coilover thread to end it all

[ZX88]

i decided to create this thread because i noticed that every week we get the same question "What are good coilovers?" or "what should i buy?" Instead of us wasting space on zilvia creating new threads on the same topic why not create a thread that will inform a noob to help them decide what coilover they should get.

-This is just a list of different companies that make coilovers for our car i categorized the list based on information from past threads and from reading review on this site as well a NICO.

companies

----Price is not directly proportional to the quality------

Expensive sets($$$$$$$)($1500-$2600)

- Swift
-Super March

-Sard
- Gt Spec

-Toda Racing
- Type FS

-Cusco
-Comp Zero-2(R)
-Comp Zero-1
-Apexi
-

-JIC
- Magic FLT-A2

-Tein
- RA
- RE
- RS
-Kei office
-( discontinued but can be found used) warning no rebuilds

-Zeal
- Super function
- Function xs
- Function x
- Function D

-Yashiro factory
- http://www.yashiofactory.co.jp/

-HKS
- Hipermax DRAG
- Hipermax RS

-Tanabe
- Sustec Pro SEVEN

-Buddy club
-P1 Racing Damper

-KW
-Variant 3

-Apexi
- N1 Damper Pro
- N1 Damper Type V

- G6R


__________________________________________________ _______________________

Midrange sets[( budget friendly and really good)($1100-$1499)

-Stance
- GR+
- GR+ PRO

- G-Master

-Tanabe
- Pro SS Type II
- Sustec Pro S-S

-Power by max
- Competition coilover

-Tein
- Flex
- Super DRIFT SideWay Master

-JIC
-Magic SF-1
-Magic FLT-A1

-Silkroad
- RM/A8
- Section

-Greddy
- Type S

-KTS

-BC -
- BR
-RS-R
- Sports I

- Cusco
- Comp-S

-Ksport
- GT pro damper
- Kontrol drift

-Apexi
-N-1 Damper ExV

__________________________________________________ _________________

Cheap stuff ( usually below $1000)

-Apexi
- World Sport Damper

- Tein
-super street
- basics

- STANCE
- GR Basic

- Ground control
- coilover sleeves and decent shock combo

- Buddy club
-N+ Spec

- Tanabe
-Pro S-OC Type II

-Megan
- Track
- Street

-Ksport
-kontrol

-KBee

-NEX
- GT
- SS

unknown brands

-Motorwerks

stuff that never should be used
-ebay coilovers sleeves :down:
-aerospeed sleeves :down:
- in fact any sleeves besides the ground control ones should never be installed.

Where/ Who to buy from

On Zilvia

-Any of Zilvia.nets Approved advertisers located in the advertiser directory
-Group Buys (forums) "check the review forums to see how good the seller is"
-For sale Forum

Websites
( these three companies pretty much have all the brands mentioned above)

-http://www.240sxmotoring.com
-http://www.phase2motortrend.com
-http://www.aspecproducts.com/default.asp

Disclaimer when buying used coilovers

-the gamble with buying used coilovers say over ebay is that you never really know what the condition the shocks are in. Even though they might seem cheaper chances are that they have been ridden hard and will most likely need a rebuild. Rebuilds can be costly especially if the coilover is discontinued or you have to ship it out to japan/etc. Unless you are 100 percent sure of the condition of the coilovers i would not bother buying used rusty coilovers over ebay/etc. Nothing is worse than bouncing around on blown shocks.

This thread is pretty open if anyone else have any other brand that they know feel free to post and if you have it give us a review on what you think.

Post your reviews like this

Company:__________________
Model:______________________
Review:__________________


More info on certain brand/models and on coilovers in general.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240SX_Performance_Modification/Coilovers/coilover_reviews

http://driftkat.com/Nissan240SXCoilovers.php

[Bobafreak]

i give you one good rep my friend this is a good post.

[x'ed]

Glad to see im getting some changes made around here, lol, whatever the cause may be.

[Matej]

The quality isn't necessarily directly proportional to the price.
Also, there are other things to consider, such as warranty, support for rebuilds in the U.S., and etc.

[ayuaddict]

i didnt see KTS anywhere on that list...maybe you should add it.

[MomentumGT]

Maybe add Buddy Club P1 Racing Damper to the top list along with the Racing Spec Damper. And the N+ Spec to the "Cheap Stuff" but decent list. My experience with BC has been pretty good as of late. Also add KW as well

Also maybe add a Grip/Road Race/Top of the Line list as well. Starting with Progress, Moton, Penske, etc...

Good post!

-Jon

[BAY240]

awesome nice thread i keep researching old threads for this exact information. you helped out a ton and actually kept me from making a horrible mistake!

also what do you guys recomend for a college student not makin any money but a budget of about a grand? i have a blown stock shock and the tension rods need to be replaced too. my car will be my DD and its going to see a lot more road than track.

Thanx

[AceInHole]

You forgot to post about stuff that actually works.

High end:
Ohlins/ JRZ/ Penske: Currently no off the shelf model. Not expecting 240 owners to look towards these anyways as they: a. actually work, and b. actually cost money. Ohlins did bolt on stuff for the S13 and S14, not available in the US, though.

Moton
Motorsport: $5500 to $11000
Available in 2-way, 3-way, and 4-way adjustable, external reservoir shocks/ struts. They have probably the largest range of adjustment, with an equally impressive damper setup. Among the features is a blow-off-valve system which allows large bumps/ impacts to go by without upsetting the car.
Clubsport:$Unkown (No app listed for Nissan, but I'm assuming they could be custom made for around the cost of the Evo/ Sti app).
Cheaper version of Moton Motorsport shocks, which still retains a large adjustment range. Double adjustable shock with external reservoirs.

Koni:
28-series: $5500
Aluminum body double adjustable monotube shocks/ struts.
Available through most shops that do custom setups, although I believe TrueChoice has already made a set. Proven through SCCA National level autocross on Jason Rhoades' STS winning car.
86-series: $2000 w/GC perches/ springs
Double adjustable twin tube shocks. Not as digressive, but huge range in damping. Modular setup allows easy replacement/ rebuilding. My front struts currently have 11kg springs on them, with damping adjusters at 1/3 from soft, and they're just a bit overdamped.
Yellows:$1100 w/GC perches/ springs
Single adjustable twin tube shocks. Very digressive, but not quite as capable of higher springrates as the 86 series. I've run up to 8kg springs on the yellows and the seem to hold up fine.
I run these personally with close to 11/ 8 kg springs (F/R).

Bilstein
Cost unknown, although from Wiisass' review they'd be around $1200- $1500 with springs/ perches. I've seen what looked like a PSS9 setup for an S14 around but most of the stuff is from Europe or Japan.



My pick: I'm currently running Koni 8611's up front, with Yellows in back. I'm on 11kg/ 8kg springs, and my ride comfort is pretty decent. It's probably equivolent to a JDM coilover setup on 8kg/ 6kg in terms of harshness, although with less "bounce". My setup including springs and camber plates would run about $1800.

What I'd get next:
I've seen extremely good results with Ohlins. Mark Daddio's Evo is on roughly 800lb springs (14kg) up front. It weighs only slightly more than my S14 (i've heard he's near the 2800 mark) and it rides amazingly smooth. I've yet to hitch a ride with a Moton shod car, but from what I hear it's the basic upgrade for Porsche owners, and a lot of BMW racers run them as well, with fantastic results. Both companies offer solutions that should land in the sub $5000 range.

[Bobafreak]

woot woot. i thought kei office went out of business though? Someone inform me.

[ZX88]

kie office has stop making there coilovers but you can find them used.

http://www.driftfactory.com/keifaq.php

[ZX88]

awesome nice thread i keep researching old threads for this exact information. you helped out a ton and actually kept me from making a horrible mistake!

also what do you guys recomend for a college student not makin any money but a budget of about a grand? i have a blown stock shock and the tension rods need to be replaced too. my car will be my DD and its going to see a lot more road than track.

Thanx

tein SS and basic would be under 1000 and are decent you wont be able to slam your ride but it will be lower and you can preload the springs. they don't have any camber plate either so you have to use your old boots.save up a little more and get stance or other mid range coilovers.that will allow you to adjust more things.

[Aoshi112]

Don't forget about KW Variant 3's. They're about 1700ish. Highly decorated coilovers recommended by Robi of Robispec. Lots of evos run them with great results.

[aznpoopy]

this is a good guide as to prices, but doesn't really get into the meat of what makes one coilover better than another (all other options being equal)... the shock.

few here have the technical background (or the money and resources) to make a really objective in-depth evaluation (or dyno) of every shock that comes in every coilover. and most people wouldn't understand it anyway. hell i know i don't. so i would take the list with a pinch of salt.

[ZenkiKid]

+ Repp on the thread. Yeah used coilovers are a gamble, so far it looks like i won my gamble on my gab sport revo stroke 2s. Over a year and still strong!! :bigok:

[Wiisass]

this is a good guide as to prices, but doesn't really get into the meat of what makes one coilover better than another (all other options being equal)... the shock.

few here have the technical background (or the money and resources) to make a really objective in-depth evaluation (or dyno) of every shock that comes in every coilover. and most people wouldn't understand it anyway. hell i know i don't. so i would take the list with a pinch of salt.

I would love to do this, but the logistics of it make things pretty impossible. It would require cooperation from the manufacturers or distributors and then the costs of dyno time and fixtures to mount the dampers on a dyno. But it would allow for objective analysis of the many available options on the market. Who knows if the higher priced JDM dampers have the same valving as the lower priced stuff or where the valving is in relation to where it should be.

But there's a good chance it would never happen.

[TheSquidd]

Yeah would never happen, because I guarantee half of those coil overs all come from the same damn factory in Taiwan. Mine included. No company wants to see that kind of information become common knowledge.

My main thing is who the hell is giving the review?

So far, the reviews posted are wholeheartedly trustworthy, but if we could avoid the whole:

"Oh yeah I bought some Megan Racing coil overs, they drift good, stiff, I slammed my car!"

type of review, it'd be great.

Please, only people that know what a coil over does and should do post reviews. People that have tested the coil overs in an environment where their performance MATTERS (drift, time trial, SCCA, auto-x) This excludes me as well since I don't know the first thing about suspension.

Links to other sites, as basis for some of the claims for the reviews, would also be excellent.

[Otis Performance]

you might want to add these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/S13-or-S14-16-way-adjustable-coilovers-240sx_W0QQitemZ280145336006QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3358 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

there super cheap so someone is going to ask about them.

[AceInHole]

I would love to do this, but the logistics of it make things pretty impossible. It would require cooperation from the manufacturers or distributors and then the costs of dyno time and fixtures to mount the dampers on a dyno. But it would allow for objective analysis of the many available options on the market. Who knows if the higher priced JDM dampers have the same valving as the lower priced stuff or where the valving is in relation to where it should be.

But there's a good chance it would never happen.

Dennis Grant claims to have done something similar.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

[Okinawandrifter87]

Kei Office is continued but I think he is making a new line called Dg5? Someone correct me if I am wrong thanks, just trying to contribute to this helpful thread.

[Antihero983]

dont forget that if your coilovers dont come with camber plates, you can usually buy them, and if you keep your strut/spring setup i believe cusco makes camper plates for the front for that setup.

[robtheflyer]

Just came across a website the other day and was surprised by some names of the coilovers they had for s14s. Sard GT Spec and Swift Super Mach, pretty rare and I wonder if they would be as good as I think they are. Don't forget Silk Road.. heard some good reviews about those.

http://www.autornd.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=9_46_119_1010_6043&osCsid=1aa267cc1dc5919295e9c57d69216ee6

[usdm180sx]

Kei office is now DG-5. Bad ass and just as expensive. I would also add Tein Mono Flex to the middle range price list

[Silvia_S13]

move the MAX coilovers to 1000> as they only cost 1000, and are great coilovers especially for the price. ALL my friends run these, me included, and i know of people selling 1400+$ coilovers jus to get the max ones.

great post.

[Wiisass]

Dennis Grant claims to have done something similar.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

I'm a fan of what Dennis wrote. It's a good guide based on actual experience and what seems like mostly unbiased reports. I mean if you really want good track coilovers, look at what real race teams and privateers are running. There aren't many using JDM coilovers and if there are, there's a good chance they're either revalved and tested. Or there's a good chance, they could be faster if they were using better shocks.

But I also agree with Squidd, who is giving these reviews. No offense meant, but I don't trust the detailed suspension reviews of many people on this site. It's not that I don't think the people know what they're feeling, it's that I think they don't have a good benchmark to compare their current setup to. Not many people have actually driven and raced on a well setup damper system. That's not saying that people don't know how it should feel, but some people aren't experienced enough to give a good review. Saying coilovers are harsh could mean many different things and may be misconstrued as something else. Which is what I've seen on paper when comparing the MAX plots to people's feedback.

