Legaly Pass SMOG with sr20 and ka-t?

[projekt_s13]

I was reading over on ka-t.org and apperently there is a loop hole in the cali smog.


How to: LEGALLY SMOG KA-t, SR20DET & RB26 SWAPS:

The best way to smog your ride is the legal way! We legally pass the vehicles using CNG/LPG/propane gas. The vehicles are slightly modified and passed on propane, and then, upon the owners discretion, changed back to regular pump gasoline, there are no permanent modifications done to the vehicle, the turnaround is about 4-6 hours.

We will gladly explain the conversion process to anyone who would like to convert their own vehicles, please feel free to email us at: [email protected] (took email out cuz im not advertising for him) with any questions. Any engine swap can be legally smogged and registered. Turboed, supercharged, high compression JDM motors, KA-t's, SR20's, RB26's, any engine in any car.


Won't pass the visual inspection though, as soon as they pop the hood and see whats under there, you fail.


Try again...... the ONLY way to smog your ride is the legal way! We legally pass these vehicles using CNG/LPG/propane gas.

AFV, CNG, LPG, propane and flex-fueled vehicles are scrutinized differently. These vehicles are emissions tested at the BAR referee, keep in mind that AFV's are not mandated the same as gasoline powered vehicles. Visual inspection is waived for most AFV's because they are experimental.


AFV (Alternative Fueled Vehicle)
CNG (Compressed Natural Gas)
LPG (Liquified Propane Gas)
On SMOG exemption: As long as there is a propane tank hooked up on the vehicle, the setup is considered a flex-fueled vehicle, when properly done, this process is 100% legal, however, if the tank or any of the accessories are removed by the owner, then, by definition, the vehicle will no longer be considered an alternative fuel vehicle. Smog exemption is only used when the biennial smog is due.

The next exemption is called CARB exemption, CARB exemption keeps the cops from popping your hood and giving you ref tickets. An RB26 powered Silvia that is smog & carb exempted can run around town all day with an open exhaust, atmospheric BOV, NOS and absolutely no emissions equipment, and NEVER get a referee ticket! Carb exemption exempts the vehicle from ALL CARB mandates, regulations and protocols.

Mack, we have hooked up many McKinney Motorsports clients with emissions issues and referee tickets, the burden of responsibility does not lie on us, but, on the initial shop that is modifying the emissions equipment in the first place. We have done tons of business with McKinney in the past, and a simple misunderstanding like this can sour a relatively great business relationship.

By sharing our knowledge and expertise, we are directly assisting the JDM engine swap shops with their emissions issues and referee tickets... we do not profit from swapping JDM engines, and removing their emissions equipment, we deal with the legal issues and consequences of illegal JDM engine swaps.

What do you guys think about this?

[mistaanime]

yea i've herd about it..and was thinking of doing the same thing.. it get you away from having your car impounded..but you still will have the issues of getting pulled of one way or another.

[MURPHY]

this guys on honda tech and many other boards and tons of people have used him and seem to praise him. theres someone selling an ae86 that the owner did this too (for sale on zilvia)

[blackflag_Rms13]

The way that dude conducts himself makes him seem shady and/or not legit. But yeah, I'll be considering it in 2 years when I need to get smogged...

[!Zar!]

Blah, blah, blah.

No 2yr smog, but you still can be sent to the state ref.

[Jung918]

I talked to him over the phone. It's more like a 2 step process. One if for the smog issue (registered as an alternate fuel vehicle). The other step is to have dual registration (one in cali and one in nevada). So if you only do the first part, that will only mean that you wont have to smog it. You can still get sent to the state ref if you don't complete the second part.

