Smog Legal Japanese engines? Inquire within.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Ok, first let me give you all some background information. I work for an emissions lab where people bring their euro market cars to be certified for the US. On a one off basis, this is really expensive, in the 10's of thousands of dollars. But, my boss said CARB may be able to issue an executive order that would cover SR20's if its handled correctly.
So my questions to you with SR's is...
1. Has anyone taken their car to a smog station and had it sniffed? If so, how close is it? do you have any numbers?
2. Do SR's have evaprative systems? i.e. a charcoal canister etc...?
3. Is anyone interested in possibly paying a reasonable amount to have their cars able to be street legal so you arent freaking out every two years when smog comes around?

The reason I want this is because I want to SR my car, and not have to freak out when smog comes around about finding someone, not to mention rules are getting harder about fudging a smog test and penalties are getting higher. Also I dont want to have to worry about getting my hood lifted if I get pulled over. This wont just apply to SR's it would probably be possible to do RB's and CA's also, as long as the chassis is USDM.

Hope some of you are interested.
Thanks



List as of 8:30 AM PDT 5/29/07
Name (Forum, user name), Car year, engine [possible problems]
If your name isn't red I need your email address.
Nate (Zilvia, driftsub), 95, S14 SR,
Pablo O (Zilvia, ?) ?, ?
? (Zilvia, xrockoutx) 89, Black
Oscar H (Zilvia, ?), 90, Redtop SR
Dave (Zilvia, Drift Freaq)S13, RB25DET
Yuri (Zilvia, Yuri), 89, Redtop SR
Chris M (Zilvia, ?) 93, ?
Danny C (Zilvia, ?), 93, ?
Danny C (Zilvia, ?), 96, ? [OBDII]
Jeffery C (Zilvia, ?), 95, Redtop
Tim R (Zilvia, timtiminy), ?, ?
Cameron (Zilvia, cmcdougle)95, RB20DET
Phil (Zilvia, coreansurfer)95, RB25DET
John Y (Zilvia, ?), S13, Blacktop
Tua H (Zilvia, ?), S14, Redtop [possible OBDII]
Chue H (Zilvia, ?), S14, blacktop SR [possible OBDII]
Xue H (Zilvia, ?), S13, Redtop SR
Gabriel A (Zilvia, Gabriel25), 97, ? [OBDII]
Brandon G-L (Zilvia, ?), ?, ?
Marshall J (Zilvia, ?), 96, ? [OBDII]
Tim M (Zilvia, delphis), 89, non-turbo [maybe a problem]
Kevin (Zilvia, KenshinS14sks), S14, ?
Kyle S (Zilvia, ?), 92, Redtop
Alex (Zilvia, Buntavy), 95, ?
Gavin (Zilvia, ?), ?, ?
Johnny P (Zilvia, ?) 89, Blacktop
Shawn W(Zilvia, hkss14sr20det) 95, S14
Mike (Zilvia, WISH ONE), ?, ?
Jesus F (Zilvia, ?), ?, ?
Javi R (Zilvia, ni5mo240), 91, Blacktop
A wei (Zilvia, wei240) 92?, ?
AJ (Zilvia, aj1356), 95, S15
Anthony T (Zilvia, lmananT), 92, Blacktop
James (Zilvia, ?), 90, Blacktop
Bua (CL)
Charles R (Zilvia, R-1chuk), 95, S14 SR
Richard R (?), 95, RB25DET
Will (Zilvia, Willow), 95, blacktop
Brian C (Zilvia, flipzide), ?, ?
Ron R (?), S14, ? [OBDII]
Yee (Zilvia, Tani 160), ?, ?
Yee (Zilvia, Tani 160), ?, ?
Yee (Zilvia, Tani 160), ?, ?
Dave C (?), ?, ?
Aaron (Zilvia, Agent_S13), 91, ?
? (Zilvia, S13Disco) ?, ?
Michelle G (Zilvia, DP_Michelle G) 90, blacktop
Charles N (Zilvia, s13 charlie), 91, redtop
Brandon E (NICO) 93, ?
Reid B (?) 89, ?
? (Zilvia, apexhumper) 95, ?
John (?) 92, ?
Andwele H (?) ?, ?
Tobe (NICO) ?, ?
Hieu V (Zilvia, bustaV13t) 95, blacktop
Bruno (NICO) ?, ?
Jerry (Zilvia, w0nderbr3ad)
Mel (Zilvia, !Zar!) ?, ?
Jason L (Zilvia, Aoshi112), 91, Redtop
Ernie (Zilvia, s13poop), S13, ?
Brandon B (Zilvia, staticbzer)96, s14 sr20det [OBDII]
James L(Zilvia, StaticX27), 95, S14
Niko P (Zilvia, grnappletree14), 95, redtop
Earl (Zilvia, domo dorigato), 96, redtop [OBDII]
Adrian H (Zilvia, ronmcdon), 96, S14 [OBDII]
Amir (Zilvia, SDS13Coupe), 89, Redtop
? (Zilvia, bfellini), 93, RB25DET [Silvia?]
? (Zilvia, driftage240), 91, Blacktop
John K (Zilvia, ProjNightshade), 95, S14
Eric T (Zilvia, 8o8cpv35), 93, S14
John (?) ?, ?
John (?) ?, ?
Vu D (?) 90, Blacktop
Jose R (?) 95, S15
Naser (Zilvia, Cnile51), 91, Redtop
Abel (NICO) 95, S14
Jeremy F (FA, formulaJEREMY) 93, Red
Steve K (FA, steve shadows) 90, ?
Yer (Zilvia, swift_style) S14, ?
Alan(?, ?) ?, ?
Ed (Zilvia, NISMO240SXSE1 ?, ?
? (Zilvia, akito) ?, ?
? (Zilvia, initialrt) ?, ?
? (Zilvia, gt3071r240)?, ?
Jason M (Zilvia, slapinfunk 96, ? [OBDII]
Mike (Zilvia, s13 coupe) 95, S14
Chris T (NICO, ?) ?, ?
Luis F(?, ?)?, ?
Matt (Zilvia, Ranger240)90, ?
Don (Zilvia, fullmetalx) 91, ?
? (Zilvia, misfitsfreak81) 95, redtop
Jeremy (FA, fro20) 92, black
Patrick (Zilvia, ballr858) 93, Red
Scott (Zilvia, FaLKoN240) 91, Red
Derrick (Zilvia, S14tiger) 98, RB25DET [OBDII]
Jim (Zilvia, HKsilvia) 92, S15
? (Zilvia, gigimow)90, ?
Rick (Zilvia, Double_R) 89, Black
Emmanuel (Zilvia, drifting_sil_eighty) 91, Red
Garrett W (Zilvia, drifting_sil_eighty) 89, Red
Ross (zilvia, rossfashow) 89, Red
? (Zilvia, rb13ski) 89, RB20
Luis C (Zilvia, K's_silvia2.0) 91, Red
Alex (?,?)?, ?
George C (Zilvia, Kaneda774)89, ?
Max (Zilvia, infamax) 89, ?
Justin J (Zilvia, na3j nitsuj) 90, ?
Bryan G (Zilvia, El Ray)
Jordan (Zilvia, gsxrjjordan) 91, red?
Kendrick D(Zilvia, hispeed) 90, ?
Robert L (Zilvia, Kuroi) ?, ?
Jason E (Zilvia, ReLevent1) 92, ?
Kyle P (Zilvia, ?) 92, ?
Luke D (FA, Iknownothings) 89, red
Eric H (Zilvia, turboeic)96, RB20DET [OBDII]
Nathan W (Zilvia, drift_wood) 90, ?
Zack (Zilvia, gordonliu) 92, ?
Zack (Zilvia, gordonliu) 90, ?
Ethan (zilvia, roboticnissan) 90, Red
Teddy D (SR20Forums, Teddy) 90, Red
Jared C (?,?) ?, ?

Young P (Nico, 180fan)89, black
? (Zilvia, redsuns3838) 96, S14 [OBDII]
Pete (Zilvia, Petex) S13, Red
Brandon (?, ?) S13, Red
Matt F (Zilvia, uthemofo) S13, Red
Darius (Zilvia, Darius_tii) 97, S14 [OBDII]
? (Zilvia, s14slide)?, ?
Mike (Zilvia, ixfxi) 90, black
Luis B (SR20, 91hatchsocal) 71, ? [Z-car]

Luis B (SR20, 91hatchsocal) 91, ?
? (Zilvia, skylindrftr) 90, Red
? (Zilvia, spitfire7) 91, Red

Eldridge M (?,?) 92, Red
? (Zilvia, sileighty83) ?, ?
Skylar S (Zilvia, TheSquidd) ?, Red
Rusty E (NICO, rustest86) ?, ?
? (SR20, 96_b14) 91, Black
George S (Zilvia, georgesal) 90, black

Jason C (?,?) 91, Red
Nash (Zilvia, panama DRIFT) 91, ?
Enrique (240forums, NISMOlvr) 92, Black
? (FA, rusted180) ?, ?