[Aoshi112]

I'm a fan of what Dennis wrote. It's a good guide based on actual experience and what seems like mostly unbiased reports. I mean if you really want good track coilovers, look at what real race teams and privateers are running. There aren't many using JDM coilovers and if there are, there's a good chance they're either revalved and tested. Or there's a good chance, they could be faster if they were using better shocks.

But I also agree with Squidd, who is giving these reviews. No offense meant, but I don't trust the detailed suspension reviews of many people on this site. It's not that I don't think the people know what they're feeling, it's that I think they don't have a good benchmark to compare their current setup to. Not many people have actually driven and raced on a well setup damper system. That's not saying that people don't know how it should feel, but some people aren't experienced enough to give a good review. Saying coilovers are harsh could mean many different things and may be misconstrued as something else. Which is what I've seen on paper when comparing the MAX plots to people's feedback.

I wholeheartedly agree as well:bigok:

[keioffice]

edited edit

[aznpoopy]

it goes farther than that. it says some of those uber high end japanese coilover shocks are complete and utter trash... and then it gives you ten reasons why.

[x'ed]

it goes farther than that. it says some of those uber high end japanese coilover shocks are complete and utter trash... and then it gives you ten reasons why.


like which ones?

[aznpoopy]

its always good to get another point of view
just read it
he even labels it 1-10
he has another section that defines "crap" 1-6

[glitched]

This list is half useless as half the names are either mis categorized or are basically saying all of a companies models of coilovers fall into a certain category.

the autocross secrets linked above is far more usefull. most JDM stuff is the same crap, outsourced manufacturer's, rebranding , etc etc....

[Aoshi112]

so they are saying that koni shocks are better than any of the japanese coilovers??? that doesnt make sense.

Pretty much. If you actually read the rest of Dennis Grant's page you'd understand why.

[Aoshi112]

like which ones?

10. Shocks that adjusted rebound and compression in lockstep, but had so much compression that backing them down to reasonable levels made rebound way too soft (very common with the Japanese brands like GAB, JIC, Tein, etc)

I posted this in another thread but i'll post it again:

Where there's no Bilstein fitment and Penskes are too expensive, Konis are usually perfectly adaquate. They are, by far, the best budget shock and better than any of the crap coming out of Japan. JIC, GAB, Tokiko, Tein - synonyms for "crap".


-Jason

[AceInHole]

so they are saying that koni shocks are better than any of the japanese coilovers??? that doesnt make sense.

It makes perfect sense. Koni has been in the racing game for close to 50 years, with a lot of involvement in F1.

[Wiisass]

I really want to adapt Koni's FSD to an s-chassis. It's going be next after getting the Bilstein project tested and ready for marketing. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's really an good way to look at damping and when it's needed.

[AceInHole]

I really want to adapt Koni's FSD to an s-chassis. It's going be next after getting the Bilstein project tested and ready for marketing. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's really an good way to look at damping and when it's needed.

It looks as though the primary piston is a normal shim stack type, but I'm not sure if you could tune the FSD valve.... it'd be an interesting project, though (one that I'd love to help test and tune :) ).

I'm really looking forward to the completion of your Bilstein project, and to doing a mini shock shootout :P

[Wiisass]

I think you're right about the shim stack on the piston, but it might be setup a lot stiffer than a normal shim stack and used as more of a blow off valve than anything else. And most of the damping is controlled with the FSD valve. But I'm not sure, I need to find that article again, the stuff on Koni's website it too dumbed down to really get anything out of it. Or maybe I just can't find the original stuff that was up there. Who knows, navigating through koni's million different websites is a skill that I have lost.

But you're right, I need to get the Bilstein's done so we can do our shootout. If I keep thinking of different ideas, I'm never going to get it done. Next thing I'll be talking about is those 4-way adjustable ZF Sachs rally dampers and trying to get them onto a 240. But that's for another time.

I just wish the 240 was as easy as the supra. You really need to let me know next time you're down in this area and I'll let you drive that thing around for a little. It will give you a little sneak peak of what the S13 Bilsteins are going to feel like.

[AceInHole]

I might end up in Warminster if they have a race before the end of the year, and I think Philly has a winter season, as well. I'd probably be in the G, though.

Also, I'm wondering if Koni's FSD system is similar to Moton's blow-off valve system. It seems as though FSD is more complicated, as though it goes by frequency/ cycle speed rather than piston velocity.

[Wiisass]

I think the Warminster Autox might have been last weekend, but I don't know if there's more.

The thing with FSD, when I look at Koni's site, it just screams marketing BS. But the article I read in Racecar engineering actually explained how it worked better and made it sound more beneficial. Or maybe they're just doing a better job marketing to people that know what they're talking about.

From Koni's website, it looks like a preloaded foot valve. Nothing new or crazy, it's all been done before. And I guess it could be simlply that but with an extra bell or whistle thrown in somewhere. I need to find that article and reread it, see if there's something I'm not thinking of. But if it does act like it seems based on their site, then it would be similar to a blow off valve. I mean, the idea of the blow off valve in the damper isn't really anything new. Any digressive shock has it in some form or another. There's a bleed and when the bleed gets saturated, the big shim bends and releases pressure, but it really doesn't realease pressure, it just opens up a bigger passage for the fluid to travel through.

Who knows, Koni could've just done a Laplace transform on some dyno plots and came up with this theory and sent it to the marketing guys and told them to run with it. But I thought there was something more there. Oh well, I'll find the article later and let you know if I think of anything else.

But if it is just a blow off valve, then I take back my previous statement about fitting it on an S13 and will move on to the ZF Sachs stuff because it's so awesome that no one even knows about them.

Oh, one thing I noticed that was weird is on Koni's site, they have animation, and they have on where they pretend to run the shock on a dyno at different frequencies and amplitudes so they can keep the peak velocity the same. But on the plots, rebound is changing with frequency changes rather than compression. But the animation shows how the valve reacts based on compression movement and pressures. And I would assume that it would affect compression more than rebound because by lowering compression damping forces, you are lowering the percentage of force that gets transmitted to the chassis. But then again, high rebound forces can also create a harsh ride, but I would still think the focus would be on compression.

[AceInHole]

Found this on a bimmer forum
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/AceInHole/Koni_FSD_damping.jpg
Originally from: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62541&d=1133330065

I wonder if the valve acting in compression is what affects rebound. Depending on the time between compression and rebound, damping would be different (i.e. if the direction of travel changes before the valve fully opens or closes, with varying damping between depending on the frequency of change).

They also list the FSD shock as being used on the McLaren-Mercedes Vodafone F1 car. It doesn't seem to be complete hype...

[monkeyslide17]

Does anyone know the reviews on the d2 coilovers? been looking but cant seem to find any thing on them. alittile but of info would be nice thanks..

[ZX88]

Does anyone know the reviews on the d2 coilovers? been looking but cant seem to find any thing on them. alittile but of info would be nice thanks..

d2s are basically k sports same shock im pretty sure. they also have the same spring rate 9/7 so pretty bearable for daily driving.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t319737.html
googled it and this came up

[initial_drifter]

Anyone ever run on Ikeya Formula, Moton, or Ohlins?

[fakingdeath]

no mention of the RSR coils?

[BRB26]

Alot of the JDM coilovers are manufactured in Taiwan, but I know for a fact that All Tanabe products are designed and manufatured in Japan. KYB manufacures the dampers for Tanabe.

[fd3s14]

i didnt know ksport was that bad

[low and slow]

subscribed, and + rep

[smelly240]

it depends what ksports u get - there are kontrol (cheapies) gt pros (inverted fronts), circuit pros (i think they have remote res), and slide kontrols. -- the cheapies are well... cheapies.

Why is PBM in the 1100-1500? arent those 900?

I think that some people are biased towards their kind of motorsport - I like that we have all these different types of people with different uses and levels of competition - all chiming in with what worked (or didnt work) for them. For people that just want to slam it and hardpark to the guy running penskes or koni racing dampers :) I personally wouldnt invest in koni race shocks for a street car tho.

[KiDyNomiTe]

I have to agree with most this is only useful for price guide, but even then there are different models. For instance Stance would fall into all 3 categories, the special order 3 ways in expensive. the GR+ and +pro and AL+ in mid range, and the sports in cheap stuff.

And in the end all this is subjective to driver preference

[ZX88]

I have to agree with most this is only useful for price guide, but even then there are different models. For instance Stance would fall into all 3 categories, the special order 3 ways in expensive. the GR+ and +pro and AL+ in mid range, and the sports in cheap stuff.

And in the end all this is subjective to driver preference

i agree with you this is subjective to driver preference and the type of driving you are going to use them for. The categorizing is pretty much based on price now.

I updated the layout and listed a bunch of models of each brand under each category.

[AceInHole]

Anyone ever run on Ikeya Formula, Moton, or Ohlins?

Most people who spend $4000+ on dampers aren't forum-goers. You don't really need someone to vouch for Ohlins being worth the price, though. Hoping to see how Motons are sometime, as they're pretty much the next step up from what I've got now.

[steve shadows]

I almost sold my KYB GC setup to go with Tanabe, but after driving a car with rebuilt Tien's and realizing my KYB + GC + Tein Camber plate set up handles better im going to try it out at the track first.

[heychris]

Good general thread..

Agree with folks above...if you want THE SH** research what the factory teams are using and spend the dough, it will not be cheap..

Quick question though:
The car I bought has the GP Sports GR6 coilovers on it, had been in a minor L front shunt and the L front coilover looks to be bent :wtc: . I understand the GR6 is no longer manufactured. Where can I get these rebuilt?

TIA

[Aoshi112]

can we make this a sticky and build upon it?

[PoorMans180SX]

Just though I'd update

Don't forget Topline Aragosta. SPL sells them. The dampers are built in the Netherlands and can be custom valved to any spring rate you want when you order ($200). They even come with they're own shock dyno sheet. They come two way adjustable but you can upgrade to three way.

$2486 base price

[x'ed]

whoever neg repped me and said "you are not the cause of changes" because of the post I made in this thread is an idiot. It was a joke, as this thread was started after I started a coilover thread and people got frustrated. I was making fun of myself by saying "I am glad to see I am the cause of changes, whatever the reason may be", because the thread was started out of annoyance of yet another question about coilovers being started. So get a life guy, instead of searching back two months for a post i made just so you could neg rep me again, whoever you are.

[GabeS14]

whoever neg repped me and said "you are not the cause of changes" because of the post I made in this thread is an idiot. It was a joke, as this thread was started after I started a coilover thread and people got frustrated. I was making fun of myself by saying "I am glad to see I am the cause of changes, whatever the reason may be", because the thread was started out of annoyance of yet another question about coilovers being started. So get a life guy, instead of searching back two months for a post i made just so you could neg rep me again, whoever you are.

dude... the more you complain the more people rag on you...it sucks but the sooned u learn the better..
just become a premium member so u can see who repped you then go call him out!!

[x'ed]

Im not complaining, I am saying its a bitch move. What kind of loser searches for an old post and neg reps me for a comment I posted two months ago. And then some guy calls me a faggot. Gurantee he won't fess up, are you from so. cal whoever that was?

[GabeS14]

that happened, to me a few times before, happened to prob anyone here that has been around for a few months or more.,.it sucks, but its even worse when its someone that isnt even discussing anything in the thread, has absolutley no input, and is just passing buy doesnt like your post and reps you!

[x'ed]

that happened, to me a few times before, happened to prob anyone here that has been around for a few months or more.,.it sucks, but its even worse when its someone that isnt even discussing anything in the thread, has absolutley no input, and is just passing buy doesnt like your post and reps you!


Yeah, I really don't get that. It just makes it difficult to sell things when people see all red under your name.

[ZenkitonS14]

This thread is pointless, whats "good" and whats "bad" is all a matter of peoples opinion. "Im gonna get such and such coilovers, because people told me to.":loco:

[Wiisass]

This thread is pointless, whats "good" and whats "bad" is all a matter of peoples opinion. "Im gonna get such and such coilovers, because people told me to.":loco:

Not really though. Good and bad can be measured and defined. Based on the suspension, the car and the spring rates, you can calculate what amount of damping you want for compression and rebound. And if this were a perfect world or at least a world where more manufacturers would produce dyno charts, that information could be obtained. And how good or bad they are could be determined. There is supposed to be a lot of engineering that goes into selecting spring rates and damping values, but it seems that a lot of people don't realize that.

The reviews on the internet don't really mean that much depending on who is saying. No offense against anyone, but most people's feedback needs to be taken with a grain of salt (or more) depending on their experience. It seems a lot of people will go from a stock blown suspension to something new and no matter what it is, say it feels awesome. But there are some people out there that know what a good damper is supposed to feel like and that it's supposed to do and these are the people who's feedback can be valuable.

