Chassis Rewiring

[bardabe]

Well, as we all know my car has a wiring dilema, previous ownerhacked the living hell out of the stock harness. :down: and well now that my cat desided to jump in there and help me tear my body harness appart it only made it better :rant2: sooo i went to the junk yard (4 of them) and eh looked at S13's adnmore S13's after looking at 12 - 15 s13's i foudn out that im never going to find a a clean S13 harness at the junk yard. plus redoing a USDM S13 harness to fit my car would not be pretty in the first place. sooo im going to do stand alone chassis wiring. I am most likely not going to use any of the stock switches. for maby exept the Headlight and turn signal switch. this is what i plan to wire up

-Headlights
-Parking lights
-Taillights
-Turn Signals
-Hazards
-Fans
-Wipers
-Fuel pump
-Fuel level.
-stereo with only 2 speakers

gotta redo the lower harness (speed sensor, alternator, and tarter) and I would like to use the stock CLuster in adition to boost gauge and oil pressure gauge.

what do you guys think? this car will be used in the street but i do also have a daily driver now so when it starts to rain this baby wont be out.

[TheTimanator]

interesting. Are you going to buy a kit (ie. painless etc.) or do everything on your own?

['90RPS13]

I think you should make a writeup while doing it. Also, like Tim, are you going Painless or Bardabe special?Also, we just had a S13 coupe come in with a perfect harness inside and out. If you need one, lemme know.

[g6civcx]

I'm doing the same thing. I don't think a writeup is really appropriate for this sitatuation because it really depends on the application.

You should find out how relays work, how current and power work, how thick you need the wires to be, how diodes work, etc.

Redoing it is not hard, but if you have no experience designing your own circuits you will be in trouble and risk malfunction or even fire.

If you run into any trouble feel free to PM me. I may even share my wiring diagram with you to give you an idea of how to run relays.

[bardabe]

I'm doing the same thing. I don't think a writeup is really appropriate for this sitatuation because it really depends on the application.

You should find out how relays work, how current and power work, how thick you need the wires to be, how diodes work, etc.

Redoing it is not hard, but if you have no experience designing your own circuits you will be in trouble and risk malfunction or even fire.

If you run into any trouble feel free to PM me. I may even share my wiring diagram with you to give you an idea of how to run relays.
yeah that would be great. right now Im looking at the FSM and basically im just figuring out what Im going to take off what is going to not be used etc etc. figuring out the relays that im going to use fuses and so on. so far im looking at how many amp relays i need and the fusible links. looks to be straight forward and not too hard. Ive done wiring before but this will be my first actualy full chassis harness. im looking to leaving my engine bay spotless and clean. same thing with my gutted interior and ofcourse FUnction > form. the most hard thing Im looking at is going to be the blinker system because im sure im going to need a blinking relay. :blah: andmy rant goes on. i have a lot of homework to do. but I will be putting this together from scratch and using nothing but the best. im tired of half assing shit.

(and to think this all started from a charging system issue) lol:Owned:

[g6civcx]

If you're just looking to simplify the engine room, just move both your relay boxes into the passenger cabins and start extending wires that need to go into the engine room.

Off the top of my head, you'll need brake fluid switch, parking lamp, headlamp, horn, windshield washer/wiper, low washer fluid.

Stuff like oil pressure switch, coolant temp, power steering pressure, etc. have to go through the engine room and cannot be relocated. Just tuck them the best you can. Obviously all the engine sensors have to stay where they are.

The rest of the stuff can be rerouted into the cabin if you relocate your battery.

[bardabe]

If you're just looking to simplify the engine room, just move both your relay boxes into the passenger cabins and start extending wires that need to go into the engine room.

Off the top of my head, you'll need brake fluid switch, parking lamp, headlamp, horn, windshield washer/wiper, low washer fluid.

Stuff like oil pressure switch, coolant temp, power steering pressure, etc. have to go through the engine room and cannot be relocated. Just tuck them the best you can. Obviously all the engine sensors have to stay where they are.

The rest of the stuff can be rerouted into the cabin if you relocate your battery.
my harnessis pretty thrashed. and JDM harnesses are not really easy to come by..... i inspected my harness and I can telly ou right now it's beyond repair.

[johngriff]

did you killl the cat?

[g6civcx]

my harnessis pretty thrashed. and JDM harnesses are not really easy to come by..... i inspected my harness and I can telly ou right now it's beyond repair.

What engine do you have and what chassis?

[Rayne]

What engine do you have and what chassis?

Engine: RB
Chassis 89-90 S13 Base

[bardabe]

yes he is correct i Have an RB in a 90 base model. my car is not USDM so even if i went to the junk yard I woudl have to mod the harness. since i did not find a clean ass harness at the junk yard I will go ahead and make my own harness. now my only problem is the Relays nissan has blue green gray and black relays. are they all 30amp relays? what;s the ampeage of them?

John: no i didn;t kill the car i still like it. im just upset.

[g6civcx]

You should probably get relays that can handle as much or more than the highest amperage fuse on the circuits going into the relay.

For example, if you have 2 circuits going into the relay, one with a 15A fuse and the other with a 30A fuse. Each pin should handle the same or more current draw than the max current going into the pin. So you need a relay that can handle at least 15A on one set of pins and at least 30A on another set of pins.

http://www.courtesyparts.com/relays-fuses/relays-fuses.html

[bardabe]

You should probably get relays that can handle as much or more than the highest amperage fuse on the circuits going into the relay.

For example, if you have 2 circuits going into the relay, one with a 15A fuse and the other with a 30A fuse. Each pin should handle the same or more current draw than the max current going into the pin. So you need a relay that can handle at least 15A on one set of pins and at least 30A on another set of pins.

http://www.courtesyparts.com/relays-fuses/relays-fuses.html
oh ok then I shoudl be good with these relays( http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=VIA%2D80237&N=700+4294925143+4294839062+4294845465+115&autoview=sku ) I plan to run individual relays for eveyrthing that runs off the batteryand I don;t see anything other than the alternator that uses a fuseible larger than 30amps. ofcourse i will be getting fuseblocks to distribute power and so on. as i find exactly what i want to get I'll post.

[g6civcx]

Generally ignition, starter, and alternator are the big draw on the engine side. If you have amps and subs you're going to have to run those with thick wires as well.

Most of the accessories on the car like lights, horn, gauges, etc. will be no more than 15A max, with the exception of the fans and rear defroster. These will draw than 15A. Check the FSM for exact specs.


The other thing you may want to fix is Nissan draws current for the headlights directly through the headlight switch and then routes that power to the headlights. This really isn't ideal because you have a lot of current running throught the steering column, which corrodes the headlight switch over time.

For stuff like these, the switch should be wired to a relay, and let the 30A relay handle power to the headlights.


Again, you should know exactly how relays work if you're going to redo the wiring.

[bardabe]

Generally ignition, starter, and alternator are the big draw on the engine side. If you have amps and subs you're going to have to run those with thick wires as well.

Most of the accessories on the car like lights, horn, gauges, etc. will be no more than 15A max, with the exception of the fans and rear defroster. These will draw than 15A. Check the FSM for exact specs.


The other thing you may want to fix is Nissan draws current for the headlights directly through the headlight switch and then routes that power to the headlights. This really isn't ideal because you have a lot of current running throught the steering column, which corrodes the headlight switch over time.

For stuff like these, the switch should be wired to a relay, and let the 30A relay handle power to the headlights.


Again, you should know exactly how relays work if you're going to redo the wiring.

yes exactly. that is what I thought. I will be using non of the OEM switches other than the ignition switch to lock the steering column. (safety purpose i guess) but no wires to it. Im basically going to run 30 amp relays to everything that is going to be powered straight from the battery. aftermarket switches with pushstart. something like this

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6306.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6311.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6312.jpg

that way all teh relays are hidden under the dash. fuse boxes in the glove box and then i just gotta run the
-Gauges, Cluster, stereo, ignition, ECU power. under the dash.
-Right headlight, turn signal, parking light, and Fan through right fender.
-left headlight, turn signal, and parking light through the left fender and
-the fuel pump, fuel level sender, both tail lights, turn signals, licence plate lights, and reverse lights through the rear Left of the car along with the main battery cable.

spliting the harness into sections should make it alot less complex. and cleaner ofcourse. make multiple grounding spots on the chassis to keep the grounds safe all the time.

I will however be adding a relay for the fuel pump and using thicker (14GA) wire to keep the fuel going all the time even at constant high speeds.

my ground spots are going to be as follows.

Headlights, turn signalts etc etc. all ont he frame rails (each side) to keep them short. under the dash it will all be grounded to the tranny tunnel, and the rear will be grounded on the frame rails as well. I will be grounding the battery on both frame rails that way in a sence everything is grounded straight to the battery.

I want to add a safety feature and put a batteyr kill switch that will also kill the charging system. so when i do leave my car parked outside there is no way to drive the car unless you have another car driving right next to it with an jumper cables. :bigok: how's that sound?

[johngriff]

Make sure all your switches are rated for 12v. When we did my ignition we totally forgot to check, and got the acc/on for 120v, and the push start w/a 5v microswitch. So make sure you check everything before hand.

http://a344.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/7/l_15de19addb46a41ae9a3f41dd1e15fcf.jpg

[bardabe]

Make sure all your switches are rated for 12v. When we did my ignition we totally forgot to check, and got the acc/on for 120v, and the push start w/a 5v microswitch. So make sure you check everything before hand.

http://a344.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/7/l_15de19addb46a41ae9a3f41dd1e15fcf.jpg
yeah i will be getting al mys witches online. Summit, jegs, boat places. etc etc. i wanna do it right he first time so im going all out. :x:

[g6civcx]

Also check this out: http://www.longacreracing.com

[yokotas13]

that place is cool!

[bardabe]

oh sweet that place is nice, always a good thing to compare prices. =D thanks bro. i shoudl have my wiring diagrams up soon. hopefully by this weekend. Last night I pulled the engine bay wiring. it looks so much better. less clutter. ha ha I will be pulling my engine out. so I can respray the bay, clean all kinds of stuff up and eh redo my write up. its not that much work so it's definetly going to happen. he he wish me luck guys here is a picture of how my engine bay stands as of last night
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/wireless001.jpg

[irax]

I have never seen RB piping done like that, I have always seen it the opposite way.

[bardabe]

Hey, ive been thinking. how hard will it be to redo my wheel wells? i was looking at my driverside wheel well and it is lumpy as fork. I can always bang it out. but i was thinking maby just tub the wells what are you guy's input? I have a lincoln HD 100 welder. woudl that be enough/ sufficient?

[g6civcx]

This is my layout. I'm using the Longacre 3 in 1 ignition and start switch. The actual engine wiring will be another explosion, but conceptually you see how the layout. I have a mechanical fuel pump and no ECU (carbs) so mine will be very simple. Just the starter, alternator, auto choke, ignition, electrical fans, and ground. I'll be using relays for each of those.

I ran a separate switch to turn on the accessories. This is necessary to manually shut down the accessories to reduce current draw when the starter is cranking. Otherwise you'll have to use an inverter and it gets complicated really quickly. I'll be running relays for the accessories as well.


Nissan designed several accessories to be constant on, like horn, hazards, headlights, brake lights, parking lights, etc. I don't really like this because I tend to leave my lights on. I wired all these to turn off with the accessories switch, which goes out with ignition OFF so I don't have to worry about draining the battery.


The only constant on power source I have is for the radio presets. You will need this for your ECU as well.

[bardabe]

yeah that look nspretty simple. the only thing that is kicking my balls right now. is the blinker / hazards system. I have to find a blinking relay huh.

[g6civcx]

the only thing that is kicking my balls right now. is the blinker / hazards system. I have to find a blinking relay huh.

Look at the FSM - EL section.

The flasher relay has 3 pins: input, output, and ground. When you apply power to the input, the output is flashed.

If you're experiencing fast blinking, Google "trick flasher" or "libertek". They will eliminate fast blinking with lower wattage bulbs.

You can reuse the stock turn signal stalk. Note how the wires are piggyback into the hazards switch.

With the stock setup, what happens is when the hazards is off, the turn signal stalk will only flash the turn signal when the key is ON. When you hit the hazards, it will pull in power regardless of the key's position. The switch also synch up both left and right signals so they will flash at the same time.


What I'm doing is make the hazards work only with ON. My hazards won't come on with the key OFF. I'm also using the trick flasher.


Go to your FSM. Unplug your hazards switch. Take the wire going into pin 1 and pin 2 and connect them. This makes your hazards only come on with ON.

Get a 3-pin toggle switch. When it's off, no pins are connected. When it's on, all 3 pins are connected. Connect the wires going to pin 4, 5, and 6 of the hazards switch.


With the toggle switch off, signals will work with key ON like normal. When you toggle on, both sides should flash at the same time because you're supplying power to the relay, and then connecting the output of the flasher relay to both sides.

The only issue you may have is that sometimes the left side will be out of sync with the right side. This happens when you have the turn signal stalked turned to one side, and then hitting the hazards switch.

The stock hazards cuts power and pulls power from a different source. This resets the blink rate and synch up both sides.

If you want to avoid this problem, just cancel the signal before activating the hazards. If it's really that big of a deal to you then you need to design a more complicated circuit.

[bardabe]

alright Im studying the FSM as we speak.... coffe pot burning, music playing, resources at the pc, and a highligter, woopeedee flippin doo.

[bardabe]

Wiring Diagrams. (I will edit as I update them)
this is what I got.
Charging system
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/Charging.jpg
Starter
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/Starter.jpg
Headlamps
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/Headlamps-1.jpg
Rear Lights
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/RearLights.jpg
Turn Signal
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/TSignals.jpg
Reverse and Stop light switch
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/My%20S13/Switches.jpg

[g6civcx]

What is Charging System and cluster? I assume the 1st one is the alternator and the 2nd one is your battery warning light on the instrument cluster. Be careful with your alternator because you don't want alternator overrun when the ignition is switched off.

What does the relay do? It's not clear how the pins are connected.

For the headlights, that's how Nissan runs it, but that's not how I would run it. The way you have it, you're drawing 30A through your headlight combo switch. This is not ideal.

I would run the headlight switch to the control pins of a relay, and then have that relay pull 30A straight to the headlights. Don't flow that much current to the switch.

I'm also putting the headlights on te Accessories circuit, which means headlights won't come on when it's OFF. I don't ever recall having a situation where I needed the headlights on with the engine off.

[bardabe]

What is Charging System and cluster? I assume the 1st one is the alternator and the 2nd one is your battery warning light on the instrument cluster. Be careful with your alternator because you don't want alternator overrun when the ignition is switched off.

What does the relay do? It's not clear how the pins are connected.

For the headlights, that's how Nissan runs it, but that's not how I would run it. The way you have it, you're drawing 30A through your headlight combo switch. This is not ideal.

I would run the headlight switch to the control pins of a relay, and then have that relay pull 30A straight to the headlights. Don't flow that much current to the switch.

I'm also putting the headlights on te Accessories circuit, which means headlights won't come on when it's OFF. I don't ever recall having a situation where I needed the headlights on with the engine off.

Yeah the Red/white wire goes to the cluster. (charge bulb) basically if that wire does not see 12V it wont charge the battery. that is the signal wire for the regulator.

the 2 white wires go straight to the battery its the Lead or what charges the battery, the Inline 75A fusible link is for safety. in case anything goes wrong (factory design?)

about the headlights i see what you are talking about and yeah it makes alot of sence, I'll change that arround tonight / later on today. but i will like to skill keep thenm constant 12V because i do sometimes use them w/o hte motor running.

[g6civcx]

Yeah the Red/white wire goes to the cluster. (charge bulb) basically if that wire does not see 12V it wont charge the battery. that is the signal wire for the regulator.

the 2 white wires go straight to the battery its the Lead or what charges the battery, the Inline 75A fusible link is for safety. in case anything goes wrong (factory design?)

about the headlights i see what you are talking about and yeah it makes alot of sence, I'll change that arround tonight / later on today. but i will like to skill keep thenm constant 12V because i do sometimes use them w/o hte motor running.

To tell you the truth I don't know how Nissan wires up the alternator. I'm using a 1 wire design anyhow so I won't have to deal with it.

The 75A fuse is to keep the alternator from drawing too much current and frying itself, and everything around it.

The headlight wiring has always been a pet peeve of mine. It's not a bid deal really, but it's not ideal and would be better to do it the way you said.

You can leave the headlights constant ON. Your choice. I just want to switch it because I always leave my lights on = dead battery :spank:

[bardabe]

updated the diagrams. still need Accesory diagram, and Ignition Diagram.

[bardabe]

Alright I had been off the ball for the past few days. I pulled my motor. redid the engine bay. and striped the car of it's Original harness. now it's time to Put together my New Harness. this is what I bought
-200ft 16 gauge wire
-100ft 14 gauge wire
-25 ft black 14 gauge wire
-6 relays
-2 power distribution blocks
-2 6 circuit fuse blocks
-1 8 circuit fuse block
-1 Push Start Button
-1 battery kill switch
alot of shrink wrap
alot of zipties
and electrical tape.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Garage001.jpg

I will cover the proper soldering methods, proper way to shrink wrap, and progress on my car. I don't intend to give you guys a step by step Standalone chassis rewiring. However this should give you a very good Idea into what you are getting your self into

Enjoy,

-Juan

[bardabe]

Today was a pretty productive evening. worked on it a few hours after school. I got the Relay Panel done, and hooked up the relays to the power distribution blocks.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone004.jpg

and this is what my Engine bay looks like right now
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone002.jpg

[johngriff]

Looking clean!!!!

[bardabe]

well worked ont eh car today, got a pretty fair amount of work done. should be done by next week. here are pictures of how I desided to mount my switches. I sill need to mount the Start button. which will go under the switch on the right.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone006.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone005.jpg
here is how the cluster looks now
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone010.jpg

and finally the engine bay shots.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Standalone007.jpg

[skippy]

looks like olot of work. im in the process of doing something like that cause it makes the engine bay look cleaner but I know nothing bout wiring and relays.

[Slidin240Wayz]

Very nice. I was like...where is the rest of the dash on the right?!?!?

Congratulations thus far and I hope everything starts up right away correctly and effeciently.

Carlos

[irax]

is your windshield shattered?

[bardabe]

is your windshield shattered?

negative. that is the white shit from the rubbing compound. Im going to have to rebuff and polish my car. =]

[bardabe]

Alright Guys lower harness + engine bay harness = done! pics now!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/standalone018.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/standalone017.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/standalone016.jpg
Enjoy!

[bardabe]

hey sorry to bump this old thread ha ha forgot to post the wiring diagrams i have made so far. I'll redo the rest that i haven't posted when i get home back in cali so you guys have an Idea. I'll try and get some videos of the car running and driving as well. (if it;s not sold by then)

-juan


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Switches.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/RearLights.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/TSignals.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Headlamps-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Starter.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/FairladyZ32/S13/Charging.jpg

[Flybert]

Good stuff man. Keep the wiring diagrams coming.

[attracted]

hey does anyone knwo how the speed sensor is wired between the sensor the ecu and the instrument cluster...gr8tly appreciated

[smelly240]

lol - ive never had working revers lights on any of my s13s... maybe ill wire that this weekend

[slw240sx]

yes exactly. that is what I thought. I will be using non of the OEM switches other than the ignition switch to lock the steering column. (safety purpose i guess) but no wires to it. Im basically going to run 30 amp relays to everything that is going to be powered straight from the battery. aftermarket switches with pushstart. something like this

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6306.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6311.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/theelitestprick/100_6312.jpg

that way all teh relays are hidden under the dash. fuse boxes in the glove box and then i just gotta run the
-Gauges, Cluster, stereo, ignition, ECU power. under the dash.
-Right headlight, turn signal, parking light, and Fan through right fender.
-left headlight, turn signal, and parking light through the left fender and
-the fuel pump, fuel level sender, both tail lights, turn signals, licence plate lights, and reverse lights through the rear Left of the car along with the main battery cable.

spliting the harness into sections should make it alot less complex. and cleaner ofcourse. make multiple grounding spots on the chassis to keep the grounds safe all the time.

I will however be adding a relay for the fuel pump and using thicker (14GA) wire to keep the fuel going all the time even at constant high speeds.

my ground spots are going to be as follows.

Headlights, turn signalts etc etc. all ont he frame rails (each side) to keep them short. under the dash it will all be grounded to the tranny tunnel, and the rear will be grounded on the frame rails as well. I will be grounding the battery on both frame rails that way in a sence everything is grounded straight to the battery.

I want to add a safety feature and put a batteyr kill switch that will also kill the charging system. so when i do leave my car parked outside there is no way to drive the car unless you have another car driving right next to it with an jumper cables. :bigok: how's that sound?


Haha , thats my ghetto setup. im probably going to redo that whole mess this winter, i have to ad a few new plugs in for stuff i completely over looked.

Jon