Opinion Wanted: F22c in S-chassis

[ManoNegra]

A friend and I are having a little discussion. He's of the opinion that an S2000 engine in an S-chassis isn't a bad idea, quite the contrary, it's something serioulsy discussing.
I don't share such entusiasm and, in fact, think is a rather ludicrous idea.
So we decided to gather some more objective points of view. Opinions?

[zvenom]

F20C in the s13 and F22C in the s14

[Unholy S14]

there was a kid on nico that had one.

Car was pretty sick. I actually think that motor is pretty badass even though its kinda low on the torque.

Boost can fix that :)

[ManoNegra]

See, you already talking about boost. If that's the case stick with CA, SR, RB, etc. A few bolt ons and 300+ is easily attainable.

[jeeper_x]

i have a redtop SR20det and i run with s2000 all the time.....the s2000s are not very fast......and i dun think it's worth the time of conversion and money.....i'd rather go 2jz-gte or 1jz-gte then the F22c....

[snatch13]

I like the idea. There are a few people who have put them (F20C/F22C) in a AE86 but only a handful in a s-chassis from what I've seen. I agree the torque is fairly low, but the motor puts out 240ish hp and rev's to around 9k... which to me is well worth it.

On the other hand, the motor is expensive and by the time you fab up everything you need you're prob looking in the RB26 price range, so why not just do that?

[240sxScores]

I think if he likes the high revving of the honda motor then let him do it. But IMO if i wanted the high revving honda motor id just go buy a honda car. And im saying high revving because i think thats were the honda motors are most fun because you can rev the shit out of them. Not saying you cant do it to the sr20 you can but you dont really because its turbo'd and you dont need to soo. I would turbo the f20c, but keep it in the s2000 and not into a 240. But yea im pretty much on your side.

[ManoNegra]

yup, fabrication (mounts, tranny, etc) + wiring would be a pain. Not to mention the high price for the motor.

[snatch13]

the s2000s are not very fast....

Define fast. An s2k fast in a straight line? Maybe not, but I bet it can kick the shit out of your sr powered 240 all day in autox or on a road course. No one cares how fast your car is on the street, so stfu.

[seven.62]

the s2000 motors do not have enough power to make the s chassis shine like the factory boosted motors do, i have friend with a new s2000 and my s13 w/ sr on 10psi smokes him bad every time, badly and he runs consistent 14.1's. it would be more trouble than its worth, now maybe a k20 or 24 variant mated to a s2k tranny would be something to think about. these have signifcanly more torque and a good powerband

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

f20c/f22c is the best NA 4 cyl. period. as long as you want NA, then it might be worth it. swapping just to turbo is a very poor investment. and i know a thing or two about poor investments, like that breakfast machine i bought.

[ManoNegra]

Relax guys, we don't need to get all tense about this. We're not comparing two cars (although I would love to own an S2000) just the feasability and logistics of the f22 in an S-chassis.

[zvenom]

S2000(Weight: 2809 ) + F20C: 240HP/ 153 LB of torque or F22C: 240HP/ 161 LB of torque= Hella fun (speaking from experience)
S13 (Weight: 2699 to 2800) + F20C or F22C= Should equal the same or better right?
S14 (Weight: 2753) + do i need to break it down again?
I know you can get a whole lot more HP and TQ from any other forced incution motor out there and some N/A's but the S2000 makes it happen, when ever i drove the s2k it never left me thinking the motor needed more HP/TQ, well maybe on the straightaways but that's not what the car is ment for and neither is the zilvia i think.

[ManoNegra]

f20c/f22c is the best NA 4 cyl. period. as long as you want NA, then it might be worth it. swapping just to turbo is a very poor investment. and i know a thing or two about poor investments, like that breakfast machine i bought.

yes agreed, but what do you think about it being a suitable heart transplant for an s-chassis? That is the question.

[jeeper_x]

Define fast. An s2k fast in a straight line? Maybe not, but I bet it can kick the shit out of your sr powered 240 all day in autox or on a road course. No one cares how fast your car is on the street, so stfu.

i don't think so....did i even say my car was fast?.....i will define "fast" for you in my opinion, so no flaming here.....only the jdm engines tho....fast = 2jz-gte, rb26dett, c32b, 13b, 4g63, etc......not very fast = sr20det, f20c, vq35de, etc....fyi, i love the S2000, but i can't afford it......chicks think s2000 are cute....

[eastcoastS14]

^^ i would like to see this... i think it would be a good project but something that would be better done by a large tuner or big shop somewhere with deep pockets saw a video of an S2000 motor in a AE86 that was pretty nasty. it would make for a sick show car, pull up and pop the hood and watch the suprised look on peoples faces:naughty: . it would def be a serious project tho but f22c with a love fab turbo kit (GT35R version of course) would be sick....my suggestion NSX motor mounted in the trunk of an s13 :keke:

[ManoNegra]

But it makes sense on an AE86 since it is a significanlty underpowerd platform and most genuine power platform upgrades require fabrication and cash. Such is not the case for the S-chassis, on the contrary, good power is by comparision so much easier to come by than an F20 transplant.