[ZenkitonS14]

Well put

jkhjkhjkhkh

[EJ253]

-Stance GR+ (from FRsport)
super stiff! (6k/7k/8k/9k springs included) and i like the fact that Stance is in chicago, so if i need to get anything fixed its easy to communicate with them, and shipping would be less

-Tein Type HA
not so stiff. but solid none the less. getting replacement parts was extremely difficult and took a long time. although tein did replace the broken parts for free (good warrenty)


hopefully thats helping to contribute to the thread :)

[yudalicious]

hah! I love how there's 2 different threads going in one: people with real experience talking about real dampers, and people talking about the dampers that the aforementioned experienced folks rag on, seemingly clueless to what has been going on in the rest of the thread. Bravo to the team of Wiisass and AceInHole, just a year and half ago this thread would've been a JDM whore humpfest.

A quick question that I'm sure Wiisass will answer, the off the shelf Koni yellows are only adjustable off the car, what's exactly involved in coverting it to on-car adjustable labor wise? By that I mean if one is to get them converted, I assume it'd also be the best time to do any sort of revalving? I've been a fan of the Yellows/GC setup for years, but I chickened out partially because the rears are nonadjustable on car.

[DSPro]

RYO R-II Himax Dampers. By far the best setup I have ever run. Damping is great, they've EXTEREMELY durable, easily overhauled, and they're well built here in Japan. Ryo-san brought the experts from advantage in to create the perfect oil for them.

I've been putting a set through hell for over a year now and haven't had one problem. And by hell I mean 5-6 hour of constant drifting once or twice a week at Bihoku Highlands.

[AceInHole]

A quick question that I'm sure Wiisass will answer, the off the shelf Koni yellows are only adjustable off the car, what's exactly involved in coverting it to on-car adjustable labor wise? By that I mean if one is to get them converted, I assume it'd also be the best time to do any sort of revalving? I've been a fan of the Yellows/GC setup for years, but I chickened out partially because the rears are nonadjustable on car.

I'm sure Wiisass will agree: once your rears are set correctly, there's virtually no need to adjust them. However, they CAN be made externally adjustable, I'm just not sure what's involved or the cost (just revalving is in the $160 range). Your best bet would be to ask a company that does a lot of work with Koni, like TrueChoice or TC Kline (not sure if they do non-BMW though) if they can make a bolt-on setup to your spec.

The other option is to run Koni 8610 or 8611's in custom housings, which veilside180sx has been making. They're much beefier shocks, and once your custom setup is made, the modular design makes for easy repair/ replacement.

[Wiisass]

Yes, I agree with what AceinHole said. I also think a non-adjustable shock is just fine for 90% of the people out there. Of course, this means a properly valved and matched to the setup, non-adjustable damper.

But I'm not sure what's involved, I haven't messed around enough with the Koni's or taken them apart, so I'm not as familiar with their internals. But call around and find out what it would cost to make them externally adjustable and if a revalving could be done for little extra at that point.

Tim

[sl4ck3r]

I would like to get started in autocross and am looking for a good suspension setup.. I'm looking to spend ~1500 give or take a couple hundred. what would be your suggestions?

Thanks for the help and information.

[mmdb]

You forgot to post about stuff that actually works.

High end:
Ohlins/ JRZ/ Penske: Currently no off the shelf model. Not expecting 240 owners to look towards these anyways as they: a. actually work, and b. actually cost money. Ohlins did bolt on stuff for the S13 and S14, not available in the US, though.


Dunno if this has been mentioned within the post, but called AMS today and apparently they do have Ohlins made for the s14. From what I was told they're both compression and rebound adjustable. Cost is ~3200 or so. On the side note I was told Ohlins are designed for high speed dampening, which could be undesirable for certain setups.

[eastcoastS14]

I recently installed my sustec pro sevens. Just looking at them you can tell they are very high quality.... Very beefy and solid. Although once I installed them they are pretty bouncy but I havent had any chance to adjust them at all....once I get a chance I can get a better sense of how they handle. The only thing I can say Im not neccessarily a fan of is the manual adjustment knobs....they kind of just sit on the top of the valve and seem like they could just fall off very easily

[EchoOfSilence]

oiy.

everything and anything can look "beefy" and "solid". Such non-value-added words

[PoorMans180SX]

I would like to get started in autocross and am looking for a good suspension setup.. I'm looking to spend ~1500 give or take a couple hundred. what would be your suggestions?

Thanks for the help and information.

You're going to want to do some reading my friend. This thread and and "is ground control suspension worth it?" in the tech section are full of good info.

I'll give you the basics: Koni shocks with Ground Control sleeves and some form of top mount.

[AceInHole]

You're going to want to do some reading my friend. This thread and and "is ground control suspension worth it?" in the tech section are full of good info.

I'll give you the basics: Koni shocks with Ground Control sleeves and some form of top mount.

For the price range he's looking at, he might be able to get a set of 8610's with custom housings from veilside180sx. They're valved more towards race springs, and can handle up to something like an 800lb/in spring (roughly 14.3kg/mm).

[EchoOfSilence]

for 1500?


really....

[SicBastard]

I scored a used set (all four) of S14 adjustable ohlins coilovers from some fly-by-night Canadian importer on E-bay. They were a bit beat up, so before even installing them I shipped them off to Ohlins USA last week, for a rebuild, and replacement of whatever is needed. They came with some mystery Rs*R springs, and I've asked Curtis over there at Ohlins USA in SC to measure their rates for me and also to find out what the spring rates are that Ohlins reccomends for these. He told me that he can order a new set for me any day of the week for about $3000.

MMDB, what did you mean by, "Ohlins are designed for high speed dampening."

All dampers have specific characteristics at both low and high speed movements. Ohlins has become well known for their advancements in digressive valving technology.

How could this, "be undesirable for certain setups"?

Are you refering to a drag race set-up?

[hijack3d]

The quality isn't necessarily directly proportional to the price.
Also, there are other things to consider, such as warranty, support for rebuilds in the U.S., and etc.

Very true. It'd be nice to list the manufacturers that actually give stateside support. I only know (and correct me if I'm wrong):

Stateside support:

Greddy
Tein
KTS
K-Sport
PowerMax
Megan
Buddy Club

People are welcome to add on to that, or subtract, just thought it'd be a good list for the ultra n00bs....

And I also agree that price doesn't always determine quality. There are a lot of companies now that seem to be manufacturering their own coilovers, not so well known so they're slightly less expensive, but still decent quality.

[turtl631]

Regarding the 8610s, you can register on nissanroadracing.com and read in the dampers/springs forum to find the prices on the setup. With spherical bearing camber plates front and rear, a ground control setup all around, the front and rear brackets, and the dampers themselves, it comes to around $2100 I believe. However, by running stock upper mounts, finding the GC setup used, etc., you could cut that price by quite a bit.

[eastcoastS14]

oiy.

everything and anything can look "beefy" and "solid". Such non-value-added words

trust me if you pick up a set of pro sevens you can see the overall good craftmanship....appearance does count for something, you can usually tell quality vs. crap just by looking at it

and i also adjusted the damping on my sevens and there is such a huge difference now, they ride so nice

[vw_nissan]

trust me if you pick up a set of pro sevens you can see the overall good craftmanship....appearance does count for something, you can usually tell quality vs. crap just by looking at it

and i also adjusted the damping on my sevens and there is such a huge difference now, they ride so nice

Really interested in how these compared to Koni's

[EJ253]

i dont know how well this thread works.
i mean all i got out of the first post is the prices...
i can see the prices at any website.

any real useful info is scattered and everyones opinion is different about them, so that doesnt really help either

i dont know how to fix this dilemma, but its something to consider
maybe compare spring rates or warrentys, idk

[turtl631]

Haha, spring rates = 8k F 6k R for a good 90% of coilovers out there for these cars. Clearly, there's lots of careful, independent R&D going into the design of each product.

[GabeS14]

question about K-sport,
on first page it shows
Ksport Kontrol drift as (cheaper but good coilover)
and also
Kontrol (alone)as one of the crappy stuff..
is Kontrol drift the same as Kontrol Pro that is sold all over Egay?

[hijack3d]

this is a good guide as to prices, but doesn't really get into the meat of what makes one coilover better than another (all other options being equal)... the shock.

You're absolutely right... When I'm shopping for coilovers I like to know:

Is there stateside support?
A warranty?
Longevity? How long can I expect them to last?
How adjustable is this? 18-way? 32-way? 1,003,422-way?
Ride quality?
How's the design of the coilover? Does it allow for proper adjustments to be made without hassle?
Pillow ball mounts?
Possible resale value? I think the OP had a good start... No one really reviewed their coilovers like he asked though... but there are just tons more questions that need to be answered..

[eastcoastS14]

sustec pro sevens
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/coilovers/SEVEN.asp

TEAS controller
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/coilovers/TEAS.asp

expect to pay about $2500 for the combo

in any case its hard to compare all coilovers anyway since anyone who's running a particular set will most likely like them to some extent or else they wouldnt have em. In all reality it only matters so much since you will never know the difference anyway as most of us will never have the chance to ride in a car with every coilover. I recommend getting something with a decent amount of features in your price range that will serve what you intend to do with your car well...if people can share experiences like "oh mine broke after a month and it took for ever to get a rebuild" or 'ive never had a problem with these" that would help but just saying what you do or do not like only helps a little

[soreballz]

Any thoughts on these?
http://www.peak-performance.net/content/view/192/58/
"Peak coils made by AST.
Compression Adjustment - 10 position
Rebound Adjustment - Infinite Adjustment 3.5 turns
Helper or Tender Spring included
Top pillow mount included
Different spring rates and valving can be ordered to fit your driving needs."

Rebound/compression/height adjustable + custom valving/spring rates sounds pretty good. No clue on the price, though.

[kouki_s14]

I scored a used set (all four) of S14 adjustable ohlins coilovers from some fly-by-night Canadian importer on E-bay. They were a bit beat up, so before even installing them I shipped them off to Ohlins USA last week, for a rebuild, and replacement of whatever is needed. They came with some mystery Rs*R springs, and I've asked Curtis over there at Ohlins USA in SC to measure their rates for me and also to find out what the spring rates are that Ohlins reccomends for these. He told me that he can order a new set for me any day of the week for about $3000.

MMDB, what did you mean by, "Ohlins are designed for high speed dampening."

All dampers have specific characteristics at both low and high speed movements. Ohlins has become well known for their advancements in digressive valving technology.

How could this, "be undesirable for certain setups"?

Are you refering to a drag race set-up?

how much is the rebuild costing you?

[Aoshi112]

Any thoughts on these?
http://www.peak-performance.net/content/view/192/58/
"Peak coils made by AST.
Compression Adjustment - 10 position
Rebound Adjustment - Infinite Adjustment 3.5 turns
Helper or Tender Spring included
Top pillow mount included
Different spring rates and valving can be ordered to fit your driving needs."

Rebound/compression/height adjustable + custom valving/spring rates sounds pretty good. No clue on the price, though.

These sound pretty interesting. I just did a bit of research on AST themselves and it seems the founder used to work for Koni for 35 years. The AST UK website has AST Sportline 1s for s13s listed at 795 English Pounds. Probably safe to say these Peak Performance coils are going to cost a pretty penny of at least $1500 or more? Definitely sounds nice though.

-Jason

[ChingSR20]

Company:Nex
Model:GT
Review:Pretty good suspension i got from one of my sponsors so i cant complain.
I had it for a year now and nothing has gone wrong with them, Though one of my friends picked up a set and one of the struts were already blown, but they sent him a new set that was fine.
They are a really stiff suspension even on the softest setting and there is
very little body roll. I use this on my DD and I track the car at least twice a week. Id suggest this to someone that is on a budget but I personally would want to try some of the better known brands with better features.

[SicBastard]

how much is the rebuild costing you?

I'm not sure yet. I shipped them out 11 days ago, since then I have written an e-mail and called, but I havn't had a response, and got an answering machine saying that they were busy doing stocking or some b/s. I wrote Ohlins USA to make sure that they could still get all the parts before I shipped them out. They basically said absolutely, there's just going to be a wait while the float over from japan. I didn't even bother asking about price, I picked them up used for $650 in pretty ruff shape and am just hoping the rebuild and parts come in under a grand. I'll post more when I have Ohlins actual price break down and hourly rate.

[PoorMans180SX]

Any thoughts on these?
http://www.peak-performance.net/content/view/192/58/
"Peak coils made by AST.
Compression Adjustment - 10 position
Rebound Adjustment - Infinite Adjustment 3.5 turns
Helper or Tender Spring included
Top pillow mount included
Different spring rates and valving can be ordered to fit your driving needs."

