car won't start

[NismoSilvia270R]

cranks but wont start
fuel line after (brand new) filter only trickles fuel when cranking.
no spark from coil or ignition wires.

one damp morning it all just cut out.

its a '93 convertible with '92 5-speed swap.
i wired the inhibitor switch so that i get reverse lights and the car thinks its in park all the time so the top works.
i wired in the clutch switch so it can't be started in gear.
i read the fsm, but i dont have a multimeter so its pretty much useless.
ive swapped out both egi relays near the battery and the coil and transistor with no effect.
removed driver side kick panel to look for "circuit breakers" that the fsm says are there. i dont recognize them.
all fuses and links are good to go.
i plugged in a separate fuel pump externally and the guage works but not the pump. two pumps cant be bad right?
car wont spark on ether.
i lost track of whatelse ive done, but if anyone has had similar problems and any suggestions in figurin this out without a multimeter (which i cant afford, honestly), id grealty appreciate them.

[los_inc]

first you need to get a multimeter it's the best 20 bucks you'll ever spend
then after that double and triple check all the connections to the fuel pump make sure you have no leaks or kinks in your new lines.
i have a brand new oem fuel pump if you figure out your is shot or not
-los

[NismoSilvia270R]

alright. afforded a multimeter. went through the entire fuel system trouble shoot from fsm (except my leads are not long enough to reach the relay box and the fuel pump at the same time, so i skipped that step).

I jumped the fuel pump directly to 12v to check for working condition. spools great.

i checked the ignitor and the coil. check out.

current problems:
-no noticeable spark from coil (lawn mower spark plug in the coil wire)
-little to no fuel pressure (disconnected fuel filter while cranking)

i will try another ether start to check for ignition again, but results will most likely be disappointing.

could this be an ECU problem?
i say this because the red LED in the back is never on and does not respond to mode selector.
i have a 5spd ecu laying around, but i dont want to touch it without confirmation.

any other ideas?

thanks in advance

[drew935]

so are you getting spark at cyl #1? If so, then you have a fuel issue right? You need to check all the fuel components.

[NismoSilvia270R]

*fuel components check out, along with ignition components*

update.

blower motor works, guages work for the most part (cant check speed or tach), all red warning lights on the right side of cluster work, dome lights work, and convertible top works along with rear quarter windows.

turn key to "ON" and no spark from coil, no 5sec fuel pump pumping, and most importantly--

NO CEL or LED on ECU lighting up.

also headlights turn on but dont go up.

where do these five things meet up or could be affected?
1.spark
2.fuel
3.headlight motors
4.Check Engine Light
5.ECU LED

I noticed there are CIRCUIT BREAKERS in the driverside kick panel in the FSM, but i cant find them in real life.

also, there is an orange w/ black striped wire up under there that has been cut and twisted together. (when together P/L work, when apart P/L dont work, when tapped together Doors Lock Automatically)

The car died early morning in the rain, so i have reason to believe a short may have caused it all.

if anyone is familiar with the wiring please help because my eyes hurt from staring at schematics.

thanks
-brad

['90RPS13]

Check the Headlight fuse in the engine bay. Replace coil.

Still not getting fuel? Maybe a clogged line? Old Fuel filter nasty?

[NismoSilvia270R]

all fuses on passenger side engine bay are OK. replaced coil with known good coil-->no spark

nope, i dont think so, brand new fuel filter.

i know the driverside relay box had relays for the headlight motors, but i havent pulled the intake to get to it. is there anything else in that box that could affect the 5 problems mentioned above?

[LB.Motoring]

go through and look your wiring closely...

sometimes it can get worn, near the coil..

[NemeGuero]

Check your EGI fuse under the hood! LAWLZ..

shorted MAFS wiring, measure MAFS voltages TO MAFS and check interior fuses.

[NismoSilvia270R]

update. ALL FUSES AND RELAYS ARE OK. FSM states car should at least start and run in limp mode despite mafs voltage. i did not check mafs voltage. i may, but im out of daylight.

headlight motors working again after replacing the blue relay behind the kickpanel fuse box.

still no spark, no fuel pump power.
this pin [o] on fuel pump harness plug is supposed to be the power:
[x][x][x] [o]
[x][x][x] [x]

ive turned the key on, which is supposed to close the relay and supply power to that pin. using a multimeter, i read no voltage between pin and body ground. i suspect harness....