[drift freaq]

I talked to him over the phone. It's more like a 2 step process. One if for the smog issue (registered as an alternate fuel vehicle). The other step is to have dual registration (one in cali and one in nevada). So if you only do the first part, that will only mean that you wont have to smog it. You can still get sent to the state ref if you don't complete the second part.
I do not think the state of California allows dual registration. Go to the DMV website and read up on registration. Plus if that loophole exists it won't for long. This reminds of what business's were doing back in the early 90's incorporating in the state of Nevada to avoid certain California tax laws. Its was technically not legal to do it to begin with but companies got away with it. Eventually the state caught up with all these guys and started enforcing the law. I am an optimistic person but this is very similiar , don't expect it to last.
Plus the way this guy has advertised his business in a very shady way, makes me believe he knows he is technically skirting the law. I.E. this shit will not hold up if you get caught and sent to the ref or court. Unless you have a lot of money to spend on a lawyer to prove its legal.
Its also like those guys that tell people and do seminars about not having to pay tax's i.e. sounds great but is not really legal, even though they tell you it is.

[UfoZ8myCow]

Its illegal to have a car that is registered in NV and live in CA. Not only will they ticket your car and send you to the ref, theyll give you an additional ticket for that.

Even if you registered your car in NV and went and got a NV driver's license, you still couldnt use it here. You technically only have 60 days once you move to CA to move everything over to be registered here. Ive gone through all this shit before trying to register my car/address at my family's condo in Vegas. Didnt work.

If ever there was a loophole, its closing very very fast. Besides, ref people arent complete idiots. They can see whether or not your car really is an "experimental vehicle" or just some kid trying to get around smog with his illegal engine.

Your best bet if youre in CA is to just try and find a smog hookup and hope you dont get pulled over.

[kaotic]

god I love not living in CA...

[usdm180sx]

I talked to someone over there about the exemption:

On SMOG exemption: As long as there is a propane tank hooked up on the vehicle, the setup is considered a flex-fueled vehicle, when properly done, this process is 100% legal, however, if the tank or any of the accessories are removed by the owner, then, by definition, the vehicle will no longer be considered an alternative fuel vehicle. Smog exemption is only used when the biennial smog is due.

In terms of the Matrix, this exemption doesn't "enable you to dodge bullets," it enables you to "not to have to."

When I spoke with the guy he kept saying that they're not responsible for stupid things that people do (street racing, drifting, wreckless driving, exhibitions of speed, etc.) but if you get sent to the ref all you have to do is show an AFV certificate (that they give you) and that the propane bottle and all other requisite hardware is intact and you should be good to go.

[zackt69]

I had the smog exemption done... he did seem a little shady at first, but I talked to him a few times and he got it done! He didn't charge me until everything was finished and I called the DMV to make sure the car had passed and was now smog exempted. Got all my paperwork, tags, etc from the DMV - so I'm good to go!

[Jung918]

Anyone else have this done? I'm just talking about the alternative vehicle stuff.

If you did have vegas plates the cops would never know you where here for over 60 days. I always thought it was 10. You could say your visiting family.

[theicecreamdan]

its only legit if you get the propane kit certified by the ref, and its only legal if you keep the propane. If you take it all out and go back to super cool sr20 and get pulled over. ur fucked

[irax]

if your cought in CA with a NV plate but with a CA drivers license more than once, your fucked

how come no one reads up on DMV shit?

[theicecreamdan]

not all that fucked, I drove around with Idaho plates for over a year.

its a small ticket.

[cmcdougle]

just leave the tank in, and disconnect it up at the engine, or halfway or something, and turn the tank off, so it still looks connected. Driving around with a propane tank is better than getting reffed.

[sean350z]

I wouldn't want to drive around with a propane tank in my car. I'd imagine that'd be somewhat dangerous. My S15 SR20 just passed emissions over here in PA with a high flow cat. I would stick with trying to register it in another state before I would ever put propane in my car let alone in my engine...but if it works for you cali guys go for it.

[usdm180sx]

I wouldn't want to drive around with a propane tank in my car. I'd imagine that'd be somewhat dangerous. My S15 SR20 just passed emissions over here in PA with a high flow cat. I would stick with trying to register it in another state before I would ever put propane in my car let alone in my engine...but if it works for you cali guys go for it.

