Valve Tapping

[Skiman112]

I have heard my engine tap for too long?  Has anyone taken care of this problem, unlike me who just turnst the radio up.  I am using 10w 30 oil and have no leaks.
 I have a feeling it could be my valves need tightening.  anyone done it before?  

are you sure its not your timing chain? or your guides if its a ka24de? or both?

[Skiman112]

it doesnt seem like it owuld be a timing chain ( or guide) problem.  I have the one noise at start up.  and its a ka24e

[vududoc]

tapping?? hmmm. text book is that possible adjustment is necessary to the valves...(i have the book)....possible bearing as well(dread the thought).....lastly timing, loose plug or crappy gas.....or the whole kit and kaboodle!

now did i confuse you?

[Skiman112]

i can almost garuntee that it is a valve tap, my question is: has anyone ajusted valves, or even replaced valve springs before, and have any words of advice or anything like that.

[LanceS13]

I may be just pulling this out of my ass, but didn't think you could adjust the valves on the KA.

[chickenmanq]

Ya can't.  They're hydraulic.

[LanceS13]

That's what I thought.
Put the end of a screwdriver on the front cover of the engine where the timing chain is and stick your ear on the handle.  If you can pin-point the sound to there....it's the chain or a guide most likely.
If it's not incredibly loud....it could just be the injectors clicking.  Mine click fairly audibly...just a KA quirk.

[Ni5mo180SX]

yea cant adjust the valves on the SOHC because its hydraulic. Guess your valvetrains showing its age. I rebuilt mine.

[SlowS14]

Ive got a 96 w/70k .Ive had a little bit of a ticking for the last 6 months or so.Ive already tried the screwdriver and it seems to be coming from the timing chain.Still haven't worked up the sack to tear my engine apart to fix it. Seems like it would be a bitch.Has anyone done it themselves? How hard was it?

like i said <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> i have a ka24e and i replaced my t chain 3000 miles ago pretty easy :-D

(Edited by CAMPPAIN at 8:15 am on Jan. 17, 2002)

[bama240]

I don't think that it would be the timing chain. &nbsp;If it was, it would be doing it all the time, and come from the front of the motor. &nbsp;I have the same problem, but mine will change in &quot;pitch&quot; and sometimes even go away after I run it a little. &nbsp;I have come to the conclution that I will be putting a new cam and rockers in just as soon as I can find somebody that sells them. &nbsp;Hopefully the ends of the valve stems will not be messed up and I will not have to pull the head. &nbsp;One guy told me to put 30 weight oil in it, that mobile 1 tri-syn. &nbsp;is famous for making your lifters tick. &nbsp;I dunno. &nbsp;Any Ideas were to get valves and rockers.

[thewholefnshow]

if you are getting knock from deposits or something, do what my friend does, he has a corrado (driven the PISS out of) and it gets knock every once in a while. So he goes down to about a 1/4 tank of gas and throws in 2-3 bottles of octane boost.. the engine runs really hot idling for a little while, but it cleans the engine really well. Not a carbon deposit in site.... some people are scared to do it, but I have seen it done like 15 times....

[bama240]

They would have good reason to be worried if they put that much octane boost in a 1/4 tank of gas!! &nbsp;Any idea how many seals or gaskets he has blown out? &nbsp;Every look at the inside of his cat or muffler?? &nbsp;Just because you don't see it, does not mean that it does no damage. &nbsp;We run avation fuel in our dirt track car. &nbsp;Every 3 races, we have to put new head gaskets and carb gaskets in because of the heat and that it eats automotive gaskets at that his octane. &nbsp;Also, we run a &quot;jumbo&quot; size radiator to try to keep it cool. &nbsp;But, it goes really fast......and thats what we are after!!

[konkman]

Low octane will cause your engine to ping. &nbsp;Our cars were designed for 91/92+ octane. &nbsp;But the valves do loosen up over time and can start to click. &nbsp;Unless you want to drop the $$$ to replace them then I would say just to suffer through the noise. &nbsp;

[rabbit23]

don't our injectors tap? maybe this is what you are hearing?

[Ni5mo180SX]

The valvetrain is most likely where your problems coming from. Its probably a dead guide

[grahams14]

The injectors make a ticking/ tapping noise when they fire. It does sound a lot like worn valve tappets. &nbsp;It's only really noticeable at idle on mine tho and even the its not loud.

