And The Sh*T Gets Deeper, NYFD talks 9/11 [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 02:05 PM

Video of NYFD who helped to save lives during 9/11 and NBC say that there were explosives in the building before the planes hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKdvl--1Dt0

3 main Buildings went down on 9/11, anyone in NY can tell you that. The owner of the 3rd building Larry Silverstein said on camera that the 3rd building (building 7 which fell 5hours later) fell down in the exact same accordion style of the other two towers because "the fire department decided to pull it". The building was not damaged at all from the other two buildings and anyone who knows about control demolition knows that it takes weeks to plan that out not five hours in the mist of chaos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7he_sAVs0A

Larry Silverstein purchased a $3.2 billion, 99-year lease of the World Trade Center in July 2001. On 9/11, by his own admission, Larry Silverstein ordered the demolition of his building. In February of 2002, his company won a settlement of $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers.. Over all he gained 7 billion from the "attack".

Wow... Our own government killed 3,000 americans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv7IF8kqZjI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoibU5njEM&mode=related&search=

SimpleSexy180

01-27-2007, 02:32 PM

USA FTW!!11ONEONEONe

VROOOM

01-27-2007, 03:02 PM

http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/conspiracy.html
now you can make your own conspiracy theory. since you like them so much. taxes and 9/11..... did you know hitler is still alive too.

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 03:08 PM

http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/conspiracy.html
now you can make your own conspiracy theory. since you like them so much. taxes and 9/11..... did you know hitler is still alive too.

lol I don't like conspiracy theories but I do like facts, and there a lot of facts about 9/11 you don't know. Don't be afraid of the truth. :)

VROOOM

01-27-2007, 03:12 PM

Not afraid of the truth just dont believe all edited videos i see on the internet. Ask Michael Moore about clever editing........ he knows.

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 03:21 PM

Neither do I, thats why I research stuff on my own and use edited videos to back it up. The facts are there, if your waiting for a headline story on CNN then your gonna be waiting for a very long time. Or at least until all the people who gained from it are dead and gone.

Helghast

01-27-2007, 03:29 PM

Youtube is the new history class.

ThatGuy

01-27-2007, 03:45 PM

Provided you are teaching "History as I see fit to enforce my Agenda".

Can you imagine how many stupid assed homemade conspiracy theory videos there would have been for JFK's shooting?

xcusememisswyn

01-27-2007, 03:53 PM

theres been conspiracy theories since day one, all they prove is there are a bunch of unpatriotic assholes out there tryin to make US look bad...

dont be that asshole...

God Bless USA

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 04:07 PM

God Bless USA

And no one else!

Because God really cares about what country you were born in. :rolleyes:

Helghast

01-27-2007, 04:16 PM

Never start a political Debate.
Never start a religious Debate.

What the fuck..ever heard of opinions?
For some people it goes a long way.
By you starting this thread, you're begging for shit to happen . . and it will . . and someones toes are gonna get stepped on.

This thread is useless.

You fucking suck.
but no neg rep . .I'm not that mad at you. <3. In a totally Manly way.

ThatGuy

01-27-2007, 04:18 PM

And no one else!
He didn't say that did he? No he said GOD BLESS THE USA, which is his right thanks to the country he lives. Just like the right of idiots and assholes to make stupid fucking videos to say whatever they want, and post them on the internet.

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 04:19 PM

Provided you are teaching "History as I see fit to enforce my Agenda".

Can you imagine how many stupid assed homemade conspiracy theory videos there would have been for JFK's shooting?

What agenda do people have for telling what really happened? What agenda do firefighters have for saying they saw first hand explosives in the buildings? Its not like they're saying hey look at this now vote for such and such.

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 04:25 PM

He didn't say that did he? No he said GOD BLESS THE USA, which is his right thanks to the country he lives. Just like the right of idiots and assholes to make stupid fucking videos to say whatever they want, and post them on the internet.

No he didnt say that. I did, thats why the words are next to my name and not in the quote.

Helghast- I dont think I stepped on anyones toes or insulted anyone at all. I started this thread for discussion. If you dont think Its right.. prove me wrong without name calling.

ThatGuy

01-27-2007, 04:31 PM

I know, I'll make a video with Astronauts. I'll put them in front of something that resembles a NASA building, so you know they are legit. Then I'll have them tell me "facts" about Hillary Clinton actually being an alien from Uranus that they saw first hand hitching a ride on the MIR. Then I'll post it on YouTube. It has to be fact right? I mean I met all the requirements.

Conspiracy Theories are the biggest waste of time. People just need to grow up and stop trying to point fingers and play the blame game.

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 04:56 PM

Conspiracy theory to me is someones opinion based on what they think is right with no factual evidence and with some agenda they want to accomplish by proclaiming it.

Did Larry Silverstein buy the twin towers and a huge insurance coverage on them against terroristic attacks two months before 9/11? YES It is a fact! Look it up.

Did he give the go ahead to blow up his own building that was not damaged five hours after the twin towers were hit. YES It was clearly on the news and the interviews he did afterwards.

Could it be possible to blow up a 45 story building in 5hrs without any previous planning and in the middle of all the chaos on 9/11?? NO It is impossible. Which means it had to be planed before hand. Weeks before hand.

Did reporters say on TV September 11, 2001 that it appeared to be explosions in the building on certain floors? YES Watch the news broadcast on youtube or where ever you can find them.

Finally can you really destroy two huge sky scrapers with only two planes. No I dont believe you can. Ask any architect, demolitionist, or anyone in construction and see how long they laugh at you.

