How To Weld An Open Differential

[Mlogue84]

This will be my first attempt at welding a diff and giving instructions regarding the steps i took.

I am going to start by assuming you already took the diff off of your 240.

1. Start by removing the 8 (14mm) bolts holding the diff casing on.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/27.jpg


2. Remove the 4 (17mm) bolts holding the Ring gear/ Axle assembly down.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/25.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/23.jpg


3. Next take a hammer and a block of wood and hit the axles out. Make sure to turn the axle after each hit to evenly take out the axle.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/22.jpg


4. Pull the Axle/ Ring gear assembly out of the casing. There is a pressed on bearing that you need to reassemble when you put it back together. There is a spacer as well on the ring gear side. This is the way it goes.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/21.jpg


5. Next step is to take off the ring gear. Use a prybar to generate the resistance needed to break the bolts loose.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/20.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/19.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/18.jpg


6. Completely rid the spider gears of any trace of oil. My choice was a couple cans of carb cleaner.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/17.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/16.jpg


7. Next cover the pressed on bearing with something durable, My choice was a pair of leather gloves.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/15.jpg


8. It is important to heat up the metal to get a good penetration for the weld. Use your torch / plasma cutter to heat it up.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/14.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/13.jpg


9. Commence welding. Some people prefer to use a bolt and jam it in there, But I didn't think that was good enough. I colpletely filled in the entire joint on all four sides and partially the middle *BE CAREFUL NOT TO RUIN THE THREADS THAT THE AXLES SLIDE INTO!* Turn it over and do the same thing to the other side of the joints.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/12.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/11.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/10.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/9-1.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/8.jpg Some of those as you could probably tell are during pictures.


10. You need to get rid of all the little splatters in the assembly so they don't break loose and get in your bearings or between gears and mess something up. I reccommend getting it sand blasted. This is what it looks like after sand blasting.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/7copy.jpg


11. Assemble all of your parts, organize and clean them.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/6-2.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/3-2.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/2-3.jpg


12. Follow the instruction backwards and put it all back together. You need to put medium grade loctite on your ring gear bolts and the 2 main bolts holding the assembly into place. Don't worry about lubing quite yet.


13. Follow the torque specs for putting it all back together. I called my local pepboys then went down and got a print out.


14. Make sure to stop by nissan and get a new gasket, and use your gasket sealer!


15. Finally, use 80-90 gear oil at least to refill your new welded diff. Everything is sealed and self lubricating so, fill and put the fill bolt back in and you're off!

[Zetto*]

Great write up, good details.
+rep

[opponheimer]

Nice job! Good info, great pics.

[thatdrifterguy]

i didnt have to take it all out. just took out the cover then got it welded

[Mlogue84]

i didnt have to take it all out. just took out the cover then got it welded

You mean you took it somewhere and someone else welded it?

[blu808]

Nice write up. That should hold a mildly powered car. We have welded over 240 diffs from all around the country, and not one of them has broken using our process.

I like how carefull you were with all the parts, and how you cleaned everything correctly. :bigok:

More faq on welded diffs here.

http://www.sdp-online.com/wlfaq.php

[thatdrifterguy]

You mean you took it somewhere and someone else welded it?
something like that. my welder broke halfway through. k sorry. maybe they did take it apart.:bowdown:

[Mlogue84]

something like that. my welder broke halfway through. k sorry. maybe they did take it apart.:bowdown:

What a pain, I hate starting something and not being able to finish. How is it holding up?

[thatdrifterguy]

i'd say its doing real good. i havent checked on it since i got it. ive had mine since feb. and i dont notice anything wrong. it should hold up pretty long as long as you did the welds good. but i think it does some to the trans mounts. you know how the wheels hop on some corners, well, my tranny hops a little sometimes:duh:

[Jonnie Fraz]

Nice write up...and if Luke said you did an ok job you better believe it. I had to repair a botched weld job and I imitated Lukes weld lock 3. 400+hp and she is still holding.

[Mlogue84]

Thats what I like to hear... I'm bolting it up tomorrow night, I'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes.

[ECR33S14]

thats a fantastic write up. well informed.

