everyone is talking about 240's [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Mtt22

08-30-2002, 08:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Aug. 30 2002,9:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What did they mean by, "On a 240sx thats exactly the rear suspension you dont want for drag racing"? (probably missed a few words) How is that EXACTLY what you dont want? Then theirs the typical "KA24 is a crappy platform" Im surprised they didnt use the its a truck motor bullshit <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
he said "but the IRS in 240SX's is exactly what you DON'T want on a rear wheel drive vehicle when you're drag racing."  and hes right, the independent rear suspension does limit the 240's ability to drag race.

whateverjames

08-30-2002, 09:40 PM

i was hoping to see some 240SX bashing so we could make fun of them, but half the people were 240SX owners. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'>

Mtt22: i love the phrase about the pudding. reminds me of those confusing worded math questions on tests.

sampson240sx

08-30-2002, 09:53 PM

Its funny when they make an ass of themselves talking about shit they dont understand. The only good 240sx is one with a SR20? Yeah if i was them id be pretty jealous too.........

AceInHole

08-30-2002, 10:37 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sampson240sx @ Aug. 29 2002,11:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its funny when they make an ass of themselves talking about shit they dont understand. The only good 240sx is one with a SR20? Yeah if i was them id be pretty jealous too.........</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
one or two guys were defending the KA.

tnord

08-30-2002, 10:52 PM

1) who gives a fuck about drag racing
2) i wish i had an Si
3) the KA does suck

camppain

08-30-2002, 10:58 PM

clubsi is a dope forum im on their and ive been there more than on zilvia in the past month

matic 240sx

08-31-2002, 01:13 PM

well, i love how everyone thinks the 240sx sucks for drag racing..  if you are modding your car.. then its for what you are modding it for..  at a time.. i dont know if it still is.  the fastest 4cyl automatic metal body car in the 1/4 was a 97-98 style 240sx..

I think it was DA performance's car.. or turbonetics (leaning towards them)..

ca18guy

08-31-2002, 01:16 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 01 2002,08:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, i love how everyone thinks the 240sx sucks for drag racing.. if you are modding your car.. then its for what you are modding it for.. at a time.. i dont know if it still is. the fastest 4cyl automatic metal body car in the 1/4 was a 97-98 style 240sx..

I think it was DA performance's car.. or turbonetics (leaning towards them)..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Funny how their ragging on the 240sx as a bad drag car when they drive FWD economy cars :wierd:

matic 240sx

08-31-2002, 01:22 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ca18guy @ Aug. 30 2002,3:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 01 2002,08:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, i love how everyone thinks the 240sx sucks for drag racing.. if you are modding your car.. then its for what you are modding it for.. at a time.. i dont know if it still is. the fastest 4cyl automatic metal body car in the 1/4 was a 97-98 style 240sx..

I think it was DA performance's car.. or turbonetics (leaning towards them)..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Funny how their ragging on the 240sx as a bad drag car when they drive FWD economy cars :wierd:</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
lol good one.. half of them prolly have big wings too..

hokiewalrus

08-31-2002, 02:18 PM

Well, what a pleasant surprise...

I clicked on this thread expecting to have to defend my boys from CSi (I had an Si for 2 years before I got my 240) but I'm glad to see intelligence and maturity won out on all sides.

The CSi thread was very intelligent with little bashing, and the same thing with this one...

There's no point in generalizing, there are hardcore people that own all types of cars and ricers that own all kinds of cars.

matic 240sx

09-01-2002, 01:04 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (hokiewalrus @ Aug. 30 2002,4:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, what a pleasant surprise...

I clicked on this thread expecting to have to defend my boys from CSi (I had an Si for 2 years before I got my 240) but I'm glad to see intelligence and maturity won out on all sides.

The CSi thread was very intelligent with little bashing, and the same thing with this one...

There's no point in generalizing, there are hardcore people that own all types of cars and ricers that own all kinds of cars.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yea, thats true.. the 240sx use to free from rice.. but not anymore...  so many people have them around my area now.. mainly s13s.. and ive seen one riced s14.. i dont hate on civics or want to bash em.. but i think some people on their are not know of 240sx that well to be making comments or anything..

98SilviaS14

09-01-2002, 04:14 AM

just an fyi, not a flame, but that's from the Si vs All forum which consists of almost no honda owners. most are very knowledgeable and know their shit, so i wouldn't go bashing them and their "economy cars", as a side note a majority of the posts were by people who actually do, in fact, own 240's...

matic 240sx

09-01-2002, 04:55 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (98SilviaS14 @ Aug. 31 2002,06:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">just an fyi, not a flame, but that's from the Si vs All forum which consists of almost no honda owners. most are very knowledgeable and know their shit, so i wouldn't go bashing them and their "economy cars", as a side note a majority of the posts were by people who actually do, in fact, own 240's...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well, thats your opinion.. i didn't think most of them knew anything about the 240sx..  owning a 240sx doesn't mean anything...  ive told a 240sx owner his car was rear wheel drive.. (sad but true)

ca18guy

09-01-2002, 06:50 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (98SilviaS14 @ Sep. 01 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"economy cars"</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I don't know what they own but it's on a Civic site so I obviously assume they drive a civic and there is no way you cannot say a Civic isn't an economy car.

Tyler Durdan

09-01-2002, 07:07 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Aug. 30 2002,12:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1) who gives a fuck about drag racing
2) i wish i had an Si
3) the KA does suck</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1.) I give a fuck about drag racing, just as well as autoxing
2.)Good for you, but no one cares
3.)The ka does not suck...

Done

silvia S13

09-01-2002, 07:30 PM

Well, just went to clubsi.com and someone post "civics are garbage" and I think it's a joke, cuz he said he's got an Altima with body kit and exhaust and claim to beat any Hondas. This is what someone wrote to him:

"Your shitty nissan will kill ANY honda ANY day? you're a freaking moron. For the price of a civic, turbo, and some little nick nacks scattered around, you're up to the cost of an overpriced Altima. Altimas are nice cars, don't get me wrong, but they aren't sports cars. My next door neighbor's soccermom drives one if that says anything... "

Altimas aren't sports cars, and soccermoms drive them. True. But Civics aren't sports cars at all either. And anybody drives them, from grandma to 17 yr kids.  Some of these people seriously think Civics are sports cars.