Won C (?,?) ?,?
? (Zilvia, RB S13) ?, ?
? (Zilvia, Paseo654) 92, ?
? (Nico, Jeyded) ?, ?
David J (Zilvia, zenki-217) 95, ?
Alistair S (FA, ?) S13, ?

Brian C (?, ?) 97, S14 [OBDII]

Andy Mc (Nico, Whiplash Willy) 90, Black

Richard (240sxforum, rabit1132kid) 95, ?

Steve D (240sxforum, rexbo) ?, ?

? (Zilvia, usdmsilvia) ?, ?

HT (?, ?) ?, ?

? (Zilvia, Jay Dee M) ?, ?
? (Zilvia, duffman1278) 89, Red
? (Zilvia, xblack240x) ?, ?

William S (NICO, JustinStrife) 90, S14
Hugo S (?,?) 93, Red
Marc P (Nico, ?) ?,?

Glenn N (Zilvia, ?) 90, Black
Glenn N (Zilvia, ?) 93, Red
Chris S (Zilvia, icedoutsoulja13) 91, ?
Jimmy Mc (?,?) (3, ?
Steve T (Zilvia, Turkey22) 91, Red
? (FA, tricorp) 98, ? [OBDII]
Mike D (Zilvia, bullitt4110) 89, ?
Noah S (?, ?) ?, ?
Darren O (Zilvia, DoriftoPnoy) 97, S14 [OBDII]

[Flybert]

Of course people are interested and yes, SR's use a charcoal canister. Just start listing prices and what kind of parts people would have to run to make it legal. Would you have to run stock injectors, MAFS, BOV, ECU or would you have to have a stock SR because that's no fun. Or is it solely based off of passing a smog test and the parts don't matter? There are people around the country that pass smog with SR's so I'm sure it's possible.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Well I know people around the country do, but I am talking about a CARB executive order.
I dont know what its going to take, I am just trying to guage interest and to have facts and not opinions to give to him.
thanks for replying though

[pablo180]

This is one of the main reasons why I sold my SR powered S13.
Out of curiosity, which emissions lab do you work for?

Also, have any exective orders been issued in the past? If so, for what cars?

Pablo

[soreballz]

I've heard of SR's passing the sniffer test with no cat. Not sure how true that is, though.
And yes, I'm sure LOTS of people would be interested in this just so long as its 100% legit (rather than some loophole that won't be open for much longer like the propane idea).

[TheTimanator]

1. Has anyone taken their car to a smog station and had it sniffed? If so, how close is it? do you have any numbers?
not in california, but I've pasted mine in TN so have many others.
Our standards aren't quite as strict but there have been a few people on the boards that said the sniffer test just fine...but only failed when they popped the hood. :down:

[wootwoot]

Lets just try and get e85 going as well. 105 octane for the streets and easily passing sniffer would be nice. Ive never understood the visual test. If you pass the sniffer and have all the other required equipment, why the f does it matter?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Well in california there is alot of extra laws the other states dont have I dont know all of the specifics but I do know
You cannot have a breather,
if you modify the engine such as an intake, exhaust, chip, ignition parts etc, it has to have a CARB sticker.
the evaporative system must be intact.
you cant have any disconnected vacuum lines.
your timing has to be within a tolerance of factory spec
your gascap has to hold pressure...
um thats all I can think of.

The cars we have issued E.O's for are
Porsche 959's (mostly)
McLaren F1's
various ferraris and lambos
A few different non-diesel mercedes and BMW's
and alot of different smaller Harley Davidson manufacturers as well as chinese, thai, korean, italian and indian scooter manufacturers.
and also aftermarket companies such as nology.
It would be 100% legit, CARB E.O. in hand if it works out, the biggest factor right now I think is getting enough people in California interested.

[GSXRJJordan]

the biggest problem isn't interest... it's the fact that since SRs arent legal anyway, NOBODY has a stock SR with all the emissions crap intact (yes, we all know some lame guy with a stock SR, its just a generalization). Also, no SR parts have CARB stickers because the SR isnt CARB legal - that comes later. It's an excellent first step, and once we start talking numbers I think a lot of people will get on board, but a bunch of us will still be dodgin those vis inspections.

[zugoi]

im sure if theres an easy way to make their SR carb legal with eo numbers all sr owners will be interested.

[WilloW]

I would like to know more about this.

[dirtdiggler666]

it kinda makes me wonder ok my car is not sr its stock ka. but when i bought it to change ownership you have to smog it, and i had to go to a test only gov station and yes im in cali. well i took it their it passed with no problems, so i took it have and started to take it apart to build it. and noticed that it dident have a stock muffler it was a stright thru pipe type of muffler then i took off the cat and their was no hunnycomb shit it was stright thru. hummmmm that just makes me wonder

[sr20drifter1]

I live in VA and I have a '98 blacktop S13 Sr20det. I took it to a gas station to have it inspected. It failed the first time.When they changed the O2 sensor, it passed without any problem. I always take my car to the same guys to have it inspected.I'm completly street legal.

[Cashizslick]

^ Thats the thing - California is where the problems for SR owners are . . .


In most other parts of the country, if it says Nissan on the motor, its considered legal.

[steve shadows]

^ Thats the thing - California is where the problems for SR owners are . . .


In most other parts of the country, if it says Nissan on the motor, its considered legal.

Technically According to FEDERAL EPA standards it is not legal anywhere.

CA is just overactive, like really hyper about smog regulations and have their own dedicated beuracracies for it.

[xrockoutx]

Though it doesn't help much, my blacktop passed the sniffer test with flying colours in Reno, Nevada.

[projectRDM]

Problem is, you're dealing with a community of very limited funds and very high ignorance. I'd say 75% of current 240SX owners don't care to spend the money for something tangible, and don't understand the benefits or the pitfalls of failing/passing legally when they can just throw change at a dirtball emissions tester and forget about it. These kids simply do not care about the fact that an SR swap of any kind is still illegal, no matter how cool it is. I think you're going to have a hard time proving that it's a viable option for an EO number and that it will benefit those drivers in the long run, especially since they'll have sold their cars or stuffed them into a tree and moved on to the next thing when you finally have something solid formed. Good luck but don't get your hopes up too high.

[Wei240]

this thing is analogous to legalizing/importing jdm stuff like skylines,
most people would want it, yes, but most are broke/cheap
unlike those mclaren, lambo, porsche, harley owners

but go for it, see what you can find/do, maybe this thing can work out...

there was a couple people here that works for emissions/smog centers, they should have alot of numbers for you... if they're willing to share...

[PhilthyS13]

I really don't think an SR will pass CA emissions, cat or not. I don't think sr's have an egr, which is one reason the visual component is required on a test. I don't think any jdm cars have an egr for that matter. The egr lowers CO2 levels, so when my car was on the sniffer (with a cat), the CO2 was off the scale. Plus, every 240 I know of is getting those damned Test Only notices. Maybe you can weld two cats together (some cars come with two).

On a side note - I was reading the uk sr20 fsm and I think the UK sr's have an egr, which might make passing easier. It might be easier starting from there.

Just register the car in an area where smog is not required (except when selling the car). That would be in a gray area on this map:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/program_map.pdf

I thought about doing that, but it still won't stop some overzealous law enforcement officer from ruining my day with a ref ticket. I keep hearing that they're going to change this law, but it hasn't happened yet.

As far as legalizing the sr20 - I don't think it's gonna happen any time soon. We're all too poor to shell out the cash for that. And if I had that kind of cash, I'd have a BMW.

[irax]

if you want I have a friend with a completely stock SR with emissions on it, ill direct him to this link.

[sileighty83]

I had a semi stock SR and exhaust... passed in Oregon and thats at a GOV. run station they are strict to cause they r all tree huggin hippes and evironmentalists but im hella interested in legalization! long story short... car was stolen wth motor going to get another SR

[Tenchuu]

I had a semi stock SR and exhaust... passed in Oregon and thats at a GOV. run station they are strict to cause they r all tree huggin hippes and evironmentalists but im hella interested in legalization! long story short... car was stolen wth motor going to get another SR

depends what part of OR it is in. only two counties have emmissions. all the rest of the state falls under the "must not obstruct the view of other motorisit" emmissions law.

[coreansurfer]

my rb25 passes the sniffer with flying colors, but fails the visual, i live in oc

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

This pretty much only applies to people living in Cali, you guys in the other states pretty much get away with whatever.

R240- I think you hit the nail on the head, seems like people dont care if they can find a way around the law.

