whoa!? 280hp N/A KA24E???

[nevaland9]

sick car but im not sure if those horsepower numbers are belivable...correct me if im wrong.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1166767760/1166767760ss.htm

[Annoying Eric]

You are wrong, extremely... To start.. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE WITH ENOUGH MONEY.. The question is how reliable is it for daily driving...

www.paeco.com They build NA ka24e capable of 280+ plus hp but its not reliable cause it'll need rebuilds often.. Super high compression engine..

They make a very much streetable 230 hp NA engine.

[LB.Motoring]

ehh, I believe it.

just takes money, engineering, and time.

[shane_lxi]

They're running carbs too. Makes things a bit easier. 280hp is pretty crazy sounding though for n/a ka24e.

[TougeNinja]

holy shit even a 180hp NA kaE would be hilariously fun :P :P :P

[Annoying Eric]

They're running carbs too. Makes things a bit easier. 280hp is pretty crazy sounding though for n/a ka24e.



You havent tuned many carbs have you?? There not the most easiest, and most fun things to work on. ESPECIALLY on a race car. They need constant attention and tuning..

[GRIPPY]

And that is also on 112 octane race fuel too dont forget. This aint no daily driver.

[Eric240sx1990]

that is believable. Carbs or not. Takes alot of money and wrench/ dyno time to get it all correct. Especially with carbs. There is alot of tuning and adjusting to get all that stuff right.

Although it is on race fuel. I bet with pump gass 93 octane here you could get around 200-230 hp depending on setup. I think that it would be pretty easy to get around 200 na with just moderate tuning and good exhaust/intake. Changing the cam on the ka will give you lots a good hp up.

but ya with that 112 octane you cant drive that everyday unless you live whre you can get race fuel. and are rich lhehe

[20 til 3]

why are you guys talking bout daily driving? um its a RACE car....easily build up that much power..seriously think about the fact how in tune those cars are and how nice the setups are....pimp car, would love it

[nevaland9]

"KA24 engine (5 hrs1/2 life left)"
haha i guess there goes reliability, its like drivin a ticking time bomb


haha..carbs makin things easier, i wish. but in a sence you could say that (for me at least) its a hell of a lot easier to change jettings and turn a little screw and watch the AFR, than to sit on a lap top and play with fuel maps, timing, harneses & all that other good stuff. but then again ive never tried my only sad attempt at engine managment was a e-manage..


"The car can also run in GT2 with 48mm carb chokes at approximately 340hp and at a weight of 2080 lbs which the car can make."

That sounds a little crazy to me

[2_fast_240]

I predict if you put 93 octane in it you will get around 0 horsepower because it would blow the motor

[infinitexsound]

eh ive seen that car race.. its okay.. pretty fast... did okay at the runoffs..it seems like they've repainted it the last time i saw it...

actually efi makes alot more power. because u tune for per cylinder vs.. one exhaust outlet..
280 i believe shit even 310... big whoop!

[DriftSpecial180]

Ughh, i just drooled all over myself

[NemeGuero]

Wow.. they spent assloads of money for sub 300hp... cool..

*sarcastic on the "cool"

[chibo]

Wow.. they spent assloads of money for sub 300hp... cool..

*sarcastic on the "cool"
I don't mean to insult you but that's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard. It's a naturally aspirated engine making 117hp/l on carbs - that's pretty goddamn good. N/A has never been about cheap power (or hell, even power), it's been about throttle response - I'm sure thing thing has accomplished that goal.

[McRussellPants]

I don't mean to insult you but that's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard. It's a naturally aspirated engine making 117hp/l on carbs - that's pretty goddamn good. N/A has never been about cheap power (or hell, even power), it's been about throttle response - I'm sure thing thing has accomplished that goal.

Nah, its about being legal for busted balls SCCA E-Production.

shits been around since 1990.

Not breaking news

It was for poorasses in 1990, its for poorasses now.

[chmercer]

lol, they didnt pick to build an na ka24e because they wanted "throttle response".

[chibo]

lol, they didnt pick to build an na ka24e because they wanted "throttle response".
Nah, its about being legal for busted balls SCCA E-Production.

shits been around since 1990.

Not breaking news

It was for poorasses in 1990, its for poorasses now.
You both missed my direction, he was poking at that not being a lot of power for the money. I fully realize that it was built to compete in a class with specific requirements.

