Prepping the car for Paint....

[Gjohnson7]

Ok, this is the first time I've ever done and prep work or body work for paint and I have a few questions for you experienced guys out there. I starting the masking stage, but I'm trying to remove most of the molding on the car before I mask. My question is should I remove all molding on the car or is there some molding that is better left alone. Also, if I do remove all the molding, should I reuse it or buy new trim and molding for the car.

I am completely changing colors so I need to paint all the door jams and such. Also, the car is a 90 hatch back. Does it matter how old the molding is? Where would I buy new molding for the car, dealership?

[markyboi]

take off the side moulding, and never, ever put it back on again

[Jung918]

You can put a piece of rope under the molding. That way some of the paint can go underneath the molding.
It is really up to you if you want to replace the molding. Dealership is probably the only place to get them. It really starts to add up when you get new moldings though. I think it is around a grand for all new moldings. On the s14, you can get the rear quarter moldings. You have to buy the whole glass.

[nrg]

when you prep the car, you dont start off by masking stuff off. You start off by working on the body and making it smooth as glass. Just use a scuffing pad and 3M scuf-it and go down town with your car. Wet sanding with 1200 grit is only needed for surface primer (if you did some body work). Once that's all done, you would remove what you can; door handles, mirror, side molding, window molding, lights, etc.
There are some moldings that shouldn't be removed. Like the ones around your windshiled, rear windshield, and quarter panel windows. Those are/were installed when the windows were installed. Unless they're like the new cars that clip on. but we're talking about a old 240sx bucket. Just mask those molding VERY well.

[Gjohnson7]

Hmmm..... I borrowed my buddies Da sander and was told to pick up some 400 grit sandpaper to rough up the paint. I just thought I should mask off the glass and window molding trim before I started sanding.

So should my steps go as follows:

1. Sand the car and rough up the paint.
2. Hammer out dents or use body filler to make the body smooth
3. Remove most of the molding, side mirrors, door handels, anntena, etc
4. Mask off all other areas
5. Paint the car

Is this right?

[FRpilot]

seems like your order is a little messed up. i dont know how far you want to go for step 1. you can sand the car down to oem primer or go to bare metal. but you need to get ALL of the clear and base coats off. maybe step 1 should go between step 3 and 4 if you intend step 1 to be a majority of your prep work, but i dont if you were just just scuffing/removing paint at that stage to reveal things you want to take care of such as rust, dings, etc.

you should have a part about the actual sanding and prepping.. which includes: block, block, block, block, block, block, more sanding until the car is smooth. this is the step i think should go between 3 and 4. it is probably the most tedious part of prepping.

then you need to clean the surface off of all dust from sanding and actual dust from the air and all oils. use water and a little bit of soap. i hear comet/ajax works well after water/soap to remove all oils and get it absolutely clean. then spray your primer on.

for primer, you can also use a technique called 'shadowing' to check for waves in which after you spray the first layer of real primer on, you use rattle can primer to lightly spray over the real primer to reveal any imperfections and waves and block it at those certain spots to make it straight. then add your other coats of primer and shadow as necessary until you apply the required number of coats of primer needed.

thats as far as paint prep goes. but theres a lot of other variables concerned.
im most concerned about my health, odors/toxins, and overspray. overspray can get everywhere so make sure you have masked.

where are you painting? a garage? paint booth? dust, bugs, and everything becomes a factor. you can paint in a garage, but i rather make some type of paint booth. make sure to wet the floor and i hear buying a gardening sprinkler system outside your garage works well to keep the surface wet. the water helps attract dust away from your car. you also have to worry about overspray as it gets EVERYWHERE! mask everything, have a good ventilation system as the odors can give you a headache among other things. get some fans and furnance filters. the fans will provide air flow, and the filters will sift the overspray out of your garage and away from your neighbors property/houses.