The reason I want this done is to be able to have a legit SR20DET powered 240sx. I dont want to have to look over my shoulder all the time and worry about getting reffed. I also dont want to have to pay someone to pass my car illegally. My goal is to get this cert around $300- 400 per car for the life of the car. Not upwards of $150 bucks every time smog rolls around (what I have heard it costs). Not to mention having the comfort of if I do get reffed having the paperwork saying that my car is legit.

Philthy- An EGR is just one means Nissan used to cut emissions, just like a catalyst or air injection. Under a CARB e.o., if the car passes tail pipe emissions it will not need it. There are plenty of cars without Exhaust Gas Recirculation that will pass smog.

My bottom line is, is anyone interested in paying around $300-400 to have a certified SR or RB or CA powered 240?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

my rb25 passes the sniffer with flying colors, but fails the visual, i live in oc

And you're not alone I know of a few people that have RB series motors that will pass sniffer and not visual

[coreansurfer]

if you could legalize my rb id give you more than 400

[PhilthyS13]

Philthy- An EGR is just one means Nissan used to cut emissions, just like a catalyst or air injection. Under a CARB e.o., if the car passes tail pipe emissions it will not need it. There are plenty of cars without Exhaust Gas Recirculation that will pass smog.

My bottom line is, is anyone interested in paying around $300-400 to have a certified SR or RB or CA powered 240?

I think it's required, which is why all the above mentioned engines won't pass visual. If it wasn't required, why would egr inspection be the first step in the visual component? If your egr is modified in any way, you fail - which is why I think it's an essential component.

From: http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp?Body=/Geninfo/OtherInfo/Vehicle_Inspection_Report_Glossary-May_1996.htm

"EGR Functional: During the Smog Check inspection, the technician performs a functional test of the EGR system per the vehicle manufacturer's instructions. This ensures the EGR system is operating as designed.

EGR Visual: As part of the Smog Check inspection, the technician performs a visual inspection of all emission components the vehicle is equipped with, including the EGR system. The technician visually inspects the EGR valve and associated plumbing for defects or modifications. The technician will either pass or fail the EGR visual test based on observations made during the test."


But please sign me up for the legalization. I'm in.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Philthy- This refers to vehicles that were equipped with an EGR. if you look in the wording,
"As part of the Smog Check inspection, the technician performs a visual inspection of all emission components the vehicle is equipped with, including the EGR system. The technician visually inspects the EGR valve and associated plumbing for defects or modifications. The technician will either pass or fail the EGR visual test based on observations made during the test."

To my knowledge no JDM engines are equipped with EGR's because it is probably the most barbaric way of emission reduction possible and robs you of alot of horsepower. Therefore under the certificate an EGR would not be required.

[Vatche]

for anyone who passes smog , thats great but you will not pass a test only station with an SR. and the visual part is bullshit, my car passed sniffer with no cat. no egr, with upgraded fuel pump. no charcoal canister, no egr. just visual that gets us.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Ok wow, this is the point of getting it a certificate, sure it will pass a sniffer, we gotta work on gettin a cert to be legal

[StaticX27]

So you know, I'm getting my SR smogged within the next few days, I'll get you the number read outs when I go down next week. I'd happily pay $300-400 for a certificate saying its a legal motor. Keep us posted

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Static- if you could do that it would be immensly helpful.

If anyone else could to it would really aid in the process

[timtiminy]

okay just to answer you breifly and to the point. i would pay the $400-$500 to get my SR CARB certified and be completely legal. I dont have an SR just yet but when i do finally get it i want to have peace of mind.

[ni5mo240]

Philthy not all cars come with EGR systems, so not all cars have to have it when you get smog check done, but unfortunately 240's came with it so it must be present in the visual inspection. SR's only have air injection and no egr, so when you try and go to smog it the tech looks for emission components that come on that car, he doesn't see egr, you fail visual, and ka's dont come turbo so when a tech sees the turbo in your SR you also fail for that, so you can't try and pass a sr for a ka, it's too ovbious.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Timtiminy- werd that exactly what I want this project to be about!

ni5mo- werd also, thats what this cert will hopefully cover, more details soon!

[ni5mo240]

tknbkthrsdy4anfg- tell your boss that SR's came factory in japan with air injection, evap (charcoal canister), a three way catalytic converter (wich reduces NOx), pcv system, and a turbocharger. That's all the emission components I can think of, I don't see why it wouldn't pass sniffer

[GSXRJJordan]

If it could be CARB EO'd, you'd still have to take it to get 'sniffed' for smog right? It wouldnt be like a "get out of smog free for life" card right? Even so, I'd be down for $400.

[drift-it]

I think what your trying to do is great, but in CA theres so many rules and regulations it's hard to be legit, if for some reason you can figure a way to make it 100% legal in CA no loop holes count me in.

[StaticX27]

Carb sticker will at least make it so you don't have to pay your smog guy $250, you can pass a mildly modified car at a regular smog station for $50. Carb stickers will basically exempt you from the visual (to some degree)

[pablo180]

I'd happily pay $500+ to get the SR legalized.

[Addicted2Kouki]

interesting. lemme know if any progess.

[xrockoutx]

I'd pay the fee too, when i move to CA. I'll email you a copy of my smog print out.

[redsuns3838]

I would happily pay 500 or more. But could it work for OBD II cars? Because Srs didnt come with OBDII so if you have an OBD II car its extremely hard to get it smogged..

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Reduns- I thought S14 sr's were OBDII?
Jeff- yes you would still have to get sniffed.
Drift-it- Thats the plan

[Hoobuttacrew]

My question is a bit off topic but I was wondering if I do a vq35 swap into my 1991 240 will it pass smog? what will I need from the donor car to assure this? I know each car passes on its own but im curious as to a hybid between the two. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[ni5mo240]

you need all the emission equipment that came in the donor car

[kenshinS14sks]

holy crap, get me certified. that would be so nice, having a street sr no worrying about ref tix. not having to worry about taking the car back to 160hp status... *sigh* only if~...

tknbkthrsdy4anfg - how plausible do you think this is? what have you found through your research, and what needs to be done?

[Hoobuttacrew]

But the car would pass the visual inspection? Im really looking for a legal alternative to a jdm swap and the vq seems to be the way to go. I just wanna make sure I get everything right the first time. Im looking to pick up an entire car (salvaged) and use alot of the parts i.e. seats, brakes, powertrain and any needed electrical stuff to get it carb approved.

[!Zar!]

But the car would pass the visual inspection? Im really looking for a legal alternative to a jdm swap and the vq seems to be the way to go. I just wanna make sure I get everything right the first time. Im looking to pick up an entire car (salvaged) and use alot of the parts i.e. seats, brakes, powertrain and any needed electrical stuff to get it carb approved.
Um... Start your own thread.

Everything you are thinking about has already been talked about. So you have a choice to search or start a new thread in chat. You decide.


Legalizing an sr? If this is more than a pipe dream than I'm down.

[bigOdom1]

heres how to not worry about sr legality: MOVE TO ALABAMA

[10-66kruk]

a legal sr hell ya sign me up. I am procrastinating just becuase i wanna do an sr swap. Thing is i don't even have a 240 im will sooon and if i can do a smog legal sr helll id pay the 500$'s sure. keep us posted

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

UPDATE!:
"...FYI: As long as the car passes a certification test it could have 10 turbochargers, NOZ (:keke:) and N0 egr or air pump. The visual test is done to assure the car has the same emission's equipment on it as it did in certified condition. We will be re-certifying the engine and car... Provided it passes the certification test... our under hood label will state what equipment is required."

Handed down from the boss himself!

So my question to you is who has numbers?? StaticX27 is going to give me numbers for a S14 sr in an S14. Anyone have S13 numbers blacktop or red?
If you do, and are willing, send your chassis year, engine model, mods and numbers to [email protected]

As far as I know, a seperate certificate will need to be issued for each SR. As in one for the S14 SR, and one for the black top and one for the red. But hopefully since all the research I have done shows that the black and redtop SR's are more or less the same one should cover both.

I hope this turns out not to be a pipe dream, but it sounds like interest is the limiting factor right now!

Big odom1- Cali > Alabama :)
Pablo- that FSAE is sick!

[Flybert]

Everyone will be interested in it. The limiting factor is cost.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Well yea, people interested in paying that cost.

[brainfood]

I would pay $500 or so to have it legal maybe a bit more. I can see people paying that easily if it goes through.