[90hatchie]

ive seen this car in person
its really fast
and sounds nice aswell

[longdy]

lol this is just to hard to believe... lol :tweak:

[nevaland9]

moral of this story...you can do anything if youve got the money...and if making 300 N/A hp from a KA24E makes you happy...then money buys you happiness too i guess

p.s yayy i started a thread that didnt end up with me gettin neg rep! im on the right track:)

[NemeGuero]

I don't mean to insult you but that's one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard. It's a naturally aspirated engine making 117hp/l on carbs - that's pretty goddamn good. N/A has never been about cheap power (or hell, even power), it's been about throttle response - I'm sure thing thing has accomplished that goal.


Don't worry, I'm not insulted.

And it still sucks. haha

[wootwoot]

I'm sure if they were allowed to turbo charge it or super charge it they sure as fuck would. 117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

[Kn1ves]

117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

what the hell are you talking about?

go find me an example

most cars are at 80hp/liter

[SimpleS14]

what the hell are you talking about?

go find me an example


Saturn Sky Redline is a close example.

[TurbLu]

I'm sure if they were allowed to turbo charge it or super charge it they sure as fuck would. 117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

LOL... the s2000 and type r (which arent even made anymore 2.0 s2k atleast) were only at like 108 hp p/l for the type r and 120 hp p/l for the ap1 s2k.

[zackt69]

+1 Especially a multiple carb setup... lots of headaches!

You havent tuned many carbs have you?? There not the most easiest, and most fun things to work on. ESPECIALLY on a race car. They need constant attention and tuning..

[Kn1ves]

Saturn Sky Redline is a close example.
that car doesnt count, its turbo (i think)
and it also doesnt represent MOST cars

2007 Honda Civic
140 HP from 1.8 L
77 hp/l

2007 Toyota Corolla
126 HP from 1.8L
70 hp/l

2007 Honda S2000
237 HP from 2.2L
107 hp/l

2007 Lexus IS350
306 HP from 3.5L
87 hp/l

2007 Infiniti G35
306 HP from 3.5L
87 hp/l

2007 BMW 3 Series (doesn't even count since its turbo, and still doesnt reach 117hp/l)
300 HP from 3.0L
100 hp/l

2001 Acura Integra Type R
195 HP from 1.8L
108 hp/l

2007 Toyota Camry
158 HP from 2.4L
66 hp/l

[NemeGuero]

Ok, stock vs built race cars. Hahaha

Its ok guys, this just doesn't impress everyone.

[Kn1ves]

Ok, stock vs built race cars. Hahaha

Its ok guys, this just doesn't impress everyone.

I put the list up there because wootwoot said this


117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

which is not true. F1 ftw anyway, highest output / liter engines.

[EchoOfSilence]

Ok, stock vs built race cars. Hahaha

Its ok guys, this just doesn't impress everyone.
I'm impressed.I think it'd be fun... like an NA bridgeport
Then again those lifespans are measured in hours, but hey those are pretty damn strict tunes and builds to be running NA power like that

reliability though... :-/

[wootwoot]

I diddnt say it had to be n/a when I was referring to that hp per liter rating as not being very impressive for a race motor. I also never stipulated that it was to involve cars like a damn Corolla. If we are talking about high performance motors why the hell would you bring up an econobox?

There are many motors that come in cars stock that are close and some better (and yes some are n/a!!). The original s2000 had the same amount of hp (237?) but it was only a 2.o liter. Many Ferrari's surpass that level, along with the higher end European BMW's.

That number for a race motor is quite pathetic. I know its the best they can do with what they are building on and it is impressive. But I could paint the Mona Lisa with my own shit and it would just be a piece of crap. Look at sport bikes now days, 170 hp per liter is common.

[NemeGuero]

I diddnt say it had to be n/a when I was referring to that hp per liter rating as not being very impressive for a race motor. I also never stipulated that it was to involve cars like a damn Corolla. If we are talking about high performance motors why the hell would you bring up an econobox?

There are many motors that come in cars stock that are close and some better (and yes some are n/a!!). The original s2000 had the same amount of hp (237?) but it was only a 2.o liter. Many Ferrari's surpass that level, along with the higher end European BMW's.

That number for a race motor is quite pathetic. I know its the best they can do with what they are building on and it is impressive. But I could paint the Mona Lisa with my own shit and it would just be a piece of crap. Look at sport bikes now days, 170 hp per liter is common.

