FMIC Confusion... bar-plate vs. tube-fin?

[AdamP]

I need to get a FMIC pretty quickly because the sidemount is just not cutting it in the summer hear.

I have my eyes set on one of the Greddy kits. Mainly I'm looking at the Spec-M and Spec-V. The Spec-M is a hell of a lot cheaper. From my understanding this is a bar-plate design and it is made in China whereas the Spec-V is a tube-fin and is made in Japan.

From what I have read around the bar-plate design is more efficient and rugged when it comes to road debris. The tube-fin design will be a little lighter and it will be less restrictive ambiently.

I'm reading the Greddy website and I quote:
The V-spec and R-Spec cores are a lightweight air-to-air, tube and fin design with a highly efficient tube design, which allows smooth ambient flow for optimum heat dissipation and flow to engine cooling systems. Although only offered in very limited sizes, the M-Spec core is an economical compromise that has performance, which lies between the free flowing V-spec. and the extreme cooling potential of the R-Spec.

My main question is then...
-What is the logic of getting the V is the M has better performance (from what the Greddy writeup indicates) and is cheaper?
-Should I take IC pressure efficiency into consideration? I'm only running 7psi right now but the car bogs like hell when it is hot out.

I was originally set on the M-Spec due to my budget but there is a shop locally that is blowing out the V-Spec kits for $800CAD which I think is a decent price (let me know if I should just get the V-Spec due to the price). The kits on eBay sell for about $400 + $100 shipping for the Type-M's... so after conversion, brokerage I am looking at about $650 or so which is swaying me to get the V.

[Phlip]

This site has some good information about Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin intercoolers:
http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
... I'd found it a while back and started a thread about it, but that was early last year

[DJ_Sunrise]

from endless reading what everything apparently has come down to..

bar+plate= heavy, less efficient, but cheaper. higher flow capacity. aka, u need a smaller bar + plate intercooler to match a tube and fin. much more durable.

tube+fin= lightweight, more efficient, expensive. worst enemy is highway shit that gets flund at it. much less pressure drop. there was a big review of 8 or 10 intercoolers on an s13 with SR. the tube and fin came out on top. blitz lm fmic kit came in 1st.. induced air was only 2 degrees fahrenheit warmer than induced air.

im sure if you were to build a 500+ hp car, bar + plate would be a wise choice. until then, rock the tube and fin. actually. rock the Blitz LM kit. my favvvvvorite.

-Bart

[MomentumGT]

from endless reading what everything apparently has come down to..

bar+plate= heavy, less efficient, but cheaper. higher flow capacity. aka, u need a smaller bar + plate intercooler to match a tube and fin. much more durable.

tube+fin= lightweight, more efficient, expensive. worst enemy is highway shit that gets flund at it. much less pressure drop. there was a big review of 8 or 10 intercoolers on an s13 with SR. the tube and fin came out on top. blitz lm fmic kit came in 1st.. induced air was only 2 degrees fahrenheit warmer than induced air.

im sure if you were to build a 500+ hp car, bar + plate would be a wise choice. until then, rock the tube and fin. actually. rock the Blitz LM kit. my favvvvvorite.

-Bart

Bart, you got a link to that review? Sounds like some good read.

-Jon

[AdamP]

I see... I was kind of swaying towards the Spec-V (readily available). I'm pretty sure for my goals it would be fine ~300rwhp.
Any solutions for highway shit getting flung at it? Would mesh block out most of the large debris that would damage it, without blocking airflow too much?

[Adam496]

Maybe try this fmic for a tube+fin less expensive alternative.
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=144069

[DJ_Sunrise]

FMIC's are the kinda shit you buy name brand. Buy HKS, ARC, Blitz, Greddy, etc.. there is a ton of engineering to the dynamics of a FMIC. I can not remember where the review is.. I had it saved on my other PC which is kinda busted at the moment, but I will search for it. Regardless of which kit you go with, buy 4-ply silicone couplings, and t-bolt clamps. Many Supra guys run Extreme Turbo Systems couplings and clamps. If their stuff is good enough for 1000hp Supras, it's good enough for my 260whp S14 :). The couplings and t-bolts are not absolutely necassary for a decent while, but definetly buy them ASAP. You won't deal with boost leaks and shit coming apart on you, I guarantee that much :)

-Bart

[johngriff]

T-Bolts for the win.

There is alot to be said about high quality tube and fin, and the advances that have been made as of late. It is really about how competitive you want to be, and how much you'll spend. Garbage can chinese intercoolers are so cheap, they can be hard to pass up when comparing to a 600-900 intercooler core.

[Slidin240Wayz]

Just get the max power tube fin IC.

[chmercer]

umm get a big cheap one off ebay. you wont notice the difference. noone does. everyone who says so is a lying retard because 95 percent of people on here are making less than 300hp.

[jr_ss]

I think that the differences are only going to show in cars making huge horsepower, pushing massive amounts of air through the IC's. Someone running 300bhp isn't going to notice any difference between tube and fin and bar and plate. Sure it might be down a few horsepower, but are you really going to notice. And if you are that anal about squeezing out every last drop of power, the SR or KA-t is the wrong engine to be playing with in the first place.

[ApexRK]

I had a HKS Type S and now a Precision Turbo garrett core bar & plate and the Precision FMIC is hella strong, the fins are very firm, nothing seems to bend them and the tubes are thick and beefy. The HKS tube and fin is lighter, but feels too delicate in comparison.

Adam since your out West you should contact Kinetic Motorsports, I bought my huge PTE FMIC from them, shipped to my door was $600, just get your shop to make you some piping and your set.

[steve shadows]

frankly IC cooling quality becomes more and more important as the length of time the engine will be running under peak cylinder pressure conditions under boost or high temps increase. If your drag racing, a c02 spray system or n02 on the IC is great then run the car down the track, if you drifting or road racing for longer lengths of time where the car is positioned at odd angles for valence cooling and air flow into the engine bay coolng of charge air and coolant becomes more apparent.

I wouldnt buy the chinease crap, at least not for a race car. Many of the japanese tube and fin IC are good qualtity and have a less pressure drop but cool close to middle sized or smaller bar and plate which might be a good compromise. I wouldnt pay less than 400 bucks for an IC core if your seirous about performance and the car is used for anything more than 1320 and middle rang power numbers. The quality of the aluminum and design of the IC does effect cooling. Heat soak sucks and it will ruin your day. Dyno numbers change when your on a hot track, so going a little safe on cooling or quality of parts ie IC to be safe is worth your time. Making up for a crappy IC with sprays and injection kits is not a good policy. Get the good parts first if you going for bigger numbers or longer duration longevity and get additional cooling accessories as a backup not a mandatory supplement.

[DJ_Sunrise]

Anyone whose been in the game long enough like John and Steve will agree.. You have to pay to play. The difference of power between cores can be felt.. Go buy cheap chinese IC core, a mid grade core, and one from Blitz.. Dyno all three. Then dyno all 3 after a long track event. After all that is said and done, please pleeasse tell me you can not see a difference.

-Bart

[MomentumGT]

Running the cheap Chinese crap on our race car...not proud to say, but so far so good. We're using it only because it was at our disposal and didn't pay anything for it. One plus and maybe the only is the durability of the core itself. Had everything from kicked up rocks, dirt from spinning out, tire marbles, blown tires, and other competitors body paneling hit the core and so far so good. Class specs requires us not to exceed 340whp and the Chinese crap can more than handle that. If you're going for big hp #'s I'd say pass on the ebay stuff and get quality, but if for some reason you know that your car can and may kiss immovable objects save your self some $$.

-Jon