NEW Bolt on Part for KA24DE owners

[Iceman00]

And Its Dyno proven too.

http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/engine-performance-1993-2001/228446-ace-precision-tb-spacer.html

I myself haven't bought one, but I plan too very shortly. The results look very good to. Nice increace in low end power, and Better fuel economy.

[Iceman00]

For the record, I share the same name on this Fourm as I do there.

[S13 Charlie]

3 lb-ft.? and 1.3 hp? Dramatic gains, indeed...

[byhi]

wow, that is the best waste of 60 bucks for what? .006 cc of extra plenum volume? i cant believe you would think that that 60 dollar part is worth it

[Iceman00]

Your right. Looking at peak numbers tells the whole story. Lets not look at total Power gained from under the curve.

Idiot.

[McRussellPants]

lol TB spacers.

thats NICO tune to the max.

Tune it up with the HyperTek power programmer next.

[undesiredshoe]

i made one out of cardboard because i had a lot left over after i made a cooling panel

[BC240]

Throttle body spacers are not a *new* technology, I thought this post was a joke at first but its much funnier now that I realize its not :keke:

[Iceman00]

Who said it was New technology? Idiots.

[Iceman00]

For the record, I want you to find me a dyno proven mod that creates over 6wtq from idle, for around 6 bucks. Please. On an Automatic (which the car tested was)

[jmauld]

Just curious, but did you unplug the battery between those runs? I'm trying to understand how this thing caused a change in your A/F ratio.

[zugoi]

it doesnt fit for the sohc?

[shinrekka]

just make one if you realy need to have one.

[S14DB]

$60 for $3 of alum? I just called my machine shop and they can make them for $10~12 each. All they need is my TB.

KA does NOT need more plenum volume.

I don't trust that shop ether. http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=128520

[Iceman00]

Just curious, but did you unplug the battery between those runs? I'm trying to understand how this thing caused a change in your A/F ratio.
You do know that Adding a Intake or Exhaust can change your A/F ratio.

My only guess could be that the coolent bypass (which is part of this Mod) cools down temps enough to change it up in the slightest.

And Dispite it running slightly richer, people are reporting better fuel economy..

As far as not trusting a dyno, or not Beliving the KA needs more Intake Volume, that is up to you. I'm just trying to spread the word. Its Cool that someone took the time to make, and Test doing something like this for everyone.

[S13FREEAAK]

For the record, I want you to find me a dyno proven mod that creates over 6wtq from idle, for around 6 bucks. Please. On an Automatic (which the car tested was)

Well the dyno sheet says that it is flywheel horsepower, so therefore the extra power loss of an automatic wouldn't matter in that situation.

[irax]

can you find any other mod that $17 per 1hp? no? STFU!

[S13FREEAAK]

Yes, nitous. But with nitrous you will actually feel the power increase.

Or how about a Tornado, I heard those are awesome too.

[Iceman00]

Well the dyno sheet says that it is flywheel horsepower, so therefore the extra power loss of an automatic wouldn't matter in that situation.

You're Grasping at straws. Considering the Altima is rated at more Flywheel than a S13, how would it put down under what it is rated at? Church's Dyno rates power to the hubs, completely ignoring power that could be lost to wheel choice.

[Iceman00]

can you find any other mod that $17 per 1hp? no? STFU!
YOu answered a question with a Question, showing you have no Idea what is going on. Not every mod you do Is for peak power output. JWT cams are regarded as better than pdm, dispite PDM putting out moree peak power. Why? Becuase the Power under the curve is Greater.

Motordyne makes spacers for g35/350Z's that actually LOSE power in the upper rpm range. But it is still often regarded as one of the best mods you can do.

this mod is great for what it is, stop trying to downplay the results.

[jmauld]

You do know that Adding a Intake or Exhaust can change your A/F ratio.


How so?

And you didn't answer my question.

[CylonFrakker]

You guys do realize that this may be a small increase in power but in the greater picture with other bpu/apu parts it will be a major increase in the long run. Do understand on a stock motor it gained marginal amounts of power. But what would happened if it was on a fullt DE with a worked head designed to flow even more let say it comes with a custom intake manifold and you slap the TB spacer on do you not think it would make more power than that measley 1.3hp gain. Before and after proves it works. So depending on your current mods would depend on how well you do.

[Iceman00]

He only had on an Intake And Underdrive pulley

[Iceman00]

YOu answered a question with a Question, showing you have no Idea what is going on. Not every mod you do Is for peak power output. JWT cams are regarded as better than pdm, dispite PDM putting out moree peak power. Why? Becuase the Power under the curve is Greater.