adey

09-01-2002, 07:47 PM

... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> ... I thought Club SI was one of those really techincal forums where most people knew their shit... at least that's what it sounds like from what people here are saying. If this clubSI is the one I'm thinking of, I have much respect for them (and probably most of their cars)... I would not be surprised if we had as many (if not more) "ricers" on zilvia than they do on clubsi.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

piratepete420

09-01-2002, 08:07 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ca18guy @ Sep. 01 2002,07:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (98SilviaS14 @ Sep. 01 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"economy cars"</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I don't know what they own but it's on a Civic site so I obviously assume they drive a civic and there is no way you cannot say a Civic isn't an economy car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It may be an economy car, but an si is still a badass car nontheless.

gman240

09-01-2002, 09:41 PM

These types of discussions can be so pointless. The SI civic may have its good points and of course its bad points but i stress it is not a sports car. not really even in the same class as the 240. The 240 sx is  a rear drive car( one of only a few that came from japan as I remeber seeing in this country) It has a true sport car style to it. They have an amazing feel to there handling even in stock form. Yeah the KA is not the most powerful thing but still you can build it to a decent point NA or you can go turbo and then you will have a nice car. HP numbers depend on what you do. Are you a street driving type only? Do you Drag race? Do you autocross? Are you in low level GT style racing? You need to look at each question impossible to broadly sweep the whole canvas and say that the z40sx/silvia is strictly this or strictly that. Personal opinion Honda civics suck when it comes to interior comfort and layout. My 240 has a way more intelligent layout to the controls and overall is just a much cooler car to sit behind the wheel of...

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 03:54 AM

i am not bashing anyone.  the 240sx is a great car and the ka is a great engine.  the civic si... its a car...  it looks like any other civic.. its slow just like any other civic..  maybe the fastest but its slow..  dump 5000 grand into both cars and the 240sx will kill it.  these are facts not opinions.. so face it.. nissan has always had honda whipped...  hondas are cheap i guess thats what they shoot for..

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>

HippoSleek

09-02-2002, 07:46 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (James @ Sep. 02 2002,03:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh for the love of god..... you all need a reality check.
That post didn't bash 240sx's, so don't condemn all "Si" owners or every Honda owner.
And since this is a "240sx" forum I guess I should expect your opnions to be VERY BIASED. Many of you make it sound like the 240 was built by god on the seventh day or something, and is perfect in every way.
Just keep an open mind about things......learn to not be a "Nissan fanatic" but rather an "automotive enthusiast" that can appreciate different makes and models.

And I wouldn't be bashing the Civic Si====shows you know nothing about the import performance "pecking order".
>-----Can't wait to hear the responses on ClubSi if news of this lame-ass thread ever gets back over there!!!-----<</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Easy killer.  There hasn't been much flaming here and virtually none there.  If this stays where it is, we are in good shape.  We really don't need to be in some flame war w/ the 30,000 CSI.   <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>  

Yes, 240 owners are biased - a lot like Si owners.  We've got something not too many people have.  Something else about message boards is that they tend to attract fanatics.  I agree it is taken too far.

As for your "pecking order" I'm not sure what you are getting at.  Both cars have their strengths and weaknesses.  The Civic responds a bit better to bolt-ons, but out of the box, they are pretty close in a straight line.  In a track envrionment, the 240 has a pretty good edge.  Look at the G's a 240 can sustain compared to an Si.  We also have more tire, better brakes, better weight dist., a better driving compartment (Si seats SUCK), and the RWD advantage of being able to rotate the car two ways.  Like it or not, the 240 is based on a sports car design while the Si is based on an econo-box design.  Both have their strengths - the Si its motor and the 240 its chassis.  But a "pecking order" - I don't think so.

Si vs All is dominated by 240 owners and Scream and Nyiles have been around for a while.  They both used to be on FA b/f this place really existed.  They got sick of it and went back to CSI.  I know there are quite a few people on CSI buying up 240s as they are the current "hot" car.  Many of those people are just like our locals.

CSI is not likely to be the board where you respect people's cars.  That's gonna be Honda-Tech.  CSI is a rice fest.  I know - I was there back a few years when it was still decent.  I know a few of the mods there and even THEY hate the place!

Travis - ugh - and Si?  You'd be better off w/ a swap.  There's a reason so few companies ever developed an Si for roadracing - the hatch (esp. 5th gen.) was THAT MUCH better.

tnord

09-02-2002, 01:18 PM

someone please tell me how the KA doesn't suck (in stock form, i don't wanna hear the FI angle)

mark - i'll agree that the hatch is a better place to start, but i wouldn't exactly say the 99/00 si is worthless either, Mr. Harvey seems to be doing alright. and yes, for a dedicated track car, i wouldn't say there's much comparison. but i still think they are cool (basically because of the engine).

travis
who thinks people need to realize the 240 isn't ALL THAT

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 01:47 PM

tnord.. of course the 240sx is not a great ass car.. its a good car.. just like a 1000 others.. we can't afford skylines so we get what we can afford.. and i would never take a honda over a nissan in its price range.. and whats your point about the Si? its slow.. its ugly.. its front wheel.. turbos tear honda engines apart.. so its a great car to spend money on and get into the 14s? COOL! not bashing just stating facts..

95exlude

09-02-2002, 01:53 PM

alright, well just on the line of what makes a sports car, how about what it is at the time? not what it came factory.  I would consider stephen papadakis' civic a sports car for sure (its a coupe not a hatch i might addd), running the quarter in about 8.6.  further, as a comparison, jun's silvia runs the quarter in 8.9.  neither of these cars are real sports cars...stock...but the supra, considered a sports car stock, isnt as fast quarter as either of these :b with veilside's supra running 9.004.  true this is all drag, true the supra would destroy both highway, as would the silvia make a much better track car.  but as someone said, the car is what it is built for.  i just happen to know exact examples for drag.  i dissagree with what matic said about nissan has always had honda whipped.  in fact i believe all in all honda has been leading until they recently retired.  further nissan has never really been a part of the rally community.  dont get me wrong, im working on a 180sx conversion and love nissan, but i also loved my prelude and love my friend's lsvtec civic.  i just dont think anyone can correctly say "nissan has honda whipped"

p.s. all drag times posted have been the fastest i have ever seen, and having discussed this on the 240-sx.com forums those were the fastest we could come up with...correct me if they are wrong.

95exlude

09-02-2002, 01:56 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,2:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">tnord.. of course the 240sx is not a great ass car.. its a good car.. just like a 1000 others.. we can't afford skylines so we get what we can afford.. and i would never take a honda over a nissan in its price range.. and whats your point about the Si? its slow.. its ugly.. its front wheel.. turbos tear honda engines apart.. so its a great car to spend money on and get into the 14s? COOL! not bashing just stating facts..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
matic, my best friend's n/a lsvtec civic is in the 13s and he is planning on turboing it soon, i really dont think its fair to compare turbo to natural.  hondas/acuras were designed to be naturally aspirated with very high compression.

