getting SR20 to 350-400 whp

[05civse]

So here is the deal, I have an S13 with a S13 blacktop SR20. The car used to feel fast for the first month that I was driving it, then I got used to it. I know it hasn't actually slowed down because it is still faster than the cars and bikes I raced when I first swapped it in. It has a built head with stock cams, stock bottom end, big FMIC, 3" turbo back exhaust, ect. (I’ll post the full list). I want to know some tried and true steps to make over 350 whp without too much boost (below 25psi). I plan on using a power FC for E/M. I would like to use the manifold it has on it (done a lot of custom work to it), but I could change it if need to.

I was looking at GT2871R's but haven't found any dyno graphs of them clearing 350hp. I know I don't want some huge turbo if I can get away with it. Basically, If you guys could list all the parts I would need (inj. size, turbo, ect.) to make a setup that can put down the numbers I am looking for that would be awesome.

Engine mods:

Engine:
 ’94 Blacktop SR20DET from 180sx
 XS Power turbo manifold (highly modified)
 XS Power turbo extension
 Crower Valve springs
 Crower Titanium Valve spring retainers
 Exedy stage one clutch
 Greddy V-SPL front mount intercooler
 Greddy aluminum oil pan
 Cometic headgasket (1.2mm I believe)
 New exhaust valve guides
 New valve seals
 Valve grind
 Ported head
 Head surfaced
 HKS SSQV blow off valve
 Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
 300zx fuel filter
 Manual boost controller
 ARP head studs
 TC Sportline rocker arm stoppers
 Megan racing 3” flex down-pipe
 Megan racing 3” test pipe
 Motoria 3” cat-back exhaust

Thanks for the help!

[Project3328]

cams, injectors, and fpr wud help

[Wei240]

^^
clutch
and some type of ems

gt2871r should get you in the ballpark, and go take it to a dynojet dyno

[eastcoastS14]

yep i agree with these guys...740injectors, 255lph fuel pump, enthalpy rom tune, act clutch and get yourself a wideband while youre at it and you should be golden

and oh yeah spend the extra $$ and get yourself a good tune

[usdm180sx]

If you go with an internal wg at that level I would lose the mbc and get an ebc just my 2 cents

[sliEighty]

dont forget z32 maf... id try looking at gt2540r

[ctm_motortrends]

Pulling 415 HP out of my S13 on a dyno.

[steve shadows]

Engine mods:

Engine:
 ’94 Blacktop SR20DET from 180sxgood start
 XS Power turbo manifold (highly modified)
 XS Power turbo extension
 Crower Valve springs
 Crower Titanium Valve spring retainers
 Exedy stage one clutch make sure this is enough
 Greddy V-SPL front mount intercooler
 Greddy aluminum oil pan
 Cometic headgasket (1.2mm I believe)
 New exhaust valve guides yes
 New valve sealsyes
 Valve grind valve job-yes
 Ported headdoesnt do much dont need it
 Head surfaced of course
 HKS SSQV blow off valve
 Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
 300zx fuel filter
 Manual boost controller works with external wg, but not very well at all with ineternal diaphram
 ARP head studsworks ok if you torque to 80 ft lbs on final
 TC Sportline rocker arm stoppers
 Megan racing 3” flex down-pipe
 Megan racing 3” test pipe
 Motoria 3” cat-back exhaust

Thanks for the help!

everything i didnt comment on looks good.

sound like your going economical

Now on turbo choice, i would go top mout, 38mm tial wg, use the manual BC, use a .48 ar turbin housing t3 with a 50 trim t4 compressor wheel, stage 3 turbine wheel, to4e housing.

Cams will be a must, go 264 step II. hks or stage 3 brian crower

the setup changes i suggest will give you a solid powerband from 4k-7800rpms if you wanted.

I suggest Power FC for your EMS and have someone else tune it who knows what they are doing. Get the kit with the Map sensor if you can.

cheers.