[redsuns3838]

i was told the SR does not use OBD II in japan. so no OBD II SRs. So for people with OBDII cars that makes it extra difficult to smog, and more costly. So i think legalization would be worth a great deal of money. Id be honest if I was keeping my 240, (and maybe I would if I could get it legalized) I would easily have paid more than 500 to not have to drive the car in fear 24/7. Hell my coilovers cost 3x that much. 500 is chump change compared to what you pay for under the table smogs and god forbid a ref ticket.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

okay, shouldn't make a difference.
Anyone know for sure?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Okay, so another step forward, since the SR20DE was certified in the US (yes I know it was non-turbo and FWD and they arent exactly the same engine) But its a start. However it looks like to be certified it will have to be in a certain configuration, tested and spec'd by us. Its not as esay as just posting better smog check numbers. The certification test isnt a matter of driving at two differnt speeds with the sniffer either. The exhaust system has to be sealed into a sampling bench and then a trace is followed simulating actual driving conditions. A cold start test is included followed by a hot soak and hot start. I will keep you all updated and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[rps13sr20det]

sure is nice to live in canada! i can pollute as much as possible and NOTHING :)

[EchoOfSilence]

yeah! pollution's cool!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Yea exactly, who wants to be able to breath in 10 years?

[cmcdougle]

I'd pay $400 to get mine legal. If my car were legal, that would be way more than enough to convince me not to sell it.

[rb25crazy]

man this is bad ass! how long is this gonna take before you can get the ball rolling with an actual certificate and the price for this incredible service? this is the only thing stopping me from going rb or sr also.

[coreansurfer]

ill let you guys use my car as a test car for the certification

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I dont know exactly how long its going to take.
The current issue is whether we can partially carryover the cert from the USDM SR20DE even though it is front wheel drive.
EDIT: and non turbo
From the numbers that Rockout gave me its not too far off from my KA, but its not that easy
it has to go through a more stringent test then just a sniffer like I said before...
I compiled some data but its pretty basic and readily available, like bore, stroke hp, that kinda stuff
if anyone has any technical info about the nitty gritty diferences between the red's blacks 14's and FWD DE's that would be great!

[cmcdougle]

ill let you guys use my car as a test car for the certification

You can use mine, too. I have an RB20DET in my S14. It will be pushing 300rwhp in about a month (I'm hoping), so I don't know if you can use it still. LMK, if it isn't going to be too long, I might wait on the upgrades.

I dont know exactly how long its going to take.
The current issue is whether we can partially carryover the cert from the USDM SR20DE even though it is front wheel drive.

I wouldn't think it would make a difference, being front wheel drive. the drivetrain doesn't change the emissions!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I wouldn't think it would make a difference, being front wheel drive. the drivetrain doesn't change the emissions!

The problem is some things (I dont know them) are different between the two SR's. also the USDM SR has an EGR

[Wei240]

you can find alot in sr fsm's in terms of exact numbers, i've only seen the one for s14 and s15, i don't think i've seen s13's in english...,
obviously fwd sr's, you can get fsm readily available here

[motonagam]

Philthy- An EGR is just one means Nissan used to cut emissions, just like a catalyst or air injection. Under a CARB e.o., if the car passes tail pipe emissions it will not need it. There are plenty of cars without Exhaust Gas Recirculation that will pass smog.


Not specific to Nissans, but some cars that do not have EGR uses variable cam timing of the exhaust cam as EGR... it advances the exhaust cam timing so the exhaust valves close sooner during the exhaust stroke, thus trapping some of the exhaust gas in the cylinder for its next combustion cycle.

[BOROSUN]

so, if i get my car cert. tested and now 2 yrs has passed, i need smog. do i just show the smog tech the cert. papers or is it already on the system, showing up as sr?

[NISMO240SXSE1]

I want to sr my car as well but the legal issues are stopping me,not money issues. This IS my daily driver so I'd hate to always be tripping about getting stopped. Fuck it if my ka project fails I'll probably swap it anyways.

[g6civcx]

This thread is great. Keep up the good work and fight the system.

I'm leaving the SR for the LSx platform, and this is one of the primary reasons for my doing so.

I live in VA and I have a '98 blacktop S13 Sr20det. I took it to a gas station to have it inspected. It failed the first time.When they changed the O2 sensor, it passed without any problem. I always take my car to the same guys to have it inspected.I'm completly street legal.

With all due respect, you are incorrect. VA has a very strange way of interpreting the legal code. "Standard make" should mean "OEM-equivalent"; however, the police and courts interpret the term to mean "originally equipped from the factory".

I'm in the same boat as you are though. We pass state inspection with no problems, but our cars are still not federally legal.

I hope we could have a more intelligent legal system, but that would be asking for too much.

[delphis]

well if you need a test subject for the sr20de jdm rwd version I have one in my car. I am currently running a slightly janky setup though, but soon I should be running it with all the stock ecu and everything that the car is suppose to run with.

currently I am running the sr20de with the ka24e ecu and a janky wiring harness but I will be replacing it with the full stock sr20de setup in the next month or so. So I will be glad to be a test subject at your facility and I live in antioch and work in berkeley. I would love to get this dcone because I have to some how legally smog it by the end of feb.

[HKsilvia]

to tknbkthrsdy4anfg (dang ur name is hard to spell...jk) :
u are a hero that giving us SRdet owners light from the dark. thank you for doing such project no matter it will succeed or not.
i can give you all my support available on achieving SR legal task, im using a S15 engine and im glad to use it to help u as a test subject. i even have the FSM available. and if you can really get SRs certified, i would definitely pay to certified it. im getting really sick of CA cops popping hood issue on all other zilvilians and such. i bet our SRs have better emittion than hot rod!!
sry for my poor grammer just want to know i will give you my full support. pm me if u need help and keep us update!!!

[!Zar!]

Just make sure to do the sr20det's... And nothing gay like a sr20de.

Even if emissions parts need to be made it would still be worth it.

If you can come through with what you say you want to do my daily will be fun.

[billgerth]

to tknbkthrsdy4anfg (dang ur name is hard to spell...jk) :
u are a hero that giving us SRdet owners light from the dark. thank you for doing such project no matter it will succeed or not.
i can give you all my support available on achieving SR legal task, im using a S15 engine and im glad to use it to help u as a test subject. i even have the FSM available. and if you can really get SRs certified, i would definitely pay to certified it. im getting really sick of CA cops popping hood issue on all other zilvilians and such. i bet our SRs have better emittion than hot rod!!
sry for my poor grammer just want to know i will give you my full support. pm me if u need help and keep us update!!!

werd. despite the fact that there are a ton of dreamers and/or cheap asses on here who would rather deal with smog every 2 years, this thread obviously proves there are a significant amount of people interested.

keep it up tkn. this if for all of us who know this can be done, we've only needed someone with the resources and ambitions to get the ball rollin

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey everyone, sorry I havent been on in a while, i've been out doing stuff including rolling my fenders (wow that was a pain in the ass) and almost getting killed passing douchebags in accords on the touges around the napa valley.
So, here is what I am thinking, the FWD SR20DE in the state of CA's eyes is close enough to a RWD SR20DET to give us a little leway with the state. It should not be that hard getting it to pass (we have our own inhouse piggyback ecu and tons of experience using map tuning to pass smog) and the DET is close enough already that all I really need is the support. I am glad that a bunch of you have written, I am going to use this to help support my case. Because basically if I did the swap myself, I have the resourses to get mine legalized. but whoop dee doo, that doesnt do anything for the community of people that are driving LEGIT imports. So, I really want this to happen for the benefit of the 240sx community, but also to better the name of import drivers in general, and to rub it in the face of cops who harass us. Also, dont we all dream of making a name for our selves?
My arguements to take to my boss are:

*The SR20DE has been legalized in CA, it's probably close enough in the states eyes to not have to do the really indepth test. (Lots of time and $)
*There is enough interest in doing this, that for his business it could make some profit. (Obviously a good reason to start a project)
*The SR20DET is close enough sniffer wise that it shouldnt be that hard (I have someone's numbers from Nevada that are cleaner then my KA)
*I have inside, personal interest in this project (otherwise he wouldnt care)

Sorry if this doesnt makes sense, Im coming down hard off a redbull/ adrenaline/ warming up cause i've been chillin out side for two hours and its 32 degrees outside/ I almost died tonight rush.
But I really hope this works

EDIT: Is Touge Instinct a name of a crew? cause I came up with that as my excuse for passing the accord. I was thinking about what to say and this is my line "He was driving like a douche infront of me and my touge instinct kicked in and I just had to pass him, How was I to know that as soon as we got wheel to wheel a car would be coming the other way?"

[coreansurfer]

is there any hope for us rb people?

[Flybert]

EDIT: Is Touge Instinct a name of a crew? cause I came up with that as my excuse for passing the accord. I was thinking about what to say and this is my line "He was driving like a douche infront of me and my touge instinct kicked in and I just had to pass him, How was I to know that as soon as we got wheel to wheel a car would be coming the other way?"

Can you leave stupid bullshit like this out of this thread? Less wannabe initial D BS and more legalizing SR powered 240's.