BUT

voltage CAN be read from pin "a" on the ignition coil harness plug (only two pins), so i know powers going in.

but i noticed in the schematics that the flow of power goes back through the ecm intead of direct body ground.

no spark.

i suspect ecm or key cylinder to be problem.

does anyone know if there is a trick system that will cut ignition and fuel, ie. low oil pressure-->shutdown, or engine needs to be spinning at specific rpm before fuel pump can turn on..?

any NEW input would be greatly appreciated.

summary

no spark, no fuel pump whirring, no ecm led light up, no cel light up.

thank you

[drew935]

Once you turn the key on, the fuel pump is in a ready mode and on. Do youhear the relay for the pump click when you turn the key? Crank the engine and then check the #1 spark plug. Smell if there is fuel. Check for spark again by unplugging the #1 spark plug wire and grounding it with a screwdriver. You need to confirm these things. Also it died in the rain while you were driving or parked? Does it sound like it wants to start or does it just click on the starter?

[NismoSilvia270R]

no fuel no spark.

your sig lets me assume that you hav an fsm, so you might know that in EF&EC 104 and EF&EC 135 there are flow diagrams that runs through the spark and fuel systems. completed with little diagnostic results.

no spark, no fuel. wont run on ether.
no ecu led on.
no cel on.

sorry if i sound cocky, but i definitely done (and said that ive done) what youve mentioned above in previous posts.

i dont want to tear up harnesses, but..

[soon2bs13]

wow...this sounds exactly like my car...

except, its a civic...

my ecu ended up being fried, replaced that, replaced my buddy club battery for the stock one, and still no start. i think its my wiring harness which i will get a shop to look at. i hope u figure it out man..

[drew935]

Did you cofirm that there is power going to the ecu? Look at EF & EC-9. Fusible link from the batttery to the ECCS relay. It provides power to the ECU and injectors. 12v at the coil is good right? Looks like you need to get multimeter and a 12v test light already, if you want to diagnose it yourself.

[idlafie]

[QUOTE=NismoSilvia270R] cranks but wont start
fuel line after (brand new) filter only trickles fuel when cranking.
no spark from coil or ignition wires.

one damp morning it all just cut out. [QUOTE]

Check your grounding points on the wiring harness. You might want to consider cutting the old ones off & resoldering new ones on. Check the ground points in the engine bay, at the ecu & at the fuel pump relay. Also consider that the ECU lead to the fuel pump may have gone bad. I've seen this happen a few times before.

Anyhow, hope this helps...
ID

[NismoSilvia270R]

thanks for the inputs. i think ima check grounds nxt until i get to a jyard and grab an ecu

-thanks for all inputs thus far

[drkidd22]

I have same a similar problem, but for me everything else works but for the spark. I'm not getting any spark at all. What my coils do is get warm when the ignition key is turned to the ON position, don't know if this is normal, power goes into pin#2 and made sure it's grounded real good, unplI made double sure that the coil packs are grounded (re-grounded) to the bolt on back of the engine and that they have power, all wires (E) are going to their respective coils. Are the coilpacks supposed to get warm with the ignition switch in in the on position?

[NismoSilvia270R]

UPDATE

tested ecu plug pins.

WITH ECU NOT PLUGGED IN

1) the backup(constant) power pins have power when grounded to ground pins.

2) the ignition pin has power when key turned and grounded to ground pins.

3) NO POWER from "ECU power" pins. these are the two right below the ground pins, which are on the very top.

WITH ECU PLUGGED IN

1) NO CEL

2) Jumped ECCS relay pins and CEL CAME ON as well as the LED in the ECU.

3) Fuel Pump still not pumping


What i can conclude is that the ECU pin #4 (to ECCS Relay) is not grounding the relay and the fuel pump signal to pump relay is no good.

might be wiring, might be ecu

anyone know how the ecu works as far as startup/booting processes?

thanks
brad

[NismoSilvia270R]

bump for anyone that can help.

how is the eccs relay switch on?

schematics show it going to pin #4 which is a grounding function, i think.

what does the ecu need to ground this and switch the relay?

thanks in advance
Brad