Nobody said that the tank has to be full so it's not really dangerous. It's necessary to keep the propane tank in the car to prove that the car can run on alternative fuel to keep the exemption status.

Then again you live in PA so you're lucky because this doesn't really apply to you.

[vvtisupra]

you know after posting these loop holes all across public forums eventually police and government officials will find this and change shit up, just like they supposedly did with modified emissions tickets.

[HyperTek]

so is everyone here speaking with a "he said she said" thought, or personal experience with this matter?

I got my 2nd ref ticket riding now, court in jan. My first one in early 2006 i was able to pay like $700 for it.. just becuase some cop randomly pulled my car over to check my car out becuase I had been driving late at night with a few other cars. This 2nd one is my fault becuase i was speeding.

have fun tryin to sell that out of state car in california, dmv looks at the car when you try to register a out of state car back in cali, but im not sure if they just make sure the VINs match etc..

me and thesquidd where talking about how out here, smog equipment violation tickets fine cost way more then speeding, running red lights, etc. Its soo stupid.

Best bet is for all of us to fight hte system!!! chyaa!!

[trsilvias13]

Some guys here do not think. You know you can leave an empty propane tank in your car right? How would a cop know that is full or not?

But then some cops are stupid and probably thing you are running nos. Then instant ref ticket.

[HyperTek]

i wonder, if they ambolished the visual inspections, and just required to actually pass smog emission standards, that possibly there would be alot more registered cars on the road. Where people wouldnt be driving unregistered vehicles out there. I know of a few peopel who dont drive legally becuase they cant afford to correct thier smog problems.. its sad but people are forced to, esp with back registration costs etc..

[HyperTek]

Some guys here do not think. You know you can leave an empty propane tank in your car right? How would a cop know that is full or not?

But then some cops are stupid and probably thing you are running nos. Then instant ref ticket.

haha cop saw my fat red stereo wire *used for relocated battery* running to the firewall and was like "Is that Nos?"

[McRussellPants]

SR20s will pass Texas Smog without a cat.



KAs usually have to try 3-4 times though.

[HyperTek]

we should be able to somehow bring this to the attention of the goverment and vote this out.. i mean thats how bills are passed etc.. cant we do something!?!?! hahah

[20 til 3]

start a pention...they did that in texas and got rid of the front license plate

[irax]

start a pention...they did that in texas and got rid of the front license plate
It wont work like that here.

[usdm180sx]

Some guys here do not think. You know you can leave an empty propane tank in your car right? How would a cop know that is full or not?

But then some cops are stupid and probably thing you are running nos. Then instant ref ticket.

That's when you show the ref the propane tank, certificate, fire up the car on alternative fuel and he signs off on the ref ticket.

[Flybert]

So what does he charge to convert to propane?

[Jung918]

I believe it is $400.

[usdm180sx]

So what does he charge to convert to propane?

IIRC around $450

[altimas]

It wont work like that here.
Also, it never did get passed into law. So close, yet so far~:-/

[HKsilvia]

sry for revealing this post, just pass by when searching something else... is this hybrid convertion still valid? anyone got their email? i try to search in kat.org but seems they have removed this topic from their site...
thx

[PRADOgy]

we should be able to somehow bring this to the attention of the goverment and vote this out.. i mean thats how bills are passed etc.. cant we do something!?!?! hahah
:hug: lets get this started

[PRADOgy]

i HATE cali smog, i know its for a reason but what should matter is the sniffer, thats all that should matter, anywho i heard about this, didnt think u had to change back and forth, out of state reg is best no doubt. just dont be a retard and show a cali DL when showing reg from AZ

[Nikeboy355]

Does E85 qualify as an alternate fuel that is exempt from CA smog?

[delphis]

I drove around in my previous car for 3 years in cali with an az plate and never got hassled once about it. My suggestion is to either do the propane thing and have an empty tank in the car or have it easily installable to go to the ref or you could register the vehicle in someone elses name out of state, and if you get pulled over you tell them it's your mom or sisters car and that you are borrowing it and as long as you have insurance on it you are good to go but the only catch is you have to have a trust worthy relative that lives out of state. :)

[delphis]

I believe it is $400.
can anyone verify this amount because I don't want to pay 300 just for a single smog, I would rather save up an extra hundred and have this done.

