Another Cheap FR Sports Car? Nissan joins the fray

[ZilviaBot]

Filed under: Sports/GTs (http://www.autoblog.com/category/sports/), Japan (http://www.autoblog.com/category/japan/), Nissan (http://www.autoblog.com/category/nissan/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/08/silvia-copy.jpg
Japan's top two auto makers have a long and sordid history of ripping off each other's successful designs. No sooner had the Nissan Cube (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/24/another-report-nissan-bringing-over-cube-in-2008/) become a run away success in its home market than Toyota came up with the similarly boxy bB (Scion xB). Many years earlier, after the Toyota HiLux Surf (4Runner) proved a hit with, well, surfers, Nissan restyled their Terrano with nigh on identical lines, hoping to ride on the coattails of the Toyota. And let's not get in to the Supra vs. Z and Celica vs. Skyline wars.



Now, just weeks after confirming that Toyota does indeed have a successor to the lauded AE86 (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/01/rumoured-new-ae86-more-details/) in the pipeline, Best Car magazine claims to have evidence that Nissan has got a team working on building a new Silvia. Like the final 2002 S15 Spec R Silvia the new car is reckoned to be powered by a turbocharged two-liter good for 247 HP, but will just be 10 kgs heavier at one and a quarter metric tons (2450lbs).



The new range should sell for between 2.5 and 2.8 million Yen ($21,000 - $23,700), but not until 2010. Best Car's scoop ties in nicely with photographs of a shortened Z (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/12/spy-shots-nissans-affordable-rwd-sports-car/), most likely a mule testing a new, smaller FR drive train, taken at the ring earlier in the summer. If the new Silvia is indeed to be based on a modified Z/Skyline LM platform, expect a similar wheelbase of 8' 6", but smaller overall dimensions, around 14' 4" long by 5' 8" wide.
Chances of Nissan bringing a concept car, possibly derived from the URGE (http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/09/nissan-urge-satisfies-at-detroit/) shown in Detroit last year, to October's Tokyo Motor Show? 60-percet according to the magazine.
[Source: Best Car]




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[SiI40sx]

First one to post in the new section!! WOOT!!

[exitspeed]

This section is taking away from my established RWD thread. REPOST!

#/f//showthread.php?t=127041&page=9

Lock. ;)

[West]

Curse you! You beat me to the news! Granted I had to setup the feed and and all that stuff.

[exitspeed]

That's cause I'm top of this stuff like a prostitute on a Sat night. ;)

[West]

I will agree, you posted that news within 3 minutes of it being released!

[exitspeed]

I try to keep threads going like that. I know if I don't like seeing multiple threads of the same thing posted I'm sure you don't.

[turtle m3th]

The roof line looks like a 1st gen eclipse, the ass looks like a civic, and the heads look kind of like that from a celica. The worst of all worlds??? WTF is going on?! Thank god these are only concept photos, haha...

[drift freaq]

I saw that pic in a Japanese mag two years ago, this is old news.

woohoo 6500 posts. LOL

[k's_silvia2.0]

First one to post in the new section!! WOOT!!

What thats cool.
Firts to post ftw.

[West]

The picture is old, yes. However the news might be legit. Only time will tell.

[MrChow]

that new hach is going to how much?? Nuts. Can't wait for the FR cars.

Like the new section. I love keeping out with the FRnews.

[exitspeed]

The picture is old, yes. However the news might be legit. Only time will tell.

The news is new. People can deny that these cars are coming, but it's true. There are a half dozen cars that have been confirmed that the manufactures are working on in the RWD coupe segment.

[bardabe]

yes im digging the new hatch too. ha ha =) makes me wanna sell my coupe and make myself a little Type X. ohhhhhhhhh yeah *drool*

[West]

Im just stoked as all hell to see some buzz around affordable RWD cars these days. It will give me a nice option between the Fuji/Toyota or this new Nissan, dont think Id buy the Hyundai tho will be interesting.