Rebound/compression/height adjustable + custom valving/spring rates sounds pretty good. No clue on the price, though.

I don't get it. I click on the AST coils, and then it shows me KW's?

There are no AST coils for the S-chassis on that site. However, they do make dampers for the S13 and S14, but only in the Sport Line 1 kits, which don't come with top mounts. They are very high-quality dampers.

AND I have just confirmed that AST also manufactures the Topline Aragosta coilovers I keep talking about. So that means high-quality monotube shocks in a pre-assembled coilover form. Best of both worlds if you ask me. They are available from SPLparts.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/73939-aragosta-coilovers-v-nismo-s-tunes.html

http://www.splparts.com/Parts/Z32/Suspension/Coilovers/ToplineAragosta.jpg

[RiverCitySlim]

Self-admitted noob here, and this is more info than I can absorb at one go, and I've read through about three times now! If I'm reading this all correctly, The Koni yellow's are a solid unit for track and some DD, combined with a Ground Control sleeve kit (which I assume allows for ride height adjustment) and an adjustable top mount which allows for camber adjustment. Does anyone using aftermarket control arms, radius rods, etc. have a suggestion for a quality manufacturer? While new to the 240, I've built a few old muscle cars and had great luck with companies like Hotchkiss and BMR. I feel a bit out of my depth trying to start all over, and any help would be appreciated.

[0100]

^Quality go with
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=164651

or even
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=144069

[GSXRJJordan]

Wow I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before.

EastcoastS14 posted about his Tanabe Sevens, but missed out on what I think makes them the best coilover buy - the customizability!

Most coilovers, at any price point, have a spring that's set by the customer base (meaning softer for "autocross" and stiffer for "drifting"), then a damper that, hopefully, will work well across a very narrow adjustment range. This is undesirable for someone like me, who wants to be able to drive the car aggressively around town/freeways/etc, while maintaining maximum traction, with as smooth/predictable a ride as possible - but also drift well/predictably when the car's track ready.

After working for a Formula-D driver during the 06 season, I learned that EVERY professional drift car has unbelievably stiff springs and valving. Like, so stiff, the most hardcore zilvia wannabe would never drive like that on the street. So ideally you'd buy a set of coilovers that perform well when set very stiff, but also perform well (meaning no bouncing/excessive rebound) when you turn the compression down. This is what the Tanabe Sevens do.

Aside from these (my Sustec Pro Sevens), the only other setup I'd consider would be the KWs/Toplines (same thing, basically, from everything I hear), because they're raved about for similar reasons (actual adjustability, with rebound tracking with compression across the adjustment range), or a true 4-way adjustable setup (compression, rebound, ride height, preload). After tuning so many motorcycle suspensions (which have high- and low-speed compression and rebound adjustments), I just can't see going with a setup that locks you into one type of driving style, with cars that are otherwise so versatile.

Lets keep this thread on track with any other comparisons/contrasts to actual high-end suspension solutions, and how you tested/why you chose how you did. I like the fact that this isn't overrun with cheap shit, for lack of a better term.

[hellaflush]

+1 for silkroad section spec rma8

their new 08 model just came out too with external resevoirs... shit looks pro

[GSXRJJordan]

Silkroads are known as very decent coils... I was actually interested in buying them, until I found out they weren't serviceable in the US. Tanabes are :)

[hellaflush]

hell im in australia and use them... noone has heard of them over here

i havent had one go bust on me yet and i dont plan on them to but if one does get damaged ill just order a new one from jp

[Wiisass]

Wow I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before.

EastcoastS14 posted about his Tanabe Sevens, but missed out on what I think makes them the best coilover buy - the customizability!

Most coilovers, at any price point, have a spring that's set by the customer base (meaning softer for "autocross" and stiffer for "drifting"), then a damper that, hopefully, will work well across a very narrow adjustment range. This is undesirable for someone like me, who wants to be able to drive the car aggressively around town/freeways/etc, while maintaining maximum traction, with as smooth/predictable a ride as possible - but also drift well/predictably when the car's track ready.

After working for a Formula-D driver during the 06 season, I learned that EVERY professional drift car has unbelievably stiff springs and valving. Like, so stiff, the most hardcore zilvia wannabe would never drive like that on the street. So ideally you'd buy a set of coilovers that perform well when set very stiff, but also perform well (meaning no bouncing/excessive rebound) when you turn the compression down. This is what the Tanabe Sevens do.

Aside from these (my Sustec Pro Sevens), the only other setup I'd consider would be the KWs/Toplines (same thing, basically, from everything I hear), because they're raved about for similar reasons (actual adjustability, with rebound tracking with compression across the adjustment range), or a true 4-way adjustable setup (compression, rebound, ride height, preload). After tuning so many motorcycle suspensions (which have high- and low-speed compression and rebound adjustments), I just can't see going with a setup that locks you into one type of driving style, with cars that are otherwise so versatile.

Lets keep this thread on track with any other comparisons/contrasts to actual high-end suspension solutions, and how you tested/why you chose how you did. I like the fact that this isn't overrun with cheap shit, for lack of a better term.

The Tanabe Sevens weren't that great. And I hated the adjuster. It seemed like it could've been a good idea in theory, but I think Tanabe just dropped the ball when it came to putting the whole package together. If I understood the idea right or even if I gave them more credit than they deserved, the alignment of the adjuster would need to be dead on to work properly. Without that accurate alignment, damping would be whatever it wanted to be depending on how close the holes were to lining up. So if you could get that alignment, you would have a decent adjuster, but then they give you that cheap plastic adjuster piece. With a ton of play in it and very hard to get things even and at least adjusted the same side to side. So that just lot a ton of points. And I don't get how you're saying their more customizable?

As for coilovers at any price point coming with springs? Are you capping your price point at the top level of cheap stuff? All the JDM stuff comes with spring rates, but look at Moton or Koni or Penske or any other companies like that, they don't tell you what spring rates you should run.

And for wanting a damper to do everything. It's a damper, there are compromises. You can, and I have, valved dampers to ride nicely on the street, but still handle well on the road course and at drift events. It's all in the valving. But even though the car rode awesome, especially considering the spring rates, it still wasn't as comfortable a ride as in some stock normal person car. What you're saying would be like asking your engine to act like an NA V8 for driving around town, but then turn into a high powered turbo car when you get to the track. It doesn't happen. There's compromises here just like everywhere else. Unless you decide to put some MR (not megan racing, magnetorheological) dampers on the car, you aren't going to be able to get that. It's just impossible with a decarbon type damper.

And I don't think all FD cars are running super stiff springs and valving. I'm pretty sure I know of a couple that aren't. But if most are, it just shows where the sport is in terms of suspension development. I'm sure some teams are doing some good work, but I'm also sure a lot of people have found that a car will slide easier when everything is basically rigid. It's the driver's that need to go faster and have a more predictable car that are going a little softer and trying to get the valving to match the car. There are a lot of gains to be made in good dampers for any motorsport, drifting included. People will try and say that stiffest is the best, but I bet they haven't driven on a proper setup in anything competitive before. Stiffer is easier to get started with, but you're going to fight it when you're trying to go faster. You need grip for drifting and you won't get that when you're running way too stiff valving for the rest of the setup.

A true 4-way adjustable setup is not rebound, compression, height and preload when you're talking about a damper. A 4-way adjustable damper is low-speed rebound, low-speed compression, high-speed rebound, high-speed compression. Height and preload don't even need to be considered. And the only reason most companies need height and preload adjustment to be seperate is because their using a very modular setup so they don't have to make as many parts. If you had a properly sized damper for the ride height you wanted, you would only need one method of height adjustment. And if you were really good, you wouldn't need any.

The thing is, given a car that doesn't change weight for different events, and spring rates and sway bars that don't change for different events, you shouldn't need much adjustment in the damper for different events. Some fine tuning may be needed, but that is all you should really need. And that would also just be low speed tuning, high speed would normally stay about the same or there wouldn't be much reason to change it. That's assuming that the curves are good to begin with though. Which wouldn't characterize most of the normal setups that people here have experienced. But for a performance car, there's not a huge range of damping adjustment that you would need unless you're moving ballast around a lot or changing spring rates all the time. And if you feel the need for any big spring rate changes or changes in the weight or weight distribution of the car, then you should consider different dampers or revalveable dampers.

Tim

[GSXRJJordan]

^^^ Tim, I appreciate the time and effort you put into every post you make, especially the suspension- and cage-related ones :)

When I first saw the Sevens' adjuster, I thought the same thing you did, but after putting it all together, I had ZERO play in the plastic knob... it definitely stayed put - not saying that the adjuster was a thing of art or the best engineering idea ever, but the adjuster was positively positioned by the alignment of the perch, and the perch was positively positioned by the notched/threaded damper body, so I was sure the valving would be matched on each damper.

The springs thing - I'm not saying that a damper company will dictate what springs to run, I'm saying that for most buyers, the motorsport/venue of choice does that for you ~ and if you buy into that mentality, you're searching for spring rate first/damping second. Most people do a little math, search the forums, and then buy a set of springs... it's the same with motorcycles, and believe me, most people that I competed in WERA/CCS/FUSA with were not sprung correctly either. The truth is, the only way to really know is to run different setups (springs/sway setups at least) and figure out which compromise you feel most comfortable with, but that's out of most drivers' effort/cost range.

About adjustability - I agree that for a car that doesn't change weight, you shouldn't need to change springs/ride height once you set it for your chosen duty... but so many of us change wheel setups/aero/etc and enjoy the height adjustability - after all, these are cars that are street driven at least some of the time. I also know that a true 4-way damper has separate high- and low-speed adjustments for comp and rebound, but when you're talking about a coilover that has separate compression and rebound adjustments, every company I've seen calls that a 4-way adjustable unit - just using the "parlance of our times".

And finally, the F-D suspension "secret"... even with super stiff settings EVERYONE runs, there is enough feedback to let the pros drifting on Megan 12/10 setups compete with the D1 guys drifting on Zeals. There's simply not enough difference in how the dampers perform at the stiff end of the valving to differentiate. So for everyone out there who wants to "buy what the pros use on their 240s", its useless, because you'll never run them that stiff. That was my only point ~

In my opinion, the true quality of a coilover system on s-chassis cars comes in how well they perform when NOT set to full stiff - and I'm naturally the first to point out that I have a fantastic benchmark for all my suspension trials - a mostly stock c5 z06. Lowered using extended bolts, but otherwise stock suspension - and damn hard to beat :)

[PoorMans180SX]

And finally, the F-D suspension "secret"... even with super stiff settings EVERYONE runs, there is enough feedback to let the pros drifting on Megan 12/10 setups compete with the D1 guys drifting on Zeals.


Zeals really aren't the super-quality dampers everyone makes them out to be. Don't get me wrong, they're a step above the base stuff, but unless you get the multiply(<--a real word?) adjustable ones and spend some time with them, they really aren't the best.

There's simply not enough difference in how the dampers perform at the stiff end of the valving to differentiate. So for everyone out there who wants to "buy what the pros use on their 240s", its useless, because you'll never run them that stiff. That was my only point ~




I don't really believe that is entirely true. There can be quite a large difference in the high-speed damping (what you're referring to as the stiff end?), enough to make a car that is noticeably more composed when traveling at high speeds on a bumpier track.

[Aeroscraper326]

Company: Sessions Power

Model: Sessions Power Turtles

Review: FUCKING AWESOME coilovers, Extremely hard to get but worth every penny. More of a VIP type coilover But can withstand extreme driving.


Company: Top Secret

Model: Top secret custom tuned/valved S13 coilovers

Review: You get what you pay for, have yet to drive the car but it has to feel amazing.


Company: Moton

Model: Custom race coilovers

Review: The MOST amazing, teriffic, tit-Tastic coilover/race dampers i have ever driven on. They felt better then the penskes in a 911 sc race car i drove.

[PoorMans180SX]

Company: Top Secret

Model: Top secret custom tuned/valved S13 coilovers

Review: You get what you pay for, have yet to drive the car but it has to feel amazing.





I'm pretty darn sure Top Secret uses AST/Topline Aragosta dampers tuned to each application. Personally I'd rather (and plan to) order Topline's through SPL and pay the $200 to have them custom damped to whatever spring rates I want (damper dyno sheet included) total: $2900.

[revat619]

Stance GR+ Pro - yeah there's definitely better stuff out there, but it works great for what i need them for and they're serviceable here in the US.

Fwiw, I have used Tein, Apollo, JIC, KYB shocks/eibach springs, and have driven identically set up cars with Zeals, Powered by Max, and Silk Roads.

Hopefully that helps someone.

Great thread!