[ciGARRETTsRbad4u]

f20c/f22c is the best NA 4 cyl. period. as long as you want NA, then it might be worth it. swapping just to turbo is a very poor investment. and i know a thing or two about poor investments, like that breakfast machine i bought.


You've obviously overlooked the K20.

[atom]

I don't think the AE86 argument holds up because you can easily turbo a 4AG. There are just a ton of parts out there for that. Most people who transplant F20's into hachis want a nice NA motor. I don't see how that changes with a S chassis car. If you want a nice NA 4 banger go F20/F22.

Although if I had the cash and time I remember seeing a S13 in option or some other JDM mag that had an RB26DE (turbos taken off....) with TWM throttle bodies that was pretty sweet.

[ManoNegra]

I don't think the AE86 argument holds up because you can easily turbo a 4AG. There are just a ton of parts out there for that. Most people who transplant F20's into hachis want a nice NA motor. I don't see how that changes with a S chassis car. If you want a nice NA 4 banger go F20/F22.

Although if I had the cash and time I remember seeing a S13 in option or some other JDM mag that had an RB26DE (turbos taken off....) with TWM throttle bodies that was pretty sweet.

I think the argument holds because to get 240-260 hp out of it takes more than just bolting up a turbo. We're talking rebuilt motor, cams, and fuel management which all adds up to $$$.
Besides we were talking s-chassis here before the random tangents...

[eastcoastS14]

yeah and just for the record s2000's are seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexy i was seriously considering buying one test drove it and that thing is nice motor is nice stock i can only imagine tuned wish had the cash but i am happy with my s14

[OptionZero]

i don't think so....did i even say my car was fast?.....i will define "fast" for you in my opinion, so no flaming here.....only the jdm engines tho....fast = 2jz-gte, rb26dett, c32b, 13b, 4g63, etc......not very fast = sr20det, f20c, vq35de, etc....fyi, i love the S2000, but i can't afford it......chicks think s2000 are cute....

First...thats today's most idiotic thread of the week. We got the Supra/NSX/RX7/Mitsu engines in the U.S. There're hardly "JDM". The "JDM" s2000 makes roughly the same power as the USDM one. Furthermore, "engines" aren't fast...cars are. More powerful engine in a lighter car = more "fast", and comparing larger 6's to smaller i4's is retarded, especially when turbos enter the mix on both sides.

Second, the S2000 engine swap won't be cost effective. IIRC the engine itself is less efficient than the stock z06 engine (more power, better economy, better power/weight ratio). The S-chassis is only slightly lighter than the S2K, so any weight advantage would be minimal.

Third, an F2xC powered S-chassis, would still be fun if done properly.

For the cost of the engine, chassis, and work, you're approaching the cost of a used S2k, which will be a newer chassis to begin with. As a purely subjective matter, the S2k is a very good looking car even in stock form.

[ManoNegra]

For the cost of the engine, chassis, and work, you're approaching the cost of a used S2k, which will be a newer chassis to begin with. As a purely subjective matter, the S2k is a very good looking car even in stock form.

Pretty much what I said but my friend was skeptical of my 'biased' opinion.:loco:
It would be a 'cool' or 'fun' thing to do if you happen to have an f20 with harness and ecu lying around and can fabricate.

[chibo]

First...thats today's most idiotic thread of the week. We got the Supra/NSX/RX7/Mitsu engines in the U.S. There're hardly "JDM". The "JDM" s2000 makes roughly the same power as the USDM one. Furthermore, "engines" aren't fast...cars are. More powerful engine in a lighter car = more "fast", and comparing larger 6's to smaller i4's is retarded, especially when turbos enter the mix on both sides.

Second, the S2000 engine swap won't be cost effective. IIRC the engine itself is less efficient than the stock z06 engine (more power, better economy, better power/weight ratio). The S-chassis is only slightly lighter than the S2K, so any weight advantage would be minimal.

Third, an F2xC powered S-chassis, would still be fun if done properly.

For the cost of the engine, chassis, and work, you're approaching the cost of a used S2k, which will be a newer chassis to begin with. As a purely subjective matter, the S2k is a very good looking car even in stock form.
Just one thing, the zo6 and other muscle cars get gas mileage because they're geared low. The S2000 is geared high.

[ms!3]

seen one on ebay for sale a while back, looked like a pretty clean swap. dunno if it was f20 or f22 but it was in a white coupe. mabey some of you guys saw it. i wouldnt do it tho, then again im not really much of a honda guy either.

[Kn1ves]

do it if u have deep pockets, love the s-chassis and plan on keeping the car for DD duties for longer than 5 more years.

[wootwoot]

I'd rather put it in a Miata. There are to many easy options allready for the s chassis. Maybe if it was completely stripped out race car on 15's.

[drift freaq]

I pretty much echo OptionZero's setiments except for one point. An F20x series might be fun in a S13 but a complete wasted of time money and effort.
Now on to Jeepers_X statement that so randomly picks engines. SR20's are not slow. You also left out RB25's and VQ30's and to educate your misinformed opinion the VQ now is Nismo's engine of choice and they won the JGTC with a twin turbo VQ30. YOu think the VQ is slow go to engineering school. For a normally aspirated all aluminum V6 to put out 300hp stock is no small feat . Remember its got way more torque than your fabled F series is ever going to have .