[bamaboy]

i'll be in line to buy one of these. it should complement the Z nicely if I even have it by then.

[fliprayzin240sx]

they build a 247 HP, rwd car that weights less than 2500lbs for less than $25k, they got me sold!!!

[kouki_s14]

but will just be 10 kgs heavier at one and a quarter metric tons (2450lbs)

they screwed up the conversion 1.25 metric tons = 1250kg = 2756lbs which is still pretty light but its not under 2500lbs

whoever did that seemed to have mixed up US tons(2000lbs) and metric tons(1000kg)

[cmcdougle]

2400 lbs would be wayy light. If they make a coup version, I'm buying one. No question.

[Farzam]

I want something less super futuristic.

They should just remake an S15 :)

[bigOdom1]

i posted it first in the premie chat but got no responses (#/f/showpost.php?p=1499128&postcount=11344)

[irax]

that car looks nasty

[drift freaq]

^^^^^ I tend to agree, something that looks along the lines of the Altima coupe would be better. Given these choices I would take a 350z any day of the week instead.

[SiI40sx]

For being a prototype I love it. It has massive potential. The bodystyle looks good to me so far. They just need to fix the rear and rooflines a little.

[h23]

It IS just a concept car so if it goes into production it will be toned down quite a bit. And if it is going to keep the silvia name, it would probably be more based off the s15, than that ugly thing up top.

[bboyt3nsk]

I must say...I probably get rid of the miata for one of these 2 cars for sure!

Id also like to say im glad that toyota wised up and remembered theres a whole bunch of people who like sports cars!

[Baka Sama]

Curse you! You beat me to the news! Granted I had to setup the feed and and all that stuff.

Actually I was the first to say something about the new silvia on here with pics... So hurray for me! :fawkd:

Post 700!

[drift freaq]

It IS just a concept car so if it goes into production it will be toned down quite a bit. And if it is going to keep the silvia name, it would probably be more based off the s15, than that ugly thing up top.

You would hope. Though you fail to realize that the S chassis series is dead. The new Silvia will be based off a current modern chassis series that Nissan builds now. The S chassis series is old tech. Yup face it our cars chassis's are no longer modern in the car world. In fact though its heavier the current Z chassis is a pretty damn amazing chassis. It handles like a chassis 600-700lbs lighter than it is. This is in part due to the amazing stiffness of it.
This is why a new Silvia would most likely be based off a shortened version of the same chassis series.

[irax]

the new silvia is based off the 350z since thats called Fairlady
I think this new ugly Zilvia should be called Ladyboy....

[Neejay]

As long as it isn't TOO futuristic, I'd be down.

Might even have to put getting a rex on hold :)

[mrmephistopheles]

I think this new ugly Zilvia should be called Ladyboy....

You'd want one for yourself then, huh? :keke:

You would hope. Though you fail to realize that the S chassis series is dead. The new Silvia will be based off a current modern chassis series that Nissan builds now.

Yes and no.
Calling the S-chassis 'dead' isn't necessarily accurate - they can always revive the chassis name.
Sure, the S13 and S14/15 chassis designs are obsolete, but that doesn't mean the S-chassis hasn't continually done that since the original Silvia, onward to the S110, S12, and on...

I welcome a newly-designed S-chassis, even if it's a reworked Z chassis. It's still the FM platform, which falls in line with Nissan's business plan that's been going for years now.

I've claimed for years that I plan to NEVER buy a new car, simply because it's a poor economical decision... but a car like they're describing may get me to change that plan.

[drift freaq]

You'd want one for yourself then, huh? :keke:



Yes and no.
Calling the S-chassis 'dead' isn't necessarily accurate - they can always revive the chassis name.
Sure, the S13 and S14/15 chassis designs are obsolete, but that doesn't mean the S-chassis hasn't continually done that since the original Silvia, onward to the S110, S12, and on...