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 02:12 PM

13s with no interior

95exlude

09-02-2002, 02:19 PM

he is at 13s with full interior and a sub and amp in the back

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 02:24 PM

well.. the jun silvia has pulled 7s..  they change set up all the time..

so you are telling me.. that a civic.. NA is pulling 13s?  what all does he have done?

95exlude

09-02-2002, 02:33 PM

can u give me a link of somesort to show me the 7s?

he has lsvtec bored to 2.0, aem short ram, aem fuel controller running 75psi, skunk2 cam gears, dc sports headers, tanabe racing medallion, weisco high compression pistons at 11.2:1, VAFC, ecu, only weight reduction is in his exhaust, wheels, and carbon fiber hood.

gman240

09-02-2002, 02:45 PM

Steven's Civic. That thing is a beast. Granted that is not in any means a road car at all. That is strictly a drag beast. 8.6 and around 180 mph top speed i belive I say in super street. That guy is got one hell of a ride. Much props to the greek with one of the fastest cars around. Yeah the 240 is a good car, 300zx is a better car, skyline GTR is an even better car... Corvettes are awesome as welll. You see there are many good cars... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

95exlude

09-02-2002, 02:51 PM

wanna see a beast? look up the norwood/jotech integra here in dallas...  its a topfuel 4 cylinder pushing out 4600 hp...1200hp per cylinder, i do believe that is the most efficient dragster i have seen, very impressive.

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 03:33 PM

well, i looked on jun's site.. and everywhere else.. best time online is a 8.88 but.. you are comparing a fiberglass body car to a metal body car..  so get a metal body honda civic at that..

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 03:35 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,4:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wanna see a beast? look up the norwood/jotech integra here in dallas... its a topfuel 4 cylinder pushing out 4600 hp...1200hp per cylinder, i do believe that is the most efficient dragster i have seen, very impressive.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
that car is half of a v8 by the way.. custom built engine.. NOTHING on that car is HONDA..

gman240

09-02-2002, 03:35 PM

Saw that one before in one of the magazines. it is essentialy an 8 cylinder engine that was like chopped in half. great to have the power but I also want cars that can be driven on the roads. I will be happy at a range around 300-400 hp and have superior handling when I get really into my project than to have a 500+hp straight line beast. a couple of my favs linked here <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> check em out and enjoy.....
http://www.supercars.net/cars....eg.html (http://www.supercars.net/cars/[email protected]$Chevrolet%[email protected]$Speedster%20Corvetteg. html)
http://www.supercars.net/cars....eg.html (http://www.supercars.net/cars/[email protected]$Chevrolet%[email protected]$Sledgehammer%20Corvett eg.html)
http://www.supercars.net/cars....8g.html (http://www.supercars.net/cars/[email protected]$[email protected]$Corvette%20L88g.html)  
http://www.supercars.net/cars....eg.html (http://www.supercars.net/cars/[email protected]$Chevrolet%[email protected]$Twin%20Turbo%20Corvett eg.html)

95exlude

09-02-2002, 03:40 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,4:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,4:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wanna see a beast? look up the norwood/jotech integra here in dallas... its a topfuel 4 cylinder pushing out 4600 hp...1200hp per cylinder, i do believe that is the most efficient dragster i have seen, very impressive.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
that car is half of a v8 by the way.. custom built engine.. NOTHING on that car is HONDA..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i DIDNT say it WAS, but we were HAVING a CONVERSATION about BEAST cars and i DO believe that car FITS and EVERYTHING i SAID in that POST remains TRUE, and it SEEMS what i SAID about the DRAG CARS also remains TRUE...talking in HALF CAPS is also FUN

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 03:41 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,3:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">alright, well just on the line of what makes a sports car, how about what it is at the time? not what it came factory. I would consider stephen papadakis' civic a sports car for sure (its a coupe not a hatch i might addd), running the quarter in about 8.6. further, as a comparison, jun's silvia runs the quarter in 8.9. neither of these cars are real sports cars...stock...but the supra, considered a sports car stock, isnt as fast quarter as either of these :b with veilside's supra running 9.004. true this is all drag, true the supra would destroy both highway, as would the silvia make a much better track car. but as someone said, the car is what it is built for. i just happen to know exact examples for drag. i dissagree with what matic said about nissan has always had honda whipped. in fact i believe all in all honda has been leading until they recently retired. further nissan has never really been a part of the rally community. dont get me wrong, im working on a 180sx conversion and love nissan, but i also loved my prelude and love my friend's lsvtec civic. i just dont think anyone can correctly say "nissan has honda whipped"

p.s. all drag times posted have been the fastest i have ever seen, and having discussed this on the 240-sx.com forums those were the fastest we could come up with...correct me if they are wrong.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
" We challenged the limits of stock bodies in drag racing. Even though it has just 4 cylinders, the Silvia boasts more than 700 ps. After achieving Japan's first 9-second car, drag racing fans roared out JUN's name when we the broke new ground with our 8"887 record in the U.S. " - JUN

find a honda doing that..

rally community?  are you kidding?

95exlude

09-02-2002, 03:47 PM

*waits for a relevant argument*

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 03:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,5:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*waits for a relevant argument*</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
so your saying that a metal body car vs a fiberglass body car is fair?

gman240

09-02-2002, 03:53 PM

All I need to say is the corvette sleadgehammer is a beast. That car was made by callaway in 1988. It is a 5.7 lliter engine. Pushing 800+hp. 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. 254 mph top speed. Full aerobody package, full interior car. and also STREET LEGAL!!!!!!!!!! Let that be your guide in making determinations on what a beast really is. YEah all nice stripped metal pan inside with racing seat but can you do it with a full interrior and also be road legal.....

95exlude

09-02-2002, 03:58 PM

im saying that the fastest known civic is faster than the fastest known silvia on the strip, which is true,i didnt say it was fair... i have just been telling you things to contradict your foolish statement that all civics are slow...

95exlude

09-02-2002, 04:01 PM

i hate arguing like this "i know of this car that can beat this car you know cuz...yeah" i tell ya what, live anywhere near dallas?  i will beat a car you own with a car i own...how about ur 240 vs my civic...i bet i have invested less money in it than you have and can still win

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 04:12 PM

well, you have to understand that this is the usa.. in the usa we do not have silvias.. we no longer have 240sx.. im sure someone in japan has a faster silvia..  its highly likey that there is a modified silvia in japan that can take out that civic..  and when i say all civics are slow.. i wasn't talking about fully moddified drag cars..  any car can be fast..  my point was that you can't go buy a fast civic.. or any fast honda.. other than the s2000, and nsx..

nissan.. you can buy the 300zx, maxima, altima, 350z.. and several Infinities run 14s..

and if you want to compare full drag cars..

then bring up the million dollar nsx (which breaks every other event).. that can't and will never beat the escort 300zx (7.4)..

