Pulled tranny to find rattle/vibration problem, pics!!!

[Dream240]

Well I got the tranny pulled this afternoon, here's some pics of the clutch, flywheel and T/O bearing.

My concern is the difference between the old TO (left) and the new TO bearing(right). The old one is "NSK" brand that came with my SPEC clutch. The new one is a "KOYO" TO bearing. Notice the height of the new one. Anyone think this will cause a problem? The worst I can see is that I'll have to adjust my pedal further out for the slave pin placement.

I'm going to verify my koyo part number first thing in the morning.

Also the burn marks on the flywheel and pressure plate, I'm assuming won't hurt anything. There just from some spirited driving. Not even that bad considering I've got over 8000 miles on the clutch already.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny01.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny02.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny03.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny04.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny05.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny06.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z299/coxboy07/tranny07.jpg

[Dream240]

Alright well since all you techies only work on weekdays..... :p

I went ahead and installed the KOYO T/O bearing with the new T/O carrier. The tranny bolted up waaay easy, I only had to adjust the clutch pedal out about 1/8". I also took the PP and flywheel and wetsanded them with some 2000 grit emery cloth. Took the hotspots right out.

I installed a new pilot bushing cause I was already in there. Plus I torqued the flywheel down to 110 ft/lbs. cause I impacted in on last time due to being in a hurry. And finally I replaced my 75-90w valvoline oil with some redline MT-90, hopefully to clean up the shifts some.

Upon initial test drive the car shifted smoother than before, but since I sanded down the friction surfaces, I have to break the clutch in again. So 3000 rpms is my ceiling for a while. The annoying vibration and tranny rattle is still there though not as loud or harsh. I'm pretty sure it's the main input shaft bearing just being worn out. Oh well, I'll just replace the tranny before I tear this one apart to change it out.

I'm mostly updating this thread so that everyone else has more info to go on when trying to diagnose those annoying tranny rattles and noises.

Bottomline.....either live with 'em or get a rebuilt tranny. :)

[apexi240sx]

careful with the rebuilt trannys.. i had mine rebuilt and it went back 6 times! thing is make sure that the shop u take it to has a good rep. now it my trans is cool, on synchro mesh.. but i have a really noisy t/0 bearing, cheap chicago rawhide bearing, i am going to use that same kyo one (oem!) your useing...plus my reverse grinds, tranny cross member bolt hole are stripped...that explains the rattle at 70mph +

[nrg]

I believe the sound is from the tranny itself. some make the sound; some don't.
I've had both the NSK and TOKYO TOB on my clutch. Mine still made the sound.

It's exactly the "main input shaft bearing"

[daryl337]

meh, chicago rawhide bearings suck, however their owners SKF make pretty good bearings.

[DJ_Sunrise]

It doesn't matter which you use. The taller sleeve is the new superceeded sleve. The trumpet style TO bearing is for KA tranny, the closed face is SR tranny. Any combination of the two will work.

The most important thing is that you grease the bearing appropriately. Apply a very thin coat of grease on the face of the bearing that will contact the clutch cover. If you look inside the sleeve, you will see a umm.. cutout in the sleeve, a larger diameter portion.. that's where grease is supposed to go. Glob that shit in there and the shaft... Otherwise you'll find yourself taking the tranny out again very shortly. Also, grease the pivot ball, and the clutch fork where it makes contact with the release sleeve. Don't worry about putting too much grease on the sleeve, fork, etc.. Those parts don't spin. Did I mention put a shitload of grease inside the release sleeve??

What noise do you hear and when?????????????

-Bart

[kandyflip445]

I have that same TO bearing. Works great.

[Dream240]

It doesn't matter which you use. The taller sleeve is the new superceeded sleve. The trumpet style TO bearing is for KA tranny, the closed face is SR tranny. Any combination of the two will work.

The most important thing is that you grease the bearing appropriately. Apply a very thin coat of grease on the face of the bearing that will contact the clutch cover. If you look inside the sleeve, you will see a umm.. cutout in the sleeve, a larger diameter portion.. that's where grease is supposed to go. Glob that shit in there and the shaft... Otherwise you'll find yourself taking the tranny out again very shortly. Also, grease the pivot ball, and the clutch fork where it makes contact with the release sleeve. Don't worry about putting too much grease on the sleeve, fork, etc.. Those parts don't spin. Did I mention put a shitload of grease inside the release sleeve??

