SR20det red top will not start

[JDMClifford]

Installed new stock cams. Set timing right. Intake cam set at 10 o'clock, exhaust set at 12. Has spark and fuel, but will not fire. Checked grounds and plugs and everything is good. Completely stumped. Anyone have any ideas??

[GSXRJJordan]

So you've got spark at the plug? That rules out ECU power issues and igniter... I'd say Cam Angle sensor (you pulled it right, maybe put it in 180* off?) or MAFS, maybe TPS or some other electronic reason for too much fuel? What about IACV?

If by "set timing right" you mean mech timing to FSM those are about all I can think of... I've never had spark and fuel and not gotten da bitch to turn over... does it sound like it wants to start, like chugging, or anything?

[JDMClifford]

Starter turns engine over, but it just won't fire. Checked each spark plug while attached to the coil and they all produced a healthy spark. Car has fuel pressure and I could smell fuel on each spark plug when they were pulled.

[JDMClifford]

Pulled cam angle sensor and checked it. Not turned 180 degrees so it's not that.

[Markovich]

compression?if you did what i did you will need to take both the cams off again and bleed the lifters if you let them sitt uncompressed you will have no comprsseion if you want be very carefully and loosen all the cam bolts and check compression i bet it would start then


peace

[JDMClifford]

lifters? what do you mean? lash adjusters?

[Markovich]

the hydralic lfters they sit in the head and ride on the rocker arm so when the cam turns it pushes down the lifter instead of the valves.

[nka203]

i think its a timing issue, mess around with the distributor, i had a very similar problem, with good fuel and spark but no start. i pulled out the distributor, put it back in bout 3 degrees to the left and it fired right up. i'm probably wrong im a noob at this stuff but just my opinion.

[j20accord00]

hey I got a quick question for you, I a little off topic but none the less, I bought JWT C1 cams and when I got them on my exhaust cam where the CAS goes on to there is a like a little peg if you will that is on there and it then slides up the CAS thread thing...My friend said I had to take that off of my stock exhaust cam and swap it with the new one because C1 cams are used for Sr20 rear and front wheel drive cars. so I was just wondering if you had to do that or not? or if anyone has? I cant seem to get it off without messing it all up? I hope you get waht I mean if not Ill take a pic of it. thanks alot, Evan

[JDMClifford]

sr20dets have cas not a distributor. and bles lash adjusters no go... maby i am setting the timing chain wrong. i jsut set the motor to tdc whitch is the first mark on the far left on the crank pulley. then put the cams 10 and 12 o'clock, next alight the cas. i did all of that like 3 times and i still cant get it to work.

[Markovich]

how did you keep the lifters when you had the cams out?
if you didnt touch them then walla theres ther problem just bleed them. place in a cup of oil holding them straight up and push down the check valve through the little hole in the top make sure it doesnt suck air in

peace

[ladiesman8527]

make sure your fuel lines arent backwards. when i put my SR in, i had them backwards and the engine was getting a little tiny bit of fuel, but not enough to start. its just something to look at.

[Markovich]

Sigh! kjjouhgyiogigpugh[oijh'

[GSXRJJordan]

Yeah JDMClifford, I didnt think about the fact that in pulling your cams, you have to bleed the lifters, because if the cam was pressing down on one (which it is, no matter what position it was in when you pulled it) and you relieve that pressure, air gets sucked in... anyway, you can check for compression first if you want, just hook up a compression gauge and turn the engine over by hand and see if you're remotely close (if there's a problem with lifters/compression, your readings will be somewhere around 20-50, instead of >120). Here's some info from jgycustoms.com:

