through the corner and gradually letting off the brakes while applying more gas as you hit the apex right?

or am i completely missing your point?

that would be the same as left foot braking except using your heal and toe through the corner....

[Silverbullet]

on a 240, the brake and gas pedals are close enough so u can push both of them with ur right foot at the same time... just need practice. I left foot brake sometimes, just for fun though. I even left foot gas on long trips.

[lflkajfj12123]

isn't heal toe supposed to be done BEFORE the corner?

i think what you mean is to heal toe before the corner....but after downshifting (keep your heal and toe at the same position) ur still riding the brakes while on the gas through the corner and gradually letting off the brakes while applying more gas as you hit the apex right?

or am i completely missing your point?

that would be the same as left foot braking except using your heal and toe through the corner....

heel toe should usually only be used to keep the turbo spooled and/or to rev match

say you're in third gear about to hit a sharp turn, you first clutch in start to apply the brakes and shift into second gear and then while braking around the corner use your heel to match the rpms of the engine with the rpms of the tranny from third gear then release the clutch, make for much smoother exits

also theres nothing wrong with left foot braking, you can see it done in many option videos, its mostly used in drifting though.. to create more over steer and to keep traction loose, then just let off the brakes on the exit again

correct me if im wrong but thats what i do :hsdance:

[sicarius82]

+1 for brake boosting, but i usually do it on freeways when racing. places load on turbo (max boost). damn my rotors get red as hell. but i use ebrake, not brake pedal.

[Koopa Troopa]

You guys are way too technical... I just kick the brake pedal and let off when I hear the tires scream and then repeat if necessary. It's really all that's needed. Let the tires do all the work.

Only time I use hell-toe is when I'm coming in too fast and need to get into a lower gear or when I'm racing gymkhana and need to go from 3rd to 1st really fast and without destroying my tranny....

Other than that just learn to use the brake pedal...

[drift freaq]

heel toe should usually only be used to keep the turbo spooled and/or to rev match

say you're in third gear about to hit a sharp turn, you first clutch in start to apply the brakes and shift into second gear and then while braking around the corner use your heel to match the rpms of the engine with the rpms of the tranny from third gear then release the clutch, make for much smoother exits

also theres nothing wrong with left foot braking, you can see it done in many option videos, its mostly used in drifting though.. to create more over steer and to keep traction loose, then just let off the brakes on the exit again

correct me if im wrong but thats what i do :hsdance:

What about non turbo cars? Your statement above while partially true only addresses heal toe in a turbo application. Its been used in non turbo cars for years and like arkive said it causes weight transfer from rear to front and tucks your front end . You can accelerate through the turn while doing this hence the term trailing brake. Its the proper way to brake and gas at the same time. Though you may see some drifters in Japan in Option Video's doing left foot braking its consider very poor driving technique and it does not make it right.
The best drivers in the world aka F1 do not left foot brake.

[lflkajfj12123]

I didn't say it was a good driving technique, but you will still see it being done with lots of drivers, people get into a poor habit?

and if you noticed i said to rev match also, i didn't know you couldn't rev match in turbo applicated cars?

transfering rear to front is a pretty good way to create oversteer, your backend might be lighter but that still doesn't mean its going to be the best way to get through the corner

Only time I use hell-toe is when I'm coming in too fast and need to get into a lower gear or when I'm racing gymkhana and need to go from 3rd to 1st really fast and without destroying my tranny....

perfect example

[LB.Motoring]

Its scary,

hahaha.

[lflkajfj12123]

You can accelerate through the turn while doing this hence the term trailing brake. Its the proper way to brake and gas at the same time.

trail braking is a driving technique in which the driver begins to brake before entering a turn and then continues to brake as he eases into the corner as cornering forces build, the driver gradually feathers off the brakes, trading braking power for cornering grip. by increasing the vertical loading and the traction at the front tires, trail-braking can improve a car's turn in. but how are you involving braking and gas at the same time you shouldn't really be accelerating until you let off the brakes and enter the exit?

you can also pull the e-brake in a pulse like manner while accelerating right before a turn while still going in a straight line before trail braking the corner is chosen. still keeping a load on the turbo, and staying in your power band for a smooth exit.

maybe thats what you're refering to?

