Australia wins

[Matej]

These are excerpts from a recent speech by Australian Prime Minister John Howard.


IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!


Another part...

We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that
you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are
happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't
care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your
culture, but do not force it on others.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining,
whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or
Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great
Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.

[wootwoot]

parts of that I like a lot. Change isnt always bad though

[Wahl 136]

Sounds like the people of Australia win! I think it weeds out the amount of people that are only coming to that area for a free hand out or goverment welfare, insurance, and etc. and hopefully bringing the those that can contribute to society and be a citizen.

[C. Senor]

i love that..i basically think the same way, you cant go somewhere and expect them to change to your beliefs. that guy knows whats up.

[ManoNegra]

+1 Aussie, aussie, aussie!!

[S13SilviaGirl]

I have wanted to move to Australia for many years now. God, I need to apply for citizenship there.

[s13rookie]

Wow, its rare to see someone in office speak their mind. usually they pussy-foot around the issue and dont take a clear stand.

I would imagine though is not eligible for re-election, those sound like " last term, kiss my ass" comments.

And i though all aussies did was wrestle crocodiles..........

[markyboi]

and ladies and gentlemen, that is how its done.

[20 til 3]

and that is why i'm moving there next year WOOT WOOT

aussi 08 baby

[mRclARK1]

:werd:

What really pisses me right off is when immigrants come here and complain and degrade our society and way of life, I'll be the first to admit they aren't perfect by any means... but if things are so rotten here, why did you leave your shithole home to come here?

[s13rookie]

I agree, its like the saying "if you didnt vote you dont have the right to crticise the gov."

[20 til 3]

america sucks ass... simple as that, people bitch to much and we need to have some natural selection shit happen

if you cant speak decent english... shoot them in the face and walk away?

[s13rookie]

america sucks ass... simple as that....


there are exits to the north and the south......

[theicecreamdan]

also exits to the east and west, carry all your heaviest belongings and please just walk right on out there.

[Howard92884]

america sucks ass... simple as that, people bitch to much and we need to have some natural selection shit happen

if you cant speak decent english... shoot them in the face and walk away?
Is this not also bitching?? Have you ever been out of the country? We americans have it made in the shade compared to most other countries, yet we still like to complain about how much our country sucks. Would you rather live in Iraq? I think not. I agree with Australia if you don't like your country then get the f*ck out.

[eastcoastS14]

if you cant speak decent english... shoot them in the face and walk away?

^^ yeah real fuckin nice man....should i build a time machine and go murder your immigrant grandparents? cause i know damn well my ancestors immigrated here and im willing to bet they took a lot of shit as did yours im sure.

I think part of what makes this country so great is that the US is a giant melting pot of all cultures, you can go to any major city in the US and find ppl from all countries. People come to America because its a land of oppurtunity...I am all for immigration and think its great that people can function and provide for their families without neccessarily having to speak good english, after all if we all immigrated somewhere as adults we may have trouble learning that language fluently and i am willing to bet most of us never would since most of the world speaks english any way. I also believe that if you do come here then its not right to complain....its ok to voice your opinion but dont expect a society to change for you or embrace your views, now if its a matter of racism and predjudice..thats a different story, i also think that as Americans we take this stand of "dont come here and complain" however we do the same when we travel abroad...Americans get angry when ppl dont speak english in other countries or think that its stupid that they do things differently, i find that many people in this country believe that we are the center of the world so i believe that we as americans should be as accepting of outsiders with other cultures as we demand they be of ours


^^^ and that is my essay of the night lol.....minor in poli sci lol couldnt help myself

[Wahl 136]

I think the whole idea is getting side tracked by a little extreme comments. I'm sure he didn't really want to have everyone shot that doesn't speak good english. Half of my teachers are foreigners speak horrid english but are contributing to society in a postitive manner.

With bloated prision numbers I personally wouldn't mind seeing a 1 strike your out foreign policy. If your arrested of a crime and found guilty your automatically deported. Then let the goverment find a loop hole that doesn't allow people to just come over here to leach off of our system use it and abuse it, then bounce out like a bad date.