[HKsilvia]

EDIT: Is Touge Instinct a name of a crew? cause I came up with that as my excuse for passing the accord. I was thinking about what to say and this is my line "He was driving like a douche infront of me and my touge instinct kicked in and I just had to pass him, How was I to know that as soon as we got wheel to wheel a car would be coming the other way?"

i think it just because u want to pass him or it just pop up in your mind all of your sudden, but i got ur point, it happes. btw, maybe ur new to this forum, a lot of ppl here are really reactive with word like touge/mouhtain pass/initial D etc. so yea... beware.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Flybert- Sorry man I was a little strung out last night
Starting wednesday Im going to be working on this project a little harder.
Yes I am new, I've only known what forums were for like 3 months
Corean Surfer- One step at a time...

[coreansurfer]

^^not trying to rush you, just want to make sure were not forgotten:bigok:

[McRussellPants]

SR passes TXs emmissons without a cat better than KAs with all the emmisions shit do.

This thread makes me want to do laps around a national park on leaded gas and a 9:1 A/F.

I can do laps around the police station open downpipe and cops don't care, enviroment can eat whatevers underneath the sink for all I care.

[S13Disco]

Legal SR would be NICE!!!!!! I drive my car daily so yea i always have to change routes because of cops and them setting up their surprise smog stations on the side of the road!! I HATE THOSE!!!! I have and S13 Redtop. Ill pay!!!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

SR passes TXs emmissons without a cat better than KAs with all the emmisions shit do.

This thread makes me want to do laps around a national park on leaded gas and a 9:1 A/F.

I can do laps around the police station open downpipe and cops don't care, enviroment can eat whatevers underneath the sink for all I care.
:bigok:
Wow... I dont know what to say.
Disco- They actually do that?!? I have just heard they did that in the 80's and it was an urban legend now!

[FusionR240sx]

i'll give you $300 to make mine pass...

OBDII car OBD-0 motor...

[EchoOfSilence]

:bigok:
Wow... I dont know what to say.
Disco- They actually do that?!? I have just heard they did that in the 80's and it was an urban legend now!
no, cali had that shit rolling recently, don't know about now though

[98koukile]

In Mass the scan your VIN number into the computer and everything like requirements comes up on the screen, there's no way around it because everyone who does emissions needs to use the same computer. Is there anyway this cert will help something like that?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Yes, with the certification a label is placed underhood that over rules what the computer says.
similar to this
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/images/fastfacts/ffvr29/emissions_cert.jpg
But will instead say engine family SR20DET (or whatever the emissions technical name is)
emissions controls, AIV, CATALYST, O2 Sensor etc...
But it will also have the name of our shop and contact information if there is a problem, And obviously not be from Nissan.

[Aoshi112]

I'd be willing to pay up to $500, maybe a bit more to have a smog legal SR powered S13.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

This maybe a big undertaking, but can everyone that is interested send an email to [email protected] So i can keep a list of people interested easily at hand.
It would be good if you could include where you're livin, what chassis you have and what engine you have and maybe contact info.

[drftsub]

mail sent, thanks for workin on this

[oscar]

email sent. thanks for all your dedication and work. would also pay 500 for this

[timtiminy]

email sent. hopefully we can really get the ball rolling on this.

[guitaraholic]

How much is the Total Cost going to be. I think what will keep people from jumping on board when it comes does to the money is the fact that they might figure, why pay for it when others can put forth the money to make it legal (free riding) there is a way we can get around that. Find out the total cost of it. Then pretty much make the total cost and divide it by the amounts that are paid in by everyone. Kind of like buying stock. Then, once the dues are paid, and its legal, everyone who has put in makes their share of profit from future people that go to legalize. The more you initially invest. The more you make in the future.

Just throwing that out as an idea.

[s13gold]

hell yeahh im interested.

[koukikat180sx]

It would be nice to have my car legal. Then I don't have to buy a truck and trailer. I'd be willing to pay to have it legalized.

[pablo180]

Any new progress on this?

[kenshinS14sks]

i'll send an email after work =) like above says ^^^ any progress? what are the things that still need to get done... besides everything?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey all, sorry no new news yet, still working on compiling information.
more probably wednesday.
Thank you all who have sent me emails.

[drift freaq]

ok let me say this since no one has spoken up about it. Do not use the U.S. SR20DE as the basis for your arguement. The state specifically states that any FWD configuration is not legal in a RWD setup period!! That comes straight from the State CARB referee , who I had a big discussion with once about this stuff.
If your going to get your certification its going to have to be off the SR20det , RB25DET etc.
I should remind you, the biggest problem you will have is the fact that we are talking about engines only.
YOu stated in your first post about cars. Now if you want to do the SR thing right what you need to do is get it certified through your company in a RHD car. Then it would be legal for people to swap the engine into our LHD cars because the engine was certified in a car in California. I think your boss would say its to much trouble to certify the engine only since it was never offered on a U.S. platform in RWD configuration.

Once you have a car certified in California its another story though i.e. hence the whole statement by me about using a RHD car to do it. Now it just so happens that the only skyline ever certified in the U.S. was a R33GTST through the DOT and EPA by Motorex. This is on the books for anyone to look up as well.
Given that, the engine with the most likely chance to get a CARB E.O. sticker through your company would be the RB25DET the engine in the D.O.T.'d EPA's R33 Skyline GTST!! It would probably require a dual cat setup as that was what Motorex did.
So since that is most likely to succeed I smile bigtime. Why? I own a RB25DET powered S13. I would love that certification. Please contact me or I will contact you as I think we would most likely have quick success with that a lot sooner than the whole SR deal. Yes I will pay $500 for that.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I wasn't planning on using the FWD SR as the basis, just as a fulcrum that the engine family (SR20DE) has been certified in the US. I am very aware that there are significant differences between them, most obvious is the turbo.
The reasons I chose to want to certify the JDM engine in the USDM car is the fact that the evaporative emissions (gas cap, canister, vac lines etc...) have already been certified in the US.
Everyone that has valuable info like this please, let me know! its all invaluable to the cause!

[pbcstylez]

email sent! (gluck w/ your progress)

[coreansurfer]

Given that, the engine with the most likely chance to get a CARB E.O. sticker through your company would be the RB25DET the engine in the D.O.T.'d EPA's R33 Skyline GTST!! It would probably require a dual cat setup as that was what Motorex did.


this makes me happy

[nrg]

This topic has came up many times before. If you ran 100% of the emission stuff in the sr20det; you can pass SMOG with flying colors. The only thing it wont pass is visuals. The reason why most fail smog in many states is because when a sr20det swap is done to a usdm car, the AIV port is cut and pluged up (hits the steering). The exhaust gas recirculation valve is also removed along the charcoal canister and other such emission equipments.

You would have to make custom AIV valves just to get it all working correctly

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

The only thing it wont pass is visuals.
Have you read the rest of the thread?
Thats the whole point.
I know it will pass tailpipe, but not visuals.

This topic has came up many times before. If you ran 100% of the emission stuff in the sr20det; you can pass SMOG with flying colors. The only thing it wont pass is visuals. The reason why most fail smog in many states is because when a sr20det swap is done to a usdm car, the AIV port is cut and pluged up (hits the steering). The exhaust gas recirculation valve is also removed along the charcoal canister and other such emission equipments.

You would have to make custom AIV valves just to get it all working correctly

However, thank you for this part, this is the kind of info I need

[Psycho 240 Freak]

Good LUCK!! I'm originally from San Jose, CA and have nephews in Stockton, CA who'll definitely be interested in this. We know how much of a haggle CA smog laws are. Smog in CA is one of the reasons I sold my last S14. BTW my nephew's last smog passed the sniffer too and that was with a hi-flow cat.

[domo dorigato]

interested in this thing as well!! keep it up

[GabeS14]

I am sure if there was a new thread with the topic
(willing to pay 400 bucks to legalize your SR????)
and then give a quick explanation of what has been said here and the email you gave us, you would probably get hundreds of email messages withing the next few days.
I just happened to stumble upon the thread..
I am sure that any SR owner that actually read this thread would support and want this, so lets get the word out in the other threads if possible too..
hope the mods dont mind.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

+1
Hey everyone, thanks for your support, I have gotten a few awesome emails and am really excited about getting this off the ground. Keep the support comin!

[Psycho 240 Freak]

I'd post this thread on other forums too, but I'm not sure about how happy mods of those other threads would be. I even put this on my Myspace. Gotta get the word out!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I guess I could create a myspace group

[coupelove626]

for anyone who passes smog , thats great but you will not pass a test only station with an SR. and the visual part is bullshit, my car passed sniffer with no cat. no egr, with upgraded fuel pump. no charcoal canister, no egr. just visual that gets us.