[liv2drift045]

Now on turbo choice, i would go top mout, 38mm tial wg, use the manual BC, use a .48 ar turbin housing t3 with a 50 trim t4 compressor wheel, stage 3 turbine wheel, to4e housing.

i cant wait steve haha

but yea i was gonna say pretty much what steve did say.... if your gonna invest this much in a build FUCK XS POWER get something else

[eastcoastS14]

my set up was:
s14 sr20
stock internals
T3/to4e 57 trim .63 a/r stage 3 wheel vband exit
custom made top mount mani
ssautochrome 38mm wastegate
deatschwerks 740cc injectors
walbro 255lph fp
fmic
z32 Maf
HKS filter
enthalpy rom tune
mild head work, port and polish
rebuilt block
hallman mbc

making 350rwhp at 17psi

[05civse]

I did lots of welding, smoothing, and bracing to that manifold to make it look decent enough to install. As for engine management I was planning on going to a power FC and having it tuned by a well-known shop around where I live.

Top mounts look bad ass, but I am worried about the heat by the brake master cylinder. It gets hot mow and I have a ceramic-coated shield between it and the manifold.

I don't mind if I fry the clutch, I assume it will happen very soon if I can get that power.

The MAF will depend if I go to a MAP setup

So basically it looks like I need
**740cc inj.
**Possibly a Z32 MAF
**Manifold (depending on turbo)... I think I would like to stay bottom mount if I could fit it. Thoughts?
**Turbo. Lots of options it looks like. I am not all that hardcore into compressor maps and stuff so I am a little lost on this stuff, even though it is the most important.
** W/G depending on turbo. I also think I may want to stay internal if at all possible
** Power FC
** Cams.. What would the stock ones limit me around?

So I see like $3,500-$4,500 and some extra. What would you estimate?

Am I going a little overboard that I just want something that just feels really fast? To the people that are around this power, do you like it? Would you want more? Or is it about right?

Thanks so much for the ongoing help guys!

[KA-T_240]

you WILL need a z32maf. more then likely a differant clutch. top mount(suggested), gt2871r at the smallest i would suggest a gt30XXR, if you go topmount go to external WG and open dump(if you can get away with it in your area)

[Nismoknightska-t]

HKS GT-RS, 720in, Z32 maf, Power fc!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)

[eastcoastS14]

HKS GT-RS if you want to buy an overpriced turbo....

to the OP keep your eye on the forsale pages...i just sold my t3 and 740injectors for $600 you can get pretty good deals if you keep an eye out...i got more turbo stuff fs if your interested :werd:

[staygold24]

stock manifold.
gt2871r .64
z32 maf
740cc injectors (deatschworks are cheap)
jwt s3 cams
tomei or apexi hg. not cosmetic.
arp headstuds are ok at 80ft lb as recommended earlier
enthalpy tune

now if you want 400whp then get the greddy intake manifold

good torque, good powerband and great reliability


Edit:Steve, what is your reasoning for always going top mount the t3/t4 50 trim?

gt2871r spools up sooner and can retain stock manifolds and everything and still make decent power. This is by no means a jab at you, I just always see you recommend it on here and also on freshalloy. Pm me if you dont want to clutter up the thread.

[05civse]

Well, the MAF depends if I go to a MAP setup with the power FC. I necessarily want 400hp just 350 and above. If going top mount would end up costing me an extra 2 grand for not that much power it wouldn't be worth it to me. although on the other hand, A better manifold wouldn't be a bad idea.

Lets say on a budget of $4k what could I Assembly and make good power on my stock bottom end. Keep in mind I would run lower boost just driving around and I don't want to blow my bottom end up the first month by way over working it.

[drifting_changed_mylife]

Pulling 415 HP out of my S13 on a dyno.
THATS PRETTY GOOD! WHATS UR SET UP???

[DOOK]

I just so happen to have a T3/To4e AR .60 exhaust .63, stage 3 wheel, top mount manifold custom made to pull the turbo further away from brake booster and master cylinder and also clear S14 stuff like I have installed on my S13, TiAL 38mm and Q45 MAF. It's all at a FRACTION of your estimates bro. I'll take 1300 plus actual shipping. All stuff is brand new, 0 miles. Came upon some rough financial times and I've had to abandon the project for now.

here is a link.
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=144821

PM me if interested.