Motordyne makes spacers for g35/350Z's that actually LOSE power in the upper rpm range. But it is still often regarded as one of the best mods you can do.

this mod is great for what it is, stop trying to downplay the results.

I misread. My bad Irax

[staygold24]

I wonder if this would make a good difference in sr's I know tb spacers help but people also make intake manifold spacers or something to cool it down. Dont know how much power is made but Im sure its cost effective.

[TurDz]

That's pretty cool to be able to achieve 90% peak torque by 2400RPM.

[McRussellPants]

Thats pretty cool to be able to fit your entire mods list in your sig.

[HyperTek]

lol TB spacers.

thats NICO tune to the max.

Tune it up with the HyperTek power programmer next.


chee u know it.. with a touch of useless viceroy bragging rights and you got yourself a sweet ride

[S13FREEAAK]

You guys do realize that this may be a small increase in power but in the greater picture with other bpu/apu parts it will be a major increase in the long run. Do understand on a stock motor it gained marginal amounts of power. But what would happened if it was on a fullt DE with a worked head designed to flow even more let say it comes with a custom intake manifold and you slap the TB spacer on do you not think it would make more power than that measley 1.3hp gain. Before and after proves it works. So depending on your current mods would depend on how well you do.

If you were making a custom manifold why wouldn't you add that 1/2 in. or however big it is into your manifold design?

[McRussellPants]

chee u know it.. with a touch of useless viceroy bragging rights and you got yourself a sweet ride


lol, I assume you think I was making a passing glance at you.


don't flatter yourself.

http://www.hypertech-inc.com/

[Iceman00]

Thats pretty cool to be able to fit your entire mods list in your sig.
OH No's! Bragging rights.

[LB.Motoring]

Bahaha,

homos.

[HyperTek]

lol TB spacers.

thats NICO tune to the max.

Tune it up with the HyperTek power programmer next.


don't flatter yourself.

http://www.hypertech-inc.com/

:p HyperTek = hypertech ??

its all gravy

[s13gold]

nice one........

[Iceman00]

I'm still waiting for A Good Negitive reason not to get this. So far, its just been flames.

[s13speeddrft]

because you could have one made for less money.....

[S14DB]

because you could have one made for less money.....
ditto :bigok:

[Iceman00]

ditto :bigok:
Wait. First it was a Bad mouth the mod



KA does NOT need more plenum volume.
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And Now you can Get if of Cheaper. Right. You an make your own intake too...


The pictures in my initial post are of the pressed phenolic w/ aluminum TBS.
Through Ace Precision's tests they found that with this design they are able to dissipate heat more efficiently than with the solid aluminum TBS. They manufactured this design in the process of working with me to develop the KA24DE TBS. So our application was the first to have this option.

Using aluminum isn't enough apperently.

phenolic is a composite material. picture particle board but made from a much heavier style impregnated resin type material instead of wood...

no problem. its a great material for things like this. it conducts heat well and is very durable. its like using wood but much better since it holds its shape well and is extremely hard. even cutting it requires proper gear...

And they make he spacer for other motors inclding the SR, VQ, and QR. Here is a QR's dyno gains

http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134693&page=4

[clutch kick drifter]

so little HP gain.. pointless! id rather go stick a blow dryer in my intake if i was in the much need of hp... or just turn up the boost :2f2f:

[BigVinnie]

Basic fluid dynamic principles involved, but only small gains...
Not worth $60 for a spacer. All it does is increase plenum volume.
Better off with a 62mm bored TB from max bore and porting the plenum yourself more gains across the board than a spacer can offer.
When will some one stop making cheap fabricated parts for the KA and just redesign a whole new manifold with short runners since that is what it needs for more HP and high end rev?

[Iceman00]

Basic fluid dynamic principles involved, but only small gains...
Not worth $60 for a spacer. All it does is increase plenum volume.
Better off with a 62mm bored TB from max bore and porting the plenum yourself more gains across the board than a spacer can offer.
When will some one stop making cheap fabricated parts for the KA and just redesign a whole new manifold with short runners since that is what it needs for more HP and high end rev?

Good answer, but I've seen test prove that there really is no gain in Larger TB. But for 60 bucks, and that large or an Increase down low, I think its Worth it. And Its not just something N/A guys can use.

As for your manifold Idea, for the cost of devlopment and Production, I doubt many people would buy it.

[slow40]

I'm still waiting for A Good Negitive reason not to get this. So far, its just been flames.


let it go...