[street240]

:hug: lets get this started

You can get it started. Start with your local rep and tel him what you want to do. He will guide you and tell you what kind of support you will need...:rawk:

[Dream240]

C'mon guys, this stupid crap has been dry humped more times than Anna Nicole's dead body.

The reason it's no longer on their website is cause it's not legit. Cops aren't dumb, I guarantee most of the guys that tried this route have been busted and fined....heavily.

I also love how with each new post you guys just keep asking more questions, and noone seems to have any answers.

Just drive your SR powered car and take it up the ass when you get pulled over..... you know you love all the po-po attention anyways.

[DJ_Sunrise]

i said it once, ill say it again. i love not living in Cali. Ive been pulled over several times in NJ, cops always stare at my sticker.. not legit, obviously.. no problems.. yet.. knock on wood. no "pop your hood shit", nothing. inspection is coming up this december tho.. wish me luck :)

-Bart

[fliprayzin240sx]

i HATE cali smog, i know its for a reason but what should matter is the sniffer, thats all that should matter, anywho i heard about this, didnt think u had to change back and forth, out of state reg is best no doubt. just dont be a retard and show a cali DL when showing reg from AZ

You can say your a resident of AZ and that your in cali for school. You changed your DL to CA cuz they were being bitches at the liquor store when you were trying to cash some checks...;)

Or show them a military ID...:rawk:

[gotta240]

I PERSONALLY WENT TO THE SAN DIEGO REF station and spoke with the ref himself.

He said, "the propane kit does not make a car exempt from smog. Infact it is just like ANY OTHER MOD and must have a carb. sticker, and is still smogged like a regular vehicle"

WHAT THE F... how did they get around that? i doubt the ref is lying to me as he was cool as hell.

[dgafs13]

I PERSONALLY WENT TO THE SAN DIEGO REF station and spoke with the ref himself.

He said, "the propane kit does not make a car exempt from smog. Infact it is just like ANY OTHER MOD and must have a carb. sticker, and is still smogged like a regular vehicle"

WHAT THE F... how did they get around that? i doubt the ref is lying to me as he was cool as hell.



true, i spoke with the ref in my area about the same thing, he said you will still have a bi-ennial inspection, and when i asked that guy about the NPG conversion he really didnt seem to inclined to answer my questions.

[Jon Michael]

I love living in MN...no smog, no emissions...no nothing. Cops don't care what you do to your car as long as you aren't some dumb ricer-teen that revs everywhere.

Edit: To whoever left me neg rep...yeah, it is useful information. I'm telling you about options, like another state that isn't ass backwards with so many stupid car laws, that you can't drive down the street without getting pulled over and having your hood popped. You know the last time I got my hood popped? NEVER, cops CAN'T ask you to pop your hood here. What would they be looking for? NOTHING's illegal, unless you're hiding drugs in there. Cops don't even care if you have a cat or not here.

My advice, want an easier way to deal with emissions? Move to another state instead of the WORST state in the universe for car modders. If you're going to live in Cali, live with all the problems that go with it. It's not like someone hid the state's laws from you and tricked you into living there.

[drift freaq]

I love living in MN...no smog, no emissions...no nothing. Cops don't care what you do to your car as long as you aren't some dumb ricer-teen that revs everywhere.

Edit: To whoever left me neg rep...yeah, it is useful information. I'm telling you about options, like another state that isn't ass backwards with so many stupid car laws, that you can't drive down the street without getting pulled over and having your hood popped. You know the last time I got my hood popped? NEVER, cops CAN'T ask you to pop your hood here. What would they be looking for? NOTHING's illegal, unless you're hiding drugs in there. Cops don't even care if you have a cat or not here.