what guns/compressor/water and dirt filtration system are you using? what kind of mask/air supply system are you using? certain compressors and guns are weak. you can use a mask with organic filter cartridges to paint and should be changed out after 8 hrs or when you start smelling odors from paint, but i dont trust those when it comes to my life/lungs. most paints have VOCs, odors, and ISOCYANATES which is a form of cyanide that is odorless and can get into your system through inhalation and absorbed in your skin. as you know, cyanide is really deadly where a few parts per million can kill you. people even recommended that when i mix paint that i have my full suit, breathing system, rubber gloves, and hood on. i use an air supply system that supplies fresh air into my mask. it is expensive, starting at about 400 but i would gladly pay that then shorten my life/risk my health.

what brand paint are you using?

[CantSTOP]

1. Clean the entire car inside to outside from dirt, dust ect.
2. Fix all dents
3. Sand the car down with #320 or Higher, use a block never sand with bare hands. Depending on how good the paint is you can just degloss it meaning take the clear off .
4. Take doors off scuff the jams
5. Take trunk off and scuff jams
6. scuff fender jams
7. mask jams to be spray
8. clean with "Final Clean" ask your paint store
9. Seal jams then Paint
10. Put everything back on
11. Reverse mask, jams
12. Take off to door handles, side mirror, etc to be spray seperate
13. Mask around filler spots
14. Spray primer filler over any filler aka bondo then sand down the primer filler to see any imperfection low spot, dents etc
15. If everything is good
16. Mask everything off that you dont want spray molding, mirrors, etc etc
17. For the roof where the molding of the wind shield meet put a shoe string or a speaker wire in there to lift that molding up so you can get paint in there
18. Clean with "Final Clean"
19. Shoot primer sealer
20. Then Paint
21. Remove masking
22. buff/Cut if needed

and BANG your DONE!!

[SexPanda]

Man im in the same boat. After a getting in a rear ender, I had to get a silvia front end... Anyhow, my cars primed right now, im just waiting to paint it. I got to tell you though, when wet sanding, dont cut corners. Take out the door handles, tape off all the trim with the GOOD maskingtape, not the 65 cent crap at wallmart, and i reccommend having some strait razors close by, to cut the tape perfectly, and to scrape off any accidental overspray. Anyhow, make sure when you sand you get everything, and do it a few times, just incase you missed anything. Primer will flake off a poorly prepaired surface (trust me lol). And dont be afraid about not having enough primer. Go to o'reillys or auto zone and get one of those big ass cans for 40 bucks. Its the same stuff most body shops use anyhow... I think i picked up a block, primer, sealer, sand paper and primer thinner all at o'reilly's for less than 100. And the paint is about the same price, unless you want to get the GOOD stuff... I just want my car to be 1 color again, so im getting the cheap stuff from autozone. Im not that concerned about show quality results.

When you sand your car down, your going to think to yourself: Shoud I be doing this?

when you prime your car, your going to realize why you got it in the first place

And when you paint your car, your going to fall in love with it all over again.

[Gjohnson7]

Thanks for the tips guys. Yes, I'm planning on Painting the car in my garage. I've never done any paint or body work, but I will be getting help from my neighbor. My neighbor works at American Airlines in Paint and fiberglass, so this is what he does all day every day.

As far as tools are concerned, I just picked up a Craftman 33 gallon air compressor last month and yesterday he lent me his 6 inch DA sander. So that's what I will be using for a majority of the sanding.

My neighbor has all of the painting guns and other tools. And i think he will want to use his compressor for the painting gun, since he has a 33 gallon 2 stage compressor.

As far as the paint is conerened, I want to do the best job posssible, but I don't forsee entering any kind of car shows. I will be changing paint color from the fire red that it currenlty is to Interlargos Blue (BMW).

[CantSTOP]

Use Dupont and is this a single stage or two stage?