AceInHole

09-02-2002, 04:15 PM

not enough beer = the pissing match runs dry.

Question 1:
How streetable is a 10 second Civic??
Question 2:
How streetable is a 10 second 240sx??
Question 3:
If the 240sx and the Civic were both girls, does rear wheel drive mean what I think it would mean??

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 04:15 PM

do you run 13s?  i will really race you if u want.. next time i go to dallas

95exlude

09-02-2002, 04:17 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,5:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, you have to understand that this is the usa.. in the usa we do not have silvias.. we no longer have 240sx.. im sure someone in japan has a faster silvia.. its highly likey that there is a modified silvia in japan that can take out that civic.. and when i say all civics are slow.. i wasn't talking about fully moddified drag cars.. any car can be fast.. my point was that you can't go buy a fast civic.. or any fast honda.. other than the s2000, and nsx..

nissan.. you can buy the 300zx, maxima, altima, 350z.. and several Infinities run 14s..

and if you want to compare full drag cars..

then bring up the million dollar nsx (which breaks every other event).. that can't and will never beat the escort 300zx (7.4)..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well i guess ur going to have trouble if ur going to keep ur cars stock...also lets look at price difference between those stock cars, and i wouldnt argue on an assumption that someone has a faster silvia, and further more lets get back to my challenge, live anywhere near dallas?

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 04:31 PM

yea like 800 miles away.. but ive been there a few times.. and might go again some time soon..  back to my question.. do you run 13s?

95exlude

09-02-2002, 04:38 PM

yes in the civic, told ya that already, if ur commin to dallas give me an email at [email protected], we can set up a run

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 04:43 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,6:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes in the civic, told ya that already, if ur commin to dallas give me an email at [email protected], we can set up a run</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
k  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> sounds like a plan

95exlude

09-02-2002, 04:45 PM

we are going to start stripping the civic soon after we get done with body work, then comes the turbo, not much boost (5 psi) but thats keeping the compression ratio as is...i hope to have the 180 ready in about a month; stock sr20det, for now

tnord

09-02-2002, 07:42 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,2:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">tnord.. of course the 240sx is not a great ass car.. its a good car.. just like a 1000 others.. we can't afford skylines so we get what we can afford.. and i would never take a honda over a nissan in its price range.. and whats your point about the Si? its slow.. its ugly.. its front wheel.. turbos tear honda engines apart.. so its a great car to spend money on and get into the 14s? COOL! not bashing just stating facts..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
the 240 is a good car just like 1000 others.
exactly, so how do the majority of you come up with the conclusion that so and so sucks compared to what we have?

slow?
maybe, but it's faster than what we have.
si 0-60 7.2
240 0-60 8.3
not even a comparison

never take a honda over a nissan?
a bit thick headed/stubborn/ignorant are we?

ugly?
i would tend to disagree

turbo's?
who's talkin about turbo's? compare the car stock for stock, it's the only really fair comparison.

stating facts???
i would tend to say that UGLY is a pretty individual view. your performance "facts" are obviously anything but

95exlude

09-02-2002, 08:24 PM

i wouldn't call matic completely ignorant as he knows what he is talking about.  i just think we have a heavily different bias.

SimpleS14

09-02-2002, 08:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ Sep. 01 2002,6:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">not enough beer = the pissing match runs dry.

Question 1:
How streetable is a 10 second Civic??
Question 2:
How streetable is a 10 second 240sx??
Question 3:
If the 240sx and the Civic were both girls, does rear wheel drive mean what I think it would mean??</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1) Not possible.....

2) Barely.....

3) I don't get it?  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>  but then again I think I do......

Anyways, to every man/women they have there own opinions and feeling towards what they like and what they dislike.  There is no reason the take ish that people say to heart (not pointing out to anyone), esspecially when its online.  You have your facts and proofs while he or she has theirs (once again not pointing at anyone).  When it comes down to it...a car is a car no matter what's done to get or how fast it goes.  There's no need to hate or let things get to you.  Basically Honda makes good cars and Nissan makes good cars, you just have to pick the right one for yourself and keep the hating, bashing or whatever at a competative(sp?) level where your both learning something from each other and teaching at the same time.

Sorry if I not making any sense.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>  

BTW, STOCK for STOCK.....the S-14 does look nicer than a '00 Si....but thats just my opinion(sp?).  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

95exlude

09-02-2002, 09:10 PM

exactly why matic n i are gonna take it to the street.  we can race, someone will win, then we can learn from each other's motors.  i just thought i would throw this out too, this was from earlier today on another 240sx forum, makes me kinda afraid to become part of the 240 community... click me (http://club240.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1187)

One-Eighty SX

09-02-2002, 09:20 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GT specR @ Sep. 02 2002,9:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, STOCK for STOCK.....the S-14 does look nicer than a '00 Si....but thats just my opinion(sp?). <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I gonna try to add something hear my self, i agree what gt specR jus qouted. b/c a car is a car its ur choice to choose what fits ur style of driving whether it be drag racing, autocross, road racing, drifting, and rallying. Each car has its pro and cons not all cars are GODLY made perfect. So that is why we enhance certain areas of the car to make up for there lack of. I was stupid when i got this honda and pretty much uneducated what to get. But since i have learned a great deal from my friends i regret getting a honda b/c its blowing up over here and plus its alll damn ricers. With certain exceptions of nice turbo'd civics like some hatches preferabley and crx's. So i had to live wid my pathetic decision of gettin a civic cuz that was what iwas into at the time. Do i regret it more than ever now cuz i really wanted a 97 240sx... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sneaky.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':pissed:'> . GT SpecR i totally aggree wid u bout the 97-98 kouki 240sx looks way better and meaner than a si any day <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>

sporty240sx

09-02-2002, 09:20 PM

Hey folks. Someone compared the 0-60 MPH times of the 240 and civic but didn't mention what year... If I recall correctly from a magazine article found on 240sx.org. The 95 240 ran an impressive 7.5 seconds. I agree that an SI will probably beat the 240 ( any year ) in the 1/4 mile but the 0-60 times are closer than you think. The 240 has A LOT more torque so I don't think it will have any problem spanking the civic off the line.

And what about handling and braking distances?? I think the 240 is better than the SI in that respect. I don't have the exact specs on me but I think someone can back me up on this.  Or how about heritage. The 240sx is a descendant of a legendary Japanese sports car ( 240z) while the civic is based off of an economy car. I'm not disrespecting any car. I love both Honda's and Nissans but I think the two cars are in a different class and shouldn't be compared.