+1.......................
this is why I wasn't impressed, nor amused, nor entertained, nor offended

[xplicit240]

thats a DE motor. its a 95. why would they use a single cam?

[SoSideways]

I wanna build a 11k rpm 4AG that will make like 220 to 230 whp.

That's close to 140hp/L :bigok:

[wootwoot]

and you'll spend 10 grand doing it! yay for Formula Atlantic motors!
You could do the same with the 2.3 MZR but make more like 280hp (they say 300 but its debated). Yay for motors that last no more then 5 thousand miles!

[McRussellPants]

SR16VE does 118HP/L
F20C does 120HP/L


KA that lasts 5 hours to make 300hp isn't cool.

[Kn1ves]

I diddnt say it had to be n/a when I was referring to that hp per liter rating as not being very impressive for a race motor. I also never stipulated that it was to involve cars like a damn Corolla. If we are talking about high performance motors why the hell would you bring up an econobox?

There are many motors that come in cars stock that are close and some better (and yes some are n/a!!). The original s2000 had the same amount of hp (237?) but it was only a 2.o liter. Many Ferrari's surpass that level, along with the higher end European BMW's.

That number for a race motor is quite pathetic. I know its the best they can do with what they are building on and it is impressive. But I could paint the Mona Lisa with my own shit and it would just be a piece of crap. Look at sport bikes now days, 170 hp per liter is common.

ha. you did infact involved the corolla when you said this


117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

of course those numbers wouldnt be impressive if it was turbo. turbo doesn't matter. nobody's drooling over the fact that you can get 400whp from a 2.0 SR. thats 200 HP/L but again, its compressed, not the same as having n/a car that doesnt have to deal with turbo lag.

Notice that in my list I included the years. Yes the s2k was able to achieve 120HP/L for 3 yeas when it had the 2.0 liter engine, not the current 2.2 liter it has now. Sorry you didn't know that.

And again Ferrari? Not 'most cars' as you claim.

BMW? M6 has 500 hp from a 5.0 V10 engine.. according to my calculations thats 100 hp/l

And regarding the bikes?

117bhp per liter is stock level nowdays for most cars.

Its more valid for me to talk about the corolla than bikes.

[Kn1ves]

Ferrari F430
4.3 L with 483bhp = 109 HP/L

Ferrari 599 GTB
6.0 L with 620bhp = 103 HP/L

Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
6.0 L with 540bhp = 90 HP/L

Enzo Ferrari
6.0 L with 651 HP = 108 HP/L

[SoSideways]

and you'll spend 10 grand doing it! yay for Formula Atlantic motors!
You could do the same with the 2.3 MZR but make more like 280hp (they say 300 but its debated). Yay for motors that last no more then 5 thousand miles!

2.3 MZR engine? What is that?

And why is the 11k rpm 4AG only going to last 5000 miles?

[Kn1ves]

SR16VE does 118HP/L
F20C does 120HP/L


KA that lasts 5 hours to make 300hp isn't cool.

heh, at the time that the sr16 was released, it had the highest specific output per liter of any engine until the s2k came along. i forgot what trumped the f20c in highest output per liter though

btw, i dont think the engine only last 5 hours. it only lists that they have a SPARE ka24 that probably only have 5 hours left in it.

[VROOOM]

horsepower per liter is only good on paper. drive a S2000 which is around 120hp/L and then drive a camaro that has 56hp/L and see which one is more fun.

[Kn1ves]

horsepower per liter is only good on paper. drive a S2000 which is around 120hp/L and then drive a camaro that has 56hp/L and see which one is more fun.

the s2000 of course. unless youre driving in a straight line :keke:

[VROOOM]

ever driven one??? they have no power till you get very high into the powerband. for street driving the S2K is boring. to get it to go you have to rev it to 8K and by then every cop in 5 miles can hear you.

[Kn1ves]

ever driven one??? they have no power till you get very high into the powerband. for street driving the S2K is boring. to get it to go you have to rev it to 8K and by then every cop in 5 miles can hear you.

in fact i have driven plenty, and what you've said is true for all hondas, you gotta rev the shit out of them. besides the sound of it singing at 8k rpm is probably the same when the v8 hauls ass, probably quieter

[SoSideways]

S2000 = quiet when compared to either an LT1 or LS1.

Well, LS1s are pretty quiet actually... unless someone put long tube headers and a full 3" catback exhaust on it, then it gets loud.

