SR20 Problems with timing

[makulit054]

Here's my setup:
sr20det redtop, ECU 62
FMIC
Blitz BOV
Stock turbo 7/8psi
SAFC II(only used for DEC AIR)
JIC Exhaust
Megan DP

A couple of days ago my car was running fine. Then it started to run sluggish like it was NA. I checked my timing and it was off. I checked it couple of days before this happened and it was at 15BTDC. Now it's way past the last mark from the right. That's why my car is running like it's NA and idling fine. I checked the timing with the TPS off. I checked all my sensors, all voltages at the sensors and ecu, they are all good. Checked wiring, its good. I know if the ecu detects knock it will adjust the timing. I replaced my KS and still the same thing. I also tried fooling the ECU by putting a .550M resistor but nothing changed. The voltage for the knock sensor was 2.5VDC and the same when I used the resistor. I 've check for vacuum and boost leaks, did not find any. No codes come up on the ecu besides 55. :confused:
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[johngriff]

Is boost reacting the same way?

Is the vacuum at idle still good?

Have you done a compression test?

Average heat gone up?

After market temp guage? location?

[makulit054]

Boost is not the same. In first, i feel it pull but my boost gauge says i have between 2-4psi. In all other gears it shows full boost but lacks power. No, I havent done a compression test but would that affect my timing. at idle it's at 0 psi, i have the boost gauge T'd off the waste gate line. No, aftermarket temp gauge. Haven't noticed any temp changes.

[johngriff]

is it a vacuum/boost guage or only a boost guage?

[makulit054]

vacuum and boost.

[johngriff]

ok.

0 at idle means you have a bad boost/vacuum leak. Or really bad compression.

[makulit054]

my boost is T'd off my wastegate from the nipple below the throttle. My gauge read 0psi at idle even before this happened. I know if I T my boost gauge off the vacuum line from my FPR then it will read vacuum at idle.

[johngriff]

then you should do that to get a good diagnostic read before we proceed. Go outside and get a reading.

[makulit054]

switch my gauge to the FPR line?

[johngriff]

yeah, that should work, just so you can get a vacuum reading at idle. It will let you know if the cylinders are pulling low pressure, the timing is off, if there are leaks... etc.

[makulit054]

ok. I will try that and get back to you. Thanks for all your help. I will try and look you when i transfer back the SoCal.

[johngriff]

Yeah, no problem. Use this guide when doing the test.

Its for an f150, but its really similar.

http://www.fordf150.net/howto/diagnoseengine.php

After this, we'll be after the compression, then my next guess is the turbine, because of the low boost reading.

The timing is changing because the ecu controls the timing based off the volume of metered air, which can/could be changing because of leak, turbine failure, or failure to pull enough air at vacuum because of a low compression issue.

[makulit054]

ok. The readings from the vacuum gauge were normal readings all the way around. Something happened though. I disconnected my vacuum/boost gauge from the T on the waste gate and hooked T'd it off the FPR line. Somehow my timing was set back to 15btdc with tps disconnected. Then took it out to see if how it would run. Ran like it use to but then my problem came back. Pulled into the drive way checked the timing and back to the orginal problem. can an exhaust leak cause this problem. I also noticed I have a leak between the turbo and the manifold. I will fix that this weekend.

[johngriff]

ok. The readings from the vacuum gauge were normal readings all the way around. Something happened though. I disconnected my vacuum/boost gauge from the T on the waste gate and hooked T'd it off the FPR line. Somehow my timing was set back to 15btdc with tps disconnected. Then took it out to see if how it would run. Ran like it use to but then my problem came back. Pulled into the drive way checked the timing and back to the orginal problem. can an exhaust leak cause this problem. I also noticed I have a leak between the turbo and the manifold. I will fix that this weekend.

That IS the problem.

If all the exhaust does not get to the turbine (or a loss of pressure via the leak), it will slow your expected turbine speed, making for lower boost, and lower CFM's coming through the MAF at idle. The "indirect result" of this the computer making changes to the timing while the tps is connected.