[Aeroscraper326]

I'm pretty darn sure Top Secret uses AST/Topline Aragosta dampers tuned to each application. Personally I'd rather (and plan to) order Topline's through SPL and pay the $200 to have them custom damped to whatever spring rates I want (damper dyno sheet included) total: $2900.

Yes top secret uses Aragosta dampers. I have heard the Aragosta dampers that Top Secret/ Topline varied in different ways?? Not quite sure on this but if anyone had more info that would be great.

However i only ended up paying $2800 for my coilovers.(hook-ups)

[PoorMans180SX]

probably spring rate and therefore damping.

Like I said, you can get Toplines custom damped for any spring rate you want for an extra $200. You can also get a 3-way adjustable upgrade (with remote reservoirs) but it's a little pricier at $1100 an axle. So you're basically up to Moton price range, and Moton has better serviceability in the US.

[Wiisass]

^^^ Tim, I appreciate the time and effort you put into every post you make, especially the suspension- and cage-related ones :)


Thanks Jordan, posts like yours make it easier for me, there's more info and thought in them than the normal "XXX coilover is awesome because it's really stiff and I can slam my car" posts.


When I first saw the Sevens' adjuster, I thought the same thing you did, but after putting it all together, I had ZERO play in the plastic knob... it definitely stayed put - not saying that the adjuster was a thing of art or the best engineering idea ever, but the adjuster was positively positioned by the alignment of the perch, and the perch was positively positioned by the notched/threaded damper body, so I was sure the valving would be matched on each damper.


I know what you're saying, it just seemed cheap to me. It just seemed like Tanabe was trying to introduce some clever new adjustment method and then capped it off with a cheap looking and feeling plastic adjuster knob. And maybe it was just the ones I had, but they definitely had some play in the knob, it probably wasn't as much as I made it sound in my original post, but I was also assuming that the adjuster inside the damper was a little more sophisticated than it probably is. Since I never had one apart and I never saw what was inside, I really can't be sure.


The springs thing - I'm not saying that a damper company will dictate what springs to run, I'm saying that for most buyers, the motorsport/venue of choice does that for you ~ and if you buy into that mentality, you're searching for spring rate first/damping second. Most people do a little math, search the forums, and then buy a set of springs... it's the same with motorcycles, and believe me, most people that I competed in WERA/CCS/FUSA with were not sprung correctly either. The truth is, the only way to really know is to run different setups (springs/sway setups at least) and figure out which compromise you feel most comfortable with, but that's out of most drivers' effort/cost range.


You're right, people have been lead to thinking that certain spring setups are the best for these cars. And that's without any consideration of weight or sway bar setup or ride height or anything that should be thought about to maintain a good oversteer/understeer balance of the car. But with how much the damping sucks on most of these setups out there right now, people could experiment with spring rates and get the balance back, but I really don't think that most people know.

And besides physical testing of different setups, a lot of math will also get you pretty close to the right base setup. I have some pretty serious spreadsheets that I have been using for the past couple years to get base setups for different cars. But they're a lot more in depth and detailed than most people would ever go. But even just looking at ride frequencies and picking springs based off that would be simple and people could do it.


About adjustability - I agree that for a car that doesn't change weight, you shouldn't need to change springs/ride height once you set it for your chosen duty... but so many of us change wheel setups/aero/etc and enjoy the height adjustability - after all, these are cars that are street driven at least some of the time. I also know that a true 4-way damper has separate high- and low-speed adjustments for comp and rebound, but when you're talking about a coilover that has separate compression and rebound adjustments, every company I've seen calls that a 4-way adjustable unit - just using the "parlance of our times".


I was talking about damping adjustability. I wouldn't think ride height would need to change that much either. I mean with a damper set to the proper length and only height adjustment at the spring perch, you should have a more than sufficient amount of adjustment. I mean you won't be able to go from stock ride height to super slammed, but there will still be some adjustment. And if you have a damper with enough travel, helper spring also work. And how many people really raise and lower their car for events versus driving on the street? Besides throwing off the alignment, it's a pain in the ass to do.

And I see what you're saying about the 4-way adjustable coilover versus the 4-way adjustable damper.


And finally, the F-D suspension "secret"... even with super stiff settings EVERYONE runs, there is enough feedback to let the pros drifting on Megan 12/10 setups compete with the D1 guys drifting on Zeals. There's simply not enough difference in how the dampers perform at the stiff end of the valving to differentiate. So for everyone out there who wants to "buy what the pros use on their 240s", its useless, because you'll never run them that stiff. That was my only point ~


I think the suspension setup for a lot of FD teams is lacking. I know there's some teams that are trying to do good suspension work and it shows in their driving and the results. But I'm sure there's a lot of people competing who wouldn't know the difference between minor suspension changes. But we'll see, I'm hoping to work with a couple FD driver's this season in getting some different dampers on the car and getting stuff dialed in, so we'll see how that goes.


In my opinion, the true quality of a coilover system on s-chassis cars comes in how well they perform when NOT set to full stiff - and I'm naturally the first to point out that I have a fantastic benchmark for all my suspension trials - a mostly stock c5 z06. Lowered using extended bolts, but otherwise stock suspension - and damn hard to beat :)

Lots of shocks won't work well with the adjuster all the way closed. Depending on the percentage of flow meant to go through the adjuster versus the percentage of the flow that goes through other bleed ports, it's going to hurt the performance of the damper to be at full stiff. It depends on how the piston is designed. If there is bleed through the piston and the adjuster is just additional bleeed then it can work as planned, but if the adjuster is the main bleed valve, the closer you get to closing that, the more cavitation and hysteresis you will have. It just means that the piston wasn't designed to be the bleed and blow off circuits. But I've used good dampers that didn't like the upper range of their adjustment.

I'm hoping that people will start to learn that stiff isn't always the best, especially when it comes to damping. A rough ride isn't good for handling or grip. And not having grip isn't good for drifting. So a rough ride isn't good for drifting. Too much rebound also isn't good for drifting, it will slow the car down in the transitions and you will be fighting to get the car to transition the way you want. A properly valved setup will make the car more point and shoot, it's easier to manipulate, you won't have problems with grip and if you pair it with good spring rates, including sway bars, you will have an awesome setup.

The problem is most people seem more concerned with height adjustability than damping. But not many people know what good damping is or feels like. But everyone knows what low looks like. But hopefully the work that myself, veilside180sx, aceinhole and others are doing will start to show people that good damping will help the car and possibly breaking some of the misconceptions or general brainwashing that has happened in the 240 world in regards to suspension setups.

Tim

[SicBastard]

And besides physical testing of different setups, a lot of math will also get you pretty close to the right base setup. I have some pretty serious spreadsheets that I have been using for the past couple years to get base setups for different cars. But they're a lot more in depth and detailed than most people would ever go. But even just looking at ride frequencies and picking springs based off that would be simple and people could do it.

Tim

Thanks again for your contributions guys!

Does anybody know the actual measurements of the control arms on a 240sx, that could be used to calculate ride frequencies?

How do you modify/quanitfy the change that is needed in your spring rates with changes in anti-roll bars? Any spread sheets you're willing to share?

I might need to make a trip to PA once my ohlins show up! I'm curious how well matched they are going to be right to left.

[bziggers13]

I love my stances...
good for dding on, imo

[Koopa Troopa]

Apparantly my custom built Topline Aragosta's have made my car a whole new beast in comparison to the Cusco Comp S that used to be on the car...

Friend said they're on the softest setting too...

[Aeroscraper326]

Aragosta Dampers are amazing, and well worth the money like aforementioned.

[Wiisass]

Thanks again for your contributions guys!

Does anybody know the actual measurements of the control arms on a 240sx, that could be used to calculate ride frequencies?

How do you modify/quanitfy the change that is needed in your spring rates with changes in anti-roll bars? Any spread sheets you're willing to share?

I might need to make a trip to PA once my ohlins show up! I'm curious how well matched they are going to be right to left.

The best way to get installation ratios is to actually measure what you want to know. Take the spring off, bolt the shock back up and move the suspension through it's range of travel. Measure height of the wheel center versus shock length and from that you can get installation ratio. And then you just need weights and some quick calcs and you have your frequencies.

As for the spring rates to work with sway bars, it depends on a lot of things. Suspension geometry, cg height and track factor in along with sway bar rates and spring rates. And sway bar rates and spring rates need to be normalized to allow for proper calculations. Because a spring rate doesn't really mean anything without knowing the installation ratio and it's the same for sway bars.

I don't have any spreadsheets that I'm willing to share. Too much time and money have gone into developing them and my simulation programs and if I gave them away it wouldn't be a good business move. But I can do analysis on your setup and I do consulting work for suspension setup and track tuning. So I can help you get everything dialed in.

How are you having the ohlins valved? Did you spec out what valving you want or are they just rebuilding them? Can they provide you with dyno plots for the dampers? Shoot me a PM if you need some help with any of this, we should be able to get something figured out.

Tim

[SicBastard]

The ohlins are just getting rebuilt back to stock specs, at Ohlins USA in NC. They promised that they would send me the dyno sheets when they finished. I bought the ohlins used, and a bit beat up, so I never even installed them. Nobody has any dyno sheets of them, so I thought that I would see how they turned out stock before making any adjustments. I have no problem revalving them if they don't turn out just as I want. I'll post up the sheets here when I get 'em.

I think that I'm going to have to just go pull apart my suspension and measure and weigh everything. I just can't believe that on this suposedly suspension-heavy site, no one has done it before.

How in the heck are we supposed to measure CG height?

[PoorMans180SX]

Apparantly my custom built Topline Aragosta's have made my car a whole new beast in comparison to the Cusco Comp S that used to be on the car...

Friend said they're on the softest setting too...

I'm extremely jealous. What spring rates did you get them built for? And did they include the dyno sheets?

[Koopa Troopa]

No, I got them second hand from Up Garage.. They use S15 fronts with custom brake line mounts and the rears are S13 dampers with a custom made bottom mount for short stroke (same as JGTC design).. Spring rates are 9.3/6.5..

[nicku]

anybody heard about D2 coilover? how are they performing compare to pbm?

[Holloway]

What coilovers for a street car that might see the track once or twice a year, but wants the performance boosts for use in street racing as well as track use.
Basically I just want something comfortable yet performance oriented.

[PoorMans180SX]

1. I don't really think this thread is for coilover questions.

2. You should probably read the thread before posting.

But:

nicku: D2's are the same made-in-Taiwan dampers as most of the other stuff.

Holloway: A Koni/Ground Control combo is the best thing for what you're looking for. Search "Is Ground Control Suspension worth it?" and read up.

[SicBastard]

I heard back from Ohlins last week. Their S14 coilovers come set up with 8f/6r springs. They didn't have a "stock" damper dyno-sheet for me but said that they would include one presuming that they could find the adapters needed to mount them in their dyno. I'm really getting the impression that they don't sell/service many of these. Either way, I'm probably going to be heading out to see Tim and his dyno to make sure that they were assembled properly and to find out exactly what the adjustment increments are.

[wickedjester]

i am building a s13 hatch for autocross and i was wondering if any one with auto cross exp. knows of a good coilover for it that is at a resonable price. i was looking at megans track series? please help

[SHIFT_*grind*]

i am building a s13 hatch for autocross and i was wondering if any one with auto cross exp. knows of a good coilover for it that is at a resonable price. i was looking at megans track series? please help

2. You should probably read the thread before posting.

Your question would be answered, and then some, if you'd take a few minutes out of your undoubtedly busy day and read the thread. There is a TON of good info in here. A lot of time, effort, and thought went into some of the posts in this thread. If you even looked at the first few posts, you'd see that a Koni/GC setup is probably the best cost-effective setup you can find.

If you want someone to just lie to you with "get sum megans their cheap and work good," this is the wrong thread.

[wickedjester]

i read most of the posts and didnt find anything especially specific for auto cross i was just looking to hear any ones say on the matter. im just kinda new to this gimme a break

[Def]

What difference is there between autocross and road course usage? You might want slightly higher spring rates to work tires harder in autox, but a "good" setup is going to be very similar on both of those applications.

[motoman6968]

tein super drifts work fine for me, and the ride is actually not bad.

[infamous240sx]

i didnt see KTS anywhere on that list...maybe you should add it.
Its in the midrange area bro.

[Silverbullet]

our school's engineering or aerospace department has a shock dyno. The idea of testing several different brand of dampeners and writing a full report on the test has crossed my mind a few times.

I've been thinking about my senior design project for next year, and perhaps i'll do something that involves the testing of a couple different shocks and the full range of settings.

[GSXRJJordan]

^^^ YESSSS! Do it!