Anyway, anyone care to tell me why the 11k rpm 4AG will only last 5000 miles?

[VROOOM]

interesting fact. my stock 98 240 dynoed at 131 whp and 143 lb/ft tq. my old civic w/ a built(cams, ti valvetrain, mildly stroked) gsr put down 194 whp and 137ft/lb tq. the civic couldnt even get as much tq as my STOCK 240sx. does that sound fun???

[SoSideways]

Yeah but if you ask some of the engineers, they will tell you that HP will win races, not torque.

As long as your car has the gearing to perfectly match the HP output of the car, the car with more HP will win.

That's what they said, I dunno that from a "paper to real world" type situation, so I'm just pouring some more C16 into a bonfire.

[chibo]

interesting fact. my stock 98 240 dynoed at 131 whp and 143 lb/ft tq. my old civic w/ a built(cams, ti valvetrain, mildly stroked) gsr put down 194 whp and 137ft/lb tq. the civic couldnt even get as much tq as my STOCK 240sx. does that sound fun???
The M5 only makes ~325tq at the wheels and it will do 205mph, 0-60 in ~4.4, 1/4th in ~12.6. I'll tell you for a fact that torque isn't everything, gearing can make up for it. Again, it all comes down to personal preference - some people like high revving engines and some don't care for that.

[SoSideways]

The M5 only makes ~325tq at the wheels and it will do 205mph, 0-60 in ~4.4, 1/4th in ~12.6. I'll tell you for a fact that torque isn't everything, gearing can make up for it. Again, it all comes down to personal preference - some people like high revving engines and some don't care for that.

If you want to take that analogy up a notch, the F1 cars only make like 300 ft-lbs of torque, if that, and yet they make about 800hp.

You don't think the mere 300 ft-lbs of torque is what's bringing these cars up to 200 mph every lap on the front straight do you?

[nevaland9]

2.3 MZR engine? What is that?

And why is the 11k rpm 4AG only going to last 5000 miles?

a 4AG that revs to 11k will last for damn near forever if you take your time and built it properly, ive got a full race 71 corolla with 3SGE thats been reving to 11k for about 2 years, ask http://www.paradiseracing.com/ they built the head.

They say when the world comes to a end theres only going to be two things left..cockroaches & toyotas. (& nissans :duh: )
idk who said it or if thats how it rly goes but i gave it a try

the s2000 of course. unless youre driving in a straight line :keke:

agreed...and straiht lines get boring IMO

watch this guy for 13 seconds 10 consecutive times
:2f2f: ..."hold the slop box straight, hold the slop box straight anddd shift!"
no fun

[VROOOM]

ok i admit on a track where you can keep your car in the powerband a high revving motor is ideal. we are comparing stock cars that are mostly driven on the street. driving a S2K before it switches to vtec is like driving a civic EX, no fun. so basically what im saying is a a torquey car is more fun to drive on the street than a high revving car you can't ever rev out (on the street).

[nevaland9]

horsepower per liter is only good on paper. drive a S2000 which is around 120hp/L and then drive a camaro that has 56hp/L and see which one is more fun.

ive never driven a camaro..but ive driven a mustang cobra non S/C and ill admit power down low felt cool but it felt like power id never be able to use unless i was in a straight line the car it self felt so sloppy. ive driven a S2K as well and that car i feel is by far more fun to drive everyday(also not considering gas prices) sure power dosnt come in till 5k but its not hard to get it there and keep it there at all.

[SoSideways]

a 4AG that revs to 11k will last for damn near forever if you take your time and built it properly, ive got a full race 71 corolla with 3SGE thats been reving to 11k for about 2 years, ask http://www.paradiseracing.com/ they built the head.

They say when the world comes to a end theres only going to be two things left..cockroaches & toyotas. (& nissans :duh: )
idk who said it or if thats how it rly goes but i gave it a try


The whole bit about the cockroaches and Toyotas, it's pretty much true.

My friend and I found a page where they weighed parts of the 2JZ, and we came to the conclusion that it will survive a nuclear blast.

Anyway, the 11k rpm 4AG will be a project that I want to undertake with my fiance (well, she'll be my wife before we get to start building it).

However, last night, the entire night we argued over which engine/chassis to build on, and we talked about Honda engines and 4AGs and others. I never knew the 3S-GE could rev that high as well.