SR20DET man is right, the SR does run cleaner than KA. *thank you nissan for coil on plug* hahhahaha

The visual does it for us lol. You have to hook up the current probe on cylinder number 1. There is an obvious problem...I think the smog machine tells the technician what kind of ignition system our cars should have.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

SR20DET man is right, the SR does run cleaner than KA. *thank you nissan for coil on plug* hahhahaha

The visual does it for us lol. You have to hook up the current probe on cylinder number 1. There is an obvious problem...I think the smog machine tells the technician what kind of ignition system our cars should have.

Wow, again have you not read the rest of the thread?:ugh:
We know this, and that is why the car needs a CARB e.o. to pass.

However I would like to state again that it isnt simply as easy as getting a sticker to say which emissions equiptment the car should now have, it has to pass a more rigorous tailpipe test then just a smog.

The car has to be on a dyno loaded to the approx. inertia weight of the car (I think). Is cold started and then has to follow a dyno trace simulating road conditions. Then the car is "hot soaked" and then hot started and follows the trace again. I believe that is all the test will take since we are aiming to certify the JDM engine in the USDM car, it wont have to take the evaporative emissions test.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey everybody, I am writing a formal project proposal covering all SR and RB models as well as S13 and S14 chassis. I could use useful information and also someone to proof read and make sure my info is correct, because I am sourcing it from the FAQ threads here, on other forums, on sites and on wikipedia.
Edit:
S13 SR Redtop
S13 SR Black top
S14 SR
S15 SR
RB20DET
RB25DET
RB26DETT

89- 98 240sx models

[cmcdougle]

what do you need read? What info do you need? I know a little bit about this stuff. I am going to email you. . .

[GabeS14]

I guess I could create a myspace group
Yessssss
good start.

[bardabe]

im in! lmk asap 400$ legalisation owns the 400$ ref ticket + hastle + court + time + lunch + gas.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Lunch, hahaha

[coreansurfer]

its the lunch part that pisses me off, i dont even care about the ticket or the court fees, haha

[Cashizslick]

Email Sent!!

[ronmcdon]

its an admirable direction, but i think your plan is a bit ambitious. good luck. if you can make this happen, i'd be willing to spend a few hundred bucks on it.

[cmcdougle]

how about this:


Its an admirable direction. I think your plan is a bit ambitious, but can definitely happen. good luck. What can I do to help you make this happen? I'd be willing to spend a few hundred bucks and some time helping you with research on it.


There you go, now this'll happen in no time!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

LoL dougle. I'm writing a project proposal now for delivery on monday.
I am not sure if having a stock versus modified SR is going to matter, but it probably will.
Also those of you that kept your evaporative system intact are going to be better off.

[S14DB]

I would have to think the S14 SR has a simpler Emissions system. But it doesn't use the same emissions as the KA. Where as the S13 SR/KA seem to be more similar. Would this make a difference in the difficulty to certify?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Thats what I need to find out, my boss said it wouldnt be that hard, becuase the SR is cleaner tailpipe wise

[cmcdougle]

This is awesome. I just can't get over how awsome this is. +reppage going on.

[!Zar!]

I'm willing to pay $1.5k for the requirements to drive my car on the street.

Not that I'd want to. But it'd make getting to/from the track easier without having to tow.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

ZAR! Thats the spirit, but what happens if u break something?
lol
um, hopefully its going to be less then that much.

[cmcdougle]

It shouldn't be that much. Really all it is is going to state ref or whatever to get your car legalized, right?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I think you can ask anyone here, its not that easy

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey guys thanks for the support I have 16 people that have emailed me so far including some of the leaders of zilvia, keep 'em rollin in, the more the merrier!

[1121S13]

It shouldn't be that much. Really all it is is going to state ref or whatever to get your car legalized, right?
no .

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

It shouldn't be that much. Really all it is is going to state ref or whatever to get your car legalized, right?

If it was this thread would be pointless and everyone would have legal SR's and RB's

[1121S13]

If it was this thread would be pointless and everyone would have legal SR's and RB's
exactly, no one would post about this issue.

[cmcdougle]

Well, I mean, after we can get it legalized, then we just have to go show them our cars, right?

[StaticX27]

After it's legalized is the difference of having to swap the motor to ref vs taking off your bolt on parts to ref it.

You'll get puleld over, but you just show the cop your certificate of legalization and you're done. However he can still write you up for that huge ass turbo sticking out, but IMO, that's easier to take out than it is swapping in your stock KA

[Ameer]

I Agree With Staticx27

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Werd boltons are waaaay easier then a whole motor.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Ok guys I just thought of something, this certification wouldn't apply to just California, any state that has a visual inspection as a part of their smog test would need it right?
I dont know what states have visual inspections besides California, anyone know?

[Wei240]

probably, but your boss would probably know alot more,
zilvia does not represent every single state in the u.s of a

because as we all know, only cali matters, haha,
you're in cali, so work on california first

[Sidewayzzz]

I believe any places that requires emissions, requires a visual inspection of at least a functioning EGR / Gas Cap / Evap Canister / Cat.

[kouki_s14]

if this all goes through, you will be a legend to the 240 community
hope it all works out, for everyone's sake

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I hope it works out too, legend, lol I only have 75 posts!
But I think it would be amazing for the community

[Psycho 240 Freak]

If all this goes through. You'll definitely be in the history books. LOL, I can hear a documentary on 240's years from now. Narrated by Morgan Freeman, "It was Joseph Gordon aka tknbkthrsdy4anfg, who made it possible for the thousands of 240 enthusiasts!"

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Im working on it, I think it would be good for all of us

[S14DB]

I would also want to look at exceptions for states that have OBDII emissions. My dad just goes to the inspection station and they plug into the OBDII connector. No codes and he is on his way. You may have a problem with 96+ 204sx.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hmm... good point, I had no idea that there was even such a test, where is that?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey everyone, any one else have numbers from a smog test with their SR?
I would love to have more evidence to support my cause.
Also, I think this project is going to have to be in phases, SR first, RB second. I learned that the cert on the RB25 is no longer valid. Also its a huge undertaking to cover so many variations of motors at once. Sorry surfer and others.
EDIT: Also thank you to StaticX, Drift Freaq, Yuri, and everyone else that has helped!

[!Zar!]

I'll try and scan/email you with a few smog sheets from various sr's that were smogged and passed.

Right now the what should be most important to you is a stock sr...

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Zar- I'll be looking forward to it, and also yes stock SR is most important.

[blownoffvalve]

the sr20 alone will pass N/A but the boost is what doesn't allow it to pass =(

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

...Wow, now I know what you guys that have been at this thing for a while are dealing with...

[cmcdougle]

what, his post?:

the sr20 alone will pass N/A but the boost is what doesn't allow it to pass =(

lol.

[GabeS14]

the sr20 alone will pass N/A but the boost is what doesn't allow it to pass =(

where you trying to say that the fact it has a turbo wont allow it to pass???

wouldnt make sense either

[StaticX27]

Emissions wise, if they were to make emissions standards for a 2L Turbo charged motor, it would not pass those emissions standards. Sure, when you compare a Turbo 2L to an NA 2.4L (KA24DE), the SR20 will have lower emission output, just because of the smaller displacement.

However, we can be shady and just pop the actuator rod off the turbo to pass smog :)

[vvtisupra]

I didn't want to read through this stuff but i'd rock a bone stock SR if it was legal... still better than a bone stock KA. I'd probably pay a good extra grand to have it Smog Legal.

[cmcdougle]

Emissions wise, if they were to make emissions standards for a 2L Turbo charged motor, it would not pass those emissions standards. Sure, when you compare a Turbo 2L to an NA 2.4L (KA24DE), the SR20 will have lower emission output, just because of the smaller displacement.

However, we can be shady and just pop the actuator rod off the turbo to pass smog :)

but to them, it's better, because we went to a lower polluting motor, so we are polluting less, and it hardly costs them anything.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Anyone else got any numbers? LAST CALL!!!

[Cashizslick]

I would also want to look at exceptions for states that have OBDII emissions. My dad just goes to the inspection station and they plug into the OBDII connector. No codes and he is on his way. You may have a problem with 96+ 204sx.


Yeah true . . . those of us with Redtop SR's in our S14's would still fail even if this thing works.

Here is why:

1.) Older motor than car

2.) Tampering w/OBD systems

-> no way around that.

I guess this deal only applies to Non OBD II cars . . .

[cmcdougle]

I guess this deal only applies to Non OBD II cars . . .

:eek3: Don't say that!!!!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Cash- I dont know about that, hopefully its not so.
Dougle- wow that little smilie says it all

[Cashizslick]

Cash- I dont know about that, hopefully its not so.


Well . . in the states, it is illegal to put a motor in your car if it is older than the car itself.