The Honda Civic is NOT a sports car. It never was and never will be. I don't care how fast it is. It's a reliable efficient car meant for sensible transportation.

The 240sx is a sports car although underpowered. It has great handling and is A LOT more fun to drive than a civic.

And in my opinion the 240sx ( s13 or s14 ) is soooo much sexier than a civic. In fact I've seen silvia front end conversions for the civic. I don't think any 240 owner is thinking of a civic conversion for their car. I'm done rambling now hehe.

Sherv

95exlude

09-02-2002, 10:04 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sporty240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,10:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey folks. Someone compared the 0-60 MPH times of the 240 and civic but didn't mention what year... If I recall correctly from a magazine article found on 240sx.org. The 95 240 ran an impressive 7.5 seconds. I agree that an SI will probably beat the 240 ( any year ) in the 1/4 mile but the 0-60 times are closer than you think. The 240 has A LOT more torque so I don't think it will have any problem spanking the civic off the line.

And what about handling and braking distances?? I think the 240 is better than the SI in that respect. I don't have the exact specs on me but I think someone can back me up on this. Or how about heritage. The 240sx is a descendant of a legendary Japanese sports car ( 240z) while the civic is based off of an economy car. I'm not disrespecting any car. I love both Honda's and Nissans but I think the two cars are in a different class and shouldn't be compared.

The Honda Civic is NOT a sports car. It never was and never will be. I don't care how fast it is. It's a reliable efficient car meant for sensible transportation.

The 240sx is a sports car although underpowered. It has great handling and is A LOT more fun to drive than a civic.

And in my opinion the 240sx ( s13 or s14 ) is soooo much sexier than a civic. In fact I've seen silvia front end conversions for the civic. I don't think any 240 owner is thinking of a civic conversion for their car. I'm done rambling now hehe.

Sherv</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
im just gonna go ahead and dissagree and repeat what someone said, "a car is what you build it to be". moving on, my civic looks like shit, its a white coupe but has been wrecked so has a red passenger door and black bumpers.  its respectably fast tho, especially for a naturally aspirated car.  its great to see these 'sporty' cars such as 240sxs, n/a 300zxs, preludes, integras get their asses handed to them just cuz they thought they could own this ugly 'economy car'.

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 10:27 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (James @ Sep. 01 2002,10:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tnord: Couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm beginning to learn that there are alot of mis-informed/just plain ignorant 240sx drivers.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yea ima mis-imformed mechanic.. and ex honda driver..

nice one  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

SR20Fastback

09-02-2002, 10:29 PM

Alright time to break out the big stick....

YOU'RE ALL FUCKING MORONS!

now to step out of my asshole mode...

Ok like James (one-eighty sx) said a car is a car. Some of you think a civic is an economy car and a 240 is an underpowered sports car. Some of you think a car is what you make it. I think either way... you mod a civic, you still drive a FUCKING CIVIC... You mod a 240, you still drive a damn 240!!

Get the picture. You may dump thousands of dollars into a car, and think its all badass and fast. Point being, their are way better cars that will still drive past you and laugh.

I had a ton of shit to say because I keep reading this, and was getting pissed about all this dumb shit you guys are all arguing about. If matic and prelude guy whatever are gonna race, good luck to both of you but please take it to a track, not the streets like prelude wonder boy guy said.

Alright Im going to bed, I need to hybernate before school starts! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleeping.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzzz:'>

matic 240sx

09-02-2002, 10:47 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Sep. 01 2002,9:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,2:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">tnord.. of course the 240sx is not a great ass car.. its a good car.. just like a 1000 others.. we can't afford skylines so we get what we can afford.. and i would never take a honda over a nissan in its price range.. and whats your point about the Si? its slow.. its ugly.. its front wheel.. turbos tear honda engines apart.. so its a great car to spend money on and get into the 14s? COOL! not bashing just stating facts..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
the 240 is a good car just like 1000 others.
exactly, so how do the majority of you come up with the conclusion that so and so sucks compared to what we have?

slow?
maybe, but it's faster than what we have.
si 0-60 7.2
240 0-60 8.3
not even a comparison

never take a honda over a nissan?
a bit thick headed/stubborn/ignorant are we?

ugly?
i would tend to disagree

turbo's?
who's talkin about turbo's? compare the car stock for stock, it's the only really fair comparison.

stating facts???
i would tend to say that UGLY is a pretty individual view. your performance "facts" are obviously anything but</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
sorry to double post..

slow?
maybe, but it's faster than what we have.
si 0-60 7.2
240 0-60 8.3
not even a comparison

- 8.3? someone can't drive.. i could do better in an auto lets try other comparisons...
civic si     -    240sx
160 hp     -    155 hp
111 tq      -    160 tq
159 BDft   -    125 BDft
fwd          -     rwd
1.6ltr        -     2.4ltr

never take a honda over a nissan?
a bit thick headed/stubborn/ignorant are we?

- how? i would never buy a car only because its cheap.. so no i wouldn't buy a honda, compare class to class and nissans kill hondas..

ugly?
i would tend to disagree

- u like plain looking cars that you see a 100 of a day?

turbo's?
who's talkin about turbo's? compare the car stock for stock, it's the only really fair comparison.

- i dont leave cars stock

stating facts???
i would tend to say that UGLY is a pretty individual view. your performance "facts" are obviously anything but

- wow you got me

tnord

09-02-2002, 10:49 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sporty240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,10:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey folks. Someone compared the 0-60 MPH times of the 240 and civic but didn't mention what year... If I recall correctly from a magazine article found on 240sx.org. The 95 240 ran an impressive 7.5 seconds. I agree that an SI will probably beat the 240 ( any year ) in the 1/4 mile but the 0-60 times are closer than you think. The 240 has A LOT more torque so I don't think it will have any problem spanking the civic off the line.

And what about handling and braking distances?? I think the 240 is better than the SI in that respect. I don't have the exact specs on me but I think someone can back me up on this. Or how about heritage. The 240sx is a descendant of a legendary Japanese sports car ( 240z) while the civic is based off of an economy car. I'm not disrespecting any car. I love both Honda's and Nissans but I think the two cars are in a different class and shouldn't be compared.

The Honda Civic is NOT a sports car. It never was and never will be. I don't care how fast it is. It's a reliable efficient car meant for sensible transportation.

The 240sx is a sports car although underpowered. It has great handling and is A LOT more fun to drive than a civic.

And in my opinion the 240sx ( s13 or s14 ) is soooo much sexier than a civic. In fact I've seen silvia front end conversions for the civic. I don't think any 240 owner is thinking of a civic conversion for their car. I'm done rambling now hehe.