[Enjin]

doing it tomorrow! great writeup!

[Mlogue84]

This is definetly the best upgrade yet... So predictable! I'm so stoked! The best part is that there's no "clunk" noise or "jerky" feel like most of the two ways i've felt and heard. It's super quiet and I love that! Feels so much better too!

['90RPS13]

Great writeup man. Soon I will be doing mine.

[gotta240]

I also had the gear welded to the carrier. I don't think it is necessary to remove the gears from the carrier either... to each his own.

[NemeGuero]

Nice write up. That should hold a mildly powered car. We have welded over 240 diffs from all around the country, and not one of them has broken using our process.

I like how carefull you were with all the parts, and how you cleaned everything correctly. :bigok:

More faq on welded diffs here.

http://www.sdp-online.com/wlfaq.php


lol @ plug

[ch1873857]

dude. did you say use a torch or plasma cutter to heat it up? excellent write up though. im trying to sell my kaaz 2 way so i can buy a welder and weld my own among other things. for future reference, a plasma cutter uses a tungsten electrode similar to that of a tig torch just smaller. once the arc is struck a highly pressurized gas gets turned into plasma. no heating just straight cutting.

[Irukandji]

I like how you sandblasted it... great attention to detail

[gotta240]

I also don't know about heating the diff up so much. My welder(by living) said that you dont want to heat it up TOO MUCH as it can warp the gears... Again, jmo.

[98koukile]

But the gears... they are welded together, aka they don't need to mesh because they are stuck in place

[Mlogue84]

dude. did you say use a torch or plasma cutter to heat it up? excellent write up though. im trying to sell my kaaz 2 way so i can buy a welder and weld my own among other things. for future reference, a plasma cutter uses a tungsten electrode similar to that of a tig torch just smaller. once the arc is struck a highly pressurized gas gets turned into plasma. no heating just straight cutting.

Use your torch then. Thats what I used, I didn't know that about plasma cutters.

I also don't know about heating the diff up so much. My welder(by living) said that you dont want to heat it up TOO MUCH as it can warp the gears... Again, jmo.

If anything the heat would make them smaller, but not likely.... None the less, like 98koukile said, They're going to be welded together so why not especially because you want the best possible penetration for durability.

[babowc]

Use your torch then. Thats what I used, I didn't know that about plasma cutters.



If anything the heat would make them smaller, but not likely.... None the less, like 98koukile said, They're going to be welded together so why not especially because you want the best possible penetration for durability.

Heat EXPANDS objects.
Cold CONTRACTS things.

[ch1873857]

who cares, in a welded diff you are using your ring and pinion only. the ring isnt on the diff when hes heating it up therefor no harm was done.

[Mlogue84]

Heat EXPANDS objects.
Cold CONTRACTS things.

You're right heat does expand things, but when metal cools it will be smaller than before.

[atutt]

Heating the gears is unnecessary unless they were made out of cast iron. Or, unless you have a lower amperage welder that runs on 120v or less. any 220v+ welder with at least 100 amps would be more than sufficient for this. Also, if you were to use flux-core or metal-core you would get much much better penetration than MIG w/ sheilding gas. Also heating it without knowing how to properly compensate for your settings will most likely create undercut. If you get undercut you will mostlikely snap the welds along with a gear tooth or two.

[ch1873857]

ahhh..his welds are great. you want real penetration, get some 5/32 7018 at about 150 amps and let it burn. :fruit:

[atutt]

/\/\A little overkill don'tcha think? lol

[ch1873857]

never.

oolijdsfoa

[gotta240]

i wasn't implying warpage of the spider gears... I was talking about heat transfer to the ring and pinion.... Not dissing...just offering opinions.

[Mlogue84]

i wasn't implying warpage of the spider gears... I was talking about heat transfer to the ring and pinion.... Not dissing...just offering opinions.

Good thought, i guess just don't get all crazy with the heating up, just good enough to penetrate well. But like was mentioned earlier, if you have a sweet welder then i guess thats all you need....? I just played it safe and made sure to penetrate, and then covered my ass by filling the whole joints up on all sides.