Conspiracy theory?? Nah I don't think so.

kouki_s14

01-27-2007, 05:06 PM

everyone can argue about this all day long, i wont say what i think about this cause it doesnt matter to any of you. BUT the most convincing piece of evidence that i want to know more about is the insidering trading (put options) on the airlines that were hijacked.

Whoever cares enough can research that piece of information themselves. What you find will assure you that someone knew about the attacks in advanced and wanted to take advantage of it on the stock market. Think what you will of it, i just want more information since every investigation seems to overlook that little tid bit.

hitman

01-27-2007, 05:52 PM

saw those over a year ago, cool stuff

SimpleSexy180

01-27-2007, 06:03 PM

Larry Silverstein. Aww man he knew how to get that paper.

he is a smart for using the system. w00000t!!!

badboy6686

01-27-2007, 06:51 PM

I've seen this and so much more on this topic and never bothered to post it because i know how narrow minded people can be.

spdfreek0o

01-27-2007, 07:03 PM

I don't think we'll ever know what happened. There is so much misinformation out there that it is impossible to know whats real and whats not. And the government knows it.

SimpleS14

01-27-2007, 07:08 PM

Baka Sama

01-27-2007, 07:28 PM

Please dont refrain thats what these threads are for. If I didnt want to hear peoples opinions good or bad, I wouldnt have started it. Insider trading is just one of the many odd things that happened right before 9/11.

cdlong

01-28-2007, 12:46 AM

Did Larry Silverstein buy the twin towers and a huge insurance coverage on them against terroristic attacks two months before 9/11? YES It is a fact! Look it up.

of course he did, they had already been attacked once. it would be criminal not to.

there are other responses to refute your other "evidence" but i don't want to go into it. i will say this though...

if there were explosives installed before attacks, why is all the evidence that's come up only about people thinking they saw explosions? why didn't anyone come forward saying they installed them, or they saw them installed or there were strange workers in the building before the attack, or 'there are some wires running behind my desk that weren't there before.' anything at all? of the dozens or hundreds of people inolved in a project like that, you think each and every one kept quiet?

and from what i remember WTC7 was severly damaged when the other buildings collapsed. by "pull it" he meant, pull the effort to put out the fires that were destroying the building. it was badly damaged and collapsed on it's own. but hear what you want to hear, i guess.

soreballz

01-28-2007, 01:11 AM

Shady shady shady. I heard about that demolition awhile ago.
Now, I'd like to state for the record that I'm far from being some liberal-dumbass conspiracy nut. I can't stand those idiots. But damn, that third building dropping like that WAS a controlled demolition, and it collasped a whole lot like the other buildings did. Coincidence? Maybe. I don't know; I wasn't there.

Don't be ignorant and toss these ideas aside, people. I'm not telling you to instantly believe it, but at least look into it. You may be surprised at what you discover.

Creim

01-28-2007, 01:36 AM

Yeah it useless to post things like that on a car enthusiast forum

airsoft

01-28-2007, 02:26 AM

Damnit people.

Jack Bauer and CTU is on this shit.

We might not know the truth, but who evers responsible...

Jack will whoop they ass!

TurDz

01-28-2007, 03:46 AM

I've seen this and so much more on this topic and never bothered to post it because i know how narrow minded people can be.

I agree. I this it's a good thread and I'm glad I saw those videos.

The useless posts in this thread are the ones that blindly call others fools for even doubting or questioning.

This thread would be most productive if we speak and support our opinions with facts. It is just a car forum, so everyone is at different levels in terms of known information. I don't want to state my own opinion on this theory right now because I have to admit, I'm pretty ignorant on the whole topic. All I know is what I've seen on TV.

Don't be ignorant and toss these ideas aside, people. I'm not telling you to instantly believe it, but at least look into it. You may be surprised at what you discover.

Exactly. We're all pretty young here and we should definately keep an open mind about everything.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 05:05 AM

I have a feeling Mercury Insurance is run by a group of aliens from the planet Mercury. I see commercials all the time to prove it.

Kn1ves

01-28-2007, 07:20 AM

Invisible Hand

20 til 3

01-28-2007, 07:40 AM

we shouldnt care, its old news....it happen and it was bush's fault bla bla bla...people that sit there and put all of this together should be banished

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 08:40 AM

SimpleS14

01-28-2007, 08:46 AM

why didn't anyone come forward saying they installed them, or they saw them installed or there were strange workers in the building before the attack, or 'there are some wires running behind my desk that weren't there before.' anything at all? of the dozens or hundreds of people inolved in a project like that, you think each and every one kept quiet?

Really...if you set explosives in a building full of people...would you really admit to it? Fire drills are good ways to evacuate a building for xx amount of time. There is more than one way to keep someone quiet....and even if they say something...going by the mentality of most people..who would believe them?..I know you wouldn't.....

but yea...I don't like chatting about this stuff anymore...just unnecessary given where we are now and how many people have died over a senseless cause....

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 08:50 AM

of course he did, they had already been attacked once. it would be criminal not to.

there are other responses to refute your other "evidence" but i don't want to go into it. i will say this though...

if there were explosives installed before attacks, why is all the evidence that's come up only about people thinking they saw explosions? why didn't anyone come forward saying they installed them, or they saw them installed or there were strange workers in the building before the attack, or 'there are some wires running behind my desk that weren't there before.' anything at all? of the dozens or hundreds of people inolved in a project like that, you think each and every one kept quiet?

and from what i remember WTC7 was severly damaged when the other buildings collapsed. by "pull it" he meant, pull the effort to put out the fires that were destroying the building. it was badly damaged and collapsed on it's own. but hear what you want to hear, i guess.