Sherv</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
the years i got the times for was a 00 Si and a 98 240.

on the braking issue, i'd have to think the civic has the edge (although this is purely speculation) based on the larger rotors, most likely larger calipers, and lighter weight (although i doubt it's more than 100lbs or so).

overall, the civic Si is a faster car, hence why it is in "C" and i'm in "D" for classing purposes according to the org. i compete with.

95exlude

09-02-2002, 10:53 PM

*applauds a fairly pointless post*

so you're backing up my post that the norwood car is still infact an integra? (i dont think it is)

no one said they wern't driving so and so car.  it was merely the labels of 'sports car' and 'economy car'.

"Get the picture. You may dump thousands of dollars into a car, and think its all badass and fast. Point being, their are way better cars that will still drive past you and laugh."

then again there are those ppl that pay 80k for a stock car and we build a car for 20k, and our 20k car rapes there's.  we get to laugh that much harder.  in some ppl's cases they get the thrill of knowing the work of their own hands made their car that much faster, im doubting ur one of these ppl...

fyi- street was a figurative word meaning track- ever wonder why they call it pro street even though you are on a track?

tnord

09-03-2002, 12:21 AM

"8.3? someone can't drive.."

now that i think about it, that's probably for an auto. my guess for the 5sp is about 7.5 or more. still slower than an Si. are the acceleration #'s comparable? sure, but still slower. if you wanna really compare #'s, i'll find you the most comprehensive comparison of a car's performance........lap times.

"i would never buy a car only because its cheap.. so no i wouldn't buy a honda"

ha. cheap. honda's last as long as they do and resale for higher than just about anything made outside germany because they're cheap. right............got any proof or theory behind why you think they're cheap?

"turbo's?
who's talkin about turbo's? compare the car stock for stock, it's the only really fair comparison.

- i dont leave cars stock"

how the hell you want to compare them then?

SR20Fastback

09-03-2002, 02:19 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 02 2002,9:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*applauds a fairly pointless post*

so you're backing up my post that the norwood car is still infact an integra? (i dont think it is)

no one said they wern't driving so and so car. it was merely the labels of 'sports car' and 'economy car'.

"Get the picture. You may dump thousands of dollars into a car, and think its all badass and fast. Point being, their are way better cars that will still drive past you and laugh."

then again there are those ppl that pay 80k for a stock car and we build a car for 20k, and our 20k car rapes there's. we get to laugh that much harder. in some ppl's cases they get the thrill of knowing the work of their own hands made their car that much faster, im doubting ur one of these ppl...

fyi- street was a figurative word meaning track- ever wonder why they call it pro street even though you are on a track?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I would really like to get childish with this post and say something like STFU... but Im not going to. Instead Im gonna sit here, and watch you talk about how you've got some insanely fast 10 second civic.... and talk about how I dont know how to work on my car... You keep thinking that and go back to your fast and the furious dvd...

ps: I know you have a vin diesel poster on your ceiling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

matic 240sx

09-03-2002, 06:41 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Sep. 02 2002,02:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"8.3? someone can't drive.."

now that i think about it, that's probably for an auto. my guess for the 5sp is about 7.5 or more. still slower than an Si. are the acceleration #'s comparable? sure, but still slower. if you wanna really compare #'s, i'll find you the most comprehensive comparison of a car's performance........lap times.

"i would never buy a car only because its cheap.. so no i wouldn't buy a honda"

ha. cheap. honda's last as long as they do and resale for higher than just about anything made outside germany because they're cheap. right............got any proof or theory behind why you think they're cheap?

"turbo's?
who's talkin about turbo's? compare the car stock for stock, it's the only really fair comparison.

- i dont leave cars stock"

how the hell you want to compare them then?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
look, i dont want to argue anymore... its a new day and im in a good mood..   <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

you have your points why you like civics and other hondas..

and i have mine why i don't..    <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

and i wasn't saying that a honda is a cheap made car..

i mean price wise.. most people i know have bought them for really cheap....  they wanted something else.. but couldn't afford it..

HippoSleek

09-03-2002, 08:26 AM

Ugh - I still cringe at the thought of Travis in an Si.  Almost everyone I know with one is getting rid of it to make a different car.  While the Si has a great engine, the rest of the car is just too much to haul around.  As for the development of the Si in USTCC - that is unfair really.  Everyone knows that a swapped hatch would be faster.  The problem is getting sponsors for that car.  That's why people started developing the 6th gen. Si - not b/c it was a better car.

Many of you know that I am in the "Honda makes a damb good car" camp.  I think the Si is no exception - but I draw a line right about at the 240.  I think they are close, but I think the 240 wins on the basis of platform over the Civic's stellar engine.  

My background is former Si hatch owner (sohc vtec), current 240sx owner (s14 stock), and former Si autox co-driver.  The lap times I have, compared to a few other drivers I know, prove that I am almost as fast in a 120K mi. bone stock (even shocks) 240 as I am in an Si w/ a well sorted suspension.  I found the 99 Si to be a pig compared to my old hatch.  Way too heavy and way to hard to drive (any slip out of the power band will be rewarded w/ Geo-like performance! ).  The 240, but contrast, feels more nimble, despite the slight added weight b/c of the ease or turning and the availability of power on oversteer.

A little more fuel to the fire - these numbers are from C&D
Civic Si (http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/1999/April/199904_roadtest_honda_civicsi.xml?&Manufacturer=Honda&Name=Civic&class=42&page=6)
1995 240 (http://www.240sx.org/links/magazine/car&driver/c&d0594/c&d05946.jpg)

                    SI                       240
Weight:         2584                   2860 (auto LE)
hp             [email protected]              [email protected]
tq              [email protected]             [email protected]
redline           8000                    6500
weight dist    62/38                    55/45 (auto)
rear seat vol.  34 cu. ft.              17 cu. ft. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
brakes f/r      10.3/9.4                 9.9/10.2
tires            195/55/16               205/55/16

0-60              7.1 sec                    7.5 sec
0-100            21.3                        22.8
street 5-60     8.3                          8.0
30-50            10.3                         9.6
50-70            11.3                       11.0
1/4 mi.         [email protected]                 [email protected]
70-0              210'                        171'
g's                 .85                          .87
understeer     moderate                  minimal

As you can see, the speed difference isn't tremendous and the winner depends on the type of test.  Handling, however, is a 240 advantage w/ braking at cornering at the head of its class.  