http://www.jgycustoms.com/images/rockernoise.jpg
Does your SR20 have a "TAP-A-TAP-A-TAP-A-TAP" noise? The most likely suspect is air in the lifters. If you look at my finger location in the picture, I'm pushing down on the back of the rocker arm on the section that rides above the lifter. While pressing, if you feel any movement, you have air in that specific lifter. SR20 lifters are hydraulic but can not bleed themselves like most hydraulic lifters. To bleed your lifters you must remove your valve cover, the cams, and rocker arms. Pull the lifter out of its sleeve making note not to tilt it sideways, submerse it in oil, and insert a thin piece of rigid metal inside the hole on top of the lifter. Keep in mind, entire lifter must be completely submersed in oil. You will feel a groove with your metal probe, if you press down it will compress the internal mechanism. Do this repeatedly, many times, or until it doesn't depress anymore. Carefully insert it back into the sleeve without tipping it so that air does not enter it. Reinstall the rocker arms, cams, and valve cover and listen to see if the noise persists.

[JDMClifford]

fuel lines are not backwards haha, ok im gona bleed all the lifters this time. i was also thinking maby i am bot setting the cams at 10 and 12 when the tdc is on the compression stroke. would it matter?

[Markovich]

yes check compression first which i said back on post #5 now on 16 we got somewhere....


peace:bigok:

[JDMClifford]

ya im gona im jsut waiting for a friend to bring over his compression tester.

[Markovich]

sweet!! hope it works i hate to see s bodys sitting

peace

[JDMClifford]

ok i got it to start. but its flooding. after i crank it with no injectors pluged it then run it when it has injecters it will only start if i floor it and start it. it also has verry bad throttle responce. and will notidle by its self.

[GSXRJJordan]

Now we're gettin somewhere ~ what did it? Did you end up compression testing it? That sounds like your compression might still be messed up.

Now I'd start checking TPS, MAFS, IACV, vac line to FPR, there's a couple other things that can make it run badly.

[bongnak]

did you take out your injectors by any chance? if so check the o rings. went thru the same thing a while back

[JDMClifford]

i didnt take them out after it fan fine. now it runs like ass.

[JDMClifford]

all vac lines are good maf is good tps is good dont know acout compression and iacv.

[JDMClifford]

you can swap the cam gears. i have a stock exhaust cam gear if you need one or you can buy adjustable ones.


hey I got a quick question for you, I a little off topic but none the less, I bought JWT C1 cams and when I got them on my exhaust cam where the CAS goes on to there is a like a little peg if you will that is on there and it then slides up the CAS thread thing...My friend said I had to take that off of my stock exhaust cam and swap it with the new one because C1 cams are used for Sr20 rear and front wheel drive cars. so I was just wondering if you had to do that or not? or if anyone has? I cant seem to get it off without messing it all up? I hope you get waht I mean if not Ill take a pic of it. thanks alot, Evan

[JDMClifford]

ok so i couldnt sleep, so i was up at 4 in the mothing and i bled the lifters. agan... havent started my car and am goind to check the compression when my friend gets off work at 3. i was also thinking could it be the headgasket? maby i need oil on top of the pistons because it has 10 mins on the freshly rebuilt motor? i know for sure its not electrical it has to be something with the head.

[S14DB]

#1 cyl at TDC the Intake cam should be a 9 o clock and the exhaust at 3 from the front of the engine. Basically straight out.

[Markovich]

so bleeding them worked? what was your numbers just by chance before and after? WAIT rebuilt motor? how did you run it? did you run it for an hour and then turn off and drain oil and put new oil in?

peace

[steve shadows]

Make sure you turn your engine manually with a 27mm socket with the Valve Cover removed until the Shiny or Mis-Colored Links line up dead on the Cam Sprocket Dots on the Cams. Then drop a screw driver (a long one) softly into the No. 1 Cylinder to check the piston hieght in the stroke. Also the little notches on the crank shaft - The 2nd one from the intake side should be aligned with the pointy ice pick thing jetting off the front of the timing cover. That marks TDC as well..

then...

do this.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RPSport/1168521337_l.jpg

[JDMClifford]

i havent ben able to run the motor for more than 10 mins, first it was ticking really bad because i didnt have a valve shim on one of the valves now it wont start.

so bleeding them worked? what was your numbers just by chance before and after? WAIT rebuilt motor? how did you run it? did you run it for an hour and then turn off and drain oil and put new oil in?

peace

and WHAT! no its supose to be at 10 and 12.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/aifviper/ass.jpg

#1 cyl at TDC the Intake cam should be a 9 o clock and the exhaust at 3 from the front of the engine. Basically straight out.