There is evidence my friend, lots of it. If there were explosives there of course the people who put them there are not gonna come out and say it! Why would they have to when people like you just toss aside any notion that this could have been planed. On top of that if someone did do it im sure they got paaaaid to shut up. And as far as the people who worked there maybe because a good amount of people died! If they could come back they just might say "oh yeah thats right I did see something strange".

Just to make things clear WTC7 was not that close to the twin towers. Other buildings that Larry Silverstein didnt own were a hell of a lot closer and only had minor damage and magically WTC7 caught on fire. Fire from what? And no, by "pull it" he meant that he wanted to destroy the building by controlled demolition. He said that on TV in his interview. Also since when has a 45 story iron building been declared a complete loss do to a fire on a few floors? You would think he would want to put the fire out not completely destroy the building. Also it was the first iron building in history to be destroyed by fire.

Don’t you think its a little weird for two sky scrapers to collapse onto themselves without hitting the base! Also very strange how the top of the building didnt fall off first. Instead the buildings collapse onto themselves just like a standard control demolition. :rolleyes:

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 08:56 AM

you know what else...

we never landed on the moon, elvis was captured by aliens, and tupac is in China...

i know a few marine corps. officers, man i would hate to see their reaction to you promoting these ideas

Please shut up if you dont have anything worth saying. OMG, Marine corp officers who are just as close minded as you! We were fooled into thinking we were attacked. You guys have good intentions to fight back but we were fooled.

mRclARK1

01-28-2007, 09:08 AM

Don’t you think its a little weird for two sky scrapers to collapse onto themselves without hitting the base! Also very strange how the top of the building didnt fall off first. Instead the buildings collapse onto themselves just like a standard control demolition.

Remember you are talking about a MASSIVE structure... I had this exact converastion with a couple of friends; one of whom is an engineer. He pointed out that a structure of that design, size and mass would almost inevitably collapse in on itself the way it did (like an accordion almost) partialy because as the floors collapse into the next there isn't time for them to gain motion in any other direction then straight down. There are many more reasons why it collapsed the way it did; but I am not an engineer so I'm not gonna try to explain them.

Just look at this website that my friend pointed me to as well: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

It essentially explains briefly, and as simply as possible, from an engineering standpoint why it collapsed the way it did.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 09:12 AM

we shouldnt care, its old news....it happen and it was bush's fault bla bla bla...people that sit there and put all of this together should be banished

This has to be the worst reply. We shouldn’t care because it’s old news? Ok so someone kills your family 6 years ago, no one investigates and you shouldn’t care because it’s old news right.

Yes we should all be banished for questioning the death of 3000 people. Why do we even have the court system then. I mean If the police say it happened that way it did and we should just follow them blindly.

RJF

01-28-2007, 09:16 AM

Just to make things clear WTC7 was not that close to the twin towers. Other buildings that Larry Silverstein didnt own were a hell of a lot closer and only had minor damage and magically WTC7 caught on fire. Fire from what? And no, by "pull it" he meant that he wanted to destroy the building by controlled demolition. He said that on TV in his interview. Also since when has a 45 story iron building been declared a complete loss do to a fire on a few floors? You would think he would want to put the fire out not completely destroy the building. Also it was the first iron building in history to be destroyed by fire.

Don’t you think its a little weird for two sky scrapers to collapse onto themselves without hitting the base! Also very strange how the top of the building didnt fall off first. Instead the buildings collapse onto themselves just like a standard control demolition. :rolleyes:

So, all the other buildings that were destroyed or damaged and were further away from the towers were also demolished? :rolleyes:

From Wikipedia:
Damage
In addition to the 110-floor Twin Towers of the World Trade Center itself, five other buildings at the World Trade Center site, including 7 World Trade Center and the Marriott Hotel, two New York City Subway stations, and St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church were destroyed or badly damaged. In total, in Manhattan, 25 buildings were damaged and all seven buildings of the World Trade Center Complex had to be razed. Two additional buildings were later condemned: the Deutsche Bank Building across Liberty Street from the World Trade Center complex, due to the uninhabitable, toxic conditions inside the office tower and Borough of Manhattan Community College's Fiterman Hall at 30 West Broadway due to extensive damage in the attacks. These buildings are both (as of September 2006) slated for deconstruction. [1]

Look at the map and the distances to the other buildings that were destroyed.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/docs/fig_1_1.jpg

I guess some people have nothing better to do than come up with wacko conspiracy theories just because they hate the government so much.

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 09:19 AM

Sorry Bob, but your proof doesn't count. It didn't come from a YouTube Video. :cj:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

mRclARK1

01-28-2007, 09:23 AM

There are conspiracy theroies about the world wars, a supposed alien landing, the JFK assasination, the Vietnam war, the moon landing, the assasination attempt on Pope John Paul and the list goes on and on....

Why did we think 9/11 would be any different? The only difference this time is that it's really the first major world event, of that manner, to happen in the age of instant communication, cell phones, the internet and a lot of new technology etc. That means people can make there theroies (whether they know they are untruthful, and are lying, or actually believe them is beside the point) look a lot more credible with "evidence" and "proof" because technology allows them to do it, and via mainly the internet; spread them around the world in an afternoon.

Also just think about this; if there IS a conspiracy behind 9/11 would any government/group that was capable of organizing that be so careless and ineffcient as to allow there conspiracy to be exposed by some people on YouTube? Also, if they care so little about human life to kill 3,000 innocent people... would they really think twice about killing off any firefighters, and other rescue workers, who saw these "explosives" in the building, or by any other means of what they "witnessed", could expose there conspiracy?