That is a lot about what everyone is saying - that the Civic has the heart of a lion and the chassis of a lamb.  The 240 is the reverse... except that it's lamb's heart is almost as stout as the Si's lion heart.  In the end, great motor aside, the the Si is built on a sh!tty platform for a performance car.  It took a lot of work to make the ITR - work they didn't begin to put in w/ the Si.

matic 240sx

09-03-2002, 08:44 AM

:::prints and frames hipposleek's post:::

****POST OF THE MONTH AWARD!!****

great way to put it!  you should work for a magizine

AceInHole

09-03-2002, 09:17 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 02 2002,10:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">great way to put it! you should work for a magizine</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
no way... there were too many facts and stuff that smart people might think of to be in any import mag.

tnord

09-03-2002, 11:50 AM

everyone knows the 99-00 Si is a PIG

-see specs above.

I think they are close, but I think the 240 wins on the basis of platform over the Civic's stellar engine.  

-this is probably where we differ. i would tend to say that the engine is more important. (given a decent chassis at least)

The lap times I have, compared to a few other drivers I know, prove that I am almost as fast in a 120K mi. bone stock (even shocks) 240 as I am in an Si w/ a well sorted suspension

-now c'mon mark. you know as well as i do that this is mostly attributed to driver experience. how much more track time have you had since you ran the ol hatch. how much exp did you have when you ran the hatch to begin with? and what engine did you have in that thing?

i'm not arguing with those numbers, in fact, C&D was the original place i was looking for specs, but i do have a couple points to make.
1) i'm wondering how those rolling acceleration tests are performed. say, is the 5-60 test started in 1st or 2nd gear? one method obviously benefits one car. same with the others.....are they performed in top gear, or at the top of the powerband?
2) i'm still skeptical on the whole braking thing. stoping distances are more a measure of tire grip and size, not brake performance. lets put the same set of tires on these things to really even it out, then do a multiple stop test to measure fade.

one thing i will completely agree with is the last paragraph in marks post.

Travis
-who can still find a way to be critical of even the best posts.

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

HippoSleek

09-03-2002, 12:44 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (James @ Sep. 03 2002,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To throw a wrench in ....why only compare the 99-00 Civic Si to the 240?!? Is that the best Honda can come up with?
What about a 1988 Crx Si?
Stock for Stock it's 2000lbs w/108hp with a sports suspension.
I think it could take a 240 in a straight and whoop on a course. (You KNOW how many Crx's do auto-x.)
Yeah everyone knows the 99-00 Si is a PIG. (That's why they get stolen for their motors) But I'm not even talking about swaps- STOCK CRX ----discuss among yourselves.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Okay, James.  Stop it.  Seriously.  You are being a troll and wasting my time.  Unfortunately, I need to refute your assinine suggestions so here goes.  But next time, do the bloody homework yourself!

Seat of pants:  I've never driven a CRX.  I've been in them, behind them, and in front of them.  I know several people who run them.  My first track day, I did a lead follow w/ a competitive H-stock autoxer in his Si (on street tires) and my s14 (bone stock on M+S tires).  It wasn't any fun.  The instructor working us apologized - he thought it would be close - especially given the driver.  Otherwise, there is a reason a well built ITA SOHC s13 (see, Bob Stretch) will beat a well built ITA CRX.  For that matter, there is a reason 240s with dohc run in ITS and the CRX in ITA - hint - it's not b/c ITA is faster.  (the difference seems to be about 20 seconds per lap on the longer tracks around here).  At 2000 lbs, they are great autoxers though - I'll give you that.  I'm sure you know the difference between cone chasing and track performance?  

Now, some numbers - lest you disagree w/ my non-scientific observations  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
Stats taken from MotorTrend via NorCal CRX club page (http://www.norcalcrx.org/si_rt.html)
Weight         2086
hp             [email protected]
tq             [email protected]

brakes       9.5/7.1 DRUM
tires           185/60/14

0-60             8.2
1/4 mi.        16.4

60-0            141 - can't find 70... 80 = 258'
g's               .78

There isn't a single category that the CRX competes with the 240 in - except, as noted, autox.  Small cars kick ass in autox b/c they are small - not b/c they are faster or better.  And no, no one is talking about swaps, b/c at that point, the 240 might be a comparison for the s2K (I've never seen such a test) and it will get killed by the NSX.

Do us a favor and lay that one out.   <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>

SimpleS14

09-03-2002, 12:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 01 2002,11:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">exactly why matic n i are gonna take it to the street. we can race, someone will win, then we can learn from each other's motors. i just thought i would throw this out too, this was from earlier today on another 240sx forum, makes me kinda afraid to become part of the 240 community... click me (http://club240.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1187)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The 240 community is how you make it, one lame thread and a couple of posts do not represent how most of us are.  I'm not trying to start anything, but all I'm saying is that nothing and nobody is perfect and never will not matter what.  Also you should take something that someone post (types) on the net seriously...once again not starting anything.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

HippoSleek

09-03-2002, 01:15 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Sep. 03 2002,12:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.  The lap times I have, compared to a few other drivers I know, prove that I am almost as fast in a 120K mi. bone stock (even shocks) 240 as I am in an Si w/ a well sorted suspension

-now c'mon mark. you know as well as i do that this is mostly attributed to driver experience. how much more track time have you had since you ran the ol hatch. how much exp did you have when you ran the hatch to begin with? and what engine did you have in that thing?

2.  i'm not arguing with those numbers, in fact, C&D was the original place i was looking for specs, but i do have a couple points to make.
1) i'm wondering how those rolling acceleration tests are performed. say, is the 5-60 test started in 1st or 2nd gear? one method obviously benefits one car. same with the others.....are they performed in top gear, or at the top of the powerband?
2) i'm still skeptical on the whole braking thing. stoping distances are more a measure of tire grip and size, not brake performance. lets put the same set of tires on these things to really even it out, then do a multiple stop test to measure fade.

3.  one thing i will completely agree with is the last paragraph in marks post.

Travis
-who can still find a way to be critical of even the best posts.

*number by Mark</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1.  I agree w/ the driver experience issue.  While I can't explain it, I tried to factor in both ass dyno and laptimes to arrive at my result.  There are a few levels here.  For track time - I had 0 experience in the hatch - autox only!  Ditto the 99 Si (I wouldn't have pushed enough even if I did).  So, for track times, I compared certain people to my own times.  These were people that are moving with me or at a slightly faster pace (more events).  In autox, they were faster in the same car, my hatch, and my 240.  On the track, the margin was closer than in autox.  Could be I am a better track driver.  

In autox comparisons, I have put virtually no seat time in for the last year.  However, in the few autoxes I've done, I ran almost the same times in my tired ES 240 as my former co-driver and others in their full STS prepped Si's.  They were all b/n 1 and 3 seconds faster when I was driving the Si (2-5 in the hatch).  I don't think I got instantly better the week I bought the 240.