[Ragnarok043]

What about non turbo cars? Your statement above while partially true only addresses heal toe in a turbo application. Its been used in non turbo cars for years and like arkive said it causes weight transfer from rear to front and tucks your front end . You can accelerate through the turn while doing this hence the term trailing brake. Its the proper way to brake and gas at the same time. Though you may see some drifters in Japan in Option Video's doing left foot braking its consider very poor driving technique and it does not make it right.
The best drivers in the world aka F1 do not left foot brake.

actually i believe the McLaren F1 team use to have a second brake pedal. it was used for trail braking to stabilize the car on the corner exit. it wasnt until a photographer caught a pic of the brake rotor glowing red as it accelerated, that FIA found out about it and banned the system.

[nousablenames133]

Left foot braking in a FF layout car is like lightly ebraking. If you do it correctly the accelerating force cancels the breaking force on the front tires, but the back tires are still braking. In an FR layout car you're just braking the front tires. Only times you should do this in a silvia are burnouts, maintaining oversteer while slowing down, or basically a moving burnout (show drifting), and maintaining boost.

[drift freaq]

I didn't say it was a good driving technique, but you will still see it being done with lots of drivers, people get into a poor habit?

and if you noticed i said to rev match also, i didn't know you couldn't rev match in turbo applicated cars?





perfect example

I never said anything about not being able to rev match. If your trying to rev match you usually blip the brake pedal only.

[drift freaq]

trail braking is a driving technique in which the driver begins to brake before entering a turn and then continues to brake as he eases into the corner as cornering forces build, the driver gradually feathers off the brakes, trading braking power for cornering grip. by increasing the vertical loading and the traction at the front tires, trail-braking can improve a car's turn in. but how are you involving braking and gas at the same time you shouldn't really be accelerating until you let off the brakes and enter the exit?

you can also pull the e-brake in a pulse like manner while accelerating right before a turn while still going in a straight line before trail braking the corner is chosen. still keeping a load on the turbo, and staying in your power band for a smooth exit.

maybe thats what you're refering to?

Trail braking does mean you feather off a bit but it does not mean you have to remove your foot completely from the brake pedal. Thats the the dope part about heal toe driving you can accelerate while feathering the brake and yes it does give you a tactical driving advantage per what I had stated earlier.

Instead of argueing about this with me go out and try it. I think you will be mildly surprised. Also you seem to be hung up on everything being related to a Turbocharged engine. This technique can be used in Turbo or NA engines. If your good at it you will get the desired effect.

[drift freaq]

actually i believe the McLaren F1 team use to have a second brake pedal. it was used for trail braking to stabilize the car on the corner exit. it wasnt until a photographer caught a pic of the brake rotor glowing red as it accelerated, that FIA found out about it and banned the system.

aka cheating lol

[nousablenames133]

aka cheating lol

i don't think it's necesarily cheating. mazda won the 24hours of le mans with a rotary, then they banned rotaries the next year. was mazda cheating?

[lflkajfj12123]

Instead of argueing about this with me go out and try it.

I'm not argueing with you about it i was just trying to understand what you were saying which i get it now

[Ragnarok043]

i don't think it's necesarily cheating. mazda won the 24hours of le mans with a rotary, then they banned rotaries the next year. was mazda cheating?

yeah its all politics, Ferrari has a lot of influences in FIA. but the fact that they banned the second brake pedal system means left foot braking clearly has an advantage.

[drift freaq]

i don't think it's necesarily cheating. mazda won the 24hours of le mans with a rotary, then they banned rotaries the next year. was mazda cheating?

that my friend is a poor analogy. You need to learn more about whats goes on in racing. Indeed the left foot pedal on the F1 car was cheating because it was blatantly outside the rules. F1 teams are notoriously looking for cheats aka stuff blatantly outside the rules that they can hide and use to their advantage. Actually this happens in a lot of motorsports. It is cheating and the teams that do it admit it under their breaths. This is racing.

The Rotary was banned at Le Mans for a very interesting reason. I will take you back to the debut of Rotaries in U.S. road racing for the the possible reason of the banning.
When RX7's first hit the tracks in 78 they were classed as 1.3 liter engines because they ran 2 rotor engines. The concept was the rotors only had two firing surfaces aka like 2 pistons. Though this was not really true the fact was each rotor had 3 firing faces in the combustion process because a Rotary works like a 2 stroke engine not a 4 stroke. This little miscalculation gave the RX7 a class advantage that allowed them to sweep their classes. SCCA soon realized the mistake and the following year the RX7 was reclassed into a larger displacement engine catagory. I a sure the officials at Le Mans were having a hard time trying to class the displacement of the Rotary and decided to just ban it because all the other engines are convention piston design 4 strokes.