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 09:23 AM

Remember you are talking about a MASSIVE structure... I had this exact converastion with a couple of friends; one of whom is an engineer. He pointed out that a structure of that design, size and mass would almost inevitably collapse in on itself the way it did (like an accordion almost) partialy because as the floors collapse into the next there isn't time for them to gain motion in any other direction then straight down. There are many more reasons why it collapsed the way it did; but I am not an engineer so I'm not gonna try to explain them.

Just look at this website that my friend pointed me to as well: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

It essentially explains briefly, and as simply as possible, from an engineering standpoint why it collapsed the way it did.

Finally an intelligent response. I'll reply after reseaching..

Also if you guys didnt know Youtube is just a place for people to post videos. Youtube doesnt make videos silly. And I never said only 3 buildings were destroyed or only the building he own were destroyed.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 10:59 AM

I wasnt around during JFK, or Elvis, or Vietnam, or the first moon landing, or anything that happened before I could walk and talk clearly. I am around now though and I call it like I see it. I dont hate the government, Bush, or anyone for that matter. I dont run after conspiracy theories and believe in aliens. If no one questions anything then people are allowed to get away with whatever they want, even murder. People who religiously follow there government and call anyone with a different view unpatriotic are just plain stupid. Maybe they should move to China, North Korea or better yet find a time machine and go back to the 1940's.

All Im asking people to do is look at the evidence and not the propogranda.

One source of data is a thermal map of Ground Zero created from infrared data collected by a NASA plane that overflew the site on September 16. The map, created by the U.S. Geological Survey, shows hotspots on the surface of the rubble that were above 700 Celsius. 2 After five days of cooling and despite being sprayed with water, they were still above the melting point of aluminum. The temperatures deep in the rubble pile, and their decline over time, can only be guessed. People living and working around the World Trade Center site, and for considerable distances downwind, had to cope with toxic odors for weeks after the attack.

This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/docs/hotspots_usgs.jpg

In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900º C (1,500-1,700º F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600º C (1,100º F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments).

At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7.

This graph represents strength as a function of temperature, which is expressed in degrees Celsius

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/fires/docs/strengthcurve.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Characteristics of the Twin Tower Collapses

The cores were obliterated. There is no gravity collapse scenario that can account for the complete leveling of the massive columns of the towers' cores.

The perimeter walls were shredded[/B]. No gravity collapse scenario can account for the ripping apart of the three-column by three-floor prefabricated column and spandrel plate units along their welds.

Nearly all the concrete was pulverized in the air, so finely that it blanketed parts of Lower Manhattan with inches of dust. In a gravity collapse, there would not have been enough energy to pulverize the concrete until it hit the ground, if then.

Parts of the towers were thrown 500 feet laterally. The downward forces of a gravity collapse cannot account for the energetic lateral ejection of pieces.
Explosive events were visible before many floors had collapsed. Since overpressures are the only possible explanations for the explosive dust plumes emerging from the buildings, the top would have to be falling to produce them in a gravity collapse. But in the South Tower collapse, energetic dust ejections are first seen while the top is only slightly tipping, not falling.

The towers' tops mushroomed into thick dust clouds much larger than the original volumes of the buildings. Without the addition of large sources of pressure beyond the collapse itself, the falling building and its debris should have occupied about the same volume as the intact building.

Explosive ejections of dust, known as squibs, occurred well below the mushrooming region in both of the tower collapses. A gravitational collapse explanation would account for these as dust from floors pancaking well down into the tower's intact region. But if the floors -- the only major non-steel building component -- were falling well below the mushrooming cloud above, what was the source of the dense powder in the cloud?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Explosive ejection of dust early in the collapse of the South Tower is clearly visible in the NBC video taken from far to the east, and in still frames from that video, portions of five of which are shown below. In addition to the large ejections of white dust from the left wall, the video shows a small high-speed ejection toward the back of the right wall, visible as a small white fleck in the first frame below.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/docs/stf203.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This photograph shows the top of the South Tower disintegrating as it has only just begun to fall. Note the curves in the edges of the walls above the zone of collapse.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/docs/eh_wtc4.jpg
There is clear visual evidence that the structural frames of many stories above the impact zones in both towers were shattered before the tops had fallen significant distances.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A striking feature of the Twin Towers' destruction was the pulverization of most of the concrete into gravel and dust before it hit the ground. This is evident from the explosive mushrooming of the towers into vast clouds of concrete as they fell, and from the fact that virtually no large pieces of concrete were found at Ground Zero, only twisted pieces of steel
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/search.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------

And I havent even started on Building 7!!

badboy6686

01-28-2007, 11:08 AM

It's pretty odd that there have been 3 skyscrapers in the history of the world to fall due to fire and those are wtc 1,2,& 7. do some research on previous fires in skyscrapers. The madrid skyscraper fire, First interstate bank fire (11&12th floors were completely ablaze and still held the 50 floors above them!) Engineers make sure that the steel structures are EXTREMELY over engineered, were not talking about 2x4s.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Take a look at this picture. Looking at what the building is doing in this picture, do you REALLY believe that it would've pancaked straight down into a perfect pile??

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 11:14 AM

Feel free to read this one as well, although it doesn't support your conspiracy theory. I'm not fighting with anyone. People can believe whatever they want. That's the beauty of this Country, you can believe and say whatever you like without fear of imprisonment or death.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

I do agree however that if indeed this is all a Government Conspiracy, why wouldn't they be shutting up all these people with "facts" showing that it is a conspiracy? I guess they can organize an entire City to fake a Terrorist Attack, but they can't stop someone piecing together news clips on an old Mac in their parents basement.