With that in mind, that just opened up a lot more doors for the chassis/engine choices! Altezza with a 230hp 11k 3S-GE would be pretty cool :bigok:

[VROOOM]

toyotas amaze me. one of the shop cars where i work is an 86 toyota truck that thing has 535K miles on it and only thing done to the engine was a new head gasket. still the stock tranny, never rebuilt and stock motor, never rebuilt.

[chibo]

toyotas amaze me. one of the shop cars where i work is an 86 toyota truck that thing has 535K miles on it and only thing done to the engine was a new head gasket. still the stock tranny, never rebuilt and stock motor, never rebuilt.
Hahahaha, have you ever seen the topgear where they try to destroy one?
Part One: http://youtube.com/watch?v=fQltQ6Qzdb4
Part Two: http://youtube.com/watch?v=u5ZtntPoaVQ

They're complete beasts, my friend has one that is offroaded very hard, to the point that it's basically just an exo'd piece of shit... that thing is unkillable.

[VROOOM]

That video is crazy, they sink it, burn it, drop a trailer on it and it still works.

[nevaland9]

The whole bit about the cockroaches and Toyotas, it's pretty much true.

My friend and I found a page where they weighed parts of the 2JZ, and we came to the conclusion that it will survive a nuclear blast.

Anyway, the 11k rpm 4AG will be a project that I want to undertake with my fiance (well, she'll be my wife before we get to start building it).

However, last night, the entire night we argued over which engine/chassis to build on, and we talked about Honda engines and 4AGs and others. I never knew the 3S-GE could rev that high as well.

With that in mind, that just opened up a lot more doors for the chassis/engine choices! Altezza with a 230hp 11k 3S-GE would be pretty cool :bigok:

its actually alot easier to make alot of power out of a 3SGE than a 4AG

motor has brass valve guides, stainless steel vavles, titanium retainers, port/polish head, hks cam gears, 48 side draft webbers, race cames like 4XX and high 3XX i forget now, knife edge crank ATI harmonic balancer..blah blah blah the cars for sale right now actually full race est. 300whp the motor is in a full caged 71 mango ive got pics ill start a new post

ive got a brank new intake for a 2nd gen 3SGE to run webbers if your interested.

[SoSideways]

^^ I'll PM you.

Now let's get back to the high powered NA KA-E!

[wootwoot]

I was referring to the 5000 miles as a Toyota Atlantic motor as that is where most of their development came from. They generally do rebuilds every 5000 miles. MZR 2.3 is the new motor for the Atlantic series as Mazda is the new sponsor. Same motor that comes in the 3 and 6

[EchoOfSilence]

thats a DE motor. its a 95. why would they use a single cam?
because they've been building them for a much longer time. they actually don't really build the de's

[~4N~]

It's easier and more reliable to build a fast NA KA24E than it is to build an NA KA24DE. I don't really know why it works that way, I haven't looked much into it, but I've seen a few NA KA's in the 250-280 hp range on the internet, and all of them have been SOHC's.

[SoSideways]

It's because the DE's head doesn't allow for much headwork, as the ports don't have much metal to port out, whereas the SOHC ports can be ported out to monster sizes.

[allmotorKA]

Its easier to get higher valve lift with the SOHC (rocker arm) vs the DOHC (shim over bucket).

[Sean1978]

It's easier and more reliable to build a fast NA KA24E than it is to build an NA KA24DE. I don't really know why it works that way, I haven't looked much into it, but I've seen a few NA KA's in the 250-280 hp range on the internet, and all of them have been SOHC's.


I'd say it's 2 things, that race class that only allows SOHC KA's (I forgot what it's called) with carbs means that race teams spend lots of money to make the power they need out of that engine. I don't think the KA24DE has had it's own race class

the other thing is that some people make that frankenstien engine out of the SOHC KA head and that old datsun block (I forgot what it's called also)

I think the key to making a streetable 200HP NA/KA would be a custom crankshaft. Maybe someone will put them on the market someday. All of the bad ass NA/KA's I have seen have had custom crankshafts that aren't widley sold or are custom made..

[chibo]

FJ20?
-------messageeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[EchoOfSilence]

FJ20?
-------messageeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
what about it?

[chibo]

what about it?
the other thing is that some people make that frankenstien engine out of the SOHC KA head and that old datsun block (I forgot what it's called also)

That's what I was directing that towards.