[05civse]

What is everyones thoughts on that? ^^^^^ looks like it has been sitting a while though. sounds interesting

[DOOK]

What is everyones thoughts on that? ^^^^^ looks like it has been sitting a while though. sounds interesting

been sitting since november

[liv2drift045]

thats a go... and its a pretty good deal too all you need is a downpipe.... thats a similar setup to what steve recommended just slightly larger... it might be a LITTLE more laggy but not undriveable I say DO IT

[DOOK]

thats a go... and its a pretty good deal too all you need is a downpipe.... thats the exact setup i plan on running for the same powergoals you have.. DO IT

:bigok: come get it:naughty:

[statik]

gt2871r .64 will hit 350whp, some have hit 400whp (codyace). You can stay bottom mount and you will have full boost by 3500rpm

as everyone else said, wideband, 740cc injectors, z32 maf if going maf, rom tune if not going standalone, and a good set of cams

[liv2drift045]

:bigok: come get it:naughty:

Haha caught me while I was editing. I don't have the loot right now man AND the exact turbo I want (the one Steve mentioned above) one of my buddies is holding for me.

[DOOK]

I'm not picky about buyers, either of you can get it haha

[05civse]

^^ thinking about it. I just dont know a ton about turbos, so I am waiting to hear what all those seasoned vets. on here have to say. How much did you pay for all that? if you don't mind me asking. It would be fun!

I was also thinking about a 3071R with a t2 housing (i heared they made it)

[Tearlessj]

Where did you get that top mount and how much?

[DOOK]

^^ thinking about it. I just dont know a ton about turbos, so I am waiting to hear what all those seasoned vets. on here have to say. How much did you pay for all that? if you don't mind me asking. It would be fun!

I was also thinking about a 3071R with a t2 housing (i heared they made it)

PMed buddy :fruit:

[DOOK]

Where did you get that top mount and how much?

are you talking to me?

[05civse]

anyway, I think I may be loosing my mind. Now I am seriously considering pulling the engine and rebuilding the bottom end with forged pistons and new rods. I just noticed my front main seal is leaking a little, and I'm burning oil I figure out the rear turbo seal.

I don't know, the current bottom end gives me perfect comp. and 2% or 3% leak down on each cyl. (all the same). Would it be worth it to build it up? should I just say f it all and go to an rb25? I am questioning everything now.

I need some encouragement so I just don't give up.

choices:

-fix front main seal, then go to a bottom mount gt3071R, power FC, and big injectors ---like $3-$3,500

-Build bottom end, go to a T3 topmount, power FC, and big injectors--Like $5000

-sell SR, go to RB25 mildly stock --like $4,000

Would a built SR be way more fun than mild RB? Horsepower is horsepower i guess.

[DOOK]

something to think about is that SRs part are a lot easier to come by than RB parts because we had them installed in a variety of cars here in the states. Can't exactly go down to the autozone and get a seal or something for an RB. Even if you don't decide to go with my setup I would suggest staying with an SR.

anyway, I think I may be loosing my mind. Now I am seriously considering pulling the engine and rebuilding the bottom end with forged pistons and new rods. I just noticed my front main seal is leaking a little, and I'm burning oil I figure out the rear turbo seal.

I don't know, the current bottom end gives me perfect comp. and 2% or 3% leak down on each cyl. (all the same). Would it be worth it to build it up? should I just say f it all and go to an rb25? I am questioning everything now.

I need some encouragement so I just don't give up.

choices:

-fix front main seal, then go to a bottom mount gt3071R, power FC, and big injectors ---like $3-$3,500

-Build bottom end, go to a T3 topmount, power FC, and big injectors--Like $5000

-sell SR, go to RB25 mildly stock --like $4,000

Would a built SR be way more fun than mild RB? Horsepower is horsepower i guess.

[liv2drift045]

25 is gonna be more torquy theorhetically. I've driven quite a few rb25's and after driving a built SR, I still prefer the SR. Keep the SR. You already have it. No sense selling it for another motor, and ordering a mount kit, driveshaft all that nonsense. Anyways do the cheaper of the 3. You'll still hit your power goal w/ that turbine, but theres been talk of the cheapo manifolds breaking up around this power. If you re-braced it/strengthened it I guess you'll be ok. If you can afford it get a set of cams. They'll help whatever turbo setup you choose. GL man.. DONT GIVE UP.

[driftertim]

-fix front main seal, then go to a bottom mount gt3071R, power FC, and big injectors ---like $3-$3,500

I think you should stick to your guns. You have an SR, it will make reliable HP's guaranteed. {Pick a Turbo which everyone else is runnign reliably and making good power all arround the powerband} Then the MAF and Injectors, a good tune. RBs are fun, they sound BAD ASS, but go with the motor the car was intended to have, Make 350+WHP. Your car will be Fast as FUZZ and youll enjoy it. BLOW YOUR MOTOR, and buy a new block, use your parts from the other motor and there you go again. SR blocks are dirt cheap. Dont give up man, we all wana see how our build comes about and you will enjoy it.