What noise do you hear and when?????????????

-Bart

I'm good on the greasing, thanks. I went by the FSM as far as grease points. I'm curious, why are you greasing the T/O bearing contact surface? That grease would stay on for about 2 seconds before it got spin splattered all over the bell housing, PP, and (God forbid) your friction disc. Greasing up the TO bearing contact surface is not necessary, that's why it spins! :)

As far as the noise, it's a varying humming sound coming from the tranny area when I decellerate and only from 3000 rpms to 2400rpms. It is also vibrating now on acceleration at around 3000 but I'm sure that's from the 1-piece steel shaft. After this last tear down, I found the tranny input shaft has WAAAAAY too much endplay. It's the main bearing. I'm just not in the mood to tear this tranny down to change it out. I'm gonna find a used one and change the bearing and seals then just throw it in once I get really tired of hearing it.

Thanks for the input.

[UNISA JECS]

Yea usually its the input shaft bearing which is the first bearing to go I just replaced mine the other day, I'll give you and SKF stocking number on the bearing, it ran me $40 with tax compared to about $80 with a dealer discount, heres the stocking # 6306 NRJEM and this is made by SKF the bearing itself is SKF 6306 NR/C3, that stocking number includes a snap ring grove with snap ring included.

[pr240sx]

In my experience. The main failure of the main input shaft bearing is the lack of pilot bushing or hanging the tranny on the shaft when removing or installing

The pilot bushing supports that long shaft at the other end.

That is, if that bearing is the problem. It could also be the front main countershaft (lower shaft bearing) or even one of the middle shaft bearings.

Only way of knowing.....removing the front tranny cover and checking.

[Dream240]

Yeah the only to know for sure is to pull it. But since this is my daily driver and I've really go no time to pull apart the tranny, leave my car disabled, and correct the problem, I'm just gonna wait until I get another tranny used and fix that then take one afternoon and install it.

Then sell my old one for what it's worth. Someone will be trying to do what I'm planning by then. THEY can tear mine apart.

And yes hanging the tranny on the main shaft will prematurely wear the main bearing. It will also make your disc alignment a bitch when your trying to line up the tranny. The fastest tranny install I ever had was a straight in the hole, and slid right on the shaft without stopping. Once you stop moveing the trany and let it rest you will have a much harder time getting it to line up.

Thanks guys.

[Saucy240]

I believe the sound is from the tranny itself. some make the sound; some don't.
I've had both the NSK and TOKYO TOB on my clutch. Mine still made the sound.

It's exactly the "main input shaft bearing"

Some trannys make more noise then others, old cars make old noises.

[pr240sx]

Actually...all mechanical devices make noise!
But vibration is a killer on any mechanical device.

[Dream240]

Actually...all mechanical devices make noise!
But vibration is a killer on any mechanical device.

Yeah I'm sure the vibration is eating away at the life of my tranny. Oh well, I don't have money to fix it right now anyways.

[s13coupePAdrifters]

shit i have the same noise on my 93 kade and so does my friends 98 ka its between 2500 and 3100 and sounds fucking terrible i think its the shitty to bearing i got with my clutch off ebay (idiot) that i just got put in when i got my 5 speed swap done i wish i had the money to get it dropped and fixed

[Dream240]

okay after doing all this work, no it wasn't the T/O bearing. It's most likely the main input shaft bearing just behind the front bearing retainer.

If you're gonna pull the tranny to change the T/O bearing, replace the front input shaft bearing. It's easy you just need a gear puller, a mallet, and a new bearing.

GL.

[UNISA JECS]

okay after doing all this work, no it wasn't the T/O bearing. It's most likely the main input shaft bearing just behind the front bearing retainer.

If you're gonna pull the tranny to change the T/O bearing, replace the front input shaft bearing. It's easy you just need a gear puller, a mallet, and a new bearing.

GL.

I'll get you a part number for the front inputshaft bearing if you want I just replaced one I bought it local in Colton, CA, I see your in the IE.

[Dream240]

Nah it's okay. Thanks though. I'm picking up my 97' Kouki today. :bigok:

I'm gonna prolly try to sell my 91' as a whole if I can fix the stumbling problem. If not I'm just going to part it out and sell the shell later. The tranny I'm keeping though.

Prolly rebuild it myself and keep for a backup. Thanks again.