[atutt]

/\/\ By all means you didn't do anything wrong at all. It's just that if you're not careful with the pre-heating you could do more harm than good without even realizing it. Then again should a weld crack or snap, it's only an open diff and I'm sure they're just as abundant in the states as they are here in Canada eh?

[Mlogue84]

/\/\ By all means you didn't do anything wrong at all. It's just that if you're not careful with the pre-heating you could do more harm than good without even realizing it. Then again should a weld crack or snap, it's only an open diff and I'm sure they're just as abundant in the states as they are here in Canada eh?

This is true... Thanks for the advice.

[ch1873857]

if anything i would heat it afterward. if you have at least a 230volt input machine, it will penetrate perfectly without preheating (ive never had to do that) except when i was welding a crack aluminum wheel. my instructor told me. heating a weld afterward will help relieve stress. when you make multiple welds on a single workpiece it will create stress because welds pull the legs together. probably not a problem here but it would definately make them stonger. also i would NOT quench the welds afterward. quenching metal at that temperture would make the metal hard and brittle. weld it, heat it and let it cool, or just let it cool.

[Mlogue84]

Another great tip, I never thought of that, next time I will do that. Thanks ch.

[Mlogue84]

Has anyone ever heard of once you install a 2 way or welded diff... you notice how off your alignment is? My car pulls kinda hard to one side now?

[surge s14]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/10.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/9-1.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/marklogue/8.jpg
ive seen too many diffs break for this type welding on a diff
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/surges14/diffweld.jpg
this is do it

[Mlogue84]

What are you tryin to say, That mine is good or bad?

That diff looks so sloppy.

[surge s14]

no its good but my friend has a 600hp 1001tq turbo diesel truck we used the same thing to weld his diff and its held up
also his 320hp sr20
sloppy but works

[Mlogue84]

So how did you go about doing the whole bolt thing? Did you use a certain strength bolt?

[sportcars14a]

ive seen too many diffs break for this type welding on a diff
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u17/surges14/diffweld.jpg
this is do it

Dude wow, you might as well just throw some sticks into a bucket that looks like garbage. I don't care if it holds up, if I knew I had a pile of crap like that inside my car I would push it off a cliff. I think Logues welds will hold up they look legit, yours on the other hand look a little overboard. After I get done welding my diff the right way you can have my scraps if you want to make another one of your pos diffs.

[surge s14]

So how did you go about doing the whole bolt thing? Did you use a certain strength bolt?
high temp tranny bolts
awesome write up btw


Dude wow, you might as well just throw some sticks into a bucket that looks like garbage. I don't care if it holds up, if I knew I had a pile of crap like that inside my car I would push it off a cliff. I think Logues welds will hold up they look legit, yours on the other hand look a little overboard. After I get done welding my diff the right way you can have my scraps if you want to make another one of your pos diffs.
if presentation is all you want then go buy an lsd and quit bitchen. i think his would hold its own too but id rather know what works ... when you start crying about your diff breaking down :jerkit:

[ch1873857]

god after seeing those welds i feel like a master welder...not to dis or anything but wow sloppy is an understatement.

[Jonnie Fraz]

Like I said earlier" If Luke said you did a decent job then take that to the bank." I realy like how you went through and sandblasted the gears and diff.
Spatter and slag can work lose and cause problems later.
Like ch1873857 said "Do not quench!" The one I welded stayed hot for over an hour...I just let it cool down.
I would not say that the above are sloppy welds, the clean up is a little lackluster. These things have been soaked in gear oil for 13 plus years, the oil will screw with your welds. Cleaning is key, heating the gears up probilly helped burn some of that off also.

[sportcars14a]

if presentation is all you want then go buy an lsd and quit bitchen. i think his would hold its own too but id rather know what works ... when you start crying about your diff breaking down :jerkit:


I was just messin with you, nice welds.

[ch1873857]

These things have been soaked in gear oil for 13 plus years, the oil will screw with your welds. Cleaning is key, heating the gears up probilly helped burn some of that off also.

very true. probably what happened in his case. or a shitty machine. but that spatter wont be fun just hope your drain plug catches it all. probably nothing to worry about.

[gotta240]

There is a air tool that has a much of metal bristles on it.. It is meant to break all that splatter loose so it wont come loose while you are driving.