I welcome a newly-designed S-chassis, even if it's a reworked Z chassis. It's still the FM platform, which falls in line with Nissan's business plan that's been going for years now.

I've claimed for years that I plan to NEVER buy a new car, simply because it's a poor economical decision... but a car like they're describing may get me to change that plan.

Well while it will be named Silvia I do not think it will have a S designation. In the past when Nissan has changed the essential chassis it has lost the chassis series designation while retaining the namesake of the car. To give you a classic example of what I am talking about look no further than the Z aka Fairlady. The Z32 and Z33 are in no way related to the S30 chassis series that did run up into the 80's but was killed at the end of that decade. I.E.the s series chassis variation that was the Z was ended though the S series chassis that was the Silvia went on). Yes the Silvia chassis designation ran for an extremely long time but that was due in part to the fact that the chassis series itself was ahead of times when it was first concepted in the early sixties. The Fairlady was also in fact derived off that chassis series as well.
Though Nissan has completely come up with new chassis designations for all their cars do not doubt it will be the same with the New Silvia.
That said I welcome the reintroduction of a Silvia as I feel its a market segment Nissan should not ignore. You may have misconstrued my setiments about this. Its not that I do not welcome this its that given above stated facts Nissan would not make a S16. Its also that I feel the current projected look does nothing for me taste wise,again which is why I stated that the Z has a much stronger pull on me.

[EchoOfSilence]

I like it

just don't call it a silvia :)

[exitspeed]

What's being missed in this thread (that was already posted in the established (#/f//showthread.php?t=127041) thread discussing this) is that that car is not an accurate representation of what the car will look like. Nissan has said the car will take cues from the Urge concept.

This is a better look at what the new car will be. It's 100x better looking then that other POS.

http://www.7tune.com/newtune/justin/urge/urge.jpg

Gawd, I'd love a two tone.

[DOOK]

It looks a lot like the 350Z, hopefully it's a little more affordable, like in the low to mid 20s like they are saying would be nice. They sticking with an SR or what? It said turbo 4 cylinder

[exitspeed]

I don't think the SR. Infact I doubt we'll see a turbo on this side of the pond. Who knows. I really do think it'll be affordable though.

I just thought of something. I wonder once all these cars come out what kind of effect they will have on the Eclipses, Solaras, of the world. Maybe nothing, but dare I say...Starion?

[irax]

if its a turbo 4, i think it might be the MR20DET thats in the new sentra.

[drift freaq]

if its a turbo 4, i think it might be the MR20DET thats in the new sentra.

in fact your on target here, the MR and the QR where the two engines listed in the speculative ad Nissan released in Japanese mags two years ago. As far as the above picture goes its in the right direction on looking better but those rear flares are just butt ugly and give it a Chrysler Crossfire look :ugh:

[Dutchmalmiss]

Man I hope it's going to be a little bigger than that red/black concept picture. Looks like a 2-seater, although all previous Silvias weren't very roomy in the back anyways. And from the looks of the top of the a-pillar, it might come with a retractable hardtop. Front, with the flares pronounced like that, reminds me of the current Miata. The rear glass lines reminds me of the RX-8. If there was a profile shot of it, i bet it'd look like the current SLK. But hey, the early concept GT-R looked like shit, let's hope this is another early concept haha

[exitspeed]

Man I hope it's going to be a little bigger than that red/black concept picture. Looks like a 2-seater, although all previous Silvias weren't very roomy in the back anyways.

Concepts almost always have lower roofs and somewhat unrealistic proportions.

[pablo180]

Summary:

Under new ownership, Dodge could now be giving the Demon concept the green light

RWD, 2600lbs, 2.4L 172hp/165tq with the possible option of the SRT-4 300 hp engine.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/dodge-demon-concept-2009-2010.html


Another contender in the market is always a good thing.

[savannaae]

If Nissan comes through with the 2500 LB, 250 HP turbo 4, 21-23k dollar deal, I'll be pre-ordering one.