Enjoy your theories. Enjoy your freedom.

mRclARK1

01-28-2007, 11:17 AM

Origianlly posted by:Baka Sama
I wasnt around during JFK, or Elvis, or Vietnam, or the first moon landing, or anything that happened before I could walk and talk clearly. I am around now though and I call it like I see it. I dont hate the government, Bush, or anyone for that matter. I dont run after conspiracy theories and believe in aliens. If no one questions anything then people are allowed to get away with whatever they want, even murder. People who religiously follow there government and call anyone with a different view unpatriotic are just plain stupid. Maybe they should move to China, North Korea or better yet find a time machine and go back to the 1940's.

All I was trying to say is that these types of theories pop up about all major events like this. The point I was getting at is that with all the technology around us today; it's A LOT easier to spread dis-information/wrong information, whether you do it intentionally or not, than it was even 10 years ago. It's also A LOT easier for people to just make things up and come up with fabricated evidence and videos and pictures etc. to try and decieve people.

You also keep talking about the use of explosives in the building. Rememeber you are also talking about 2 airliners filled with jet fuel. Not an explosive in the sense of an intended explosive device; but combine that with a high speed impact and large amounts of flammable material... and you get explosive results. The effect is mainly the same.

Here's a very good read about that same topic and specifically about 9/11: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4

cdlong

01-28-2007, 11:46 AM

There is evidence my friend, lots of it. If there were explosives there of course the people who put them there are not gonna come out and say it!

so you are implying that no one ever admits to any wrongdoing because what they did was bad? so of everyone involved, no one had any morals? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor)

And no, by "pull it" he meant that he wanted to destroy the building by controlled demolition. He said that on TV in his interview.

you don't know that, you assumed that's what he meant (i made an assumption too). and what makes you think he would say something that could cost him millions on television (if he admitted to demoing the building without a thourough evaluation, the insurance company wouldn't attribute the loss to terrorism and thus, not pay out on the claim.)

also, fire fighters save lives, not buildings. they probably decided it wasn't worth the risk to keep fire fighters in there, since the building was empty and they were a little over tasked and undermanned on that day.

cdlong

01-28-2007, 11:59 AM

Engineers make sure that the steel structures are EXTREMELY over engineered, were not talking about 2x4s.

engineers don't extreemly over-engineer anything, not good ones at least. they gather data about expected loads (767s crashing into them wasn't one of them) and design them as tightly as possible. over-engineering costs millions in construction costs.

random comment about 2x4s, they are over engineered to an extent because they aren't consistent, and their strength can be unknowingly be dropped by other factors like terrmites and rot.

and you call that a perfect pile? http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/images/groundzero.jpg

KA24DESOneThree

01-28-2007, 12:04 PM

Your (in this case referring to Baka Sama) "evidence" = propaganda. People can tweak and manipulate "facts" until they're red in the face. You probably think Michael Moore is a beacon of truth.

Blame the Jews. If the Muslims did it, blame the Jews. Didn't Borat have a song about this? Blame the rich people, too. Hell, if they're white and have scrilla in the bank, blame 'em. Rich people are eeeeevil. Eeeevil, I tell you. The liberal agenda is to blame anyone who has money in the bank and a Jewish last name. Why do liberals hate the Jews so much? Aren't they all for the abolishment of oppression, or only the abolishment of oppression which would increase their voter base?

How many times in history have office buildings been hit by commercial airliners? Sure, there was that time in 1945 when a B25 hit the Empire State Building but that plane weighed 33,510lbs fully loaded and killed 11 people inside. It was also going maybe 250 miles per hour. A 767 weighs 178,400-186,100lbs operating empty; the former weight is of a 767-200, the latter of a 767-200ER. They hit at a speed above 400mph. There were forces at work there that you or I cannot even begin to understand, and even physicists would have a hard time figuring out the impact force the Towers underwent.

cdlong

01-28-2007, 12:16 PM

This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/docs/hotspots_usgs.jpg

what evidence is that claim based on? my redimentary knowledge of explosives and jet fuel would make me thing the opposite is true.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Characteristics of the Twin Tower Collapses

and quoting someone else's wild speculation doesn't help your cause. all i'm going to say is there is a scenerio that would account for all of that, two huge fucking buildings falling down. first you say it's too controlled, then that it's not controlled enough.

RJF

01-28-2007, 12:45 PM

This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/docs/hotspots_usgs.jpg

And you are basing your facts on http://911research.wtc7.net/ ?

A propaganda/conspiracy site? Hmm, now that's convenient for your theories.

I'll go with this website (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm) and the fact that Islamofacist terrorists brought down the towers and killed 3000 people.

airsoft

01-28-2007, 12:51 PM

Watch 24 on Mondays. Should give some clues as to whos behind everything.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 05:18 PM

You guys are so blind its not even funny :-/

KA24DESOneThree, I dont even know what the hell your talking about. Michael Moore and Jews??

RJF, Sorry but I think www.9-11commission.gov is one of those propaganda/conspiracy sites you talk about.

Ok so obviously we cant agree on how the towers were brought down. So lets take a look at something else completely.

Here is a picture of building 7 at 3pm on September 11, two and a half hours before it collapsed. The lower portion of the building is darkened from the reflection of the other smaller building across the street. The only fires are on the 7th and 12th floors and are so small they could have been put out by the office sprinkler system.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pp190104building7.jpg

If the collapse of WTC 7 wasnt a controlled demolition then how in the world can a few fires collapse a steel building??

If nothing else watch the video of the WTC 7 collapse and you can clearly see demolition charges.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/281104unmistakablecharges.htm

Another view!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYwuFDgA0Jc

I know you guys dont like Youtube videos but you really cant argue against this.. 1:00 min video of other sky scrapers completely in flames that never collapsed and WTC 7 that only had a few very small flames and its collapse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM

Construction workers and police telling people to move out of the way because Building 7 was about to "blow up"! Not collapse or fall down.. Blow up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwjmqkjwnvQ

Sorry guys if it was one or two things I would be like yeah its fake, but come on! There is just way too much shit to prove it was planned.