[kenversusryu]

let it go...

forealz.

If you want one so bad go get one. To each his own.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Don't an assload of people here strip their cars to make them faster?

Yeah, it's free but how much "horsepower" do you gain by doing so?

$60 isn't much to increase dig out of corners. What, have you already spent it on your vinyl budget? I don't endorse this product, hell, I haven't even looked at it but I'm just saying that every little bit increases drive out of corners, which is exactly what NA KA powered cars need. Either that or a decent suspension so cornering speeds would be higher... you know what, I think I'll support the suspension a little more. Save up and buy some decent pieces for your suspension, you weak bastards.

My engine mods would take less than a line to write out.

[Thorpedo]

why don't mods take care of posters like mcrusselpants and others in these types of threads? all they do is downplay everything and waste space. people who say useless bs in other threads get handled with, why isnt this the same?

if the dynos are accurate, which i believe they are, this piece would be great for anyone with a stock manifold setup. whats the reason for people saying its shit?

they've been using the same technology in domestics and pretty much everything for a long time. it works. done and done.

[jobestudios]

Because it's rediculously overpriced, it doesn't yield enough gains to be considered worthwhile. And don't say every little piece helps in the long run, because in the long run if you're going to do an all out build, you're going to have an aftermarket intake manifold / throttle body, not a plasticardboard spacer.

[cmcdougle]

Bypassing the coolant? It's there for a reason.

There is also a reason that they used gaskets instead of o-rings.

This sounds like a cheeseball mod that, while it gives you an extra like 2 horsepower, screws up your engine at the same time.

[BigVinnie]

Good answer, but I've seen test prove that there really is no gain in Larger TB.

If you couldn't tell 62mm is the norm on most newer production model nissan, and Honda 4 bangers.Last I recall my friends H22 uses a 62mm TB....Obviously there are gains or the OEM guy's wouldn't be using them to begin with.LOL
Besides larger TB will lean out my already rich stock ecu tune, it doesn't hurt till you try it....

[Iceman00]

Because it's rediculously overpriced, it doesn't yield enough gains to be considered worthwhile. And don't say every little piece helps in the long run, because in the long run if you're going to do an all out build, you're going to have an aftermarket intake manifold / throttle body, not a plasticardboard spacer.
Oh please, How many people do an All out build? So Far, I think the quickest N/A Ka on our site is Faster than the Quickest N/A 240sx on this site. And He was running a Stock manifold.

[Iceman00]

Bypassing the coolant? It's there for a reason.

There is also a reason that they used gaskets instead of o-rings.

This sounds like a cheeseball mod that, while it gives you an extra like 2 horsepower, screws up your engine at the same time.

So tell me, what was the Reason it was there for?

[Iceman00]

If you couldn't tell 62mm is the norm on most newer production model nissan, and Honda 4 bangers.Last I recall my friends H22 uses a 62mm TB....Obviously there are gains or the OEM guy's wouldn't be using them to begin with.LOL
Besides larger TB will lean out my already rich stock ecu tune, it doesn't hurt till you try it....

Most manual Guys on the Altima boards (93-97) swap an Auto throttle body for thiers (Auto is 60mm, and manual is 55) they feel a gain, but I never heard of it being huge. All 97 1/2 + altimas have a 60mm tb. You really think they are going to notice a gain of 2mm?

As For the ECU, check the sig.

[irax]

can you make one for my 5mge 87 cressida?

[Iceman00]

can you make one for my 5mge 87 cressida?
I don't know if you're joking or not, But I don't make them, ACE Performance Does. They have done it for a number of nissan motors.

[irax]

i'm actualy serious this stupid thing is supposed to be my daily driver,
and its got freaking horrible gas milage and i did EVERYTHING from timing, spark plugs, air filter, tirepressure, EVERTHING! I will be lucky enough to get 19 mpg right now. And if people have been reporting better gas milage then shoot 60 bucks is waay beter than 150 for that tornado thas is proven to not do anything.

[Iceman00]

WHAT?! The Tornado has been proven to Do something!
(like be a total waste of cash)

IF what everyone is saying is true, a machine shop could make one for you for 12 bucks :rolleyes:

[Iceman00]

BTw...try lighter wieght oil. Less friction...

[S14DB]

BTw...try lighter wieght oil. Less friction...
OMFG... :ugh:

[Iceman00]

OMFG... :ugh:
Please, tell me how his motor will blow up from going from a 10w30 to 5w30. You seem to be a smart guy, full of one-liners, contradictions, and idiocy.

SHOW me I'm wrong.