P.S. You dont necessarily need CAMS, put that money into a better Manifold (Tomei, Geddy, etc..)

Cheers,
Tim

[05civse]

Thanks, that is what i need to hear. I guess I have already done lots of work to the motor itself so I should just stick to it rather then go to a stock RB.

I am just having one of those days where my car is just pissing me off with everything, but I have put way way too many hours into it to just give up. One of my bigger fears with this is that after all of this work it will still feel slow to me.

Those of you with 350-400 hp 240's, would you say it was all worth it and it feels rediculously fast, or no?

My bottom end is in perfect condition, so I guess ill just run it stock till she blows and go with cams, power FC, injectors, cams, MAF, and then make a final decision on the turbo... gt2871R .86----bottom mount gt3071R T2---- GT3071R T3 top mount--- any other suggestions that I really should look into?

Thanks again for the support guys!

[Tearlessj]

are you talking to me?
Yes. Manifold looks very nice.

[DOOK]

guy out in washington state made it for me. Can't remember his name, it was John something. He does mostly honda/acura road racing team stuff but I had him do this one for me. It was expensive, he made it to what I wanted.

[05civse]

Would getting the 3071r in a t2 flange be a bad thing output wise?

I am thinking of just going

*gt3071r t2 bottom mount
*deatschwerks 740cc injectors
*power FC
*Z32 MAF or go to MAP setup

Run that till something breaks (manifold) Then go topmount and cams (unless I want more power sooner than that).
Staying bottom mount looks to save me over 1 G and net the same power without looking as bad ass.

Unless... will the 3071 fit as a bottom mount? anyone know?
does the 3071 come with an internal wastegate?

[DOOK]

may run into some steering shaft issues, don't know for sure though

[05civse]

right now my t25 turbo ext. devorced wastegate tube sits right on the steering shaft

[05civse]

so I decided on a top mount t3 setup. my only last choice now is the turbo. tons of people tell me gt2871r .86 and tons say gt3071r. I was planning on buying everything from heavy throttle as they have everything in one place. The only thing is they only sell the gt3076r and not the 71. I figure they know what they are doing, so would the 76 be much more laggy than the 71? I read somewhere that the 76 would spool very quick for its size. thoughts?

[steve shadows]

so I decided on a top mount t3 setup. my only last choice now is the turbo. tons of people tell me gt2871r .86 and tons say gt3071r. I was planning on buying everything from heavy throttle as they have everything in one place. The only thing is they only sell the gt3076r and not the 71. I figure they know what they are doing, so would the 76 be much more laggy than the 71? I read somewhere that the 76 would spool very quick for its size. thoughts?

It spools fast for a large turbo, but imo it still is not as formidable for response tune style setups (ie drifting and road racing tighter courses) etc.

the gt3071R would be your mate.

If your looking to go for the 500whp range max with some drag strip use, the 3076r is a good compromise and will yield great results on larger race tracks.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5513660

this is a dyno of a gt3071r maxed out i stole from my thread on turbos on FA

[FusionR240sx]

P.S. You dont necessarily need CAMS, put that money into a better Manifold





most cam setups are cheaper then getting a insane exhaust manifold. almost half the price.

right now i have -

eagle rods
BC 272's
CP pisonts 86.5mm
gt2871R .64
740cc's
300zx MAF
God Speed FMIC


i will be getting a dyno and tune soon...

[steve shadows]

it will be interesting to see how the 272's work out wiht that turbo. Kind of big imo.

[Dousan_PG]

those cams are too big
wtf.
get a real manifold

[steve shadows]

those cams are too big
wtf.
get a real manifold

yeah with the .64 thats A LOT of overlap for such a small turbine.

Might have been ok for a 3071R , maybe.

But remeber kids' Brian Crower is not the same as HKS, his cams have a more conservative ramp angle and idle smoother, rev differently (slightly) and make power slightly differently (differnt that tomei and other jdm cam profiles also).

So theoretically it would work, I just think 264 stage 2's would be a better cam to match the turbos strong points in the power bands. like a lot better.