[irax]

no it wont be 250hp, because thats close to the z33 teritor, especially since its alot lighter.

that will never happen

most likely it will be around 200crank hp turbo 4

[irax]

in fact your on target here, the MR and the QR where the two engines listed in the speculative ad Nissan released in Japanese mags two years ago. As far as the above picture goes its in the right direction on looking better but those rear flares are just butt ugly and give it a Chrysler Crossfire look :ugh:

i would of done a QR25DE motor swap if it wasnt such a mess.

unless they re-design the QR to be a 2.0 turbo, and make it less crappy.

if there are motor options like they did with the old school 200sx,
it might have both. A 2.0 or 2.2 turbo,and a 2.5 NA

having a NA option helps nissan with price points.

if they do to the Silvia like they did to the sentra it probably might have 3 different engines.
a bottem price 1.6ltr being cheaper than a corolla
a midrange 2.5 or maybe a 2.2 being more expensive than the 240's
or the topend 2.0 turbo being probably 6 or 7k less than a bottom end 350z

[atom]

MR is eventually supposed to phase out the QR engine so if it were any engine it would probably be the MR. I never liked the QR anyways, so many little problems. MR20DET in the Renault Megane RS does 225 crank HP..........

[SochBAT]

LOL. S16, remember?

A WHILE ago, someone posted that pic up, vouching for it being the next S-chassis.

It'd be damn awesome to get it, tone it down a bit, go with smooth and subtle lines, and it'd a selling machine.

IT LITERALLY PRINTS MONEY!

[irax]

everyone would like to see another s15 silvia
i would love to see something that is MORE like the s15 silvia and LESS like a z33

[reccakun08]

the dodge sorta reminds me of s2k headlights.

[exitspeed]

The designer of the Demon is really pushing to get the car made. There talking about a $15k price tag. Not too bad. I'd love to see Nissan compete with that price.

[hellion240sx]

the dodge demon was a concept car that will never be made. not sure why they said they won't make it, but thats what i remember. and i liked the urge concept. i would change a lot of things. but its looking in somewhat of the right direction.

[sideview_180sx]

is anyone missing the fact hyundai already has the next tiburon stat-side and doing long-term testing. RWD 4cyl turbo. Being a hyundai it can't cost too much considering there market is supposed to be the cheaper version of the japanese cars. sonata v. camry so on and so forth. I'd go for the hyundai knowing it will prolly be in the teens.

[exitspeed]

is anyone missing the fact hyundai already has the next tiburon stat-side and doing long-term testing. RWD 4cyl turbo. Being a hyundai it can't cost too much considering there market is supposed to be the cheaper version of the japanese cars. sonata v. camry so on and so forth. I'd go for the hyundai knowing it will prolly be in the teens.

It's been missed in this thread, but it's already been discussed quit a bit in this thread.

#/f//showthread.php?t=127041

[axiomatik]

Well while it will be named Silvia I do not think it will have a S designation. In the past when Nissan has changed the essential chassis it has lost the chassis series designation while retaining the namesake of the car. To give you a classic example of what I am talking about look no further than the Z aka Fairlady. The Z32 and Z33 are in no way related to the S30 chassis series that did run up into the 80's but was killed at the end of that decade. .......

Using your same logic, the Z33 should have had a different designation because it shares nothing with the z32. I'm willing to bet if Nissan released a new silvia/240, it will have a s-chassis designation.

[drift freaq]

Using your same logic, the Z33 should have had a different designation because it shares nothing with the z32. I'm willing to bet if Nissan released a new silvia/240, it will have a s-chassis designation.