My advice, want an easier way to deal with emissions? Move to another state instead of the WORST state in the universe for car modders. If you're going to live in Cali, live with all the problems that go with it. It's not like someone hid the state's laws from you and tricked you into living there.
you know what you need to stop being so ignorant.
1. California smog laws are in place for a reason.

2. you out of state fucks that want to say screw it, I am just going to pollute because we don't have smog laws, are the worst. Its because of you guys George Bush did not sign the Kyoto agreement. You just mimick the setiments of your elders who voted for him.
3. If a cop pulls you over in any state and they want to be asses they can make you pop your hood. All they need is reasonable cause and believe me cops are good at finding reasonable cause.
4. Using the Texas style arguement that cars only contribute 3% to greenhouse gases as a reason for not doing something is a cop out.

Now if you have never been to California or lived here I suggest you shut the fuck up. You don't even realize the benifits you miss living in the frozen tundra in winter time called Minnesota.

oh ya and mods please lock this useless thread.

[S14DB]

you know what you need to stop being so ignorant.
1. California smog laws are in place for a reason.

2. you out of state fucks that want to say screw it, I am just going to pollute because we don't have smog laws, are the worst. Its because of you guys George Bush did not sign the Kyoto agreement. You just mimick the setiments of your elders who voted for him.
3. If a cop pulls you over in any state and they want to be asses they can make you pop your hood. All they need is reasonable cause and believe me cops are good at finding reasonable cause.
4. Using the Texas style arguement that cars only contribute 3% to greenhouse gases as a reason for not doing something is a cop out.

Now if you have never been to California or lived here I suggest you shut the fuck up. You don't even realize the benifits you miss living in the frozen tundra in winter time called Minnesota.

oh ya and mods please lock this useless thread.

So, it was because of cars that he didn't sign the Kyoto agreement? Or was it the factories that states like cali take payoffs(fines) from and don't crack down on. Then blame the cars for the problem. Even though LEV vehicles put out cleaner emissions than the air in cali and have to be tested in controlled climate labs to read the emissions for carb product testing.

Florida had a test program in major cities. They then compared money spent on that project and the money spent on factory inspections. Then compared the emissions reduced per dollar. Emissions reduced per dollar was 10x that of cars.

99% of people will not modify their cars emission systems and they will be clean. Shown by the people in cali with SR's. People that do will go a long way to circumvent any enforcement procedure out there.

CARB is just a big bureaucracy paid off by major companies. They throw a lot of political spin to keep it off the real issues.

[ChicagoS14]

So, it was because of cars that he didn't sign the Kyoto agreement? Or was it the factories that states like cali take payoffs(fines) from and don't crack down on. Then blame the cars for the problem. Even though LEV vehicles put out cleaner emissions than the air in cali and have to be tested in controlled climate labs to read the emissions for carb product testing.

Florida had a test program in major cities. They then compared money spent on that project and the money spent on factory inspections. Then compared the emissions reduced per dollar. Emissions reduced per dollar was 10x that of cars.

99% of people will not modify their cars emission systems and they will be clean. Shown by the people in cali with SR's. People that do will go a long way to circumvent any enforcement procedure out there.

CARB is just a big bureaucracy paid off by major companies. They throw a lot of political spin to keep it off the real issues.

+10000

Its a fact, cars contribute a smaller amount to greenhouse or any other sort of pollutants then Factories, Trains, heavy duty machinery, not to mention strip mines that kill miles around them for years to come. Cows produce tons of green house gasses, its just easier to attack the little guy with a car. Plus our turbo cars running high octane fuel are much cleaner then those big Hummers and w/e else running around on low octane fuel. And the funniest thing is that hybrids pollute more then our cars due to the fact that the process by which they get their batteries is a highly polluting one:
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Greenhouse_Gas_by_Sector.png

Notice power stations in this particular diagram contribute to 21.3%, so if we only went to solar, wind, and other resources for energy we would not only gain tons of renewable energy we would also reduce 21% of green house gasses thats 1/5 of all gasses.