[Dousan_PG]

i wanted HKS cams but out of stockwhen i did mine
so i went w/ Toda

3071r.....mmm
2 months it mine. 2 months MAX. haha..i have the money now..must....control...
wish i had afull race twin scroll..sigh just stuck w/ a regular FR :(

[steve shadows]

i wanted HKS cams but out of stockwhen i did mine
so i went w/ Toda

3071r.....mmm
2 months it mine. 2 months MAX. haha..i have the money now..must....control...
wish i had afull race twin scroll..sigh just stuck w/ a regular FR :(

yeah its a great turbo for almost anything with the stock disp SR.

i think the twin scroll setups are a little over-rated aaron, I have yet to drive one to compare (on SR) but dyno graphs and marketing have left a bad taste in my mouth for such an expensive piece.

If you drive one let me know-just make sure they both use the same turbine, everyone is comparing twin scroll 3071rs to single scroll 35rs and 30rs, and then they wonder why the car is so much more fucking responsive. :cj:

[Dousan_PG]

my friends have them.
went from single to twin scrolls
exact same motor setup same car and such
said night and day.

my friend had 3071R single scroll Full Race
went to 3071R twin

said wouldn't think of going back.

[steve shadows]

my friends have them.
went from single to twin scrolls
exact same motor setup same car and such
said night and day.

my friend had 3071R single scroll Full Race
went to 3071R twin

said wouldn't think of going back.

yeah when i get a couple extra thousand bucks ill probably spring for one too.

[Dousan_PG]

'expensive" is relative.
haha
thats all it is.

[steve shadows]

yeah im trying to convince a couple other manifold manufacturers (when i have time to bitch over the phone at them) to get twin scroll platforms out and available. full-race is ths shit and their mild steel construction is better, but I have a good working relationship with PB (as of now:-/ ) and it would be cool if they could offer it as well.

anyways , couple thou is a couple thou, no biggie if you can afford cali living then you can save for a twin scroll haha

ill run my single for the rest of the summer until i feel like blowing the tires off even more.

[Grendel]

gt2871r .64 will hit 350whp, some have hit 400whp (codyace). You can stay bottom mount and you will have full boost by 3500rpm

as everyone else said, wideband, 740cc injectors, z32 maf if going maf, rom tune if not going standalone, and a good set of cams

Here is the link to Codyace's thread on FA, good info there: http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=158176

[Turbocoop]

Top mounts look bad ass, but I am worried about the heat by the brake master cylinder. It gets hot mow and I have a ceramic-coated shield between it and the manifold.
it only took me like 45 minutes to make this heatshield out of aluminum
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/412816170_0ab0802e8c.jpg

and youre right- top mounts do look badass

[picho]

oh by the way everything above is cool but i suggest you change your oilpump to be on the safe side sr20det engines are pretty old and pushing that kind of power ,you might wanna make sure you have oil up top of the head ive seeing engines blow many times.

[picho]

:drama: oh by the way everything above is cool but i suggest you change your oilpump to be on the safe side sr20det engines are pretty old and pushing that kind of power ,you might wanna make sure you have oil up top of the head ive seeing engines blow many times.

[05civse]

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5513660

this is a dyno of a gt3071r maxed out i stole from my thread on turbos on FA

some good dyno sheets in that link. what exact turbo do they mean when they just say gt30r?

would the potential of the 3076 be beter by alot over the 3071? or should I just buy a new turbo if I step it up a little more and just use the 3071 till then? It would be much more convienient to get all my parts from heavy throttle instead of several places. anyone know any good sites to order a bunch of stuff off of?

Thanks again!

[05civse]

I looked at my head and found two valves that pulled the seals up to the top of the valve stem so that the bottom of the umbrella part is above the top of the valve guide by like 1/4". Those are the two valves that leaked the most for obvious reasons. Are the USDM sr20's exhaust valves smaller than the JDM det's? anyone ever see this before?

[05civse]

one more thought, is there a too big for injectors? i know they will be slower and possibly not atomize correctly, but is 850cc too big? sounds huge, just wondering what the smallest size i should run for 400whp.

[Wei240]

injectors are dynamic, so you can even run 1000cc's if you wanted to,
you can always make adjustment with a standalone

850cc's are fine

even 740's are fine for 300-400 that you're looking for,

but if you do plan to upgrade, bump up, switch to a larger turbo, higher hp goals, you'd wish you'd bought larger injectors...

[05civse]

^^alright, thanks

can anyone comment on my other quetions?

thanks