You put your own conclusions and words in my mouth. I never said that about the Z33 I only stated what they have done. Oh by the way another piece of Nissans actions in this department,is the fact that the Skylines in Japan now are no longer HCR ECR designations. Hmmmmm more of what I observed and commented on earlier. The odds in this situation do not weigh in your favor in fact they are straight up against. In other words if this was bet you would most likely lose. You need to research Nissan's history my friend they have a habit of changing chassis designations. Your fanciful dreaming of it still having a S chassis designation is just that fanciful dreaming .
It will not take away from the fact that the car will still be a Silvia but it just won't have a S chassis designation.
P.S. for fucks sake all you guys are hung up on this S chassis designation bullshit. Nissan does not see the cars in the publics eye as a S chassis. They see it as a Silvia . Chassis designation is something the general public does not even pay attention only gearheads.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee you are a gearhead. I am too but I admit it! :D

[exitspeed]

I could care less if they call is a suckpornocock-chassis as long as they build this MF thing and it turns out well.

Thats all. :)

[Dopefish]

I could care less if they call is a suckpornocock-chassis as long as they build this MF thing and it turns out well.

Thats all. :)

Quoted for truth.

The R-chassis (BNR/ECR) converted to V-chassis when it went under the FR platform. The Z-chassis stayed 'Z' when it moved to the FR, even though a Z car didn't exist for six or so years prior to the FR platform's debut. The S-chassis has been dead for six years now, and following Nissan's previous business model it makes sense another Silvia/200sx/240sx/Whatever marketing name you choose for your market will return to use soon.

Speaking of marketing and what the consumer will see since chassis codes are not important to them in the least, I'm going to look back to the Z33 for the potential answer behind names although it is complete and utter speculation. The Z33 in the US = 350Z with the 350 being understated and more commonly referred to as Z. In Japan the Z is called the FairladyZ still. Baring this in mind a new Silvia may retain Silvia as it's name in Japan with the abroad marketed name for the US to be (Engine Displacement)S, ex: 250S or understated like the Z, it would be commonly referred as the new S from Nissan.

The chassis designation could go either way honestly, from my research. All depends upon what the internal designers choose, obviously the R-chassis went away as there was no plan to continue the Skyline GT-R trim at the time and thus the V-chassis replaced it. The new GT-R will more than likely receive R-35 or R-36 for it's chassis code. The S-chassis name could fall under the FR platform as well and my money is that it will but there is still an equal chance that it may be called something completely different.

Something to remember is S-chassis remained almost the same throughout the S13, S14 and S15 lifespan with only minor adjustments to the underpinning and suspension. While they were all improvements, they still sat atop the same weak structure, even as badass as it may be. :) Even with the S12 and S110, a lot of stuff can swap on to them between the later S-chassis cars, albeit the S110 and S12 shared a good deal more suspension-wise with the S30 and Z31. The fault of the S13 and beyond was that the chassis was not as stiff as comparable chassis of modern times are, thus they flexed easily in use and even worse upon impact in an accident/collision.

I welcome the newer stiffness and updated suspension geometry of the FR platform but I don't want the fat. The FR platform is a good bit heavier, longer and 'taller' than the older S-chassis ever was. I think the Z is allowed to be heavier as it always offered more muscle, more power, more features and the clout of being a Z-car. The G35 (Skyline in Japan), is allowed for the same reasons as well as being targeted as a 'GT' car, larger and four seats but still sporty. It also carries with it a lot of luxury and comfort in between it all.

The new replacement for the S-chassis should be of similar goals as the ones before it. Lightweight (under 3000lbs is fair), it should sit low and wide to offer an aggressive stance and handling but not appear stout like the V/Z cars. Power output I don't expect much in the US as we never received much in that realm from Nissan with the 'younger' cars but a naturally-aspirated MR20, with some improvements to peak above The 170hp mark (current QR numbers) or in mind of how the KA stayed with the S-chassis, the QR may hang around in 2.5L fashion to 'tide us over'. In Japan I fully expect either a MR20 in turbo form producing ~250hp with lower-end N/A models available as well to help meet ROI on the chassis. I don't think they'd ever take a step backwards and the S15 left a somewhat high level of expectation to maintain.