I bet we can have some retailers and possibly members 'loan' a couple coilovers... the problem is usually you want just the damper on the shock dyno, and people aren't going to want to disassemble their coilovers (I'm guessing). Anyhow, an apples-to-apples comparison with soft, mid range, and stiff settings on a bunch of coilovers needs to be done :)

[PoorMans180SX]

our school's engineering or aerospace department has a shock dyno. The idea of testing several different brand of dampeners and writing a full report on the test has crossed my mind a few times.

I've been thinking about my senior design project for next year, and perhaps i'll do something that involves the testing of a couple different shocks and the full range of settings.

Definitely do it. Posi rep.

[iAMprojekt]

i didnt see D2 on the lower end coilover range.... you can usually get them for about $900 shipped and they outperform anything else that ive seen in the cheaper category

[Aoshi112]

So I began looking into another suspension company based in the Netherlands: www.ast-suspension.com.

Seems the founder used to work for Koni for quite a bit of time and started his own company.

I emailed AST USA because I heard Aragosta coilovers were made in Netherlands by AST suspension but had no solid evidence. Apparently Brian @ AST USA verified that with this email he sent me:

"Jason,
Single adjustable is $1750. Top mounts are optional. Fronts are $385 Rears are $230. 3 way shocks come with top mounts. Doubles have not been created for the S14, but we can probably do them. Struts and shock doubles are usually around $2650. We can use whatever spring rates you want.

Topline is AST's dealer in Japan. They didn't want to use the AST name so he came up with Aragosta."

Brian was very fast at responding to my emails and inquiries about AST coilovers and now that there is AST USA, stateside support is readily available. Sounds like a viable but pricy option.

AST Suspension might also be another way to go.

[PoorMans180SX]

^Posi rep for you.

Finally it's confirmed.

Can't wait till that upgrade!

[Def]

BMW guys like the AST setup, but for the price I think I'd lean towards 8610/8611s.

[spool_sample]

I guess Aragosta is owned by AST then? Interesting, I always thought that Aragosta was its own company.

[alkemyst]

I have a semi-decent list up at http://driftkat.com

A list of exhausts too. It's definitely not complete.

[Aoshi112]

I guess Aragosta is owned by AST then? Interesting, I always thought that Aragosta was its own company.

Well i think you read it wrong.

Topline is a dealer of AST shocks in Japan. The guys called the AST coilovers in japan, Topline Aragosta, instead of AST Coilovers because they didn't want to use the AST name. This is how I understand it from Brian's email.

[McRussellPants]

god I'd roll ASTs in an instant.

Racing Gear looks interesting too from the dyno that was posted.

[spool_sample]

Well i think you read it wrong.

Topline is a dealer of AST shocks in Japan. The guys called the AST coilovers in japan, Topline Aragosta, instead of AST Coilovers because they didn't want to use the AST name. This is how I understand it from Brian's email.

Sure, but Aragosta seems to be its own company.

www.aragosta-suspension.com (http://www.aragosta-suspension.com)

And then there's Topline.

http://www.aragosta.co.jp/

Judging from that e-mail, Aragosta is either owned by AST, or there are two different Aragostas. The former makes a lot more sense.

In any case, it doesn't matter, good shocks either way.

[Def]

god I'd roll ASTs in an instant.

Racing Gear looks interesting too from the dyno that was posted.

After checking out the numbers and looking at it more closely, they don't look that great(the Racing Gear ones).

ASTs are nice, but one thing that concerned me is it seemed like they were using similar valving/same shocks for very different applications. Not so much a problem as long as you can get things more in line with adjustments, but on single adjustables I'd be wary.

I never realized how much difference changing the bump can make always having single adjustables, but with 8611s up front 1 click either way makes a huge difference in how the car responds.

[Wiisass]

Without finding that plot again, the racing gears had the right shape, but they were way overdamped in rebound and, I think, overdamped in compression as well. So unless they were for something like a 3500+lb S13, they wouldn't work that well.

[delphis]

I have a simple question about pillow mounts, are they inter changable from coilover brand? the reason I ask is I just got a set of the tanabe sustec pro s-oc 2 and tanabe says that they are discontinuing them so they are no longer making the pillow mounts for them. Could I simply put some tein/hks upper pillow mounts on instead?

[s13.5ftw]

Kei Office is continued but I think he is making a new line called Dg5? Someone correct me if I am wrong thanks, just trying to contribute to this helpful thread.

yup i was gonna say he didnt include dg5's, and i got a review on these from formula d driver joon woo maeng, he says he likes them a lot, he said that he could feel the difference from his last coils (no idea what they were), but anyways for those people wondering about the dg5's i guess there a good buy? 2500 better be a good buy lol :D

[stupid nissan]

when people give reviews they also dont say what they have for the rest of the suspension and how it is set up etc alginment settings that makes a big difference in the way the car handles as well

[Mikey213]

The ultimate coilover thread would also explain signs and symptoms of blown, leaky, bad etc. coilovers... and also explain spring rates (comfort-full race)

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I got a set of Kei Office and the ride makes my tail bone hurt. I always feel violated but like a cheap whore I always ride it again.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The ultimate coilover thread would also explain signs and symptoms of blown, leaky, bad etc. coilovers... and also explain spring rates (comfort-full race)

Bad coilovers would be eBay specials and most definitely anything under a grand new.

Spring rates don't play as much into comfort as damping does.

[Dousan_PG]

dg5s..
should i post agian?
what the hell
i talked w/ my friends at FD who run DG5
pat, chris, joon, justin...well not about DG5s just shooting the shit but i have talked w/ them in the past before i ordered mine up. make sure no gimicks

all them absoultely love them
pat did mention on full soft he can push is car down a good amount and on full stiff nothing

forsberg did say the adj is incredible. clicks make a difference u can set it stupid soft and it is soooft. or hard and it extremely stiff.

anyways
most wont spend the money but those who do, wont be disappoint
i test mine when my car is running in 2 weeks. JD rd2!

[MrD]

Tanabe Sustec Fives feedback anyone?
Yes they do not go as low as the Sevens.

[die hardrift fan]

im lookin into ksport kontrol pro for 500 used great condition. any reviews or opinions plz? thanks

[ZX88]

im lookin into ksport kontrol pro for 500 used great condition. any reviews or opinions plz? thanks

Be careful with used k sports the valving is not the best from my experience I have them on my daily and have had no issue. but if you are going to track the car i would recommend at least stance. Megan are also another budget coil over but imo the track series with 10/8 spring rate are to stiff. just my opinion

[steve_o1989]

What about some of the higher end k-sport? Does anyone have any track experience with those?

[mmdb]

SicBastard, about my earlier post about Ohlins being designed for high speed dampening, I apologize because that statement was vague. I was speaking with a Ohlins, Motons, etc. (high end stuff) dealer in Sonoma, I forget the name, and getting feedback which suspension I should go with. My requirements were having my car to be daily drivable and competitive on the race track. Although those two requirements are unnecessarily intermingled, I wanted to go with something I can tailor to my driving style now (auto-x or occasional track days), and as I progress , eventually turn my car into a race car, I could use the same suspension without upgrading. Of course I would have to re-valve if I were to use different springs. Anyway, back to the Ohlins, from what I understood from the shop was that the high speed dampening would not be beneficial on highway roads due to the amount of pot holes and bumps. From what I have been told by Brian at AST is that high speed compression is taken into affect when the damper moves greater than 4in/sec. In retrospect, and as I was told, was that is too much rebound and compression dampening (single adjustment) to soak up the bump on the roads to be daily driven. Hope I've made sense in my slur of things.

[jsasrsr]

k sport's are horrible, although very appealing. anyways if anyone needs some s14 coil's i have a set of tein flex's that im letting go for 900 shipped!

[drift freaq]

SicBastard, about my earlier post about Ohlins being designed for high speed dampening, I apologize because that statement was vague. I was speaking with a Ohlins, Motons, etc. (high end stuff) dealer in Sonoma, I forget the name, and getting feedback which suspension I should go with. My requirements were having my car to be daily drivable and competitive on the race track. Although those two requirements are unnecessarily intermingled, I wanted to go with something I can tailor to my driving style now (auto-x or occasional track days), and as I progress , eventually turn my car into a race car, I could use the same suspension without upgrading. Of course I would have to re-valve if I were to use different springs. Anyway, back to the Ohlins, from what I understood from the shop was that the high speed dampening would not be beneficial on highway roads due to the amount of pot holes and bumps. From what I have been told by Brian at AST is that high speed compression is taken into affect when the damper moves greater than 4in/sec. In retrospect, and as I was told, was that is too much rebound and compression dampening (single adjustment) to soak up the bump on the roads to be daily driven. Hope I've made sense in my slur of things.

So to sum your post up in neat and concise words. Ohlins would not be advisable for American based cars that are seeing street duty as well as track because of their high speed damping. I.E. Ohlins are better suited to roads in Japan ( outside of Okinawa, Okinawa according to Koopa Troopa has shitty roads) which are actually a lot smoother than U.S. roads.
Hence I stay on the Koni tip with Hypercoils.

[mmdb]

So to sum your post up in neat and concise words. Ohlins would not be advisable for American based cars that are seeing street duty as well as track because of their high speed damping. I.E. Ohlins are better suited to roads in Japan ( outside of Okinawa, Okinawa according to Koopa Troopa has shitty roads) which are actually a lot smoother than U.S. roads.
Hence I stay on the Koni tip with Hypercoils.

Heh very nice. Although I wouldn't go as far as saying that they're not advisable for the open roads, as custom valving could alleviate this problem.

[Mikey213]

You.think.revalving.used.non-adjustable.JICs.would.help.a.little.comfort.wise?
I.think.they're.way.to.damn.stiff.for.DD
What.should.I.tell.JIC.exactly?
(keyboard.is.wet.spacebar.is.gone)

[SicBastard]

SicBastard, about my earlier post about Ohlins being designed for high speed dampening, I apologize because that statement was vague. I was speaking with a Ohlins, Motons, etc. (high end stuff) dealer in Sonoma, I forget the name, and getting feedback which suspension I should go with. My requirements were having my car to be daily drivable and competitive on the race track. Although those two requirements are unnecessarily intermingled, I wanted to go with something I can tailor to my driving style now (auto-x or occasional track days), and as I progress , eventually turn my car into a race car, I could use the same suspension without upgrading. Of course I would have to re-valve if I were to use different springs. Anyway, back to the Ohlins, from what I understood from the shop was that the high speed dampening would not be beneficial on highway roads due to the amount of pot holes and bumps. From what I have been told by Brian at AST is that high speed compression is taken into affect when the damper moves greater than 4in/sec. In retrospect, and as I was told, was that is too much rebound and compression dampening (single adjustment) to soak up the bump on the roads to be daily driven. Hope I've made sense in my slur of things.

Yeah, crazy high, high speed settings would be most uncomfortable/shitty on the street. I noticed in the last sport compact car (May '08) that Andy Hope was complaining about how the ohlins on the s15 weren't optimal on the choppy/off-camber section of Street of Willow. Not handling chop is likely due to a high speed setting that is too high. But at least with the ohlins (presuming the this can't be adjusted out with the knob) there are a lot of qualified peeps that I can trust to tweek the stack.

[spoolandslide]

try and scrounge up more towards $1500

[alkemyst]

Yeah, crazy high, high speed settings would be most uncomfortable/shitty on the street. I noticed in the last sport compact car (May '08) that Andy Hope was complaining about how the ohlins on the s15 weren't optimal on the choppy/off-camber section of Street of Willow. Not handling chop is likely due to a high speed setting that is too high. But at least with the ohlins (presuming the this can't be adjusted out with the knob) there are a lot of qualified peeps that I can trust to tweek the stack.

All that said...for probably 9.9/10 people those issues never come up. Don't get me wrong though, they are definitely there...just that it make no sense to pursue it unless you have just about everything else dialed in.

I am on KTS Beta's / SPL and for the $1000 I paid for them, they are pretty decent for non-competitive messing around.

If you are competitive (or have more money than god) then there is no way in hell my KTS's are going to turn a top track time versus most of the high end setups (although at a cost of 2.5+ times what I have spent).

My friend's 350Z is insane. He bought stoptechs (4/2 pistons) at I think like $4k only to track them for a bit to decide to move on to endless (6/4 pistons) at like $8k...I just wish I had some cash to turbocharge mine, he has two. :) Of course, currently he is moving this car to track only status. Just the seats alone make it difficult for most passengers to navigate.

Anyway, I have seen a lot of guys blow way too much on their coilover purchase when if they spread it out a bit they could have had a way more fun car with better DD characteristics.

Maybe I am wrong, but outside of electronic dampening there isn't much after the $1k coilover segment until you enter $2500 or better.