The tool prolly costs 30 bucks and makes cleaning splatter super easy.

[ch1873857]

or...you...could weld it right to begin with. spatter? arc length or to much heat. if your using mig turn your wire speed down and your voltage to compensate, make sure the contact stays within 1/8" of the workpiece at all times. stick, definately arc length, that looks like some of my first 1/8" 6010 when i had it cranked to 110amps. no no. and tig? no, no spatter there, maybe porosity if anything due to contaminated metal.

never understood the bolt thing. why? i mean your trying to make it as solid as possible. adding bolts is just not necessary imo

[240silviaguy]

with so many people welding their diffs why doesnt someone sell a spool?:barf:

[kanagawa_kouki]

Alright, I have one question. Is there any noticeable noise at all coming from your welded diff? or is it completely silent? I'm looking to do this, to maybe hold off on buying a 2 way so I can save up more money.

One more... can you elaborate a little bit more on where to weld in the middle of the diff?...

Thanks in advance.

[Mlogue84]

Alright, I have one question. Is there any noticeable noise at all coming from your welded diff? or is it completely silent? I'm looking to do this, to maybe hold off on buying a 2 way so I can save up more money.

One more... can you elaborate a little bit more on where to weld in the middle of the diff?...

Thanks in advance.

I can't speak for others, but I can tell you that mine is completely quiet, and no poping or clunking like a 2 way, so I like it better. I took the ol' s13 out for a spin last night and it performed so beautifully. I was on it for a good 45 minutes or so and it held up perfectly, Nice and solid. As far as welding the middle goes... it's more of a few spot welds all around the inside where the gears have already meshed. It was kinda hard for me to get in there, i mean without risking damage to the threads where the axles slide into, so be kinda careful. Do what you're comfortable with and good luck. Let me know how it turns out...

[kamikazekid]

thats good shit bro. the pictures help. thanks

[opponheimer]

Can anyone offer a testimonial of using an open diff as a DD car? is it unrealistic for a car that will be making 350 mile trips a couple times a month?

[steve shadows]

there should be a thread on HOW NOT TO WELD an open diff.

Its one of the dumbest things ive seen as a fad lately.

Imo it totally assfucks handling and predictability but anything to "mad tyte sideways" yo.

god I hate drifting.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

there should be a thread on HOW NOT TO WELD an open diff.

Its one of the dumbest things ive seen as a fad lately.

Imo it totally assfucks handling and predictability but anything to "mad tyte sideways" yo.

god I hate drifting.

Yes it does assfuck handling, my car almost never understeered before I put my welded diff in and now it does.
It makes your car try to go in a strait line because the rear inside tire wants to go the same speed as the outside, causing understeer. However you can adjust your driving technique to compensate for it and at corner exit, it feels like it really lays down the power better.

The only time it has really really bothered me was while driving fast in a high speed, decreasing radius 55ish sweeper. At turn in it understeered, then I lifted a little to induce a little oversteer, then got back in the gas and it undered again, and sort of did a little dance. Its unnerving, but not the end of the world imo, but probably will cause shitty driver to run off cliffs or into oncoming traffic. I think the worst part of having it is in freshly paved parking lots when ur tires squeal like a jackass at 5mph, that and backing up and turning, it sounds like your running over dead bodies.

[steve shadows]

yeah, Im going to pick up another 1.5way for this car.

Im just not a fan of the welded diff.

Helical diff is a good compromise for money for lower power cars.

[Silverstreek]

ok, i know this is a really old thread, but i did a search and didn't see an answer to my question. i'm just wondering, i bought a open diff of a local guy (just the diff, not the entire pumpkin, so no ring gear, caps, axles, shims, etc). i sent it to blu808 and had it welded. now what i want to do is take off my stock pumpkin, pull out the stock open diff and put in the welded one. so what would i need besides a new cover gasket, gasket sealer and thread lock? will the shim(s)/spacer (if there even are any) from the stocker work with this welded one? and should i get any other parts (like do the axles have a seal and if so, should i get new ones since i'll have them out). i've swapped complete rear ends before, but never messed with disassembling and reassembling one. i really don't want to and don't really have any way to take it somewhere and have somebody else do this. i'd like to do it myself, never gonna learn if i don't try.