BLITZZZ

01-28-2007, 05:38 PM

*holds gun to little girl*

God is not here today priest!

s13speeddrft

01-28-2007, 05:39 PM

Finally can you really destroy two huge sky scrapers with only two planes. No I dont believe you can. Ask any architect, demolitionist, or anyone in construction and see how long they laugh at you.

Conspiracy theory?? Nah I don't think so.
I saw a special on tv about that and they had architects discussing about how it was possible for the airplanes to take the towers down

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 05:52 PM

Once again, s13speeddrft, only "evidence" found on YouTube is being considered here. Your Television show doesn't count.:rolleyes:

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 05:55 PM

Once again, s13speeddrft, only "evidence" found on YouTube is being considered here. Your Television show doesn't count.:rolleyes:

Do you even know what youtube is?? :loco:

s13speeddrft- Never saw that video so I cant say, maybe I can find it on google or youtube.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 05:56 PM

Delete*......

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 05:57 PM

Yes, it's a site where ANYONE can host ANYTHING they like. Kinda like imageshack.us is for pictures. You don't have to provide references or anything else, just slap up whatever half assed video you spliced together on your powerbook in your parents basement and gain internet stardom.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 06:00 PM

So your trying to tell me all the videos of WTC 7 collapsing are all edited?

mRclARK1

01-28-2007, 06:06 PM

If the collapse of WTC 7 wasnt a controlled demolition then how in the world can a few fires collapse a steel building??

A few fires, combined with damage from other much larger structures collapsing near by (ie: physical debris damaging the building and, more importantly, the physical shock to said building from the other collapses) could easily account for the collapse of WTC7.

And just for arguements sake... lets say you are correct that demolition charges were used on WTC7. I would say they were used to bring down, in as controlled a manner as possible given the limitations, an already unstable structure because of the reasons I mentioned above... not because of any conspiracy etc.

You are however entitled to your opinion... Just as much as I am entitled to think it's wrong; and you're entitled to believe the same about mine.

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 06:06 PM

That's the only video you are basing your argument on?

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 06:35 PM

A few fires, combined with damage from other much larger structures collapsing near by (ie: physical debris damaging the building and, more importantly, the physical shock to said building from the other collapses) could easily account for the collapse of WTC7.

And just for arguements sake... lets say you are correct that demolition charges were used on WTC7. I would say they were used to bring down, in as controlled a manner as possible given the limitations, an already unstable structure because of the reasons I mentioned above... not because of any conspiracy etc.

You are however entitled to your opinion... Just as much as I am entitled to think it's wrong; and you're entitled to believe the same about mine.

There was no major physical debris hitting WCT7. Maybe small ones but nothing big enough to bring it down. If the building could withstand earth quakes then I dont think two towers falling down 300ft away would cause it to collapse.
Ok so lets say that demolition charges were used.. That would make lots of people liars that day including Larry S. It would also be impossible to bring people to set up charges and plan it out in such a short amount of time. 5-7hrs.. hmmm

SimpleS14

01-28-2007, 06:47 PM

You guys are so blind its not even funny :-/

It's always going to be like that...regardless of the topic...your bound to face it. :-/ Hence why I'm tired of stating my opinions and/or thoughts on this matter.....however I do think someone planned this out and someone else knew about this well in advance to act upon it...just not in the right direction......

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 06:57 PM

It's always going to be like that...regardless of the topic...your bound to face it. :-/ Hence why I'm tired of stating my opinions and/or thoughts on this matter.....however I do think someone planned this out and someone else knew about this well in advance to act upon it...just not in the right direction......

Yeah your right but I wanted to get some good feedback on what others think. I plan to use this for a speech Im doing for my class and I know Im gonna piss off a lot people who come from military familes but the truth needs to be shown!

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 07:02 PM

... but the truth needs to be shown!

That is where you are going to get in trouble with people. You are arguing "your version" of the truth. The fact of the matter is, you weren't there. None of us were, so we don't know the truth. You are stating your OPINION, based on information you have gathered from various sources. There is a very large difference between OPINION and TRUTH. Please remember that when giving your speech or approaching a topic of this nature again.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 07:06 PM

but the truth needs to be shown!
You mean "your opinion," not the truth.

CKAMC

01-28-2007, 07:12 PM

before barry locks the thread...

This country is just as fucked up like any other country.

we just have our own idea on how we do it...

example?

Russia kills former KGB operative according to UK.

point made? I hope so.

besides we have to watch and see what Jack Bauer does monday night

ThatGuy

01-28-2007, 07:13 PM

No need for me to lock this. No rules have been broken here.

mRclARK1

01-28-2007, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by: Baka Sama
What agenda do firefighters have for saying they saw first hand explosives in the buildings

Just a point; but IF there were actually explosives in the building for the purposes of a demolition. Why/how did the firefighters see them? They would have had to have been placed on crucial sturctural points in the building etc... not places where they are really going to be in plain sight to say the least.

Anyway... from the movie Conspiracy Theory:

Alice: Can you prove any of this?
Jerry: No, absolutely not. A good conspiracy is an unproveable one. "

Watch it sometime if you haven't seen it... I think you will like it.

theicecreamdan

01-28-2007, 07:37 PM

There was no major physical debris hitting WCT7. Maybe small ones but nothing big enough to bring it down. If the building could withstand earth quakes then I dont think two towers falling down 300ft away would cause it to collapse.
Ok so lets say that demolition charges were used.. That would make lots of people liars that day including Larry S. It would also be impossible to bring people to set up charges and plan it out in such a short amount of time. 5-7hrs.. hmmm

I'm sure explosives could be placed in that amount of time. If your conspiracy theory is correct do you think the government would wait until a few planes hit to start thinking about where to set up the charges? No.