[yokotas13]

Aragosta
2800-3200.00

best shit ive ever driven
super glad i paid the monies for it

[yokotas13]

So to sum your post up in neat and concise words. Ohlins would not be advisable for American based cars that are seeing street duty as well as track because of their high speed damping. I.E. Ohlins are better suited to roads in Japan ( outside of Okinawa, Okinawa according to Koopa Troopa has shitty roads) which are actually a lot smoother than U.S. roads.
Hence I stay on the Koni tip with Hypercoils.

hahaha

thats funny.
thats the dumbest shit i ever heard man.
our roads suck in tokyo

only expressways are nice

[alkemyst]

hahaha

thats funny.
thats the dumbest shit i ever heard man.
our roads suck in tokyo

only expressways are nice

I re-read that a few times myself. Some areas in tokyo are great though, just like the US, Canada, Germany, etc...and then there are parts that just suck like everywhere. I was working in Shreveport a while and those roads are terrible about 90% of the time. People I have met that have come down to S. Florida have commented how nice our roads are (when they are not under construction).

[SicBastard]

All that said...for probably 9.9/10 people those issues never come up. Don't get me wrong though, they are definitely there...just that it make no sense to pursue it unless you have just about everything else dialed in.

Maybe I am wrong, but outside of electronic dampening there isn't much after the $1k coilover segment until you enter $2500 or better.

I couldn't agree more. 9.9/10 people wouldn't know a suspension "tweak" if it bit them on tha ass The good stuff is for those who truely need the precesion, where a "tweak" will matter. For a more normal car (like a junkyard miata I'm considering getting for the street this summer) I'm all about koni yellows. For the street, twin tubes actually have some advantages. And all you have to do is drive in a car equipped with them once to know what I'm talking about. For something under $1000, wow! And given SPL's reputation, I doubt the KTS are any less wow.

[TalonDG]

Hey gang, 2 things:

1. I'm in the process of adding a web-based suspension dynamics worksheet to the Autocross to Win site - it's currently incomplete and ugly, but it'll be done in the next couple of days.

2. No matter what shock you buy, it had better come with a dyno plot - not a representative plot; a plot for THAT VERY SHOCK. No dyno plot = shitty vendor.

The very first question for any vendor is "will you provide dyno plots for my shocks?" and if the answer is "no" then shop someplace else.

If the answer is "yes, but that'll add cost and time to your order", that is acceptable, but weak. I dynoed every single shock I sold and provided the plots free of charge. If they were adjustables, I matched them left to right too.

Enjoy!

DGs Autocross Secrets aka Autocross to Win (http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html)

DG

[SicBastard]

DG,

That calculator is sick! I was looking for something a little more detailed to help me decide where to go with spring rates. A few questions though.

1. I don't think anyone actually knows where the roll center is on the rear of the 240 (a look up table dependent on ride height would be awesome)
2. nor the CG height
3. It sounds simple enough, but what exaxctly is roll bar arm height?
4. Where do we find tire spring rates?
5. Should the design frequency be a dependent variable (not an input)?
6. Would it be possible to change the "design damping ratio" to just "damping coefficient", it looks like all of the other variables are already an input.

Just humble questions/suggestions! The work that went into that is truely impressive. That coupled with the fact that you are sharing it with the community free of charge! Kudos.

[TalonDG]

DG,

That calculator is sick! I was looking for something a little more detailed to help me decide where to go with spring rates.

There's a lot more coming in the next couple of days... this has been on my plate for a while and I need to get it done before my little trip to south central asia... just in case.

A few questions though.

1. I don't think anyone actually knows where the roll center is on the rear of the 240 (a look up table dependent on ride height would be awesome)

Neither do I - thus Far North Racing - Suspension Modeling Project (http://farnorthracing.com/modeling.html)

Call the good Mr Mitchell and get WinGeo or Mr Rouelle and get his new dynamics package and have at 'er.

WinGeo has its quirks, but it has a really simple data entry model that makes measuring pretty straight forward and the results are very good.

The drop-down box is a good idea, and I considered it, but the problem is vetting the data. I know the "example car" data is rock solid, because I measured it 3 different ways and cross-referenced them to sanity check each method. I have no way to tell if the guy providing the data for any given car was as thorough, or just pulled it out of his rectum.

The alternative is people paying me to measure and model cars... and that's a non-starter, at least for the next 8 months....

2. nor the CG height

Ditto. You're going to have to measure it.

The plan is to describe how to do that on the site - eventually. There are books out there that describe methods. The Street Modified Home Page- Engineering Resources (http://streetmodified.org/books.html)

3. It sounds simple enough, but what exaxctly is roll bar arm height?

It's the offset from the axis of rotation of the end link of the bar, for bars whose arms are not at right angles to the bar.

The plan is to have a graphic that describes each of those variables - to remind myself too.

4. Where do we find tire spring rates?

Measure them. This can be very instructive... tire spring rates do some funky things.

5. Should the design frequency be a dependent variable (not an input)?

Nope. The natural frequency you want is a "magic number" in that there's really no way to derive the ideal value. Rule of thumb is somewhere between 1.8 and 2.5 for the front, and the rear a tenth or two higher.

What works best? Ask the stopwatch, on the surface you're running on, in the conditions at the time.

The nice thing about NF is it provides a car-independant measure of "stiffness". A 96 Mustang with a 1600 lb front spring is softer than a 97 Talon with a 1000 lb front spring - but two cars with a front NF of 2.2 Hz are exactly as stiff as each other.

It also gives an idea of magnitude. If your NF with your current springs is 2.2, you're in the ballpark. If it is 4.6.... perhaps you want to rethink your springs. Hell, 2.7 I think is too stiff.... but only the stopwatch knows for sure.

6. Would it be possible to change the "design damping ratio" to just "damping coefficient", it looks like all of the other variables are already an input.

Why such fancy words? It's supposed to be American-friendly :mrmeph:

Just humble questions/suggestions! The work that went into that is truely impressive. That coupled with the fact that you are sharing it with the community free of charge! Kudos.

Feedback is always appreciated. Getting this info out of my noodle and onto the site is an iterative process.

As far as "free of charge" goes... *shrug* "Knowledge shared is knowledge squared" There are so many people making money of racers' ignorence that I kinda owe it to people to get the truth out there.

But remember - clicking on ads helps offset the bandwidth charges.

DG

[TalonDG]

Roll resistance and the start of weight transfer is up.

I'll finish weight transfer after supper.

Does anyone know of a decent Javascript graphing library?

DG

[TalonDG]

Weight transfer done.

Damping next.

DG

[TalonDG]

Damping is now done. This graphs a plot of what your shocks should look like on the dyno.

All that's left to do is to provide data entry for your own dyno plots (for comparison purposes) and a bunch of layout cleanup.

Trust me, you're going to want to se this. :)

DG

[Def]

Damping is now done. This graphs a plot of what your shocks should look like on the dyno.

All that's left to do is to provide data entry for your own dyno plots (for comparison purposes) and a bunch of layout cleanup.

Trust me, you're going to want to se this. :)

DG

TalonDG,

I agree that Torrington bearings are awesome for reducing torsional stress in a spring as it "does its thing." But what is your take on the inevitable situation of the front strut housing turning independently of the front strut/shock piston/rod with the greatly reduced friction due to the Torrington bearing? Big deal or not?

[TalonDG]

I'm not sure I follow.

The Torrington sits between the spring and the spring perch. It serves to isolate the spring perch from the twisting force a coil spring exerts when it is compressed, and as a side effect, makes adjusting ride height much easier because the perch (on a coilover) no longer jams against the spring.

But I don't see where the concern is about the strut housing twisting....

The strut housing is firmly fixed to the wheel bearing carrier, and can only twist in steer. The shaft is fixed to the upper bearing and, depending on the design of the upper mount, is either free to rotate via a spherical bearing (which is usually pretty stiff) or via some other arrangement (like a bicycle steering headset)

Reverse this for an inverted strut.

The only time you should see twisting motion relative the piston and shock housing is if the friction at the piston seal and shaft seal are less than the friction in steer at the upper mount - and that is totally independant of the spring seat Torrington(s).

I'd want my struts to pivot at the upper mount... but I don't see a real problem if the pivot happens inside the shock - steer movements are relatively infrequent.

Or am I missing your objection?

DG

[SicBastard]

5. Should the design frequency be a dependent variable (not an input)?
6. Would it be possible to change the "design damping ratio" to just "damping coefficient", it looks like all of the other variables are already an input.

DG,

What I meant was that the variables needed to calculate both design frequncy and damping coeffient are already inputs in the calculator, and having them as inputs themselves seems redundent. Plus having the calculator calculate both design frequncy and damping coeffient would be a nice bonus/time saver.

For example:
Design/Suspension Frequency is dependent upon corner weights, spring rates, and motion ratio. All three of which are already inputs in the table.

And with damping ratio, again, you already have corner weights and spring rates as inputs (just missing the damping coefficient).


For a damped harmonic oscillator with mass m, damping coefficient c, and spring constant k, the damping ratio is
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/2/c/c2cbecf38563796486664b8214a02d88.png
With the damping coefficient, It's the damping ratio that is actually helpful to know. And since the the spring constant (k) and corner weights (m) are already inputs in the calculator, I thought it might make sense to only ask for the damping coefficient (c) as an input rather than the ratio (zeta), so that the calculator gives us the damping ratio as a calculated output (instead of it being an input).

Again, thanx for all the hard work and hosting! This should come in handy for a lot of people.

-=DRU=-

[Def]

The only time you should see twisting motion relative the piston and shock housing is if the friction at the piston seal and shaft seal are less than the friction in steer at the upper mount - and that is totally independant of the spring seat Torrington(s).

I'd want my struts to pivot at the upper mount... but I don't see a real problem if the pivot happens inside the shock - steer movements are relatively infrequent.

Or am I missing your objection?

DG

Well that's the thing, adding a Torrington bearing will allow the spring to be uncoupled from the spring perch(which is the point). And spherical bearings don't like to be rotated while subjected to an axial load, so the friction via the piston/shaft to strut interface will always be lower. This uncoupling is what allows the strut shaft to rotate relative to the strut body when using a Torrington spring.

I get the premise behind them(I have a set on my car right now), just wondering if you've seen any excessive wear on the strut due to this rotation.

I'd ideally like the strut and shaft to rotate together, but with a Torrington bearing in the mix it doesn't seem possible, or at least not very easy.

[TalonDG]

What I meant was that the variables needed to calculate both design frequncy and damping coeffient are already inputs in the calculator, and having them as inputs themselves seems redundent.

Oh, you're missing how it works.

"Design Frequency" is just for picking the ideal spring rates.

The calculator shows the current frequency with the current springs as well, for comparison purposes.

The damping ratio lets you play with shocks based on your current springs. To get "ideal" damping with "ideal" springs, copy the "ideal" springs into the current spring rate slot.

The natural frequency you want and the damping ratio you want are independant variables, not dependants.

And spherical bearings don't like to be rotated while subjected to an axial load, so the friction via the piston/shaft to strut interface will always be lower.

You can help this by using an upper mount design that separates the steering motion from the pivot motion - the OEM EVO does this (although it uses a rubber bushing for pivot, it has a ball bearing race for steer)

I've never seen any increased wear myself.

DG

[SicBastard]

...To get "ideal" damping with "ideal" springs, copy the "ideal" springs into the current spring rate slot...

Thanx, I see what you mean.

[TalonDG]

Now with tooltips! (hover the mouse over the inputs)

DG

[h2v7]

thread bump.

i want to buy some coilovers

have $1000 to spend and not a dollar more, if i dont have to...

what should i get?

looking at megans but someone help me out here...

[shalezzz]

thread bump.

i want to buy some coilovers

have $1000 to spend and not a dollar more, if i dont have to...

what should i get?

looking at megans but someone help me out here...

not to reply on an old thread but i have megan tracks, i have them maxed out and theyre not low enough for me, theyre bouncy at times, i wish i woulda bought pbm's, 1200 ish shipped, i think its worth the 200 for the extra height adjustability and quality( so i hear) but if your not looking to slam it theyre not bad,the streets prolly arent as bad with bounce. if youre concerned about height if you go to my posts you can see how it looks, hope that helps

[h2v7]

it does thanks.

ima look into the pbms.

i was REALLY trying to only spend a 1000, but i dont want to be mad down the line i didnt wait and get something better.

i was just reading up on those 300$ ebay coilovers and lmfao

[Wake]

you can get both apexi exv and ksports for 899 here on this very site.


but go with whatever is most popular, just like everyone else.