For all you who have forgotten. Torque is what you feel when you accelerate. Its what pushes you back in your seat. HP is what makes you sustain higher revs and speed.
Therefor an engine with much lower torque vs hp will can rev high and sustain a high rate of speed at the expense of feeling all that powerful in the lower to mid range.
Torque is the magic that moves you off the line quicker. Honda gears there cars low i.e. 4.20:1 rear ends to make up for that lack of torque. Look at any high torque car and you will rear ends much more freeway oriented or higher i.e. numerically lower becuase the torque that is put out moves the car quicker.
Torque=quick
HP=fast
You want to balance it out and the F series Honda engine is the closest Honda has ever come to doing that. Though it still lacks torque and magazines and tuners have commented on it.
Those are the facts and basically the F series in a Nissan is a waste of time money given all the great Nissan engines available ( and Toyota engines and V8's for the hybrid lovers).

[Baka Sama]

Funny I had been thinking about this for a few days now and now I see this. I think its a pretty cool idea but you gotta have the $$$ for it and really love the s2000 motor. If you swap a new motor in your car then have to use FI to get the power you want youve failed.

[OptionZero]

Just one thing, the zo6 and other muscle cars get gas mileage because they're geared low. The S2000 is geared high.

Well, I assume you're going to keep the tranny of any swap, so any benefits from gearing will be retained.

The z06 is slightly heavier than the S2k (300lbs difference give or take).

[blackflag_Rms13]

It's been done. Search for the old thread.

[chibo]

Well, I assume you're going to keep the tranny of any swap, so any benefits from gearing will be retained.

The z06 is slightly heavier than the S2k (300lbs difference give or take).
300lb? That's it? Jesus christ.

[drift freaq]

Just one thing, the zo6 and other muscle cars get gas mileage because they're geared low. The S2000 is geared high.
Chibo you have that backwards. See in gearing terms low is numerically high and high is numerically low.
Now to answer your question as to why, basically it goes like this... (which I did explain earlier but will clarify).
When a car is geared numerically higher it gives it more low end off the line push.Which makes it quicker but removes some of its top end speed by doing so.
Hence why drag racers put lower gears in their cars (in there own terminology to be exact) i.e. numerically higher. This allows them to get off the line much quicker.
Conversely a car geared numerically lower has less off the line quickness in exchange for top end speed. This is exactly why they say the car is geared higher.
Now some of you may not know this if you A never got into drag racing or B never took an Autotech course.

Now in high torque applications most manufacturers will put a higher gear i.e. numerically lower or more freeway oriented because the car has so much torque it can get off the line relatively quick anyways. Vice Versa for low torque applications. Drag racers like throw high torque at lower gears(numerically higher) for the shear quickness of acceleration out of the hole i.e trap times or trap speeds.
Class is out for the day. (steps down from the podium and leaves the room).

[Kahl]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the f2x engine spin the opposite direction to the likes of sr, rb etc...?
Therefore wouldn't you also need the s2k diff? Or is the drive direction altered in the gbox (seems stupid to me, but possible).

[blitz180]

I think that it all depends on what you want to do. Granted if you want to rev it would probably cost about the same by time you make mounts, etc. to buy an SR20DE (no T) and do some work to make it rev, if a high revving NA is what you want. F20 might be a swap to make someone take a second look at a car show booth, if showing off your install skills is wanted. If you are going turbo, I say stay within the family, nissan makes good turbo engines. But that's my opinion... someone may have a better idea.

[tbowzer]

S2000 are really nice cars. Fast, fun, pan-t dropper. I would never do the f20 into s13, seems pointless. For the money you could have a nice ka-t or sr.
Check this though...k23a1 (found in new RDX)

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/12/0,,i=129243&sz=1,00.jpg

heard that it is capable to bolt up to an f20 series tranny..Interesting.

[infinitexsound]

not worth it, honestly... would be a nice engine in a much lighter car like a corolla or miata... but not in a s chassis...seems like a LS motor would solve all the problems with power that is cost effective... the parts market is there now for that chevy swap... so theres not as much fabbin as needed...

[sideview_180sx]

lock this thread, shit has gone so far off. just search, this subject has been discussed before. If you want F20/F22 then do it. Let everyone else nitpick.

[BOROSUN]

ive been day dreaming about vq
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/allen22/100_0304.jpg

uugh wtf
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/bf6ed458-2a2a-4662-9284-98620170f7a9.htm

[Gumballf355]

The only place where an F20 or F22 would work well would be at an autoX. Anywhere else... and it'll be super loud and very slow. SR or LS... those are very good, inexpensive options.

[chibo]

Chibo you have that backwards. See in gearing terms low is numerically high and high is numerically low.
That's what I was trying to say :hsdance: Now I'm all confused :ugh:

[ManoNegra]

Thanks for participating and I agree sideview, this thread has accomplished what it was set out to do which was to settle a friendly argument.
/thread.