New IDEA! individual throttles

[240meowth]

i was just ponderin if it's possible to toss out the intake manifold and use individual throttle bodies to increase HP!  i've seen it done on a crx by signal auto, wha's involved?

[thewholefnshow]

A lot is involved... and if you are street dringing then forget it really. Think about every peice of crap from the road getting sucked directly into your engine. You need a new fuel system to keep up with the extra air, and a battery of other things icluding the manifold to hold the tb's and all the other stuff. PLus your stock ecu probably won't know what to do with all the air, and do nothing anyways... You will get a boost, but it will probably end up costing close to what a turbo does without the streetability.

[ca18guy]

Why not just carburate it?

[crazycuban]

yeah, individual throttle bodies are for race engines.  it looks cool as shit, but u suck in whatever's in ur way...if ur looking for another form of induction, and especially if u have a KA24E, why not carburation?

[crazycuban]

dammit, u got to it b4 me...haha

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from crazycuban on 11:52 am on Jan. 24, 2002
dammit, u got to it b4 me...haha</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ha, beat you by a minute <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> I thought no one else would have said it.

[240fan]

Doesn't the Gti-r SR20 have individual throttle boddies? It's possible, but unless your an engineer or know a whole lot about electronics and cars and anything else you might need to know, I'd leave it up to whoever builds the engine.

[Kid Zelda]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240fan on 1:19 pm on Jan. 24, 2002
Doesn't the Gti-r SR20 have individual throttle boddies? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sure does !

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240meowth on 11<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5 am on Jan. 24, 2002
i was just ponderin if it's possible to toss out the intake manifold and use individual throttle bodies to increase HP! i've seen it done on a crx by signal auto, wha's involved?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

the signal auto used the individual throttle bodies that toda makes ONLY for the b series motor....(honda b series motor...b16a,b18a,b18b,b18c)...here it is on the toda website
http://www.todaracing.com/B165.html

[crazycuban]

if the gti-r has individual throttle bodies, that pretty much defeats the &quot;u ingest everything in ur way&quot; argument, considering that its meant as a rally car. &nbsp;i still say go with carburators though...yeah, its old, but great for power, and simple to tune.

[240racer]

when you run individual throttle bodies you have them after the intake manifold so you can regulate the flow to each cylinder specifically. &nbsp;You are able to balence everything better, most engines have a cylinder that gets less air then the other three (or however many you have) and this way you can compensate for it. &nbsp;It really won't flow any more air at WOT then your stock system. &nbsp;If you went turbo, then of course you could flow more air, but right now the amount of air is mostly determined by how much the engine can suck in, not the size of the throtle opening. &nbsp;if you care to look at this in more depth compare the size of the restricter in different racing classes to the size of your inlet. &nbsp;They make like 300hp on restricters half the size of our inlet.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240meowth on 11<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5 am on Jan. 24, 2002
i was just ponderin if it's possible to toss out the intake manifold and use individual throttle bodies to increase HP! i've seen it done on a crx by signal auto, wha's involved?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Yep, if you want more than 200hp at the wheels you are going to have to go with carbs or ITBs. You will first need a custom manifold, pretty strait forward. You can make one your self if you have the flanges and some welding experience. Carbs would be cheapest over all, but if you live in a climate that changes drastically, count on constant retuning during the warm and cold months. ITBs are going to cost you a small fortune. The throttle set up will be $500-$1000, and because you can't use your MAFS you will need to run a programmable speed density fuel injection system ($1500-$2000). Then add in loose ends like injectors and optional ignition control units and you've got $3000+ set-up. And of course you will need to understand how to use your engine control software before you even roll out of the garage. Some would say for big power that $3000 could be better spent on FI....

[240racer]

Mason - why do you think you need to have carbs or itbs to get 200hp at the wheels? &nbsp;Are you talking about N/A or Turbo or both. &nbsp;You can definatly get more then 200 with a turbo. &nbsp;Judging by the size of the throtle body I think you could get more then 200hp even N/A however, the other work you would have to do would be a lot. &nbsp;

[zephyr]

the new m3 has six throttle bodies
mmmmmm3

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240racer on 8:17 pm on Jan. 25, 2002
Mason - why do you think you need to have carbs or itbs to get 200hp at the wheels? Judging by the size of the throtle body I think you could get more then 200hp even N/A however, the other work you would have to do would be a lot.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Mostly from observation. Rich of Fat Man Racing put down ~175hp on a dyno and he is running 11:1 compression. A certain California car, known for its 155rwhp, has pretty much all-possible bolt-ons (even the prototype hotshot revised header, and a DPR head and ported intake manifold). Thus I concluded that the restriction is in the long narrow intake manifold runners. Especially when the 244hp carbed SOHC came to my attention, and it is running only 9.5:1 compression. I think Nissan was trying to maximize torque from the KA, and thus the intake manifold reflects this. But the 2.4 liters of displacement and cam timing already make for a fairly broad torque curve.

i dont think its indivdual throttle bodies on the gti-r on the det. isnt it a quad throttle bodie meaning four in just one &nbsp;i thought thats how it was not for each cylinder? correct me if im wrong

[MyFirst240SX]

If you carbed a 240, would u have to replace the Intake manifold? &nbsp;and what kind of carb would u use. &nbsp;Could u still go turbo with a carbed 240 as ez?

[240racer]

If you are going to go turbo there is no reason to run carbs, it just seems that the N/A guys can't make very much power with the Manifold. &nbsp;I think there might be more to it, like just the capability of the internals pulling the air in, but I'm not sure. &nbsp;If people are making almost 100hp/L on this engine N/A that is pretty darn good, look at the crazy v-tec hondas they are barely doing that most of the time. &nbsp;I think to make over 100hp/L on any N/A is pretty good. &nbsp;However, with a Turbo you should be able to make much more and the intake doesn't provide the same restriction since the air is at a higher pressure then with N/A. &nbsp;Since you asked if you were to carb anything with fuel injection you would have to make a custom manifold and stuff to bolt the carb to. &nbsp;This seems like a lot more work then a turbo kit and not as high of gains either.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from MyFirst240SX on 4:47 pm on Jan. 26, 2002
If you carbed a 240, would u have to replace the Intake manifold? and what kind of carb would u use. Could u still go turbo with a carbed 240 as ez?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Nissan Motorsports makes a carb manifold for the SOHC, but anything for the DOHC will have to be custom.

Twin Mikuni are typically the carbs of choice, although Weber is another option, perhaps for the more &quot;advanced user&quot;.

Carbs + turbo = unnecessary nightmare. With FI your VE is going to be over 100%, and cylinder filling doesn't have to be done with atmospheric pressure. NA needs as little restriction as possible so it can fill the combustion chamber as much as it can during the intake event. Thus with forced induction the &quot;restrictiveness&quot; of the intake manifold really doesn't become apparent until you are running some major boost. Also EFI is a little more handy for tuning your turbo charged engine, whether Jim Wolf programs it, or you do it your self with stand alone management.