[s13rookie]

Yeah, im sure he didnt literally mean shoot em all, but its probably not the best comments to make after 30+ people were just killed in a school.

I agree that not all immigrants should be lumped into the "scum of the earth, piss on our culture" group, nor can they all be put into the " hard working, trying to adapt" As was mentioned above, many immigrants are in roles such as teachers or doctors and contribute more to society than many of us "naturals" will ever do.

At court, the judge makes a quick intro speech. one part consists of...if you are not a citizen and are convicted of a crime you may face penalties up to and including deportation. They should not FACE deportation, It should be mandatory. Many non-citizens are in the country legally, but most are not. If they should not be here in the first place, there should be not problem with
tossing them.

the gov. has gotten P.C. to the point off being ineffectual

[theicecreamdan]

^^ yeah real fuckin nice man....should i build a time machine and go murder your immigrant grandparents? cause i know damn well my ancestors immigrated here and im willing to bet they took a lot of shit as did yours im sure.

I think part of what makes this country so great is that the US is a giant melting pot of all cultures, you can go to any major city in the US and find ppl from all countries. People come to America because its a land of oppurtunity...I am all for immigration and think its great that people can function and provide for their families without neccessarily having to speak good english, after all if we all immigrated somewhere as adults we may have trouble learning that language fluently and i am willing to bet most of us never would since most of the world speaks english any way. I also believe that if you do come here then its not right to complain....its ok to voice your opinion but dont expect a society to change for you or embrace your views, now if its a matter of racism and predjudice..thats a different story, i also think that as Americans we take this stand of "dont come here and complain" however we do the same when we travel abroad...Americans get angry when ppl dont speak english in other countries or think that its stupid that they do things differently, i find that many people in this country believe that we are the center of the world so i believe that we as americans should be as accepting of outsiders with other cultures as we demand they be of ours


^^^ and that is my essay of the night lol.....minor in poli sci lol couldnt help myself

If you're writing that, and bragging about it being a product of your education... I'm going to advise you to transfer somewhere that they will expect more out of your writing.

I haven't done very much traveling, but I have never been pissed off when people in Tijuana don't speak English. I've never met one person that talked about being pissed when they traveled to a foreign country and had to pick up on some phrases so they could eat and use bathrooms.

If people want to come to America and speak bangladeshi I could give half a fuck. We won't be able to communicate but that's their problem and not mine. I don't see any reason we should force people to learn the native language. If they want to come here and be a hermit, then more power to them. There is a lot more incentive to learn english when you live here than a bunch of people saying "speak english or get out" can ever convey.

If they are going to complain, the best we can do is "what I can't understand you." If they feel its important to get their point across then they will learn, if not then we don't have to listen to their jibberish anymore.

As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

I'm sorry who's culture do you have?

God I'd be so much happier with my conservative beliefs if there were just a few people that could believe the same thing, and say it without sounding like an idiot.

[exitspeed]

What do you expect from the land of Mad Max?

I like his philosophy on the whole thing. I tried convincing my wife last night that we need to move there.

My whole name is Melbourne after all. I should get free shit everywhere.

[Yuri]

I really want to move to Australia now. Mostly for other reasons, but I like this speech too...

I'd love to live in Melbourne.

[theicecreamdan]

I like ideas from his ideology, but he's not going to convince anybody to change like that. If you want to get people to believe in what you say you can't alienate people in the middle.

[Wahl 136]

I'm sorry who's culture do you have?

They have the United Kindgom to thank for that.

[eastcoastS14]

If you're writing that, and bragging about it being a product of your education... I'm going to advise you to transfer somewhere that they will expect more out of your writing.


nah boss...actually i wrote that at about 6:00 in the mornin after having no sleep what so ever the night before and on zilvia of all places...if you really want a real essay ill type you one. I just wrote "poli sci minor" because i love politics and getting into debates about subjects like this, its something that interests me so i felt the need to voice my opinion and dont think that anything i write on the internet reflects my writing ability or the caliber of my school work

....as far as the whole illegal immigrants not contributing anything to our society argument, you guys have a lot to learn. The truth of the matter is that in many cases illegal immigrants actually contribute more to our economy than people would like to believe. Illegal immigrants often are forced to get fake social security numbers in order to work in this country, the govt usually does not check if every social security number is valid. What this means is there is a whole population of illegal immigrants who are paying into a system out of every check and then can never get that money back because there number is fake. Also the idea that there is this illegal immigrant crime wave is a myth, the truth is that the majority of immigrants come here and live peacefully, although there are some bad apples it is a very small minority of the immigrant population. For the most part the actual issue concerning immigration is that people feel that this country is becoming less and less white...people in this nation dont like the fact that they go into the city and many people speak little or bad english, and thats the truth and if you dont believe it look up some crime and employment statistics. Immigrants are not causing spikes in crime nor are they taking jobs or taking away from our economy. For the most part illegal immigrants are working low paying jobs that none of us would want to do any way....and if you live in cali and been through wine country or the farms then you see lots of mexicans picking lettuce and other crops by hand...now if any of you want to pick your own lettuce be my guest. Most of the reasond for closing the borders are myths, yes these people are here illegally but in actuallity they have little or no bearing on our day to day lives

edit: and just so all of you are clear the group that has been recently recieving the most criticism Mexicans only make up 9% of the US population....the largest group of immigrants to this country are German immigrants yet no one criticizes that

and unless youre native american you come from immigrants too lets not forget that...most of us (basically unless you have english ancestory) wouldnt even be here if the US didnt have an open border policy in the past

[HalveBlue]

There are very good reasons to be against illegal immigration and not all are xenophobic. I agree however, that the issue is definitely not black or white (so to speak).

Illegal immigration produces a huge burden on public and private infrastructure. Illegal immigrants face a disproportionate tax burden, and while many may pay into the social security system this doesn't hold true for all, or even a majority of illegal immigrants. There are many illegal immigrants that don't pay into the system at all, or at least their employers don't enroll them. The fact that many (most) illegal immigrants are engaged in low paying jobs, without benefits, means that many are forced to rely on assistance from government agencies. The classic example is the burden put on emergency room visits by illegal immigrants.

As a society, we generally have enough goodwill to help out those in need. However, when there are too many people in need, the system eventually collapses. Look at many of the European economies and what has happened or is happening to their "social security nets".

There is a correlation between crime and illegal immigration. It's simple fact of life, poverty = higher crime rates. At least certain types of crime. This applies to all races and nations. Further, illegal immigrants are weary of contacting authorities due to their status and so, any crime that happens in that community is, if anything, underreported.

A larger issue, some that many people easily overlook or are afraid to address because of "xenophobia factor", is that the inability of many immigrants to adapt to cultural norms and mores. Large cutlural gaps tend to incite social friction. Look at Belgium, Quebec, India, Iraq, Sudan, or the myriad of other places that have large internal divisions.

Language, for example, is a primary and fundamental factor in conveying, disbursing, and shaping culture. When people can't communicate you have a basic breakdown of social interaction. That's bad.

Because illegal immigrants often take low paying jobs (which are high paying compared to wages in their home countries) they undermine the minimum wages for legal residents and citizens. They unknowingly and unwilling drive down the standard of living for everyone.

The issue of border security, while related, is a separate issue. Many people however tie this into the illegal immigration debate.

That having been said, illegal immigrants do positively affect the economy. They provide a large, low wage pool of manpower that's perfect for labor intensive jobs. They also introduce a stimulus of new ideas and concepts into their host cutlures and societies.

Looking over all of this, I have to say, I don't necessarily share all these opinions. I am a legal immigrant. I know many other immigrants, both legal and illegal. Not all illegal immigrants were non-English speaking, counterproductive members of society. Some you probably couldn't even tell came from another country. I think, often times illegal immigrants are unfairly described as unsociable parasites that are bent on destroying the US from the inside out. In my personal experience, most tend to be friendly and hard working people.

All in all, I'm torn. On one hand I can't blame someone for trying to improve their livelyhood. At the same time I can't blame illegal immigration entirely on the immigrants. Afterall, someone is hiring them and that's why they come. At the same time, I view societies and countries as containers; eventually you're going to reach the top and something's gonna spill. There's a tenuous balance between the standard of living and how many people can benifit from that.