[steve shadows]

i havent ben able to run the motor for more than 10 mins, first it was ticking really bad because i didnt have a valve shim on one of the valves now it wont start.



Wow

Time to pull the head or at least pull cams and re-shim the head.

[JDMClifford]

ya did that.

[S14DB]

i havent ben able to run the motor for more than 10 mins, first it was ticking really bad because i didnt have a valve shim on one of the valves now it wont start.



and WHAT! no its supose to be at 10 and 12.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/aifviper/ass.jpg
The lobes point out not the marks.

[JDMClifford]

ohh i see wht your are saying.

OK so i finally got to check the compression, 20-30 on all 4.. So what am i missing when i am bleeding the lifters? Do i literally have to press a probe into it and compress a ball baring in them or something? And what about after i do that just put them back in the head and put the rockerams on them? Anything special i have to do about the rockerarms?

[JDMClifford]

can someone tell me the proper way to bleed the listers? jsut stick a probe in em and thats it?

[GSXRJJordan]

yeah, the site I pulled that info off of was pretty clear. Basically, you stick something small into the end and you feel it move a little bit... you do that under oil, and voila, you're bleeding the lifters. Make sure you dont tip any of 'em over on the way from the oil to the motor.

[JDMClifford]

tahts what i thought, thats it? nothing specian with the rockerarms?

[johngriff]

dude, your engine is f'd i'll buy it for $100 off you.

J/K

Ok, if the dots are at 10 intake and 12 ex. Like 12, straight up and down. You are FUBAR. The exhaust cam should be slightly more clockwise than noon. IE the picture above. When swapping the cams if you dropped the chain on the exhaust side down, you probably have skipped a tooth on the crank. One of our friends on a recent rebuild, barely moved the chain, and skipped 3 teeth on the crank.

If you did not set the engine to compression stroke with the timing links sync'd with the cam gears, you are now in alot more difficult position. Turn the crank over until you are on tdc compression, second mark from the left, lobes facing out, and the marked links are sync'd with the cam gears. If you are the right mark, the cam dots will be as i described earlier, and as pictured. If it is off, if it looks like it is barely off, then it probably is.

You startup problems sound very very very much like bad chain timing.

Oh yeah, its really probably not the lifters/lash adjusters. We have swapped cams quickly, without suffering any of these issue, and the majority of the lifter based issues i have seen have been lots of noise because of air, not a drop in compression. IDK every time i pull them, i bleed them, when they stay in the head, i do not bleed them.. go figure.

[JDMClifford]

ok got it. well this might sound dumb but how do you know if its on the compression stroke? and now that im thinking about i probably didnt to the timing perfect. i will redo the timing and the lifters tomarrow and then see whats up. thx for all the help.

[Markovich]

John where have you been we are on the second page glad to see you helping someone else

peace

[johngriff]

Busy busy, trying to finish my car.

If you jumped timing on the crank, you'll have to take the front cover off to recheck it, ask mark about that... its not fun.

Compression Stroke. Like S14DB said, and steve said, the cam lobes for cyl 1 will be facing at 9 o clock (intake) and 3 o clock (exhaust).

hope this helps.

[Z U L8R]

bi-polar kanifarous bypass valve. next

[Markovich]

just pull the motor to do the timing it will save many hours of pain

peace

[JDMClifford]

ya i was thinking about pulling the motor.. i mise well replase the headgasket whale im there. also i am thinking about doing a cross cuntry trip after my car is back up and running, anything else i should be looking to buy that might cause problems later down the road?

[JDMClifford]

woot!, finaly got the timing right, it took me for ever. i hate timing chains. what made my life so hard it my chain didnt have 2 silver markes on them only has the one gold or yellow mork. but it works thanks for all your help zilvia.and omg the motor runs soooo perfect!