Even if a 1993 KA motor passes smog, its illegal to put it into your 1994 240.

Now, ok, it doesnt REALLY matter because the OBD systems are the same, but the problem becomes magnified when you try to put an OBD I motor in an OBD II car.

OBD II was placed on all cars after 1996 as a requirement by the EPA. It is currently illegal to remove or modify this system. *See Bold Print Below*

Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
(1) in the case of a manufacturer of new motor vehicles or
new motor vehicle engines for distribution in commerce, the
sale, or the offering for sale, or the introduction, or
delivery for introduction, into commerce, or (in the case of
any person, except as provided by regulation of the Adminis-
trator), the importation into the United States, of any new
motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine, manufactured
after the effective date of regulations under this part
which are applicable to such vehicle or engine unless such
vehicle or engine is covered by a certificate of conformity
issued (and in effect) under regulations prescribed under
this part or part C in the case of clean-fuel vehicles
(except as provided in subsection (b));
(2)(A) for any person to fail or refuse to permit access
to or copying of records or to fail to make reports or
provide information required under section 208;
(B) for any person to fail or refuse to permit entry,
testing or inspection authorized under section 206(c) or
section 208;
(C) for any person to fail or refuse to perform tests, or
have tests performed as required under section 208;
(D) for any manufacturer to fail to make information
available as provided by regulation under section 202(m)(5);
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use;

Here is the link to this text http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa203.txt


Basically, the EPA would have to change their standards to allow SR's to be legal in 1996-1998 S14's for the simple fact that installation of an SR20DET will render the OBDII system (placed on the vehicle by the EPA) useless.

[StaticX27]

According to http://www.obdii.com/connector.html, pre-96 240SX's came equip with OBD II as well :D

S14's in general may be screwed.

[Cashizslick]

According to http://www.obdii.com/connector.html, pre-96 240SX's came equip with OBD II as well :D

S14's in general may be screwed.


OBD II emissions testing is not mandatory on pre 1996 cars (in the states that do OBD II testing) . . . thats why i left it out.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Cash- I think you're right, I hope you're not!

[georgesal]

i would be willing to have my car tested or to do something to help this cause i just got a smog vialation ticket for my sr

[drift freaq]

According to http://www.obdii.com/connector.html, pre-96 240SX's came equip with OBD II as well :D

S14's in general may be screwed.
He is right and I am surprised you did not know this already(thread starter). If I realized you did not, I would have informed you of that. It basically goes as follows, any engine from a newer model year can be put in with the proper smog equipment. Thats the condensed version. lol
Now yes technically unless you tried to cert a S15 SR or a Neo RB S14 owners are pretty much assed out. As well as the fact that OBDII is much harder to legalize anyways because they plug the ecu directly into the computer and you would need to be OBDII stuff on the engines. Now I have no idea what kind of stuff the Neo RB has or the S15sr has OBDII wise or if even comparable. Though ya S14's are pretty much kinda on the least likely list unfortunately.
__________________
Quote:

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Well, I did know that, but wasn't thinking about it, I thought S14 SR's were OBDII

[coreansurfer]

95 s14 is obdI

[S14DB]

OBDII is a US DOT invention. Japan does not have a similar system.

[Cashizslick]

^ werd.

NO SR20DET's in S14's will ever be legal. . .

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hmm, well thanks for all the more info I'll see what happens. still doesnt rule out S13's

[Cashizslick]

Hmm, well thanks for all the more info I'll see what happens. still doesnt rule out S13's

No prob - trust me, i would LOVE for S14's to be able to pass . .

I have an S14 w/a Redtop.

Best of luck with this search - maybe some day i will be able to have my car registered & insured in the same state I operate it in :coolugh:

[cmcdougle]

Dang, I have an S14 with an RB in it. . . Double negative there.


Can't you build an SR to OBDII specs?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Dougle, thats what I was wondering, maybe standalone with an OBDII emulator?:D

[cmcdougle]

Dougle, thats what I was wondering, maybe standalone with an OBDII emulator?:D

I was thinking of something along those lines. I would be interested in trying to build an ECU or program an ECU (like Megasquirts or something) to OBDII specs. I would imagine that it would need the smog equipment as well.

[S14DB]

Just need something to light up the MIL for 15sec while engine isn't running but ON. and to send the clear codes and ESM info.

Need to find a write up on the OBDII com system.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Easy, hard and hard.
hmm...

[Emp123]

My bottom line is, is anyone interested in paying around $300-400 to have a certified SR or RB or CA powered 240?

You get this done for $400 and I will suck your dick.

[FaLKoN240]

That's nasty.

[Phlip]

You get this done, for $400 and I will suck your dick.
And that, kids, is the first time he sucked a dick for crack.
... but it wouldn't be the last

[Tenchuu]

last i checked i could get more than that for $400 and from a hottie too.

[Emp123]

A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

That won't be neccesary, thanks. :barf:

[coreansurfer]

A mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.
and then theres you mr EMP123

[Emp123]

That won't be neccesary, thanks. :barf:
Oh thank god.

[cmcdougle]

So anyway. . .

Just need something to light up the MIL for 15sec while engine isn't running but ON. and to send the clear codes and ESM info.

Need to find a write up on the OBDII com system.


That's all the OBDII ECU does?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

LOL, no its tells you just about everything your engine is doing if you have the right code reader. Including your vin number i think

[s13gold]

What about a Turbo Charged KA.?

[cmcdougle]

Oh wow. Well that's a bit of a project then. I'm down for it. . .

[cmcdougle]

What about a Turbo Charged KA.?


I think that would fall more under the non-CARB issue, since the motor came with the car and you are making it worse, instead of swapping a cleaner motor in.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Turbo Ka is hard because there are so many variations in them, also they arent a factory turbo charged motor without "direct replacement" parts.
yea, S14 would be a huge undertaking

[cmcdougle]

Turbo Ka is hard because there are so many variations in them, also they arent a factory turbo charged motor without "direct replacement" parts.
yea, S14 would be a huge undertaking


I guess we would need to program our own software. . . or reprogram the KA ECU? I bet we could use the basic KA ECU Software somehow and modify it on a computer for an SR, then load it onto our own ECU standalone.

-

Or somehow do a piggyback that uses the KA ECU for everything, except the Air/fuel mixture and whatever.

I'm sure that we would need to modify some of the electronics on the engine with this route, though, whereas on the reprogrammed standalone we could suite the ECU to the electronics on the SR.

Hmmm. . . now I'm curious to start this stuff. . .

[motoman6968]

ok what all yall are doin' is insane, I give you mad props for bustin out some of the craziest research that helps alot of people. Everyone involved should get a damn medal. I'm down for whatever, $400 is nothin compared to the trouble you would have to go through every 2 years. not everyone is rich enough to change cars in that same interval.

[kenversusryu]

So any progress or just a buncha blahbitty blah blah blab?

[!Zar!]

Bah!

Not ALL s14's are obdII

US 240's from 89-95 are obdI That includes the 95 s14's. But cars made 96+ are obdII. So if you want to have a s14 if this whole thing works out, basically you will need to buy a 95 s14.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

ZAR! That makes sense, since OBDII wasn't required until 1996.

[cmcdougle]

Bah!

Not ALL s14's are obdII

US 240's from 89-95 are obdI That includes the 95 s14's. But cars made 96+ are obdII. So if you want to have a s14 if this whole thing works out, basically you will need to buy a 95 s14.

Yeah, but that's three years of cars that don't get anything.

Does anybody know how to certify an ECU to OBDII? Do we have to be professional, or just get it certified?

[coreansurfer]

95 s14 is obdI


i said that way back in the thread and you guys ignored me

now leagalize my odb1 rbs14 please:hsdance:

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Surfer- sorry man, didn't see it, I'm working on it!

[StaticX27]

i said that way back in the thread and you guys ignored me

now leagalize my odb1 rbs14 please:hsdance:

Patience d00000d.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

This may take a while, sorry guys :-/

[Chasmoore04]

Maybe you can weld two cats together (some cars come


Or 5 like the Impreza STi.

[Ameer]

Gosh darn it. 5 are on the sti and it still makes that kind of power.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

5 High flow subaru technica international cats ≥ 1 stock cat

[Ameer]

Sweet, so if I jack one and put it in my car, will it pass the visual inspection?

[S14DB]

http://www.projectnissan.com/shopping/pc/catalog/hks/hks-catalyzer.jpg
http://www.projectnissan.com/shopping/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=3&idproduct=984

[cmcdougle]

5 cats lol. Seems a little overkill. Just get a stock S14 cat. It's hollow.

[Ameer]

s14db- thanks for the offer but $1200 is too much for a cat. Rather buy a diamond for that much.