I'd love to do a lap to lap track comparison w/ the same driver piloting both cars - but I'm not letting them drive my car and they're not letting me drive theirs!  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/satisfied.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':satisfied:'>

2.  No idea on 5-60;  I think the others are preformed in a higher gear - they don't allow shifting or over-revving (my guess is 3rd and 4th).  The other side of that coin is that straight line tests allow the car to stay in the revs, where b series motors like to be, even though that is unlikely in the real or track worlds.  I added both numbers b/c it shows the balance of screaming rev based power vs. tq - which is a fair comparison/trade-off.

As for the brakes/tires issue, there is a point where you have to call it.  The tires on the Si sucked.  The 240s were pretty good.  That is a huge difference.  Also, it is well known that OEM Honda pads are about the best OEM around and Nissan sucked.  Who runs stock tires or OEM pads though?  Unfortunately, that is the only way to compare.  It ain't perfect - but it works.  That's why I put in the tire size - although a 195 and a 205 are close.

3.  I think that really is the end of it.  You can do so much more to both cars, but stock for stock, you have the weakness of the KA vs. the weakness of the EK chassis.  In the end, it's what you like. and what you can improve.

240 2NR

09-03-2002, 01:18 PM

**Generic reply to all threads like this**  All cars have their positive and negative traits.  An Si may have some things going for it that the 240 doesn't but until you add the human factor, it's all just on paper.  You can compare numbers all day if you want and even lap times but they only tell you part of the story (some tracks favor hp, others nimble handling).  Go out and drive them and pick the one you like.  Driver involvement is probably the most important facror, because if you don't trust/ feel comfortable with the car, you won't be fast.  

Do you want a sports car or a sporty coupe?  This last weekend on the crappy streets of chicago had me considering alternatives if that's what I have to live with for the next few years once I move down there.  Personally I like how functional my 240 is.  It's competent at the track on weekends, gets me to work everyday and the hatch swallows a lot of stuff that has no right fitting in a sports car.  An Si is right for some people, the 240 is right for others.  Neither car is perfect.

matic 240sx

09-03-2002, 03:29 PM

anyone else sick of looking at this topic? lol...  i just feel that the civic si is made out to be such a great car.. when all it really is, is a 15 second compact..  yes i know the 240sx is also a 15 second car.. but personally i wouldn't compare to cars by their 1/4 time if they run higher than 14..  if its not less that 15.00 then its pointless..  and the integra type r can't keep up with a 240sx in autox.. so i know the civic si wont..

240 2NR

09-03-2002, 03:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (matic 240sx @ Sep. 03 2002,4:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">anyone else sick of looking at this topic? lol... i just feel that the civic si is made out to be such a great car.. when all it really is, is a 15 second compact.. yes i know the 240sx is also a 15 second car.. but personally i wouldn't compare to cars by their 1/4 time if they run higher than 14.. if its not less that 15.00 then its pointless.. and the integra type r can't keep up with a 240sx in autox.. so i know the civic si wont..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Where does that come from?  I've never looked up national results, but looking at the local ones, it's usually dominated by civics, probably due to the fact that they're cheap to race and lots of people own them (over inherent race ability, though they must have some if they do well).  Not many 240's around here but even the SR'd ones I've seen results for aren't very far up in the pack, mostly due to drivers I'm sure as they're usually out for the first time.

matic- you seem to want to add fuel for this fire.  A chassis can only take you so far.  A lot is left to the driver.  There are people who can make anything fast and there are people who can make anything slow.  An ITR is no slouch of a car and you're the first I've heard of one losing to a stock 240 for just about anything.  What do you base that on?

Another way to look at this arguement is that a civic Si is based on a broad market car that serves everyone from grandmas to 17yr olds and does pretty well given such a handicap.  The 240, as a dedicated sports car on it's own platform, does almost everything just a little better with more trade offs to the typical consumer.  Which is the better car?

95exlude

09-03-2002, 08:08 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Sep. 03 2002,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 02 2002,9:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*applauds a fairly pointless post*

so you're backing up my post that the norwood car is still infact an integra? (i dont think it is)

no one said they wern't driving so and so car. it was merely the labels of 'sports car' and 'economy car'.

"Get the picture. You may dump thousands of dollars into a car, and think its all badass and fast. Point being, their are way better cars that will still drive past you and laugh."

then again there are those ppl that pay 80k for a stock car and we build a car for 20k, and our 20k car rapes there's. we get to laugh that much harder. in some ppl's cases they get the thrill of knowing the work of their own hands made their car that much faster, im doubting ur one of these ppl...

fyi- street was a figurative word meaning track- ever wonder why they call it pro street even though you are on a track?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I would really like to get childish with this post and say something like STFU... but Im not going to. Instead Im gonna sit here, and watch you talk about how you've got some insanely fast 10 second civic.... and talk about how I dont know how to work on my car... You keep thinking that and go back to your fast and the furious dvd...

ps: I know you have a vin diesel poster on your ceiling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah gj reading...i think 13s ALL MOTOR, meaning naturally aspirated and running pump gas no nitrous is fairly impressive, also the car has full interior...

SR20Fastback

09-03-2002, 11:12 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 03 2002,7:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR20Fastback @ Sep. 03 2002,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (95exlude @ Sep. 02 2002,9:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*applauds a fairly pointless post*

so you're backing up my post that the norwood car is still infact an integra? (i dont think it is)

no one said they wern't driving so and so car. it was merely the labels of 'sports car' and 'economy car'.

"Get the picture. You may dump thousands of dollars into a car, and think its all badass and fast. Point being, their are way better cars that will still drive past you and laugh."

then again there are those ppl that pay 80k for a stock car and we build a car for 20k, and our 20k car rapes there's. we get to laugh that much harder. in some ppl's cases they get the thrill of knowing the work of their own hands made their car that much faster, im doubting ur one of these ppl...

fyi- street was a figurative word meaning track- ever wonder why they call it pro street even though you are on a track?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I would really like to get childish with this post and say something like STFU... but Im not going to. Instead Im gonna sit here, and watch you talk about how you've got some insanely fast 10 second civic.... and talk about how I dont know how to work on my car... You keep thinking that and go back to your fast and the furious dvd...

ps: I know you have a vin diesel poster on your ceiling <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah gj reading...i think 13s ALL MOTOR, meaning naturally aspirated and running pump gas no nitrous is fairly impressive, also the car has full interior...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The 10 second thing was a joke. If you REALLY do run 13 seconds with this civic (that I thought you said was your friends), then I would like to see some time slips please.