[Jon Michael]

you know what you need to stop being so ignorant.
1. California smog laws are in place for a reason.

2. you out of state fucks that want to say screw it, I am just going to pollute because we don't have smog laws, are the worst. Its because of you guys George Bush did not sign the Kyoto agreement. You just mimick the setiments of your elders who voted for him.
3. If a cop pulls you over in any state and they want to be asses they can make you pop your hood. All they need is reasonable cause and believe me cops are good at finding reasonable cause.
4. Using the Texas style arguement that cars only contribute 3% to greenhouse gases as a reason for not doing something is a cop out.

Now if you have never been to California or lived here I suggest you shut the fuck up. You don't even realize the benifits you miss living in the frozen tundra in winter time called Minnesota.

oh ya and mods please lock this useless thread.

Factories contribute FAR more air pollution than all the cars in the world. In Gordon Brown's report he also stated that if America or any country were to meet their goals and cut their emissions by 5% within the next years that China would not only fill that 5%, but it would also add around 6% MORE pollution with it's industrial growth. In his interviews he also gave even more facts on how places like China, with growing industries, need to realize this more than others.

I'm sorry I just walk, carpool, take the bus, or not drive except when I really need to. In the last month (at least) I have only driven ONCE, I spent about a half hour driving around that day. I can GUARANTEE I am FAR more environmental friendly than pieces of shit, like you, that bitch at everyone else about these problems all day long. Last time I checked, MN also doesn't have as fucked up atmosphere as Cali. I have been to Cali, the air made me choke in some spots. MN's air is 10x cleaner than you're entire state. There's a reason we don't need emissions laws, because we don't fuck the air up like your state.

You have the stupidest laws ever, an engine can pass emissions and be cleaner than any other engine. But, if it isn't "stock" it's still illegal...that makes a LOT of sense. What's the purpose of the visual test anyways, I don't see what good looking at an engine will do, unless you can see the smog rising off of it. SR's pass emissions easier than the stock KA's anyways, so they are still illegal...where's the logic in that? You have cops that will pull you over and measure your height, look over your engine bay, and crawl under your car...and then tow your car. IMO that's a LOT of wasted police hours, and state funds. Cali has enough real crime to worry about, other than hassling some guy with an SR driving to the grocery store for milk.

If you've never been to MN YOU need to shut the fuck up. Did you know it snowed here in January and lasted till March this past winter...3 months WOW. So bad, my friends on the east coast had a harsher winter than we did this year. I don't even think it got that cold this year. Last time I was at Cali it was 60's and people were wearing coats and turtle necks saying it was cold...you guys are just pussies. I wore shorts and a t-shirt when it was in the high 40's.

You guys in Cali need to shut the fuck up about EVERYTHING. You chose the bed you're in, now lay in it instead of trying to find ways to illegally drive your cars and cheat the government. If you don't like it, MOVE. It's as simple as that. Why don't you actually read up on all the environmental issues you preach about, instead of just shouting out all the same crap your hippie friends tell you.

Oh yeah, neither me or my family voted for Bush...you lose.

Edit: I agree, lock this.

[drift freaq]

Factories contribute FAR more air pollution than all the cars in the world. In Gordon Brown's report he also stated that if America or any country were to meet their goals and cut their emissions by 5% within the next years that China would not only fill that 5%, but it would also add around 6% MORE pollution with it's industrial growth. In his interviews he also gave even more facts on how places like China, with growing industries, need to realize this more than others.

I'm sorry I just walk, carpool, take the bus, or not drive except when I really need to. In the last month (at least) I have only driven ONCE, I spent about a half hour driving around that day. I can GUARANTEE I am FAR more environmental friendly than pieces of shit, like you, that bitch at everyone else about these problems all day long. Last time I checked, MN also doesn't have as fucked up atmosphere as Cali. I have been to Cali, the air made me choke in some spots. MN's air is 10x cleaner than you're entire state. There's a reason we don't need emissions laws, because we don't fuck the air up like your state.