[nrg]

FRpilot, you dont/shouldn't bring the paint down to the bare metal.
Gjohnson7, roughing up the paint is called "scuffing". scuffing pad and 3m scuff-it will do it's job. no need to run a DA with low grit on normal paint. a DA is great for sanding down surface primer. scuffing will take the clear coat off easily.

[Sir]

33gal 2 stage compressor might have issue putting out enough CFM for paint.
Taking care of moisture in the lines is important as well.

[Addicted2Kouki]

FRpilot, you dont/shouldn't bring the paint down to the bare metal.

you do if youre putting bondo.
with putty you can get away with sanding the paint down to 150grit.



other than that, i dont see anything wrong with all that was said to be done.

This was pretty much perfect-----
[after i did some rearranging to save time]

1. Clean the entire car inside to outside from dirt, dust ect.
---find all dents and door dings. mark.
2. Fix all dents with hammer and dolly if available.
---if not grind down to bare metal, clean, apply bondo.
---sand the bondo level with the rest of body panel
---primer about 6 inches around body work..[ make sure you DA about 8 inches around the body work so the primer will stick]
14. Spray primer filler over any filler aka bondo then sand down the primer filler to see any imperfection low spot, dents etc

3. Sand the car down with #320 or Higher, use a block never sand with bare hands. Depending on how good the paint is you can just degloss it meaning take the clear off .
15. If everything is good
16. Mask everything off that you dont want spray molding, mirrors, etc etc
4. Take doors off scuff the jams
5. Take trunk off and scuff jams
6. scuff fender jams
7. mask jams to be spray
8. clean with "Final Clean" ask your paint store
9. Seal jams then Paint
10. Put everything back on
11. Reverse mask, jams
12. Take off to door handles, side mirror, etc to be spray seperate



17. For the roof where the molding of the wind shield meet put a shoe string or a speaker wire in there to lift that molding up so you can get paint in there
18. Clean with "Final Clean"
19. Shoot primer sealer
20. Then Paint
21. Remove masking
22. buff/Cut if needed



i would know.... i took autobody and im prepping and painting my car this week.

[nrg]

if he does sand the car down to bare metal, then he should add more steps to his instructions. (why do you call it bond? o_O) If the body does go down to bare metal, body filler, sand it with a DA, primer, wet sand; ready for paint.

perfect undamaged, clean bare metal (ie: door skin, etc), can be covered with a sealer or scuffed and prep for paint.

filling in dents with body filler is RETARDED.
for dents; sand the area down with a circular air sander (the tiny one with the 3" disk), use a stud gun, some body work hammers and dolly, a slide hammer to pull on the stud. once done, fill it with body filler and sand with a DA, primer, wet sand; ready for paint.

I would know... i didn't take any auto body school. My dad has been doing auto body for over 30 years.

33gal 160psi pump is fine.

[Addicted2Kouki]

if he does sand the car down to bare metal, then he should add more steps to his instructions. (why do you call it bond? o_O) If the body does go down to bare metal, body filler, sand it with a DA, primer, wet sand; ready for paint.

---i thought i included those steps? and i meant bondo or any other body filler. it was a typo.

perfect undamaged, clean bare metal (ie: door skin, etc), can be covered with a sealer or scuffed and prep for paint.

---yes i know. i was talking about bare metal for the dents so the bondo has a better surface to stick to.

filling in dents with body filler is RETARDED.

---you do realize that was partially why it was invented right? other reason was because back then they filled dents with lead.

and filling in a BIG dent is retarded. not filling in a dent in general. depends on actually size and depth.

for dents; sand the area down with a circular air sander (the tiny one with the 3" disk)

---uhh yeahh.. grinder. i said that.
use a stud gun some body work hammers and dolly, a slide hammer to pull on the stud.

---i wasnt sure if he had access to a unispotter gun. i mean the cheap ones are about $100. but i didnt know if he bought one just to paint his car. which is why i didnt list it. and he doesnt know how to use one..."first time with any body work."

I would know... i didn't take any auto body school. My dad has been doing auto body for over 30 years.

---and what the hell dude. i wasnt saying you were wrong. why are you on my head about it?

you gave good advice. i just rearranged the listed one to save time in prepping.

no hostility. i come in peace. lol. i just wanted to add what i know.

:wavey:

[FRpilot]

i posted in my original post that you can go down to OEM primer or bare metal. im not going into super details, hold my hand, walk me through post. my post are already long enough as it is. im not going to get into any arguments.. i was going to list sandpaper grits to use at different stages of the paint job but now that someone has attacked me, i dont want to add fuel to the fire since it's not worth my time posting and trying to help people out. in other words, you're on your own. but i will add a few concluding comments/tips..

*never use higher than 600 grit sand paper on the sealer (which goes on after the primer) because your paint will have adhesion problems. 320 is seems fine. you can use 240 to 320 to 400 while doing guide coats/shadowing as you prep the primer for basecoat. some people recommend 400 but some people claim that you can see 400 scratch marks still. its up to you.

*i would never use orbital sander for prepping/stripping. i would use it for shaping filler and thats it. this is because orbitals leave swirl marks and you tend to "burn through" one spot or get uneveness. even if its for stripping, the swirl marks can be a hassle to sand flat. invest in a good DA for stripping. prepping would be done all by hand blocking in an "X" pattern. even bare fingers are bad as it can make waves, peaks and troughs, etc (just look at your fingers they are not perfectly flat). ALWAYS use a block.

*yes, you shouldnt fill big dents with bondo. you should try to pull them out as much as possible. if he has giant cd sized dents than i dont recommend filler, but with dents the size of a quarter you can fill with filler. tough shit pulling giant cd sized dents out without a studgun/slide hammer/welder. but like addicted2kouki, i didnt think this guy had access to a stud gun, welder, etc. he's using a small 30 gal compressor for god sakes, which can at most power lvlp guns but not a good hvlp gun that requires 13-15cfm. if your compressor is running on 110V, im sorry to tell you, but the most hp you can generate is about 3hp and around 8-9cfm (considering that every 4-5amps = 1hp). 30gal compressor is ok for occasional garage job if you like it charging/painting a single panel at a the time. a good 80gal 240V 5hp+ shop compressor can cost upwards of $800-2000+.

*you dont have to take the car down to bare metal. yes, it takes more time but people always recommend to me that i start fresh and fix other people's half assed jobs. you can just take off the clear and basecoat if you want, and prep/sand the existing primer. your dad can save time just getting the base/clear off since he works at a bodyshop, but i'm a hobbyist, work on my car with my free time, and like doing things to perfection. plus, im using a DA with 40-60grit to strip the paint so it's almost effortless, i dont mind going down to bare metal. also, dont use less than 80 grit on plastic abs bumpers. i would even go as high as 100-120 for stripping plastic bumpers as the scratch marks left on plastic can be a pita to repair.

*be sure to get air/water out of your lines. if you can't afford a good water/dirt filtration system, at least add a disposable filter at the gun which cost like $3-4. you can also build a basic system like this.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f386/jcquack/BODY%20AND%20PAINT/Misc/DSC03217.jpg

HF cheap shit filter that acts more like a wate reservior but works ($30) and m30 "toilet paper roll" 2nd stage filter for dirt $60 and add a ball filter at gun. will filter get you down to about .05 micron which is good enough for painting.

[Addicted2Kouki]

^^^word.


messagelength.

[Gjohnson7]

Thanks for all the excellent info guys. I've been going at it for a day or so scuffing all the paint.

You guys are right I don't have a stud gun to pull dents, but the body is in really good shape. I only have one problem area, which is my rear driverside fender and it will take so work to straighten out. Other than that, I have maybe 6 door dings.

[JohnD1079]

i dont wanna jack the Thread, but FRpilot, could you go into step my step details, bc i want to do this, and i dont have no experience at all this this kind of stuff, so it would be greatly appreciated