[Future240]

Damn this is an old thread, but it seems to have some good info.

it does thanks.

ima look into the pbms.

i was REALLY trying to only spend a 1000, but i dont want to be mad down the line i didnt wait and get something better.

i was just reading up on those 300$ ebay coilovers and lmfao

You should look into Fortune Autos as well.
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/282893-product-review-fortune-auto-500-series-coilovers.html

[shalezzz]

it does thanks.

ima look into the pbms.

i was REALLY trying to only spend a 1000, but i dont want to be mad down the line i didnt wait and get something better.

i was just reading up on those 300$ ebay coilovers and lmfao
lol i basically bought ebay coilovers and returned them as soon as i opened the box, than bought the tracks from fr that day cause i was pissed and they were on sale, heard about pbms like 2 weeks later, but the pics i have are the fronts with both collars removed. and rears all the way down.

[Jonathong]

anyone have experience with emusa (e motor) coilovers? please pm or reply here with your opinions on them, I hear alot mixed reviews and majority of the people I asked liked em so far. Especially for the price.

[2stepGoesPowPow]

thread bump!

I'm looking for coil overs willing to spend around $1,200.. i think I'm between Tein super street or some Stance coil overs, a lot of people seem to like stance.

[dtfdanyo]

BC racing coilovers are nice too!

[LockOn!]

thread bump!

I'm looking for coil overs willing to spend around $1,200.. i think I'm between Tein super street or some Stance coil overs, a lot of people seem to like stance.

For that much try the Fortune Auto 500s, or PBM. Not that they are really any better than your other choices, but the fact that they are rebuildable / you can source replacement parts in the US is a big plus.

I think you can get replacement Stance stuff too, just a little harder to find.

[2stepGoesPowPow]

stance is in the us and I'm pretty sure they are rebuildable & now I'm pretty set on them i did more research since my last post, theres a lot of good reviews.

[jubee]

dam why cant kei office be rebuilt sucks so bad =/

[2stepGoesPowPow]

yeahhhhh way back when i first got my s13 i got godspeed coils i haven't even put on yet so I'm just getting a new set in mind so ill be ready when my godspeed's premature failure occurs :D

[trevor34]

I just recently purchased PBM Pro and love them on the softest setting they feel amazing and when your ready to put them to the test you can crank them up.

[epik1]

Dunno if it's been said, but DG5 should be on this list. I didn't see HSD on there either. I think HSD will be important to be in here, it's a mid-range and I've heard nothing but great things about them.

[No Face]

Trying to decide what to do in terms of suspension so as to ressurect this old thread, what is needed to put these koni yellows on my s13?

Koni North America - ITT -1992 Nissan 240SX Catalog Search (http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=1992&mak_id=32&mod_id=472&submit.x=46&submit.y=13&submit=Search)

[Turbo Nismo]

I bought Fuction & Form F2 coils. I installed them, but haven't tried them yet.

[ManoNegra]

Trying to decide what to do in terms of suspension so as to ressurect this old thread, what is needed to put these koni yellows on my s13?

Koni North America - ITT -1992 Nissan 240SX Catalog Search (http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=1992&mak_id=32&mod_id=472&submit.x=46&submit.y=13&submit=Search)

open up a browser window
go to Google.com
type "s13 koni yellow install" into the search window
let the magic happen

[SlideOrDie831]

thread bump!

I'm looking for coil overs willing to spend around $1,200.. i think I'm between Tein super street or some Stance coil overs, a lot of people seem to like stance.

super streets are crap. teins are overpriced.

stance is great for the price.

look into fortune auto coils.

[Frankz91]

Looking to get Coilovers for my 240
Wil NOT be DRIFTING MY CAR @ ALL will be used JUST AS A DAILY DRIVER 4 SCHOOL &LOOKS

[zooopreme]

Looking to get Coilovers for my 240
Wil NOT be DRIFTING MY CAR @ ALL will be used JUST AS A DAILY DRIVER 4 SCHOOL &LOOKS

Ebay.

msglngth

[Frankz91]

Has to be a good brand will not buy ebay coils

[shalezzz]

Looking to get Coilovers for my 240
Wil NOT be DRIFTING MY CAR @ ALL will be used JUST AS A DAILY DRIVER 4 SCHOOL &LOOKS

Get stance for a dd

[uraznfriend]

Why spenda grand on coilovers that wont see track time, go megans or godspeed theyll go low asumming thats what youre going for

[sweeper240]

I don't plan on jumping my car, I do live in southern california. I can get front/rear strut bars if that is ideal and recommended. I can get front/rear sway bars later at some undetermined point in time but its unclear if the above advice is actually referring to Strut (doesn't the 240sx already have some form of sway bar?)

Ground Control kit for s13 240sx vs Tein Monoflex?
Tein Flex kit (which he prefers) - the springs are connected to everything (captive design).

I thought the GC kit was supposed to be really good. But it seems like in any situation where the suspension becomes unloaded the springs will then slam down on re-compression.

Is the Tein Monoflex kit considered unequal/inferior/or better than Ground Control's s13 kit? Why?
Will an uncaptive setup cause strange or loud sounds while driving on the street?
Will the supposed sounds that might happen be frequent or only occasional? Will these supposed sounds be loud or ignorable?
Will an uncaptive setup cause a problem on bumpy or uneven roads? dirt?
Is the transition from unloaded to loaded in an uncaptive setup safe or can the transition cause stability problems?

[Kingbaby]

Good read!

[sliverrr]

what do you guys think of CST (Circuit Spec Tune) Coilover? Need your opinions and suggestions? Im looking for a coilover that will be good for drifting and daily driving as well.

[SlideOrDie831]

what do you guys think of CST (Circuit Spec Tune) Coilover? Need your opinions and suggestions? Im looking for a coilover that will be good for drifting and daily driving as well.

FA 500's. they can be rebuilt in the states as well. tanabe is the one who distributes CST in the states. not sure if they can rebuild them.

[rwtf]

Has any tried the new isis hr pros?

I'm tied between the Isis, Stance GR+, or the pbm comp pros....

looking for something around 1200$

Daily, light track use.

[Future240]

^I would also consider the fortune auto 500 series as well.

[rwtf]

^I would also consider the fortune auto 500 series as well.

hmmm yeah, Ive heard alot about those, I'm really leaning towards the Isis, ive been hearing nothing but good things about them for 800 seems like you cant beat the price.

[90240sx07]

love my ksport kontrol pro's $869 shipped from Thmotorsports good ride can go really low and reasonable price

[xoxide]

hmmm yeah, Ive heard alot about those, I'm really leaning towards the Isis, ive been hearing nothing but good things about them for 800 seems like you cant beat the price. spend the extra and get fortunes. You will not be disappointed.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Trying to decide what to do in terms of suspension so as to ressurect this old thread, what is needed to put these koni yellows on my s13?

Koni North America - ITT -1992 Nissan 240SX Catalog Search (http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=1992&mak_id=32&mod_id=472&submit.x=46&submit.y=13&submit=Search)

Those are just shock/strut replacements...If you have to ask what do you need to put them in your car, then my answer is a mechanic.

[fliprayzin240sx]

what do you guys think of CST (Circuit Spec Tune) Coilover? Need your opinions and suggestions? Im looking for a coilover that will be good for drifting and daily driving as well.

CST? As in CST Boyz?

[rpierce]

hmmm yeah, Ive heard alot about those, I'm really leaning towards the Isis, ive been hearing nothing but good things about them for 800 seems like you cant beat the price.

Well if you look at pictures the 32 way isis are IDENTICAL to godspeed mono-rs and J2 ebay coilovers. 100% the same just painted different colors, also the other 2 are $100 cheaper, but they're all sub par compared to stance or fortune auto.


J2
http://www.dnamotoring.com/dsg/listing_images/J2-CO-012-D.jpg

Godspeed mono-rs
http://www.godspeedproject.com/image/cache/data/suspension/s14mono_5-650x436.jpg

Isis HR Pro
http://aceupmotorsports.com/product_images/q/932/ISISProHR__74777_zoom__50181_zoom.jpg[/QUOTE]

[EvilRB]

All those coilovers are made by this company in Taiwan

Taiwan Bor-Chuann= BC-racing = (http://www.bcec.com.tw/profile/profile.html)

You would be surprised how many companies they produce for...

[rwtf]

hmmm, so stance, fortune or Pbm..... hmm.... are the fortune 510 worth the extra $$?

[denian_cellphone]

ive heard so many great things about fortune. i was very close to getting them, but went with pbm since they have their shop here in san diego.

hmmm, so stance, fortune or Pbm..... hmm.... are the fortune 510 worth the extra $$?

i heard they are when used with the swift spring upgrade.

[josh_schul]

Question about Swift Spring Upgrades... Has anyone tried these out on a a bc/ff/d2/megan type coilover? I currently have FF Type 2 coilovers 8k front 6k rear on my s14... but they are a little bit bouncy/soft, and i have the dampening rock hard. I was thinking about possibly switching to Swift Springs with a higher spring rate 10k front 8k rear.

[Niterdr]

i would like peace of mind and go with BC. heard nothing but great things about them.

[josh_schul]

Well i see that people that use these springs on bc/megan/ff all seem to think that the springs help tremendously. I bought a set yesterday so ill let ya know when the cars all back together.

[Memberofthe600hpkaclub]

Does anyone know of a short spring I can use for my tein ss rear coils trying to get a spring 6" or shorter

[zooopreme]

Does anyone know of a short spring I can use for my tein ss rear coils trying to get a spring 6" or shorter

Any aftermarket spring company would have a set that you need.

But just out of curiosity, are you looking to make your car lower by shortening the spring? I would strongly suggest to not do so as the dampers are made for a specific spring length. With that said, you could get them revalved and adjusted to the new spring length.

And to answer your question, the only aftermarket spring company that I would go with is Swift.

[Memberofthe600hpkaclub]

hmmm thx i suppose ill have to look into that...appreciate it!

[NoPistons!]

I'm a big fan of swift springs. Billstein makes an inverted damper which is beefy as hell. Def want to try retrofiting those to fit in a 240sx one of these days. I haven't cut my tubes yet. Maybe if i'm bored next week i'll do that. Building these for my janky grassroots style grip/drift/race car and putting my drop engineering ones on a dd i dont have yet. Lol. Great thread. ALOT of info in here. Subbed!

[juvi22003]

Went through all 8 pages and to be honest didn't find a lot of reviews it was mainly about prices. I just picked a 240sx last week and i'm looking for some coils just for daily, i'm not cheap but don't want to spend a lot like i had invested in my 07 IS or my current 2014 IS as i said the car is going to be my daily.....so far these 3 came to mind JSK, Godspeed and Blackworks....

[Scope240sx]

Went through all 8 pages and to be honest didn't find a lot of reviews it was mainly about prices. I just picked a 240sx last week and i'm looking for some coils just for daily, i'm not cheap but don't want to spend a lot like i had invested in my 07 IS or my current 2014 IS as i said the car is going to be my daily.....so far these 3 came to mind JSK, Godspeed and Blackworks....

honestly check out DMAX super streets.. you can pick them up for $700 plus shipping and they are solid, especially for the description you used.
with appropriate ride height, and soft damper settings, going over the crap roads in socal arent bad at all.

when aggressively lowered with stiff damper settings they can be a bit
porpoise-y for daily ( i just made up that word). I.E. when you hit a bump and let off throttle your car will slightly rock.

Not sure if the guys with the 2k coil overs experience the porpoise you can get from being aggressively lowered, would love someone with more experience with coils to chime in.

anyway GL man.

[juvi22003]

honestly check out DMAX super streets.. you can pick them up for $700 plus shipping and they are solid, especially for the description you used.
with appropriate ride height, and soft damper settings, going over the crap roads in socal arent bad at all.

when aggressively lowered with stiff damper settings they can be a bit
porpoise-y for daily ( i just made up that word). I.E. when you hit a bump and let off throttle your car will slightly rock.

Not sure if the guys with the 2k coil overs experience the porpoise you can get from being aggressively lowered, would love someone with more experience with coils to chime in.

anyway GL man.

Thanks for your help, actually don't think i will be getting any of those again think i'll just spend the extra and get something good. I mean i know what the good stuff are i just prefer spending the big bucks on my IS lol

[Chopsuey]

I'm still waiting on an honest review on fortune 510's with swifts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Colorado S14]

Question about Swift Spring Upgrades... Has anyone tried these out on a a bc/ff/d2/megan type coilover? I currently have FF Type 2 coilovers 8k front 6k rear on my s14... but they are a little bit bouncy/soft, and i have the dampening rock hard. I was thinking about possibly switching to Swift Springs with a higher spring rate 10k front 8k rear.

That will just make you more bouncy, the reason you are bouncing all over is that your damper cant control the current spring rate. I bet you would like the car more if you went with a softer not stiffer spring. A 10k spring is only good for a car with massive grip on a smooth track. I would try a 6k/4k.