[drift freaq]

I'm not argueing with you about it i was just trying to understand what you were saying which i get it now

cool cool lets say the way you were wording it was question and debate. Its all good these kind of discussions are cool. Take care

[drift freaq]

yeah its all politics, Ferrari has a lot of influences in FIA. but the fact that they banned the second brake pedal system means left foot braking clearly has an advantage.

Now this is your opinion not fact. Until its been tested and proven its a debatable at best. If you think Ferrari controls FIA then hahhahaha you need to learn more about FIA politics? yes. Politics controlled by Ferrari? No. LOL

[racepar1]

Left foot braking's purpose is to reduce the time it takes to transition your right foot from the gas to the brake, it can only be used when entering corners that do not require downshifting so it's pretty useless on the track. In the canyons however it can be useful, although a couple tenths of a second on a mountain road is nothing. You can also use it to adjust the angle of a drift slightly or to transition a bit more weight to the front tires on corner exit, but if you have to use it on corner exit either your line is screwed up or you need to spend some time on your suspension settings. All in all I would consider left foot braking more of a recovery technique than an actual driving technique, but i have heard of a lot of drivers (especially rally drivers) using it

[steve shadows]

ive never found it very usefull

anti-lag is usefule thought

[codyace]

ive never found it very usefull

Me neither. To much going on. I'd rather take a proper line and be smooth than rammy and 'redmist' style

anti-lag is usefule thought

Is exactly what I was going to point out, however the disadvantage possibly of the ALS is that it may be TO MUCH at once coming out of corners. Instead of having that linear pull out, it's instantly at 18 or whatever....making throttle modulation a bit hairy. I bet you could get damn fast with it tho hehe...

[Ragnarok043]

Now this is your opinion not fact. Until its been tested and proven its a debatable at best. If you think Ferrari controls FIA then hahhahaha you need to learn more about FIA politics? yes. Politics controlled by Ferrari? No. LOL

Influence = the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc.

Control = to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command

[drift freaq]

Influence = the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc.

Control = to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command

whatever, up till this point we were having a good debate now your just going off the deep end to try and prove your point. pssst its not working. Writing the definitions of the two words does not change the fact that Ferrari does not have complete influence if any over the FIA.

By the way influence actually can be a way to excute control. If I influence you to certain point I gain control over you in a subversive way. Hitler was an example of control through Oratorical influence.

[Ragnarok043]

whatever, up till this point we were having a good debate now your just going off the deep end to try and prove your point. pssst its not working. Writing the definitions of the two words does not change the fact that Ferrari does not have complete influence if any over the FIA.

By the way influence actually can be a way to excute control. If I influence you to certain point I gain control over you in a subversive way. Hitler was an example of control through Oratorical influence.

i hold no grudges, i just dont want my words twisted.

[SexPanda]

So who actually uses left foot braking? I personally find it uncomfortable and awkward.... Im sure the pro's can do it just fine, but when it comes to novice racers (im assuming most people here that race do so only every once in a while, and dont have much experience) i'd think it would hurt them more than help them.

my 2 cents.

[kevtrinh]

I left foot brake while drifting when im going a little too wide and I want to try to pull closer into the apex. I hear a lot of pros do it in tandem but I have yet to tandem so I have no personal experience with that. Try driving around town left foot braking and eventually it'll feel normal.

[drift freaq]

i hold no grudges, i just dont want my words twisted.

I was not twisting your words, just owning you. I will say it again your Opinion of Ferrari's influence over the FIA is just not true and laughable at best. Ferrari wishes they had that kind of power as does every other F1 Team.

[ixfxi]

the only time I've used left foot braking was with my AUTOMAGIQUE.

most of the time, you dont need to do that with a manual - atleast i've never seen a need for it. heel/toe has been absolutely sufficient in doing what i need/want to do.

[Ragnarok043]

I was not twisting your words, just owning you. I will say it again your Opinion of Ferrari's influence over the FIA is just not true and laughable at best. Ferrari wishes they had that kind of power as does every other F1 Team.

good job at owning me


anyways back on topic, everybody keeps mentioning heel toe but that technique is only used for corner entry during deceleration. left foot trail braking is used during corner exit acceleration, two completely different applications.