You have the stupidest laws ever, an engine can pass emissions and be cleaner than any other engine. But, if it isn't "stock" it's still illegal...that makes a LOT of sense. What's the purpose of the visual test anyways, I don't see what good looking at an engine will do, unless you can see the smog rising off of it. SR's pass emissions easier than the stock KA's anyways, so they are still illegal...where's the logic in that? You have cops that will pull you over and measure your height, look over your engine bay, and crawl under your car...and then tow your car. IMO that's a LOT of wasted police hours, and state funds. Cali has enough real crime to worry about, other than hassling some guy with an SR driving to the grocery store for milk.

If you've never been to MN YOU need to shut the fuck up. Did you know it snowed here in January and lasted till March this past winter...3 months WOW. So bad, my friends on the east coast had a harsher winter than we did this year. I don't even think it got that cold this year. Last time I was at Cali it was 60's and people were wearing coats and turtle necks saying it was cold...you guys are just pussies. I wore shorts and a t-shirt when it was in the high 40's.

You guys in Cali need to shut the fuck up about EVERYTHING. You chose the bed you're in, now lay in it instead of trying to find ways to illegally drive your cars and cheat the government. If you don't like it, MOVE. It's as simple as that. Why don't you actually read up on all the environmental issues you preach about, instead of just shouting out all the same crap your hippie friends tell you.

Oh yeah, neither me or my family voted for Bush...you lose.

Edit: I agree, lock this.

you know what, you just proved how dumb and ignorant you are. Hide your head in sand. Fact is America has to set an example to the world! You know you why you ignorant sack? We are the worlds leading superpower and we like to play the worlds policeman(unfortunately). Given all of that if we expect other countries in the world to cut down on pollution we have to set an example. Not in one area, in all area's that includes cars. Oh ya and before you go assuming who the fuck I am dumb ass get a life. I fuckng hate hippies.I
have been to Minnesota you ignorant sack and sorry its boring and nothing is happening there. If it was not for Silicon Valley the United States would not be leading the World in Technology. Oh and by the way don't even start to go there because you do not know who the fuck I am.
Granted we have a few imperfect laws, but you know what overall this state fucking rocks.Its the 6 largest economy in the damn world!! You don 't even know how enviromently friendly I am you just really good at making an ass out of yourself by ASSuming shit about me.
Now shut your dumb ass newb mouth up and read and learn.

Oh by the way you dumb ass out of state haters need to learn more about the emissions trading program before you go spouting your bullshit. Yes that goes for you AJ. If you read up on the program it actually works by promoting companies to go green to earn credits.

[drift freaq]

So, it was because of cars that he didn't sign the Kyoto agreement? Or was it the factories that states like cali take payoffs(fines) from and don't crack down on. Then blame the cars for the problem. Even though LEV vehicles put out cleaner emissions than the air in cali and have to be tested in controlled climate labs to read the emissions for carb product testing.

Florida had a test program in major cities. They then compared money spent on that project and the money spent on factory inspections. Then compared the emissions reduced per dollar. Emissions reduced per dollar was 10x that of cars.

99% of people will not modify their cars emission systems and they will be clean. Shown by the people in cali with SR's. People that do will go a long way to circumvent any enforcement procedure out there.

CARB is just a big bureaucracy paid off by major companies. They throw a lot of political spin to keep it off the real issues.

No AJ it was because of states like Texas and Florida among others that lobbied heavily and Bushs stupid idea that since he assumed China and other developing Nations would not adhere to it , he should not sign. Well if you read what I posted above you might be a better idea about the role our country has to play in all of this. I live in my state I follow the politics and I have seen the results of CARB and there have been a lot of positve. Its not perfect but its helped a lot . P.S. your ignorance is showing here because you don't read up on the efforts to cut diesel particulate emissions from ports, ships and trucks thats going on right now. YOU out of state of fucks just need to take care of your own states and shut the fuck up.

[ThatGuy]

I know one thing that will definitely not solve America's Pollution Problems...

Arguing on the internet!

This is over.
:lockd: :lockd: