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RJF
07-11-2007, 10:49 AM
Cutting CO2 or a Sneak Attack on Porsche, Ferrari?

By Doron Levin

July 10 (Bloomberg) -- If one of the more extreme responses to global warming comes true, driving a sports car anywhere but on a racetrack might be relegated to history's dustbin.

Fast, powerful cars within a few years may be outlawed in Europe, an idea that has been raised ostensibly because Ferraris and Porsches produce too much carbon dioxide. For those who abhor sports cars as vulgar symbols of affluence (along with vacation homes, furs and fancy jewelry), such a ban could be a two-fer: Saving the planet while cutting economic inequality.

Who are these people anyway who decide on behalf of everyone what car is proper to drive? In the U.S. they're members of Congress, which is considering fuel-efficiency standards that will affect vehicle size. In Europe, it's the ministers and parliamentarians of the European Union, which wants to limit how much CO2 cars can emit as a proxy for a fuel- consumption standard.

Chris Davies, a British member of the European Parliament, is proposing one of the most-extreme measures -- a prohibition on any car that goes faster than 162 kilometers (101 miles) an hour, a speed that everything from the humble Honda Civic on up can exceed. He ridiculed fast cars as ``boys' toys.''

The proposed ban would take effect in 2013. Davies told the Guardian newspaper that ``cars designed to go at stupid speeds have to be built to withstand the effects of a crash at those speeds. They are heavier than necessary, less fuel-efficient and produce too many emissions.''

His last point is telling, even though there are many reasons why cars are heavier, including safety measures such as air bags and steel-reinforced crumple zones.

Focused on Cars

The idea is to limit CO2, a so-called greenhouse gas blamed for causing the earth's temperature to rise.

But the debate isn't just about how much carbon dioxide to allow into the atmosphere and whether the amount actually matters. It's also about disdain some hold for the size or speed of the cars others drive.

``Automobiles always seem to be the focus, even though they only consume 15 percent or 20 percent of energy,'' said Csaba Csere, editor of Car & Driver magazine. If politicians really cared about the atmosphere they might concentrate first on power plants or factories, he said.

The folks against sports cars in Europe and big sport utility vehicles in the U.S. often are same ones who hate McMansion-sized homes, corporate jets, jumbo freezers, yachts, 60-inch flat-screens TVs, overnight-delivery services and other trappings of Western-style wealth and energy use.

Do people demonize these goods because they can't afford them? Or because they think others shouldn't have them? Proposals to limit carbon dioxide often sound like basic opposition to prosperity and rising living standards.

Planet in Peril?

Outside of a handful of command economies, few today would agree that a central authority ought to regulate who owns what. But attacking those who ``waste'' energy achieves the same goal.

Many ardent environmentalists are convinced that the planet is in peril. Why can't they be just a bit cautious, humble or skeptical in their advocacy of reduced energy consumption, which in turn must mean reduced global economic growth?

The main reason I'm wary of Al Gore's call for radical, immediate reduction of worldwide energy consumption is that he's way too sure that the human race is on the cusp of catastrophe. With no credentials of his own, Gore relies on scientists who insist we must hurry because we're approaching a point of no return.

But how about other scientists, ones who aren't sure we're on the brink? Richard Lindzen of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a leading climatologist, says that even if nothing is done to limit CO2, the world will heat up by 1 degree Celsius, or a couple of degrees Fahrenheit, in the next 50 to 100 years.

Move Inland

We know from everyday experience that weather forecasting is a notoriously inexact. And if the world got a bit warmer there might be more arable land and longer growing seasons in northern latitudes. Is it heresy to suggest that if seas rise, moving back from the shore might be more practical than trying to change the weather?

The polar bear population, supposedly close to being wiped out, is ``not going extinct, or even appear to be affected at present,'' Mitchell Taylor of the Department of the Environment, Government of Nunavut, told the Toronto Star last year. One population in the eastern Arctic has grown to 2,100 from 850 since the mid-1980s, he said.

A half-century ago Rachel Carson popularized the modern environmental movement with ``The Silent Spring,'' a book claiming that the pesticide DDT was destroying America's wildlife. The book's impact was reduced use of the pesticide DDT, thereby leading to the unintended consequence of more mosquitoes and more malaria deaths in developing countries.

One Little Bite

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other health agencies noted an alarming rise of malaria in places like South Africa and Peru after DDT was banned in the late 1970s. Since the mid-1990s, when DDT spraying resumed, the incidence of the disease has fallen.

Calls for limits on carbon dioxide ignore a basic point. People are likely to be better judges of the benefits of fast cars, TVs, air conditioners, and jets than government planners.

Besides, the brunt of government limits on energy use may well fall on the world's poorest nations, which need more energy -- thus generating more carbon dioxide -- to provide lighting, refrigeration, harvesting, water purification and transportation.

What right do environmentalists in rich countries have to deny residents of poorer ones the benefits of higher living standards?

I have a hunch that a ban on sports cars won't be enacted soon in Europe, largely because the Italians love their Lamborghinis, the British their Bentleys and the Germans their Porsches. But this won't be the last time that anti-consumption crusaders come disguised as guardians of the Earth.

(Doron Levin is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

To contact the writer of this column: Doron Levin in Southfield, Michigan, at [email protected]

Last Updated: July 10, 2007 00:01 EDT

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aijQ0.2BMGw8&refer=home#

azndoc
07-11-2007, 10:59 AM
Excuse me while I write a letter to my congressman asking permission to take a piss.

deadpirate
07-11-2007, 11:02 AM
are you fricken kidding me??? Chris Davies, a British member of the European Parliament, is proposing one of the most-extreme measures -- a prohibition on any car that goes faster than 162 kilometers (101 miles) an hour, a speed that everything from the humble Honda Civic on up can exceed. He ridiculed fast cars as ``boys' toys.''


so we are banning a economy car now to?

Farzam
07-11-2007, 12:38 PM
How about this?

We have a series of tag team fights.

1 team will be congressmen...probably old ones.
1 team will be angry pro wrestlers who like their Hummers.

Whoever wins gets what they want.

SimpleSexy180
07-11-2007, 12:41 PM
Wow....

out of all the places...thats it just retarded.

you wouldnt see that idea in america trying to ban cars...

OH WAIT...getting pretty fucking close to that...

mRclARK1
07-11-2007, 12:42 PM
I had someone argue with me that ALL CO2 emissions should be regulated or stopped all together.

I then asked them if they meant natural or man made...

They responded ALL... including those that happen naturally. ALL CO2 IS BAD.

They didn't understand what I meant when I told them to stop breathing.

That's how dumb some of these extreme global warming activists are.

Farzam
07-11-2007, 12:52 PM
Humans are so silly.

The other day I was at my friend's house and I told her mom about how I wanted to drive her car and she said okay and then my friend explained why I couldn't drive and then her mom said "you need to stop lying."

First of all...

-You just based by me saying I want to drive that i'd be able to.
-You blindly took my side. You didn't ask for information or anything. You assumed.
-I didn't lie, you just fooled yourself.

Silly Americans.

USA ALL THE WAY USA ALL THE WAY

Matej
07-11-2007, 01:05 PM
I hope Earth dies as soon as possible because humans are getting dumber and dumber.

mRclARK1
07-11-2007, 02:48 PM
Excuse me while I write a letter to my congressman asking permission to take a piss.

"I have receieved your written request, asking permission of the state to proceed with urination.

I regret to inform you, that at this time, I am unable to grant your request. I can only assume you are aware of the serious nature of the pollution problem plaguing our global society, and for me to allow you to perform this gross act of enviromental negligence and harm, would be a failure upon myself as a congressman, to act responsibley on behalf of those who elected me to this office.

Thank you,

Your Congressman"

:keke:

So work is slow today...

bamaboy
07-11-2007, 04:56 PM
I hope Earth dies as soon as possible because humans are getting dumber and dumber.

Do your self a favor and go first, you have our blessings......idiot

steve shadows
07-11-2007, 05:01 PM
this is what you get, when Al Gore gets political Momentum...

Fucking bullshit

speaking of which.

That "Live Earth" tour...how many fucking TOUR BUSES and TRUCKS and VANS and Machinery were used to set up those fucking concerts?

Probably more than 1000 ferrarris burning gas for 1 week.

F**K!

Can we all move to mars or something?

steve shadows
07-11-2007, 05:05 PM
I had someone argue with me that ALL CO2 emissions should be regulated or stopped all together.

I then asked them if they meant natural or man made...

They responded ALL... including those that happen naturally. ALL CO2 IS BAD.

They didn't understand what I meant when I told them to stop breathing.

That's how dumb some of these extreme global warming activists are.

thats fucking hysterical...being that we would die if there was no C02. Anyone who's gotten through 5th grade understand basic photo-synthesis I hope

Did you know that C02 is actually regulated by the Ocean Life-form die out rate and its a cyclical cycle that has hardly anything to do with burning fossil fuels? Thats right kids jack shit. When the ocean releases more oxygen in die off or non-die off phases and gasses from the deep sea trenches, the Organic life on earth adjusts in C02 Consumption or vise versa.

Im probably not explaining this 100% right because Im full of rage right now.

There is a new book out on the subject a scientist who i getting black balled like all the others who are raising questions about the validity of People murdering Earth scario that all the Climate of fear fucks love to push on earthlings.

im out of here, bouncing in my space ship in 5 years peace out bitches. :D

Matej
07-11-2007, 05:05 PM
Do your self a favor and go first, you have our blessings......idiot
Lol Mr. Serious. :)

steve shadows
07-11-2007, 05:09 PM
"I have receieved your written request, asking permission of the state to proceed with urination.

I regret to inform you, that at this time, I am unable to grant your request. I can only assume you are aware of the serious nature of the pollution problem plaguing our global society, and for me to allow you to perform this gross act of enviromental negligence and harm, would be a failure upon myself as a congressman, to act responsibley on behalf of those who elected me to this office.

Thank you,

Your Congressman"

:keke:

So work is slow today...

your joking right?

if not im going ahead with my plan to buy a tiny atol turn it into a race track with a giant cocaine cartle style villa and disapear forever.

GoodOl'S13
07-11-2007, 07:22 PM
I think their wifes wont let them buy the "..fast cars (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=149993#) as ``boys' toys.''
This will never go through, right... :ugh: never

unwed_transient
07-11-2007, 07:39 PM
proof positive that socialist liberals think the average person is ill-equipped to make his or her own decisions and that the government is the cure to all ills.

it's only a matter of time before this kind of nonsense happens here.

ron paul '08

eastcoastS14
07-11-2007, 07:53 PM
lol I love that the source for this is bloomberg news...hmm Im sure its not right wing biased at all. I dont understand why people are so against cutting down thier emissions. The whole people are jealous of affulence argument is total BS. The truth is that with growing industry of the last century the worlds population has continued to ommit more CO2 and carbon monoxide than ever before. The conservatives in this country, like the one who wrote this article, tell us to dismiss science and that the advocates for emissions cutbacks have no basis for argument. This is also mainly because scientists cant point to an exact date and say this is when global warming will harm us...this day on this year etc etc. Scientists are vague about this just like weather forecasts are because there is no definite answer but that doenst mean it should be dismissed as untrue. The truth is its not going to kill you to not be able to drive an SUV, so many people in this country are opposed to being told what to do, we waste so much in the US and it does not have to be this way...there are only about 300million people in the US and 6billion people in the world but we consume a total of 40% of the worlds oil. So heres a grand fucking idea......How about.......we look for alternative fuels. That way we can reduce our emissions output, lower the price of fuel at the pump (because after all the high price of oil is due to the fact that the price is set by foriegn countries we are forced to deal with to obtain it) and everyone can keep their sports cars....which I think placing a ban on is pretty ridiculous anyway, taking into account the percentage of the worlds population that actually owns them. Wouldnt that be great? driving a ferarri that runs off corn oil home grown right here in the US, shit with no importation taxes and what not you could fill your tank at a fraction of the cost. So everyone stop blaming the government and liberals and all that bullshit for a second...accept the fact that global warming may be a potential problem and that perhaps finding fuel solutions might help rather than hurt

Enjin
07-11-2007, 07:58 PM
I think there are a lot less FREAKEN LAME ways to cut pollution and CO2 emission than take away cars from people that need them to get some poontang.

hypothesis: taking away rich people's cars result in a lesser quality of rich people offspring, thus lowering the human race. just take away 72 caprices or something that burn gas like icecream and burn oil like... shit theres just lots of blue smoke.

mRclARK1
07-11-2007, 08:12 PM
I think the whole global warming thing is BS. There's lots of scientists who say it's happening... there's also lots who say it isn't. Some of them even made a movie. Can't remember it's name, but it was a response to Al Gores film. I've seen both, and the one against global warming happening, presented it's arguements way better, with more data IMHO.

It's great to care about the enviroment, and sure, why not cut your emissions? I just think the problem is blown out of proportion, or not even there in the first place.

steve shadows
07-11-2007, 09:04 PM
lol I love that the source for this is bloomberg news...hmm Im sure its not right wing biased at all. I dont understand why people are so against cutting down thier emissions. The whole people are jealous of affulence argument is total BS. The truth is that with growing industry of the last century the worlds population has continued to ommit more CO2 and carbon monoxide than ever before. The conservatives in this country, like the one who wrote this article, tell us to dismiss science and that the advocates for emissions cutbacks have no basis for argument. This is also mainly because scientists cant point to an exact date and say this is when global warming will harm us...this day on this year etc etc. Scientists are vague about this just like weather forecasts are because there is no definite answer but that doenst mean it should be dismissed as untrue. The truth is its not going to kill you to not be able to drive an SUV, so many people in this country are opposed to being told what to do, we waste so much in the US and it does not have to be this way...there are only about 300million people in the US and 6billion people in the world but we consume a total of 40% of the worlds oil. So heres a grand fucking idea......How about.......we look for alternative fuels. That way we can reduce our emissions output, lower the price of fuel at the pump (because after all the high price of oil is due to the fact that the price is set by foriegn countries we are forced to deal with to obtain it) and everyone can keep their sports cars....which I think placing a ban on is pretty ridiculous anyway, taking into account the percentage of the worlds population that actually owns them. Wouldnt that be great? driving a ferarri that runs off corn oil home grown right here in the US, shit with no importation taxes and what not you could fill your tank at a fraction of the cost. So everyone stop blaming the government and liberals and all that bullshit for a second...accept the fact that global warming may be a potential problem and that perhaps finding fuel solutions might help rather than hurt

Concerving FUEL should be the focus.

because of our cluster fucked foriegn policy and infinte future of terrorist breeding we have poured gas onto with our optimistic efforts of creating stability there.

Throwing out "THE SCIENCE"

there is no fucking science, there is measurments and picutres used as propoganda of glacial meting in the last 100 years.

If you look at 1917, temperature records on the coastal areas of the united states and world wide in trading cities were on average 5% higher.

Which is huge.

The problem is everyone has a different reason for supporting the hype for global warming"

The republicans are back handedly supporting the climate of fear in order to lag out and draw out support for the amero plan or for totally unrestricted trade between us and the rest of north amer, central and south, for hopes of increasing industrial ouput. You need global unity for this. Golbal fear of some shit that isnt even tangible.

no proovable
no even testable
no hypothesis can even come close to predicting a forcast right now.

and yet 1 out of 10 movies is the end of the world climate change bullshit.

Conserve for the sake of energy efficency and short term enviornmental effects will come with it.

But if the earth farts it farts.

All the nukes detonating all at once would still not destroy the atmosphere IIRC they did a hypothetical on it, we would all die but atmosphere would still be operational just not much living.

k's_silvia2.0
07-11-2007, 09:08 PM
Well I guess the older you get the more
of a narc you become."BOY TOYS"I love it.

steve shadows
07-12-2007, 09:56 AM
and why the fuck cant i spell

sorry pardon my turkish

Yuri
07-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Going after performance cars is ridiculous.
It seriously makes no sense, other than trying to display power.

If you outlaw all cars that get bad gas mileage, who will be able to save us from the barbarians in the wastelands?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Yurikaze/mad-maxcopy.jpg