[cmcdougle]

s14db- thanks for the offer but $1200 is too much for a cat. Rather buy a diamond for that much.

How come you need a diamond? It's pretty much useless unless you plan on getting married anytime soon.

[Ameer]

No but its good to get them now so when it is time to get married the prices won't be inflated.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

$1200!?!?!
WTF?
Is that thing made with more precious metals then a rapper's necklace??

[drift freaq]

$1200!?!?!
WTF?
Is that thing made with more precious metals then a rapper's necklace??
in fact yes it pratically is. Thats the key to it being a zero emissions cat. Yes they do work and several companies including Nismo, Sard, Apex etc... sell them. 1000hp engines equipped with those have put out 0 emissions. You pay to play.

[Emp123]

A quick question about the certification thing, would we need to take our car up to your shop to get it certified, or is it automatic for all SRd 240s?

[Cashizslick]

Just need something to light up the MIL for 15sec while engine isn't running but ON. and to send the clear codes and ESM info.

Need to find a write up on the OBDII com system.





You need something that will communicate your vehicle's VIN to the OBD II inspection devices opperated by the various states that employ such a test.
\

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Hey all, hopefully I will have more info for you tomorrow!
Sorry about all the delay!
Drift Freaq- Did they used two of those to pass the skylines?

[Cashizslick]

A quick question about the certification thing, would we need to take our car up to your shop to get it certified, or is it automatic for all SRd 240s?


IF any of this wishful thinking actually works, the OBD I 240's with SR's would be allowed to pass visual inspection.

There is no reason that other testing standards would be relaxed.

[driftcardotnet]

after it passes the sniffer, then the visual comes, and thats when you need to pray, and have a couple of hundreds to give to your smog guy... a little green goes a long way..... i mean you all know you're digging a hole with the illegal motor, so you need to pay the price....

[drift freaq]

Hey all, hopefully I will have more info for you tomorrow!
Sorry about all the delay!
Drift Freaq- Did they used two of those to pass the skylines?
Actually, I am not even sure if Zero emissions cats were developed at the time the Skylines were certified. They were Certified almost ten years ago now and zero emission cats are a relatively recent development. Say last 2-3 years.

[707coupe]

i suggest using RX7 cat, man those things are huge and heavy!!!!!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Maybe we should rock that cat for the cert. That way almost any setup would pass. dunno if its possible tho

[Cashizslick]

Basically the only thing you will be able to do is get the SR to pass the "visual" part of the inspection if any of this works. . . and this will only work for OBDI 240's.

SR's will not be smog exempt, SR's will never be legal in obdII cars either - no way in hell the EPA will make an exception on OBDII compliance for one particular vehicle.

[cmcdougle]

IF any of this wishful thinking actually works

Hey, buddy, in case you haven't noticed, this is more than just wishful thinking; otherwise nobody would pay attention to it.

There is no reason that other testing standards would be relaxed.

This is true.


after it passes the sniffer, then the visual comes, and thats when you need to pray, and have a couple of hundreds to give to your smog guy... a little green goes a long way..... i mean you all know you're digging a hole with the illegal motor, so you need to pay the price....

Are you an idiot?


Maybe we should rock that cat for the cert. That way almost any setup would pass. dunno if its possible tho

Good idea, just as long as they don't see how bad (relatively speaking) the rest of our cars are and start asking questions.


SR's will not be smog exempt, SR's will never be legal in obdII cars either - no way in hell the EPA will make an exception on OBDII compliance for one particular vehicle.

So we make an OBDII compliant SR! Is anybody on board to help me with this? (We probably need some sort of programmer for this kind of thing; I can do the electronics part.)

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Dougle... wow, yea amen brother. But I would like to have the car legitametly pass, not just pass because we put a wonder cat on it. (which wouldn't pass a cold start test btw, the cat has to light before it works) And my boss feels the same way.

[cmcdougle]

Dougle... wow, yea amen brother. But I would like to have the car legitametly pass, not just pass because we put a wonder cat on it. (which wouldn't pass a cold start test btw, the cat has to light before it works) And my boss feels the same way.

Werd. Lets do it right.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Once again everyone, thanks for your help. If anyone has numbers they can send me that would be great!

I hope to have good news to give you all tomorrow! :x:

[Emp123]

IF any of this wishful thinking actually works, the OBD I 240's with SR's would be allowed to pass visual inspection.

There is no reason that other testing standards would be relaxed.

Maybe I phrased my question poorly, will 240s with SRs need to have a sticker on them that says they pass visual, and if so do we need to take our car to the shop up north to get it certified for the sticker?

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Emp- Yes, and I'm not sure of that yet.

[1121S13]

awaiting for the good news .

[oscar]

so what progress has this topic made tknbkthrsdy4anfg. is there a light at the end of this tunel or is it all a pipe dream.

[SiI40sx]

if this happens im definately buying another 240

[Emp123]

Emp- Yes, and I'm not sure of that yet.

Sweet, thanks.

[Cashizslick]

Maybe I phrased my question poorly, will 240s with SRs need to have a sticker on them that says they pass visual, and if so do we need to take our car to the shop up north to get it certified for the sticker?


yeah you probably would.

Anybody also reading this thread should also note that this will only apply to S13's operated in california.

For example:

Take your Nissan 240 to a garage in Massachusetts.

As long as the motor says Nissan on it, you are good to go . . . so long as you pass the OBDII test . . if you have an S13 the you are off the hook.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Cash- Any state that has a visual part of an inspection, where they cannot "easily" get away with an SR will need it. It will probably be cheaper for out of CA people because the standards arent as high as California.

[Cashizslick]

Cash- Any state that has a visual part of an inspection, where they cannot "easily" get away with an SR will need it. It will probably be cheaper for out of CA people because the standards arent as high as California.

Thats true - i was speaking to the fact that California emissions tech's are trained to be nit-picky about SR20DET's and fail them on the visual.

Most other states only use the visual to see if there are any major safety concerns. . .

But yes, if there was some other jackass state like Cali (no offence), i am sure that this certification process would allow the SR to pass visual inspection there.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Yes it would, California usually sets the precident for all states which means if its legal in CA, its legal in all other 49.

[S14DB]

My Thread on JDM Cats a while back:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=89671

[Cashizslick]

^ In all honesty, its not that hard to pass an SR if it gets to the tailpipe sniffer test . . .

. . . a cat like those, or a custom kink pipe exhaust w/4 cheep cat's will do the trick.

Just bolt it on for inspection, and unbolt it after the fact.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Each needs to reach a minimum operating temperature before any emission reduction or oxidation takes place. This warm-up period immediately after a vehicle is started is when the catalytic converter is least efficient and the vehicle expels the most pollutants. Some vehicles employ a pre-converter in the exhaust system immediately after the manifold to help during this warm-up period. The pre-converter’s small size and proximity to the engine allow it to heat up and start functioning in less time than the main converter. It also pre-heats the exhaust gasses and helps the main converter reach operating temperature sooner.


For this reason we cant just string a bunch of cats in a row, the test consists of a cold start test, and if the engine isn't tuned properly, it will not pass.

[Cashizslick]

For this reason we cant just string a bunch of cats in a row, the test consists of a cold start test, and if the engine isn't tuned properly, it will not pass.

Yeah, i saw that earlier . . .

but I just wanted to list it - as it IS an option for anybody reading this thread, who lives in a state where the SR will pass visual inspection. Guess that is a little ot. my b.

[WISH ONE]

iD PAy $500 any day to have my sr legal... shit.. you know what id prolly pay $1000.. just to know that i wouldnt have to dd my car in fear.. of some cop seeing or hearing my car and getting a boner and wanting to come pop my hood or give me a citation!

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

no important news today, gave my boss my project proposal and he said he is going to look it over and let me know what he thinks, cross your fingers!:x:

[1121S13]

If the good news come through, I wouldn't mind the road trip. Iam sure many members are willing to drive/pay as well.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

It nice up here, verry nice <borat>

[ae13bravo]

I would not think twice about paying $400 to have a legit sr20. Hell I would pay that amount every two years just not to worry about cops popping my hood.

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

I would not think twice about paying $400 to have a legit sr20. Hell I would pay that amount every two years just not to worry about cops popping my hood.
What do you mean?:confused:

[Cashizslick]

Just an aside:

Although the legalization options for the SR20DET addressed in this thread may only apply to the OBDI versions of our cars, there may be other options for OBDII S14 Owners.

I.E. "Custom Built Car" registration . . .

[tknbkthrsdy4anfg]

Very true...

[cmcdougle]

Just an aside:

Although the legalization options for the SR20DET addressed in this thread may only apply to the OBDI versions of our cars, there may be other options for OBDII S14 Owners.

I.E. "Custom Built Car" registration . . .

Would the car be custom enough? I mean, it's only an engine.