[Xracer]

Im just curious, has anybody ever actually broken their welded diff before? Ive done a a few diffs so far. One of the cars was a 350hp RB S13 rockin 285's on the back. no problems.

[Sean14]

I saw one break at the track. In a track setting, it wasn't that big a deal, just sourced a new diff real quick and threw it in track side. Now had it been on the street... that would have been an issue.

I'm not hating either, I have a welded.

[Silverstreek]

ok, i know this is a really old thread, but i did a search and didn't see an answer to my question. i'm just wondering, i bought a open diff of a local guy (just the diff, not the entire pumpkin, so no ring gear, caps, axles, shims, etc). i sent it to blu808 and had it welded. now what i want to do is take off my stock pumpkin, pull out the stock open diff and put in the welded one. so what would i need besides a new cover gasket, gasket sealer and thread lock? will the shim(s)/spacer (if there even are any) from the stocker work with this welded one? and should i get any other parts (like do the axles have a seal and if so, should i get new ones since i'll have them out). i've swapped complete rear ends before, but never messed with disassembling and reassembling one. i really don't want to and don't really have any way to take it somewhere and have somebody else do this. i'd like to do it myself, never gonna learn if i don't try.


anybody??????

[kyo_kun187]

+1 rep for you! Great Detail on it!

[exitspeed]

ok, i know this is a really old thread, but i did a search and didn't see an answer to my question. i'm just wondering, i bought a open diff of a local guy (just the diff, not the entire pumpkin, so no ring gear, caps, axles, shims, etc). i sent it to blu808 and had it welded. now what i want to do is take off my stock pumpkin, pull out the stock open diff and put in the welded one. so what would i need besides a new cover gasket, gasket sealer and thread lock? will the shim(s)/spacer (if there even are any) from the stocker work with this welded one? and should i get any other parts (like do the axles have a seal and if so, should i get new ones since i'll have them out). i've swapped complete rear ends before, but never messed with disassembling and reassembling one. i really don't want to and don't really have any way to take it somewhere and have somebody else do this. i'd like to do it myself, never gonna learn if i don't try.

First, why would are replacing the welded diff with an open one?

Second, if you are getting an open diff why not leave it in the pumpkin it's in and just swap the whole thing. Swapping internals is going to be a whole lot more work.

Third, if you do for some reason just my the internals of an open diff and do want to swap internals, that is not going to effect the outside of the pumpkin at all.

I hope I understood what you were saying and answered your question.

[Silverstreek]

oh, no see i bought an open diff (just the internal part) and had it welded by luke. now i'm wanting to put it in my stock pumpkin. not replace my welded diff with an open.

[exitspeed]

oh, no see i bought an open diff (just the internal part) and had it welded by luke. now i'm wanting to put it in my stock pumpkin. not replace my welded diff with an open.

That won't change anything on the outside of the pumpkin. Just swap internals, and put the diff back in that way it was. Done.

[TheArkitekt]

follow the FSM instructions for re installation of the internals in regards to torque specs and rotational specs of the actual diff.

[Silverstreek]

great, sounds good. and there's no seals or anything like that i need to pick up right? with the exception of a new gasket, gasket maker and thread lock.

[TheArkitekt]

when i reassembled mine i replaced the two bearings, rubber seals on the output shafts, and the diff seal

[Silverstreek]

cool, thanks alot guys. i'll let ya know how it turns out.

[LA_phantom_240]

You're right heat does expand things, but when metal cools it will be smaller than before.

Um... That doesn't make any sense. By that logic, after 150k miles, my KA should look like a Geo Metro motor... if it shrinks down smaller every time it cools.

[Mlogue84]

When you heat metal with a torch to the point when it's red hot and then cool it rapidly, it will shrink. It is commonly used in repairing body damage on cars, where metal has become weak. See this video as a reference on how and when metal shrinks. It's not logic, It's science. Thanks, I lol'd at the metro joke.

http://www.youtube.com/v/mptiiRLEJs0&hl=en