And I still don't see what the government has gained from any of this. Ok so they get to go to war? Who wants to do that? A couple million dollars? There are easier ways to steal that kind of money.

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 07:42 PM

im not even gonna bother quoting anyone... i already wasted a half hour watching the movies to give baka sama a chance even...

yet it seem he is only basing his argument, and a school paper??, on what two or three ppl said on a homemade video, a bit of terminology, and the fact that a guy insured his property? So what, he said pull it, hes not a demolition pro, hes just using common terms... Half the videos are based on the fact he said pull it, how else would u want him to word it? Shit, he was smart, if i could afford a 7 billion dollar complex, i would want that shit insured for alien attacks and tidal waves too...

and like some ppl said above, if the government can kill 3000 ppl, im sure they could get rid of these videos, and off the ppl making them... Why arent they? shit, baka sama, you better be careful, they are prolly tracing your IP as i type this

SimpleS14

01-28-2007, 09:48 PM

im sure they could get rid of these videos, and off the ppl making them... Why arent they? shit, baka sama, you better be careful, they are prolly tracing your IP as i type this

Don't you think that would look a bit too suspicious?

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 09:57 PM

I'm sure explosives could be placed in that amount of time. If your conspiracy theory is correct do you think the government would wait until a few planes hit to start thinking about where to set up the charges? No.

And I still don't see what the government has gained from any of this. Ok so they get to go to war? Who wants to do that? A couple million dollars? There are easier ways to steal that kind of money.

-Silverstein Buys WTC weeks before 9/11 and of course insures it heavily.

-WTC 1,2,7 are rigged with explosives during drills

-Planned planes fly into WTC on 9/11 and all building are set off and blow up

-Silverstein earns 500 million from the collapse

-Almost all of the SEC case files related to Enron's fraudulent activities were lost when World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed.. Citigroup international billion dollar fraud investigation was also lost... The US offices of foreign banks involved in "Leo Wanta", the $27.5 trillion created to wage economic warfare on certain nations were... you guessed it destroyed.

-Attacks are blamed on terrorist

-America now has a reason to go to war with..... Iraq?? Oh yeah I forgot bush has his own agenda with oil profit.

- G. Bush and Larry Silverstein... 6 degrees of separation... :coolugh:

And If I can find all this by just doing simple research imagine what I dont know...

Its all there for you guys if you can stomach it. Just do the research on your own. Im done, I got what I needed.. Enjoy the sad sad truth.:-/

Wow.. This is how the history books will say how WWIII started...

CKAMC

01-28-2007, 09:58 PM

No need for me to lock this. No rules have been broken here.

idk... political/religious threads.....

:ugh:

yeah

:ugh:

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 10:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXBJt5IeRw

If this is truly a conspiracy as you say it is, then I have to say that's the most ingenious way to kill 3,000+ people and to deceive the whole world.

http://paulmccain.worldmagblog.com/paulmccain/US%20Flag%20-%20Large.jpg

-Attacks are blamed on terrorist

-America now has a reason to go to war with..... Iraq?? Oh yeah I forgot bush needs his oil profit.
The "war" in Afghanistan was first, to look for Osama Bin Laden, but of course the war in Iraq is connected also.

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 10:02 PM

Don't you think that would look a bit too suspicious?

if they killed 3000 ppl, do you think a few more would matter? If they are able to master this huge plan and fool 250 million Americans, im sure they could off a few theorists without so much as raising an eyebrow... its not like the public knows who made those videos, just the one radio guy, they could easily make him crash his car, or get mugged... the KGB did it for years..

also, we have gov't clearances so high, if ppl found out what happened they would die, there are so many operations and events that no one ever knows about, im sure if the gov't wanted to plan something like this out, it would be so perfect none of these theories would be able to come to light...

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 10:06 PM

and to baka sama, i hope this 'project' isnt for college, b/c a few youtube videos with no SOLID facts would earn you a nice F, unless its like 'polisci 302: conspirators unite'...

any of my prof's would laugh me out of the classroom

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 10:07 PM

He's 23. Let's hope he's in college.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 10:10 PM

Its a textbook smoke and mirror trick... Correction 249,999,999 people were fooled.

Yes Im 23 and in college.. Knowledge is power.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 10:12 PM

Correction 249,999,999 people were fooled.
...more like the whole world.

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 10:14 PM

Nah. no other country besides America believes this BS for one min. But its all part of the game ya know. Go along with it cause it might help you later on.

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 10:16 PM

BS? You mean the conspiracy theory right? ;)

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 10:20 PM

Its a textbook smoke and mirror trick... Correction 249,999,999 people were fooled.