[Skiman112]

Okay,,
&nbsp; &nbsp; Even though my valve lifters may be hydraulicly controlled, that doesnt mean that the valves, and rocker arms cant be ajusted, right? &nbsp;Does anyone know any torque specs on anything in/on the valve train.

&nbsp;I have heard to take the valve cover off, and loosen the #### out of all the rockers, and turn the car on, so that they can all open up and get some fresh oil in. &nbsp;Not too sure about that though. &nbsp;

&nbsp; Has anyone tried that engine flush junk?

&nbsp; &nbsp;If need be i'll replace my springs or what not. &nbsp;ITs just annoying as all ####.

thanks
mike

[wherezmytofu]

start using higher octane and also check the timing, it could've moved, u cant do a valve adjustment to a car with hydrolic lifters <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

you can not adjust valves on our engines. plain and simple. again are you sure its not your chain? i work at nissan and see 240's in and out with the same noise its most noticable on start up when cold. also i replaced my t chain.

Valves can not be adjusted.

[crazycuban]

i just put little pads on my valves...works nice...

[fadenb]

ok anyone know for shure? hydrolic or not? one nissan dealership say yes the other say no, and if its hydrolic you would have to by new lifters for new cams or to adjust the annoying tapping... right? and if not you need new shims for new cams or to adjust the shims for a valve adjustment? So if your factory sticker under the hood says shim adjustment for valve adjsting then its not hydrolic. so you can do a valve adjustment-right? Its getting confuzzzzing anyone really know or does it verry on production date of the motor?

[Sick240]

Yet again, are you SURE it isnt your timing chain, I have done much research on this, and when you lose your oil pressure after the car has been off for a while, when you start it up the chain rubs, until pressure is built up and then it stops, I was told, that the OEM oil filters or the ka24e's have a check valve in them so the oil pressure doesnt dissapate, thus solving the problem.

[Skiman112]

Yeah i know of the timing chain rattle, haha! i have that too, at startup, untill pressure is built.

Oem oil filter?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> &nbsp;I have worked at a parts store for just about a year now, and i do research on all products we sell. &nbsp; As far as i know, all fram filters have what is called an &quot;anti-drain back valve&quot; &nbsp;Meaning it holds and is supposed to maintain oil pressure. &nbsp;However, i am skeptical that it works as well as it is advertised.

im taking my valve cover off today, and im just going to open valves one at a time and tighten everything to spec, take pics of every step, and then post the link so no one has to deal with the annoyance of tap.

[Skiman112]

okay, heres the scoop...
i took my valve cover off last night, &nbsp;Romoved each rocker arm rail, and took all the rockers off, and cleaned them out VERY well. &nbsp;Making sure to clean out the pinholes in the the top of the lifter side of the rocker.

they were all pretty well munged up, but i cleaned em out. &nbsp;put it back together, and it tapped worse. &nbsp;Turns out that the mung inside the one lifter, which was clogged, was actually holding pressure. &nbsp;HAHA! &nbsp;So its off to the yard i go. &nbsp;

anyone know if each rocker is different? &nbsp;Or are they interchangeble?

pics will be up when the job is all done.

[S13Grl]

I believe they're all interchangable.

I hope everything works out for you!

[wac]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bama240 @ Jan. 17 2002,12:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think that it would be the timing chain. If it was, it would be doing it all the time, and come from the front of the motor. I have the same problem, but mine will change in "pitch" and sometimes even go away after I run it a little.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Just thought I'd ressurect this thread since I have the same problem...

My S13 has done this for about two years now. And since I replaced the timing chain and guides last summer, I can definitely rule that out.

The ticking only happens after a hard run, such as at an autocross or hillclimb. It's loud, shows up only at idle, and I can get it to decrease in intensity and increase in pitch by revving to 3K for a minute or so and letting it settle back into idle. At its loudest, it sounds like a drumstick hitting the rim of a drum. As I rev the engine, it changes to a metallic ticking sound before disappearing.

I first thought it was the oil pump, so I added some spacers to the pressure regulator spring. This made the ticking a little quieter, but it still happens just as often. The ticking is also louder if the oil level is on the low side of the oil dipstick.

Can anyone guess if I have an oil pump or valve lifter problem?