And Your rep System Means SHIT to me considering you're still in the green.

[BigVinnie]

Please, tell me how his motor will blow up from going from a 10w30 to 5w30. You seem to be a smart guy, full of one-liners, contradictions, and idiocy.



Well for starters I run 10W-40 Castrol GTX if I oil myself, or 10w-40 quaker state at Jiffy Lube...
Different oils have different temperature ratings as well.
I wouldn't be caught dead using 5w30 oil in my high mileage KA24de, with my timing advanced to 32BTDC and iridium plugs, oil would burn and my rings would fry.....

Thicker oils hold up to higher temperatures, it's a simple fact.

Granted that a 5W is thinner oil, and is good for cold starts. But it only has a limited range when dealing with it's temperature. The higher the temperature outside of it's normal range of operation it will begin to become viscous and burn. It may use a multi grade which means that it can also function as much as 30w to it's temperature meaning 5w-30. Really most high mileage or mild mileage cars that are driven hard can use a thicker oil that would react better to higher temperatures. A 5W compared to a 10W doesn't really mean shit unless you really live in cold weather conditions that wouldn't allow thicker oil to move as well on a cold start. Engines are relatively broken in well after 20~60,000m anyway.


By Chemical Engineering

The oil's cold-weather weight is indicated by the letter "W," meaning "winter," as in 10W, which is gauged by the oil's viscosity at 0 °F. The warm-weather weight is based on the viscosity measured at 210 °F. Oils used to be sold mostly as single-grade products, and still are for some special uses, such as extreme weather conditions or for racing cars. But the viscosity range of single-grade oils is too limited for general use. That's where multigrade oils come in.

High-molecular-weight polymers (viscosity index improvers) such as poly(methyl methacrylate) and ethylene-propylene copolymer are added to a low-viscosity oil base stock to create multigrade oils that work through thick and thin. At cold temperatures, the rubberlike polymer molecules exist as balled-up coils and don't thicken the oil significantly, Bachelder says. But at warmer temperatures, they expand to more linear random coils to prevent oil from thinning out too much. Thus, common multigrade monikers-indicated by two grade numbers-are 5W-30 for colder climates (falling below 0 °F), 10W-30 for intermediate climates (down to 0 °F), and 20W-50 for warmer climates (down to 32 °F).


http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/84/8411oil.html


Yahoo even has more common sense...
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/air_filters_oil/ques120_1.html

[cmcdougle]

So tell me, what was the Reason it was there for?

Uhhhh, to keep it cool, maybe?


Oh please, How many people do an All out build? So Far, I think the quickest N/A Ka on our site is Faster than the Quickest N/A 240sx on this site. And He was running a Stock manifold.

Who wants to build an NA KA?



Please, tell me how his motor will blow up from going from a 10w30 to 5w30. You seem to be a smart guy, full of one-liners, contradictions, and idiocy.

SHOW me I'm wrong.

And Your rep System Means SHIT to me considering you're still in the green.


Use 20/50 in warm climates for improved efficiancy.




You guys. . .

[BigVinnie]

Use 20/50 in warm climates for improved efficiancy.



Slight correction on efficiency here.
A thinner oil such as a 0w or a 5w is as thin as it gets. OEM manufacturers now recommend using a 5w-30 for it's mild range in REGULAR AVERAGE driving conditions for gasoline powered engines. These lighter oils do improve fuel efficiency as well as probably a fraction of a HP. NASCAR uses 0w~5w-30 for maximum efficiency in HP. But once temperatures reach there limit the engines will only last lets say one race duration or 500miles on the track.
Newer hybrid vehicles use 0w~5w, but then again not much power or high temperatures coming from these engines either since energy from the electrical engine is used as well. This type of oil is also used to increase the gas mileage of the gas engine in hybrids.
As far as using a 10w-40, I live in California where temperatures range from 40degrees in the winter to 100degrees in the summer on average during the year.I typically don't need a 5W and it generally wont increase my fuel efficiency either. So what I was looking for was a oil that will react well to the variant temperatures of my high heat engine as well outside temperature. Also dealing with variant heat ranges to keep my oil pressure high rather than low, which is something a lot of people don't pay attention to when doing there regular oil changes. The Real key is to look for an oil that is best suited for your engine, to keep oil pressure high, maintaining HP, as well as fuel efficiency. You don't always have to follow what OEM says either, since they design engines for regular average driving conditions and temperature, which obviously vary in different locations around the world.

[irax]

so what will increase oil pressure typically?

[BigVinnie]

so what will increase oil pressure typically?