The TPS should only be disconnected to set timing. You shouldnt worry too much about timing with it pluged in, though, setting a baseline (like an average recorded value) could help you diagnose problems.

[GabeS14]

I have the same problem, i had a vacuum leak so pulled the turbo and ended replacing it with a gt2871r, so now no leaks , but i get no power,still almost as if the boost wasnt getting to the engine, i a not a tech but figured it as something to do with the timing.
I have -18 vacuum reading so i dont think i have any leaks?
I dont know how to adjust timing ,is this something that could be simple to fix?if i took it to a shop?
sorry to jump in with you on this Makulit054, but i think we have the same problem,earnie fixmer adjusted my timing a bit a while back and it got a little better, but that was before i fixed the leak, do u think i should take it back there to set timing again?

[johngriff]

What type of management do you have to accommodate the 2871r?

[makulit054]

No problem gabriel. Was your timing off? I know my timing is way off. But if i adjust the time i get all sorts of problems like backfiring and hesitation. I just pulled my turbo and manifold off tonight. I am in the process cleaning all the mating surfaces and replace the gaskets. I found that i had several exhaust leaks because of the carbon build up. The AIV pipe on turbo outlet was also cut and welded closed but there's two good size holes in the welds.

[GabeS14]

so first, I have Jim Wolfe Tech, tunning, (which also runs a little rich).

second, When i first realized timing was off i took it to earnie and he adjusted it a bit (i also got some back fire and it sounded like a damn subaru)
it got a little better, but at that time we didnt know i had the huge leak from the intake to the turbo pipe, so i was getting no boost.(and running so rich i would choke on the smell of gas)lol. my girl hated riding in my car.
so
I saw someone earlier, say that the ecu , when detecting that the engine is running rich due to a leak, i might adjust the timing on its own?right
maybe this happened to me so now that i fixed the leak i need to adjust timing again?

[makulit054]

The leak you had was on the intake of the turbo? Before i pulled my turbo, I placed my hand underneath the turbo and could feel the leak. Where on the turbo/manifold would cause that leak? I know there's the connection between the manifold-turbo, turbo-outlet pipe, intake-turbo and turbo-IC pipe. When I pulled my manifold, you could wiggle the turbo on the exhaust manifold and it did not take much to loosen the bolts. Two of the bolts were just finger tight. If it weren't for the tabs that held the bolts they would have rattled off.

[GabeS14]

[where the turbo connects to the manifold from the gasket probably,

[johngriff]

[where the turbo connects to the manifold from the gasket probably,

That will do it, that gasket ALWAYS has to be in tip top shape.

[makulit054]

Here's an update. I pulled the turbo and exhaust manifold and replaced the gaskets from the turbo-manifold and elbow to dp. I didn't feel any air leaking out but my timing is still off. I filled the radiator with coolant. During the process of burping the engine smoke or steam was coming from turbo. I thought it was just the residual coolant that leaked out when we took it apart. After a few minutes the smoke was gone. But i noticed white smoke coming from my exhaust along with condensation. This did wasn' t happening before we pulled the whole exhaust manifold. It just started. I haven't taken it out for a drive yet to see if it does it under load. The car starts up fine every time no problems with startup or idling. Could this be a blown turbo? Like I stated before, my timing is still way off. I need to get my car back on the road.

[makulit054]

ok. just checked again. no white smoke or condensation. My timing is normal at 15btdc. what the hell is going. I haven't taking my car out for a run yet. The last time, I took out my car when my timing was back to normal, the ecu set my timing back.

[makulit054]

ok. hopefully, i've solved my problem. Don't trust the readings from loop near the back of the block or the middle wire off the first coilpack unless you have a good connection. I finally used an old spark wire to check my timing. Timing is now set at 15*. The loss of power was due to the exhaust leaks. So, this just confirms that the loop and the middle wire doesn't give always give you the right signals.