Thanks,

-WaC
Wayne

[flipboi13]

I'm not sure if this is a solution, but try the valve lash adjustment. &nbsp;Yes, the lifters are hydralic, which means they are self adjusting and lubricate themselves with fresh oil. &nbsp;As long as they aren't clogged or sticking, then a tapping noise in the valvetrain compartment would most likely be the valve lash. &nbsp;Valve lash is the VERY SMALL distance in between the camshaft lobes' "heal" and the shims. &nbsp;If this is too far apart, having thin oil which is required during colder seasons will make this more noticible. &nbsp;This is mentioned in the chilton's manual, and i'm not sure what the specs are, look it up and use a feeler guage. &nbsp;I'm not going to list the process, but I'll underscore the need to have the engine warm before doing this process, and you need to have all your measurements done before the engine cools. &nbsp;(don't burn yourself tho).

What you are doing is getting the actual distance b/t the heel and shim. &nbsp;Then you need to get the recommended distance and replace the shim with one from nissan that will make the distance = to the recommended one. &nbsp;The reason the engine has to be warm is this is operating temperature. &nbsp;At op temp, metal expands but the exhaust side gets hotter so that would explain a difference in the distance.

[orange-grey]

My KA24DE has made all sorts of wierd noises since I bought it with 90k miles. &nbsp;First, there's a metallic scraping noise coming from the timing chain area at idle. &nbsp;I removed the top guide, made sure the tensioners weren't stuck, bolted it back together and it still makes the noise. &nbsp;The chain is tight though, so I'm not too worried about it. Then, when you're driving and go wide open throttle from around 2000 rpm, there seems to be a lot of random clicks and clacks from under the hood, particularly in the 3000 rpm range. &nbsp;It's not steady, it's more random like popcorn popping in the microwave. &nbsp;Somebody suggested it was pinging, but it definiately sounds like a metallic tick. &nbsp;It hasn't got any worse, even with a couple excursions past redline, so I'm not too worried about it either.

BTW, I ran 5-30 mobil 1 for the first oil change, but now I'm running 15-50 to cut down on oil consumption.

[flipboi13]

That doesn't sound too good. &nbsp;If you haven't I'd recommend a full tune up. &nbsp;And are you excessively losing fuel? &nbsp;If you are, do a compression test and leak down test. &nbsp;Strange noises are sometimes normal, but ultimately they are b/c of metal/metal contact, which is bad in the long run.

[240Driver39]

well, to one of ur noises orange-grey, there are 2 guides for the upper chain, the upper most on, and the one on &nbsp;the right of the chain. &nbsp;It is recommended that u remove both, i had the noise and after removing both, it was gone. &nbsp;The second one, the lower guide on the upper chain involves mroe work to get to, but is worth getttin to b4 i can cause damage. &nbsp;Its only an hour or so +/- job to remove.

and some of those other noises, not sure by ur description, could be heat shields that are loose and making noise. have someone rev the car to those areas and try to specifically source the sounds.

also what octane gas are u using


just some ideas

[/etc/shadow]

Check your damn oil pressure. I developed this problem and all of the sudden notice that I had been driving around 2 QUARTS OF OIL LOW.

[sentiumprogram]

I have a KA24de that sounds like this. with exhaust sounding like a rattling noise as well..

YouTube - 240sx KA24de problems: sticky valve lifter tick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8cm8V4BbdM)

same problem as yours?

[pinky121388]

I had this exact noise.. Take your valve cover off, and check the TOP guide for the timing chain, see if its loose.. Nissan OMITed it, so good luck on finding one there. Then flip your valve cover over and see if it looks like something has been hitting it
(you know where the timing chain spins around.)

Thats what the noise sounds like.. Like i said i had that exact noise, and that was my problem

[sentiumprogram]

I really appreciate your input. I'll check this out and give everyone an update as soon as I get a solution

[cycloneskate]

ok- for clarification, the single cam (sohc) ka24E engine in 89-90 s13s has hydraulic lifters, and they cannot be adjusted. the dual cam (dohc) ka24DE engine sold in model years 91-98 has valve lash that can be adjusted, but it is labor intensive, and requires the use of feeler gauges on a warm motor, and a micromoter. plus you have to buy replacement shims of the exact size for any valves that are out of spec.