The weight of the oil will increase oil pressure.
As an example a 5w isn't as thick as a 10w and there fore can decrease oil pressure in a higher mileage engine.
I've always recommended use of castrol GTX 10w-40 for my friends that have over 100,000m KA24de's, never received a complaint and they haven't ever cared to change there brand or weight of oil.
My friend Anthony that works at Jiffy Lube can probably explain in detail much better than I can....
But he will never tell you about the 3000mile myth......LOL

[irax]

yeah some oils don't even break in untill 2k miles
When I had a dual oil filter and oil cooler setup I don't know how long i was able
to go with out needed an oil change (my oil cooler mount broke while driving)
But I did accumulate about 8.5k miles and the oil looked new still. Even on the ground the oil still looked clean.

[Iceman00]

Actually, My KA runs 5w-30 Year round (I live in Florida), and I have had 0 issues (besides oil leaks from using sythetic )

My friends K20 Powered SI I think uses 0w-20 or 5w-20, and that is recommended for year round use.

My point remains he could pick up a few MPG's my moving to a lighter wieght oil.

[Iceman00]

Uhhhh, to keep it cool, maybe?

WRONG.


Who wants to build an NA KA?

Apperently, many people considering there is a Sticky at the top of this Forum about it.





Use 20/50 in warm climates for improved efficiancy.

Says? I don't agree. I'm Sure My owners Manual says use "power saving" 5w-30 year round.


You guys. . .

I'm still waiting for the guy who said I'm wrong to come here and post :rolleyes:

[Iceman00]

Also, to get us further off topic, Wouldn't a oil being sythetic or conventional also have to do with its protection properties, and tempature rating?

[BigVinnie]

Also, to get us further off topic, Wouldn't a oil being sythetic or conventional also have to do with its protection properties, and tempature rating?

NO. The rating of oil is still the rating of oil, being conventional petro or synthetic.
The only true difference between conventional and synthetic is that synthetic is more refined, and can carry more properties to keep it from degrading faster than a conventional. Conventional being that it hasn't been recycled yet has more gumming compounds to it's chemical make up causing viscosity earlier, than a synthetic would.
Life span of conventional is about 6000m maximum, before next oil change.
Life span of synthetic oil can be between 15,000, and 20,000, and that would be determined by the brand that you use.....

Actually, My KA runs 5w-30 Year round (I live in Florida), and I have had 0 issues (besides oil leaks from using sythetic )


Call me when your oil rings take a shit. KA oil rings aren't your typical rings and are thinner rings than in most streetable engines you see to date..... Synthetic properties are different when it comes to leakage and it's not from it's weight but rather the additives that are added to synthetic.

[S14DB]

Energy Conserving is an API certification for certain additive packages that increase fuel economy. Not cause the weight increases efficiency.

[BigVinnie]

Energy Conserving is an API certification for certain additive packages that increase fuel economy. Not cause the weight increases efficiency.

True this is why I still use a 10w rather than a 5w, I really don't see the benefit using it in my KA.

[soreballz]

Uhhhh, to keep it cool, maybe?

Roffles. No. Coolant is hot. Hot liquid around the TB = heated intake charge.
Us SoCal (and other places where temps don't go into the freezing range) don't need those TB coolant lines. IIRC (don't quote me on this), they are only there to keep the throttle plate from freezing in place. I could be wrong on that, though.

[breakindrifts]

Do we really NEED these measly 3 tq 1 hp gain, why even bother thinking about this shit like we drive cavaliers or some shit car where every single 2hp bolt-on part is significant.
Turbo your KA for 1k and be done.

[Dream240]

Roffles. No. Coolant is hot. Hot liquid around the TB = heated intake charge.
Us SoCal (and other places where temps don't go into the freezing range) don't need those TB coolant lines. IIRC (don't quote me on this), they are only there to keep the throttle plate from freezing in place. I could be wrong on that, though.

Your half right, The coolant line is in place to warm up the TB to operating temps in cold conditions and then allow it to cool during hotter driving times. At times when the ambient air us upwards of 100 degrees (CA summers), the coolant that passes through allows a way for engine created heat and ambient air created heat to escape instead of overheating the TB and thus heating up the air that passes through it even more.

[irax]

Do we really NEED these measly 3 tq 1 hp gain, why even bother thinking about this shit like we drive cavaliers or some shit car where every single 2hp bolt-on part is significant.
Turbo your KA for 1k and be done.
If max gain was 3hp then fuck it
but max gain is like 15hp which makes a difference
and it smooths out the curv