Yes Im 23 and in college.. Knowledge is power.

well since were crunchin numbers, approx. 298,444,214... but seriously, the whole world except these few theorists... you know theres a group of ppl that still believe the world is flat, prolly just as many as believe this...

knowledge is power... but not if its just assumptions and false beliefs, youre sitting here, probably willing to bet money on the fact that its all a government plot, seems to me your just as close minded as everyone else... and wat class is this for, im a political science major at rutgers, and a few of my teachers are on top of the political world in their areas, and even my professor steven bronner, one of the leading voices against the war and Bush, would laugh this idea and research (lack thereof) out of his classroom

xcusememisswyn

01-28-2007, 10:22 PM

Nah. no other country besides America believes this BS for one min. But its all part of the game ya know. Go along with it cause it might help you later on.

who else doesnt believe it, i must have missed those facts in all the movies and your ranting and raving... if they honestly didnt believe it they would come out and say so, America isnt the superpower we once were, if countries and people around the world felt it was a fake, im sure there would be more supporting evidence then a few youtube videos

Baka Sama

01-28-2007, 10:29 PM

I have to do a persuasive speech that would make people question what they think is right for my final in a speech class. Nothing too serious but I think this would be a good topic. It’s a fun class that I should’ve took a long time ago. Thanks everyone, good discussion. I should get at least one rep, for actually making a interesting thread! :naughty:

ALTRNTV

01-28-2007, 10:33 PM

I should get at least one rep, for actually making a interesting thread! :naughty:
Asking for rep just begs for -rep. :naughty:

Interesting thread? Not really (to me).

Maverick7687

01-29-2007, 12:18 AM

The way I see it, and this may have been said before, I didn't read the whole thread.
People are going to come up with their own theories on what happened. I have seen all the videos out to prove it was a US Gov. attack and everything that says the opposite. It gets to the point where you don't know what to believe anymore.
The government has amazing ways of covering things up and hiding things from the public eye. If they don't want you to know something, you won't. All you can do is hope your government wouldn't lie to a whole country, or to the whole world, just to get rid of a couple buildings, to get more oil cheaper, to knock out/take over a country, whatever the case may be.
All I can do is just hope our country is not being run by a group of greedy liars and actually have some people with some common decency left in the White House.

I could go on about this for hours as I have in numerous face-to-face discussions with people but I am just going to end it on this. We have to have faith in, and support out government. There are people in other countries dieing right now because of the decisions of this countries leaders.
My own cousin was over there because of these decisions. All I can do is hope that it was for a good and just cause and not because some greedy fuck in the US Government doesn't like the way another country is being run or just so the US can "Flex our military muscles".

-Mav

airsoft

01-29-2007, 12:52 AM

Maverick7687

01-29-2007, 12:59 AM

this whole WTC-7 thing...

You think anyone can make a clear decision whether to demolish a building or not when you see complete disaster going on? Destroy it or not...

Haven't you ever made a decision where its like... well... damn fuck it.. for the better hopefully taking the current conditions that we see...
That's true, but what everyone is saying is the third building could not have been a "Well, damn, fuck it" decision based on the time it takes to set everything up. It would have had to already been rigged up to come down with the other two. (Did that make any sense? Looks weird to me..)

azndummie

01-29-2007, 01:34 AM

loose change anybody?

illvialuver

01-29-2007, 01:43 AM

its all rigged.

SochBAT

01-29-2007, 02:12 PM

I remember reading something about the Washington Memorial (?) or some other memorial, the one with all the names on it. IIRC, there were tons of names of the deceased on there that were actually alive. Something else about passengers on a plane or something missing.

One cold hard fact tho..

'Once you see things your way and come up with a theory, any other evidence just goes to empower your thoughts.' - The movie with Catherine Zeta Jone, 'Jack Bauer', and Zeta's Husband. Name eludes me.

pbcstylez

01-29-2007, 03:43 PM

do you mean the sentinel?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443632/

kouki_s14

01-29-2007, 04:15 PM

We can all sit here and argue about it all day long, but when it comes down to it, people are going to believe what they want to believe. I've read both sides of the story, I've seen all the videos. I did not think it was a waste of time at all. I'm not gonna see one side of a story and automatically reject the opposing side, as some of you are doing here. If anyone of you truly care, you can research each side of the story yourselves and come up with your own decision and not let the news, other people, or this thread change you opnion on the matter. No one in this country wants to believe that the government planned those attacks, because that would make our "land of the free" a land of blinded fools. We dont want to think of ourselves as that gullable, because we are suppose to be the best dam country in the world. No one wants to hear that this incredible country we live in murdered its own citizens for profits, and there are those who are overly cautious when dealing with the government. But both sides have the question, "what if?". What if it was a terrorist attack, or What if it was an inside job? There are only so many people who know the truth and not one of them is on this forum. I can argue both sides of this topic until everyone is sick of me and i get banned or something, but it would all be pointless, because everyone here has already chosen what to believe and a video on youtube or a government issued report on it will not change their minds. I can see both sides as being truthful, but ive chosen to ignore the issue becausing worrying about it wont get me anywhere. All we can do here is hope that the soldiers fighting the battles are not dieing for a lie, because again NONE of us know the absolute truth.

-Henry

RJF

01-29-2007, 09:49 PM

Baka Sama

01-29-2007, 10:28 PM

This is at the root of the problem and the divisiveness in the country today, according to the left 9/11 was not an act of war but just mass murder.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-bell28jan28,0,1900868.story?coll=la-home-commentary

Because of this attitude people have to come up with wacky conspiracy theories. Can you imagine if this had been the attitude back in 1941, we'd be speaking Japanese right now.

Just because we are all living somewhat normal lives, while our brave men and women are fighting for our freedom and continued existance, people have to wake up and realize that "We are at War" and the enemy wants to kill us.

Hahaha Im sorry but what your saying is just too funny. We are at war with Iraq! Name one thing Iraq has did to the US. Name one way Iraq has tried to kill us. Please dont even try to compare this to WWII. Yes there are brave men and women fighting in Iraq. Fighting for a what they think is our freedom? Yes. But heres the thing.. WE have become the Germans! I know you are not gonna change your mind on the matter until it becomes public so until that day I have a big o' I told ya so waiting for you. I really dont have anything else to say, there is NO TRUTH. Only two opposing opinions. So while you raise your American flag and stand behind it blindly I simply laugh and raise my own flag...:bs: