Just put new pads, rotors, and doesn't feel right.

[jav100]

Hey Guys,

I have a 96 240SX, and i recently went to Firestone and had my brakes done. I spent around $800 total! I put 4 new rotors, and 4 new pads.

Now, all I can say is that the brakes were better before I had this done...

1) I notice that I must really step into the brakes hard to make it stop. It doesn't have the "cushion or sponge" feel to it.

2) Sometimes the brakes lock up, if i press them firm. Especially in the rain.

Now, I went back to the place, and after bitching about it, they took it and resurfaced the rotors... It feels a lil bit better and has more of a grab, but It doesn't feel like an $800 brake job.

WHat do u guys think? I really jus have been driving normal? Do I have to do a special break in or something...

Thanks.

newbie in new brakes. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[HippoSleek]

I've got a feeling that you are going to have to learn to live w/ your new brakes.

1) there is a certain amount of play in a properly adjusted system and there should be a certain amount of pedal feel when you hit the brakes. &nbsp;However, unless you got a very aggressive compound OR bigger brakes, there is nothing they could have done to reduce pedal feel by installing OEM grade pads. &nbsp;My guess is that your old system was in really bad shape and you just got used to sloppy brake feel. &nbsp;My pedal has the FSM-spec amount of travel and requires very little pressure to full stop (w/ OEM pads).

2) &nbsp;lock up is a good thing. &nbsp;Again, you need to learn to modulate the pedal and *feel* right at lock up and adjust your pressure. &nbsp;Otherwise, good (non-abs) brakes should lock up - especially in the rain. &nbsp;It is up to you to prevent this. &nbsp;The only recommendation to cut down on this is new, grippier tires.

My advice is to take it to a parking lot or something (wet and dry) and work on your braking. &nbsp;Learn to feel lock up and adjust and learn exactly how much pressure will get you to stop a certain amount. &nbsp;And next time - DON'T let you brakes get in such bad shape that a shop rolls you for $800!! &nbsp;Come to us - we'll tell you how to fix them for waay less.

[hopeful]

4 pads or 8?

And if u spent 800$....

What is the point of like....anything!?!?

Why didn't you get like Brembo high quality stuff...

How much was labour and how much was parts?

When you went back the second time did they bleed the braking system?

[Red]

800$$$<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> Ouch man 588$ and you could have got cross drilld and pads from www.stillen.com and done it your self.

[hopeful]

and the labour plus 588 still wouldnt have been 800......

[DSC]

sounds about right. &nbsp;Local shop wanted $400 for new brake pads front and rear and just resurfacing the rotors. &nbsp;So for new rotors and a bit more labor $$ it sounds like the usual car shop ass raping.

Like hippo said, you'll just have to get used to the new feel. &nbsp;Also, next time just do it yourself. &nbsp;I dono how to do anything really and through the help of people here on this forum I was able to change my pads for the 1st time for very little money.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DSC @ Aug. 03 2002,10:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">sounds about right. Local shop wanted $400 for new brake pads front and rear and just resurfacing the rotors. So for new rotors and a bit more labor $$ it sounds like the usual car shop ass raping.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I've got a feeling some caliper rebuilding was involved here too. &nbsp;Rears in the 240 like to sieze. &nbsp;With that, I can see $800 being charged.

FWIW: I was thinking of this post this weekend - I put brakes on my gf's car b/c I happened to drive it and realized it was a sponge-pedal deathtrap. &nbsp;When she drove it, she thought the brakes were almost too stong.

[jav100]

Well, I've been trying what you guys have said.

I am trying to get the full feel for them. I've been trying to break them in, I read in some other post that you should try driving at 40MPH and then firmly but not panic-braking to 5MPH.

When I went to the shop (a FIRESTONE place), they said that the rotors were shot. Now they could have BSed me about it, but I chose to buy new ones because the car (it now has only 68k miles)was hooked up when I bought it, so I suspected perhaps they took some abuse, and it's better to be safe then sorry with brakes. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The one thing I don't like is the fact that it doesn't have the spongy feeling when you press on the brake. My friend has a GEO prism 96, and the brakes on that are wonderful.

[jav100]

BTW, I think they did put high quality stuff, I suspect this because the calipers, or rotors, or something I see through the wheel is painted red. (I don't know jack about cars, so please be patient with me).

I could have sworn my friend said those were Brembo, the shop had to order them out because they didn't have those in stock. I am going to find the bill and post the prices for parts/labor.

[240 2NR]

Well if the caliper (the painted part that sits over the rotor) is in fact a brembo unit, right on the side it would say BREMBO, as for $3000 you want everyone to know you got the best. I think it's unlikey though, and if anything the rotors may have been brembo (blanks can be had for under $50 a rotor) and the caliper may just be painted red with $10 worth of high temp paint. It's also likey that the parts were standard 240 sizes as even dealerships rarely stock anything for these cars and most parts are special ordered.

As for paying $800 for the change, it sounds like way too much. Parts alone shouldn't have totaled more than $400 ($100 per axle for porterfield pads, and around $200 in rotors for brembo blanks, my setup currently for new rotors and pads all around cost $70 for all my pads and $50 for both front rotors, plus about $15 in shipping, even a Z brake swap is under $600 without labor). Those are nice parts, and likely twice as expensive as the ones you got.

Having just swapped my front rotors for the first time and checking and replacing my front pads, I can say in my driveway, at an easy pace and using hand tools it only took 2 hours. At an experienced shop with air tools and a lift, that should be closer to one hour. The rears aren't much more difficult, so three hours of labor is around what I would consider reasonable (provided there was no caliper work needed). I would really like to see them defend $400+ in unskilled labor or $400 in raybestos parts.

Edit:: Forgot to include my *expensive* ATE Super blue brake fluid at $12 per liter. &nbsp;Typical brake fluid is around $5 and a liter should be more than enough to refill the system.

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jav100 @ Aug. 05 2002,08:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The one thing I don't like is the fact that it doesn't have the spongy feeling when you press on the brake. My friend has a GEO prism 96, and the brakes on that are wonderful.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you WANT spongy brakes? &nbsp;why? &nbsp;the firmer you can get the pedal, the better off you are, as you can modulate them easier, and the feel is more positive. &nbsp;come to illinois and drive my 240 with an SR and Z32 brakes. &nbsp;you'll start eating ramen tomorrow. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Eric

[Red]

LOL thats funny crap becus I cut all pop and out to eat out of my life so I could upgrade my car faster. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

As for breaks mine work like shit all the way around. I did a post on it but everyone just made wise ass remarks so I said Fuk it i'll figger it out myself. Cant lock it up at 70mph. I feel I dont have enought power I want to hold it right at the breaking point.....

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red @ Aug. 05 2002,1:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LOL thats funny crap becus I cut all pop and out to eat out of my life so I could upgrade my car faster. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

As for breaks mine work like shit all the way around. I did a post on it but everyone just made wise ass remarks so I said Fuk it i'll figger it out myself. Cant lock it up at 70mph. I feel I dont have enought power I want to hold it right at the breaking point.....</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
sounds to me like you have more tires than brakes on your car. &nbsp;what tires do you have? &nbsp;and are you on stock brakes and old-ass fluid? &nbsp;get new fluid, new rotors, and new pads, and your braking will improve 10-fold. &nbsp;get z brakes and it's 10 times better than that. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

by the way, for everyone out there...it's brakes not breaks. &nbsp;the latter is something you take at work when your boss isn't looking. &nbsp;the former is what makes your car stop when you realize grandma is going 50 and you're goind 85 and she's merging on you. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

Eric

[Red]

I have nice new sumoto or Sumetomo tires something like that. 205-45-16's 220 tread ware on stock rims... shit is sticky. I put new pads on every 8 months. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> I eat them up for some reason. They are sport pads tho lots of dust <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> ... My brake fluid is old I am going to get some of the high temp sport fluid soon as I’m back from GenCon. And my front and back disks are stock I don’t know if they ore original or newish but they are OEM and I am sure they are warped. Sure aren’t sport disks they loose traction if I punch the brakes hard at 90 it will stop real hard to about 60 and then it almost stops grabbing. heh that’s why I don’t do 90 anymore. Oh and I have a lot of peddle play. Its soft at top alright in the middle but I can put it to the floor punch it tell it hits the stopper (WHACK) and it just wont grab any harder. That’s why I eat at home now <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> saving for the 300zx upgrade. Or I may say fuk it and go crazy and do Brembo. Yeah right <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

-EDIT- I spell bad

[240 2NR]

A pedal that goes to the floor is a sure sign of old worn out brake fluid. By now it probably has a boiling point of under 200 F which is not good since it's nearly that hot under the hood of you car. &nbsp;Get some new fluid now and replace the "water" that is in there now.

If the brakes stop hard from 90 to 60 and then stops biting while the pedal stays stiff, you have crappy pads that can't take the heat. &nbsp;Changing pads every 9 months sounds a bit excessive unless you drive 40k city miles in that time.

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240 2NR @ Aug. 05 2002,2:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A pedal that goes to the floor is a sure sign of old worn out brake fluid. By now it probably has a boiling point of under 200 F which is not good since it's nearly that hot under the hood of you car. Get some new fluid now and replace the "water" that is in there now.

If the brakes stop hard from 90 to 60 and then stops biting while the pedal stays stiff, you have crappy pads that can't take the heat. Changing pads every 9 months sounds a bit excessive unless you drive 40k city miles in that time.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i second that.

but i would like to add that a smushy pedal can also be remedied by nice, stiff stainless steel lines. &nbsp;get those and eliminate the flex you may be feeling. &nbsp;

Eric

[West]

I swapped out my brakes this week and since I dont really know brakes to well other then how to do z32 brakes. I ended up letting some brake fluid out of the system to depressurize the caliper to get it back on. Even though I kept the brake cyliner full @ all times when doing this my brakes now only engage way later then what they used to. I never got a chance to bleed the system since I need another person to help me with it. This could be your problem but I dont see how they would forget to do something like this even if they had to mess with it.

[Red]

Ok I'll change my water (aka brake fluid) and Replace my pads...... I think early 2003 i will go to http://www.heavythrottle.com/ and get the 300zx upgrade. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;thanks. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red @ Aug. 05 2002,6:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok I'll change my water (aka brake fluid) and Replace my pads...... I think early 2003 i will go to http://www.heavythrottle.com/ and get the 300zx upgrade. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> thanks. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
sweeeeeet. &nbsp;you won't regret it. &nbsp;every day i stomp on those, i get a huge smile on my face...and i've had 'em for a year now! &nbsp;i get giddy on the boost, and giddy on the brakes. &nbsp;i love my car...except when it idles like crap. &nbsp;so i have to drive fast <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Eric

[jav100]

Ok guys, check this out now...


My brakes are now squealing like crazy...They squeal when I don't press the brakes, and they also squeal when I do apply the brakes...

And I am not going back to the same place, they already re-surfaced the rotor or something... Maybe it jus needs some brake spray ?

They feel a bit better, and have little bit of a bite to it, but not all that great. what do u guys think?

I am thinking of taking it to another palce, which specializes in brakes.

[240 2NR]

Do you have a parts list for what they installed on your car? &nbsp;That might help us figure out your problem.

Well if they are already making noise, then something wasn't done right. &nbsp;For $800 that place should be bending over backwards to keep you happy (unless they did some work you aren't telling us about). &nbsp;You have every right to demand they fix the problem. &nbsp;Too bad you have to use them to do the work. &nbsp;It would be nice to take it somewhere else you trust and send Firestone the bill for having it done properly. &nbsp;Its a shame that so many shops really fall under the stereotype of sleazy auto shops. &nbsp;I already met my stereotyped used car dealer, even their name was shady (shady grove motors in MD). &nbsp;

Any type of anti squeal spray/gel will require you to remove the pads, so it's up to you if you think its a job you can do yourself. &nbsp;If it is then the next time you can do all this brake work yourself and will have gained a better understanding of how your car works.

[Roly]

I just did my brake upgrade on my base model S14. Front and Rear Brembo drilled/slotted rotors for $230 shipped and Axxis non-metallic pads for $55 shipped. The brakes felt a little soft on Saturday when I did them, but as I've been breaking them in the grab is alot better. A tip for those, goto Pep Boys and get some break anti-squeal spray.

[jav100]

I am going back to the place today and requesting information on all the parts used on my brakes.

I never changed brakes before, so I don't know if I should do it or not, I would like to be able to do it myself.

I ordered a service manual for my car, would that help?

[uiuc240]

Brakes are one of the few systems on a car that are actually fairly simple and as long as you pay attention to what you're doing, you can't really mess them up. &nbsp;It's all spelled out in the shop manual (even the Chilton's has this). &nbsp;This would be a great thing to get your hands dirty with for a first-timer. &nbsp;About the only things more foolproof are intake, exhaust, plugs, wires, etc (tune-up). &nbsp;But out of the major systems, this is the easiest.

Eric

[240 2NR]

I second that. &nbsp;Basically brakes require a couple wrenches, sockets, a c-clamp, and some clear hose. &nbsp;It's pretty easy if you take your time. &nbsp;After you do one caliper you'll be a pro, and if you get lost there's always another assembled one to check.

Even without a manual, a search of the message board should provide you with enough step by step instructions.

OT:: &nbsp;damn, Eric is the master tech today.

[krymson]

Brakes ain't supposed to be spongy. The shop probably replaced your old crapified fluid with new stuff, so it feels different(should feel better)

new pads are gonna squeal unless you use anti squealing compound. Doin it yourself is fine but if it's the shop's fault, you should haul your car over and make sure they get the job done rite.