I am eating all of this up, with the advent of Toyota possibly waking up and smelling the enthusiast market and not the douchebag trend-kids market the Scion lineup currently caters to, Hyundai stepping up with the Tiburon replacement and now Nissan coming back to us with the GT-R and the hopeful future of a smaller RWD coupe from them to fit under the Z's chubby skirt I don't know what to do with my automotive purchase in the near future. I just hope the styling changes from the Urge and other concepts substantially, I cannot stand that bubbly-fat and tall idea on what is meant to be a small and nimble creature.

[fliprayzin240sx]

I still dont think the states will get a turbo charged engine for less than $20k. Its just not feasible since itll drive up the cost of the car. Emissions standards whats killing cars. For them to make a turbo car pass emissions will push the cost of the car. Thats why I think they will cut corners in trying to keep the price down. If they can make a NA rwd car with atleast 200hp/200lbs torque, for about $20k, on a chassis that weights ~2700lbs, it still wouldnt be a bad deal.

[Neejay]

I still dont think the states will get a turbo charged engine for less than $20k. Its just not feasible since itll drive up the cost of the car. Emissions standards whats killing cars. For them to make a turbo car pass emissions will push the cost of the car. Thats why I think they will cut corners in trying to keep the price down. If they can make a NA rwd car with atleast 200hp/200lbs torque, for about $20k, on a chassis that weights ~2700lbs, it still wouldnt be a bad deal.

I agree. I'd settle for that.

[exitspeed]

I still dont think the states will get a turbo charged engine for less than $20k. Its just not feasible since itll drive up the cost of the car. Emissions standards whats killing cars. For them to make a turbo car pass emissions will push the cost of the car. Thats why I think they will cut corners in trying to keep the price down. If they can make a NA rwd car with atleast 200hp/200lbs torque, for about $20k, on a chassis that weights ~2700lbs, it still wouldnt be a bad deal.

I don't either. The fact we have nothing like that one our shores at the moment (Nissan doesn't have anything in Japan right now either. Do they?) makes it even less likely. I'd be willing to bet it's gonna be the SER engine.

[hellion240sx]

i remember when, wow, anyway... right when we were getting the sneak peeks of the versa if you looked closely on the instrument panel, a boost gauge! it was thought to be a FR car! AND it looked like a mini murano iirc. with a 15K-ish price tag. and it came out a whole different car than what people were expecting. i thought i was going to be one to purchase that car. but when they did the old switcharoo on me, I was like ooh no. not happening. man did that go to hell. whatever. just waiting patiently... hell the miata is getting an upgrade in 08 or 09 with a new design :/ nissan better come out with something good soon. but yeah nisssan don't care what we want they are worried what will make them the most money really. well that is with all car companies, i say.

[exitspeed]

i remember when, wow, anyway... right when we were getting the sneak peeks of the versa if you looked closely on the instrument panel, a boost gauge! it was thought to be a FR car! AND it looked like a mini murano iirc. with a 15K-ish price tag. and it came out a whole different car than what people were expecting. i thought i was going to be one to purchase that car. but when they did the old switcharoo on me, I was like ooh no. not happening. man did that go to hell. whatever. just waiting patiently... hell the miata is getting an upgrade in 08 or 09 with a new design :/ nissan better come out with something good soon. but yeah nisssan don't care what we want they are worried what will make them the most money really. well that is with all car companies, i say.

The Versa was loosely based on that BA concept car you are talking about. The concept was dope, but I didn't think for a second they would produce a car like that. It was nothing more then a styling exercise to gauge public reaction.

[hellion240sx]

BASTARDS!!! we'll they did a good job if they meant to disappoint me and a lot of other enthusiasts!

[kalypso123]

I like a distinct outline, for the hood.... the canopy, and the trunk.
modern cars are making their lines too biomorphic and smooth.

that car is ugly.

[CrimsonRockett]

2 year bump...

:lockd: